something positive.... ??

[patmoran2006]

Here's something positive (and different)<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
* I think that without question, Lee Evans is one of the top five WR in the NFL at this point.<o:p></o:p>
* JP Losman played like a Pro Bowler after the bye-last season. He threw for 11TD's and only 2 INT's in the Bills 7 wins, proving he was a large part of them. His rating was 108.0 in those wins. He was impressive within the division, tossing 7 TD’s to only 2 INT’s, and a 99.4 rating.
* Derrick Dockery was a good signing, worth the money in my opinion.
* We spent our first five picks last year on defense, so there is plenty of young talent there.
* Jauron has proved himself to be a player’s coach and the team seems to play real hard for him.
* Levy isn’t a rookie GM anymore.
* The nucleus of the coaching staff has been intact for over a year now.
<o:p> </o:p>
I bring this up for a reason; and people who know me knew this was coming.
<o:p> </o:p>
2006
<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Baltimore</st1:place></st1:City> makes the playoffs at 13-3 after going 6-10 the year before… The Jets go 10-6 and make the playoffs after going 4-12 the year before. Philly goes 10-6 and makes the playoffs after going 6-10 the year before.. The Saints go 10-6 and make the playoffs after going just 3-13 the year before.
<o:p> </o:p>
2005
<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Chicago</st1:place></st1:City> makes the playoffs at 11-5 after being 5-11 the year before… <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Carolina</st1:place></st1:City> goes 11-5 and makes the NFC Championship game after being 7-9 the year before… The Giants win their division at 11-5 after being 6-10 the year before…. <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Tampa</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Bay</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> goes 11-5 and makes the playoffs after being 5-11 the year before.
<o:p> </o:p>
2004
<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">San Diego</st1:place></st1:City> remarkably goes 12-4 after being 4-12 the year before.. <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Atlanta</st1:place></st1:City> goes 110-5 after being 5-11 the year before.
<o:p> </o:p>
The Point: “Rebuilding” is a bull**** term that gets thrown around too much. In this era of football, it doesn’t take years of strictly good drafting to become a playoff team.
<o:p> </o:p>
For seven years running now, the Bills have been “rebuilding.” They are one of only three teams in the entire National Football League that has not made the playoffs this decade (<st1:City w:st="on">Houston</st1:City> and <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Arizona</st1:place></st1:State>) are the other two. Even the lowly Cleveland Browns and Miami Dolphins have made the playoffs since.
<o:p> </o:p>
As everything at the top illustrates; there are NO more excuses to accept mediocrity. We entered FA third in cap room and we spent some good money on our biggest weakeness for years (OL). WE got our full coaching staff back, a GM who’s no rookie anymore, a ton of highly thought of young players, emerging studs in Losman and Evans; not to mention very good draft position this year as well as an extra first day pick.
<o:p> </o:p>
7-9, 8-8, 9-7. Horsecrap. I just showed you how many other teams, some of them a hell of a lot worse than we were last year, make the playoffs just like that...
<o:p> </o:p>
I don’t hope the Bills become a legit playoff contender. I EXPECT them to be one.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Are you bi polar?

[justasportsfan]

Rah! Rah ! Rah!


Whaddaya think OP?

[OpIv37]

no, that wasn't me.

I do have to say this, though, Pat- you've been very critical of this team's moves (and I agree with a lot of what you've said), but you still expect them to compete. I don't understand how you came to that conclusion.

[patmoran2006]

IM critical of the team's moves because I EXPECT them to compete every year and they don't..

And now this time every excuse in the book that was cooked up last year (New coach, new gm, Losman is like a rookie, the OL sucks, the D has all rookies) is over with.

If anything I am *****ing even more because I expect more out of them now that the above stated excuses have expired.

So I DO expect them to compete for their division... I demonstrated in my thread, that teams who were far WORSE have done it.. Why can't Buffalo?

[Philagape]

There are a couple things I don't understand:

I don't understand why people can't criticize individual moves or a collective philosophy without being called names and drawing childish personal retorts.

I don't understand why people evaluate the future of the team when we haven't even drafted yet, not to mention the preseason.

[RockStar36]

I expect them to compete, no doubt.

[RedEyE]

"I'm only happy when it rains...."

[Mr. Pink]

I expect them to compete as well....

For 3rd place in the division with the Fins.

[Statman]

He expects them to be able to compete. Whether they do or not is a reflection of the management's competencies in that way.

I do believe that was his point.

In other words, if we don't, then the ones not being fair are those that want to continue to give them more time to do what really shouldn't have been that difficult to begin with. Those that are being fair are the ones that realize that it can be done with competent management and therefore want incompetent people gone from management.

Wilson would rather hire buddies that aren't suited for the job however than people he doesn't know real well but are more than capable of doing it.

So we're screwed as fans.

:)

[RockStar36]

I expect them to compete as well....

For 3rd place in the division with the Fins.

I couldn't disagree more.

[Mr. Pink]

Which is better than what I expect for the Browns...they won't even compete to get out of the cellar of the AFC North.

[justasportsfan]

So I DO expect them to compete for their division... I demonstrated in my thread, that teams who were far WORSE have done it.. Why can't Buffalo? WTH?

Oh I get it. You want some love to get you in the green.

Here's a thanks. :D

[Devin]

Are you bi polar?

:rofl:

[patmoran2006]

There are a couple things I don't understand:

I don't understand why people can't criticize individual moves or a collective philosophy without being called names and drawing childish personal retorts.

I don't understand why people evaluate the future of the team when we haven't even drafted yet, not to mention the preseason.
True.

And this thread has little to do with opinion other than the actual positives I pointed out about the Bills from my perspective, and that I personally am expecting them to compete

The meat and potatoes though has nothing to do with opinons.. I just outlined 9 teams over the past three years that had as bad a record as Buffalo or worse make the playoffs the very next year. That's not opinion, that is a fact.

So where's the "rebuilding"? How do the Saints go from 3 wins to the playoffs? The Jets 4. Why are still accepting "rebuilding" as the excuse?

[justasportsfan]

Wilson would rather hire buddies that aren't suited for the job however than people he doesn't know real well but are more than capable of doing it.




I agree. Let's bring Donahoe back. :coocoo:

[RockStar36]

So where's the "rebuilding"? How do the Saints go from 3 wins to the playoffs? The Jets 4. Why are still accepting "rebuilding" as the excuse?

They had good drafts last year.

Which is why we should all take a deep breath till next month.

[patmoran2006]

Nah. F Donahoe.

On January 1st 2008, you will know what kind of GM Marv Levy is based on what the Bills record is.

and at least for this thread, I didnt say a single negative thing about the Bills.. I outlined what I think are their positives, and I showed evidence of many teams over the past three years who were worse than Buffalo make the playoffs the next year.

[Typ0]

There is no rebuilding FA put an end to that...now there is only a constant revolving door of players on many teams. This also has hurt fan interests in things such as rivalries because the players are changing.

I am pretty confident the people in our organization think JP Losman is going to be a great QB. He certainly showed after the bye week like you say. On the other hand, if our offense gets better and our defense gets worse we aren't going to put up wins and JP is only going to put up some stats. He won't get the respect until there are Ws on the board and all three units have got to be strong to get Ws.

[X-Era]

There are a couple things I don't understand:

I don't understand why people can't criticize individual moves or a collective philosophy without being called names and drawing childish personal retorts.

I don't understand why people evaluate the future of the team when we haven't even drafted yet, not to mention the preseason.

Actually, I think you do understand fully on both counts. People like to noodle about the Bills. Hence the purpose of the board. Bills fans, can be loyal to point of attacking those that criticize our beloved team.

[patmoran2006]

They had good drafts last year.

Which is why we should all take a deep breath till next month.
I will confess that I've *****ed too much about a draft that hasnt taken place yet, when the reality is the guy(s) I want may or may not get drafted..So for that I'm wrong.

So from now until April 28th I will limit my *****ing to the Tomato Cans that we resigned who just became starters, and the few more that are sure to follow ;)
http://pbskids.org/lions/words/images/tomato.gif

[justasportsfan]

Nah. F Donahoe.

On January 1st 2008, you will know what kind of GM Marv Levy is based on what the Bills record is.

.


Dude, that's alll we've been saying. Let's give his moves time before we start calling him clueless.

[BSU Drew]

Are you bi polar?
Great question

[Devin]

I will confess that I've *****ed too much about a draft that hasnt taken place yet, when the reality is the guy(s) I want may or may not get drafted..So for that I'm wrong.

So from now until April 28th I will limit my *****ing to the Tomato Cans that we resigned who just became starters, and the few more that are sure to follow ;)
http://pbskids.org/lions/words/images/tomato.gif

Dude point blank there is a reason you post here and arent sitting in a front office. Thats not a knock, just fact same is true for me. Marv will draft well as he did last year, and I believe field the best team he can.

Finding flaws or pissing and moaning about every single little move is really nothing more then unproductive and irritating.

31 teams in the NFL would like Calvin Johnson. Get in line. And regardless of what you believe giving away an entire draft to draft him is ******ed. Arizona is the exception btw.

[Philagape]

True.

And this thread has little to do with opinion other than the actual positives I pointed out about the Bills from my perspective, and that I personally am expecting them to compete

The meat and potatoes though has nothing to do with opinons.. I just outlined 9 teams over the past three years that had as bad a record as Buffalo or worse make the playoffs the very next year. That's not opinion, that is a fact.

So where's the "rebuilding"? How do the Saints go from 3 wins to the playoffs? The Jets 4. Why are still accepting "rebuilding" as the excuse?

I agree. There are no more five-year plans or even three years. The FA era means two things:
1. A team can get better in a hurry.
2. The window to succeed is short because by the time you've built a good team, you have to worry about re-signing your good players, which usually means losing some.

Coming off a 7-9 season, I want to see at least 10 wins this season. I even still think it's possible without another significant FA signing if we hit a home run in the draft.

[Philagape]

Actually, I think you do understand fully on both counts. People like to noodle about the Bills. Hence the purpose of the board. Bills fans, can be loyal to point of attacking those that criticize our beloved team.

One can be loyal without being a childish homer. That's one of the differences between being a fan and being a homer. Critics are the most valuable fans because they want to see the team get better. Accountability and constructive criticism not only should be tolerated but encouraged; they are hallmarks of loving something as much as fans love the Bills, and of a substantial and intelligent discussion.

[patmoran2006]

Dude point blank there is a reason you post here and arent sitting in a front office. Thats not a knock, just fact same is true for me. Marv will draft well as he did last year, and I believe field the best team he can.

Finding flaws or pissing and moaning about every single little move is really nothing more then unproductive and irritating.

31 teams in the NFL would like Calvin Johnson. Get in line. And regardless of what you believe giving away an entire draft to draft him is ******ed. Arizona is the exception btw.

Of course we post on here and we're not in a front office.. we are fans, and thats what fans do.. There are different kinds of fans, but they're still fans.

Of course Marv is smarter than any of us. Unfortunately, we're not his peers and he wont' be judged on his football knowledge against us.

There are 31 other general managers in the national football league that marv levy should be judged and compared too.. Not patmoran2006 or devin.

[Mr. Pink]

One can be loyal without being a childish homer. That's one of the differences between being a fan and being a homer. Critics are the most valuable fans because they want to see the team get better. Accountability and constructive criticism not only should be tolerated but encouraged; they are hallmarks of loving something as much as fans love the Bills, and of a substantial and intelligent discussion.


Thank you, finally someone gets it...Or finally someone says it.

Just because people like me, pat, op say that this team is garbage, has tons of holes, won't be very successful, have a swiss cheese defense, etc. Does Not Mean we do not root for the team and want them to win.

We're sick of this band-aid approach that hasn't worked for years, but now all of a sudden it is? And yet there's still people year after year who buy into it. I want to see an honest effort to getting this team better. The Dockery signing was a step in the right direction then we go out and pay some ex-raider bum 5 million a year who gave up 10 sacks last year and then expect miraculously he's gonna be better on our team. If you suck, you suck. Sorry, it's the way it works. Put a band-aid over a dyke and it's still gonna explode.

Instead of us going out last year and getting a good receiver with our money, we give two scrub receivers that money. Reasoning for this? I have no idea. It's not going to work and it obviously didn't. Lee Evans needs a legitimate threat at the 2 spot or else he's in for a long year. Teams realize he's a threat now and he's gonna see tons of doubles. With Peerless on the other side or Reed they can triple him and not have to worry much.

Our run D last year was absolutely abomindable so what do we do? Re-sign Kelsay and Anderson, good idea! These are two of the reasons why our rush defense sucked last year. They sucked last year, they're gonna suck this year. Instead of saving the money on not signing either and bringing new blood in, which yes, may or may not work, we re-up two guys we KNOW aren't good enough. Where does this make any sense? Then we sit and blame Fletch and say he sucks and doesn't make any plays outside of 5-7 yards from the LOS. Well guess what, when your DL is swiss cheese against the run and a cover 2 system which has the backers going back on plays combined with O-lineman being able to get their meathooks on our LBers, NO LB is gonna make plays anywhere near the LOS. Simple Fact. For this very reason I'm not upset that we had no interest in Thomas nor are we in the running for Briggs. It doesn't matter who the LBers are when your DLine is a sieve.

We lost our best running back, corner and LB this offseason and replaced them with what? Scrubs. Go figure some of us have a problem with this. And Ralphie will see from the gate revenues that plenty of people in this area have a problem with this.

Yes we're in rebuilding mode, I get this, some don't but still. I understand we're not good enough to win the AFC East. I have no problem with that, what I do have a problem with is we've done nothing outside of Dockery to improve any unit on this team. And then we've allowed other units to get worse. It's hard to catch those above you who are sprinting when you're crawling.

[patmoran2006]

Thank you, finally someone gets it...Or finally someone says it.

Just because people like me, pat, op say that this team is garbage, has tons of holes, won't be very successful, have a swiss cheese defense, etc. Does Not Mean we do not root for the team and want them to win.

We're sick of this band-aid approach that hasn't worked for years, but now all of a sudden it is? And yet there's still people year after year who buy into it. I want to see an honest effort to getting this team better. The Dockery signing was a step in the right direction then we go out and pay some ex-raider bum 5 million a year who gave up 10 sacks last year and then expect miraculously he's gonna be better on our team. If you suck, you suck. Sorry, it's the way it works. Put a band-aid over a dyke and it's still gonna explode.

Instead of us going out last year and getting a good receiver with our money, we give two scrub receivers that money. Reasoning for this? I have no idea. It's not going to work and it obviously didn't. Lee Evans needs a legitimate threat at the 2 spot or else he's in for a long year. Teams realize he's a threat now and he's gonna see tons of doubles. With Peerless on the other side or Reed they can triple him and not have to worry much.

Our run D last year was absolutely abomindable so what do we do? Re-sign Kelsay and Anderson, good idea! These are two of the reasons why our rush defense sucked last year. They sucked last year, they're gonna suck this year. Instead of saving the money on not signing either and bringing new blood in, which yes, may or may not work, we re-up two guys we KNOW aren't good enough. Where does this make any sense? Then we sit and blame Fletch and say he sucks and doesn't make any plays outside of 5-7 yards from the LOS. Well guess what, when your DL is swiss cheese against the run and a cover 2 system which has the backers going back on plays combined with O-lineman being able to get their meathooks on our LBers, NO LB is gonna make plays anywhere near the LOS. Simple Fact. For this very reason I'm not upset that we had no interest in Thomas nor are we in the running for Briggs. It doesn't matter who the LBers are when your DLine is a sieve.

We lost our best running back, corner and LB this offseason and replaced them with what? Scrubs. Go figure some of us have a problem with this. And Ralphie will see from the gate revenues that plenty of people in this area have a problem with this.

Yes we're in rebuilding mode, I get this, some don't but still. I understand we're not good enough to win the AFC East. I have no problem with that, what I do have a problem with is we've done nothing outside of Dockery to improve any unit on this team. And then we've allowed other units to get worse. It's hard to catch those above you who are sprinting when you're crawling.
Best post I"ve seen in a while.

[Philagape]

Thank you, finally someone gets it...Or finally someone says it.

Just because people like me, pat, op say that this team is garbage, has tons of holes, won't be very successful, have a swiss cheese defense, etc. Does Not Mean we do not root for the team and want them to win.

We're sick of this band-aid approach that hasn't worked for years, but now all of a sudden it is? And yet there's still people year after year who buy into it. I want to see an honest effort to getting this team better. The Dockery signing was a step in the right direction then we go out and pay some ex-raider bum 5 million a year who gave up 10 sacks last year and then expect miraculously he's gonna be better on our team. If you suck, you suck. Sorry, it's the way it works. Put a band-aid over a dyke and it's still gonna explode.

Instead of us going out last year and getting a good receiver with our money, we give two scrub receivers that money. Reasoning for this? I have no idea. It's not going to work and it obviously didn't. Lee Evans needs a legitimate threat at the 2 spot or else he's in for a long year. Teams realize he's a threat now and he's gonna see tons of doubles. With Peerless on the other side or Reed they can triple him and not have to worry much.

Our run D last year was absolutely abomindable so what do we do? Re-sign Kelsay and Anderson, good idea! These are two of the reasons why our rush defense sucked last year. They sucked last year, they're gonna suck this year. Instead of saving the money on not signing either and bringing new blood in, which yes, may or may not work, we re-up two guys we KNOW aren't good enough. Where does this make any sense? Then we sit and blame Fletch and say he sucks and doesn't make any plays outside of 5-7 yards from the LOS. Well guess what, when your DL is swiss cheese against the run and a cover 2 system which has the backers going back on plays combined with O-lineman being able to get their meathooks on our LBers, NO LB is gonna make plays anywhere near the LOS. Simple Fact. For this very reason I'm not upset that we had no interest in Thomas nor are we in the running for Briggs. It doesn't matter who the LBers are when your DLine is a sieve.

We lost our best running back, corner and LB this offseason and replaced them with what? Scrubs. Go figure some of us have a problem with this. And Ralphie will see from the gate revenues that plenty of people in this area have a problem with this.

Yes we're in rebuilding mode, I get this, some don't but still. I understand we're not good enough to win the AFC East. I have no problem with that, what I do have a problem with is we've done nothing outside of Dockery to improve any unit on this team. And then we've allowed other units to get worse. It's hard to catch those above you who are sprinting when you're crawling.

Now in the spirit of mature debate, I'll say it's too early to measure how much we will lose or improve in any area since we haven't drafted yet. When the preseason arrives, there will be cuts and possibly more signings that can't be anticipated now. While the way we've chosen to spend our available cash this year is questionable, the state of the team at this moment is incomplete.

Now here's the homer response: "HAHAHA!!! Just go away!! You contribute nothing but bashing!!! You don't know any better! Just trust Marv!!" Usually accompanied by some derogatory smilie.

[justasportsfan]

Thank you, finally someone gets it...Or finally someone says it.

Just because people like me, pat, op say that this team is garbage, has tons of holes, won't be very successful, have a swiss cheese defense, etc. Does Not Mean we do not root for the team and want them to win.

We're sick of this band-aid approach that hasn't worked for years, but now all of a sudden it is? And yet there's still people year after year who buy into it. I want to see an honest effort to getting this team better. The Dockery signing was a step in the right direction then we go out and pay some ex-raider bum 5 million a year who gave up 10 sacks last year and then expect miraculously he's gonna be better on our team. If you suck, you suck. Sorry, it's the way it works. Put a band-aid over a dyke and it's still gonna explode.

Instead of us going out last year and getting a good receiver with our money, we give two scrub receivers that money. Reasoning for this? I have no idea. It's not going to work and it obviously didn't. Lee Evans needs a legitimate threat at the 2 spot or else he's in for a long year. Teams realize he's a threat now and he's gonna see tons of doubles. With Peerless on the other side or Reed they can triple him and not have to worry much.

Our run D last year was absolutely abomindable so what do we do? Re-sign Kelsay and Anderson, good idea! These are two of the reasons why our rush defense sucked last year. They sucked last year, they're gonna suck this year. Instead of saving the money on not signing either and bringing new blood in, which yes, may or may not work, we re-up two guys we KNOW aren't good enough. Where does this make any sense? Then we sit and blame Fletch and say he sucks and doesn't make any plays outside of 5-7 yards from the LOS. Well guess what, when your DL is swiss cheese against the run and a cover 2 system which has the backers going back on plays combined with O-lineman being able to get their meathooks on our LBers, NO LB is gonna make plays anywhere near the LOS. Simple Fact. For this very reason I'm not upset that we had no interest in Thomas nor are we in the running for Briggs. It doesn't matter who the LBers are when your DLine is a sieve.

We lost our best running back, corner and LB this offseason and replaced them with what? Scrubs. Go figure some of us have a problem with this. And Ralphie will see from the gate revenues that plenty of people in this area have a problem with this.

Yes we're in rebuilding mode, I get this, some don't but still. I understand we're not good enough to win the AFC East. I have no problem with that, what I do have a problem with is we've done nothing outside of Dockery to improve any unit on this team. And then we've allowed other units to get worse. It's hard to catch those above you who are sprinting when you're crawling.
there's a huge difference between being constructively cynical or critical from repeating the same thing over and over and starting threads with stupid pictures.

there's also a huge difference between calling marv clueless because he does not do things the way you want only to find out that Marv did exactly address the whines but took a little more time than expected.

Notice I barely even touch your posts because you're not repetitive about the same thing time and again.

I have barely touched OP's post because Pat took over all the whining.

Op also doesn't start stupid threads with stupid pictures to show his frustration.

It's okay to voice you opinion, I have no problem with that. It's when people start ruining the board with numerous theads about the same thing.

[patmoran2006]

I think Marv is clueless?

[Mr. Pink]

Now in the spirit of mature debate, I'll say it's too early to measure how much we will lose or improve in any area since we haven't drafted yet. When the preseason arrives, there will be cuts and possibly more signings that can't be anticipated now. While the way we've chosen to spend our available cash this year is questionable, the state of the team at this moment is incomplete.

Now here's the homer response: "HAHAHA!!! Just go away!! You contribute nothing but bashing!!! You don't know any better! Just trust Marv!!" Usually accompanied by some derogatory smilie.


I'll give you that its too early to judge our talent level for opening day. However, if we're lucky we'll hit on 2-3 difference makers from the draft. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out we're not going to draft anyone on the DL. If we were we sure as hell wouldn't have re-signed super scrub Timmy.

We won't be drafting anyone on the OL either with how much money we put into it this FA period. Which I'll say is the only area on this team that's improved from last year.

LB, I could honestly care less what we do with this position right now. It ain't gonna make a lick of difference what we do to help against the run, because our DL is on par with a middle of the pack Division 1 school.

Corners, don't really matter much in a cover 2 system. You can plug in average guys at corner and not skip a beat. All they have to be is smart enough to know their assignments.

RB, I sure as hell hope we take Lynch with our first pick. A-Train and <insert scrub FA name here> are and will not be good enough.

FB, FFS we don't even have 1 right now. Who cares, we have Fairchild, just go to a spread offense and don't use a FB. Then again, with the looks of the running game, we may just do that anyways.

So on paper, even with a good draft, we're still gonna suck against the run. Which doesn't help you win ball games in the NFL. We play in a cold-weather climate...we can't afford to try to turn this into "the greatest show on turf" part deux. We don't have a climate that suggests we can be a high powered offense with the passing game that will work in December and beyond.

Sadly right now, our best gameplan is to throw tons of short passes, hope to gain 4 yards per pop. Eat lots of clock and keep our pathetic rush defense off the field as much as possible. Throw in some A-train 3 1/2 yards per carry once in a while to keep teams honest.

[justasportsfan]

I think Marv is clueless?
you denying it?

[Mr. Pink]

When it comes to FA....if Marv is in charge, he's clueless. Whoever is in charge of FA sure as hell is. Draft is another story. Outside of McCargo, I'm extremely pleased with the drafting so far.

Our policy in FA is quantity over quality. We've made one quality signing in 2 FA periods during Marvs' tenure. We've made plenty of quantity signings though!

[patmoran2006]

there's ahuge difference between being constructively cynical or critical from repeating the same thing over andover and starting threads with stupid pictures.

there's also a huge difference between calling marv clueless because he does not do things they was you want only to find out that Marv did exactly address the whines but took a little more time than expected.

Notice I barely even touch your posts because you're not repetitive about the smae thing time and agin.

I have barely touched OP's post because Pat took over all the whining.

Op also doesn't start stupid threads with stupid pictures to show his frustration.
This thread wasnt *****ing and moaning, it wasnt based on opinion, it was based on fact..

I talk FOOTBALL and if you dont want to hear me "***** and moan" then skip my thread and/or put me on ignore.. But secretly, I think you get off on it because you sure love following my posts around.

I rarely if ever get personal until someone provokes me, which you are clearly trying to do.. Your like Eddie Hascle, always trying to get someone into "internet trouble"

People like you are a joke to me on here.. THere are plenty of guys on here, even Captain Homer himself Dr Letcher that I can argue, agree and debate with but almost ALWAYS keep on the subject of the thread. Those people offset the few chumpstains on here that bring NOTHING except stalking other posters with Marv-Love comments.

Seriously, go look at your last 100 posts, and I'll bet 98 of them have a quote from me or OP in your reply box.. Your like totally obsessed.

Until further notice, I am going to be a man of VERY few words (thurm style) and a lot of images.. Just to appease you and a couple of the other homer buddies.. OK Rah Rah?
http://www.acland-photo.com/images/Zip%20Lip%202001.jpg

[justasportsfan]

When it comes to FA....if Marv is in charge, he's clueless. Whoever is in charge of FA sure as hell is. Draft is another story. Outside of McCargo, I'm extremely pleased with the drafting so far.

Our policy in FA is quantity over quality. We've made one quality signing in 2 FA periods during Marvs' tenure. We've made plenty of quantity signings though!
UH okay. Let's talk when season starts. We'll see if he's clueless.

[Gunzlingr]

there's a huge difference between being constructively cynical or critical from repeating the same thing over and over and starting threads with stupid pictures.

there's also a huge difference between calling marv clueless because he does not do things the way you want only to find out that Marv did exactly address the whines but took a little more time than expected.

Notice I barely even touch your posts because you're not repetitive about the same thing time and again.

I have barely touched OP's post because Pat took over all the whining.

Op also doesn't start stupid threads with stupid pictures to show his frustration.

It's okay to voice you opinion, I have no problem with that. It's when people start ruinging the board with numerous theads about the same thing.

I agree 100%. There is nothing wrong with debating whether a move was good or not (tho at this time none of us know), it when you 43 threads by the same people *****ing about the same thing that it gets old. The other issue is that most of the time the poster pulls an Ice and claims they no it all and everyone else is an idiot for not agreeing. So you end up with numerous dead horse threads started by someone who thinks they know more than everyone else. You also have the hater faction that can never acknowledge when the player they hate does well I just call them the Total Dumbasses.

I don't konw if the quality of the posters has gone down or what, but it a guy used to be able to go to the Bills forum for intelligent debate and discussion. I guess those were days are gone.

[justasportsfan]

This thread wasnt *****ing and moaning, it wasnt based on opinion, it was based on fact..

I talk FOOTBALL and if you dont want to hear me "***** and moan" then skip my thread and/or put me on ignore.. But secretly, I think you get off on it because you sure love following my posts around.

I rarely if ever get personal until someone provokes me, which you are clearly trying to do.. Your like Eddie Hascle, always trying to get someone into "internet trouble"

People like you are a joke to me on here.. THere are plenty of guys on here, even Captain Homer himself Dr Letcher that I can argue, agree and debate with but almost ALWAYS keep on the subject of the thread. Those people offset the few chumpstains on here that bring NOTHING except stalking other posters with Marv-Love comments.

Seriously, go look at your last 100 posts, and I'll bet 98 of them have a quote from me or OP in your reply box.. Your like totally obsessed.

Until further notice, I am going to be a man of VERY few words (thurm style) and a lot of images.. Just to appease you and a couple of the other homer buddies.. OK Rah Rah?
http://www.acland-photo.com/images/Zip%20Lip%202001.jpg


see what I mean. Very mature Moran. How can I talk football with you when we are all wrong if we don't agree with you ICE, I mean Pat?

I'm a cheerleader because I don't blast Marv? You still haven't shown me where I cheered all of Marv's moves because YOU CAN'T , but instead you still insist with your mature (/sarcasm) remarks that I do nothing but cheer for Marv.

You can call me a joke all you want when several posters here think you are the one. Just like ICE you're being numb about it because it's all about how good you are. NOT.

[Mr. Pink]

UH okay. Let's talk when season starts. We'll see if he's clueless.


Well lets go over last years signings then...

Bowen? No contribution and cut.
Reed? useless.
Andre Davis? good as gone.
Fowler? Good depth but he starts here.
Reyes? Benched and Cut.
Price? I don't have words to describe the stupidity of bringing back this re-tread.
Royal? Captain no-hands, no awareness of where he is on the field and getting called for penalties.
Triplett? Was he even on the field last year? Honestly.
A-train? 3.5 ypc and 2 tds...he's now pencilled in at starter. (gag)

Am I missing anyone?
Where are any of these guys "quality"

[TigerJ]

I'm not sure they can win the division. NE has made more upgrades than I expected them to. I think Buffalo will compete for a playoff spot this year and I will be disappointed if they don't.

[justasportsfan]

Well lets go over last years signings then...

Bowen? No contribution and cut.
Reed? useless.
Andre Davis? good as gone.
Fowler? Good depth but he starts here.
Reyes? Benched and Cut.
Price? I don't have words to describe the stupidity of bringing back this re-tread.
Royal? Captain no-hands, no awareness of where he is on the field and getting called for penalties.
Triplett? Was he even on the field last year? Honestly.
A-train? 3.5 ypc and 2 tds...he's now pencilled in at starter. (gag)

Am I missing anyone?
Where are any of these guys "quality"
no,no,no. Let's go over last years expectations. No one gave us a chance. I've pointed out several times that people don't get exactly every player they want in their first year. Not, Bellichick. Not Polian.

Who cares who he grabbed in his first year? It's not his fault that he inherited a mess. But look what he did with the mess, he pointed them in the right direction in his first year. Does that mean he's already successful? No WAY , but it's better than going backwards.

The jets were one of the very few examples that made it in their first year. Like OP said, they are an exeption to the rule, not the rule.

[Mr. Pink]

What mess did he inherit? I illustrated how it wasn't a mess in the Did anyone hear this thread, so I won't type out the same thing again. I'd love to know how the CORE of this team is what TD assembled and still is but it's a mess.

Please explain this to me.

[Philagape]

Who cares who he grabbed in his first year?

"Who cares"???? Isn't that a topic of debate, what he does as GM? Five of those guys were acquired to be starters, so I do kinda care how they turn out.

[justasportsfan]

What mess did he inherit? I illustrated how it wasn't a mess in the Did anyone hear this thread, so I won't type out the same thing again. I'd love to know how the CORE of this team is what TD assembled and still is but it's a mess.

Please explain this to me.

A messed up qb position. In case you missed it, the season was all about developing JP who was all messed up from theTD period.

A rb with issues.

That's 2 major postions on the O.

On the D got rid of an aging Posey and Milloy who they knew off the batt wouldn't fitt their scheme. Had no choice but to fix the backfield via the draft.

Clements- they inherited a player who wanted to be paid as the best cb in the field. He had a horrible season prior to last year, who in their right mind would want to pay him top dollar without even finding out if he can play the cover 2?

The Ol . He inherited Bennie Anderson who he cut. Villarial?

Every coaches 1st season is usually based on trying to assesss the players they inherited. On the 2nd year, the cleaning starts. I'm not saying we're there yet, but at least we started already.

[justasportsfan]

"Who cares"???? Isn't that a topic of debate, what he does as GM? Five of those guys were acquired to be starters, so I do kinda care how they turn out.

It's been stated several times, Marv and co wanted to grab playes who were young but never lived up to their potential without breaking the bank. Hence, Reyes, Davis, I never expected these guy to be here for the long haul. As I said , several teams never get it right in their first year.

[patmoran2006]

Clements- they inherited a player who wanted to be paid as the best cb in the field. He had a horrible season prior to last year, who in their right mind would want to pay him top dollar without even finding out if he can play the cover 2?

The .
Then why franchise him and tie up $7.2 million dollars last year? So to answer your question, MARV LEVY wanted to pay him top dollar without even finding out if he can play the cover two.

WHy not trade him and get something for him, anything.. As opposed to agreeing not to tagging him this year, paying him 7.2 million for a cover two you knew you were going to run before the season, and then letting him walk.

EDITED: Too many words

[kgun12]

Are you bi polar?


:spit:

YES!!!

:roflmao:

[justasportsfan]

Then why franchise him and tie up $7.2 million dollars last year? So to answer your question, MARV LEVY wanted to pay him top dollar without even finding out if he can play the cover two.

WHy not trade him and get something for him, anything.. As opposed to agreeing not to tagging him this year, paying him 7.2 million for a cover two you knew you were going to run before the season, adn then letting him walk.

EDITED: Too many words


I would think they wanted to minimize damage and break Youboty in. Now they know that Clements and his salary is no longer needed, let him go now that they have a cleareer picture of what they have. Whether you agree with the personnel or not is another topic.

BTw, are we talking football ? :huh:

[patmoran2006]

Fair enough.

[Mr. Pink]

It's been stated several times, Marv and co wanted to grab playes who were young but never lived up to their potential without breaking the bank. Hence, Reyes, Davis, I never expected these guy to be here for the long haul. As I said , several teams never get it right in their first year.


Well outside of Dockery, we just did it again, two years in a row. So do we give them another pass for the free agent period?

Or do you expect Langston Walker to suddenly become a NFL caliber lineman?

Maybe Tim Anderson will turn into the white Warren Sapp?

Kelsay will be the white Richard Dent!

Shaud Williams will be the waiter for tea and crumpet time.

Face facts, the best players and core of this team are TD players. I'd hate to inherit a mess that included such a solid young core. Terrible.

[justasportsfan]

Well outside of Dockery, we just did it again, two years in a row. So do we give them another pass for the free agent period?

Or do you expect Langston Walker to suddenly become a NFL caliber lineman?

Maybe Tim Anderson will turn into the white Warren Sapp?

Kelsay will be the white Richard Dent!

Shaud Williams will be the waiter for tea and crumpet time.

Face facts, the best players and core of this team are TD players. I'd hate to inherit a mess that included such a solid young core. Terrible.


Whther you agree that Walker is a waste or not is another topic. He did address what he thinks is the problem and like I said, we'll see if he's right or wrong.

Marv is neither right nor wrong because you and Moran say so.

I am not going to play, Marv is clueless because the national experts tried that last year by predicting we're going no where or that we weren't going to be competitive and they were WRONG.

[Mr. Pink]

Our pathetic blocking abilities which Marv tried to fix last year with band-aids shows he's wrong.

Our pathetic rush defense last year which Marv tried to fix last year and is keeping the same this year says he's wrong.

Our pathetic WRs outside of Lee Evans - whom TD drafted - says he's wrong.

That not me or PatMoran saying he's wrong, that's the product on the field saying he was wrong.

[patmoran2006]

For the record: I blame Wilson for our FA class last year a lot more than Marv. I"m fairly sure Marv wanted to sign better players and was tied down.

And even more for the record and this is pissing me off.. Stop f'n trying to make it sound like I think Marv Levy is an idiot.. I strongly disagree with some of the moves he's made so far, actually a lot of them. .But dont be ignorant and make it seem like I talk about him like he cant wipe his own ass anymore.

[justasportsfan]

Our pathetic blocking abilities which Marv tried to fix last year with band-aids shows he's wrong.

Our pathetic rush defense last year which Marv tried to fix last year and is keeping the same this year says he's wrong.

Our pathetic WRs outside of Lee Evans - whom TD drafted - says he's wrong.

That not me or PatMoran saying he's wrong, that's the product on the field saying he was wrong.


tell that to people who thought we'd finish 4-12 and picked us to finish last in the division. I know it's no big feat but at least it's better than where we were a year ago.

You're nitpicking on certain positions or certain hires without looking at the entire team and how they performed last year.

[Mr. Pink]

tell that to people who thought we'd finish 4-12 and picked us to finish last in the division. I know it's no big feat but at least it's better than where we were a year ago.

You're nitpicking on certain positions or certain hires without looking at the entire team and how they performed last year.


I may be nitpicking yes...but this team right now is worse on paper than it was last year, outside of OL. We have a more difficult schedule as it looks now than last year and we're looking to be headed for a worse record. Yes that's speculation/opinion not fact.

Hell, some posters on here are going as far to say, don't draft certain people because there are better ones in the next draft. Are some people already conceding this year? Because that's what it looks like.

[justasportsfan]

I may be nitpicking yes...but this team right now is worse on paper than it was last year, outside of OL. We have a more difficult schedule as it looks now than last year and we're looking to be headed for a worse record. Yes that's speculation/opinion not fact.

Hell, some posters on here are going as far to say, don't draft certain people because there are better ones in the next draft. Are some people already conceding this year? Because that's what it looks like.


On paper. Were we not the worse team on paper last year? Like I said, we'll see what results that paper will have on sundays.

Just so you know, I still agree we have holes to fill but just don't go repeating it over and over again and b!tching when ever the team makes or doesn't make a move.

The same poepl who are conceding this year are the same ones who probably said we're gonna finish last , last year. While they are niether right nor wrong in conceding, I'm gonna enjoy watching the team play on sundays.

This is not college football where a computer tells us who the champs are.

[Ed]

I may be nitpicking yes...but this team right now is worse on paper than it was last year, outside of OL. We have a more difficult schedule as it looks now than last year and we're looking to be headed for a worse record. Yes that's speculation/opinion not fact.

Hell, some posters on here are going as far to say, don't draft certain people because there are better ones in the next draft. Are some people already conceding this year? Because that's what it looks like.
We're only worse on paper if you assume that there is no room for individual improvement. And how do you know our additions to the OL don't make us better on paper then a cover 2 CB and an aging undersized MLB?

[Mr. Pink]

We're only worse on paper if you assume that there is no room for individual improvement. And how do you know our additions to the OL don't make us better on paper then a cover 2 CB and an aging undersized MLB?


We're improved on the o-line, definitely. Dockery alone does that. I refuse to talk about Langston Turnstile anymore.

Running back, we lost a guy who was getting 3.8 ypc, which usually isn't a cause for concern but now our main RB averaged 3.5 ypc last year. Obviously this is not an improvement.

Our WRs outside of Evans are still putrid

Our TEs are just putrid

Our DL was a sieve last year and will continue to be one. Unless you expect Tim Anderson to finally get it or Chris Kelsay to actually earn his ridiculous contract.

Our LBers are worse without question.

and our corners are also unquestionably worse.

The only real positive this team has, well two, is youth and special teams. Our teams' best player is either Lee Evans or Brian Moorman. It's not a good thing when your Punter qualifies as one of your best players. I went through rooting for the Browns for 3 years with Chris Gardocki as their best player, it doesn't make for things being positive much.

[Philagape]

tell that to people who thought we'd finish 4-12 and picked us to finish last in the division.

I'm trying to see the point in this ... what possible relevance does anyone's opinion from a year ago have? That says nothing either way about the quality of the team then or now. We should be measuring our progress in terms of how soon we'll contend for a championship, not against how bad some people thought we were last year. Who cares?