Our new starting CB, shut down potential

[HAMMER]

I stole this post from Bagel at TBD, I thought it was excellent.

The player is described as follows:

5'11", 189, 4.43, Excellent college football program, Scout grade of 90 (Behind Leon Hall (95) and Darrelle Revis (91), tied with Aaron Ross)

Strengths: Possesses ideal height, adequate bulk and the frame to get bigger. Is a smooth and fluid athlete for his size. Possesses good top-end speed. He has long arms and good leaping ability to challenge for the ball in the air. He is intelligent and should be able to learn from his mistakes. He plays aggressively in run support. Fills hard, takes decent angles and has developed into a solid open field tackler. Shows playmaking instincts when the ball is in the air and he has outstanding ball skills. He has experience returning punts and shows NFL upside in that capacity.

Weaknesses: Recognition skills are below average. Remains too inconsistent in coverage. Gambles too often and will give up too many big plays consequently. He gives away his tendencies and got burnt for it on several occasions as a junior (see Minnesota and Texas games). Lacks ideal bulk and strength. Will have some more trouble taking on bigger blockers and taking down bigger runners in the NFL.

Overall: He played as a reserve defensive back in all 13 games of his true freshman season. He started nine of the 12 games that he played as a sophomore and finished with 61 tackles, four interceptions and 14 passes broken up. He started all 12 games as a junior and finished with 56 tackles, six TFL, one sack, one interception and nine PBU. He is an early entry prospect with loads of upside but also lots of room to improve. He possesses an outstanding combination of size, athletic ability and speed, and he also flashes playmaking skills as a man-to-man cover corner. However, he is inconsistent in terms of his technique and recognition skills in coverage, which leads to entirely too many big plays allowed on his watch. In short, he is by no means a finished product but he has the potential to develop into a shutdown cover corner in the NFL, which is why he could come off the draft board late in the first round.
___________________________

This is last year’s pre-draft profile of Ashton Youboty. Presumably, his two greatest deficiencies (1) inconsistent technique and (2) lack of bulk have been somewhat addressed in his first year with the Bills. Perhaps our hole at cornerback is not as deep as some fear. Give the brother a chance.

[Slim]

Is this Chris Housten?

[Slim]

Or are you making a point with Ashton. Im really confused.

[patmoran2006]

Is this Chris Housten?
No, its Ashton Youboty from last year.. WHo's built like..
http://valdefierro.com/timesd03.jpg

[patmoran2006]

I stole this post from Bagel at TBD, I thought it was excellent.

The player is described as follows:

5'11", 189, 4.43, Excellent college football program, Scout grade of 90 (Behind Leon Hall (95) and Darrelle Revis (91), tied with Aaron Ross)

Strengths: Possesses ideal height, adequate bulk and the frame to get bigger. Is a smooth and fluid athlete for his size. Possesses good top-end speed. He has long arms and good leaping ability to challenge for the ball in the air. He is intelligent and should be able to learn from his mistakes. He plays aggressively in run support. Fills hard, takes decent angles and has developed into a solid open field tackler. Shows playmaking instincts when the ball is in the air and he has outstanding ball skills. He has experience returning punts and shows NFL upside in that capacity.

Weaknesses: Recognition skills are below average. Remains too inconsistent in coverage. Gambles too often and will give up too many big plays consequently. He gives away his tendencies and got burnt for it on several occasions as a junior (see Minnesota and Texas games). Lacks ideal bulk and strength. Will have some more trouble taking on bigger blockers and taking down bigger runners in the NFL.

Overall: He played as a reserve defensive back in all 13 games of his true freshman season. He started nine of the 12 games that he played as a sophomore and finished with 61 tackles, four interceptions and 14 passes broken up. He started all 12 games as a junior and finished with 56 tackles, six TFL, one sack, one interception and nine PBU. He is an early entry prospect with loads of upside but also lots of room to improve. He possesses an outstanding combination of size, athletic ability and speed, and he also flashes playmaking skills as a man-to-man cover corner. However, he is inconsistent in terms of his technique and recognition skills in coverage, which leads to entirely too many big plays allowed on his watch. In short, he is by no means a finished product but he has the potential to develop into a shutdown cover corner in the NFL, which is why he could come off the draft board late in the first round.
___________________________

This is last year’s pre-draft profile of Ashton Youboty. Presumably, his two greatest deficiencies (1) inconsistent technique and (2) lack of bulk have been somewhat addressed in his first year with the Bills. Perhaps our hole at cornerback is not as deep as some fear. Give the brother a chance.
I groaned you because I dont like you.

However.. I do think you're on to something.. He absolutely has starter potential and could be a good one at that.

[Devin]

I thanks him to make up for PMs groan.

:jam:

[Carlton Bailey]

No, its Ashton Youboty from last year.. WHo's built like..
http://valdefierro.com/timesd03.jpg


So was Merton Hanks. He was pretty good.

[patmoran2006]

Thought of him too.. Yep
http://www.mckyfoto.com/CelebrityImages/HanksMagazine.jpg

[Mr. Pink]

Merton Hanks! The Human Bobble-head Doll!

[realdealryan]

Merton Hanks tackled receivers who looked like this:
http://www.hollywoodsportsbook.com/nflgreats/images/Largent,Steve9.jpg

Now they look like this:
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0608/galley.nlf.vernondavis/images/0-015779870.jpg

[B-DON]

I loved that dance. Goes to show you not all celebrating is ba for the game. I dont know one person who hated that dance.

[ublinkwescore]

I loved that dance. Goes to show you not all celebrating is ba for the game. I dont know one person who hated that dance.

I hated that dance

[Nighthawk]

I stole this post from Bagel at TBD, I thought it was excellent.

The player is described as follows:

5'11", 189, 4.43, Excellent college football program, Scout grade of 90 (Behind Leon Hall (95) and Darrelle Revis (91), tied with Aaron Ross)

Strengths: Possesses ideal height, adequate bulk and the frame to get bigger. Is a smooth and fluid athlete for his size. Possesses good top-end speed. He has long arms and good leaping ability to challenge for the ball in the air. He is intelligent and should be able to learn from his mistakes. He plays aggressively in run support. Fills hard, takes decent angles and has developed into a solid open field tackler. Shows playmaking instincts when the ball is in the air and he has outstanding ball skills. He has experience returning punts and shows NFL upside in that capacity.

Weaknesses: Recognition skills are below average. Remains too inconsistent in coverage. Gambles too often and will give up too many big plays consequently. He gives away his tendencies and got burnt for it on several occasions as a junior (see Minnesota and Texas games). Lacks ideal bulk and strength. Will have some more trouble taking on bigger blockers and taking down bigger runners in the NFL.

Overall: He played as a reserve defensive back in all 13 games of his true freshman season. He started nine of the 12 games that he played as a sophomore and finished with 61 tackles, four interceptions and 14 passes broken up. He started all 12 games as a junior and finished with 56 tackles, six TFL, one sack, one interception and nine PBU. He is an early entry prospect with loads of upside but also lots of room to improve. He possesses an outstanding combination of size, athletic ability and speed, and he also flashes playmaking skills as a man-to-man cover corner. However, he is inconsistent in terms of his technique and recognition skills in coverage, which leads to entirely too many big plays allowed on his watch. In short, he is by no means a finished product but he has the potential to develop into a shutdown cover corner in the NFL, which is why he could come off the draft board late in the first round.
___________________________

This is last year’s pre-draft profile of Ashton Youboty. Presumably, his two greatest deficiencies (1) inconsistent technique and (2) lack of bulk have been somewhat addressed in his first year with the Bills. Perhaps our hole at cornerback is not as deep as some fear. Give the brother a chance.

I agree. How quickly everybody forgets that this kid was viewed as a late 1st rounder in last years draft by many scouts. I would have liked the coaching staff to play him more at the end of last season, but I see no reason to take a CB in the 1st round this year. Let him play and see what he can do.

[ShadowHawk7]

Good thread. This is actually similiar to our DT situation. We have a VERY talented prospect who didn't get on the field much as a rookie but spent a year in the system. We know someone needs to step up at the position, but we're not giving the previous prospects the chance to prove why they were a 1st round talent.

Of course I'm talking about Youboty and McCargo. Many of us here already want to draft a first round talent to replace a first round talent who hasn't been given his shot yet. Does that make football sense?

I understand our DT situation is more dire than CB, but I still don't think that justifies taking another one until the 3rd round. One could make the arguement that we're not replacing McCargo's side, but instead Williams/Anderson's side. To this, i would argue that having a bonafide MLB like Willis to complement Crowell and Spikes/Ellison would benefit us more than using a unproven player to replace Williams who did a solid job as it is as a rookie.

So basically I'm saying we shouldn't be drafting too high at either DT or LB until we give our other 1st round talents a legitimate shot.

Obviously, this cannot be said about RB, LB, and WR, which is why I think we should draft high at those positions first.

[Saratoga Slim]

Good thread. This is actually similiar to our DT situation. We have a VERY talented prospect who didn't get on the field much as a rookie but spent a year in the system. We know someone needs to step up at the position, but we're not giving the previous prospects the chance to prove why they were a 1st round talent.

Of course I'm talking about Youboty and McCargo. Many of us here already want to draft a first round talent to replace a first round talent who hasn't been given his shot yet. Does that make football sense?

I understand our DT situation is more dire than CB, but I still don't think that justifies taking another one until the 3rd round. One could make the arguement that we're not replacing McCargo's side, but instead Williams/Anderson's side. To this, i would argue that having a bonafide MLB like Willis to complement Crowell and Spikes/Ellison would benefit us more than using a unproven player to replace Williams who did a solid job as it is as a rookie.

So basically I'm saying we shouldn't be drafting too high at either DT or LB until we give our other 1st round talents a legitimate shot.

Obviously, this cannot be said about RB, LB, and WR, which is why I think we should draft high at those positions first.

I still want Okoye. But you've got a point.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

Here were the starting cornerbacks for the final four playoff teams:

1. Mike McKenzie - undrafted
2. Fred Thomas - undrafted
3. Charles Tillman - 2nd - 3rd
4. Nathan Vasher - 4th - 14th
5. Asante Samuel - 4th - 23rd
6. Ellis Hobbs - undrafted
7. Nick Harper - Undrafted
8. Marlin Jackson - 1st - 29th


I think the cornerback position is so overrated. I am not a fan of spending a high pick on a corner. I think there are other positions that can be addressed before you address the corner position.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I groaned you because I dont like you.


Is that stuff really necessary?

[Don't Panic]

Amazing how we view a rookie who has yet to be drafted (Hall for example) compared to a guy who has a year under his belt. It's like a new car on the lot vs. the one that left the lot a couple of weeks ago. We need to be careful how much we depriciate the latter.

[Nighthawk]

Here were the starting cornerbacks for the final four playoff teams:

1. Mike McKenzie - undrafted
2. Fred Thomas - undrafted
3. Charles Tillman - 2nd - 3rd
4. Nathan Vasher - 4th - 14th
5. Asante Samuel - 4th - 23rd
6. Ellis Hobbs - undrafted
7. Nick Harper - Undrafted
8. Marlin Jackson - 1st - 29th


I think the cornerback position is so overrated. I am not a fan of spending a high pick on a corner. I think there are other positions that can be addressed before you address the corner position.

I agree with everything you said...I don't want a CB in round 1! Fill it up with a big man or a LB. If Peterson falls to us then take him, otherwise wait to get a RB in round 2.

[jamze132]

I groaned you because I dont like you.

However.. I do think you're on to something.. He absolutely has starter potential and could be a good one at that.
So you groan people you don't like? Have you ever met him in person or is it just an internet hatred?

[SquishDaFish]

Its PAT being PAT

[patmoran2006]

So you groan people you don't like? Have you ever met him in person or is it just an internet hatred?
go back and see some of his comments in my posts, they are a hell of a lot worse than "I dont like you" and a lot more personal, i can assure of you that...I understand the Homers like to stick up for each other, but be objective

and on top of that, I STILL agreed with what he said.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Its PAT being PAT
http://pics.worldofautographs.com/julia%20sweeney%20pat%20SNL%20(jd).jpg

[patmoran2006]

You got me..

I was hoping my pic would never get out

[THATHURMANATOR]

I am hoping we do not go CB in the first.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I am hoping we do not go CB in the first.
I can't see how we don't pick a CB at 12.

[JoeMama]

I am hoping we do not go CB in the first.

I agree.

Though I tend to be skeptical about the team in general, I'm actually very comfortable with our prospects at cornerback.

So much so, I don't think cornerback is a pressing need in the first or even second round.

Ashton Youboty has all the measurables you want in a defensive back. His experience is limited but luckily, cornerback is a position that doesn't require a huge learning curve.

Kiwaukee Thomas is a Marlon Kerner/Ken Irvin clone with lots of experience as a backup - along with respectable measurables. I have a great deal of confidence that either he or Youboty can step up and make a fluid transition to starting cornerback.

And there's also Jabari Greer, who's been a consistent and dependable third cornerback over the past few years. While he's probably not starting material, he's a good backup to have in the fold.

So really, the main need I see is depth.

Maybe draft another prospect like Ashton Youboty with the pick we acquired for Willis McGahee - but focus on DT, LB, and RB with the first three picks.

As much as I agonize over this team, cornerback is not a position that greatly concerns me right now.

[patmoran2006]

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1717093/2/istockphoto_1717093_blind_people.jpg
I can't see how we don't pick a CB at 12.

[Meathead]

so pat if you were to go to the bathroom to go pee and while you were doing it needed to get your wallet would your hand be near your thigh or your ankle

[patmoran2006]

wow.. you really are a meathead

[Tatonka]

so pat if you were to go to the bathroom to go pee and while you were doing it needed to get your wallet would your hand be near your thigh or your ankle
ankle

[patmoran2006]

so pat if you were to go to the bathroom to go pee and while you were doing it needed to get your wallet would your hand be near your thigh or your ankle

http://www.robinallen.com/images/cb_defec4.jpg

[TigerJ]

Absolutely Youboty has to potential to be a very good starting corner in the NFL. I don't understand why so many draft pundits discount him completely. He' is something of an unknown since he was pretty raw coming out of Ohio State. For that reason, I think Buffalo would be wise to hedge their bet a bit by drafting a CB on day two, who might be able to start. But I really don't think they have to nab Leon Hall in round one to be OK at cornerback.

[PECKERWOOD]

I'm a little disappointed by how things went with Ashton last year. It's troubling to know that he did not get much game time experience and as a result it will probably set him back a little bit this year. I just want to see him pushed for the starting position by a solid veteran, maybe Kiwaukee Talkee is the man for the job.

[jamze132]

go back and see some of his comments in my posts, they are a hell of a lot worse than "I dont like you" and a lot more personal, i can assure of you that...I understand the Homers like to stick up for each other, but be objective

and on top of that, I STILL agreed with what he said.
Don't get all defensive guy, I don't really know who a homr is on here or not, I just thought it was kind of funny that you don't like someone who posts in the same board you do. Even though FTP says some off the wall **** and is always slamming Buffalo, I would still have a drink with the guy since I am sure most people's actions on a message board aren't their true selves. So relax.

[HAMMER]

[QUOTE=patmoran2006]I groaned you because I dont like you.

Thank God.

[Pride]

It doesnt matter how good our CB's are if we cannot pressure the QB or stop the run.

[justasportsfan]

O Cmon guys. that's the only way Moran can hurt you. What's he gonna do, neg you?

:snicker:

[patmoran2006]

O Cmon guys. that's the only way Moran can hurt you. What's he gonna do, neg you?

:snicker:
There's my..
http://offendall.com/shirts/stalker.jpg

[Statman]

Weaknesses: Recognition skills are below average. Remains too inconsistent in coverage. Gambles too often and will give up too many big plays consequently. He gives away his tendencies and got burnt for it on several occasions as a junior (see Minnesota and Texas games). Lacks ideal bulk and strength. Will have some more trouble taking on bigger blockers and taking down bigger runners in the NFL.
Those aren't good weaknesses to have and some of those aren't particularly correctable via coaching. Youboty's a smaller CB and his size isn't conducive to run support either. So he'll need to be a very, very good cover cornerback in order to become much more than merely an average player.

Unfortunately we saw little last season. Whether that's good or not remains to be seen.

[justasportsfan]

Thank God.

why did he quote me when I was talking to you?

[HAMMER]

Those aren't good weaknesses to have and some of those aren't particularly correctable via coaching. Youboty's a smaller CB and his size isn't conducive to run support either. So he'll need to be a very, very good cover cornerback in order to become much more than merely an average player.

Unfortunately we saw little last season. Whether that's good or not remains to be seen.

I just hope they don't go CB in Rd 1, give the kid a chance. We HAVE to strengthen our defense up the middle now. So I like Willis or Okoye at 12, RB in rd 2, WR in rd 3.

[ublinkwescore]

Good thread. This is actually similiar to our DT situation. We have a VERY talented prospect who didn't get on the field much as a rookie but spent a year in the system. We know someone needs to step up at the position, but we're not giving the previous prospects the chance to prove why they were a 1st round talent.

Of course I'm talking about Youboty and McCargo. Many of us here already want to draft a first round talent to replace a first round talent who hasn't been given his shot yet. Does that make football sense?

I understand our DT situation is more dire than CB, but I still don't think that justifies taking another one until the 3rd round. One could make the arguement that we're not replacing McCargo's side, but instead Williams/Anderson's side. To this, i would argue that having a bonafide MLB like Willis to complement Crowell and Spikes/Ellison would benefit us more than using a unproven player to replace Williams who did a solid job as it is as a rookie.

So basically I'm saying we shouldn't be drafting too high at either DT or LB until we give our other 1st round talents a legitimate shot.

Obviously, this cannot be said about RB, LB, and WR, which is why I think we should draft high at those positions first.

excellent post.

[X-Era]

I stole this post from Bagel at TBD, I thought it was excellent.

The player is described as follows:

5'11", 189, 4.43, Excellent college football program, Scout grade of 90 (Behind Leon Hall (95) and Darrelle Revis (91), tied with Aaron Ross)

Strengths: Possesses ideal height, adequate bulk and the frame to get bigger. Is a smooth and fluid athlete for his size. Possesses good top-end speed. He has long arms and good leaping ability to challenge for the ball in the air. He is intelligent and should be able to learn from his mistakes. He plays aggressively in run support. Fills hard, takes decent angles and has developed into a solid open field tackler. Shows playmaking instincts when the ball is in the air and he has outstanding ball skills. He has experience returning punts and shows NFL upside in that capacity.

Weaknesses: Recognition skills are below average. Remains too inconsistent in coverage. Gambles too often and will give up too many big plays consequently. He gives away his tendencies and got burnt for it on several occasions as a junior (see Minnesota and Texas games). Lacks ideal bulk and strength. Will have some more trouble taking on bigger blockers and taking down bigger runners in the NFL.

Overall: He played as a reserve defensive back in all 13 games of his true freshman season. He started nine of the 12 games that he played as a sophomore and finished with 61 tackles, four interceptions and 14 passes broken up. He started all 12 games as a junior and finished with 56 tackles, six TFL, one sack, one interception and nine PBU. He is an early entry prospect with loads of upside but also lots of room to improve. He possesses an outstanding combination of size, athletic ability and speed, and he also flashes playmaking skills as a man-to-man cover corner. However, he is inconsistent in terms of his technique and recognition skills in coverage, which leads to entirely too many big plays allowed on his watch. In short, he is by no means a finished product but he has the potential to develop into a shutdown cover corner in the NFL, which is why he could come off the draft board late in the first round.
___________________________

This is last year’s pre-draft profile of Ashton Youboty. Presumably, his two greatest deficiencies (1) inconsistent technique and (2) lack of bulk have been somewhat addressed in his first year with the Bills. Perhaps our hole at cornerback is not as deep as some fear. Give the brother a chance.

You stole my thunder. I just posted a similar comment. Youboty was talked about as a late round 1 pick.