Time to scare the **** out of you!!!

[HHURRICANE]

LINEBACKERS PER DEPTH CHART AT BILLS SITE:

Crowell. Ellison and than....

Wire, Manning, Harrison, DiGiorgio, Haggan and Stamer. :puke:

We need to use our first 4 draft picks on LBs!!!

[ublinkwescore]

I strongly disagree.

[Philagape]

Obviously, we need an immediate starter

[ShadowHawk7]

Indeed. Or two. We need to ensure that Ellison will be more than a marginal starter in 07.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Don't be a Douche HH. We need to draft a good one in round 1 or 2 and pickup up a decent backup(one that could step in and play if need be) in free agency.

[Jan Reimers]

I see LB and RB with our first 2 picks, and then either CB, WR, or another LB with our 2 third round picks.

[TigerJ]

I think two linebackers in the draft is reasonable; one guy who should be able to start right away and then a guy with physical ability who may not be ready to start right away. I think DiGiorgio and Wire can step in and start for a game here and there, though if both had to play at the same time for any length of time, the defense would suffer. I think Stamer could play a little at strong side linebacker. Manning has played some. I know nothing at all about Harrison, and Haggan is a special teamer only. He doesn't have enough speed to be at all effective in the Bills' defensive scheme.

[HHURRICANE]

Don't be a Douche HH. We need to draft a good one in round 1 or 2 and pickup up a decent backup(one that could step in and play if need be) in free agency.

Tell me who we are picking up in FA genius.

[BILLSROCK1212]

Tell me who we are picking up in FA genius.Boss Bailey?

[OpIv37]

LINEBACKERS PER DEPTH CHART AT BILLS SITE:

Crowell. Ellison and than....

Wire, Manning, Harrison, DiGiorgio, Haggan and Stamer. :puke:

We need to use our first 4 draft picks on LBs!!!


This is why I didn't want to trade Spikes, but what's done is done. We are now dependent on finding a starting caliber linebacker in the draft. If any of those scrubs see significant playing time, we're in for a LOOOONNGG season.

[venis2k1]

whats Brandon Spoon up to these days?

[mikemac2001]

whats Brandon Spoon up to these days?


"Brandon Spoon is the future along with jonathen linton" My brother

[jamesiscool]

This is why I didn't want to trade Spikes, but what's done is done. We are now dependent on finding a starting caliber linebacker in the draft. If any of those scrubs see significant playing time, we're in for a LOOOONNGG season.

spikes wanted out. thats it. and over the course of the saeson ellison stepped in quite nicely and did his job quite well.

IMO spikes will bever be the dominant force he was when he came here. he;s starting to be in the twilight of his career and is coming off of a major injury.

LB who is known for his speed + bad wheel = get off my roster

THE END.

[THATHURMANATOR]

spikes wanted out. thats it. and over the course of the saeson ellison stepped in quite nicely and did his job quite well.

IMO spikes will bever be the dominant force he was when he came here. he;s starting to be in the twilight of his career and is coming off of a major injury.

LB who is known for his speed + bad wheel = get off my roster

THE END.
Stop arguing man. They still think it is 2003.

[jamesiscool]

Stop arguing man. They still think it is 2003.

yur right thurm. ive said it too much.

[Night Train]

I actually like Haggan. He can run and hit. Good tackler.

We'll draft a LB on Day 1 and another on Day 2, I'm betting. Not worried about it.

[Saratoga Slim]

I actually like Haggan. He can run and hit. Good tackler.

We'll draft a LB on Day 1 and another on Day 2, I'm betting. Not worried about it.

Haggan's a decent backup.

But I agree that we pretty much have to find a starting caliber LB on day one, and another for depth on day 2 wouldn't be a bad idea

[OpIv37]

spikes wanted out. thats it. and over the course of the saeson ellison stepped in quite nicely and did his job quite well.

IMO spikes will bever be the dominant force he was when he came here. he;s starting to be in the twilight of his career and is coming off of a major injury.

LB who is known for his speed + bad wheel = get off my roster

THE END.

If Ellison steps in for Spikes, who steps in for Fletch? Wire? Haggan? Please.

He doesn't have to be dominant to be worth keeping- just better than what we have.

[HHURRICANE]

Crowell. Ellison and than....

Wire, Manning, Harrison, DiGiorgio, Haggan and Stamer. :puke:


I guess nobody can read. Didn't say Ellison wasn't capable. But this douche bag noticed that if Crowell, who did get hurt last year, gets hurt than we are screwed. Even if we get Willis we would have to pray that he not only plays well but doesn't get hurt.

I'm not *****ing that we unloaded Spikes as much as we had better be drafting 4 LBs because the 6 below Crowell and Ellison major league suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[justasportsfan]

It looks bad on paper but so was seeing Simpson and Whitner as our starting safeties.

At this point, I trust our coaches to know what they're doing until they prove me wrong.

I still want Willis though.

[THATHURMANATOR]

If Ellison steps in for Spikes, who steps in for Fletch? Wire? Haggan? Please.

He doesn't have to be dominant to be worth keeping- just better than what we have.
Op why do you keep making this point? We are OBVIOUSLY going to be drafting a replacement in one of the first couple rounds. Not sure of Free agents still out there but it is possible the replacement could be signed as well.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Plus Crowell would be Fletch's replacement and we will need a replacement for Crowell. I think it is that simple. Why are we making this complicated?

[justasportsfan]

Op why do you keep making this point? We are OBVIOUSLY going to be drafting a replacement in one of the first couple rounds. Not sure of Free agents still out there but it is possible the replacement could be signed as well.
First the OL , then the Dl, now the lb. There's always something to cry about. Once that's addressed, the cb. :whistling

[OpIv37]

Op why do you keep making this point? We are OBVIOUSLY going to be drafting a replacement in one of the first couple rounds. Not sure of Free agents still out there but it is possible the replacement could be signed as well.

Because it's a ridiculous risk. We don't know if the better LB's will still be on the board when we pick and even if we get them, there is always risk in drafting- no one is guaranteed to NOT be a bust. And even if who we get turns out to be a good player, chances are they're not going to be a good player on Week 1 of 2007 because for most players, it takes time to adjust to the speed of the NFL.

Also, when your draft pick is that obvious, other teams that want your guy know they need to trade up to get ahead of you, or teams that pick before us could hold him hostage. ie, SF picks Willis at 10 then calls up Marv and says "Well, you can have him but it'll cost you the 12 and a third rounder".

I just can't get over the fact that we traded a starter so late into the FA period and basically left ourselves with the draft as the ONLY option for filling that hole. There are too many risks involved in drafting.

[OpIv37]

First the OL , then the Dl, now the lb. There's always something to cry about. Once that's addressed, the cb. :whistling

see my previous post. And we've improved the DL somewhat but I still wouldn't say it's fixed. We have no run-stuffers.

[OpIv37]

Plus Crowell would be Fletch's replacement and we will need a replacement for Crowell. I think it is that simple. Why are we making this complicated?

does it matter if we're replacing Spikes, Crowell or Fletcher? The point is that we need 3 starting LB's and at the moment we only have 2. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

[justasportsfan]

see my previous post. And we've improved the DL somewhat but I still wouldn't say it's fixed. We have no run-stuffers.
like I said, there's always something.

Your transformation to the redskins is almost complete, jedi.

[OpIv37]

like I said, there's always something.

Your transformation to the redskins is almost complete, jedi.

So, are you telling me that you're comfortable with our LB, RB, DL, CB, FB, TE and WR situations? If there are no positions needing upgrades, why were we only 7-9 last year?

[justasportsfan]

So, are you telling me that you're comfortable with our LB, RB, DL, CB, FB, TE and WR situations? If there are no positions needing upgrades, why were we only 7-9 last year?


I know that Marv will address the situation. For now I am comfortable that we will be competitive as is. I've never disagreed that it's a 2-3 year rebuild. I don't constantly cry however and want instant gratification like you.

[OpIv37]

I know that Marv will address the situation. For now I am comfortable that we will be competitive as is. I've never disagreed that it's a 2-3 year rebuild. I don't constantly cry however and want instant gratification like you.

I don't understand how you think we can be competitive with the D getting so much worse and the offense only marginally improved.

[justasportsfan]

I don't understand how you think we can be competitive with the D getting so much worse and the offense only marginally improved.That's your opinion.

I said they would be competitive last year and they were. They are now in their second year in the same system.

[HAMMER]

What part of "rebuilding" has not hit you over the head yet OP. Is it not blatantly obvious?

[OpIv37]

That's your opinion.

I said they would be competitive last year and they were. They are now in their second year in the same system.

Right, but we're down a CB and an LB and our DL is only marginally better. That's not my opinion- that's fact. If the season started today, the D would clearly be worse. And we're counting on the draft and Youboty not sucking just to get back to where we were last year (which wasn't very good).

These are FOOTBALL players- they've been playing the game their entire lives. How much difference could one year possibly make?

[OpIv37]

What part of "rebuilding" has not hit you over the head yet OP. Is it not blatantly obvious?

I started a thread that said the exact same thing a few days ago.

But I didn't realize "rebuilding" meant "creating two new holes for every one hole that's filled".

[THATHURMANATOR]

Because it's a ridiculous risk. We don't know if the better LB's will still be on the board when we pick and even if we get them, there is always risk in drafting- no one is guaranteed to NOT be a bust. And even if who we get turns out to be a good player, chances are they're not going to be a good player on Week 1 of 2007 because for most players, it takes time to adjust to the speed of the NFL.

Also, when your draft pick is that obvious, other teams that want your guy know they need to trade up to get ahead of you, or teams that pick before us could hold him hostage. ie, SF picks Willis at 10 then calls up Marv and says "Well, you can have him but it'll cost you the 12 and a third rounder".

I just can't get over the fact that we traded a starter so late into the FA period and basically left ourselves with the draft as the ONLY option for filling that hole. There are too many risks involved in drafting.

Wouldn't it be a ridiculous risk to pay an aging lb 5million when he proved last year that he was no where near previous form?

[Earthquake Enyart]

Right, but we're down a CB and an LB and our DL is only marginally better. That's not my opinion- that's fact. If the season started today, the D would clearly be worse. And we're counting on the draft and Youboty not sucking just to get back to where we were last year (which wasn't very good).

These are FOOTBALL players- they've been playing the game their entire lives. How much difference could one year possibly make?
Both lines are more than marginally better.

But you're right, in filling those holes we have new holes at LB and CB.

[OpIv37]

Wouldn't it be a ridiculous risk to pay an aging lb 5million when he proved last year that he was no where near previous form?

Ok, we've been over this. Keep Spikes. Draft an LB. Work the drafted LB in situationally. That way, you're not risking so much on the development of one player or TKO's recovery from injury. As far as the $5 million, who's left to sign with that money? Answer: no one.

At the very least, you'd keep Spikes' energy and experience.

[THATHURMANATOR]

The lines are more important anyways.

[OpIv37]

Both lines are more than marginally better.

But you're right, in filling those holes we have new holes at LB and CB.

how is the DL more than marginally better? We added some pass rush with Walker which will help, but we did nothing to beef up the run D.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Ok, we've been over this. Keep Spikes. Draft an LB. Work the drafted LB in situationally. That way, you're not risking so much on the development of one player or TKO's recovery from injury. As far as the $5 million, who's left to sign with that money? Answer: no one.

At the very least, you'd keep Spikes' energy and experience.
But Spikes was a liability out there last year. Why do you want him around so bad? I don't get it.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Energy and experience mean nothing without ability.

I have Energy and experience.

[justasportsfan]

What part of "rebuilding" has not hit you over the head yet OP. Is it not blatantly obvious?

It's just not that easy to have a great team right away. Guys like Clements take off for more money and they think we can just find a replacement that easy forgetting that we have competition.

I also don't see what the big deal is about letting Spikes leave (who btw wanted to leave as well) who's just as much of a questionmark as Culpepper. He's whining about Spikes just like he whined about Posey.

Find a replacement? Maybe the FO is ...

Instead of waiting for the FO to do their job , they'll whine for several pages on and on only to find out that the FO was working on it like the DL/OL. Can they get everyone they want all at once? NO! What team do they think they're cheering for? The redskins?

[justasportsfan]

Right, but we're down a CB and an LB and our DL is only marginally better. That's not my opinion- that's fact.
that's kinda stupid. The facts are made on the field. That's your opinion.

Op does not know the difference between facts and what's ON PAPER.

[HHURRICANE]

Geez.

Last year I said this team was very thin on depth. We were. PERIOD. The OL was super thin and it showed. Hopefully the OL is fixed.

After Crowell and Ellison, who aren't Pro Bowl caliber players to begin with, you have special teamers and 3rd stringers. Thurm and others you aren't going to fix this in one off-season. PERIOD.

We are going to suck at the LB position. It's very questionable if we aren't going to suck at RB position as well.

People take the rose colored glasses off and admit that we are going to be in trouble at LB.

[Earthquake Enyart]

To me, the mistake was not re-upping Clemens two or 3 years ago.

By the time Marv got here, Clemens already had him over a barrel.

[OpIv37]

But Spikes was a liability out there last year. Why do you want him around so bad? I don't get it.

ok, how hard is this to understand? WE DON'T HAVE ANYONE BETTER. SPIKES WON'T MAKE ROOKIE MISTAKES BUT A ROOKIE WILL.

IF (and it's a big IF) we get one of the better linebackers in the draft, chances are that player will be better than Spikes pretty quickly. However, on opening day of 2007, there will be one LB on the field who is not as good as Spikes. I don't know why you can't comprehend that.

[OpIv37]

that's kinda stupid. The facts are made on the field. That's your opinion.

Op does not know the difference between facts and what's ON PAPER.

the facts are that the guys we have weren't good enough to take the place of the guys who left ON THE FIELD last year. It's more than just paper.

[THATHURMANATOR]

ok, how hard is this to understand? WE DON'T HAVE ANYONE BETTER. SPIKES WON'T MAKE ROOKIE MISTAKES BUT A ROOKIE WILL.

IF (and it's a big IF) we get one of the better linebackers in the draft, chances are that player will be better than Spikes pretty quickly. However, on opening day of 2007, there will be one LB on the field who is not as good as Spikes. I don't know why you can't comprehend that.
It won't be hard to get a replacement for less money that is as good or better than Spikes either in Free agency or the draft. Mark it down and stop worrying.

[HHURRICANE]

Go with the assumption that it is Ellison, Crowell and Willis. Someone, most likely, will get hurt. Who from the scrub list is stepping in. What if we lose Crowell in the first week. I'm sure when we drafted Ellison it was as depth, not as a starter. DiGorgio? Wire? Haggan?

Come one guys. Marv might be pushing the envelope with getting rid of both McGahee and Spikes and not having more veteran talent coming in.

[OpIv37]

It won't be hard to get a replacement for less money that is as good or better than Spikes either in Free agency or the draft. Mark it down and stop worrying.

there are no FA's left who are equal to or better than Spikes, with the possible exception of Cato June but our FO has shown no interest in him and he'd probably be too expensive anyway.

I've already explained the risk in drafting.

At this point, there is absolutely NO guarantee that we can find someone equal to or better than Spikes by opening day 2007.

[justasportsfan]

ok, how hard is this to understand? WE DON'T HAVE ANYONE BETTER. SPIKES WON'T MAKE ROOKIE MISTAKES BUT A ROOKIE WILL.. Opinion not fact. Culpepper was supposedly gonna take the fins to the sb. Turns out his injury was worse than expected. I don't have a problem letting go of Spikes who's just as questionable.





IF (and it's a big IF) we get one of the better linebackers in the draft, chances are that player will be better than Spikes pretty quickly. However, on opening day of 2007, there will be one LB on the field who is not as good as Spikes. I don't know why you can't comprehend that.


you're the one who can't comprehend fact and what's on paper.

Opinions from last year: the bills have rookies starting at safety. Jp is not gonna do anything , blah,blah,blah. They won't be competitive and won't be in a fight for playoffs.

Facts from last year: They were competitive and almost made playoffs.


You think they bills can just easily plug waht we're lost just like the redskins do. HA!

[OpIv37]

Opinion not fact

:rolleyes: rookies make rookie mistakes. It's a fact whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.




you're the one who can't comprehend fact and what's on paper.

Opinions from last year: the bills have rookies starting at safety. Jp is not gonna do anything , blah,blah,blah. They won't be competitive and won't be in a fight for playoffs.

Facts from last year: They were competitive and almost made playoffs.

Fact: the guys who will be on the field this year were NOT good enough to take the positions from the guys who left last year. Do you really think they got that much better by sitting on the bench doing nothing?

Fact: this team has weaknesses at LB and CB where we did not have weaknesses when we struggled last year. I'm no big Clements fan and I think he's overrated, but it's a fact that at this point in their careers, he's better than Youboty or Thomas (that may not be true in the future, but it's true right now). While Spikes and Fletcher have both regressed as they aged, they're still better than Haggan, Digiorgio, Wire, and the other bunch of scrubs we had. If they weren't better, why were Spikes and Fletch playing last year while those other guys sat on the bench? You seem to have so much faith in our coaching staff- tell me why these guys would be on the bench last year if they're equal or better than Spikes or Fletcher.

[justasportsfan]

the facts are that the guys we have weren't good enough to take the place of the guys who left ON THE FIELD last year. It's more than just paper.

In their first year? Haha! Like I said, the redskins didn't do any better than we did doing things the way you want.
That's a FACT

redskins D was ranked 31st with the guy you were whining about not having a replacement for. POSEY! That's a FACT!

For someone who lives in redskins land, you sure have a hard time not seeing their way does not work and yet you want us to do exactly what they do.

Don't you ever wonder why teams weren't willing to give up more than a player like Walker if for Spikes ? Don't you wonder what you're whining about?

It's Posey all over again.

Whtever OP. You whined about the OL and Dl not being addressed. :shakeno:

[justasportsfan]

:rolleyes: rookies make rookie mistakes. It's a fact whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. .I'd rather have a rookie make mistakes on his way to improving towards the future than a player who going dowhill because of injury. If you don't let someone learn that position now, you'll eventually have to in the future and then you'll be whining then.that's Just stupid.


OMG who's gonna replace MIlloy?Waaah! A rookie is gonna make rookie mistakes. Waaah! :coocoo:


Nice Logic!

Here' another one :who's gonna replace Drew? Jp is gonna make rookie mistakes WaaaaH!

that's your logic.



:

Fact: the guys who will be on the field this year were NOT good enough to take the positions from the guys who left last year. Do you really think they got that much better by sitting on the bench doing nothing?

Fact: this team has weaknesses at LB and CB where we did not have weaknesses when we struggled last year. I'm no big Clements fan and I think he's overrated, but it's a fact that at this point in their careers, he's better than Youboty or Thomas (that may not be true in the future, but it's true right now). While Spikes and Fletcher have both regressed as they aged, they're still better than Haggan, Digiorgio, Wire, and the other bunch of scrubs we had. If they weren't better, why were Spikes and Fletch playing last year while those other guys sat on the bench? You seem to have so much faith in our coaching staff- tell me why these guys would be on the bench last year if they're equal or better than Spikes or Fletcher.
The D went from 28 to 18 in 1 year and in their first year under the new scheme. That's a FACT.

You can nit pick every position all you want but the entire D got better. That's a fact!

[Mr. Pink]

Personally I'm not worried about our LBers.

We could have 3 all-pro's in there and it wouldn't matter.

Pass rush wise, Schoebel shows up big some games, disappears others. Kelsay/Denney don't scare anyone. But I do like the addition of Darwin Walker, maybe, just maybe he'll help us in pass rush situations. Without a successful pass rush even Brian Urlacher and his ability to cover area wouldn't matter.

Against the run, we have a front four that gets pushed around. It did last year and it certainly will again next year. If you have a guard who go get his hands on the MLB it wouldn't matter if you have Ray Lewis patrolling the middle.

Everyone says LB is such a big hole, and yadda yadda yadda. It is a hole yes, but not a huge hole, especially when as I illustrated with how pathetic our front 4 is verse the run it doesn't matter who the LBers are. Against the pass they are marginally better because it's not consistent...it does show up though on occasion.

[OpIv37]

In their first year? Haha! Like I said, the redskins didn't do any better than we did doing things the way you want.
That's a FACT

redskins D was ranked 31st with the guy you were whining about not having a replacement for. POSEY! That's a FACT!

For someone who lives in redskins land, you sure have a hard time not seeing their way does not work and yet you want us to do exactly what they do.

Don't you ever wonder why teams weren't willing to give up more than a player like Walker if for Spikes ? Don't you wonder what you're whining about?

It's Posey all over again.

Whtever OP. You whined about the OL and Dl not being addressed. :shakeno:

And our run D was ranked 27th. Would Posey have helped? Probably not. Would a replacement have helped? Probably. At least when Posey left we had 3 starting LB's if you counted Spikes as healthy. We don't even have that anymore.

And the DL still hasn't been addressed when it comes to the run. You dissed Walker ("that's ALL they would give up for Spikes") then claim that our DL has been addressed :rolleyes:. In fact, last year we brought in an FA and two draft picks for the DL and it STILL sucked.

If you read my posts, you'd know that I didn't expect to get much for Spikes. I said that because of his injury, his value was low and he was more valuble to us than he was to other teams because we have no LB's.

When the off-season started, this is where we stood:
OL, DL in definite need of upgrade.
WR, TE, FB, RB could use attention.

Now,
OL has been upgraded, DL has been mildly improved.
RB, CB, LB in definite need of upgrade.
WR, TE, FB could use attention.

FA is over and we have MORE holes than we did when it started, yet you continue to defend the FO. I don't get it.

[Night Train]

PERIOD.
PERIOD.
We are going to suck at the LB position.

The nature of a fan board is to see improvement once camp starts and the draft picks are on board.

You've made up your mind on March 29th that we will suck without question at LB, RB and probably as a team in 2007. No upside.

So it's not about discussion or to express concern, which is fine. It's just a thread to ***** in and blast anyone who says otherwise. Typing PERIOD reminds me of that ignorant moron, ICE. :down:

Welcome to the Ignore feature.

[OpIv37]

The nature of a fan board is to see improvement once camp starts and the draft picks are on board.

You've made up your mind on March 29th that we will suck without question at LB, RB and probably as a team in 2007. No upside.

So it's not about discussion or to express concern, which is fine. It's just a thread to ***** in and blast anyone who says otherwise. Typing PERIOD reminds me of that ignorant moron, ICE. :down:

Welcome to the Ignore feature.

RB can either skate by with A train or get help in the draft because RB is a position where players can generally step in and be productive from Day 1.

LB is different. First, this draft isn't as deep at LB. Second, it's harder for LB's to adjust to the NFL level (AJ Hawk, anyone). Third, there is no guarantee that we'll get a shot to draft any of the top LB's in this draft.

When it comes to the guys we have- as limited as Spikes and Fletcher were last year, Digiorgio, Haggan, Wire and the rest of the scrubs still weren't good enough to take their place. So unless you really think they got that much better by sitting on the bench, we're in trouble.

Yeah, it's only March 29, but I really want to know when Marv's making his trip to the Magic Linebacker Tree to fix the position.

[THATHURMANATOR]

there are no FA's left who are equal to or better than Spikes, with the possible exception of Cato June but our FO has shown no interest in him and he'd probably be too expensive anyway.

I've already explained the risk in drafting.

At this point, there is absolutely NO guarantee that we can find someone equal to or better than Spikes by opening day 2007.
Didn't June sign with the Bucs last week?

Ok the draft then. No Problem.

[Philagape]

What the Redskins or any other team does is irrelevant. Their failure just means they picked the wrong players and/or handled them poorly. That's on the front office and coaching, not the policy.

[OpIv37]

Didn't June sign with the Bucs last week?

Ok the draft then. No Problem.

It is a problem. Drafting is always risky because a) you don't know if you'll get a shot at your guy, b) you don't know if a draft pick will be a bust and c) even if the draft pick is good, he may take time to develop. So it's incredibly irresponsible to count on the draft for a starter for the upcoming season.

as far as June I don't know if he signed or not but it's irrelevant cuz our FO clearly wasn't interested anyway.

[justasportsfan]

And our run D was ranked 27th. Would Posey have helped? Probably not. Would a replacement have helped? Probably. At least when Posey left we had 3 starting LB's if you counted Spikes as healthy. We don't even have that anymore.

And the DL still hasn't been addressed when it comes to the run. You dissed Walker ("that's ALL they would give up for Spikes") then claim that our DL has been addressed :rolleyes:. In fact, last year we brought in an FA and two draft picks for the DL and it STILL sucked.

If you read my posts, you'd know that I didn't expect to get much for Spikes. I said that because of his injury, his value was low and he was more valuble to us than he was to other teams because we have no LB's.

When the off-season started, this is where we stood:
OL, DL in definite need of upgrade.
WR, TE, FB, RB could use attention.

Now,
OL has been upgraded, DL has been mildly improved.
RB, CB, LB in definite need of upgrade.
WR, TE, FB could use attention.

FA is over and we have MORE holes than we did when it started, yet you continue to defend the FO. I don't get it.


why did you leave out the rookie part about Whitner? because it proves that replacing vets with rookies isn't always bad thing.

whatever it is you think about the Dl, they are your opinion . NOT fact.

Posey sucked. get over it.

You can whine about the unkown all you want. Even though our run D ranked 27 it was still better than the year before considering it was their first year in a NEW schemes with NEW players and ROOKIES starting at safety.. DUh!

Imagine that, the D improves in their first year of rebuild and you're still :wail:

:coocoo:

[OpIv37]

why did you leave out the rookie part about Whitner? because it proves that replacing vets with rookies isn't always bad thing.

whatever it is you think about the Dl, they are your opinion . NOT fact.

Posey sucked. get over it.

You can whine about the unkown all you want. Even though our run D ranked 27 it was still better than the year before considering it was their first year in a NEW schemes with NEW players and ROOKIES starting at safety.. DUh!

Imagine that, the D improves in their first year of rebuild and you're still :wail:

:coocoo:

if all the improvement gets us is 7-9, we need a hell of a lot more improvement. Instead, we went the opposite route.

And who cares about Posey? Our D wasn't good enough with him and it wasn't good enough without him. It's yet another example of the Bills losing a starter and doing nothing about it. If a guy's not good enough, the solution is to upgrade- not just replacing mediocrity with more mediocrity.

[OpIv37]

why did you leave out the rookie part about Whitner? because it proves that replacing vets with rookies isn't always bad thing.



one thing you're forgetting: Vincent was still on the roster. The FO didn't cut him until they saw Whitner and Simpson in action and decided that the drop in play between them and Vincent was not significant enough to warrant keeping Vincent. In the Spikes place, we don't even HAVE the replacement yet, let alone testing the replacement on the field before letting Spikes go. So it's not being handled the same and it's a poor example.

[justasportsfan]

if all the improvement gets us is 7-9, we need a hell of a lot more improvement. Instead, we went the opposite route.

And who cares about Posey? Our D wasn't good enough with him and it wasn't good enough without him. It's yet another example of the Bills losing a starter and doing nothing about it. If a guy's not good enough, the solution is to upgrade- not just replacing mediocrity with more mediocrity.
again, refuse to address the whitner situation. I don't blame you, it makes you like like you'r whining for nothing.

Who cares about Posey? you did. Ranting on and on about it , just like your whining about Spikes again. I guess this argument is done.

[OpIv37]

again, refuse to address the whitner situation. I don't blame you, it makes you like like you'r whining for nothing.

Who cares about Posey? you did. Ranting on and on about it , just like your whining about Spikes again. I guess this argument is done.

you're the one who keeps bringing Posey up 8 months later. Not me. And as fans, we have every reason to whine until a replacement or an upgrade is found.

[justasportsfan]

you're the one who keeps bringing Posey up 8 months later. Not me. And as fans, we have every reason to whine until a replacement or an upgrade is found.
because it's the same situation now than with Posey. You're whining about finding a replacement for a questionmark.

What are gonna do about Holcomb? We don't have a erplacement? How bout' you whine about that.

[OpIv37]

because it's the same situation now than with Posey. You're whining about finding a replacement for a questionmark.

What are gonna do about Holcomb? We don't have a erplacement? How bout' you whine about that.

if losman goes down, we're ****ed no matter what happens so back up qb isn't worth worrying about. You're comparing a starting position that's on the field for the majority of defensive downs to a position that shouldn't see the field at all.

If a position is a question mark, it needs to be answered. Getting rid of a guy and bringing in no one leaves a question mark as.... a question mark. We need ANSWERS, not lateral moves toward more mediocrity.

[HAMMER]

I started a thread that said the exact same thing a few days ago.

But I didn't realize "rebuilding" meant "creating two new holes for every one hole that's filled".

If you wait until we draft you might have your answers.

[OpIv37]

If you wait until we draft you might have your answers.
even if we had the perfect draft, we have too many holes to fill them in one draft. Plus, we played a lot of draft picks last year and it got us 7-9.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Good Draft 9-7
Mark it down and stop being so pessimistic Op. NOW

[HAMMER]

Good Draft 9-7
Mark it down and stop being so pessimistic Op. NOW

You would think w/ the first two letters of his name he would be more OPtimistic. You are never going to get him to stop complaining about the Bills until they win a SB, and even then......

[HHURRICANE]

The nature of a fan board is to see improvement once camp starts and the draft picks are on board.

You've made up your mind on March 29th that we will suck without question at LB, RB and probably as a team in 2007. No upside.

So it's not about discussion or to express concern, which is fine. It's just a thread to ***** in and blast anyone who says otherwise. Typing PERIOD reminds me of that ignorant moron, ICE. :down:

Welcome to the Ignore feature.

Whatever. Pull your chicken feathers out and give me a legit reason why we aren't weak at the LB position even if we get Willis. The point is that nobody on the board can. PERIOD.

[HHURRICANE]

Good Draft 9-7
Mark it down and stop being so pessimistic Op. NOW

Last I looked 9-7 rarely gets you into the playoffs so why is OP supposed to be so optimistic?

My thread is spot on. Not one of you can legitimize our weakness at LB. Draft Willis and we are still going to have no depth at the position.

[justasportsfan]

one thing you're forgetting: Vincent was still on the roster. The FO didn't cut him until they saw Whitner and Simpson in action and decided that the drop in play between them and Vincent was not significant enough to warrant keeping Vincent. .Haha! Sure. Did Dick tell you that himself or are you making assumptions.

Are you telling me that the caoches haven't see Digorgio , Ellison and even Wire in action? Nice try.

I'm not saying either of those guys are the replacements because I am not gonna make assumptions about what the coaches are thinking unlike you.

[OpIv37]

Good Draft 9-7
Mark it down and stop being so pessimistic Op. NOW

first, it's called realism, not pessimism. Our starter at CB is completely unproven and our starter at LB is either TBD or one of the scrubs we have on the roster.

Second, at this point all a good draft does is get us right back to where we were last year.

And finally, like HH pointed out, 9-7 isn't playoffs.

[OpIv37]

Haha! Sure. Did Dick tell you that himself or are you making assumptions.

Are you telling me that the caoches haven't see Digorgio , Ellison and even Wire in action? Nice try.

I'm not saying either of those guys are the replacements because I am not gonna make assumptions about what the coaches are thinking unlike you.

I'm not assuming anything. If Dick thought Digiorgio, Ellison and Wire were as good or better than Spikes and Fletcher, why were they on the bench last year? It's not an assumption to say the coach thought the guys who were playing are better than the guys who weren't playing.

And you're the one who always makes the faulty assumption that what the coaches are thinking is RIGHT. They've been wrong plenty of times in the past.

[Michael82]

One thing you guys keep missing on this is that....

TAKEO SPIKES DID NOT WANT TO BE HERE ANYMORE! Anyone really think he would have played his best if his heart wasn't here anymore?

[THATHURMANATOR]

first, it's called realism, not pessimism. Our starter at CB is completely unproven and our starter at LB is either TBD or one of the scrubs we have on the roster.

Second, at this point all a good draft does is get us right back to where we were last year.

And finally, like HH pointed out, 9-7 isn't playoffs.
Lets not get into this Realism horse **** again.

[justasportsfan]

I'm not assuming anything. If Dick thought Digiorgio, Ellison and Wire were as good or better than Spikes and Fletcher, why were they on the bench last year? It's not an assumption to say the coach thought the guys who were playing are better than the guys who weren't playing.

And you're the one who always makes the faulty assumption that what the coaches are thinking is RIGHT. They've been wrong plenty of times in the past.
Haha! You said that it would be better to keep Spikes and let a rookie come in slowly. Isn't that what happened last year? Helloo! Make up your mind.


YES you are making assumptions. While you are assuming they were benched last year because they were not Spikes' replacement, I can also assume it's because Spikes was a penciled starter and they wanted to see where he was at with his injury and based on what we've seen (FACT) he wasn't the Spikes we knew. You're not the only one who can make assumptions.

Where did I say the coaches are always thinking right? :coocoo:
THey must be doing something right when you wouldn't even give them a chance to at least compete to make playoffs. Helloo!!

Where did I say that they haven't been wrong? I would rather wait and see what their next move is instead of assuming that they aren't doing anything about it like you always do which is why you always get caught whining about something that was being done.

You talk like these guys are intentionally trying to ruin this team by not thinking about the possibilities of Spikes' departure. Just because they don't do it WHEN YOU WANT AND HOW YOU WANT IT DONE doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing.


They proved almost everyone wrong last year ESPECIALLY YOU by almost making playoffs. Again I will give them the benefit of the doubt since they've done a decent job in the first year of REBUILD. (I know you don't know what that word means)


Keep trying to dig yourself out of that hole you dug up for yourself with your whines. You can't even agree with yourself anymore. I'm done with this POSEY thread. Cry all you want.

[HHURRICANE]

One thing you guys keep missing on this is that....

TAKEO SPIKES DID NOT WANT TO BE HERE ANYMORE! Anyone really think he would have played his best if his heart wasn't here anymore?

Hey, I just pointed out the obvious. I'm not saying that we should have kept Spikes as much as I am saying that we really are in trouble at the LB position.

Anybody that thinks Wire, Haggan, Manning, DiGorgio, etc. are competant second stringers need to have their head examined. Ellison would have a hard time cracking the starting line up on half the teams in this league.

People need to stop being homers and realize this is a legit concern even after the draft unless of course we are drafting 2 in the first round.

[justasportsfan]

Anybody that thinks Wire, Haggan, Manning, DiGorgio, etc. are competant second stringers need to have their head examined. Ellison would have a hard time cracking the starting line up on half the teams in this league.

.Opinion, NOT FACT!
Anyone who said the bills would compete last year would've been considered being on crack.

Anone who said that 2 starting rookie safeties last year would be fine would be on crack.

Well, how did that go?

In other words, I'll leave it up to the coaches to make the decisions. Although they are fallible, they know their players and the situation better than you do.

[OpIv37]

Haha! You said that it would be better to keep Spikes and let a rookie come in slowly. Isn't that what happened last year? Helloo! Make up your mind.


YES you are making assumptions. While you are assuming they were benched last year because they were not Spikes' replacement, I can also assume it's because Spikes was a penciled starter and they wanted to see where he was at with his injury and based on what we've seen (FACT) he wasn't the Spikes we knew. You're not the only one who can make assumptions.

Where did I say the coaches are always thinking right? :coocoo:
THey must be doing something right when you wouldn't even give them a chance to at least compete to make playoffs. Helloo!!

Where did I say that they haven't been wrong? I would rather wait and see what their next move is instead of assuming that they aren't doing anything about it like you always do which is why you always get caught whining about something that was being done.

You talk like these guys are intentionally trying to ruin this team by not thinking about the possibilities of Spikes' departure. Just because they don't do it WHEN YOU WANT AND HOW YOU WANT IT DONE doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing.


They proved almost everyone wrong last year ESPECIALLY YOU by almost making playoffs. Again I will give them the benefit of the doubt since they've done a decent job in the first year of REBUILD. (I know you don't know what that word means)


Keep trying to dig yourself out of that hole you dug up for yourself with your whines. You can't even agree with yourself anymore. I'm done with this POSEY thread. Cry all you want.

Yeah keep talking **** about me being wrong. I said the run D would struggle- it did. I said we'd be 6-10, I was one game off- we were 7-9. I said Jauron was questionable as a coach- he proved why at several times throughout the season. I said Losman would struggle early- he did. I said the OL was weak- it was. So I wasn't as "wrong" as you're trying to make it sound.

And this isn't about what I want. It's about having enough bonafide NFL starters instead of trying to get by with scrubs and back-ups as starters. Remember Ron Edwards, Tim Anderson, Bennie Anderson, Tutan Reyes, etc.

[OpIv37]

Opinion, NOT FACT!
Anyone who said the bills would compete last year would've been considered being on crack.

Anone who said that 2 starting rookie safeties last year would be fine would be on crack.

Well, how did that go?

In other words, I'll leave it up to the coaches to make the decisions. Although they are fallible, they know their players and the situation better than you do.

you keep talking like us starting so many rookies on D worked out so well. It got us 7-9 and 27th against the run. Yeah, it could have been worse, but that's not exactly stellar.

[HHURRICANE]

Opinion, NOT FACT!
Anyone who said the bills would compete last year would've been considered being on crack.

Anone who said that 2 starting rookie safeties last year would be fine would be on crack.

Well, how did that go?

In other words, I'll leave it up to the coaches to make the decisions. Although they are fallible, they know their players and the situation better than you do.

1) I said the Bills would be 7-9. Fact. Review my pre-season '06 posts.

2) Whitner was drafted to start and Simpson replacing Vincent isn't a big stretch. Next.

3) I said last year that we had no depth on the OL. We didn't and we paid the price.

4) The fact that the scrubs listed previously, especially Wire, have had their opportunities to impress and haven't. My facts are based on what these players haven't accomplished.

[justasportsfan]

Yeah keep talking **** about me being wrong. I said the run D would struggle- it did. I said we'd be 6-10, I was one game off- we were 7-9. I said Jauron was questionable as a coach- he proved why at several times throughout the season. I said Losman would struggle early- he did. I said the OL was weak- it was. So I wasn't as "wrong" as you're trying to make it sound.

And this isn't about what I want. It's about having enough bonafide NFL starters instead of trying to get by with scrubs and back-ups as starters. Remember Ron Edwards, Tim Anderson, Bennie Anderson, Tutan Reyes, etc.

the run D did struggle. You sure wnet out on a limb on that one with a team that was rebuilding. Did you even state that the entire D would jump from 28 to 18 NO!!!

as for your record big deal, anyone who said that the bills would be fighting for playoff spot would be crazy in your book.
Stop switching subjects. Let's stick to the POsey thread.

[justasportsfan]

1) I said the Bills would be 7-9. Fact. Review my pre-season '06 posts.

2) Whitner was drafted to start and Simpson replacing Vincent isn't a big stretch. Next.

3) I said last year that we had no depth on the OL. We didn't and we paid the price.

4) The fact that the scrubs listed previously, especially Wire, have had their opportunities to impress and haven't. My facts are based on what these players haven't accomplished.


well, you left out the response about the bills fighting for playoffs. How convenient.

Mccargo must be a bust by your logic since like the others, he failed to impress in their FIRST YEAR.
Like I said, I'll leave it to the coaches to decide who's a srub and who isn't. NOt because YOU say so.

You guys a re forgetting one thing, they fixed the JP situation and they will fix everything else IN THEIR OWN TIME AND NOT YOURS OR OP's.

[OpIv37]

the run D did struggle. You sure wnet out on a limb on that one with a team that was rebuilding. Did you even state that the entire D would jump from 28 to 18 NO!!!

as for your record big deal, anyone who said that the bills would be fighting for playoff spot would be crazy in your book.
Stop switching subjects. Let's stick to the POsey thread.

now, you're twisting my words.

I said anyone who thought this team could make the playoffs is crazy. I never said anything about fighting for the playoffs and I was only one game off in my prediction. If you look back at the season, we did not beat a single playoff team and only beat one or two that had winning records. So what I actually said was accurate, despite how you try to spin it.

The fact is we lost four starters (Spikes, Fletcher, Clements, McGahee) and have yet to replace any of them. Ok, I'll even give you that Ellison can replace Spikes or Fletcher (which I'm not sold on, but anyway....). So we lost 3 starters and got 0 replacements.

But you still trust the coaches? These are the kinds of moves that inspire distrust in people who aren't blinded by homerism. With all the proven players gone in FA already, where the hell are we going to find a starting caliber LB, CB and RB before September? If you REALLY think we're going to get three guys who can start from day one without making rookie mistakes in the draft, you're just fooling yourself.

[OpIv37]

well, you left out the response about the bills fighting for playoffs. How convenient.

Mccargo must be a bust by your logic since like the others, he failed to impress in their FIRST YEAR.
Like I said, I'll leave it to the coaches to decide who's a srub and who isn't. NOt because YOU say so.

You guys a re forgetting one thing, they fixed the JP situation and they will fix everything else IN THEIR OWN TIME AND NOT YOURS OR OP's.

and how many more ****ing losses do we have to endure in their own time? Maybe Marv and Dick weren't here for the 7 year playoff drought but we as fans were.

Is McCargo a bust because he didn't do anything in his first year? No. But here's the problem with that: we needed IMMEDIATE help on the DL and he wasn't good enough to provide it IMMEDIATELY, so we struggled last year. We're looking at the same thing at LB, CB and maybe RB (although RB is not as tough to fill) this year. If the guys we draft and Youboty aren't good enough to help IMMEDIATELY (and most players aren't), we are going to struggle again.

[justasportsfan]

now, you're twisting my words.

I said anyone who thought this team could make the playoffs is crazy. I never said anything about fighting for the playoffs and I was only one game off in my prediction. If you look back at the season, we did not beat a single playoff team and only beat one or two that had winning records. So what I actually said was accurate, despite how you try to spin it.

The fact is we lost four starters (Spikes, Fletcher, Clements, McGahee) and have yet to replace any of them. Ok, I'll even give you that Ellison can replace Spikes or Fletcher (which I'm not sold on, but anyway....). So we lost 3 starters and got 0 replacements.

But you still trust the coaches? These are the kinds of moves that inspire distrust in people who aren't blinded by homerism. With all the proven players gone in FA already, where the hell are we going to find a starting caliber LB, CB and RB before September? If you REALLY think we're going to get three guys who can start from day one without making rookie mistakes in the draft, you're just fooling yourself.read my statement , do you see the word WOULD?


It's not that I trust the coaches, it's just that I know rebuilding takes time and they can't fix everything all at the same time and they cna't control who wants to leave or who wants to pay CLEMENTS ( the cb you keep saying is inconsistent anyways) 80 million.

Again it all boils down to your lack of understanding what REBUILDING is all about. You want it done NOW and the way YOU want it.

I think you should be rooting for the redskins!

[OpIv37]

read my statement , do you see the word WOULD?


It's not that I trust the coaches, it's just that I know rebuilding takes time and they can't fix everything all at the same time and they cna't control who wants to leave or who wants to pay CLEMENTS ( the cb you keep saying is inconsistent anyways) 80 million.

Again it all boils down to your lack of understanding what REBUILDING is all about. You want it done NOW and the way YOU want it.

I think you should be rooting for the redskins!

we've been rebuilding for years and it hasn't gotten us anywhere.

and as far as the redskins, once again you fail to acknowledge that there is a happy medium. You talk like there are only two ways to do things- cut every starter over 28 and replace them with no names or draft picks like Marv, or sign every big-name FA to a big contract and trade draft picks for big names like the Skins. And that's simply not the case.

[justasportsfan]

and how many more ****ing losses do we have to endure in their own time? Maybe Marv and Dick weren't here for the 7 year playoff drought but we as fans were.

Is McCargo a bust because he didn't do anything in his first year? No. But here's the problem with that: we needed IMMEDIATE help on the DL and he wasn't good enough to provide it IMMEDIATELY, so we struggled last year. We're looking at the same thing at LB, CB and maybe RB (although RB is not as tough to fill) this year. If the guys we draft and Youboty aren't good enough to help IMMEDIATELY (and most players aren't), we are going to struggle again.


Again lack of understanding of the process of REBUILDING leads to impatience, which leads to WHINING. Don't go blaming MArv for the TD years.

Go cheer for the redskins. They rebuild their team every year ,your way.

[OpIv37]

Again lack of understanding of the process of REBUILDING leads to impatience, which leads to WHINING. Don't go blaming MArv for the TD years.

seven years of losing lead to impatience. As a fan, the coming of Marv doesn't simply erase the TD years.

Oh, and if rebuilding takes so much time, how did the Jets and Saints go from top 5 draft picks to playoffs in one season?

[justasportsfan]

we've been rebuilding for years and it hasn't gotten us anywhere.

and as far as the redskins, once again you fail to acknowledge that there is a happy medium. You talk like there are only two ways to do things- cut every starter over 28 and replace them with no names or draft picks like Marv, or sign every big-name FA to a big contract and trade draft picks for big names like the Skins. And that's simply not the case.


TO blame the rebuilding process on MArv is just stupid. How many times have I told you that rebuilding via the draft is the way to go and not the redskins way.

You can b1tch all you want about wanting to build it their way, I'd rather do it, the pats and Colts way.

If you cheer for the redskins , you wouldn't have to b1tch about Fletcher and Poseys replacements because theya re already there. ;)

[justasportsfan]

seven years of losing lead to impatience. As a fan, the coming of Marv doesn't simply erase the TD years.

Oh, and if rebuilding takes so much time, how did the Jets and Saints go from top 5 draft picks to playoffs in one season?
Like it or not , the PAts and Colts didn't get to the playoffs in their first year.

Don't be stupid, the Saints and Jets had a better QB. Their coaches didn't inherit a bunch of vets that just rebeled against their coach. Apples and oranges.


Say it. GO REDSKINS!!!!!!

[OpIv37]

TO blame the rebuilding process on MArv is just stupid. How many times have I told you that rebuilding via the draft is the way to go and not the redskins way.

You can b1tch all you want about wanting to build it their way, I'd rather do it, the pats and Colts way.

If you cheer for the redskins , you wouldn't have to b1tch about Fletcher and Poseys replacements because theya re already there. ;)

even the Pats brought in FA's to fill holes- Dillon, Colvin, etc. And I don't follow the Pats that closely but I don't remember them ever going into a draft needing 3 starters. And I'm SURE the Colts have never done that- at least not in the last 10 years since they stopped sucking.

[justasportsfan]

even the Pats brought in FA's to fill holes- Dillon, Colvin, etc. And I don't follow the Pats that closely but I don't remember them ever going into a draft needing 3 starters. And I'm SURE the Colts have never done that- at least not in the last 10 years since they stopped sucking.And we're not doing that with Dockery and the others? It's only been a year.

I'm done trying to whipe you tears.

If you can't stand rebuilding... GO REDSKINS. Cmon I know you want to.

[OpIv37]

And we're not doing that with Dockery and the others? It's only been a year.

I'm done trying to whipe you tears.

If you can't stand rebuilding... GO REDSKINS. Cmon I know you want to.

well you're to blind to notice that the Bills AND the Redskins are both doing things differently from the Colts and the Pats. The Pats didn't let Dillon go until after they had Maroney.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Lets not get into this Realism horse **** again.