Can someone explain this to me

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Instead of trading for Turner, who himself was a 5th rounder 3 years ago, why can't the Bills draft a Turner themselves later this month?

Who has heard of Turner 3 years ago in the draft? So why is that it is Peterson or Lynch or we're screwed at RB?

If we spend so much money in our front office and scouts, then have some faith in them.

The proven way to build a team is the draft. If we pin our hope to outbid someone for some perceived/real talent from other teams, we are never - mark my word never - going to be successful.

[Italian Stallion]

I agree 100 percent

[more cowbell]

yup

[Don't Panic]

Well, we are already in a position where we're going to have to rely on our scouts quite a bit (LB, etc.) in this draft, so it makes sense to take a little pressure off of them (and a little chance out of the gamble that is the draft) and get an established player when we can. There is no telling how a guy will translate to the professional level... in Turner you have a guy who, in glimpses has shown that he can compete at this level. I agree that we shouldn't overpay for him, but he "grades out" better than anyone but AP in this draft, so you have to think he's worth it if we can get him for a single pick.

[jamesiscool]

Instead of trading for Turner, who himself was a 5th rounder 3 years ago, why can't the Bills draft a Turner themselves later this month?

Who has heard of Turner 3 years ago in the draft? So why is that it is Peterson or Lynch or we're screwed at RB?

If we spend so much money in our front office and scouts, then have some faith in them.

The proven way to build a team is the draft. If we pin our hope to outbid someone for some perceived/real talent from other teams, we are never - mark my word never - going to be successful.

this just my opinion on this, so if you dont agree with me dont call me crazy....

i agree with you, to a point. you can't bet on getting a late round starting RB sleeper at anytime.

AND turner has been in the league for 5 years now and he has learned what it takes to be a RB in the NFL, where a rookie would be starting new and expected to produce in a RBBC from day one.

sooooo yes it is possible, but its not a very safe bet.

[OpIv37]

Instead of trading for Turner, who himself was a 5th rounder 3 years ago, why can't the Bills draft a Turner themselves later this month?

Who has heard of Turner 3 years ago in the draft? So why is that it is Peterson or Lynch or we're screwed at RB?

If we spend so much money in our front office and scouts, then have some faith in them.

The proven way to build a team is the draft. If we pin our hope to outbid someone for some perceived/real talent from other teams, we are never - mark my word never - going to be successful.

see this thread:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=123728

Turner has shown big-play ability in the NFL. The only knock on him is that he hasn't been asked to carry the load, but when you look at his size, speed, strength and performance as a back up, there are very few flaws.

Draft picks:
a) aren't guaranteed to be there when we pick
b) aren't guaranteed to perform well. There is always an element of risk in drafting- you never know when you're gonna get a Ki Jana Carter with a high pick or a Tom Brady with a 2nd day pick.

If we can fill one of our biggest holes (RB and LB IMO) with a trade before the draft, why risk filling them on a draft pick when there is a less risky option?

[jamesiscool]

oh yea and i forgot.... we got SHAUD WILLIAMS on the roster. best rb in the IMO...

:couch:

[Tatonka]

couple things..

as far as turner.. if i hear that he cant carry the load one more time, i am gonna puke.

HE DID CARRY THE LOAD.. he was the ONLY workhorse back in college and logged WAY more carries than Lynch did over the two years there.

as far as finding a 5th round gem that could turn into a premier back.. it doesnt happen that often honestly.

you cant EXPECT to get a terrell davis or in this case, michael turner, from the 5th round of this draft.

there are a few guys that i think fit the profile of later round picks that look like they could carry the load if the stars align.. wynn from florida and chris henry (based on size, and workout numbers, not on production). and of course there is bush, if he falls to the second day.

i am not willing to take that chance.

[OpIv37]

oh yea and i forgot.... we got SHAUD WILLIAMS on the roster. best rb in the IMO...

:couch:

just don't exhale in his general direction- he'll fall over. Same with Roscoe Parrish.

[Earthquake Enyart]

The teams that "find" the 5th round gems are generally the teams that already have great OL's.

[patmoran2006]

couple things..

as far as turner.. if i hear that he cant carry the load one more time, i am gonna puke.

HE DID CARRY THE LOAD.. he was the ONLY workhorse back in college and logged WAY more carries than Lynch did over the two years there.

as far as finding a 5th round gem that could turn into a premier back.. it doesnt happen that often honestly.

you cant EXPECT to get a terrell davis or in this case, michael turner, from the 5th round of this draft.

there are a few guys that i think fit the profile of later round picks that look like they could carry the load if the stars align.. wynn from florida and chris henry (based on size, and workout numbers, not on production). and of course there is bush, if he falls to the second day.

i am not willing to take that chance.
agreed (and I like Wynn too).
But dont take that chance. Between Peterson, Lynch or Turner, One of these guys needs to be the feature runner for Buffalo next season; and my pick is Turner because Peterson would cost too much to move up, as Turner I'm SURE could end up being had for something other than our first rounder.

Right now, I'm really hoping Chris Brown either resigns with Tenn or goes to GB. I think it makes Turner's value go down.

If Tenn was to resign Brown and GB takes Lynch. Turner's trade value plummets some

[jamesiscool]

agreed (and I like Wynn too).
But dont take that chance. Between Peterson, Lynch or Turner, One of these guys needs to be the feature runner for Buffalo next season; and my pick is Turner because Peterson would cost too much to move up, as Turner I'm SURE could end up being had for something other than our first rounder.

Right now, I'm really hoping Chris Brown either resigns with Tenn or goes to GB. I think it makes Turner's value go down.

If Tenn was to resign Brown and GB takes Lynch. Turner's trade value plummets some

this is weird..... me and pat ar agreeing again..... am i in bizzarro world?

[Tatonka]

like i said.. the problem is.. that even if we were completing with no one.. the chargers value turner a great deal in what he means to that team.

i heard AJ Smith on siruis 2 days ago.. he basically said that they feel they have a superbowl team.. and they have to have insurance at the running back spot. right now they feel that if something happened to LT.. then they love the fact that they have Turner.

he went on to say that at least if they lose turner, they are assured of getting 2 draft picks..

now again.. i dont know how much of that is posturing.. but he didnt sound like he was kidding and he has a valid point.

[Earthquake Enyart]

like i said.. the problem is.. that even if we were completing with no one.. the chargers value turner a great deal in what he means to that team.

i heard AJ Smith on siruis 2 days ago.. he basically said that they feel they have a superbowl team.. and they have to have insurance at the running back spot. right now they feel that if something happened to LT.. then they love the fact that they have Turner.

he went on to say that at least if they lose turner, they are assured of getting 2 draft picks..

now again.. i dont know how much of that is posturing.. but he didnt sound like he was kidding and he has a valid point.
It's no skin off his nose if Turner stays.

That's why I think it will take at least a 1st to get him. These guys who think they can throw AJ a second are high.

[Tatonka]

i hope your wrong.. but i can clearly see his side of it for sure. turner helps them win games.. and they dont have a lot of holes to fill.. so it is not like they need the extra picks really.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

See that's the theory the Redskins subscirbe to (and Donahoe to a large degree): we grade out so-and-so better than our draft projection; it then makes logical sense to trade away picks for those so-and-so.

It make sense, doesn't it? Snyder and his people are not stupid. Like all successful people, they do things with logical reasoning.

But the reality is that those very successful teams need to discover talents, especially those unpolished ones. In NFL, the chance to do that is your draft picks. Trading away draft picks, you trade away your chance for discovering talents, or in business terms, chance of inventions.

Do you ever look at high tech businesses? Great successful companies continually roll out new inventions. Other so-so companies buy existing technologies, making copies. Snyder's Redskins basically buys existing commodities. They give up spending for discovering their new gigs. That's why they might do OK but never be truly great.

There is risk in fishing for diamonds. In football, it's hard to draft talents. But if the Bills are in this business, then they should aim high and take the proper path. They need right people at the right positions. Like in business world, only a few high tech companies are consistently great. But you can never get there if you never try that path.

[Mr. Miyagi]

It's no skin off his nose if Turner stays.
This year, no. But as a GM he's supposed to look at the big picture and plan for not just this year but for years to come. After this season Turner will walk and SD will get nothing back for him. That's why they should be motivated to move him now while they can still get something for him, and something worth while.

Don't let AJ Smith fool you into he doesn't care if he can't strike a deal. Either he has a good poker face or he's very shortsighted.

[The Answer]

Instead of trading for Turner, who himself was a 5th rounder 3 years ago, why can't the Bills draft a Turner themselves later this month?

Who has heard of Turner 3 years ago in the draft? So why is that it is Peterson or Lynch or we're screwed at RB?

If we spend so much money in our front office and scouts, then have some faith in them.

The proven way to build a team is the draft. If we pin our hope to outbid someone for some perceived/real talent from other teams, we are never - mark my word never - going to be successful.

You need a good front office to build a team through the draft - including GM, scouts (at pro and collegiate levels), OWNER, etc.

Right now this organization is sorely lacking in all these areas.

~The Answer

[mikemac2001]

see this thread:

[url]- you never know when you're gonna get a Ki Jana Carter with a high pick or a Tom Brady with a 2nd day pick.


Please stop using carter as an example dude was good RB who took a bad shot to his knee in preseason he wasnt a bust his knee just went and could never return to form. Its not like he was an eric flowers or something and just was an NFL bust

[Devin]

Instead of trading for Turner, who himself was a 5th rounder 3 years ago, why can't the Bills draft a Turner themselves later this month?

Who has heard of Turner 3 years ago in the draft? So why is that it is Peterson or Lynch or we're screwed at RB?

If we spend so much money in our front office and scouts, then have some faith in them.

The proven way to build a team is the draft. If we pin our hope to outbid someone for some perceived/real talent from other teams, we are never - mark my word never - going to be successful.

I do have faith in our front office, thats why if they trade for turner im ok with it :up:

Well according to this logic, why cant we draft the next Colston while we are at it. We do after all have 2 shots in the 7th to make it happen! :rolleyes:

Or better yet draft that future Briggs in the 3rd, we have 2 shots there as well.

Its not that we are screwed while Im not a fan of Lynch's I wouldnt be completley dissapointed with the pick....primarily just cause its a need but if we can get Turner and use #12 at LB id be happier.

[OpIv37]

Please stop using carter as an example dude was good RB who took a bad shot to his knee in preseason he wasnt a bust his knee just went and could never return to form. Its not like he was an eric flowers or something and just was an NFL bust

another overly sensitive PSU fan....

The point holds true, though- Turner or any draft pick could suffer a career ending injury, but at least Turner has shown durability at the NFL level so he's less of a risk on that front.

[Mr. Pink]

See that's the theory the Redskins subscirbe to (and Donahoe to a large degree): we grade out so-and-so better than our draft projection; it then makes logical sense to trade away picks for those so-and-so.

It make sense, doesn't it? Snyder and his people are not stupid. Like all successful people, they do things with logical reasoning.

But the reality is that those very successful teams need to discover talents, especially those unpolished ones. In NFL, the chance to do that is your draft picks. Trading away draft picks, you trade away your chance for discovering talents, or in business terms, chance of inventions.

Do you ever look at high tech businesses? Great successful companies continually roll out new inventions. Other so-so companies buy existing technologies, making copies. Snyder's Redskins basically buys existing commodities. They give up spending for discovering their new gigs. That's why they might do OK but never be truly great.

There is risk in fishing for diamonds. In football, it's hard to draft talents. But if the Bills are in this business, then they should aim high and take the proper path. They need right people at the right positions. Like in business world, only a few high tech companies are consistently great. But you can never get there if you never try that path.

The Steelers were pretty successful bringing in re-tread Jerome Bettis. The Rams did fairly well with Marshall Faulk. KC did alright with Priest Holmes. Corey Dillon to the Pats. Travis Henry played well last year in Tenn. Ricky Williams before his ganja fest was pretty good in Miami. It's not like Portis hasn't pulled his weight out in Redskin country. Steven Davis was a good addition for the Panthers at the time.

I guess that kills your "That's why they might do OK but never be truly great." theory. Considering the Steelers, Pats and Rams all won SBs with "making copies," in their backfields. I can use other examples going back further than just the past 8 years, such as Earnest Byner and his contribution to the 91 Redskins, but I think that would be overkill.

Thing is, if everyone subscribed to your theory...No one would have ever known how good Priest Holmes could be. And this isn't limited to just RBs...Brett Favre, Mark Brunnell, Kurt Warner are other examples.