Anyone else still concerned over DT?

[EDS]

With Walker now in the fold the Bills top 4 DTs are pretty much locked in place. What concerns me is that there is not a 300lber in the bunch. This would be o.k. if the Bills had a T. Harris/W. Sapp type of player, but that does not appear to be the case (unless McCargo develops quickly). I will admit that I wanted the Hawks to get Okoye because he has the potential to be a Tommie Harris/Warren Sapp.

The history of the Cover 2 is that it is an effective defense when you have (1) a premier DT (i.e., Sapp/Harris) and (2) a linebacker with safety speed (i.e., Urlacher/Brooks) OR an unstopable offense (i.e., Indy).

I hope Marv and co. know what they are doing. The draft will be critical to rebuild what is now a gutted linebacker corps.

[Earthquake Enyart]

They want faster gap shooter types, not fat run pluggers.

[EDS]

They want faster gap shooter types, not fat run pluggers.

I know that is what they say they want, but my concern is that such a scheme doesn't work without a truly great DT in the middle.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Everyone has one gap.

The problem will be the LB's, not the DL.

[don137]

I would say DT is a big question mark position. They have the talent to be effective but that is rolling the dice. Triplett got better as the year went on, Walker can be a great player if he can stay motivated and McCargo and Williams were rookies last year that should take big steps forward. If all that happens the Bills should be solid at DT.
If McCargo and Williams don't improve, Triplett plays like he did early in the year and Walker stays inconsistent then the DT will be a big weakness for the team.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I think Williams was very good last year. He was the steal of the draft.

[patmoran2006]

McCargo becomes the key.

he HAS to become a good 1 gap NT

[EDS]

So does Walker start at the nose or does he split time with Triplett?

[TedMock]

McCargo becomes the key.

he HAS to become a good 1 gap NT

That's what he is. I'm more concerned with not having a true 2-gapper. I understand the defense and how it's designed. However, in certain situations and schemes, you need a quality 2-gap DT to take blockers away from the 1-gap. How much more effective could Tripplett have been had he not been double teamed? Fighting off double teams is part of the game, but guys like Tim Anderson weren't even requiring a chip let alone a double team.

Having said that, I think Walker is a good pickup at good price. He's a quality DT who will produce for us. I watched McCargo play in college and he's also a quality DT (well, at least he was in college). I think the overall rotation is a good one now. You just can't run the same defense every play.

[Saratoga Slim]

That's what he is. I'm more concerned with not having a true 2-gapper. I understand the defense and how it's designed. However, in certain situations and schemes, you need a quality 2-gap DT to take blockers away from the 1-gap. How much more effective could Tripplett have been had he not been double teamed? Fighting off double teams is part of the game, but guys like Tim Anderson weren't even requiring a chip let alone a double team.


I think you and Pat are talking about the same position.

[acehole]

yes


With Walker now in the fold the Bills top 4 DTs are pretty much locked in place. What concerns me is that there is not a 300lber in the bunch. This would be o.k. if the Bills had a T. Harris/W. Sapp type of player, but that does not appear to be the case (unless McCargo develops quickly). I will admit that I wanted the Hawks to get Okoye because he has the potential to be a Tommie Harris/Warren Sapp.

The history of the Cover 2 is that it is an effective defense when you have (1) a premier DT (i.e., Sapp/Harris) and (2) a linebacker with safety speed (i.e., Urlacher/Brooks) OR an unstopable offense (i.e., Indy).

I hope Marv and co. know what they are doing. The draft will be critical to rebuild what is now a gutted linebacker corps.

[Jan Reimers]

Less than yesterday, but I do think we could use a Ted Washington/Pat Williams/Sam Adams type to stuff the run.

[Night Train]

With 5 picks through Round 4, I could see another DT.

You make a valid point.

[ddaryl]

With 5 picks through Round 4, I could see another DT.

You make a valid point.

It's possible but then who gets cut.

We are already sporting a full rotation of DT's. If we draft a DT someone is getting cut.

Honestly I don't see the Bill staking a DT this year, they drafted McCargo and Williams last year, and traded for Walker this year. There will be no DT's on draft day IMO, but if they did Jefferson is the odd duck

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=altRow1 align=middle>99</TD><TD class=altRow1>Jefferson, Jason (http://buffalobills.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=122695)</TD><TD class=altRow1 align=middle>DT</TD><TD class=altRow1 align=middle>6-1</TD><TD class=altRow1 align=middle>295</TD><TD class=altRow1 align=middle>25</TD><TD class=altRow1 align=middle>2</TD><TD class=altRow1>Wisconsin</TD></TR><TR><TD class=altRow2 align=middle>97</TD><TD class=altRow2>McCargo, John (http://buffalobills.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=122669)</TD><TD class=altRow2 align=middle>DT</TD><TD class=altRow2 align=middle>6-2</TD><TD class=altRow2 align=middle>295</TD><TD class=altRow2 align=middle>23</TD><TD class=altRow2 align=middle>R</TD><TD class=altRow2>N.C. State</TD></TR><TR><TD class=altRow1 align=middle>98</TD><TD class=altRow1>Tripplett, Larry (http://buffalobills.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=122651)</TD><TD class=altRow1 align=middle>DT</TD><TD class=altRow1 align=middle>6-2</TD><TD class=altRow1 align=middle>295</TD><TD class=altRow1 align=middle>28</TD><TD class=altRow1 align=middle>5</TD><TD class=altRow1>Washington</TD></TR><TR><TD class=altRow2 align=middle>--</TD><TD class=altRow2>Walker, Darwin (http://buffalobills.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=122716)</TD><TD class=altRow2 align=middle>DT</TD><TD class=altRow2 align=middle>6-3</TD><TD class=altRow2 align=middle>294</TD><TD class=altRow2 align=middle>29</TD><TD class=altRow2 align=middle>9</TD><TD class=altRow2>Tennessee</TD></TR><TR><TD class=altRow1 align=middle>95</TD><TD class=altRow1>Williams, Kyle (http://buffalobills.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=122672)</TD><TD class=altRow1 align=middle>DT</TD><TD class=altRow1 align=middle>6-1</TD><TD class=altRow1 align=middle>295</TD><TD class=altRow1 align=middle>23</TD><TD class=altRow1 align=middle>R</TD><TD class=altRow1>LSU</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Jeff1220]

Stopping the run in this system is not about "stuffing the hole" but more about penetration. If these DTs can make it into the backfield, they will be able to dispupt and blow up plays - both run and pass.

[BuffaloRanger]

Didn't the Bills prove beyond a shadow of a doubt last year the folly of the "Small, fast, DTs theory". They couldn't stop the run up the gut all year long. Period.

Seriously. It doesn't work. They will be tore up through the middle once again.

And you basically have Tripplet and Walker playing the same postion. WTF is that? Paying two salaries for one DT? I understand the rotation philosophy, but then you always have one of them on the bench. Seems like overkill.

[The Answer]

With Walker now in the fold the Bills top 4 DTs are pretty much locked in place. What concerns me is that there is not a 300lber in the bunch. This would be o.k. if the Bills had a T. Harris/W. Sapp type of player, but that does not appear to be the case (unless McCargo develops quickly). I will admit that I wanted the Hawks to get Okoye because he has the potential to be a Tommie Harris/Warren Sapp.

The history of the Cover 2 is that it is an effective defense when you have (1) a premier DT (i.e., Sapp/Harris) and (2) a linebacker with safety speed (i.e., Urlacher/Brooks) OR an unstopable offense (i.e., Indy).

I hope Marv and co. know what they are doing. The draft will be critical to rebuild what is now a gutted linebacker corps.

The Answer is very concerned. We have a great group of pass rushing DT's, but no beasts that are true run stoppers.

Also what does acquiring Walker mean for McCargo? Have they conceded to bust status already?

~The Answer

[gr8slayer]

I haven't been concerned about it, I think were perfectly fine and have some great depth now for a rotation system. I would be very PO'd if we still drafted a DT in the first round.

[patmoran2006]

For better or worse; their DT's are set. They have four rotational guys... I refuse to even count Timmay Tim Anderson

[OpIv37]

I haven't been concerned about it, I think were perfectly fine and have some great depth now for a rotation system. I would be very PO'd if we still drafted a DT in the first round.

the rotation is fine but we're rotating a bunch of guys who can't stop the run. I really do not think the "shoot the gap with small DT's" scheme works. At the very least it puts us in a SEVERE disadvantage in short yardage situations.

[madness]

We had one starter and a role player starting with a single piece of crap filling in the rotation. We also had two slow LB's who would let a cold slip by for 5 yards.

Now we have a full rotation with two starters and we will have a very fast, aggressive LB core.

DT is not a concern IMO.

[OpIv37]

We had one starter and a role player starting with a single piece of crap filling in the rotation. We also had two slow LB's who would let a cold slip by for 5 yards.

Now we have a full rotation with two starters and we will have a very fast, aggressive LB core.

DT is not a concern IMO.

We don't even have a full LB corps. Our DL should be better at rushing the pass, but that all depends on McCargo's recovery and development and K Williams' development. And the DL still lacks any proficient run stuffers.

Is the DL better than it was yesterday? Yes, slightly, but our LB's are worse and one DT in a rotational system does NOT make our DL all that much better. Your post is full of unwarranted optimism based on players who haven't proven anything yet.

[Saratoga Slim]

We don't even have a full LB corps. Our DL should be better at rushing the pass, but that all depends on McCargo's recovery and development and K Williams' development. And the DL still lacks any proficient run stuffers.

Is the DL better than it was yesterday? Yes, slightly, but our LB's are worse and one DT in a rotational system does NOT make our DL all that much better. Your post is full of unwarranted optimism based on players who haven't proven anything yet.

We'll draft a LB in the 1st or 2nd and another in later rounds and be OK.

I don't think its too optimistic to say that we'll have a better pass rush with Darwin here. He's legitimately good at that regardless of whether McCargo or Triplett improve. The real question is whether our run D is any better.

[madness]

We don't even have a full LB corps. Our DL should be better at rushing the pass, but that all depends on McCargo's recovery and development and K Williams' development. And the DL still lacks any proficient run stuffers.

Is the DL better than it was yesterday? Yes, slightly, but our LB's are worse and one DT in a rotational system does NOT make our DL all that much better. Your post is full of unwarranted optimism based on players who haven't proven anything yet.

I said we WILL about the LB core. Considering we have two out of three, I'd say the odds are in our favor.

Walker, Tripplett, Williams and McCargo is just slightly better then Anderson, Tripplett and Williams? You post is full of unwarranted pessimism based on your ****ty attitude toward the Bills until they start winning. I said I'm not concerned about the DT position and I don't have to go into an in depth analysis on why I feel that way to every single person that disagrees with me. I have no problem with letting Marv do his job.

[OpIv37]

I said we WILL about the LB core. Considering we have two out of three, I'd say the odds are in our favor.

Walker, Tripplett, Williams and McCargo is just slightly better then Anderson, Tripplett and Williams? You post is full of unwarranted pessimism based on your ****ty attitude toward the Bills until they start winning. I said I'm not concerned about the DT position and I don't have to go into an in depth analysis on why I feel that way to every single person that disagrees with me. I have no problem with letting Marv do his job.

well your opinion is wrong- this DT has a long way to go when it comes to stopping the run. If you can't see it, don't blame my pessimism.

[madness]

well your opinion is wrong- this DT has a long way to go when it comes to stopping the run. If you can't see it, don't blame my pessimism.

So is yours unless your psychic. If you can't see that then you're not psychic after all, are you? I guess we'll just have to wait and see until they actually play a game. I don't tell people they are wrong unless I know they are wrong. Otherwise I'd be just setting myself up to look like a fool later on.

[OpIv37]

So is yours unless your psychic. If you can't see that then you're not psychic after all, are you? I guess we'll just have to wait and see until they actually play a game. I don't tell people they are wrong unless I know they are wrong. Otherwise I'd be just setting myself up to look like a fool later on.

see, here's the thing- I'm basing my opinion on past performance. You're basing yours on conjecture. While past performance isn't a perfect indicator, I'll take it over conjecture any day of the week.

[feelthepain]

McCargo becomes the key.

he HAS to become a good 1 gap NT

Considering how weak the Bills LB's are McCargo needs to be a 2 gaper other wise your LB's will be of little help. The LB's need to be as free as possible to help plug holes. If your LB's are trying to fend off a T, C or G they will be of little help in run support. But if McCargo is gobling up blockers it leaves the LB's free to get into the backfield and disrupt the play.

[madness]

see, here's the thing- I'm basing my opinion on past performance. You're basing yours on conjecture. While past performance isn't a perfect indicator, I'll take it over conjecture any day of the week.

Then that's were we disagree. I look at it and see too many new variables to base it on past performance. So I'll take those variables and apply them to what is likely to be true forming my conjecture. I'd only look at past performance if I knew everything remained constant.

[OpIv37]

Then that's were we disagree. I look at it and see too many new variables to base it on past performance. So I'll take those variables and apply them to what is likely to be true forming my conjecture. I'd only look at past performance if I knew everything remained constant.

it doesn't remain constant but you're expecting an unreasonable amount of change given the minor tweak to our DT situation.