You have to love the moves on OL.

[HHURRICANE]

Peters, Dockery and Fowler make an above average line. I'm not sold on Walker but with Butler, Merz, Preston, Pennington and Whittle all available to play the right side we certainly have enough competition to make that side better than it's ever been.

The OL is better and that means that the whole Offense is better.

So before we freak out about the impact signings that the Jets and Pats have made let's not forget that they already had OLs. We just got ours after being mismnaged for 7 years. Be patient.

Plus Miami still sucks.

[Don't Panic]

As an aside to this, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if A-Train is the starting back behind that line. The logic is that a guy of Thomas' ability can churn out 4+ ypc behind that line, so why invest anything more right now, especially if there's no sure thing out there? That's why I hope we grab Leonard. Give A-Train a compliment back there who can do some different types of things and see how they do together. Next year, go feature back and let him follow Leonard blocks. Not to mention what all of this does for freeing up our TEs (come one Everett... time to do something).

[Philagape]

I'm still open to grabbing a right guard in the second round if available. Then our line could be sick, making everyone else on the offense better, as you said.

[Don't Panic]

I'm still open to grabbing a right guard in the second round if available. Then our line could be sick, making everyone else on the offense better, as you said.

I wouldn't be opposed to that... 2nd or 3rd to make it devoid of major weakness... sound slike a great idea. Still crossing my fingers on Walker, though.

[THATHURMANATOR]

We have too many holes to pick Olinemen on day one IMO... Preston/Merz/Whittle may the best man win.

While I wouldn't be suprized if Atrain is named "starter" I can't imagine there wouldn't be a day 1 rookie that will be splitting time with him.

[Jersey1031]

I'm still open to grabbing a right guard in the second round if available. Then our line could be sick, making everyone else on the offense better, as you said.


Didn't last years draft of OL late for us end up paying off? Why use up a 2nd for quality we can still get later on?

[THATHURMANATOR]

I look at Walker like this. Pennington was actually playing fairly decent last year. Marv and Co. obviously think that Walker is a better player otherwise why give him that kind of cash? Sounds good to me. Our line could be a strength this year rather than the crushing weakness it has been for the last decade.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Didn't last years draft of OL late for us end up paying off? Why use up a 2nd for quality we can still get later on?
Agreed.

[Philagape]

Preston/Merz/Whittle

That's a hole.

[justasportsfan]

I'm still open to grabbing a right guard in the second round if available. Then our line could be sick, making everyone else on the offense better, as you said.
we now have more pressing neeeds than OL.

They way things are now, the Ol is no longer our weakness.

Been wanting to say that for years.

[HHURRICANE]

We almost have to draft Willis at #12. To take a RB there is way too much of a luxury. I believe our #2 pick will be RB and than we will go DT and DE until the 5th. Everyone forgets that Denney is in his last year and they are going to want to develop a younger player at DE. OL is going to be a very late pick up, if at all.

We might even draft 2 RBs.

[Don't Panic]

I feel the same about Willis... he is looking more and more like the pick with each passing day.

[Philagape]

Didn't last years draft of OL late for us end up paying off? Why use up a 2nd for quality we can still get later on?

Did it pay off? Only because the linemen we had either sucked or got hurt. They got into the game by default. Doesn't mean they're the answer. Signing Walker means the Bills obviously think Pennington isn't sufficient. Same for Whittle.

Quality players can be found in later rounds for many positions. For example, we got Kyle Williams in the fifth, so why draft a DT early? We got Ellison in the sixth, so why draft a LB early?
Until there's a crystal ball that says who the bargains and busts will be, there's a reason players are projected to go in the second round, and that's being expected to be better than those projected for the lower rounds. And that goes for all positions.

[Philagape]

we now have more pressing neeeds than OL.

They way things are now, the Ol is no longer our weakness.

Been wanting to say that for years.

They'll have to play some games for anyone to know if they're a strength or weakness. Dockery's the only proven upgrade; I have no reason to believe the right side is any better.

[justasportsfan]

They'll have to play some games for anyone to know if they're a strength or weakness. Dockery's the only proven upgrade; I have no reason to believe the right side is any better.


so would anyone we draft regardless of position which is why I'm opposed to drafting OL in the first rd. Most OL players take years to develop. Merz, Pennington and Butler are already ahead of any OL in the 2nd rd.

We've dished out a ton of $$ on the guards this year.

McNally and Marv think they can always find one in the later rds.

[Jersey1031]

Did it pay off? Only because the linemen we had either sucked or got hurt. They got into the game by default. Doesn't mean they're the answer. Signing Walker means the Bills obviously think Pennington isn't sufficient. Same for Whittle.



so would anyone we draft regardless of position which is why I'm opposed to drafting OL in the first rd. Most OL players take years to develop. Merz, Pennington and Butler are already ahead of any OL in the 2nd rd.

McNally and Marv think they can always find one in the later rds.


They were rookies last year. What do you want, Pro Bowl in their first years??

[Philagape]

They were rookies last year. What do you want, Pro Bowl in their first years??

You said they paid off.

[Jersey1031]

You said they paid off.


They made the team, first of all. And they were all starting at some point or getting some good time... What else do you want?

[Jersey1031]

you might want to read the entire thread. I'm not complaining about the OL.


No, I was agreeing with what you said. That was to Philagape.

[justasportsfan]

No, I was agreeing with what you said. That was to Philagape.
got it. deleted that post. :oops:

[Jersey1031]

got it. deleted that post. :oops:

No worries.

[Philagape]

They made the team, first of all. And they were all starting at some point or getting some good time... What else do you want?

To do well and make the line more effective?

Have our standards sunk so low that when the most we can say about a player is he started, that's a good thing?

[Jersey1031]

Have our standards sunk so low that when the most we can say about a player is he started, that's a good thing?


Players need experience before they play well. Last year our young OL gained a lot of experience.

[patmoran2006]

I look at Walker like this. Pennington was actually playing fairly decent last year. Marv and Co. obviously think that Walker is a better player otherwise why give him that kind of cash? Sounds good to me. Our line could be a strength this year rather than the crushing weakness it has been for the last decade.
Agreed.. If nothing else our OL is no longer a glaring weakness like it has been. If Walker actually plays well then we have a very formidable OL

[Philagape]

Players need experience before they play well. Last year our young OL gained a lot f experience.

But it doesn't mean they will play well. Some players just stay career backups. I'm not saying ours will go either way, but I don't assume they're the answer.

[justasportsfan]

But it doesn't mean they will play well..


the same goes for a 2nd rd OL pick.

[Philagape]

Let me put it this way. I feel better about ...

-- Spikes, Crowell, Ellison at LB;
-- Price, Reed at 2nd WR;
-- Williams, Tripplett, McCargo at DT;
-- McGee, Youboty, Thomas at CB;
-- A-Train and a rookie at RB

... than I do about Whittle/Preston/Merz/Butler at RG.

That's not to say all of the above couldn't use an upgrade. But as Hurricane said, the line makes the whole offense better. It needs to be high on the priority list.

[Philagape]

the same goes for a 2nd rd OL pick.

Or any pick in the draft at any position.

[justasportsfan]

Or any pick in the draft at any position.which is why I'd rather take someone else in the 2nd rd. An OL from the 2nd rd. isn't gonna be able to do anything in his first year as compared to let's say, a rb or LB'er or cb.

That OL you want in the 2nd rd. is gonna be on the bench because everyone else on the team has already experience and know the O better than a rookie.

[Philagape]

which is why I'd rather take someone else in the 2nd rd. An OL from the 2nd rd. isn't gonna be able to do anything in his first year as compared to let's say, a rb or LB'er or cb.

That OL you want in the 2nd rd. is gonna be on the bench because everyone else on the team has already experience and know the O better than a rookie.

Our seventh-round rookie tackle became a starter. I'm not going to assume anything.

[justasportsfan]

Our seventh-round rookie tackle became a starter.I'm not going to assume anything .

you're actually assuming that an OL from the 2nd rd. can come in and contribute right away ahead of that 7th rd. that has had starting experience.

[Philagape]

LT - Marcus McNeill, San Diego Chargers . The 6-7, 337-pound McNeill, a second-round choice from Auburn, had an outstanding rookie year. He started 16 games, allowed a meager five sacks and garnered offensive rookie of the year consideration for having a near-flawless first season playing the O-line's toughest position.

LG - Daryn Colledge, Green Bay Packers . A key member of one of the league's stingiest offensive lines, Colledge started 15 games, surrendered only 2½ sacks and was charged with six penalties. At just 299 pounds, the quick Colledge proved himself as a great second-round value pick for Green Bay.

C - Nick Mangold, New York Jets . The 29th overall pick in the draft was flawless in his first season. Mangold, who was a standout at Ohio State, started all 16 regular-season games for the playoff-bound Jets, took three penalties and gave up ½ sack. The 300-pounder should hear his name called for plenty of All-Pro lists in the future.

RG - Jahri Evans, New Orleans Saints . Somehow Evans, a rookie from little-known Bloomsburg University, has received almost no recognition for being a stud on New Orleans' O-line. Much like Mangold, the fourth-rounder started all 16 games for a playoff team and gave up ½ sack. Where was his Pro Bowl nod?

RT - Jeremy Trueblood, Tampa Bay Buccaneers . The 6-8, 315-pound second-rounder from Boston College had a decent year on a bad Buccaneers offense, allowing six sacks and taking 10 penalties in 15 games. He was among few rookie right tackles to make impacts this past year.

http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2007/01/nfl-all-rookie050107.html

[Philagape]

you're actually assuming that an OL from the 2nd rd. can come in and contribute right away ahead of that 7th rd. that has had starting experience.

Pennington's already been displaced by Walker.

You're talking like it's unheard of for a rookie to beat out an incumbent.

[YardRat]

I'd feel a lot better if Walker were moved inside to guard, but if Levy/Jauron/McNally feel he's an upgrade over Pennington at RT I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

[justasportsfan]

LT - Marcus McNeill, San Diego Chargers . The 6-7, 337-pound McNeill, a second-round choice from Auburn, had an outstanding rookie year. He started 16 games, allowed a meager five sacks and garnered offensive rookie of the year consideration for having a near-flawless first season playing the O-line's toughest position.

LG - Daryn Colledge, Green Bay Packers . A key member of one of the league's stingiest offensive lines, Colledge started 15 games, surrendered only 2½ sacks and was charged with six penalties. At just 299 pounds, the quick Colledge proved himself as a great second-round value pick for Green Bay.

C - Nick Mangold, New York Jets . The 29th overall pick in the draft was flawless in his first season. Mangold, who was a standout at Ohio State, started all 16 regular-season games for the playoff-bound Jets, took three penalties and gave up ½ sack. The 300-pounder should hear his name called for plenty of All-Pro lists in the future.

RG - Jahri Evans, New Orleans Saints . Somehow Evans, a rookie from little-known Bloomsburg University, has received almost no recognition for being a stud on New Orleans' O-line. Much like Mangold, the fourth-rounder started all 16 games for a playoff team and gave up ½ sack. Where was his Pro Bowl nod?

RT - Jeremy Trueblood, Tampa Bay Buccaneers . The 6-8, 315-pound second-rounder from Boston College had a decent year on a bad Buccaneers offense, allowing six sacks and taking 10 penalties in 15 games. He was among few rookie right tackles to make impacts this past year.

http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2007/01/nfl-all-rookie050107.html


would you want me to pull out all the list of all the rookie lb's , rb's and cb's that have contributed in their first year? (ctually you know I'm not gonna do it :D ) These positions are a bigger need than OL right now.

For every one on that list , there's always a Mike Williams too.

I'd rather even grab a wr over a OL . I think we're done with the OL after everything we just spent.

I'd be pissed if we grabbed an OL in the 2nd.

[HHURRICANE]

I'd feel a lot better if Walker were moved inside to guard, but if Levy/Jauron/McNally feel he's an upgrade over Pennington at RT I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

Yeah, OBD must see something we don't. Although we were all posting Peters at LT and they finally listenined 8 games into the season.

Yeah, Walker at RG with Whittle as the backup and Butler and Pennington fighting it out for RT seems better. I think fans would feel better about it as well.

[Elminster]

would you want me to pull out all the list of all the rookie lb's , rb's and cb's that have contributed in their first year? (ctually you know I'm not gonna do it :D ) These positions are a bigger need than OL right now.

For every one on that list , there's always a Mike Williams too.

I'd rather even grab a wr over a OL . I think we're done with the OL after everything we just spent.

I'd be pissed if we grabbed an OL in the 2nd.
He ought to look at Denver's offensive line. The only problem anyone has with them is where they were picked. It's ok people...this is the MARV era. Our late-round picks don't automatically suck like in the Butler and Donahoe eras! Ok, in the former, they ALL tended to suck, but....anyways...

OL shouldn't be a priority any longer. Let's get the defense some love so Fewell doesn't jump off the Jumbotron in protest....

[Philagape]

would you want me to pull out all the list of all the rookie lb's , rb's and cb's that have contributed in their first year? (ctually you know I'm not gonna do it :D ) These positions are a bigger need than OL right now.

For every one on that list , there's always a Mike Williams too.


I knew that would be your reply. All positions, all rounds have busts and slow developers. All I did was take your statement that rookie OL can't contribute and blow it out of the water.

And as I listed earlier, I think RG is as big a need as any position. And we do have a lot of them.

[redsoxkick101]

adding a lot of of new ol is going to take time for everyone to click.

[justasportsfan]

Pennington's already been displaced by Walker.

You're talking like it's unheard of for a rookie to beat out an incumbent.

so you are making assumptions that a rookie can come in and beat an incumbent.

If the Ol was a huge hole then I waould agree. It isn't right now. Whether you think what was done in FA isn't enough, at least it's been addressed.


Stopping he run has not been addressed in any way shape or form. It's gonna be an even bigger problem if Spikes never get's back to form.

[Philagape]

so you are making assumptions that a rookie can come in and beat an incumbent.

At RG, I think there's a good chance. What good is a draft if we don't give rookies a chance to start? I would think any guy drafted in at least the first two rounds should have high expectations.


If the Ol was a huge hole then I waould agree. It isn't right now. Stopping the run has not been addressed yet .

There are other rounds too ... We got Kyle Williams in the fifth :D

[justasportsfan]

At RG, I think there's a good chance. What good is a draft if we don't give rookies a chance to start? I would think any guy drafted in at least the first two rounds should have high expectations.



There are other rounds too ... We got Kyle Williams in the fifth :D

The bigger question is that what is our biggest hole. It's the running (rb) and stopping the run.

And how did Kyle do in stopping the run? The Ol was better in the 2nd half of last years season even with what we had. We supposedly upgrade it with talent.

THe run D didn't get any better in the 2nd half of the season and still ahsn't been upgraded .

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

No more OL for me in the 1st day.

[Philagape]

I've had Willis as my first pick all along, and I think we can get a productive RB in the third. If all goes right, four first-day picks can accomplish a lot.

[HHURRICANE]

The Bills made all of the moves that they can afford to make on the OL. We have to addres RB and LB early. I could even make the case for 2 LBs and 2 RBs with our first 4 picks.