Jaworski's Thoughts On Offseason

[MVP]

It’s simple. I think the Buffalo Bills are losers in free agency right now. They have lost some impact players. Takeo Spikes, London Fletcher, you can’t lose players like that. Nate Clements, Willis McGahee, you can’t lose players like that. We all know there’s turnover in this league, but then you look to see who they gained, and you don’t see the balance sheet. Clearly to me, the winner thus far is New England. They were awful at wide receiver last year. Bill Belichick, one of my dear friends, got angry at me when I called them the slowest wide receiving corps in the NFL a year ago. However, I was right (laughs).

[feelthepain]

Seems to me it's the overwhelming opinion for the Bills offseason so far, from most of what I've read. A lot of fans here seem to think Marvs plan is to get younger. I think that's a good idea, but you can't get rid of your experience and have only youth to start at 65-70% of the team. I think this is Marv doing the best he can with RW squeezing the life out of the Bills.

[camelcowboy]

I understand all the moves, i just wish they didn't do them all this offseason. They put themselves in a tought spot drafting.

[Elminster]

Impact.....players? Where was this "impact" last year?

[feelthepain]

Impact.....players? Where was this "impact" last year?

The players that signed elsewhere or were traded weren't the only players on your team and you can't act like they are the only reason the Bills weren't successful. Just because they weren't probowlers doesn't mean they didn't help your team or won't be missed. You also can't say their replacements are better. So while you can look at the departure any way you wish, don't act like your team won't feel their void or by leaving somehow your team is better.

[gr8slayer]

Seems to me it's the overwhelming opinion for the Bills offseason so far, from most of what I've read. A lot of fans here seem to think Marvs plan is to get younger. I think that's a good idea, but you can't get rid of your experience and have only youth to start at 65-70% of the team. I think this is Marv doing the best he can with RW squeezing the life out of the Bills.
Ralph spent more than Wayne. Next please...............


0-2

[PromoTheRobot]

Seems to me it's the overwhelming opinion for the Bills offseason so far, from most of what I've read. A lot of fans here seem to think Marvs plan is to get younger. I think that's a good idea, but you can't get rid of your experience and have only youth to start at 65-70% of the team. I think this is Marv doing the best he can with RW squeezing the life out of the Bills.
And don't forget the same pundits said we had the worst draft too. How many starters did we get? Remember these talking asscracks are like parrots, they only repeat what they hear. And they forget how far off base they were last year.

PTR

[jamze132]

The players that signed elsewhere or were traded weren't the only players on your team and you can't act like they are the only reason the Bills weren't successful. Just because they weren't probowlers doesn't mean they didn't help your team or won't be missed. You also can't say their replacements are better. So while you can look at the departure any way you wish, don't act like your team won't feel their void or by leaving somehow your team is better.
You have said nothing that hasn't been said on ESPN. Thanks for the wonderful insight.

[BillsFever21]

The reason why we had so many starters out of our draft is because our roster isn't very good. It's not because them players are just so damn good. If they were as good as some of you make them out to be then we would have been in the playoffs.

You put that draft class in Baltimore or another franchise with steady talent and Whitner probably would've been the only one. Maybe Simpson. It's not like the rookies that did play had a great impact. Whitner was decent but the rest of them didn't have an impact.

Also, the only starters I see from that class beyond more then a few games last season is Whitner and Simpson. Ellison may start this year by defaul and not because he was so great. Pennington was such a great starter last year they replaced him for a 25 million dollar, 11 sack a year player.

[BADTHINGSMAN]

Out of Spikes,Fletcher,McGamee,Clements,Holcomb the only 2 that had any impact were Clements and Fletcher.. I love how the Bills were stupid to let Clements walk, and the Niners were stupid to give him $80million contract, Clements wasnt worth that and no way Buffalo stud a chance at resigning him with a contract like that thrown at him.. Fletcher had a good year, but he didnt want to be here, Spikes did nothing last year, McGamee is just plain pathetic and was gonne leave via free agency when his contract was up.. Holcomb didnt take a snap so why keep him?? Why keep these guys when they want out of Buffalo?? Marv got what he could for these guys that didnt want to be here..

[Night Train]

No use getting upset.

The national media doesn't watch the Bills like us. They post empty thoughts, based on name recognition/perceived status. Impact players ? Outside of maybe Clements, that statement is beyond silly.

We do need to see who can replace the rest but the change was long overdue.

Bring on the Draft and ignore all this off-season filler.

[justasportsfan]

The players that signed elsewhere or were traded weren't the only players on your team and you can't act like they are the only reason the Bills weren't successful. Just because they weren't probowlers doesn't mean they didn't help your team or won't be missed. You also can't say their replacements are better. So while you can look at the departure any way you wish, don't act like your team won't feel their void or by leaving somehow your team is better.
the overwhelming opinion last year was that the fins were gonna win the division , Culpecker was the savior of the franchise and Saban was a god.

[ddaryl]

Seems to me it's the overwhelming opinion for the Bills offseason so far, from most of what I've read. A lot of fans here seem to think Marvs plan is to get younger. I think that's a good idea, but you can't get rid of your experience and have only youth to start at 65-70% of the team. I think this is Marv doing the best he can with RW squeezing the life out of the Bills.


I think you've missed the entire point.

Marv knows players like Fletcher and Spikes will be too old and beat down in the next couple of year. In that time youth will experienced and ready to step up along side the rest of the young core.

Clements was never going to be resigned to a salary cap eating contract, and Willis McGahee is still an addition by subtraction.

We still have money left, a draft day trade possibility, and June cuts to fill in some of those subractions.

To honestly believe its Ralph who is squezzing thelife out of the team is laughable. I find going out and bringing in high price FA's just for the sake of appeasing people like yourself and the so called experts even more laughable.

Will the Bills be a Superbowl team this year... NO, wasn't expecting one even with Takeo, Clements, McGahee and Spikes.

Will the Bills make the playoffs this year. It's possible, but I forsee an 8-8 season and missed playoffs.

Will the Bills have the necessary money to resing JP and Evans next year while adding a FA or 3 that can turn the Bills into a playoof team andpossible superbowl team... a definite possibility, and one that probably would not be possible if we kept Spikes, Fletcher, Clements, and Mcgahee.

I also feel the Bills will have a MUCH better shot at a long run of playoff appearances by cutting bait early in Marv's tenure and fixing the core of the team.

Marv's plan has a future, if we don't make the offseason moves we are makig then I feel the Bills might have had a chance but would have quickly disintegratedsoon after.

[jmb1099]

We did lose a lot of big name players, no question. But Clements was inconsistent at best, Spikes was a shell of his former self, and Fletch was almost as old as Miami's defense. WM? Please. Kelly Holcomb? jmb1099 thinks the Answer is ion crack but that's besides the point.
I don't think anyone here would argue that the pats have had a very productive offseason so it would appear that they are once again the team to beat in the east.
The media types get too sucked in to names and don't spend enough time to go behind the name to find out the real deal.

[don137]

McGahee and his comments proved he was not coming back nor did he prove to be elite talent so he was not worth the price to keep.
Losing Clements is tough however not sure he is worth the money he got. The one thing I wished happened was two years ago when they resigned Schoebel to an extension, TD also should of extended Clements. He could of been signed for a 6 year 40 million dollar contract with no problem.
Fletcher was a great leader. He will be missed but at his age he is not worth the risk as far as signing bonus when the Bills are very money conscious. How many 30+ year olds live to play up to the contract they signed for the life of there contract.
Spikes was a huge question mark that due to injuries did not play and contribute to the level the Bills needed him to be. Being cost conscious I think they made the right decision.
The Bills are not just trying to make it to the playoffs. All in all in my opinion the Bills are taking a step back so they can take 4 steps forward. They are building a very solid nucleus. They will have a great young core. They will have new leaders. JP and Schobel are great character players that it is now there time to step up and be the leaders of this team.

[feelthepain]

And don't forget the same pundits said we had the worst draft too. How many starters did we get? Remember these talking asscracks are like parrots, they only repeat what they hear. And they forget how far off base they were last year.

PTR

Your draft was ok, nothing great. Your rookies started because they had to not because they were great. Your secondary wasn't really tested because everyone ran the ball down the Bills throat. Whitner was still a reach for the Bills last year, your other first round pick that was also a reach didn't even contribute, So lets not go overboard with your opinion of your draft last year.

[feelthepain]

I think you've missed the entire point.

Marv knows players like Fletcher and Spikes will be too old and beat down in the next couple of year. In that time youth will experienced and ready to step up along side the rest of the young core.

Clements was never going to be resigned to a salary cap eating contract, and Willis McGahee is still an addition by subtraction.

We still have money left, a draft day trade possibility, and June cuts to fill in some of those subractions.

To honestly believe its Ralph who is squezzing thelife out of the team is laughable. I find going out and bringing in high price FA's just for the sake of appeasing people like yourself and the so called experts even more laughable.

Will the Bills be a Superbowl team this year... NO, wasn't expecting one even with Takeo, Clements, McGahee and Spikes.

Will the Bills make the playoffs this year. It's possible, but I forsee an 8-8 season and missed playoffs.

Will the Bills have the necessary money to resing JP and Evans next year while adding a FA or 3 that can turn the Bills into a playoof team andpossible superbowl team... a definite possibility, and one that probably would not be possible if we kept Spikes, Fletcher, Clements, and Mcgahee.

I also feel the Bills will have a MUCH better shot at a long run of playoff appearances by cutting bait early in Marv's tenure and fixing the core of the team.

Marv's plan has a future, if we don't make the offseason moves we are makig then I feel the Bills might have had a chance but would have quickly disintegratedsoon after.


As usual those are just excuses. I could understand losing one maybe two starters and replacing one of them. But the Bills lose 4 starters and don't replace any. I think the reason the Bill are getting a bad grade is because no matter how Bill fans want to sugarcoat this offseason, the Bills loses outweight their gaines. That's the bottom line, your draft would have to be outstanding just to recoup what you've lost. That's the point behind what people see. For you to hit on 4 of your 8 DP would be very tough to do and nothing is going to make up for the lost experience.

[madness]

:yawn: One of Belichick's dearest friends is downing the Bills. Go figure.

[Gunzlingr]

As usual those are just excuses. .

You being the biggest dullfag homer ever would know all about excuses.

[TacklingDummy]

:yawn: One of Belichick's dearest friends is downing the Bills. Go figure.

Ahhh yes, but when Jaws praises JP it's a different story.

[OpIv37]

The reason why we had so many starters out of our draft is because our roster isn't very good. It's not because them players are just so damn good. If they were as good as some of you make them out to be then we would have been in the playoffs.


FINALLY someone gets it.

[madness]

Ahhh yes, but when Jaws praises JP it's a different story.

Nice try JP hater. Everybody hates their rivals, not the individual players on that team. Does any player get boo'ed when he joins another team off of a rival team? :no:

[Mr. Miyagi]

Impact.....players? Where was this "impact" last year?
Spikes? No, did nothing.

McGahee? No, any average back could run 990 yards.

Clements? Yeah his impact was gambling and losing games for us.

Fletcher? Well okay he was effective at tackling 7 yards behind LOS.

[madness]

Spikes? No, did nothing.

McGahee? No, any average back could run 990 yards.

Clements? Yeah his impact was gambling and losing games for us.

Fletcher? Well okay he was effective at tackling 7 yards behind LOS.

I give Fletcher way more credit then you do.

... effective @ 5 yards behind LOS. :tongue:

[HHURRICANE]

Seems to me it's the overwhelming opinion for the Bills offseason so far, from most of what I've read. A lot of fans here seem to think Marvs plan is to get younger. I think that's a good idea, but you can't get rid of your experience and have only youth to start at 65-70% of the team. I think this is Marv doing the best he can with RW squeezing the life out of the Bills.

Your post would have been dead on if for not the last sentence.

With that said I actually understand what is happening here and this has alot more to do with fielding a team that is "reliable".

As a fan the only frustration is that instead of 10-6 or 11-5 we are more realistically looking at 9-7.

Losing Nate is not that big. Losing Holcomb is a zero. Spikes played horrible last year so what are we missing? These we won't miss a beat on.

McGahee was a 1000 yard rusher behind a very suspect O-line. Wasn't a smart guy or a team leader but his numbers will be somewhat hard to replace. Ask the Jets what life was like last year with a better O-line than us.

Fletcher was a tackling machine even being late and out of position at times. Can we do better over the long haul with a Rookie? Yes. But he's not going to bring the same impact as a vet.

We'll need some luck to do better than 9-7.

[ublinkwescore]

Your draft was ok, nothing great. Your rookies started because they had to not because they were great. Your secondary wasn't really tested because everyone ran the ball down the Bills throat. Whitner was still a reach for the Bills last year, your other first round pick that was also a reach didn't even contribute, So lets not go overboard with your opinion of your draft last year.

those rookies made your team look pretty silly.

[feelthepain]

those rookies made your team look pretty silly.


Whoopdeedoo, we beat the Pats, Chiefs and Bears. I'd rahter have those wins knowing they're playoff teams then beating a Bills team that was only able to beat one playoff team last year.

[mysticsoto]

the overwhelming opinion last year was that the fins were gonna win the division , Culpecker was the savior of the franchise and Saban was a god.

Some analysts were even calling the Fins to go to the Superbowl!!! :idunno:

[EDS]

I think alot of people are missing the point Jaws was making. Maybe TKO, Fletcher, Nate and Willis weren't true "impact" players in the sense that a Peyton Manning is an impact player, but they were the best the Bills had at those positions.

Accordingly, Jaws is effectively saying that we lost starters and have not yet demonstrated that they have been replaced by anyone better. Now, we can say that Willis sucked last year (he did), but A-Train is still not a better player. So down grade at running back. Same with linebacker - TKO and London may not be worldbeaters but they are better then their replacements (the reality is we do not know if Ellison and whomever else fills the vacant starter role will be as good). Again, same with Nate - we have no idea how good Youbouty will be.

So while we may adequately replace these guys, we still don't know for sure if the Bills have even replaced their mediocre performances. There will be a lot of pressure on Youbouty, Ellison and the two rookies who replace TKO and Willis to perform. Chances are, some, if not all, will rise to the challenge. But, until it happens we do not know.

[feelthepain]

Your post would have been dead on if for not the last sentence.

With that said I actually understand what is happening here and this has alot more to do with fielding a team that is "reliable".

As a fan the only frustration is that instead of 10-6 or 11-5 we are more realistically looking at 9-7.

Losing Nate is not that big. Losing Holcomb is a zero. Spikes played horrible last year so what are we missing? These we won't miss a beat on.

McGahee was a 1000 yard rusher behind a very suspect O-line. Wasn't a smart guy or a team leader but his numbers will be somewhat hard to replace. Ask the Jets what life was like last year with a better O-line than us.

Fletcher was a tackling machine even being late and out of position at times. Can we do better over the long haul with a Rookie? Yes. But he's not going to bring the same impact as a vet.

We'll need some luck to do better than 9-7.


Here's how it breaks down:

of the 267 LB's in the NFL last year. Spikes finished 67th even though he only played 12 games Fletcher finished 3rd

Of the 355 DB's in the league last year Clements finished 60th.

Of the 147 RB's in the league WM finished 20th playing in the the 27th best offense in the league.


Now looking at where the players the Bills lost finished last year, I'd say those players were impact players for the Bills and the NFL.

[patmoran2006]

Jaws is a big Bills fan..........So if he's talking down on us then pretty much everybody is...

And I do see is point.. Saying how much of an "impact" the guys that left made for us is debatable.. But whats NOT debatable is other than LG we've done little to better this team, and we head in the draft NEEDING to hit home runs so we dont fall farther behind everyone else.

[Ed]

I can see where Jaws is coming from, but free agency and the draft aren't over yet.

I really don't consider the trade of Spikes as losing an impact player because the truth is we lossed Spikes 2 years ago. Maybe he'll make an amazing comeback, but the fact is that he was invisible and pretty much irrelevant last year as far as impact goes. So to me, a 2007 Bills team without Spikes on the roster isn't any different then the 05 and 06 Bills that had him on the roster. If Spikes has another season like last year or even marginally better, I don't have any doubts that Walker will have a bigger impact for us.

McGahee? Please. He was as average as average gets last season. Was he our best RB last year? Yeah, unfortunately, but he also wasn't a free agent. We got 3 draft picks for the guy, so to me that's not a loss. If we can land Turner or pick up a RB on day one of the draft, I'll be happier with our RB situation then if we still had McGahee.

So really I think it comes down to the difference between upgrading the OL, our biggest weakness for the past however many years, or keeping Fletcher and Nate. I'll take the O-line. I don't think Fletcher and Clements shoes will be that hard to fill.

[patmoran2006]

I can see where Jaws is coming from, but free agency and the draft aren't over yet.

I really don't consider the trade of Spikes as losing an impact player because the truth is we lossed Spikes 2 years ago. Maybe he'll make an amazing comeback, but the fact is that he was invisible and pretty much irrelevant last year as far as impact goes. So to me, a 2007 Bills team without Spikes on the roster isn't any different then the 05 and 06 Bills that had him on the roster. If Spikes has another season like last year or even marginally better, I don't have any doubts that Walker will have a bigger impact for us.

McGahee? Please. He was as average as average gets last season. Was he our best RB last year? Yeah, unfortunately, but he also wasn't a free agent. We got 3 draft picks for the guy, so to me that's not a loss. If we can land Turner or pick up a RB on day one of the draft, I'll be happier with our RB situation then if we still had McGahee.

So really I think it comes down to the difference between upgrading the OL, our biggest weakness for the past however many years, or keeping Fletcher and Nate. I'll take the O-line. I don't think Fletcher and Clements shoes will be that hard to fill.
your posts are non-objective, unbiased and impressive.

[feelthepain]

I can see where Jaws is coming from, but free agency and the draft aren't over yet.

I really don't consider the trade of Spikes as losing an impact player because the truth is we lossed Spikes 2 years ago. Maybe he'll make an amazing comeback, but the fact is that he was invisible and pretty much irrelevant last year as far as impact goes. So to me, a 2007 Bills team without Spikes on the roster isn't any different then the 05 and 06 Bills that had him on the roster. If Spikes has another season like last year or even marginally better, I don't have any doubts that Walker will have a bigger impact for us.

McGahee? Please. He was as average as average gets last season. Was he our best RB last year? Yeah, unfortunately, but he also wasn't a free agent. We got 3 draft picks for the guy, so to me that's not a loss. If we can land Turner or pick up a RB on day one of the draft, I'll be happier with our RB situation then if we still had McGahee.

So really I think it comes down to the difference between upgrading the OL, our biggest weakness for the past however many years, or keeping Fletcher and Nate. I'll take the O-line. I don't think Fletcher and Clements shoes will be that hard to fill.

Maybe you should read my post above because your opinions don't match their output. Bill fans need to realize your WHOLE TEAM and COACHING STAFF were also resposible for the lack of success not just the four players lost. The Bills depth on the whole team was their problem aswell as their starting Oline last year.

[Saratoga Slim]

I can see where Jaws is coming from, but free agency and the draft aren't over yet.

I really don't consider the trade of Spikes as losing an impact player because the truth is we lossed Spikes 2 years ago. Maybe he'll make an amazing comeback, but the fact is that he was invisible and pretty much irrelevant last year as far as impact goes. So to me, a 2007 Bills team without Spikes on the roster isn't any different then the 05 and 06 Bills that had him on the roster. If Spikes has another season like last year or even marginally better, I don't have any doubts that Walker will have a bigger impact for us.

McGahee? Please. He was as average as average gets last season. Was he our best RB last year? Yeah, unfortunately, but he also wasn't a free agent. We got 3 draft picks for the guy, so to me that's not a loss. If we can land Turner or pick up a RB on day one of the draft, I'll be happier with our RB situation then if we still had McGahee.

So really I think it comes down to the difference between upgrading the OL, our biggest weakness for the past however many years, or keeping Fletcher and Nate. I'll take the O-line. I don't think Fletcher and Clements shoes will be that hard to fill.
Great post. My only comment is that if you use Spikes' performance over the past two years (when he was injured) as your baseline, then you're absolutely right that we won't miss him at all. But I think the baseline for determining whether he's a net loss is not really what he contributed over the past two years, but what he's going to be able to do this year. Its impossible to know that at this point (which is why he got traded, and why I'm cool with the trade). But if he comes in and plays healthy for Philly, you've got to put him in the "loss" column.

[ddaryl]

As usual those are just excuses. I could understand losing one maybe two starters and replacing one of them. But the Bills lose 4 starters and don't replace any. I think the reason the Bill are getting a bad grade is because no matter how Bill fans want to sugarcoat this offseason, the Bills loses outweight their gaines. That's the bottom line, your draft would have to be outstanding just to recoup what you've lost. That's the point behind what people see. For you to hit on 4 of your 8 DP would be very tough to do and nothing is going to make up for the lost experience.


Give me a break on the excuses quote... that's laughable. It's a philosophy, and I understand fully on what they are trying to do. It makes absolutly no sense to try an rebuild a team around aging, slowing, disgruntled or injured vets... not even a smidgen of sense.

if the Bills are in another rebuild mode due to a new GM and new coach (which they are) and taking on a differnet build philosophy, then in the 1st 2-3 years you parlay as much as you can into new blood young talent, and draft picks. You let that core develope together, get familiar with the coaches, the playbook and the team philosophy and then you start adding the missing pieces.

Tom Doablow brought a few really good players in, but they were brought in and expected to have the Bills in playoff/Superbowl mode by 2006-2007. When Ralph and the fans got sick and tired of not seeing improvement from 4 or so years of Donablow we changed direction which means changing of personell etc...

You are right about experience, but if that experience is disgruntled, and handcuffs the team from being able to move forward then you cut bait early and make the changes necessary.

Right now the Bills are weak at RB, LB, and TE. We could use an bonafide upgrades at WR, DE, and DT but none of those positions are must have this season. Our CB's are a crap shoot, but I don't think they are that huge of a liability. We have good solid talent at the DB postions, but we might see some growing pains here.

We need a bonafide RB, but getting rid of Mcgahee was the best thing to happen to Buffalo, that asswipe deserves every bit of vile hate Buffalonians are showing him. He screwed Buffalo, and he didn't even care that he was. He couldn't block, didn't show up for offseasons, didn't grasp the playbook etc.... He is one very ugly selfish person, and you will read negativity about him more then once in his future... I guarentee it, McGahee doesn't have the discipline out side of working out to stay out of trouble IMO. He's one of those trouble magnets... mark my words.

However RB is my 2nd concern behind LB. Either we get a RB on day 1 or we pick up a serviceable FA and do a RB by committee approach.

We've improved the DT position with the Spikes trade, and we have 2 rookies from last year who should step it up some this year. mcCargo is heavier as is Kyle Williams.

We need better production from our DE's, but if the DT;'s are improved it will improve the DE position some IMO

We are weak at LB and that will get addressed early in the draft and possibly shored up some during June cuts. If the DT's are improived then that takes "SOME" of the pressure of the LB's

With our OL being improved our exisitng WR corps will also be improved. I would love to see a better bonafide #2 WR but we are not hurting here either.

TE is a postion I worry about regulalry, we have no bonafide TE.



Last year the Bills were 7-9, and I don't forsee us being worse then that this season. JP will be a better QB with an improved OL, which was demonstrated the 2nd half of last season. Our Offense in general should be at least as good as last season.

On D we have a young secondary, and weak LB corps. I expect we will definitely take steps to improve LB spot before the season begins. Our D may take a step backwards, but we'll still have plenty of cash next year to add a FA starting LB or CB in 2008 as well as keep our core in tact. I see no reason why the Bills won't be a significantly better and improving team (barring any major injury bugs) over the next couple of seasons. Which is all I expect or am expecting.

Demanding quick fixes, FA acquitions, and re-signing of vets who don't have much to offer long term is just foolish and would water down the ability to rebuild this team for a real run in it's near future


As for Miami, really what can a Miami fan say that would have anyone believing they've done a superior job in comparison tothe Bills in pretty much any category over the last 1/2 dozen year + ???????

[feelthepain]

Great post. My only comment is that if you use Spikes' performance over the past two years (when he was injured) as your baseline, then you're absolutely right that we won't miss him at all. But I think the baseline for determining whether he's a net loss is not really what he contributed over the past two years, but what he's going to be able to do this year. Its impossible to know that at this point (which is why he got traded, and why I'm cool with the trade). But if he comes in and plays healthy for Philly, you've got to put him in the "loss" column.


You're wrong, experience is vital to success. Not one successful team in the league is void of aging experienced players. You're trying to make excuses for the Bills moves and there aren't any. Why? Cause even if you get rid of the aging players you still didn't replace them with anything. BTW, Willis and Nate aren't aging players. Fletcher was the 3rd best rated LB in the league last year according to his stas. And Spikes, while no spring chicken, could very easily play at a probowl level for another 3,4 or maybe 5 years. Also maybe the reason the player are disgruntled is because of the way the Bills refuse to go out and get the type of players they need to, to win! Just because you sign 4 or 5 big names doesn't mean your depth can be ignored.

As for Miami, we've had 4 winning season and 2 losing seasons the last 6 years. I believe 2 of those 6 seasons we had double digit winning seasons and still didn't make the playoffs cause the AFC was so tough.

[gr8slayer]

Here's how it breaks down:

of the 267 LB's in the NFL last year. Spikes finished 67th even though he only played 12 games Fletcher finished 3rd

Of the 355 DB's in the league last year Clements finished 60th.

Of the 147 RB's in the league WM finished 20th playing in the the 27th best offense in the league.


Now looking at where the players the Bills lost finished last year, I'd say those players were impact players for the Bills and the NFL.
Yeah those 960 yards by Mcgahee will be really hard to recover from :rolleyes:

Spikes was not the IMPACT player he was before the injury, anyone can do what he did last year.

Fletcher is the only one that will be missed. Other than that your argument has no basis.

[gr8slayer]

You're wrong, experience is vital to success. Not one successful team in the league is void of aging experienced players. You're trying to make excuses for the Bills moves and there aren't any. Why? Cause even if you get rid of the aging players you still didn't replace them with anything. BTW, Willis and Nate aren't aging players. Fletcher was the 3rd best rated LB in the league last year according to his stas. And Spikes, while no spring chicken, could very easily play at a probowl level for another 3,4 or maybe 5 years. Also maybe the reason the player are disgruntled is because of the way the Bills refuse to go out and get the type of players they need to, to win! Just because you sign 4 or 5 big names doesn't mean your depth can be ignored.

As for Miami, we've had 4 winning season and 2 losing seasons the last 6 years.
Yeah, it's done the Dolphins alot of good the past five years hasn't it/

[Mr. Miyagi]

Maybe you should read my post above because your opinions don't match their output. Bill fans need to realize your WHOLE TEAM and COACHING STAFF were also resposible for the lack of success not just the four players lost. The Bills depth on the whole team was their problem aswell as their starting Oline last year.
OMG we just got *****slapped by the guy in a glass house.

[feelthepain]

OMG we just got *****slapped by the guy in a glass house.

Do you see anyone saying the fins offseason's been one of the worst?? No!

[gr8slayer]

Do you see anyone saying the fins offseason's been one of the worst?? No!
I remember the "experts" saying the Dolphins were going to the SB last year :rofl:

[madness]

Jaws always overreacts. If you don't believe me, just check out my sig.

[Ed]

Maybe you should read my post above...
I'd rather not. If I never read one of your posts again it will be too soon.

[raphael120]

what marv sees:

keep clements, mcgahee, spikes, fletcher and miss the playoffs with them for 3 years straight

or...

keep jp, evans, whitner, simpson, peters that have the best chance of getting us to the playoffs for years to come.

just stinks that as of right now, the only proven great players are evans and peters...jp is close, as is crowell and whitner....but other than that, who do we have? this is the year for us to find out....

[Nighthawk]

Seems to me it's the overwhelming opinion for the Bills offseason so far, from most of what I've read. A lot of fans here seem to think Marvs plan is to get younger. I think that's a good idea, but you can't get rid of your experience and have only youth to start at 65-70% of the team. I think this is Marv doing the best he can with RW squeezing the life out of the Bills.

True, but I also believe everybody was saying how great an offseason the Dolphins had last year and that they would be a favorite to go to the Super Bowl. It doesn't matter what opinions are thrown around now, there is a long offseason to go.

[DMBcrew36]

Takeo Spikes is no longer an impact player. I hate how analysts and football gurus think they know so much yet they still think this guy is an impact player. If they had taken the time to actually watch him last season, they would have seen that he has no explosiveness. The guy has no burst towards the ball. Why pay him such a large sum of money if he is only going to be mediochre?

[Jan Reimers]

Jaws is simply a part of the main stream media, confusing players' names and reputations for actual, current performance on the field.

[Night Train]

The reason why we had so many starters out of our draft is because our roster isn't very good. It's not because them players are just so damn good. If they were as good as some of you make them out to be then we would have been in the playoffs.

You put that draft class in Baltimore or another franchise with steady talent and Whitner probably would've been the only one. Maybe Simpson. It's not like the rookies that did play had a great impact. Whitner was decent but the rest of them didn't have an impact.

Also, the only starters I see from that class beyond more then a few games last season is Whitner and Simpson. Ellison may start this year by defaul and not because he was so great. Pennington was such a great starter last year they replaced him for a 25 million dollar, 11 sack a year player.


In other threads, you pan the idea of trading picks for Michael Turner and Briggs. Then spend this thread saying we need players and not more young draft picks who aren't really that good. Their worth is imagined.

So to summarize your thinking..
Our roster isn't good, draft picks aren't the answer and trading picks for Briggs or Turner isn't the answer.

MARV ! DON'T DO ANYTHING !

[GarnOFreak]

.... Your secondary wasn't really tested because everyone ran the ball down the Bills throat. Whitner was still a reach for the Bills last year, your other first round pick that was also a reach didn't even contribute, So lets not go overboard with your opinion of your draft last year.

wait a minute? are you saying that teams ran against us so much that our pass defense looked good ONLY because people never threw against us?

http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/BUF/2006/regular

I think 476 run attempts versus 513 pass attempts(17th in the league) puts that sentence to bed.

But just in case you think they weren't tested, what about the 32.1 attempts averaged per game aginst the Bills Secondary? Half the teams in the league averaged less passes thrown against them than us.

[feelthepain]

wait a minute? are you saying that teams ran against us so much that our pass defense looked good ONLY because people never threw against us?

http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/BUF/2006/regular

I think 476 run attempts versus 513 pass attempts(17th in the league) puts that sentence to bed.

But just in case you think they weren't tested, what about the 32.1 attempts averaged per game aginst the Bills Secondary? Half the teams in the league averaged less passes thrown against them than us.


Besides the fact that Buffalo had one of the worst rushing defenses in the league last year the Bills secondary also gave up one of the highest compl. % of any secondary. In other words QB's were completing passes at an avg. of over 62% per game. I never siad your secondary was god awful, just that they weren't really tested because teams could move the ball without a problem on the ground. Therefore the better way to attack the Bills was on the ground and that's where teams would focus their game plan. Not that teams would just refuse to throw the ball on the Bills because they could just run it.

Miami's secondary was called a very weak part of their D last year, but we finished higher then the Bills and we had a new starter at almost every position in our secondary last year. With like 1/2 an attempt per game less then the Bills, but nearly 6% less in pass completions per game, that's a big number.