slow white Linebackers

[Hammertime]

According to some of the more active members on this board Penn State's latest LB offering is a slow, smallish white guy that will be a big time bust in the NFL. These people have never seen him play and base their opinions on an ignorance seeped in good old, time-honored sports racism. I suppose they would accept Poz over, say Buster Davis, if the Bills were looking for a more cerebral LB to fit our scheme.

Either way, the Bills should never pick Poz at the #12 spot because that spot is reserved for future superstars. This time of year is wonderful for the football fortune tellers. They can watch game tape montages on YouTube and analyze athletic measurements like the standing long jump and a guy who was just another NCAA jock a year ago is now worthy of a coveted first round pick.

Go ahead and look back of the past few first rounds and compare them to the rest of the rounds and you'll find the biggest myth in pro football. The only people who truly benefit from this myth are the agents. Those athletes that cannot live up to the hyped billing are burned by the harsh spotlight and quickly go down as 'busts'.

Marv understands this. If there is someone the Bills like and they suspect another team behind them likes, they will take that player at twelve (regardless of the first round value scale). They did it with Whitner. He they like Poz, they will take him at twelve and the only way he becomes a 'bust' is if he gets injured... but slow white linebackers get injured easily, right?

[OpIv37]

I smell a bitter Penn State fan.

Pos is not good enough to go 12. If we can get him late first or early 2nd, fine, but he will not come in and make an immediate impact. And because Marv let Spikes and Fletcher go, we are in desperate need of an LB who can make an immediate impact.

If you want to overpay and miss an opportunity to get a better player, by all means- pick Pos at 12.

[billsburgh]

:bf1:

[OpIv37]

sorry but good GM's get good value for their picks. Pos at 12 is not good value. If he's the guy the FO wants, trade down and get an extra pick out of it. Otherwise, pick a player who will be worth the 12th overall pick and commensurate salary.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I really like Tim Shaw.

How about this myth:

I love it when a guy tears his PCL and MCL and nobody ever mentions it if they like the guy. If they don't like the guy he is injury prone or an injury risk.

[gr8slayer]

Zach Thomas is an old, slow, white LB yet he is by far the best LB in the league year after year.

[mayotm]

Based on what most "experts" are saying, Poz at 12 is too high. However, Hammertime makes some great points. I guarentee there are a lot of people on this board throwing around opinions on Poz (and many other players) when they've never seen them play a single down.

[OpIv37]

Zach Thomas is an old, slow, white LB yet he is by far the best LB in the league year after year.

first, Zach Thomas is good, but he's not the best LB in the league. He' may be in the top 15.

Second, the author is making the faulty assumption that the criticism of Pos is due to stereotypes about slow, white linebackers. It's not. It's based on how he played. The guy is a solid, blue chip-type player but that doesn't make him worth the #12 overall pick.

Third, Hammertime is also assuming that people are calling Pos a bust cuz they don't want him at 12. Whitner turned out to be good, but it would have been insane if, for example, SF took him at 4 with Vernon Davis, Michael Huff and AJ Hawk still on the board. You need value for your picks.

[justasportsfan]

Whoever thinks race has anything to do with it is :coocoo: You guys remember Spielman and PauP ?

[justasportsfan]

Pos is not good enough to go 12. If we can get him late first or early 2nd, fine, but he will not come in and make an immediate impact. And because Marv let Spikes and Fletcher go, we are in desperate need of an LB who can make an immediate impact.
.

If you want to overpay and miss an opportunity to get a better player, by all means- pick Pos at 12. Here we go again. You build a great team for years to come VIA THE DRAFT, period! I don't care if he makes an immediate impact right away or not as long as a player becomes a great player for this team for years to come.

[OpIv37]

Here we go again. You build a great team for years to come VIA THE DRAFT, period! I don't care if he makes an immediate impact right away or not as long as a player becomes a great player for this team for years to come.

that's fine- just be willing to accept another 7-9 season. Personally, I'm ****ing sick of losing seasons.

[User Manuel]

My opinion, outlined in the other thread, is simply a reference to the fact that I just don't think Posluszny is that good, period. Black/white/indian/asian/ whatever he is going to be, at best, an average NFL linebacker IMHO.

If the Bills sign an illegal alien who is 4'3" to play MLB and he is good, bring him on. I just don't want to settle for avergae with the 12th pick.

[gr8slayer]

first, Zach Thomas is good, but he's not the best LB in the league. He' may be in the top 15.

Second, the author is making the faulty assumption that the criticism of Pos is due to stereotypes about slow, white linebackers. It's not. It's based on how he played. The guy is a solid, blue chip-type player but that doesn't make him worth the #12 overall pick.

Third, Hammertime is also assuming that people are calling Pos a bust cuz they don't want him at 12. Whitner turned out to be good, but it would have been insane if, for example, SF took him at 4 with Vernon Davis, Michael Huff and AJ Hawk still on the board. You need value for your picks.
Give me a better MLB in the league than Thomas.

[OpIv37]

Give me a better MLB in the league than Thomas.

Urlacher. Adalius Thomas. That's two right off the top of my head.

[justasportsfan]

that's fine- just be willing to accept another 7-9 season. Personally, I'm ****ing sick of losing seasons.
then go cheer for another team. This team is rebuilding and that's a FACT! Deal with it.

[gr8slayer]

Urlacher. Adalius Thomas. That's two right off the top of my head.
Thomas > Urlacher

[OpIv37]

then go cheer for another team. This team is rebuilding and that's a FACT! Deal with it.

If it was that easy to just switch teams, I wouldn't devote nearly this much time to *****ing about the Bills.

And anyway, you're not making any sense. Any draft pick should be able to contribute for years, so if we can get one who can fill an immediate need as well as be on the team for years, why would we take a prospect that's going to take 2-3 years to develop instead?

[OpIv37]

Thomas > Urlacher

You're wrong. I'd take Urlacher over Zach Thomas in a second.

[Ickybaluky]

You're wrong. I'd take Urlacher over Zach Thomas in a second.

Yeah, it isnt' even close. Zach Thomas doesn't stay on the field anywhere near as many plays as Urlacher, and can't do nearly as many things well.

[Hammertime]

Whitner turned out to be good, but it would have been insane if, for example, SF took him at 4 with Vernon Davis, Michael Huff and AJ Hawk still on the board. You need value for your picks.

Are you more concerned with how the Bills will be viewed by the fortune-telling draft experts or with the end result of our picks on the field?

After last year's draft, and compared to TD's drafts, i have total faith Marv and Co. will stock this team with real football talent as opposed to hyped-up on paper potential.

[Captain gameboy]

Seems to me that there are two components to the draft.
Primarily, you need to help your team.
That is most obvious and easy to accomplish.

I think that is what Marv did last year.

A really good GM sees the other component though, and that is using other team's needs to leverage your position to help your team even greater, and I don't think he did that.

The NFL draft is not the same as going into a grocery store and picking up just what you need. The elite use other teams needs to put themselves in a greater position.

I'd be really glad if we took Willis at 12.
He's the no-brainer, with the two running backs as close seconds.

If he is gone, the last thing I want to see is jumping on Pos at that position, simply because we are desperate for a linebacker.

If it comes to us and our number one need is gone; a player who is a justifiable 12 pick, then I would like to see Marv work the second component, which is to trade down.

It is easy to rate last year's draft as a success because of the starters it provided.
That disregards the second component, and I don't want to do that again.

Learn the game and play the game, and the draft is a game played against the other 31.

[justasportsfan]

If it was that easy to just switch teams, I wouldn't devote nearly this much time to *****ing about the Bills.

And anyway, you're not making any sense. Any draft pick should be able to contribute for years, so if we can get one who can fill an immediate need as well as be on the team for years, why would we take a prospect that's going to take 2-3 years to develop instead?
who the hell wants to sign with the bills if he knows he's on his way out in a year or 2? A STOP GAP player. That's exactly why Fletcher left on the first place. ONce again it's NOT MARV"S fault that Clements, Fletcher and TKO asked to leave or else they'd still be here and you be *****ing about a different position.

You want a lb'er who can come in and make an impact? Sign someone like Briggs or Thomas (before pats) . How do you think our cap will look like down the road? We can't sign every high priced player without suffering the cap consequences down the road . How many times do I have to repeat to you this is not the redskins.

Do you remember the year TD came in and had to deal with the cap? We ended up 3-13 with guys like Robinson because that's all we could afford. Enough of these STOP GAPS.

You said we don't rebuild like the PAts and colts do? WRONG! After rebuilding via the draft, they RETOOLED with guys like Colvin. Huge difference. YOU can't RETOOL every HOLE in 1 season without killing your cap down the road.

It's not like MArv wanted to rebuild, HE HAD NO CHOICE! Once again these guys CHOSE to leave whether it was for more money or supposedly playing for a playoff team.


Sorry hammertime. It get s so freakin old when people are too densed to understand the process of rebuilding.

[Tatonka]

Urlacher. Adalius Thomas. That's two right off the top of my head.
thomas is not a MLB.

[LtFinFan66]

There's a slow, undersized white guy that has been roaming behind the line in Miami the past decade:idunno:

[OpIv37]

You said we don't rebuild like the PAts and colts do? WRONG! After rebuilding via the draft, they RETOOLED with guys like Colvin. Huge difference. YOU can't RETOOL every HOLE in 1 season without killing your cap down the road.
.

no, but we plugged one of many holes and created 3 new ones in the process. That's breaking down, not rebuliding. The Pats built up AS they tore down- they didn't tear down to NOTHING and then try to build from there.

[LtFinFan66]

first, Zach Thomas is good, but he's not the best LB in the league. He' may be in the top 15.

Second, the author is making the faulty assumption that the criticism of Pos is due to stereotypes about slow, white linebackers. It's not. It's based on how he played. The guy is a solid, blue chip-type player but that doesn't make him worth the #12 overall pick.

Third, Hammertime is also assuming that people are calling Pos a bust cuz they don't want him at 12. Whitner turned out to be good, but it would have been insane if, for example, SF took him at 4 with Vernon Davis, Michael Huff and AJ Hawk still on the board. You need value for your picks.MAY be in the top 15 :rofl: Led the league in tackles and went to the ProBowl. May not be the best but MAY be in the top 15. You have to be ****ting me Op

[Bmax]

Posluszny is going to be a good one.....Is he worth thew 12th pick ? In my opinon YES !!!!! Why...he makes plays ....Football in the NFL is not just about running a 4.4 -40 and weighing 245 lbs.. It 's about Film study...Off season work outs....How you handle off the field issues .. My question is ... Is the guy that you are drafting a leader ? Pos is that..So is willis......

I just get a feeling that who ever drafts this kid is going to get a good football player....

One who will come into camp ready to play and be a starter .. Know his playbook.. And be a leader on and off the field.....At 12 that's a good deaL....

Either Willis Or Posluszny will give the bills a good linebacker at 12......


BMAX

[BILLSROCK1212]

Pos currently is a mid-first rounder oo and by the way he can play ILB and OLB

[SABURZFAN]

i hope we don't draft The Putz.

[BILLSROCK1212]

i hope we don't draft The Putz.if we trade down i have no problem with him

[kernowboy]

It is a reasonably young team and certainly a young defence.

Marv & Dick will certainly consider the intangibles that a player will bring, not just what he can offer at the combine on the stopwatch and in the weights room but what else he brings to the team.

Because of this, Paul Posluzny will go higher in the draft that his physical attributes warrant because of the intelligence, leadership and character he will bring to the team. We don't need to be a Cinncinnati or a Jacksonville.

I think we also need to consider his performance last season was influence by two factors -

1) a new position
2) a serious injury not requiring surgery but still one that physically and mentally takes time to overcome.

I would prefer us to trade down and get an extra R3 and grab Posluzny. But I'd rather grab Posluzny at 12 than risk not being able to grab him at all.

[Philagape]

What type of player is more likely to be a bust?

-- A guy who doesn't have elite skills but has outstanding work ethic, character and intelligence?
or
-- An athletic freak who scouts drool over but has motivational problems and can't make the mental adjustment?

With everything I've read about Poz's intangibles, there is no reason to believe he won't make the adjustment. He sounds very coachable and will give his all. And does not lack the physical tools.