Our defense will be better than last year's

[Mr. Miyagi]

I don't care if we lost Clements and Fletcher. Mark my words our defense this year will be better than last year's.

1) We all know Clements is overrated. He gambled too much and costed us some games. Without him we're better off.

2) Fletcher was good for us but lost his speed a lot last year. Our young guys will step in and replace him just fine.

3) Another offseason for TKO to heal. He should be close to 100% when the season begins. That is, if he's still with us.

4) All the rookies have had a whole season under their belt - Whitner, Simpson, Williams, Ellison, even Youboty has more experience than he did last year. They'll continue to develop but they had to have improved from last season.

5) Second continuous season in the same scheme. Less confusion and memorization and more instintive and reactive.

6) Whoever we draft will add talent to our D.

I damn near guarantee our D will be better than last year's. Of course continuous improvement is always a good thing, but by no means the sky is falling because we didn't get Lance Briggs or Cato June.

[Devin]

Homer!!!

j/k to be honest I kind of agree, while I will wait till the draft to see how that shakes out since Marv is smarter then all of us.....by the looks of it combined........i trust his judgement.

[Meathead]

the biggest thing will be a second year in the system. that will make a big difference

[OpIv37]

I don't care if we lost Clements and Fletcher. Mark my words our defense this year will be better than last year's.

1) We all know Clements is overrated. He gambled too much and costed us some games. Without him we're better off.

2) Fletcher was good for us but lost his speed a lot last year. Our young guys will step in and replace him just fine.

3) Another offseason for TKO to heal. He should be close to 100% when the season begins. That is, if he's still with us.

4) All the rookies have had a whole season under their belt - Whitner, Simpson, Williams, Ellison, even Youboty has more experience than he did last year. They'll continue to develop but they had to have improved from last season.

5) Second continuous season in the same scheme. Less confusion and memorization and more instintive and reactive.

6) Whoever we draft will add talent to our D.

I damn near guarantee our D will be better than last year's. Of course continuous improvement is always a good thing, but by no means the sky is falling because we didn't get Lance Briggs or Cato June.

1) I agree that Clements is way overrated. But Youboty has no game experience and K Thomas has ZERO career interceptions. Overrated or not, he's still better than anyone else we have (or may be able to get before the season starts) by far. In time, Youboty MAY be better, but he certainly won't be this year.

2) We're short on LB's, Ellison was mediocre last year... like Clements, I think Fletch can be replaced but at the moment we don't have anyone capable of doing it.

3) TKO could go either way- I hope they don't trade him.

4) The rookies should improve but it's asking too much for 1 year of experience alone to help the 27th ranked run D become good enough.

5) People read too much into this. Football players are football players- they know the game and they know what they're supposed to do.

6) We drafted talent last year and our D still sucked- rookies take time to develop. Plus, all of our opponents get to draft too, so they'll be adding talent as well.

The sky isn't falling because we didn't get Briggs or June. The sky is falling because a) we lost two starters and found no replacements other than the guys who weren't good enough to take their jobs last year and b) our D sucked last year and we added NO ONE, nothing, nada, zilch. You can't do the same thing over and over again and expect different results each time. Right now, our D is worse than it was last year and that's a scary prospect.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Right now, our D is worse than it was last year and that's a scary prospect.
I don't care about RIGHT NOW because RIGHT NOW we're not playing any games. RIGHT NOW we haven't drafted new talent, nor gone through training camp to jell, nor come together to play through the entire season. By the end of the season, our D will be ranked higher than last year because I think what we lost in two players is less than what we've gained in experience in players and system and what the draft will bring. By no means I'm saying we're top 10 D this year, but we'll be better than last year's.

Let's put 10,000 zbs on it if you like. :shake:

[JPFBillsFan]

I agree 99%
my only sticking point is if Spikes is veiwed as a cancer than he has to go..

[OpIv37]

I don't care about RIGHT NOW because RIGHT NOW we're not playing any games. RIGHT NOW we haven't drafted new talent, nor gone through training camp to jell, nor come together to play through the entire season. By the end of the season, our D will be ranked higher than last year because I think what we lost in two players is less than what we've gained in experience in players and system and what the draft will bring. By no means I'm saying we're top 10 D this year, but we'll be better than last year's.

Let's put 10,000 zbs on it if you like. :shake:

I'll put the 10k on it but we have to define what constitutes better- are we talking points, rush yards, overall yards or defensive ranking? If you go defensive ranking or overall yards, or rush D ranking I'll take it.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Oh and don't forget 7) we get McCargo back.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I'll put the 10k on it but we have to define what constitutes better- are we talking points, rush yards, overall yards or defensive ranking? If you go defensive ranking or overall yards, or rush D ranking I'll take it.
Total D or rush D, doesn't matter.

[TigerJ]

The way I look at is, the things you listed are "ifs." It's possible everyone of them will happen as advertized. It's also possible Youboty will stink, they young guys won't be an adequate replacement for Fletcher, TKO will never be the player he once was, last year's rookies will all have sophomore slumps, the defensive system will break down and everyone we draft turns out to be a bust. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle, though we all hope reality ends up being closer to your rosy outlook than my Murphy's Law scenario.

The job of the Bills between now and the start of the season is to assess which are the biggest risks on your list and do what they can reasonably do to minimize or reverse them. Some of them we'll not be able to do anything about and we'll just have to hope for the best, but hopefully that won't be true for all of them.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I'm just trying to take the positive stand and balance out some of the sky-is-falling negative nancies out there on the board. :miyagi:

[Jeff1220]

I agree that they'll improve on D, but that's not much of a stretch - it's not hard to be better than 27th.
I think other variables will help the D though. The number 1 thing that will help this D will be an improved offense. Keep the D off the field and keep them defending a lead, and I think that helps from a planning and mental perspective.

[patmoran2006]

I don't care if we lost Clements and Fletcher. Mark my words our defense this year will be better than last year's.

1) We all know Clements is overrated. He gambled too much and costed us some games. Without him we're better off.

2) Fletcher was good for us but lost his speed a lot last year. Our young guys will step in and replace him just fine.

3) Another offseason for TKO to heal. He should be close to 100% when the season begins. That is, if he's still with us.

4) All the rookies have had a whole season under their belt - Whitner, Simpson, Williams, Ellison, even Youboty has more experience than he did last year. They'll continue to develop but they had to have improved from last season.

5) Second continuous season in the same scheme. Less confusion and memorization and more instintive and reactive.

6) Whoever we draft will add talent to our D.

I damn near guarantee our D will be better than last year's. Of course continuous improvement is always a good thing, but by no means the sky is falling because we didn't get Lance Briggs or Cato June.

1- Even if Clements is "overated' he is still miles better than Kiwaukee Thomas or Ashton Youboty. That's not even comparison, come on now.

2- What young guys are you referring to, to replace Fletcher? If you count Crowell as Fletcher's replacement, that leaves Ellison (See #3 about Spikes). That leaves depth containing Coy Wire and Mario Haggans.. that's real sad.

3- Spike will not be with Buffalo come draft day, I am willing to bet on it. I wish I was wrong though, what a stupid economics trade this will be.


4- AGreed. Rookies have a season under belt. I expect a hell of a lot more now from Whitner being the 8th overall pick--time to justify it and show your not just another decent safety, as well as Simpson, Kyle Williams and especially McCargo.

5- AGreed. Same scheme being more familar helps for sure.

6- Yes. Draft early and add talent on defense. The downside is it will come at the expense of having a mediocre offense. Teams know Lee Evans now, they will double the hell out of him, we have no legit #2 not to mention anybody scary at RB.

[justasportsfan]

I agree . We'll be better.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I agree that they'll improve on D, but that's not much of a stretch - it's not hard to be better than 27th.
I think other variables will help the D though. The number 1 thing that will help this D will be an improved offense. Keep the D off the field and keep them defending a lead, and I think that helps from a planning and mental perspective.
Actually our RUN D was ranked 28th. Our TOTAL D was 18th.

[patmoran2006]

Better as in a good defense?

Or better as in better than last year? which if is the case that doesnt mean ****.. Our defense was awful last year; how could it not be better?

[Mr. Miyagi]

1- Even if Clements is "overated' he is still miles better than Kiwaukee Thomas or Ashton Youboty. That's not even comparison, come on now.

2- What young guys are you referring to, to replace Fletcher? If you count Crowell as Fletcher's replacement, that leaves Ellison (See #3 about Spikes). That leaves depth containing Coy Wire and Mario Haggans.. that's real sad.

3- Spike will not be with Buffalo come draft day, I am willing to bet on it. I wish I was wrong though, what a stupid economics trade this will be.


4- AGreed. Rookies have a season under belt. I expect a hell of a lot more now from Whitner being the 8th overall pick--time to justify it and show your not just another decent safety, as well as Simpson, Kyle Williams and especially McCargo.

5- AGreed. Same scheme being more familar helps for sure.

6- Yes. Draft early and add talent on defense. The downside is it will come at the expense of having a mediocre offense. Teams know Lee Evans now, they will double the hell out of him, we have no legit #2 not to mention anybody scary at RB.
So you want in on the bet too? I'll singlehandedly bankrupt all the negative fans around here. Who else?

[Mr. Miyagi]

Better as in a good defense?

Or better as in better than last year? which if is the case that doesnt mean ****.. Our defense was awful last year; how could it not be better?
What is the title of this thread? A "good defense" is subjective. Better than last year is measurable.

Looking for a way out already?

[OpIv37]

Total D or rush D, doesn't matter.

I'll take total D, in terms of yards given up (not ranking).

Deal?

[Mr. Miyagi]

I'll take total D, in terms of yards given up (not ranking).

Deal?
We were 8th in total D yards given up last year, not 27th as you said. You know that right?

Total Defensive ranking is the bet, which we were 18th in last year.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Damn you guys did you know we were 10th in points allowed last year? Why is everyone *****ing?

[Jeff1220]

Damn you guys did you know we were 10th in points allowed last year? Why is everyone *****ing?

I got somewhat frustrated with long drives by the opponents late in the game, but I've always said, as long as they keep them out of the end zone, I could care less how many yards are amassed against the D between the 20s.

[justasportsfan]

Damn you guys did you know we were 10th in points allowed last year? Why is everyone *****ing?


that's an improvement over the year before , therfore they can't ***** about it so they find a way and this time it's total yards allowed.

OP , I'll take that bet. 10K that we will have they won't run as much (total yards) against our D as they did last year. Deal?

[Mr. Miyagi]

Justa you're talking total rush D? I'll go with that too.

[ShadowHawk7]

I don't care if we lost Clements and Fletcher. Mark my words our defense this year will be better than last year's.

1) We all know Clements is overrated. He gambled too much and costed us some games. Without him we're better off.

2) Fletcher was good for us but lost his speed a lot last year. Our young guys will step in and replace him just fine.

3) Another offseason for TKO to heal. He should be close to 100% when the season begins. That is, if he's still with us.

4) All the rookies have had a whole season under their belt - Whitner, Simpson, Williams, Ellison, even Youboty has more experience than he did last year. They'll continue to develop but they had to have improved from last season.

5) Second continuous season in the same scheme. Less confusion and memorization and more instintive and reactive.

6) Whoever we draft will add talent to our D.

I damn near guarantee our D will be better than last year's. Of course continuous improvement is always a good thing, but by no means the sky is falling because we didn't get Lance Briggs or Cato June.
Seems like a rather homeristic post to me, but I can agree with this. We can't get much worse anyways..

[OpIv37]

We were 8th in total D yards given up last year, not 27th as you said. You know that right?

Total Defensive ranking is the bet, which we were 18th in last year.

we were 27th in run D, if I left out the run part, my bad.

I'll take total defensive ranking.

[OpIv37]

that's an improvement over the year before , therfore they can't ***** about it so they find a way and this time it's total yards allowed.

OP , I'll take that bet. 10K that we will have they won't run as much (total yards) against our D as they did last year. Deal?

10 k on total run yards, 2006 v 2007? Deal.

[feelthepain]

I don't care if we lost Clements and Fletcher. Mark my words our defense this year will be better than last year's.

1) We all know Clements is overrated. He gambled too much and costed us some games. Without him we're better off.

2) Fletcher was good for us but lost his speed a lot last year. Our young guys will step in and replace him just fine.

3) Another offseason for TKO to heal. He should be close to 100% when the season begins. That is, if he's still with us.

4) All the rookies have had a whole season under their belt - Whitner, Simpson, Williams, Ellison, even Youboty has more experience than he did last year. They'll continue to develop but they had to have improved from last season.

5) Second continuous season in the same scheme. Less confusion and memorization and more instintive and reactive.

6) Whoever we draft will add talent to our D.

I damn near guarantee our D will be better than last year's. Of course continuous improvement is always a good thing, but by no means the sky is falling because we didn't get Lance Briggs or Cato June.


Well it's good to know the Bills are allowed to improve. Even if much of your opinion is speculative. And BTW...it's tough to get any worse, especially your run D.

[justasportsfan]

10 k on total run yards, 2006 v 2007? Deal.


they ran a total of 2254 yds against us last season.

I say they don't achieve that. Deal is on even if they start bringing in more FA's < draft or make trades, okay?


They ran more against us last year compared to 2006 but I didn't take into account the strength of schedule we faced in 2006 compared to 2005.

[mysticsoto]

10 k on total run yards, 2006 v 2007? Deal.

Op, that's a bad bet for you. Kyle Williams and McCargo are bound to get more playing time and be better than last year now that they've had time to understand what a cover 2 expects from them and how they need to be responsible for their lanes. If we get Patrick Willis, we have a faster LB than Fletcher could ever hope to be. Whitner is more experienced and apparently more buff than last year and the entire defense has had a year to grow, as well as understand and become accustomed to what the cover 2 wants from them. I know you tend to be negative, but you are letting your negativity blind you here.

[OpIv37]

Op, that's a bad bet for you. Kyle Williams and McCargo are bound to get more playing time and be better than last year now that they've had time to understand what a cover 2 expects from them and how they need to be responsible for their lanes. If we get Patrick Willis, we have a faster LB than Fletcher could ever hope to be. Whitner is more experienced and apparently more buff than last year and the entire defense has had a year to grow, as well as understand and become accustomed to what the cover 2 wants from them. I know you tend to be negative, but you are letting your negativity blind you here.

and you're letting your homerism blind you. McCargo lost most of his rookie season so he's going to need more time to develop, plus he's had the same injury two years in a row. Safeties in the cover 2 don't do much in run support, and at the moment we DON'T have Patrick Willis- even if we get him he's going to be a rookie who makes rookie mistakes. We have the same crap DL, no DE run support and inexperienced CB's to come up and help on runs to the outside, and now no experience at MLB to back up that crappy DL.

Sorry, but one year of experience isn't enough to take the 27th ranked run D that lost two starters and make it formidable.

[gr8slayer]

It will be hard to be much worse on Defense.

[gr8slayer]

Well it's good to know the Bills are allowed to improve. Even if much of your opinion is speculative. And BTW...it's tough to get any worse, especially your run D.
0-2

[Mr. Miyagi]

Well it's good to know the Bills are allowed to improve. Even if much of your opinion is speculative. And BTW...it's tough to get any worse, especially your run D.
:rofl: Shuddup. How's Culpepper doing? Or are you hanging your hat on a 37 year old QB who is still dizzy?

[Mr. Miyagi]

we were 27th in run D, if I left out the run part, my bad.

I'll take total defensive ranking.
Alright then. Deal.

You'll remember this right?

[justasportsfan]

and you're letting your homerism blind you. .

:lolpoint: mysticsoto


Get in the bet then mystic. He just called you a homer. You gonna take that? Make it a sig bet. :D

[Mr. Miyagi]

10 k on total run yards, 2006 v 2007? Deal.
Sheeeet can I take that one too?

[justasportsfan]

Sheeeet can I take that one too?
avatar bet.

[OpIv37]

Alright then. Deal.

You'll remember this right?

I can't guarantee I'll remember but I can guarantee that if you remind me and I lose, I'll pay.

[Mr. Miyagi]

avatar bet.
That our rush D will improve from 27th? Damn I'd bet him wife swapping if he wants....

[justasportsfan]

That our rush D will improve from 27th? Damn I'd bet him wife swapping if he wants....no total rush yards . I say , they won't run more yards than they did last year. Since i already have 10k for that and you want in, make an avatar bet with him.

[JoeMama]

The defense will probably stay about the same.

They will probably give up lots of yards again - but rank somewhere between 10th-15th in points allowed.

Perry Fewell seems to have a bend but don't break philosophy.

It's the offense that needs to be the difference-maker in 2007.

If we can average 21-25 points a game, we can probably wind up with a winning record.

[OpIv37]

"bend but don't break" is why we beat losing teams but can't beat playoff teams. The better teams in the league know how to make it break.

[mysticsoto]

:lolpoint: mysticsoto


Get in the bet then mystic. He just called you a homer. You gonna take that? Make it a sig bet. :D


I hate taking candy from a baby...

[mysticsoto]

and you're letting your homerism blind you. McCargo lost most of his rookie season so he's going to need more time to develop, plus he's had the same injury two years in a row. Safeties in the cover 2 don't do much in run support, and at the moment we DON'T have Patrick Willis- even if we get him he's going to be a rookie who makes rookie mistakes. We have the same crap DL, no DE run support and inexperienced CB's to come up and help on runs to the outside, and now no experience at MLB to back up that crappy DL.

Sorry, but one year of experience isn't enough to take the 27th ranked run D that lost two starters and make it formidable.

And that's where you make your mistake...nobody said they had to be formidable. They just have to beat the 27th rank...

[OpIv37]

And that's where you make your mistake...nobody said they had to be formidable. They just have to beat the 27th rank...

I don't even think they can do that- it depends on a cadre of rookies improving so much over the course of one season that they can compensate for the loss of TWO starters and improve. That's not too likely.

[Talk0fNewYork]

Every defense has weaknesses, Chicago had Hillenmeyer (spelling) he's ****ty, Brown only played half the season, Harris missed half the season, but the players had a few years under the system and were able to make contributions.

[justasportsfan]

I hate taking candy from a baby...
you calling OP a baby?

He wants to be a sucker about it, so be it.

[ublinkwescore]

I think the biggest difference will be in the fact that our D will be protected by our O - Our O should be able to stay on the field longer, and that will go a long way towards keeping the D rested both physically and mentally.

[ublinkwescore]

"bend but don't break" is why we beat losing teams but can't beat playoff teams. The better teams in the league know how to make it break.

yet none of those teams could beat it in the playoffs since both teams played the same scheme.

the D is designed to not give up long plays and count on the O making a mistake and the D capitalizing on it.

[OpIv37]

yet none of those teams could beat it in the playoffs since both teams played the same scheme.

the D is designed to not give up long plays and count on the O making a mistake and the D capitalizing on it.

um, the LOSING team in the SB played cover 2 too, and that was a team with much better defensive personnel than us. Bend but don't break WILL break against the better offensive teams.

[justasportsfan]

um, the LOSING team in the SB played cover 2 too, and that was a team with much better defensive personnel than us. Bend but don't break WILL break against the better offensive teams.
the sb champs were ranked last in run D. Did we have better personnel than they did? :idunno:

[SquishDaFish]

Our defense WILL be better then last years.

[OpIv37]

Our defense WILL be better then last years.

based on what? losing two starters and adding no one? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

[OpIv37]

the sb champs were ranked last in run D. Did we have better personnel than they did? :idunno:

I'd say their personnel is better. They also lost their best defensive player for most of the season.

[justasportsfan]

I'd say their personnel is better. They also lost their best defensive player for most of the season.
without looking at the sb win, you wouldn't be saying that since they were worse in the league against the run.
You'd be whining about that last run D ranking even though they won the sb. :snicker:

[OpIv37]

without looking at the sb win, you wouldn't be saying that since they were worse in the league against the run.

but you're also forgetting that they have the most potent offense in modern NFL history. We don't have that luxury.

[Mr. Miyagi]

based on what? losing two starters and adding no one? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?
Did you even read my first post?

[OpIv37]

Did you even read my first post?

I did and I disagree that one year of experience is all it takes for a bunch of rookies and no-names to make the 27th ranked run D better while also compensating for the loss of two starters.

[Mr. Miyagi]

28th. They were 28th run D last year.

[Saratoga Slim]

um, the LOSING team in the SB played cover 2 too, and that was a team with much better defensive personnel than us. Bend but don't break WILL break against the better offensive teams.

The Bears had to beat some good offensive teams to get to the Super Bowl. You'll admit that they got to the Super Bowl with a cover 2, right?

If our defense crumbles against the Colts' offense in the playoffs next year, I'll be OK with that. Cause that'll mean we got to the playoffs and got to see 10 or so wins along the way.

[OpIv37]

The Bears had to beat some good offensive teams to get to the Super Bowl. You'll admit that they got to the Super Bowl with a cover 2, right?

If our defense crumbles against the Colts' offense in the playoffs next year, I'll be OK with that. Cause that'll mean we got to the playoffs and got to see 10 or so wins along the way.

But if it'll crumble against the Colts it'll also crumble against the Patriots and any other halfway decent offense we encounter during the year.

The Bears have the PERFECT personnel for the cover 2- we're not even close.

[Mr. Miyagi]

How many elite teams will we be playing this season BTW?

[OpIv37]

How many elite teams will we be playing this season BTW?

teams with good offenses in bold

2007 opponents:
Home: Bengals, Cowboys, Dolphins, Giants, Jets, Patriots, Ravens, Broncos
Away: Browns, Dolphins, Eagles, Jets, Patriots, Redskins, Steelers, Jaguars

so that's 7 of our 16 opponents. A few caveats: the Steelers could easily move out of that characterization, but the Jets could move into it. The Ravens, Cowboys, and Jaguars have good D's and will be problematic even though their offenses aren't anything spectacular.

[Mr. Miyagi]

No way Dolphins and Steelers are elite anymore. Eagles are borderline.

So we're down to Bengals Broncos (with a semi-rookie QB) and Pats.

[OpIv37]

No way Dolphins and Steelers are elite anymore. Eagles are borderline.

So we're down to Bengals Broncos (with a semi-rookie QB) and Pats.

oh, dolphins was a mistake. I definitely didn't mean to bold that.

Steelers- I think they might get back on track this year.

Anyway, it doesn't matter- our D is pathetic so anything above "decent" will snap the bend but don't break.

[ublinkwescore]

um, the LOSING team in the SB played cover 2 too, and that was a team with much better defensive personnel than us. Bend but don't break WILL break against the better offensive teams.

Oh please, the Colts couldn't do anything against the Bears D until it got tired - Rex Grossman couldn't keep the O on the field, and that's what did the bears in.

[ublinkwescore]

[QUOTE=OpIv37]teams with good offenses in bold

2007 opponents:
Home: Bengals, Cowboys, Dolphins, Giants, Jets, Patriots, Ravens, Broncos
Away: Browns, Dolphins, Eagles, Jets, Patriots, Redskins, Steelers, Jaguars

so that's 7 of our 16 opponents. A few caveats: the Steelers could easily move out of that characterization, but the Jets could move into it.

:rofl:

the Dolphins have a good O?

I think we have a closet fin fan among us folks.

[ublinkwescore]

But if it'll crumble against the Colts it'll also crumble against the Patriots and any other halfway decent offense we encounter during the year.

The Bears have the PERFECT personnel for the cover 2- we're not even close.

The Colts D played well enough to beat the Pats, not once, but twice - including in the playoffs.

no D is perfect.

[Bert102176]

it can't be much worse then it was last year

[OpIv37]

:rofl:

the Dolphins have a good O?

I think we have a closet fin fan among us folks.

pay attention- I already said that bolding the Phins was a mistake.

[NFLfan]

wow the bills have a pretty tough schedule next season, especially the home games. I dont see one easy game there