Disgruntled Vets vs. Buffalo Management

[raphael120]

As demoralizing as it was to see Takeo Spikes traded to Philadelphia, it’s hard to not to lose some respect for him following comments made to a radio station in Philadelphia. According to Star 102.5 in Buffalo, when asked if Spikes would keep his family in Buffalo, Spikes responded by saying "we will be out of Buffalo in the speed of light." Not a lot of class coming from a player taken in as one of it’s own by loyal fans.· Lastly, though I admit being disgusted by Spikes’ unnecessary digs at Buffalo, it’s alarming that nearly every veteran that’s left over the past 3+ seasons has had negative things to say on their way out. Ruben Brown, Pat Williams, Eric Moulds, Sam Adams, Lawyer Milloy, Nate Clements, Willis McGahee, London Fletcher and now Spikes have all made digs at the team and/or front office upon their departures. Makes you wonder if they could all be wrong? Is this a collection of aging, disgruntled veterans—or is this just really a franchise being run far inferior to most others around the league?


So what does everyone think? Are these just disgruntled players or is there something seriously wrong with the FO at OBD mistreating vets? I think if anything, it's the frustration with Ralphie boy...lets see, in the past 3-4 years theyve had major issues each time. First it's the coach, then the GM, then the QB, etc... You have to admit, the Bills organization has not been the most stable organization in the league, and if you were working for a bunch of numbnuts who couldnt seem to hire the right people and were losing perennially, you can't tell me YOU would want the hell out. It's just sad that our team is one of those teams that couldn't get their crap together. When youre a team that has as many losing seasons as the Bills do, and it's hard enough to attract talent, having so many respected vets leaving with a bitter taste in their mouths is discouraging. Lets hope come this year, it stops.

[jamesiscool]

this is what i dont understand. when we had pat williams sam adamslawyer london a spikes on the roster we never went to the playoffs. why keep these guys around if having them never meant winning games.

I'm NOT syaing that it was these players faults that we didn't win but why have players on the roster that never really won for us. yes our D was rated 2nd in the league a few years ago but what were the past 2-3 years.

I'm Happy that this team is getting a facelift and we are building through the draft.

[Ed]

I don't think this only applies to Buffalo. The NFL is a cut throat business. Most players leave on sour terms, or they most likely wouldn't be leaving.

Plus, this is a new front office and coaching staff. You can't blame Marv for any negative comments or feelings from guys like Ruben Brown, Pat Williams, Sam Adams and Moulds. It's Donahoe and Mularkey/GW that f'd with those guys.

[patmoran2006]

this is what i dont understand. when we had pat williams sam adamslawyer london a spikes on the roster we never went to the playoffs. why keep these guys around if having them never meant winning games.

I'm NOT syaing that it was these players faults that we didn't win but why have players on the roster that never really won for us. yes our D was rated 2nd in the league a few years ago but what were the past 2-3 years.

I'm Happy that this team is getting a facelift and we are building through the draft.
I think the biggest reason we didnt make the playoffs during that span was because of absolutely horrible coaching.

To this day, I think Mularkey was the single worst head coach in this club's history, and that includes the Hank Bulllough and Kay Stephenson-led teams of the 1980's. At least they had an excuse; those teams had no talent.

With Mularkey it's different. He had no clue on how to manage on game days, and he was horrible at maintaning team chemistry.

The person that would've been the perfect coach during this span with all of those defensive stars is actually the person who's GM today; Marv Levy.

Marv was never a great X's and O's guy, but what he did better than ANY coach was manage a team full of egos and teaching them to leave it at the door.

Mularkey was horrible and totally lost his team. Donahoe didnt help much either, because besides the dubious hire, the drafting of McGahee and then trade of Henry was horrible, not to mention the disaster 2002 draft when we took Mike Williams and Josh Reed over Bryant McKinnie and Deon Branch in back to back rounds.

[Ed]

Plus, don't forget that Spikes had worse things to say about the Cincy organization when he left there.

[justasportsfan]

Most if not all of those vets were either questionmarks (Spikes) or on the downside of their careers. Besides, what did the team achieve while they were here? Nothing.

fans want to complain about mediocrity? These guys were part of it. They're just sourgraping because we went with youth.

What I can't understand is how Brown and Williams is part of that list when Marv wasn't running things when they were let go. Pat even said last year that if Marv was the GM , he would probably still be a bill.

[Bill Brasky]

i could care less if these brats drown me in their tears of envy. i've seen more guts in 11 year old kids than i have in these millionaire cowards. they sugar coat everything while they're here, everything is kosher, and when they leave the gloves come off. i have more respect for john rocker. at least he says what he feels instead of giving you a load of crap.

let these overpaid, overhyped thugs go shoot up a night club and impregnant unwed mothers in another city.

baltimore isn't really a party scene, willis, but i'm sure you'll find a way to lose your condoms - just like how you lost yardage on third and short - in some sort of "U"-infested night club

philly sports teams haven't won **** in almost 30 years, takeo, but i'm sure you'll find more than enough grease at pat's to lube up that bum knee.

washington is like that shiny bmwx5 that costs an arm and a leg, then breaks down after 10k miles, london, but hey - you'll get paid - just like bruce, brunell, deion and all the other overpaid castoffs on the downside of their career but too dull to realize it.

talk all the **** you want guys, bottom line, you did nothing for us while you were here. maybe if you had won us a playoff game or even took the field in a remotely competitive manner, i could see the justification in your smack... but until you prove on the field you're a star, stfu and spare me.

[The Answer]

[/font]


So what does everyone think? Are these just disgruntled players or is there something seriously wrong with the FO at OBD mistreating vets? I think if anything, it's the frustration with Ralphie boy...lets see, in the past 3-4 years theyve had major issues each time. First it's the coach, then the GM, then the QB, etc... You have to admit, the Bills organization has not been the most stable organization in the league, and if you were working for a bunch of numbnuts who couldnt seem to hire the right people and were losing perennially, you can't tell me YOU would want the hell out. It's just sad that our team is one of those teams that couldn't get their crap together. When youre a team that has as many losing seasons as the Bills do, and it's hard enough to attract talent, having so many respected vets leaving with a bitter taste in their mouths is discouraging. Lets hope come this year, it stops.

It's the front office - no question about it.

What player that has left in recent years has actually had something good to say???

~The Answer

[patmoran2006]

Plus, don't forget that Spikes had worse things to say about the Cincy organization when he left there.
Actually, I was at the Spikes press conference when he signed with Buffalo; and he pretty much refused to even discuss Cinci, kinda what he's trying to do now with the Philly media.

I remember spikes during his initial Buffalo P.C. making several references to Japenese Warrriors. I remember it vividly because I was standing next to Jonas Jenning (teammate at that time and former U of Georgia teammates) and saying "what the F is he talking about."

I dont mind Spikes throwing a couple of verbal jabs at the Bills FO and questioning their committment to winning (I question it too); but as I stated in a peice earlier to say that his family will be out of Buffalo like "the speed of light" was a pretty discraceful thing to say.

Spikes' home in Buffalo will cost about 3% of what it will in Philly. Lets see you how like that, **** face.

[justasportsfan]

I think the biggest reason we didnt make the playoffs during that span was because of absolutely horrible coaching.

To this day, I think Mularkey was the single worst head coach in this club's history, and that includes the Hank Bulllough and Kay Stephenson-led teams of the 1980's. At least they had an excuse; those teams had no talent.

With Mularkey it's different. He had no clue on how to manage on game days, and he was horrible at maintaning team chemistry.

The person that would've been the perfect coach during this span with all of those defensive stars is actually the person who's GM today; Marv Levy.

Marv was never a great X's and O's guy, but what he did better than ANY coach was manage a team full of egos and teaching them to leave it at the door.

Mularkey was horrible and totally lost his team. Donahoe didnt help much either, because besides the dubious hire, the drafting of McGahee and then trade of Henry was horrible, not to mention the disaster 2002 draft when we took Mike Williams and Josh Reed over Bryant McKinnie and Deon Branch in back to back rounds.


that all falls on TD's head not Marv's. Milloy and Vincent had no place in this scheme and neither did Fletcher. Fletcher's main beef was that they didn't want to sign him to an extension in his last year. Why should they? If that's so wrong then BB was stupid for letting Milloy go. That's not the case.

[Ed]

Actually, I was at the Spikes press conference when he signed with Buffalo; and he pretty much refused to even discuss Cinci, kinda what he's trying to do now with the Philly media.

I remember spikes during his initial Buffalo P.C. making several references to Japenese Warrriors. I remember it vividly because I was standing next to Jonas Jenning (teammate at that time and former U of Georgia teammates) and saying "what the F is he talking about."

I dont mind Spikes throwing a couple of verbal jabs at the Bills FO and questioning their committment to winning (I question it too); but as I stated in a peice earlier to say that his family will be out of Buffalo like "the speed of light" was a pretty discraceful thing to say.

Spikes' home in Buffalo will cost about 3% of what it will in Philly. Lets see you how like that, **** face.

Yeah, I was thinking more before he even signed with the Bills. It was kind of a similar situation to Lance Briggs, but you're right, I don't remember him actually ripping on the city of Cincinatti itself.

Although I don't think his comment about getting out of Buffalo was that bad. He's always said positive things about the fans and community, maybe it's more that he's just excited and ready for a fresh start in Philly and less about getting the hell out of Buffalo.

[Bill Brasky]

I also don't think it helps any that at any given chance Buffalo fans go ballistic and give off the aura of a bunch of knee-jerk-reaction cry babies... that and the fact that NYS spent nearly a century making most of the state uninhabitable.

[Ed]

that all falls on TD's head not Marv's. Milloy and Vincent had no place in this scheme and neither did Fletcher. Fletcher's main beef was that they didn't want to sign him to an extension in his last year. Why should they? If that's so wrong then BB was stupid for letting Milloy go. That's not the case.
Yeah, I don't recall London saying anything negative about Buffalo. He just wanted a contract extension and didn't get it. It's not like he hated Buffalo or didn't want to be here.

[DMBcrew36]

I think the players are mostly pissed that they wasted big chunks of their careers with a team that never made the playoffs and has been mediochre at best

[patmoran2006]

Actually, he directly or indirectly insulted the city of Buffalo during this interview (and I dont have the link, but it was on both wyrk and star 102 this morning)

He said Buffalo was a city of "little to do" especially outside of the city; and that.. again , he was moving his family "like the speed of light" out of Buffalo.

Now anybody who's read a thing I've written in the past few weeks KNOWS I was a huge Spikes supporter and fought for him to not be traded.. But after those comments, I'm glad his ass is gone now.

[Bill Brasky]

I think the players are probably pissed they wasted a big chunks of their careers with a team that never made the playoffs and has been mediochre at best
who's fault is that? blame management all you want, but management didn't wear #51, 21, 59, and 22 on the field. if these guys wanted to win, they'd come out and dominate, not give a half-assed effort like they did last year... not to mention throw their QB completely under the bus while Mularkey was here.

i still contend that willis blatantly played himself outta here by tanking on the field.

[justasportsfan]

Yeah, I don't recall London saying anything negative about Buffalo. He just wanted a contract extension and didn't get it. It's not like he hated Buffalo or didn't want to be here.
that probably justifies us cutting his ass. Nobody cared about him to ask his opinions. :snicker:

[justasportsfan]

Actually, he directly or indirectly insulted the city of Buffalo during this interview (and I dont have the link, but it was on both wyrk and star 102 this morning)

He said Buffalo was a city of "little to do" especially outside of the city; and that.. again , he was moving his family "like the speed of light" out of Buffalo.

Now anybody who's read a thing I've written in the past few weeks KNOWS I was a huge Spikes supporter and fought for him to not be traded.. But after those comments, I'm glad his ass is gone now.


he chose to come here because of the fans. He did give the fans props by saying we were the best fnas in the NFL. My questions is, how does blasting their city repay the fans that loved him? :idunno:

[Ed]

he chose to come here because of the fans. He did give the fans props by saying we were the best fnas in the NFL. My questions is, how does blasting their city repay the fans that loved him? :idunno:
Yeah, but how many fans or people in Buffalo or who are from Buffalo blast the city and area too? Isn't the regions population on the decline? Don't get me wrong, I love Buffalo and the Bills, but there are other places I'd rather live.

And that doesn't justify what he said, he could have phrased things differently, but it's not like his opinions and feelings aren't shared by a lot of people in and from Buffalo, not just former Bills' players.

[Bill Brasky]

Yeah, but how many fans or people in Buffalo or who are from Buffalo blast the city and area too? Isn't the regions population on the decline? Don't get me wrong, I love Buffalo and the Bills, but there are other places I'd rather live.

And that doesn't justify what he said, he could have phrased things differently, but it's not like his opinions and feelings aren't shared by a lot of people in and from Buffalo, not just former Bills' players.

I wish I could go on the TV and the Radio and blast my former employers and their crap-ass towns. It'd be real professional of me.

[justasportsfan]

Yeah, but how many fans or people in Buffalo or who are from Buffalo blast the city and area too? Isn't the regions population on the decline? Don't get me wrong, I love Buffalo and the Bills, but there are other places I'd rather live.

And that doesn't justify what he said, he could have phrased things differently, but it's not like his opinions and feelings aren't shared by a lot of people in and from Buffalo, not just former Bills' players.
either ways, that wasn't proffessional of him. I'm not gonna lose any sleep over his departure even if he becaomse a probowler again.

[Ed]

either ways, that wasn't proffessional of him. I'm not gonna lose any sleep over his departure even if he becaomse a probowler again.
Me neither and that's why I'm not outraged by it. I agree that it was stupid and unproffesional though. Nothing good can come from making comments like that so there's really no point.

In the end it makes Takeo look bad not us.

[AndreReed83]

It seems like most players blast the team and/or city they are leaving. Why not? It endears you to your new fans, makes television media pundits like ESPN go, "*tee hee* Well, you probably shouldn't say stuff like that.", and it only pisses off your previous fans.

I hate it, but there really isn't enough of a backlash to stop players from doing it.

[justasportsfan]

I just hope Marv has the last laugh.

[PromoTheRobot]

[/FONT]


So what does everyone think? Are these just disgruntled players or is there something seriously wrong with the FO at OBD mistreating vets? I think if anything, it's the frustration with Ralphie boy...lets see, in the past 3-4 years theyve had major issues each time. First it's the coach, then the GM, then the QB, etc... You have to admit, the Bills organization has not been the most stable organization in the league, and if you were working for a bunch of numbnuts who couldnt seem to hire the right people and were losing perennially, you can't tell me YOU would want the hell out. It's just sad that our team is one of those teams that couldn't get their crap together. When youre a team that has as many losing seasons as the Bills do, and it's hard enough to attract talent, having so many respected vets leaving with a bitter taste in their mouths is discouraging. Lets hope come this year, it stops.

Which front office/coach are we talking about? Greggo? Meathead? Donahoe? Levy? Most of these guys left town under Donahoe's watch. Levy/Jauron have only had one year under their belt.

PTR

[HHURRICANE]

Marv vs. TD

People coming in for Marv won't be leaving with the same attitude. Marv is a straight shooter. TD was a liar and a sneeky POS.

This is not about the organization. It's about the pomises made by TD that he couldn't deliver on. As any good snake-oil salesman will tell you there won't be any returning customers.

[Jan Reimers]

Why don't we - as fans - blast these *****ing, disgruntled veterans?

As in, "Hey, you overpaid babies, you never led us to even one playoff appearance, and you never won a single crucial game."

I've often said why, as just a fan, do I care more than many of our players seem to?

I smply feel we have never - in the last 10 years - had the players with the hearts we had in our Super Bowl years.

[Statman]

Most if not all of those vets were either questionmarks (Spikes) or on the downside of their careers. Besides, what did the team achieve while they were here? Nothing.

fans want to complain about mediocrity? These guys were part of it. They're just sourgraping because we went with youth.

What I can't understand is how Brown and Williams is part of that list when Marv wasn't running things when they were let go. Pat even said last year that if Marv was the GM , he would probably still be a bill.
LOL

Of the nine players listed only Milloy and McGahee were mediocre. Every other players was well above average or among the best at their position at least at some point while with the Bills.

Funny though, only on a Bills message board would a question like this seriously be asked.

[raphael120]

spikes played his heart out, as did fletch, and clements played when he needed to. i remember a miami game about 4, 5 years ago when we shut out new england that one year and clements INT for a TD were the only points scored. you have to admit when your FO doesnt want to be serious about contending by bringing in the right coaches, personel, why in the hell should you be serious about contending? being in such a negative place, no matter how positive you are, will bring you down eventually. i think thats why you see spikes, fletch, leaving. high character guys that are just wanting to go to the big one, and they did waste years. but you know whose fault that is? Ralph and TD.

[justasportsfan]

LOL

Of the nine players listed only Milloy and McGahee were mediocre. Every other players was well above average or among the best at their position at least at some point while with the Bills.

Funny though, only on a Bills message board would a question like this seriously be asked.

At SOME POINT, I agree. NOt when they were let go. Again comprehension problems.

You gotta be kidding me. Dude you are the one who kept whining for YEARS about how horrible the bills moves were. These guys were on the team that you kept beating the dead horse about.


Vincent was good? You're dreaming. Posey? Puhlease. Granted Pat Williams was good, NO ONE THOUGHT HE WAS WORTH WAS HE WAS paid when he left and Marv wasn't the one who let him go.


Do you think Clements is worth 80 million?

Like I said, stick to spining stats to fit your argument. If you took away all those players best years, they stunk :lol:

[Ultra Chimp 1]

this is what i dont understand. when we had pat williams sam adamslawyer london a spikes on the roster we never went to the playoffs. why keep these guys around if having them never meant winning games.

I'm NOT syaing that it was these players faults that we didn't win but why have players on the roster that never really won for us. yes our D was rated 2nd in the league a few years ago but what were the past 2-3 years.

I'm Happy that this team is getting a facelift and we are building through the draft.

So explain to me how JP Losman, whose abysmal 8-16 record as an NFL starter, is our quarterback?

[patmoran2006]

Pat Williams got $13 million for three years, a $6 Million SB included with Minnesota.

Considering he was the ANCHOR of that DL and nobody ran up the middle when Williams and Adams were here, that contract was a steal.

It was a terrible and egotistical move by TD to let him go, and to this day its the move that single-handedly started the downslide of a dominant defense.

[Statman]

spikes played his heart out, as did fletch, and clements played when he needed to. i remember a miami game about 4, 5 years ago when we shut out new england that one year and clements INT for a TD were the only points scored. you have to admit when your FO doesnt want to be serious about contending by bringing in the right coaches, personel, why in the hell should you be serious about contending? being in such a negative place, no matter how positive you are, will bring you down eventually. i think thats why you see spikes, fletch, leaving. high character guys that are just wanting to go to the big one, and they did waste years. but you know whose fault that is? Ralph and TD.
Nicely summed up.

[patmoran2006]

All of the guys let go over the past 1.5 seasons except for Clements were past their prime.

But if I am them I do feel they deserve to have sour grapes. .They had a championship calibre defense and it was screwed up by a horrible head coach and an egotistical madman GM . Not to boot a woeful OL that put them on the field far too long.

If you were a player and you gave up yer prime years to play on a good team and that team went no where, you'd probably have rotten things to say about the front office & organization as well. I have no problem with that, I'd likely do the same.

What I do have a problem with is Spikes and especially mcGahee taking verbal digs at the City of Buffalo in general, which is total bull****. This town treats their players great, even when they lose. Look at the Sabres, those guys are like GODS around town nowadways.

I dont know who Spikes is kidding.. Philadelphia will ****ing boo SANTA CLAUS. They boo children on father-son day at the park if the Phillies are playing bad. Just wait until he sees what happens if he never gets back to his old self, and that team starts losing.

[Statman]

At SOME POINT, I agree. NOt when they were let go. Again comprehension problems.

You gotta be kidding me. Dude you are the one who kept whining for YEARS about how horrible the bills moves were. These guys were on the team that you kept beating the dead horse about.


Vincent was good? You're dreaming. Posey? Puhlease. Granted Pat Williams was good, NO ONE THOUGHT HE WAS WORTH WAS HE WAS paid when he left and Marv wasn't the one who let him go.


Do you think Clements is worth 80 million?

Like I said, stick to spining stats to fit your argument. If you took away all those players best years, they stunk :lol:
Vincent and Posey were not on the list.

What was that you were saying about "comprehension problems?"

Check the list and name any other of the seven other players and let us know which were ever only mediocre.

My complaints of the past were the position areas where the team addressed or didn't address the problems. Note, the only OL-man on that list was Brown and he was unceremoniously released. Besides Peters and Brown can you name one above-mediocre offensive lineman that we've had on the team within the last five seasons? Peters was an "accident" and pleasant surprise not a planned thing, and Brown was released for lesser players and still with a couple of good seasons left in him. I was never in favor of the release of Brown.

But hey, that's what you get when you have "leaders" that don't understand the value of lines and that can't accurately assess talent or issues with it in taking appropriate risks for where the team is.

AKa selecting Adrian Peterson is far too risky for where we are now as a team.

Marv may not have been the one that let Williams go, but he is the one that brought on board Tripplett at huge expense, McCargo for two picks when he may have been there anyway with the first of the two, and now Walker who's also no better than anyone we have. The Eagles, with Walker as a starter last season were not much better than we were on D, especially in their front four.

[justasportsfan]

Pat Williams got $13 million for three years, a $6 Million SB included with Minnesota.

Considering he was the ANCHOR of that DL and nobody ran up the middle when Williams and Adams were here, that contract was a steal.

It was a terrible and egotistical move by TD to let him go, and to this day its the move that single-handedly started the downslide of a dominant defense.


In hindsight it was too much money at that time . We could only afford to sign one of our 3 FA. Schobel , Jennings and Williams. Of course we ended up re-signing Schobel. Edwards was having a great season playing in rotation with Williams. How would we have known that he would have a season ending injury the next year.

Agree however that whatever went wrong, TD should be blamed , not Marv.

[justasportsfan]

Vincent and Posey were not on the list.

What was that you were saying about "comprehension problems?"

Check the list and name any other of the seven other players and let us know which were ever only mediocre.

My complaints of the past were the position areas where the team addressed or didn't address the problems. Note, the only OL-man on that list was Brown and he was unceremoniously released. Besides Peters and Brown can you name one above-mediocre offensive lineman that we've had on the team within the last five seasons? Peters was an "accident" and pleasant surprise not a planned thing, and Brown was released for lesser players and still with a couple of good seasons left in him. I was never in favor of the release of Brown.

But hey, that's what you get when you have "leaders" that don't understand the value of lines and that can't accurately assess talent or issues with it in taking appropriate risks for where the team is.

AKa selecting Adrian Peterson is far too risky for where we are now as a team.

Marv may not have been the one that let Williams go, but he is the one that brought on board Tripplett at huge expense, McCargo for two picks when he may have been there anyway with the first of the two, and now Walker who's also no better than anyone we have. The Eagles, with Walker as a starter last season were not much better than we were on D, especially in their front four.

Vincent and Milloy were not on that list but they were players that Spikes b1tched about. Can't you read between the lines?

And you're ready to call all of Marv's moves a bust after 1 year? Funny. No matter what you say, whatever Marv did in that first year he outdid your expectations of the bills finishing worse in franchise history. Cmon man, you were wrong BIGTIME.

You were so wrong and you're ready to criticize him again. You know , you could be right. They could stink but so far you got caught with your head up your behind ;)

[Statman]

All of the guys let go over the past 1.5 seasons except for Clements were past their prime.
And replaced with guys smack in the middle of their primes yet worse than those past their primes.

There are more than one side to the equations. Everything cannot simply be boiled down to addition by subtraction. Talent must be brought in to replace and improve it. We are one of the worst teams in the league, under Donahoe or Levy, in doing that.

I didn't see any kind of housecleaning in the Bills personnel department when Levy came on board, did you.

We cut Henry before his prime. We released Brown for a string of nothing Gs afterwards. The team pissed Jennings, our best lineman, off. Sam Adams wasn't great any more, but we replaced him with lesser players yet more expensive. Ditto for Pat Williams.

The team is now paying for its past mismanagement in varying ways.

One of those is that few players want to come here. It was entirely predictable, but only for people with a shred of vision. Again, not something that this organization is blessed with.

As to this fall, I have no idea how we are going to stop much of anything. A pair of safeties and one DE aren't going to cut it.

If the Bills were any other team the same people defending it would be laughing at it. Hope is one thing, but that hope must be predicated on something other than just the word "hope."

[Statman]

Vincent and Milloy were not on that list but they were players that Spikes b1tched about. Can't you read between the lines?

And you're ready to call all of Marv's moves a bust after 1 year? Funny. No matter what you say, whatever Marv did in that first year he outdid your expectations of the bills finishing worse in franchise history. Cmon man, you were wrong BIGTIME.

You were so wrong and you're ready to criticize him again. You know , you could be right. They could stink but so far you got caught with your head up your behind ;)

What, breaking in your new thong underwear today or what. Did ya take it to the cleaners for starching first?

:D

I'm not gonna get into the weeds on this again.

[justasportsfan]

And replaced with guys smack in the middle of their primes yet worse than those past their primes.


after 1 year. haha! Yeah, MccArgo is sure in the middle of his prime and so is KYle Williams. Funny!

Tripplet is very well adjusted to his new teammates. :snicker:

Why don't you wait and see how the team does in it's second year before you start calling Marv's moves a bust. So what's you prediction this year, 4-11?

BTw, you left my quote where I said Spikes is questionable.

[justasportsfan]

What, breaking in your new thong underwear today or what. Did ya take it to the cleaners for starching first?

:D

I'm not gonna get into the weeds on this again.


Wow. I'm sure the dead horse will be happy that you stopped beating it.....for now. :phew:

[Statman]

Wow. I'm sure the dead horse will be happy that you stopped beating it.....for now. :phew:
It's lyin' on top of the finish line. I figure why bother anymore.

;)

[patmoran2006]

And replaced with guys smack in the middle of their primes yet worse than those past their primes.

There are more than one side to the equations. Everything cannot simply be boiled down to addition by subtraction. Talent must be brought in to replace and improve it. We are one of the worst teams in the league, under Donahoe or Levy, in doing that.

I didn't see any kind of housecleaning in the Bills personnel department when Levy came on board, did you.

We cut Henry before his prime. We released Brown for a string of nothing Gs afterwards. The team pissed Jennings, our best lineman, off. Sam Adams wasn't great any more, but we replaced him with lesser players yet more expensive. Ditto for Pat Williams.

The team is now paying for its past mismanagement in varying ways.

One of those is that few players want to come here. It was entirely predictable, but only for people with a shred of vision. Again, not something that this organization is blessed with.

As to this fall, I have no idea how we are going to stop much of anything. A pair of safeties and one DE aren't going to cut it.

If the Bills were any other team the same people defending it would be laughing at it. Hope is one thing, but that hope must be predicated on something other than just the word "hope."
You're preaching to the choir.

A team doesnt miss the playoffs SEVEN straight seasons unless it is bad starting at the very top. This team obviously has been.

And I'm also not one of those "In Marv we trust" guys either. I've hated some of his moves already, particularly in last year's joke of a FA class.

Donahoe deserves most of the blame for this team, but Levy's fingerprints are starting to smother it as well.

* Every person on our DL other than Schobel is someone Levy has either drafted, signed or resigned himself.

* I cant even get into LB's because besides Crowell (TD guy) and Ellison (Marv) we dont have any.

* Our secondary other than McGee has Levy's fingerprints all over it.

* Levy passed on Cutler and Leinart and kept Losman.. If JP suceeds, props to Marv. But one way or the other, Levy's fingerprints are on JP now.

* Other than Evans (TD guy), our entire WR corp was brought in by Marv, as well at TE (Royal).. So Marv's fingerprints are all over it too. Even by resigning A-Train, our backfield is all on Marv too now.

Basically, this is Marv's team and he's not "cleaning up TD's mess anymore." His stamp is now all over this team. He resigned Kelsay when he was a FA. That makes him a Marv guy now, not a TD guy.

For the record, as bad overall at TD was, you take a look at the stars of this team that remain and they're all leftover from the TD era (Peters, Losman, EVans, Schobel, Crowell)..

HOwever-- In fairness to Marv, 1.25 offseasons isnt enough to judge him yet--he hasnt even had his second draft. But from this point (2007) on, if this team is good or sucks, that's on the current staff's head, not the past.

.

[justasportsfan]

It's lyin' on top of the finish line. I figure why bother anymore.

;)

Okay Johnsonite. :D

[patmoran2006]

And the one other thing.

Not fair to judge Youboty or McCargo yet either.. They need to play this year.

But I will be judging them like a mofo.. THey better be good- it would be pretty embarassing to have a 2006 draft class where the day two picks are better than day one.

[justasportsfan]

fair enough. Not even Youboty get's a pass.

[Statman]

You're preaching to the choir.

A team doesnt miss the playoffs SEVEN straight seasons unless it is bad starting at the very top. This team obviously has been.

And I'm also not one of those "In Marv we trust" guys either. I've hated some of his moves already, particularly in last year's joke of a FA class.

Donahoe deserves most of the blame for this team, but Levy's fingerprints are starting to smother it as well.

* Every person on our DL other than Schobel is someone Levy has either drafted, signed or resigned himself.

* I cant even get into LB's because besides Crowell (TD guy) and Ellison (Marv) we dont have any.

* Our secondary other than McGee has Levy's fingerprints all over it.

* Levy passed on Cutler and Leinart and kept Losman.. If JP suceeds, props to Marv. But one way or the other, Levy's fingerprints are on JP now.

* Other than Evans (TD guy), our entire WR corp was brought in by Marv, as well at TE (Royal).. So Marv's fingerprints are all over it too. Even by resigning A-Train, our backfield is all on Marv too now.

Basically, this is Marv's team and he's not "cleaning up TD's mess anymore." His stamp is now all over this team. He resigned Kelsay when he was a FA. That makes him a Marv guy now, not a TD guy.

For the record, as bad overall at TD was, you take a look at the stars of this team that remain and they're all leftover from the TD era (Peters, Losman, EVans, Schobel, Crowell)..

HOwever-- In fairness to Marv, 1.25 offseasons isnt enough to judge him yet--he hasnt even had his second draft. But from this point (2007) on, if this team is good or sucks, that's on the current staff's head, not the past.

.
Yeah, I know I'm preaching to the choir.

As to Levy, in my book he has this season. He told us in bold faced fashion that we were not rebuilding when he got here. If he wants to come clean and say he misspoke, then fine, but then he needs to get it out. Otherwise three seasons from where this team was with at least some promising players, is too long to not at least produce a winning season even if only 9-7.

He has this season to produce a winning season. After that, I do believe that the reality of a formerly and continued failed head coach and a GM minus any experience at all will have just about run its course. Any more of this and we're gonna watch the team make tracks for another city while we continue to cut the "OJT" and loser candidates more benefits of the doubt.

IMO they desperately need to improve on last seaon's 7-9 mark meaning at least 8-8. I don't know how they're gonna do it with a near last ranked D now having lost two of its three most key players and the glue behind it all.

As good as any of us think that Crowell may be, he has never played MLB. He's also a free agent after next season. I'd like to see us draft Willis if he's available although I wouldn't trade up to do it.

Either way, my primary point is that Levy didn't change anything about the Bills' player acquisition organization within the organization. A GM doesn't make all the decisions all by himself and Levy even less so. I'm not even sure he does much of anything other than rubberstamp the decisions of the others.

[Statman]

And the one other thing.

Not fair to judge Youboty or McCargo yet either.. They need to play this year.

But I will be judging them like a mofo.. THey better be good- it would be pretty embarassing to have a 2006 draft class where the day two picks are better than day one.
Well, I disagree. McCargo's had the same exact injury three times now on the same foot. Obviously you've never had orthopaedic issues or you'd realize that "stress fracture" type of injuries are recurrent. It's a structural issue with his foot, not something related to another player stepping on it or anything like that. There's no reason at all to suspect that it will not happen again and every reason to suspect it will. In fact, friendly wager, I say it does again this season.

As to Youboty, for day one draft picks, and I don't care how much of camp he missed, they need to be able to step onto the field and show at least something. He logged time but didn't show a single thing even in limited playing time. On a team desperate to highlight even the most minute hints of progress, if he'd have been a fraction of what they thought he was when the drafted him then we'd have heard all about it. We heard nothing, absolutely nothing.

Forget what the team says. Their words carry no weight anymore.

Either way, the clearly need to show something this season if they want to avoid the first rumblings of "bust" status. If McCargo reinjures the same foot again, his pro career is over the second he "heals." The Bills will cut him following the season. Youboty must regain the starting CB spot before the season starts or it'll be safe to say that he's likely not headed anywhere but as a backup. We drafted him in the early 3rd, but everyone said he could have been a 2nd rounder and perhaps even a late 1st. As such, and given our drafting him on day one, he needs to fulfill at least a large chunk of those reviews.

[Statman]

Okay Johnsonite. :D
Whatever you say Flut..., I mean shorty!

:D