Patrick Willis is not going to pass Pittsburgh

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I'm not buying into his hype of running a 4.3+ at his pro day. Realistically teams have to take the medium of his Indy run and his pro day run in evaluation of his speed.

More importantly the question is can he cover? Ray Lewis was not the fastest guy when he came out. But he surely knew how to read and could cover people with the best of them. To that end, almost everyone, scout and coaches, seem to give Willis a thumb up in coverage. He's not, however, considered as the best in stopping the run.

I'm hearing from my friend who works for a football agency, as well as some radio discussions here in Pittsburgh, that Willis is an ideal inside linebacker in a 3-4 scheme. He covers well, he shoots the gap well, and he can rush QBs.

We know Pittsburgh is going to play a lot of hybrid 3-4 and 4-3 this season. James Farrior is getting old and Porter is gone. Linebacker is probably a top priority in Steeler town. There is a mild speculation here that the Steelers may need to trade up a few spot to get Willis, but I think that's not likely, given that they are also looking for a first rated CB.


I don't see Willis going in the top 10 since there is so many top rated guys there. But it could get very dicy when it gets to San Fran. There might be a few trades there. One thing is certain. Willis will not pass the 15th spot.

[OpIv37]

he better not get past Buffalo at 12.

[patmoran2006]

Every pick after 10 will be dicey if your Pitt and hoping Willis will fall to 15.

[Devin]

Willis is basically a slightly lighter Ray lewis. His speed is no joke, he hits like a truck and has exceptional instincts. His biggest strength is his play against the run.

Its been rumored for a long time hes run 40's in the low 4.3's many times so his pro day numbers dont surprise me at all. Personally I think he will be gone before our pick. As the 49ers pairing him with Lawson and Clements will be inching closer towards a contender.

And honestly unless Marv was blowing smoke, with Crowell at MLB I doubt we draft him anyway.

Willis is going to be an exceptional pro.

[DraftBoy]

49ers could really use him, so could Atlanta at 8

[Devin]

:up:

[patmoran2006]

49ers could really use him, so could Atlanta at 8
yer absolutely right..

Willis is probably gone, and so is Okoye (IMO Miami or Atlanta)..

Assuming Peterson is gone too..

That leaves pretty much Lynch as the best value at 12. Or trading down and goign after a OLB like Timmons or Beason..

The worst case scenario is we take one of the OLB at 12 anyway, or even worse, Posluszny. the only thing DUMBER than that would be taking Leon Hall.

if Willis and Okoye are gone, we better be taking Lynch.

[Ed]

yer absolutely right..

Willis is probably gone, and so is Okoye (IMO Miami or Atlanta)..

Assuming Peterson is gone too..

That leaves pretty much Lynch as the best value at 12. Or trading down and goign after a OLB like Timmons or Beason..

The worst case scenario is we take one of the OLB at 12 anyway, or even worse, Posluszny. the only thing DUMBER than that would be taking Leon Hall.

if Willis and Okoye are gone, we better be taking Lynch.
So if Peterson, Willis and Okoye are all gone by 12, who falls? Branch, Landry?

[Devin]

yer absolutely right..

Willis is probably gone, and so is Okoye (IMO Miami or Atlanta)..

Assuming Peterson is gone too..

That leaves pretty much Lynch as the best value at 12. Or trading down and goign after a OLB like Timmons or Beason..

The worst case scenario is we take one of the OLB at 12 anyway, or even worse, Posluszny. the only thing DUMBER than that would be taking Leon Hall.

if Willis and Okoye are gone, we better be taking Lynch.

I know you have a hard-on for Lynch but dont be surprised if he drops past us.....and keeps dropping, he will go in the first of course. I assure you he is NOT the "best value at 12".

TKO being traded all but eliminates him as our pick anyway. And im not dissapointed. And yes I'd take Poz in a heartbeat. Trade down or not. Talent is talent no matter where it is drafted.

Next season if we manage to snag Ray Rice, mcfadden (although he maybe #1 overall) or any of the other beasts coming out you will be thankful.

Course that is if you live to see it, im shocked half you girls havent offed yourselves......what with the sky falling and the world ending and all.

[Devin]

So if Peterson, Willis and Okoye are all gone by 12, who falls? Branch, Landry?

Branch or one of the DE's.

[patmoran2006]

So if Peterson, Willis and Okoye are all gone by 12, who falls? Branch, Landry?
I would creme myself if Landry fell to us.. He's a franchise safety. The kind of guy you build an ENTIRE defense around, a difference maker like Bob Sanders.. That being said, we'll never draft him.. We have too many defensisve "needs" because we didnt address anything in FA. He's a game changing luxury we cant afford.

And piss on Branch.

My educated GUESS on the Top 11 picks as of right now (and obviously its just opinion nothing is fact)
1- Oakland- Russell
2- Detroit- Quinn
3- Cleveland- Peterson
4- Tampa - CJ
5- Arizona- Joe Thomas
6- Washington- GAines Adams
7- Minnesota- Jamal Anderson
8- Houston- Landry
9- Miami- levi Brown
10- Atlanta- Okoye
11- SF- Willis

Leaving us at 12.. With Lynch clearly the best player on the board.. and OLB being our biggest need. I wouldnt draft Branch if you PAID ME.

My "guess" is we trade down and take Timmons or Beason.. My FEAR is that we draft one of them at 12 as a huge reach because its such a "need" (again FA made it that way) or the two NIGHTMATE SCENARIOS
1- Staying at 12 and drafting Timmons, beason or worse- Posluszny
2- Leon Hall.

IF we committ to defense with the first pick (I want Peterson or Lynch and wont waiver).. but if we do, our best HOPE is that Branch gets into that Top 11, knocking either Okoye or Willis down to 12. Otherwise, we're F'd.

[Devin]

Leaving us at 12.. With Lynch clearly the best player on the board.. and OLB being our biggest need. I wouldnt draft Branch if you PAID ME.

My "guess" is we trade down and take Timmons or Beason.. My FEAR is that we draft one of them at 12 as a huge reach because its such a "need" (again FA made it that way) or the two NIGHTMATE SCENARIOS
1- Staying at 12 and drafting Timmons, beason or worse- Posluszny
2- Leon Hall.

IF we committ to defense with the first pick (I want Peterson or Lynch and wont waiver).. but if we do, our best HOPE is that Branch gets into that Top 11, knocking either Okoye or Willis down to 12. Otherwise, we're F'd.

Do you actually watch any game film, or are all your posts, "educated" guesses, and blogs just based on world wide inter-web mock drafts?

Good god.

[patmoran2006]

Do you actually watch any game film, or are all your posts, "educated" guesses, and blogs just based on world wide inter-web mock drafts?

Good god.
I've watched plenty of football on TV, and I read up on a ton of prospects. Not to mention spending plenty of time on other team's sites and reading up on their needs and draft strategies.

Are there some PROFESSIONAL scouts on here I'm unaware of that their insight on prospects is much better than mine?

[patmoran2006]

Do you actually watch any game film, or are all your posts, "educated" guesses, and blogs just based on world wide inter-web mock drafts?

Good god.
you know the pathetic part about that statement? Is that you are actually a MOD..

So if I dont' watch enough game film like Im a professional scout or something, then I dont have a right to express my OPINIONS on who I think is the best running back or linebacker out there?

I can't say "Lynch is clearly the best player on the board" because my name isn't Tom MOdrak?

This coming from a MOD, nonetheless.

[HAMMER]

I've watched plenty of football on TV, and I read up on a ton of prospects. Not to mention spending plenty of time on other team's sites and reading up on their needs and draft strategies.

Are there some PROFESSIONAL scouts on here I'm unaware of that their insight on prospects is much better than mine?

No way, no one compares to the omniscient Pat Moran, the guru of gurus, the man with all the knowledge. No one could possibly compare!

[Scumbag College]

I would creme myself if Landry fell to us.. He's a franchise safety. The kind of guy you build an ENTIRE defense around, a difference maker like Bob Sanders.. That being said, we'll never draft him.. We have too many defensisve "needs" because we didnt address anything in FA. He's a game changing luxury we cant afford.

And piss on Branch.

My educated GUESS on the Top 11 picks as of right now (and obviously its just opinion nothing is fact)
1- Oakland- Russell
2- Detroit- Quinn
3- Cleveland- Peterson
4- Tampa - CJ
5- Arizona- Joe Thomas
6- Washington- GAines Adams
7- Minnesota- Jamal Anderson
8- Houston- Landry
9- Miami- levi Brown
10- Atlanta- Okoye
11- SF- Willis

Leaving us at 12.. With Lynch clearly the best player on the board.. and OLB being our biggest need. I wouldnt draft Branch if you PAID ME.

My "guess" is we trade down and take Timmons or Beason.. My FEAR is that we draft one of them at 12 as a huge reach because its such a "need" (again FA made it that way) or the two NIGHTMATE SCENARIOS
1- Staying at 12 and drafting Timmons, beason or worse- Posluszny
2- Leon Hall.

IF we committ to defense with the first pick (I want Peterson or Lynch and wont waiver).. but if we do, our best HOPE is that Branch gets into that Top 11, knocking either Okoye or Willis down to 12. Otherwise, we're F'd.

I agree with pretty much everything except for SF's pick of Willis at 11. They drafted Lawson last year in the first round, and although the coach is a defensive guy, I really think they go WR with their first pick. Looking at their roster, WR looks like the weakest part of the team right now and if Ginn is there, I think that's whom they'll pick.

I really think the Bills will have a tough decision come draft day, Willis vs. Lynch. I know I'm back and forth over the two myself.

[Devin]

I've watched plenty of football on TV, and I read up on a ton of prospects. Not to mention spending plenty of time on other team's sites and reading up on their needs and draft strategies.

Are there some PROFESSIONAL scouts on here I'm unaware of that their insight on prospects is much better than mine?

Actually as a matter of fact yes, but hes probably pretty busy this time of year.

[patmoran2006]

I agree with pretty much everything except for SF's pick of Willis at 11. They drafted Lawson last year in the first round, and although the coach is a defensive guy, I really think they go WR with their first pick. Looking at their roster, WR looks like the weakest part of the team right now and if Ginn is there, I think that's whom they'll pick.

I really think the Bills will have a tough decision come draft day, Willis vs. Lynch. I know I'm back and forth over the two myself.
Yea.. Taking a WR (for SF) would be a possibility for sure.. I cant see them overly depending on Lelie.. I hope they do go WR, or someone before them.

There are lots of guys who will help the Bills. There are only a couple of people I pray we dont' draft (at 12).
1- Branch
2- ANY CB
2- Any LB other than Willis (especially Pos)

I would be happy with just about anybody else, even Levi Brown.

[JoeMama]

Talent is talent no matter where it is drafted.



That's the truth.

Only busts are remembered for their draft position.

Good players are good players, regardless of where you draft them.

No one in Indy cares that Dwight Freeney was taken higher than expected.

No one in Cincy cares that Levi Jones was taken higher than expected.

Talent is talent. Wherever you can find it.

[patmoran2006]

Actually as a matter of fact yes, but hes probably pretty busy this time of year.
Well then I guess "he's" probably the ONLY ONE who should be qualified to post their draft opinions on here then.

[Ed]

If Pitt really wants Willis that bad and he's still on the board at 12, why not trade spots with them, grab another 3rd, and use their #15 pick to draft Lynch before Green Bay can?

With 3 3rds possibly 4 with the Spikes trade, we could really do some maneuvering.

[patmoran2006]

If Pitt really wants Willis that bad and he's still on the board at 12, why not trade spots with them, grab another 3rd, and use their #15 pick to draft Lynch before Green Bay can?

With 3 3rds possibly 4 with the Spikes trade, we could really do some maneuvering.
Thats one of the draft scenarios (and realistic) that I've ever heard on here.. Absolutely. that would be awesome.

The problem with that is I dont think the Bills will draft a RB in the first round at 12, 13, 15 or 23..

[Devin]

you know the pathetic part about that statement? Is that you are actually a MOD..

So if I dont' watch enough game film like Im a professional scout or something, then I dont have a right to express my OPINIONS on who I think is the best running back or linebacker out there?

I can't say "Lynch is clearly the best player on the board" because my name isn't Tom MOdrak?

This coming from a MOD, nonetheless.

Get your big boy pants on. This is a discussion board.

You are allowed to voice your opinion all youd like.....over....and over.....and over......and over.......and over.....and over....again. No matter how wrong it is :snicker:

Because im a mod and didnt address you in a friendly tone youre offended?

You, like Ice, tend to let an opinion or desire block good ol common sense. So when I call you on it dont get upset. If you write, post or otherwise voice your opinion be prepared for criticism or differing opinions. You absolutley dont have to be a professional. But if I or anyone for that matter points out all the reasons your "opinion" is flawed.....dont get upset about it.

Watching youtube clips of Marshawn Lynch against Southeastern Utah A&M or which ever other B teams he slaughted is cool.

I am simply saying that I believe as much as you say reaching for some of the LB's you stated were a reach they fill more of an immediate need then he does. And I am most certainly curious the reason it is you believe them to be reaches........apart from some second rate mock draft you saw.

[patmoran2006]

Fair enough..

But I still hate Pos

[Devin]

Is there a reason? Or is it because he simply is not the "sexy" pick at 12?

[Scumbag College]

Yea.. Taking a WR (for SF) would be a possibility for sure.. I cant see them overly depending on Lelie.. I hope they do go WR, or someone before them.

There are lots of guys who will help the Bills. There are only a couple of people I pray we dont' draft (at 12).
1- Branch
2- ANY CB
2- Any LB other than Willis (especially Pos)

I would be happy with just about anybody else, even Levi Brown.

1. I actually like Branch from what I've seen of him watching UM, but I don't think he fits the "Cover 2." If a coach could light a fire under his ass, I actually think he'd be a monster as a NT in a 3-4. If the FO is hellbent on drafting a starter at DT, I'd say it's Okoye or wait until later in the draft.

2. CB would be a major disappointment until Day 2 IMO, much less the first round. K. Thomas played solid as a nickel, Greer is managable as a #4 CB and is a solid ST. With Marv getting rid of all the vets on D, the Bills are going to have to start younger guys whom are mid to late round picks (i.e Simpson, Ellison, Williams) to stick with Marv's mantra of "building through the draft." It would then make sense to at least plan for Youboty as the starting CB and not address the position until later in the draft if a guy falls whom would be a "value" pick and fit the system.

3. There are several LBs whom would fit the system if Willis is passed by and/or not there in Round 1 in rounds 2 or 3. I would be thrilled with Siler in the 2nd, or possibly Alexander (although where the Bills are picking in the second might be a reach.) Poz does NOT fit this system, and shouldn't be drafted in any round by this team.

[Devin]

3. There are several LBs whom would fit the system if Willis is passed by and/or not there in Round 1 in rounds 2 or 3. I would be thrilled with Siler in the 2nd, or possibly Alexander (although where the Bills are picking in the second might be a reach.) Poz does NOT fit this system, and shouldn't be drafted in any round by this team.

Doesnt Penn State run a version of the Cover 2? Didnt Poz win some significant LB award while in it.....twice?

Admittedly hes not lightning quick or anything, but his football instincts are second to none. Hes basically a poor mans AJ Hawk. And his "game speed" is fine.

If you run a straight Cover 2 where the linebackers aren't called upon to blitz and they you use them to go sideline to sideline and pick through players, while also primarily used in coverage hed be fine. Especially if he takes over for TKO.

[Nighthawk]

Branch or one of the DE's.

If those guys are indeed gone at 12, you would have to think long & hard about taking Branch. I know there are knocks on him, but a big body like that in the middle would sure help our run defense!

[Scumbag College]

Doesnt Penn State run a version of the Cover 2? Didnt Poz win some significant LB award while in it.....twice?

Admittedly hes not lightning quick or anything, but his football instincts are second to none. Hes basically a poor mans AJ Hawk. And his "game speed" is fine.

If you run a straight Cover 2 where the linebackers aren't called upon to blitz and they you use them to go sideline to sideline and pick through players, while also primarily used in coverage hed be fine. Especially if he takes over for TKO.

True, and I can see where you're coming from.

Look, i think he'll be a good player in the NFL, but I think he'll be there until late in the first round. If drafted by the Bills in the first, then the Bills starting LBs will be Ellison and Poz on the outside and Crowell at MLB. I'm not completely sold on moving Crowell inside as of yet. If the Bills take Willis, I like plugging him in as starter at MLB and Crowell and Ellison much better. I think there are better options later in the draft rather than Poz in the first. I know sometimes a rookie is measured by 40 numbers and other measurables like that, but how about Poz's teamate Shaw in the 3rd:

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=12520

He's a converted RB and is still developing, while Poz might have plateaued. He's a little better athletically than Poz too. Here's his numbers:

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=12502

I guess my point is taking Willis 1st would let Crowell stay at OLB and not cause as much upheaval on D. I'd still like Lynch in the first and draft Siler in the second or another guy like Shaw in the third. I just don't think Poz is a good fit to what the Bills want out of their OLBs in this system.

[YardRat]

He's not, however, considered as the best in stopping the run.


His biggest strength is his play against the run.

So which is it?