Spikes' future won't be easy decision for Bills

[Don't Panic]

http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2007/03/bills-spikes-decision160307.html

"As of now, then, the Bills have Spikes, Angelo Crowell and second-year man Keith Ellison. With Spikes, that's a respectable group. Without him, though, it suddenly declines. Of course, it's almost a certainty that Buffalo will address the position during April's draft regardless of Spikes' future."

I truly hope Marv keeps him... there is no where else that we're going to spend the money, so why not give him the chance to show he's recovered.

[Carlton Bailey]

Yeah...I'd hope we at least keep Spikes thru camp. I'd hate to not give him a chance then see him go star for someone else.

[Mitchy moo]

Yeah...I'd hope we at least keep Spikes thru camp. I'd hate to not give him a chance then see him go star for someone else.

He had his chance last season, game over.

[njsue]

The Bills need Takeo Spikes "key" leadership for the young defensive players.

[Don't Panic]

He had his chance last season, game over.

Way to understand the recovery time on an injury, Skoob. Good to see you did your homework.

[patmoran2006]

Unless they get a deal they cant refuse, I dont see any benefit trading for Spikes..

Maybe he won't be that great player he was once. BUt I think you gotta give him a shot, especially considering the lack of vets on the defense.

I wouldnt trade him right now for a 3rd or 4th rounder.. If he gets back, he's a first round talent and would be more productive than any late 3rd rounder we'd draft.

Sometimes you gotta roll the dice. I think he's worth it right now. Its not like we're in cap trouble and if we cut him we'd take his money and sign a big time player anyway.. WE'd bascially be cutting Spikes for either a rookie or a "depth" FA signing anyway, so to cut him at this point I think is dumb.

[madness]

I think the fact that he's not traded yet with a bunch of teams needing LB help means Marv only has one trade in mind. Draft day could get pretty interesting.

[JoeMama]

He had his chance last season, game over.

Medically, it's impossible to return to peak form in one year.

The best example of why you don't give up on an LB one season removed from an achilles injury is Julian Peterson.

Simliar achilles injury.

Similar lackluster performance in first year following the injury.

Pro-bowler in second year following the injury.

If Takeo Spikes bombs out in 2007, then sure, maybe it's time to say "game over" - but at this point it's premature.

[HHURRICANE]

Way to understand the recovery time on an injury, Skoob. Good to see you did your homework.

In fairness to Skoob it's not looking good. Nobody wants to listen to me but his tear was very high so when you give me all of your success stories you might want to keep that in mind.

[patmoran2006]

There is no good reason to get him of now.. And the more we waited, the less he commands in trade value anyway, as teams are signing their FA LB's... I think it would be a horrible move to trade him right now, especially given the lack of vet leadership on this team.

This guy is one of the biggest gamers I've ever seen, he suffered a career threatening injury and he may or may not return to Pro Bowl form, but he's an investment worth waiting to see for this year.

I remember, and to me it was the peak of this team fan base passion, when he was with Cinci and played in the season finale here in BUffalo.. I remember the fans going NUTS for him holding up We want Spikes signs.

I especially remember him signing with us also. At the time, I was covering the team and I was at the press conference. This dude brought confidence and enthusiasm to the team IMMEDIATELY and it was no coincidence Buffalo had the #2 D in the NFL that year.

Anyways, I remember during the press conference him talking about what being a warrior is all about; and I really think he is one still.

Maybe I'm borrowing a page from others and being a "homer" with this topic, but I think he can still easily be a top 10 LB in the league, and I really think he's going to be like night and day compared to last year this time around.

[OpIv37]

He had his chance last season, game over.

and then who's going to play LB for us?

I don't understand why we're still talking about this. We have no one else to play LB, and there aren't any FA's left that would require Spikes' cap sace to sign (and I doubt we'll be signing anyone other than cheap back ups and camp fodder at this point anyway).

At the moment, we need Spikes. End of story.

[OpIv37]

It's as simple as this: Spikes at 80% is still in the top 15 or 20 LB's in the league and Spikes at 50% is better than anyone else on our roster or still available in FA (except June but we've shown no interest in him).

[ParanoidAndroid]

He was playing much better at the end of the season - noticeably so. If that is any foreshadowing, which I believe it is, then we let him play out his contract. He brought a lot to this team and he deserves it.

[SquishDaFish]

TKO is a special player. Top 10 easy. We as fans deserve to have him one more year to see if he can come back. IF not then cut ties next offseason. But we and he deserve 1 more season to see if he can recover. He is the type of player we need on this defense seeing al the youngsters we have on that D.

[JoeMama]

TKO is a special player. Top 10 easy. We as fans deserve to have him one more year to see if he can come back.

I agree.

The way I figure is look, Takeo Spikes would never quit on the Bills.

So there's no way - as a fan - that I'd quit on Takeo Spikes.

The guy's played his heart out in Buffalo despite many losing seasons.

You don't callously kick a guy like that to the curb.

He deserves a chance to recover.

[Don't Panic]

Spikes at 80% is still in the top 15 or 20 LB's in the league and Spikes at 50% is better than anyone else on our roster

I think Angelo Crowell would have something to say about that! Your point is valid, though. Spikes at less than 100% is better than any replacement that has been proposed (outside of the draft). Better than Willis? Tough call... maybe in 2007, but probably not long after that. Even with Spikes, we may need Willis in the fold as well. Depends on how OBD is feeling about Ellison these days.

[HHURRICANE]

It's as simple as this: Spikes at 80% is still in the top 15 or 20 LB's in the league and Spikes at 50% is better than anyone else on our roster or still available in FA (except June but we've shown no interest in him).

When you put it that way you are 100% right. Unless the Bills can't afford to keep him we should keep him on the roster at 50%. That's still the equivalent of a 200% Coy Wire.

[Saratoga Slim]

Whether or not his tear was a "high" one, I have a hard time believing that he's not going to be healthier than last year. And you know he's working his f-in tail off right now to get there.

Plus, he's such a unique personality and captivating leader, that I just don't think letting him go is worth the risk that he is in fact ready to play at a higher level than last year--and last year he was at worst an average linebacker. We can draft someone to replace his physical skills, but his intangibles are almost irreplaceable. He brings an instant identity to our defense, and few players in the league can offer that. The enormous potential upside of keeping him outwieghs the risk that he's physically washed up, and this is especially true when you look at the free agents that we'd have to choose from with the money we'd save by getting rid of him.

[OpIv37]

I think Angelo Crowell would have something to say about that! Your point is valid, though. Spikes at less than 100% is better than any replacement that has been proposed (outside of the draft). Better than Willis? Tough call... maybe in 2007, but probably not long after that. Even with Spikes, we may need Willis in the fold as well. Depends on how OBD is feeling about Ellison these days.

well I should have clarified- we have to play 3 LB's at a time, and Spikes at 50% is better than DiGiorgio, Stamer, Wire, or any of the scrubs that would have to come in and play for him.

[patmoran2006]

Let us not forget that it wasnt just the achilles that slowed him down last year.. He battled a hamstring problem as well, which could happen to anybody.

we saw what we can do on the first play of scrimmage this season when he drilled Tom Brady on a blitz and Fletcher picked the ball up and scored a touchdown.

This guy is NOT done and we'd be stupid to trade him unless its for an offer we cant refuse.. A third rounder is not that offer.

[Dr. Lecter]

Let us not forget that it wasnt just the achilles that slowed him down last year.. He battled a hamstring problem as well, which could happen to anybody.


True, but the achille's likely led to the hammy.

Regardless, trading him is a dumb idea unless the Bills get a 2nd or more. WGR reported he was a locker room problem, but that does not seem to fit especially if he told Dockery he liked it here.

[Jeff1220]

I agree with the majority of posters in this thread that TKO is too important to not give him the opportunity to show that he is recovered. I am pretty surprised with the overwhelming support for him. I was under the impression that most of the people on this board wanted him out. I'm glad my perception was wrong :up:

[patmoran2006]

Ive asked people in the know about Spikes in the locker room, and I havent heard a single bad thing about him there. He was frustrated with the losing, like almost everybody else.

[Dr. Lecter]

Ive asked people in the know about Spikes in the locker room, and I havent heard a single bad thing about him there. He was frustrated with the losing, like almost everybody else.

I would agree and that is one of the reasons I hate WGR. They spew more crap than people do here.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

bwb's title for this thread sums up how I see it: it won't be an easy decision for the Bills.

IMHO, the Bills MDs and coaches are going to be looking very closely at Spikes between now and Draft Day--because Spikes' health will determine his short-term future with the Bills and what they do in the draft.

As it stands, Spikes, who is going on 30, is going to make over $ 4 million this season, I believe, and is due to get $ 6 million in the last year of his contract next season. If the Bills keep Spikes this season, they are either going to have to give him an extension before next season or they will lose him (as a free agent at the end of the season next year or a salary cap casualty before that season or, if they are lucky, in a trade for a mid-round draft pick similar to the one that sent McGahee to Baltimore).

Every team that has successfully used a Tampa 2 defense has had a play-making LB--the better the play-maker, the better the defense has played. Right now, the Bills desperately need a play-making LB: Crowell and Ellison have shown some play-making ability, but neither looks to be capable of being a dominant, Brian Urlacher/Derrick Brooks-type of play-maker (Crowell could develop into a Shelton Quarles/Lance Briggs-type, maybe, and Ellison has the potential to become a Cato June-type, but none of those LBs were truly dominant, feared forces). Prior to his Achilles injury, Spikes was precisely the kind of play-making LB that the Bills need to make their defense successful. But, he hasn't shown that he can be that kind of LB again since his return.

If Spikes can return to his pre-injury form this season, he would be well worth the kind of money that the Bills are paying him this year and giving him an extension wouldn't be unreasonable, depending on how the bonuses were structured. A healthy, rejuvenated TKO would allow the Bills to draft a MLB that they would not have to throw into the deep end of the pool right away and flexibility in addressing their most obvious positions of need: DT, RB, LB, CB.

However, if the Bills MDs and coaches determine that it is doubtful that Spikes will ever return to his pre-injury form, then, OLB becomes an immediate priority--whether they trade Spikes or not and they are pretty much locked in with Crowell at MLB for the is coming season and probably part of next year as well. Instead of drafting P.Willis, B.Siler, D.Harris, they will have to focus on L.Timmons, R.Alexander, J.Beeson, etc. and make certain that they select the best play-maker that they possibly can get from that group. They will have no margin for error or opportunity to give the player that they draft time to develop or adjust to the pro game. This could also have a big impact on what the Bills do with their first round pick and radically alter their draft. If the Bills decide to let Spikes go--either as a cap casualty or in a trade--because they do not believe that he can be the play-maker that they need him to be for them this season, it could force them to use two of their draft picks on LBs.

Keeping Spikes beyond this season won't be cheap and he is approaching the age when OLBs generally begin to lose a step, so, if the Bills have any questions about whether Spikes can regain his pre-injury form, it might be in the team's best long-term interest to try to trade him for a first day draft pick while they still have the chance to do so--he will be much harder to deal and they are likely to get less for him after this coming season when he will be entering the last year of his current contract. On the other hand, if it looks like he can bounce back and be the dominating play-maker that they need and that he once was, keeping him will buy them time to find a player to replace him: they could look to draft an OLB with play-making potential in next year's draft and give him a year to get his feet wet instead of being forced to take one this year and, perhaps, have to get a major contribution from this season in order for the team to be competitive.

It all depends on how the Bills see Spikes' chances of returning to his pre-injury form this season.

As bwb said, it won't be an easy decision for the Bills to make. As I see it, a lot will depend on what the MDs say and, then, perhaps, on whether the Bills are able to deal him for a decent return should they decide that the prognosis isn't that good.

I like Spikes. And, I hope that he can return to be the kind of dominant force that the Bills need for him to be. But, having said that, if the Bills decide that it is too risky to keep him and in the best interests of the team to trade him, I won't be upset--even if he has a great season elsewhere--because, at his age and with present contract situation and his recent injury history, there is a lot of risk in keeping him and it is going to be a tough call either way.

[patmoran2006]

I would agree and that is one of the reasons I hate WGR. They spew more crap than people do here.
Well I can tell you this from personal experience.. If you want to listen to beat reporters from WGR (Morrison, etc) then that is one thing.

But guys like Schoop and the Bulldog are NOT in the locker room after games.. rarely if EVER. Radio people like WRG send in guys with mics and have sound bytes, but it isnt the radio personalities you hear on the air 24/7 asking the questions.

At most they will go to the post-game press conferences in the media room.. Guys like Schoop and The Bulldog DONT go in the locker room after games.. and the same with Howard Simon.

So if you hear some **** about a guy being a cancer in the locker room, I can assure you they dont know for themselves; they heard it from somewhere else.

The locker room is filled after games with writers and TV guys (Peck, Kilgore, Murph, Dennis Williams,etc). NOt radio..

believe what someone like Jerry Sullivan says before Howard Simon.. Because Sullivan might be an ass to the team and a lot of fans, but at least he's around there ALL the time.

[justasportsfan]

IMO, we assess Spikes at OTA's and camp. Marv already stated the docs are on top of it. If he turns out to be healthy and ready to go, we keep him unless someone makes a huge offer for him . If healthy, he should easily get back to form and will be our 2007 problem just as Briggs is to the bears now.

Anything can change in one year though. Spikes can change his mind and want to stay.

[Dr. Lecter]

I won't listen to Sullivan because he is such an ass and *****es and complains more than even you do. And he is half as smart.

[patmoran2006]

lol but my point is Jerry Sullivan actually is in the know, he is the ***** in the locker room ASKING those kinds of questions.. while guys like Howard Simon are the ones on the air talking the ****..

There is nothing players hate more than when someone in the media talks **** about them on the air and isnt in the locker room after games. SUllivan is there, Simon is not..

Remember the sabres about six years ago. Remember how DOug Gilmour wanted to rip Robitaille's head off because he was always mouthing off from the studio without ever being around the locker room..

Few players like Sullivan, and Im sure they shouldnt, I wouldnt either.. But if nothing else they respect guys like him because at least he is visible to them in locker room, post game, practices etc to be accountable for what he writes.

[Jeff1220]

If healthy, he should easily get back to form and will be our 2007 problem just as Briggs is to the bears now.

That makes me think, Briggs wants out of Chicago - badly. If the Bills could trade a healthy Spikes packaged with a pick, do you make that trade (even with his obvious leadership value - and would Briggs' leadership match Spikes')?

[Dr. Lecter]

The sad part is that Simon and Schoop were good and reasonable while on WNSA. And then they go on WGR and became crap.

Jeff Morrisonis the best, but they ignore him when he disputes their claims.

And many Sabres wanted to ***** slap Robitaille. Especially Rob Ray.

[patmoran2006]

They wanted to *****slap Robitaille because they didnt respect him.. He trashed them a lot yet never showed his face, he did it from the cozy confines of the Adelphia Cable studios..

Same thing with the radio guys..

Thats what I was saying about Sullivan; he's at least respected in the locker rooms even without being liked.. Most atheltes dont like columnists, but they generally respect them for being held accountable.

Cept for Dominik Hasek of course, who fought with Jim Kelley (the writer)..I was not only there for that, I was one of thepeople caught in the middle!!!!!!!! I was writing for a little publication called "Niagara Sports and Leisure" - well its called that now at the time it was actually Queen City Sports, we were playing Ottawa, Kelly kinda accused Hasek of being unwilling to play hurt and bam! there they go.

[Illmatic15]

Troy Vincent, London Fletcher, Nate Clements, Fat Pat Williams, Lawyer Milloy, those were TKOs best friends and they are all gone. There goes all the vet leadership, I feel sorry for him and dont blame him for being mad it thats the case...

[kernowboy]

If we do keep him, I see Dan Connor from Penn St high up the list of desired players come draft day 2008

If we draft a DT (Okoye) RB/FB (Leonard) and WR (Gonzalez) this year I can quite easily seeing only 2 picks on Day1 next year with us packaging our R2 and 2x R3 together to get back into the 1st.

If those two R1'08 picks turn out to be Steve Slaton/Ray Rice and Dan Connor we could go all the way