Buff News - Bills Near A Trade Of Spikes

[Night Train]

Mark Gaughan, the Bills beat reporter, reports a deal for Spikes could be completed in the next day. Trade negotiations gained steam over the last 2 days. Multiple teams are interested ( none named ), which would bring the Bills a draft pick.

Spikes must agree to a new contract with his next team first.

[YardRat]

I was going to start a different thread, but I'll just add this here...

Buffalo trying to lure takers for LB Spikes (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070325/COL04/703250451/1082/SPT0102)



The Buffalo Bills are entertaining trade offers for Spikes, a linebacker the Bengals drafted No. 13 in the 1998 draft, just four picks before they selected Simmons. Both were anchors of the team's new 3-4 defense.
Spikes did not have a great year in 2006, which is understandable given that he was returning from a torn Achilles' tendon in 2005.
Buffalo, a small-market team, is similarly concerned about the future of NFL finances and the growing disparity between the league's haves and have-mores.
The Bills will not spend over the $109 million salary cap - a strategy called cash-over-cap, which is a habit of some teams.
Spikes is due $4.6 million in real money in 2007, and the Bills would like to have the space.
Spikes played in 12 games with 11 starts, all at strong-side linebacker, last season. He missed four games after starting the opener, then finished with 10 consecutive starts. Spikes, who turned 30 on Dec. 17, finished with 76 tackles and one forced fumble.
The Bengals used their transition tag on Spikes in March 2003, when he became an unrestricted free agent. It gave the Bengals the right to match any offer sheet Spikes would sign but provided no draft pick compensation, as the franchise tag does.
Bengals coach Marvin Lewis has said he regrets not using the franchise tag on Spikes. And the Bengals chose not to match Buffalo's offer sheet.
The question is, would the Bengals be interested in Spikes now? The answer: Only if they could get him for a song.

[Romes]

http://www.buffalonews.com/111/story/39588.html

There is a link to the article.

I'm still on the fence whether I think this is a good idea or not.

If this goes down all i know is that i'd feel a lot better about the LB's if this team drafted Willis in the first round. If not... :idunno:

[shelby]

Trading Spikes makes me sad, although i understand the practicality of it.
Remember how pumped up we were when we signed him?
:(

[Mitchy moo]

He's never going to be the same, we need more draft picks and to rebuild our team. I like spikes and think he is a great person but every team he is on always loses.

[Philagape]

http://www.buffalonews.com/111/story/39588.html

There is a link to the article.

I'm still on the fence whether I think this is a good idea or not.

If this goes down all i know is that i'd feel a lot better about the LB's if this team drafted Willis in the first round. If not... :idunno:

Whether it's a good idea or not doesn't matter. Cash-to-crap is the bottom line.

You're right, this would make LB the top priority.

[Tatonka]

i have been supportive of all the moves that the bills have made, but this is one move i just can not get on board with. it really just makes me sick that they are thinking about getting rid of spikes without KNOWING if his play will improve this year. he improved over the last month of last season. It is clear that this kind of injury takes a year of playing to recover. I think spikes deserves the benefit of the doubt and should get another year.

if this is about his cap number, well, that just infuriates me more. all this cap to cash bull ****.. his number is just over 4 million.. well why dont you try cutting some of the team BACK UPS that are making 2 million a year.. like Price, Reed, or Denny.

i mean come on..

as of right now.. a LB corps of Ellison, Crowell, Spikes is concerning enough..

but if they trade him, we are looking at Ellison, Crowell, Stamer.

hope your comfortable with that.

and you guys will say, oh, well we will draft willis.. what happens when willis goes at pick 9, or 10? Oh, we will get alexander.. blah blah.. unless the bills force the pick like they did last season with mccargo, and lose all value on the selection, then there is no way to tell what pick we will get in the draft.

the remaining free agent market for LBs sucks balls.

[Tatonka]

Looks like the Bills are dying to get Coy Wire into the starting LB rotation!!!

[Tatonka]

my only hope would be that maybe we could trade him to a team like san fran that might potentially steal willis from us in the draft.

[John Doe]

i have been supportive of all the moves that the bills have made, but this is one move i just can not get on board with. it really just makes me sick that they are thinking about getting rid of spikes without KNOWING if his play will improve this year. he improved over the last month of last season. It is clear that this kind of injury takes a year of playing to recover. I think spikes deserves the benefit of the doubt and should get another year.

if this is about his cap number, well, that just infuriates me more. all this cap to cash bull ****.. his number is just over 4 million.. well why dont you try cutting some of the team BACK UPS that are making 2 million a year.. like Price, Reed, or Denny.

i mean come on..

as of right now.. a LB corps of Ellison, Crowell, Spikes is concerning enough..

but if they trade him, we are looking at Ellison, Crowell, Stamer.

hope your comfortable with that.

and you guys will say, oh, well we will draft willis.. what happens when willis goes at pick 9, or 10? Oh, we will get alexander.. blah blah.. unless the bills force the pick like they did last season with mccargo, and lose all value on the selection, then there is no way to tell what pick we will get in the draft.

the remaining free agent market for LBs sucks balls.

I don't know if the benefit of the doubt for Spikes is worth $4.6 million.

And, as of right now, I think we are looking at Ellison, Crowell, and DiGiorgio. Digiorgio is a pretty good fit for the "cover 2"

[njsue]

:( Takeo Must stay a bill.

[justasportsfan]

I don't like it.

Did they fire the janitor too?

[Don't Panic]

If we deal Spikes, which looks likely, we will have to use a 1st on a LB, whether it means Willis at #12 or trading down for someone like Timmons. There is just no way around that fact. We will be extremely thin at LB... much thinner than any other area of the team. It's too bad... I would have loved to see a helathy Spikes with Willis and Crowell, but if they've made up their mind, they've made up their mind.

[Tatonka]

I don't know if the benefit of the doubt for Spikes is worth $4.6 million.

And, as of right now, I think we are looking at Ellison, Crowell, and DiGiorgio. Digiorgio is a pretty good fit for the "cover 2"

oh.. well hell.. i feel much better now knowing that Digiorgio is our new starter!

bottom line is we barely have 2 starters with crowell (stud) and ellison (questionable).. so we are going to get rid of another?

and how the bills can be ok with getting rid of spikes at 4.6 million, but keeping price, reed and denny all at 2.2 million... well that is just beyond me.

[Tatonka]

and we all know that going into the draft and having to force a pick is a great great strategy... that always works out well.

you get great results by having to force a pick... like trading your 2nd and 3rd round picks to get back into the first round and draft a 2nd round talent at DT..

[John Doe]

oh.. well hell.. i feel much better now knowing that Digiorgio is our new starter!

bottom line is we barely have 2 starters with crowell (stud) and ellison (questionable).. so we are going to get rid of another?

and how the bills can be ok with getting rid of spikes at 4.6 million, but keeping price, reed and denny all at 2.2 million... well that is just beyond me.

There is nothing questionable about Ellison as far as I am concerned. He played really well at the end of the season.

And, if Price, Reed, and Denny are being paid half of what Spikes is, I have not proble with that either. All of them were at least as productive as Spikes last year.

[Tatonka]

There is nothing questionable about Ellison as far as I am concerned. He played really well at the end of the season.

And, if Price, Reed, and Denny are being paid half of what Spikes is, I have not proble with that either. All of them were at least as productive as Spikes last year.

good to know your basing it on last year.. you think price is going to be better than average this year? you think reed is going to all the sudden catch the ball? maybe price and reed will combine for a whole 3 TDs again this year. and denny.. maybe we can get one good 3 sack game out of him and then 2 sacks over the coarse of 15 other games!

i think spikes will be better than average next year. i dont give a **** about last year.. i bet san fran really thought giving up on julian peterson was a great idea too.

hopefully we can get a strong 6th round pick for spikes and grab another low round LB to toss in as a starter.

you cant keep cutting starts and replacing them with rookies and hope to win a superbowl.

the bills have PLENTY of room to keep spikes.. this self imposed cap bull**** is gay and is not helping the team win.

[YardRat]

Spikes deserves this year to prove if he can return or not. I don't buy the cap excuse either...if they were intent on keeping him, they could shuffle some bonus money around to make it fit.

Funny how a position can go from a strength to a weakness is such a short period of time.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I like Spikes as much as anyone else. I like his enthusiasm, his attitude towards the game, his fire, and his skills when he's not injured. But I highly doubt that this is purely a financial move, because Marv isn't that money guy and he has a lot of say in the organization. If Marv gives his blessings to let TKO go, I bet he's damaged goods.

Sorry Takeo. We can't keep you around just because we like you.

In Marv We Trust

[John Doe]

good to know your basing it on last year.. you think price is going to be better than average this year? you think reed is going to all the sudden catch the ball? maybe price and reed will combine for a whole 3 TDs again this year. and denny.. maybe we can get one good 3 sack game out of him and then 2 sacks over the coarse of 15 other games!

i think spikes will be better than average next year. i dont give a **** about last year.. i bet san fran really thought giving up on julian peterson was a great idea too.

hopefully we can get a strong 6th round pick for spikes and grab another low round LB to toss in as a starter.

you cant keep cutting starts and replacing them with rookies and hope to win a superbowl.

the bills have PLENTY of room to keep spikes.. this self imposed cap bull**** is gay and is not helping the team win.

I don't remember reading anywhere that the plan was to plug in a 6th rounder as a starter.

If your starters are not productive, then you can cut them and replace them.

Spikes is just not worth it.

Give younger players meaningful experience and move on.

[BILLSROCK1212]

rumor has it the Eagles are one of the teams interested

[feelthepain]

Now who is it that's rebuilding again???

[Mr. Miyagi]

Now who is it that's rebuilding again???
It's still Miami.

Ask again tomorrow and the answer will still be the same.

[Mr. Miyagi]

You guys think we could get a 3rd for him? :scratch:

[OpIv37]

I don't remember reading anywhere that the plan was to plug in a 6th rounder as a starter.

If your starters are not productive, then you can cut them and replace them.

Spikes is just not worth it.

Give younger players meaningful experience and move on.

I have no problem replacing guys who aren't productive, but the problem is we cut them/trade them/lose them in FA and we don't replace them. You can't replace a Pro Bowl LB with a 6th round pick in his second year who barely even saw the field in his rookie position.

We haven't even replaced Fletcher yet- you could argue that Ellison is his replacement, but Ellison wasn't exactly dominant last year. And even if we keep Spikes and go with Ellison-Crowell-Spikes, that LB corps is one injury away from disaster. If we trade Spikes, we are in desperate need of one starting LB (arguably 2) and one LB for quality depth. That's a lot to ask from one draft, especially since we still need an RB, CB depth, DT help, a FB, a decent TE, a legit #2 receiver...

[mush69]

i have been supportive of all the moves that the bills have made, but this is one move i just can not get on board with. it really just makes me sick that they are thinking about getting rid of spikes without KNOWING if his play will improve this year. he improved over the last month of last season. It is clear that this kind of injury takes a year of playing to recover. I think spikes deserves the benefit of the doubt and should get another year.

if this is about his cap number, well, that just infuriates me more. all this cap to cash bull ****.. his number is just over 4 million.. well why dont you try cutting some of the team BACK UPS that are making 2 million a year.. like Price, Reed, or Denny.

i mean come on..

as of right now.. a LB corps of Ellison, Crowell, Spikes is concerning enough..

but if they trade him, we are looking at Ellison, Crowell, Stamer.



hope your comfortable with that.

and you guys will say, oh, well we will draft willis.. what happens when willis goes at pick 9, or 10? Oh, we will get alexander.. blah blah.. unless the bills force the pick like they did last season with mccargo, and lose all value on the selection, then there is no way to tell what pick we will get in the draft.

the remaining free agent market for LBs sucks balls.

Is Stamer still with us? I was checking the depth chart the other day at BB.com and didn't see him listed anywhere. Stamer is an animal as is Spikes. We need that type of fire and drive for our defense.

[BILLSROCK1212]

You guys think we could get a 3rd for him? :scratch:yup and a team desperate enough will give up a 2nd i say the picks we can get range froma 2nd to 5th

[feelthepain]

It's still Miami.

Ask again tomorrow and the answer will still be the same.

Sure it is whinny!!

[Illmatic15]

Wow we are going to suck BIG time next year, look at our LB core without TKO and fletcher and CB without Clements. We should get Al Wilson I dpnt care if hes 10000 pounds overweight and has one leg..

[John Doe]

I have no problem replacing guys who aren't productive, but the problem is we cut them/trade them/lose them in FA and we don't replace them. You can't replace a Pro Bowl LB with a 6th round pick in his second year who barely even saw the field in his rookie position.


Spikes is no longer a "Pro Bowl LB" - he is 2 years removed from that honer

Ellison is no longer a "6th round pick" - He played like a veteren at the end of last year. "Barely even saw the field?" - you gotta be kidding me. Go watch a tape of the second Miami game.

The linebacker corps will probably not be as deep or as experienced as we would like but thats just the way it is. Keeping Spikes is not that much of a solution.

[acehole]

Not me I liked spikes but he does not fit this team anymore. Remember this argument when Bruce Smith was being cut...I am sure doctors and coaches and cap guys on the team are all in agrement. I hope it is not for a 6th rounder though...



i have been supportive of all the moves that the bills have made, but this is one move i just can not get on board with. it really just makes me sick that they are thinking about getting rid of spikes without KNOWING if his play will improve this year. he improved over the last month of last season. It is clear that this kind of injury takes a year of playing to recover. I think spikes deserves the benefit of the doubt and should get another year.

if this is about his cap number, well, that just infuriates me more. all this cap to cash bull ****.. his number is just over 4 million.. well why dont you try cutting some of the team BACK UPS that are making 2 million a year.. like Price, Reed, or Denny.

i mean come on..

as of right now.. a LB corps of Ellison, Crowell, Spikes is concerning enough..

but if they trade him, we are looking at Ellison, Crowell, Stamer.

hope your comfortable with that.

and you guys will say, oh, well we will draft willis.. what happens when willis goes at pick 9, or 10? Oh, we will get alexander.. blah blah.. unless the bills force the pick like they did last season with mccargo, and lose all value on the selection, then there is no way to tell what pick we will get in the draft.

the remaining free agent market for LBs sucks balls.

[OpIv37]

Spikes is no longer a "Pro Bowl LB" - he is 2 years removed from that honer

Ellison is no longer a "6th round pick" - He played like a veteren at the end of last year. "Barely even saw the field?" - you gotta be kidding me. Go watch a tape of the second Miami game.

The linebacker corps will probably not be as deep or as experienced as we would like but thats just the way it is. Keeping Spikes is not that much of a solution.

I was talking about DiGiorgio barely seeing the field, not Ellison. You're the one that penciled him in as a starter.


And you're giving way too much credit to Ellison. He's decent but he's not the kind of playmaker we need at the position. It's absolutely insane to think Ellison can step right in for Spikes AND Fletcher.

And while keeping Spikes may not be the optimal solution, at this point it's better than losing him. This team sure as hell isn't going to win any games with DiGiorgio and Wire on the field at LB.

[casdhf]

A deal of Spikes pretty much assures that Willis is our guy, IMO.

[YardRat]

I'm OK with Ellison-Crowell-Spikes to start the season.

If we jettison TKO, I don't like the idea of lining up Ellison-Crowell-somebody else new to the line-up.

[justasportsfan]

It's absolutely insane to think Ellison can step right in for Spikes AND Fletcher.

.
I wouldn't say it's insane. A rookie came in and easily took over Milloy and did pretty well. I'm not saying that he's gonna come in and easily do what Spikes did when he was healthy/probowler. Not at all but it wouldn't be hard for me to say he can do better than what Spikes did last year.

I don't know, I really like Spikes and like I said , if there's one plaer I'd be willing to take a risk on ,it's Spikes. Maybe Marv and co. aren't willing to take that risk. Spikes is in his last year of contract and we don't know if he'll be here next year. I don't think it's also a bright idea to extend his contract without knowing if he'll ever be the same. The coaching staff would probably prefer to cut ties with him now and give Dogiorgio and Ellison the experience. :idunno:


Maybe the coaches think highly of both Ellison and Digiorgio. If you look at Digiorgio's bio, he was pretty good in college although he played for Div II.

[Don't Panic]

yup and a team desperate enough will give up a 2nd i say the picks we can get range froma 2nd to 5th

I'd say a 4th is the best we will do. I would be shocked if we got a day one pick for him.... damaged goods, past his prime... not much value there. That's why we should keep him... he's worth more on the team than for what we'll get in return.

[OpIv37]

I'm OK with Ellison-Crowell-Spikes to start the season.

If we jettison TKO, I don't like the idea of lining up Ellison-Crowell-somebody else new to the line-up.

I'm not thrilled with Ellison-Crowell-Spikes but I could live with it. Ellison-Crowell-(draft pick or someone on the current roster) scares the **** out of me.

[The Spaz]

If we at least get a 3rd for spikes expect us to have 2 first round picks by the end of the draft.

[OpIv37]

If you look at Digiorgio's bio, he was pretty good in college although he played for Div II.

that's scary because it means it's an even bigger adjustment from DII to pro than it is from DI to pro.

[acehole]

A deal of Spikes pretty much assures that Willis is our guy, IMO.

Yes however he could be gone. That is why a dominant DT would be better.
It would occupy blockers for the LB's to do there Job. So the better the DT core the better the LB and Db's are. Lb's ..especially the smaller faster ones we are looking for tend to slide down draft boards. So if we get willis great. But if we don't I am sure we can get 3 potential Starting LB's in this draft.

[Illmatic15]

rumor has it the Eagles are one of the teams interestedà

Brodrick Bunkley or flop :P

[John Doe]

I was talking about DiGiorgio barely seeing the field, not Ellison. You're the one that penciled him in as a starter.


And you're giving way too much credit to Ellison. He's decent but he's not the kind of playmaker we need at the position. It's absolutely insane to think Ellison can step right in for Spikes AND Fletcher.

And while keeping Spikes may not be the optimal solution, at this point it's better than losing him. This team sure as hell isn't going to win any games with DiGiorgio and Wire on the field at LB.

Ellison missed all of the preseason workouts - a situation that would set back any draftee. By the time training camp ended he was the top reserve. He is plenty good to start along side Crowell and whoever else gets the call.

I said earlier that, as of right now, DiGiorgio would be the starter over anyone else currently on the roster, assuming that you start your best three backers. An early round draft pick would probably supplant him. Either way, I think it is better for the team to get the younger guys some experience than hanging on to Spikes for one more year.

What do you do after this year if you keep Spikes? Either pick someone up in free agency at a high cost or start a player with little experience. Give them the experience now and be done with it. At it stands right now, that would be the only rookie that we would start on defense, assuming we invest a first day draft pick on a linebacker.

[justasportsfan]

that's scary because it means it's an even bigger adjustment from DII to pro than it is from DI to pro.


he's already had one year under his belt. I think he already has a grasp of the difference between college and the NFL. The thing is, it's time for him to apply it on the field and the only way to do it is to get experience.

I was fairly surprised with the way he played last year considering no one knew who he was. It's time to take it a notch up and again, only experience will do that.

[Ickybaluky]

You guys are real small up front. I understand speed is the big thing, but your front-7 is going to be among the league's lightest.

[John Doe]

he's already had one year under his belt. I think he already has a grasp of the difference between college and the NFL. The thing is, it's time for him to apply it on the field and the only way to do it is to get experience.

I was fairly surprised with the way he played last year considering no one knew who he was. It's time to take it a notch up and again, only experience will do that.

Exactly right. He beat out a Division 1 player who had a year's experience to make the team in the first place.

[The Spaz]

You guys are real small up front. I understand speed is the big thing, but your front-7 is going to be among the league's lightest.


Our staff don't know this.:up:

[acehole]

Small, speedy is the idea...Tom Brady gets rid of the ball real quick as so that nobody has a chance to smude his nail polish. He gets so mad on the sidlines when that happens. If the Bills could only learn to deffend the 5 yard out NE would have no offence. Speed kills my friend. Is your coach done with his FA hissy fit? He seems to think the reason you lost was you didn't have the ponies...I think it is because like all good things they must come to an end. Teams have caught up to your play book and your dirty blocking schemes. For the next 5 years you will be the Colts beeches.......Sad days Sad day....how the mighty have fallen....



You guys are real small up front. I understand speed is the big thing, but your front-7 is going to be among the league's lightest.

[xXSpIkes5IXx]

I have to admit i feel very weary of the situation our defense is in. Honestly, i dont see a reason to cut or trade takeo. Granted his salary is huge, but his leadership on the field has been outstanding for the 4 years hes been here. On top of that its not like cap space is a real issue for us....

He may never be the probowler we all loved again, but i know he will be better than he was last year. I mean look at Julian Peterson, the man had the same injury, and San Fran let him go..then boom, double digits sacks with the seahawks. Remember guys, this is TKO we are talking about, the fan favorite! The guy who does the little karate chop dance....

lets keep him in Buffalo, so the 2 most popular bills jerseys dont dissapear in 1 offseason....

[justasportsfan]

I have to admit i feel very weary of the situation our defense is in. Honestly, i dont see a reason to cut or trade takeo. Granted his salary is huge, but his leadership on the field has been outstanding for the 4 years hes been here. On top of that its not like cap space is a real issue for us....

He may never be the probowler we all loved again, but i know he will be better than he was last year. I mean look at Julian Peterson, the man had the same injury, and San Fran let him go..then boom, double digits sacks with the seahawks. Remember guys, this is TKO we are talking about, the fan favorite! The guy who does the little karate chop dance....

lets keep him in Buffalo, so the 2 most popular bills jerseys dont dissapear in 1 offseason....


you should really sart thinking of a new handle, just in case.

[xXSpIkes5IXx]

haha, maybe xxEvans83xx?

[HHURRICANE]

I like Spikes as much as anyone else. I like his enthusiasm, his attitude towards the game, his fire, and his skills when he's not injured. But I highly doubt that this is purely a financial move, because Marv isn't that money guy and he has a lot of say in the organization. If Marv gives his blessings to let TKO go, I bet he's damaged goods.

Sorry Takeo. We can't keep you around just because we like you.

In Marv We Trust

Great post. We aren't trading him because of money. We are trading him for several reasons:

1) An injury that I know he cannot recover 100% from. I have friends in the know on this.

2) He was one of the "leaders" who did more whinning than leading. When Fletcher left you had to figure that he wasn't far behind.

3) It didn't work. Say all you want but how many teams bring in great players only to find out, well, they were alot better at their last team. Spikes has been good-very good but not great. Bruce Smith was great.

He's 30, injured, and probably not psyched about playing for Buffalo. For those who say he's going to leave a big hole I think we had the same hole last year with him on the field.

[justasportsfan]

haha, maybe xxEvans83xx? I'd wait until his contract is up. That's usually the way to go even with jersey. The best time to get one is when they re-sign.

How bout' xXKelsayXx . It's better than xXDenneyXx or xXShaudWilliamsXx. :snicker:

[OpIv37]

Ellison missed all of the preseason workouts - a situation that would set back any draftee. By the time training camp ended he was the top reserve. He is plenty good to start along side Crowell and whoever else gets the call.

I said earlier that, as of right now, DiGiorgio would be the starter over anyone else currently on the roster, assuming that you start your best three backers. An early round draft pick would probably supplant him. Either way, I think it is better for the team to get the younger guys some experience than hanging on to Spikes for one more year.

What do you do after this year if you keep Spikes? Either pick someone up in free agency at a high cost or start a player with little experience. Give them the experience now and be done with it. At it stands right now, that would be the only rookie that we would start on defense, assuming we invest a first day draft pick on a linebacker.

I think keeping Spikes now buys us one more year. Spikes could share time with a draft pick or Digiorgio- if Spikes never returns to form, we have the new guy. If the new guy is a bust or takes extra time to catch on, we have Spikes. It gives us a chance to work someone in and get them experience without risking the whole season on them picking up the D quickly.

Then, next year, if the new guy or Digiorgio doesn't get it, we can work on getting a LB in the draft, or re-sign Spikes if he does return to form.

[justasportsfan]

I think keeping Spikes now buys us one more year. Spikes could share time with a draft pick or Digiorgio- if Spikes never returns to form, we have the new guy. If the new guy is a bust or takes extra time to catch on, we have Spikes. It gives us a chance to work someone in and get them experience without risking the whole season on them picking up the D quickly.

Then, next year, if the new guy or Digiorgio doesn't get it, we can work on getting a LB in the draft, or re-sign Spikes if he does return to form.


What's the difference between Digiorgio or next years 2008 draft pick?


I don't think we're risking the entire season on a player who's health is questionable.

[acehole]

I don't know...I think his heart is not in Buffalo. Seems like he plays not to get hurt....saving himself if you will for the next team. I don't know if that is leadership. I want young hungry wreckless players who have somthing to prove and throw themselvs all over the field without thinking about it...mad men rabid with homicidial thoughts of inflicting pain on thier minds .... werwolves in pads really ......spikes is like a dometicated lion at the zoo....fat with deer meat who gives the occational growl to keep the crowds happy.....



I have to admit i feel very weary of the situation our defense is in. Honestly, i dont see a reason to cut or trade takeo. Granted his salary is huge, but his leadership on the field has been outstanding for the 4 years hes been here. On top of that its not like cap space is a real issue for us....

He may never be the probowler we all loved again, but i know he will be better than he was last year. I mean look at Julian Peterson, the man had the same injury, and San Fran let him go..then boom, double digits sacks with the seahawks. Remember guys, this is TKO we are talking about, the fan favorite! The guy who does the little karate chop dance....

lets keep him in Buffalo, so the 2 most popular bills jerseys dont dissapear in 1 offseason....

[madness]

Spikes is a 30 year old linebacker who may or may not recover 100%. Even if he does close in on his former self, how many years do you think he seriously have left until he becomes another Fletcher making tackles 5 yards down the field? two... three years? This team is being built on aggressive speed. All that would be left for Spikes is to jump on the pile at the end of the play. Would you rather replace him now or when we are a playoff team?

You're fooling yourself if you think this is just about cap money. This is a very sound business decision. Get the LB of the future now. As much as I don't want to see TKO go, I have no problem putting my personal feelings aside for this one. Spikes has no worth to this team as of now. Let him go to a contender who needs him.

[xXSpIkes5IXx]

I don't know...I think his heart is not in Buffalo. Seems like he plays not to get hurt....saving himself if you will for the next team. I don't know if that is leadership. I want young hungry wreckless players who have somthing to prove and throw themselvs all over the field without thinking about it...mad men rabid with homicidial thoughts of inflicting pain on thier minds .... werwolves in pads really ......spikes is like a dometicated lion at the zoo....fat with deer meat who gives the occational growl to keep the crowds happy.....


Im sorry, but that is a load of bull****. You trying playing football after rupturing your achillies tendon. I know some of this is just because im a Spikes fan, but he has played his HEART out for us, did you even watch the '03 and '04 seasons. Its AMAZING how quickly some people throw our players under the bus. I guess this "what have you done for me lately" attitude really is true. Saying his heart isnt in Buffalo is just ridiculous...freaking ridiculous. Saving it for his next team? This is a serious injury, it takes more than a year to fully recover.

[bigbub2352]

i have no link but my friend from Rochester said there radio reported last night a rumor or Spikes and our 3rd(not the one we got form the Ravens) for Briggs, and we have to sign him to a long term deal, Like i said no link and no conformation, or crediability just food for thought

i would do that one in a second

[acehole]

You are making my pionts...without knowing it. Give me the spikes of 2003 and this isnt even an argument......



Im sorry, but that is a load of bull****. You trying playing football after rupturing your achillies tendon. I know some of this is just because im a Spikes fan, but he has played his HEART out for us, did you even watch the '03 and '04 seasons. Its AMAZING how quickly some people throw our players under the bus. I guess this "what have you done for me lately" attitude really is true. Saying his heart isnt in Buffalo is just ridiculous...freaking ridiculous. Saving it for his next team? This is a serious injury, it takes more than a year to fully recover.

[acehole]

Wow that (If true) would be great! Chicago needs a OLB not a destraction...and spikes on a contender...perfect match I think.....and Willis or POS or Rufus to that and we are set at LB for 4-5 years.....


i have no link but my friend from Rochester said there radio reported last night a rumor or Spikes and our 3rd(not the one we got form the Ravens) for Briggs, and we have to sign him to a long term deal, Like i said no link and no conformation, or crediability just food for thought

i would do that one in a second

[xXSpIkes5IXx]

You are making my pionts...without knowing it. Give me the spikes of 2003 and this isnt even an arument......

ummm...how? You said Spikes' heart wasent in Buffalo, which just isnt true, its hardly even debatable. A year ago the man couldnt even walk, and he played 11 games for us last season. Alot of other players couldnt even return from that type an injury. That is pure determination and heart.

So i dont understand how I proved your argument....maybe im just stupid?

[justasportsfan]

I don't know...I think his heart is not in Buffalo. Seems like he plays not to get hurt....saving himself if you will for the next team. I don't know if that is leadership. I want young hungry wreckless players who have somthing to prove and throw themselvs all over the field without thinking about it...mad men rabid with homicidial thoughts of inflicting pain on thier minds .... werwolves in pads really ......spikes is like a dometicated lion at the zoo....fat with deer meat who gives the occational growl to keep the crowds happy.....

I have to disagree. Not Spikes. Any other player maybe , yes. If you want a good trade , you play your heart out.

I do however think it was downhill when he started showing his emotions about the realease of Posey and Vincent. Now Fletch is gone. Obviously the bills are headed a different direction and Spikes may not be part of it just like the others. His injury makes it easier for the FO to justify it.

[gr8slayer]

Looks like Crowell is our new Defensive Captain.

[madness]

i have no link but my friend from Rochester said there radio reported last night a rumor or Spikes and our 3rd(not the one we got form the Ravens) for Briggs, and we have to sign him to a long term deal, Like i said no link and no conformation, or crediability just food for thought

i would do that one in a second

haha, if that came true a lot of people would be shutting up real quick. Spikes? Spikes who?

[Devin]

Spikes for Darwin Walker I bet. Straight up.

[madness]

Spikes for Darwin Walker I bet. Straight up.

According to a couple of personnel people around the league, the team is shopping Walker -- Buffalo, Green Bay and Minnesota apparently all have been contacted -- in hopes of adding a draft pick or moving up in a later round of the draft.

http://www.nj.com/columns/times/eckel/index.ssf?/base/columns-0/117479553684110.xml&coll=5

[Yasgur's Farm]

You guys are real small up front. I understand speed is the big thing, but your front-7 is going to be among the league's lightest.
Buffalo's LB's...
Ellison 228
DiGorgio 225
Crowell 235
Stamer 238
Haggan 248
Wire 220
Manning 245
Harrison 256
Buffalo's Average 236.9

Sounds like Tampa 2 weight to me...

Tampa Bay's LB's...
June 227
Brooks 235
Cash 223
Benjamin 222
Ruud 241
Nece 224
Quarles 225
Winborn 242
Tampa Bay's Average 229.9

Indianapolis' LB's...
Boiman 236
Gardner 228
Hagler 236
O'Neil 240
Keiaho 226
Morris 243
Brackett 235
Indianapolis' Average 234.9

[Michael82]

Oh God! This would be the only thing that Marv did this offseason that would piss me off! I really believe that if anyone can come back from the injury and be close to form, it would be Takeo Spikes. He has the heart and the toughness to fight thru it. Plus we need someone to actually lead our team, especially now that Fletcher is gone! :mad:

If there are a bunch of teams lining up to get him, it means that they also believe he will be back and would be worth a trade. This all smells of money **** because of Ralph and his stupid cash under cap crap. :ill: I hope not, because letting a guy go like Spikes because u can't afford him would be assinine. I believe that he was finally starting to get back to form last year and is going to shine this year, after spending an offseason and half a season in the new defense. and when he comes back...watch out!

But maybe Marv knows something that we don't... :idunno:

Either way, I hope we get AT LEAST one 3rd round pick and an extra pick. Or a 2nd rounder. :pray: Anything less would be a waste! :sigh:

[justasportsfan]

Either way, I hope we get AT LEAST one 3rd round pick and an extra pick. Or a 2nd rounder. :pray: Anything less would be a waste! :sigh:

how much do you think you could get for your jerseys? :D

[Devin]

If it is indeed a rookie pick id be shocked if it were anything more then a 5th. Even that is optimistic.

[acehole]

You are not dumb....and I think tekeo is a great guy. I did use the word seems. Even if he comes back full streigth in lets say 2008 then what? The NFL has a small window in which to get all things in place. My opinion is that by the time that happens for us he will be 1/2 the man you call T Spikes. We could get 2-3 younger player for his dollars now that could become 2 or 3 x what he can contribute in lets say 2008.Hate to break it to you...psst WE are not contenders. If we were then yea lets keep him...we are in year 2 of a 3 year plan....and when year 3 comes...I would rather have R Alexander with 2 years exp...then and aging slow once great player. He is at this piont a question mark will he come back ..? Won't he? I remember we had a great one in B Paup...eveyone *****ed about that. He never was the player he was after his injury...we kept him around awhile...didn't throw him under the bus....but then we moved on. As so I say to you now...we did not get anything when b Paup left...so why not get a DT or a pick in return and wish him well. He will have a better chance on Chicago or SD or Philly to get his ring. If your a fan of his would you want to see his face after a superbowl win? That wont happen here for him.



ummm...how? You said Spikes' heart wasent in Buffalo, which just isnt true, its hardly even debatable. A year ago the man couldnt even walk, and he played 11 games for us last season. Alot of other players couldnt even return from that type an injury. That is pure determination and heart.

So i dont understand how I proved your argument....maybe im just stupid?

[HHURRICANE]

Sirrius, just a few minutes ago, has the Giants and Eagles as suitors. I was getting ready for them to rip Buffalo but they were saying at his age and salary why not get the most value for him. They also said that year 2 is when players make their comeback from injuries like this.


If we get a 3rd for Spikes I would let him walk. It's very obvious that Marv wants his own players in here. I think getting rid of McGahee and Spikes is a step back hopefully followed by two steps forward.

[justasportsfan]

I think getting rid of McGahee and Spikes is a step back hopefully followed by two steps forward.


Spikes , I can agree, Willis no. We can easily find a 990 yd back.

[HHURRICANE]

Spikes , I can agree, Willis no. We can easily find a 990 yd back.

I can think of alot of teams last year that would have liked a back that could get 990 yards in 14 games. I'm not a McGahee fan by any means but lets not discount the fact that the Bills are in need of a starting RB and we don't have one.

One thing is for sure. Had Spikes not played a down last year our record still would have been 7-9. I'm not sure I can say that about Willis.

[billsburgh]

Looks like the Bills are dying to get Coy Wire into the starting LB rotation!!!
:puke:

[Michael82]

i have no link but my friend from Rochester said there radio reported last night a rumor or Spikes and our 3rd(not the one we got form the Ravens) for Briggs, and we have to sign him to a long term deal, Like i said no link and no conformation, or crediability just food for thought

i would do that one in a second
no chance in hell of that happening, but if it does...I would get down on my knees and start worshipping Marv! :pray:


I would LOVE Briggs in a Bills uni. :drool:

[Nighthawk]

Sorry, but for all you people that think Ralph wants to win...I'm thinking this changes your mind. He's all about his pocket book...PERIOD!

[patmoran2006]

Blah blah blah.. I love the attempts at justification..

It's a pure, 100% ECONOMIC MOVE and that's IT!!!!!!!!

This organization is more committed to saving every penny they can than winning. our first day FA's came with a price, which meant the end of signing anybody of importance and now dumping off salaries to make up for the money.

Groan me all you want, but some people admit and it some won't, but it's the absolute truth.

[patmoran2006]

Sorry, but for all you people that think Ralph wants to win...I'm thinking this changes your mind. He's all about his pocket book...PERIOD!
Absolutely.

These moves arent a winning decision. They are a business decision.

And we'll see how the fans feel about that, at the ticket office.

[Night Train]

After reading some of these responses, I can't help but shake my head. Some have vivid imaginations and entertaining conspiracy theories.

With me, it's about simple production. Spikes was a shell of himself last season and played poorly in this scheme. He could not plant on cutbacks or drop into coverage. Nagging leg injuries made him a spectator for far too many plays. He missed a ton of snaps last year. We'll miss him ? We missed him a ton last year !

I miss the old All-Pro Spikes. That was an old, broken down imposter I saw last year, after the great opening play vs. the Pats. If he can't be a positive contributor anymore, sentiment must be brushed aside for the good of the overall improvement of the D.

I wish him nothing but the best but he was no longer a front line player, which is why he was getting paid big $.

Turn the page and quit telling me how great he used to be.

[The Answer]

Looks like the Bills are dying to get Coy Wire into the starting LB rotation!!!

:rage: :baghead::madcurse:

The Answer wishes the Bills would get Coy Wire on the unemployment line.

~The Answer

[ublinkwescore]

good to know your basing it on last year.. you think price is going to be better than average this year? you think reed is going to all the sudden catch the ball? maybe price and reed will combine for a whole 3 TDs again this year. and denny.. maybe we can get one good 3 sack game out of him and then 2 sacks over the coarse of 15 other games!

i think spikes will be better than average next year. i dont give a **** about last year.. i bet san fran really thought giving up on julian peterson was a great idea too.

hopefully we can get a strong 6th round pick for spikes and grab another low round LB to toss in as a starter.

you cant keep cutting starts and replacing them with rookies and hope to win a superbowl.

the bills have PLENTY of room to keep spikes.. this self imposed cap bull**** is gay and is not helping the team win.

Didn't this all come about as a result of Spikes not wanting to be here anymore, and not the front office giving up on him - if I remember correctly, Spikes specifically asked to be cut or traded.

[justasportsfan]

This organization is more committed to saving every penny they can than winning. .

they sure were committed to saving a penny when they dished out cash for your biggest complaint, the OL.


Some people just can't makeup their mind.


my crystal ball says, someone will be flip-flopping again.

[Ickybaluky]

Buffalo's LB's...

Buffalo's Average 236.9

Sounds like Tampa 2 weight to me...

Tampa Bay's LB's...

Tampa Bay's Average 229.9

Indianapolis' LB's...

Indianapolis' Average 234.9

All those teams suck balls against the run.

There is a reason for that, because they were small and could get pushed around. I understand speed is the basis of the defense, but I see a unit that can get pushed around in all 3 cases.

It may not be a popular position, but IMO Buffalo looks pretty bad defensively. They are undersized and inexperienced, which doesn't translate well against good teams.

Unless the Bills have a great offense this year, I think they really struggle defensively. A great offense will give them leads and allow them to use the speed of their defense to defend the pass and get after the QB. However, the Bills were #30 in the NFL last year in offensive yardage, and while that is likely to improve I don't see the Indy offense there.

[camelcowboy]

Im sorry, but they should fill some holes before making new ones. Unless they can get a good day one pick for him then why bother. The giants would be my guess.

[ublinkwescore]

Yes however he could be gone. That is why a dominant DT would be better.
It would occupy blockers for the LB's to do there Job. So the better the DT core the better the LB and Db's are. Lb's ..especially the smaller faster ones we are looking for tend to slide down draft boards. So if we get willis great. But if we don't I am sure we can get 3 potential Starting LB's in this draft.

I hope to god we don't waste a 1st on another DT after we've picked up Kyle Williams and John McCargo last year...

it would just be stupid - we don't know what we've got yet at DT, but we know what we don't got at LB and RB and WR#2.

the way this team is built right now, I think we need to get a RB to make the offense 95% complete (we get WR#2, it's 100% complete IMO) - it will go a long way towards protecting our D by keeping them off the field, and letting them play with a lead more often.

Draft Marshawn Lynch damn it.

[bigbub2352]

I am not goin by the rumor my friend herd, cause u never no, but if we can get a 1st day pick for him, it would be wise to let him go, why play twice a players worth for half the player, he has maybe 2-3 yrs left and after this year he walks anyway, plus he dont want to play here, so let him go, Marv wants his guys here not TD's

[jpdex12]

and we all know that going into the draft and having to force a pick is a great great strategy... that always works out well.

you get great results by having to force a pick... like trading your 2nd and 3rd round picks to get back into the first round and draft a 2nd round talent at DT..

How do you know he wasn't worth the 1st round pick? We haven't seen his full potential. He was injured. Let the guy prove his worth first before you go calling him a piece of ****.

Miyagi is right, how do you know Spikes isn't damaged goods? More often than not players coming back from these injuries don't EVER fully heal completely. Yeah let's pay this guy $4.6 mill this year if we know he has an 80% chance that his achilles is going to tear again 1/4 of the way into the preseason...

I loved Takeo, but we need to move on and one more year of delaying another player time to prove himself is another year that we delay our changes of getting younger and better and into the playoffs.

[Nighthawk]

How do you know he wasn't worth the 1st round pick? We haven't seen his full potential. He was injured. Let the guy prove his worth first before you go calling him a piece of ****.

Miyagi is right, how do you know Spikes isn't damaged goods? More often than not players coming back from these injuries don't EVER fully heal completely. Yeah let's pay this guy $4.6 mill this year if we know he has an 80% chance that his achilles is going to tear again 1/4 of the way into the preseason...

I loved Takeo, but we need to move on and one more year of delaying another player time to prove himself is another year that we delay our changes of getting younger and better and into the playoffs.

It's not about trading Takeo, but it's about the Bills lack of filling the holes they create. Yeah, you can stick a chump in there like Ellison, but that doesn't make the team better. If you make holes, you better be ready to fill them and they can't do that in the 3rd round!

[Tatonka]

A deal of Spikes pretty much assures that Willis is our guy, IMO.

oh really? so now what happens when Willis gets picked by Tampa bay at 4? or one of the other 11 teams in front of us?

there is a STRONG chance that after running a 4.39, that one of the other teams moved him up their board and that he will not last till he gets to us. not to mention, that as soon as we trade spikes, we mine as well put a big red flag out that says "trade up ahead of us if you want Willis, because we have to take him!!!".

sorry.. i just dont feel comfortable going into the draft will such huge holes at so many spots.

we have no one at the following positions that has EARNED a starting spot or that has SHOWN to be good enough to start.:

CB, RB, WR2, LB, LB (assuming spikes is traded), DT, RG. FB.

i mean, you go into the draft like that... saying "we have to get these spots" and you get exactly what we got last year.. people panicing and trading up to get guys that shouldnt be drafted as early as they were.

[Tatonka]

Maybe the coaches think highly of both Ellison and Digiorgio. If you look at Digiorgio's bio, he was pretty good in college although he played for Div II.

if you look at EVERY players college bio, they were pretty good.

[ShadowHawk7]

AS IS we need one starting caliber LB. AS IS we should be drafting the best LB in the whole draft because we need to. So we're trading away the most proven LB on the roster for peanuts? Not to mention the leadership and fiery intensity he brings to the field. I'd almost raise his contract a mill for him to stay here and teach our rookie LB some game this year.

This would be the WORST move in recent history IMO. It may actually make me read Wys articles.

Please Marv, hold on to Spikes. :pray:

[Tatonka]

Didn't this all come about as a result of Spikes not wanting to be here anymore, and not the front office giving up on him - if I remember correctly, Spikes specifically asked to be cut or traded.


show me where that was said or printed.. justa said that.. but i have not heard or seen it anywhere else.. i dont buy it.

[Night Train]

if you look at EVERY players college bio, they were pretty good.

The Spikes of 2004 is not returning to form, so the Bills are looking for someone who has speed,youth and durability.

[Tatonka]

How do you know he wasn't worth the 1st round pick? We haven't seen his full potential. He was injured. Let the guy prove his worth first before you go calling him a piece of ****.

.

i am using the same crystal ball that everyone else is using to predict that TKO will never be what he was.

i am not down on mccargo.. i actually still have high hopes for him.. but we forced the picks of whitner and mccargo. instead of trading down to get whitner, and just staying where we were at in the 2nd to get mccargo, we acted like an 16 year old the first time he saw tits and blew our load.

[Tatonka]

The Spikes of 2004 is not returning to form, so the Bills are looking for someone who has speed,youth and durability.

um who? who is it that we have with speed, youth and durability?

[EDS]

You guys are real small up front. I understand speed is the big thing, but your front-7 is going to be among the league's lightest.

And that right there is why the Bills will get run over all day. There is a reason NE wins consistently with 3 300lb+ players on their front line.

[Night Train]

um who? who is it that we have with speed, youth and durability?
It's not Spikes, who missed a ton of snaps again last year.

The draft will yield us a starter. Ellison was a lucky grab in Round 6 last year. With 4 1st day pick, LB is a given now.

[justasportsfan]

show me where that was said or printed.. justa said that.. but i have not heard or seen it anywhere else.. i dont buy it.
you don't have to. that's what I heard.

[justasportsfan]

if you look at EVERY players college bio, they were pretty good.
nope. http://buffalobills.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=122683

[The Spaz]

nope. http://buffalobills.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=122683

He was great at tha level.

[ShadowHawk7]

At this rate, we should seriously consider taking two LBs day one.

[OpIv37]

What's the difference between Digiorgio or next years 2008 draft pick?


I don't think we're risking the entire season on a player who's health is questionable.

that's where you miss the point. If we have DiGiorgio or a draft pick AND Spikes, then that increases the chances one of them will be ready to play. If we cut Spikes and DiGiorgio and/or a draft pick doesn't come through, we're hosed.

[justasportsfan]

that's where you miss the point. If we have DiGiorgio or a draft pick AND Spikes, then that increases the chances one of them will be ready to play. If we cut Spikes and DiGiorgio and/or a draft pick doesn't come through, we're hosed.
nope, didn't miss your point . if we lose Spikes next year and draft another one, we're hosed again next year. We didn't get hosed last year when Whitner took over Milloy did we? If Spikes was a probowler last year, I'd understand but he wasn't and we don't even know if he'll ever be the same so we don't even know what we'll be missing this year as compared to last year. Spikes was hardly a factor. If he never gets back to the way he was, we just wasted another year by making his replacement lose valuable experience.

[justasportsfan]

He was great at tha level.
I said that in an earlier post.

[chubluv]

I hope he doesnt get traded. He should bounce back this year.

[jpdex12]

i am using the same crystal ball that everyone else is using to predict that TKO will never be what he was.

i am not down on mccargo.. i actually still have high hopes for him.. but we forced the picks of whitner and mccargo. instead of trading down to get whitner, and just staying where we were at in the 2nd to get mccargo, we acted like an 16 year old the first time he saw tits and blew our load.

What crystal ball? All you had to do was watch him on CBS' crystal ball on Sundays at 1pm, when he wasn't injured for half the season with a bad hammy that is. He's on the wrong side of 30, earns $4.6 mill this year and ain't got what he had when we signed him. I love the guy and his attitude. I have his jersey and almost cried when I saw that hit he had on Reggie Williams 2 years ago at the Ralph when he was coming across the middle. Hearing that crack sound and seeing that helmet fly off from Section 224 put cold chills up my back.
Realistically if you were Ralph Wilson and knew you had to make the executive decision to stay or move on with him and it was your $4.6 mill that he was being paid I guarentee you would be thinking about spending that $4.6 mill more responsibly and not on damaged goods. Spikes was looking a bit better towards the end of the season so we may be looking at the highest his trade value we will ever get, especially if he shows a mediocre 2007 season and we end up just having to dump him like David Carr for nothing. $4.6 mill is a lot to gamble with to see if he still works.

I also heard from an article that Spikes wants out and won't consider restructuring his contract. He still has to pass a physical like Al Wilson though if a team is interested so we'll have to wait and see. If he isn't healthy enough to pass a physical then you will obviously know why Buffalo wants to trade him and then you'll be eatin crow I guess.

[jpdex12]

It's not about trading Takeo, but it's about the Bills lack of filling the holes they create. Yeah, you can stick a chump in there like Ellison, but that doesn't make the team better. If you make holes, you better be ready to fill them and they can't do that in the 3rd round!

That 6th round chump Ellison started six games for us and did well. HE came on stronger than the veteran Spikes did at the end of the year. Get used to seeing him, he will be starting for us this year.

[HHURRICANE]

I'm giving the Bills front office time to prove that they know what they are doing.

However, if we start the year counting on Ellison and DiSuckio on the field I'll be pushing for a new owner and GM.

[acehole]

Yes because most good team only have 2 DT Right?
Two main components of the cover 2 is saftey and Penitrating Dt's.

Are you confident we have our W Sapp on this team yet?

Think man think.....

[quote=ublinkwescore]I hope to god we don't waste a 1st on another DT after we've picked up Kyle Williams and John McCargo last year...

[acehole]

To answer your question yes....we are going to do it like it or not.

And the worst move in recent time was letting Pat Williams walk.....


AS IS we need one starting caliber LB. AS IS we should be drafting the best LB in the whole draft because we need to. So we're trading away the most proven LB on the roster for peanuts? Not to mention the leadership and fiery intensity he brings to the field. I'd almost raise his contract a mill for him to stay here and teach our rookie LB some game this year.

This would be the WORST move in recent history IMO. It may actually make me read Wys articles.

Please Marv, hold on to Spikes. :pray:

[acehole]

Yes and one of those suck ball teams beat NE to go and win the Bowl.
Seem Tom Brady has a problem with those defenses....



All those teams suck balls against the run.

There is a reason for that, because they were small and could get pushed around. I understand speed is the basis of the defense, but I see a unit that can get pushed around in all 3 cases.

It may not be a popular position, but IMO Buffalo looks pretty bad defensively. They are undersized and inexperienced, which doesn't translate well against good teams.

Unless the Bills have a great offense this year, I think they really struggle defensively. A great offense will give them leads and allow them to use the speed of their defense to defend the pass and get after the QB. However, the Bills were #30 in the NFL last year in offensive yardage, and while that is likely to improve I don't see the Indy offense there.

[ShadowHawk7]

Originally Posted by justasportsfan
"What's the difference between Digiorgio or next years 2008 draft pick? "

One was a UDFA, and the other will be a top 5 pick at this rate. :ill:



Sorry guys, not feeling the optimism I had earlier this offseason..

[The Spaz]

Yes and one of those suck ball teams beat NE to go and win the Bowl.
Seem Tom Brady has a problem with those defenses....

Very good!:up::beers:

[Ickybaluky]

Yes and one of those suck ball teams beat NE to go and win the Bowl.
Seem Tom Brady has a problem with those defenses....

Actually, he does better against those defenses, and generally does better against zone coverage. He historically has struggled more against teams that play man-to-man with their CBs on the outside, like Miami did a lot with Madison and Surtain or Denver did with Bailey and Williams. Of course that could change more this year, because Stallworth gives the Pats the kind of deep threat they haven't had in some time. A big problem they have had on offense is inability to stretch the field vertically. However, the Pats spread the ball well on offense and to a good job of finding holes against zone teams.

If you look at how Indy beat the Pats to go to the Super Bowl, they overwhelmed them with offense. Their defense didn't win that game, Manning ran roughshod over them in the second half. That is why they signed Thomas and why I'd expect them to go heavy on defense in the draft. The Pats biggest weakness is speed in the back-end of their defense.

Sorry you don't like to hear it, but I look at the Bills defense and wonder how anyone could say they are better. Granted, McCargo can come on this year, but they are very small up front and will get pushed around. If the Bills offense, which should be improved, can score like Indy's you can compete, but if pressure is put on the defense to win the Bills are in trouble. The Buffalo defense is small and inexperienced, which is the worst combination you can have IMO.

I do think the Bills are better on offense, and they should continue a solid performance on ST. However, when I look at that defense I wonder who there is going to scare anyone. Schobel is a good rusher, but outside of that I can't see any player who you look at as someone who effects how another team will gameplan against them. I see a lot of JAGs.

That isn't to say they have made a big mistake in allowing guys to go and going young, it is just that it will hurt until they develop some guys who can physically match up and threaten offenses.

[Talk0fNewYork]

Plain And Simple....A rebuilding team does not take a 4.5 million dollar chance on a guy they "Hope" can return to old forum. Trade him, get a draft pick, and rebuild a team that can be a contender in 1-2 seasons (something the past managments could not do)

[OpIv37]

nope, didn't miss your point . if we lose Spikes next year and draft another one, we're hosed again next year. We didn't get hosed last year when Whitner took over Milloy did we? If Spikes was a probowler last year, I'd understand but he wasn't and we don't even know if he'll ever be the same so we don't even know what we'll be missing this year as compared to last year. Spikes was hardly a factor. If he never gets back to the way he was, we just wasted another year by making his replacement lose valuable experience.
you're assuming that whoever we get to replace Spikes will be as NFL ready as Simpson and Whitner were last year. that's a pretty big assumption.

[OpIv37]

Plain And Simple....A rebuilding team does not take a 4.5 million dollar chance on a guy they "Hope" can return to old forum. Trade him, get a draft pick, and rebuild a team that can be a contender in 1-2 seasons (something the past managments could not do)

and if that draft pick doesn't work out, then what? We spent two draft picks on DT's last year and our DL still sucks.

[Talk0fNewYork]

We spent two draft picks on DT's last year and our DL still sucks.The best one played 5 games, and KW was a ****ing 5th round pick! WTF do you expect! They were rookies, Anything To ***** Huh!

[justasportsfan]

you're assuming that whoever we get to replace Spikes will be as NFL ready as Simpson and Whitner were last year. that's a pretty big assumption.

UH, the lb'ers in question should be able to be where Simpson and Whitner were last year since they already have one year under their belt. Like I said, what are we missing from Spikes production last year? Nothing.

Right now Spikes is no different from Culpecker. One time probowler but now guarantees. They're no different from any other player with potentials with a difference of injuries.

Like I said, I like Spikes but if he's not gonna be here next year, time to move on.

[justasportsfan]

and if that draft pick doesn't work out, then what? We spent two draft picks on DT's last year and our DL still sucks.
Might as well not draft any players then since they may not work out?

[gr8slayer]

Owner Mike Brown says the Bengals will not trade for Takeo Spikes.
Spikes was one of the most popular players on the team when he played for Cincinnati early in his career but the Bengals are short on cap space. The Buffalo News reported Saturday morning that a deal involving Spikes is close to happening without specifying who the trade partner might be.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Might as well not draft any players then since they may not work out?
Exactly. And what if Spikes (who we have injury info on) doesn't work out?

[OpIv37]

Might as well not draft any players then since they may not work out?

way to put words in my mouth.

How about not relying on a single draft to fill so many holes? How about not creating NEW holes when there are already so many to fill? How about drafting BETTER so we don't spend two picks on a position one year only to have to use more picks on the same position the following year?

[OpIv37]

The best one played 5 games, and KW was a ****ing 5th round pick! WTF do you expect! They were rookies, Anything To ***** Huh!

the best one? McCargo was outplayed by Williams in pre-season and in the games before he got injured. Just cuz Marv spent two draft picks on him doesn't automatically make him the best- he has to earn that distinction and so far he hasn't.

Fact: Everyone knew our DL sucked going into the 06 season. Fact: We gave up more yards on the ground in 06 than we did in 05. I don't think NOT BEING WORSE was too much to ask, but it turns out it was.

Everyone seems so satisfied with mediocrity as long as there is still "potential". No one seems to care about results anymore.

[Philagape]

Might as well not draft any players then since they may not work out?

or sign any free agents since it didn't work for the Redskins