ESPN Rebuttal

[Devin]

ESPN RIPS THE BILLS

We haven't watched many of the "On the Clock" segments that have been aired on SportsCenter over the past few weeks. Primarily because we rarely watch SportsCenter.Primarily because SportsCenter has become unwatchable for anyone older than 15 who has an IQ higher than 16. But we saw Sunday's "On the Clock" feature regarding the Buffalo Bills, and we were shocked at how mercilessly Chris Mortensen, Darren Woodson, and Mel Kiper Jr. trashed the franchise.


They focused primarily on the fact that four veterans are now gone -- running back Willis McGahee, linebacker London Fletcher-Baker-Robbins-Oppenheim-and-Taft, cornerback Nate Clements, and linebacker Takeo Spikes. And the trio suggested that the franchise is merely cutting payroll, possibly in advance of a sale of the team.
But they completely ignored the fact that the Bills paid big money to defensive end Chris Kelsay and offensive linemen Langston Walker and Derrick Dockery.

In our view, the piece was fully out of balance, and we were shocked that none of those three guys presented a more accurate view of the team.

First of all, McGahee was moved because McGahee wanted out. Destined to be a free agent in 2008, the Bills got what they could for him now, which was a package including two first-day picks. Though they might have been able to get Clements to take Derrick Dockery money in the fall of 2006, we can't fault the Bills for not getting into the overbidding for Clements in March. He is a solid corner but no Champ Bailey. The Niners clearly overpaid. As to the two linebackers who aren't there anymore, well, they're both on the old side -- and Spikes possibly is on the down side.

Getting dissed is fine and dandy for the Bills. It's always better to be among the overlooked NFL franchises, since it's easier to catch the teams that are supposed to be "better" on paper off guard. Depending on whether they can get a top-notch tailback in round one, we think the Bills will be a factor in 2007. Even if the guys at ESPN are ready to write them off.


Then again, it was Mel Kiper who suggested prior to the 2001 season that the Patriots could be the first team in NFL history to go 0-16. Mel was only a little bit off in his assessment.


http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

You know this article aside these guys have become more credible by the minute, I love the way they call out ESPN's Len P and other writers for plagerism and thier horrible writing.

[feelthepain]

But they completely ignored the fact that the Bills paid big money to defensive end Chris Kelsay and offensive linemen Langston Walker and Derrick Dockery.


They didn't ignore this, they talked about Dockey saying he was an improvement to the Bills. They also talked about the Bills having a good coaching staff. They think a Good draft for the Bills would be Patrick Willis in the first round and Antonio Pittman in the second.

As much as Bill fans hate to admit it, losing the talent they lost will hurt, quite a bit. You Bill fans blame WM production on his attitude and not the weak Oline, but then talk about how much better the Bills will be with the addition of Dockery and Langston Walker. A little two faced if you ask me. You ignore the importance of Fletchers leadership like it's not important. You ignore the fact that Clements was your best corner and then you claim Spikes was washed up. Do you notice how every player wasn't a loss?? Every player that's gone was the problem? Ecery year it's the same with Bill fans, whomever leaves was the problem. I think it's just plain stupid to think those players weren't important to your team. You didn't lose 4 backups you lost 4 starters. Also don't use the "well we weren't very good with them" excuse, do you honestly think your backups are the ones that played well and your starters were the problem?? I think the Bills repot on ESPN was a good report and it was accurate.

[LtFinFan66]

People concern themselves way too much with what the media says. WAY TOO MUCH!!

[Devin]

As much as Bill fans hate to admit it, losing the talent they lost will hurt, quite a bit. You Bill fans blame WM production on his attitude and not the weak Oline, but then talk about how much better the Bills will be with the addition of Dockery and Langston Walker. A little two faced if you ask me. You ignore the importance of Fletchers leadership like it's not important. You ignore the fact that Clements was your best corner and then you claim Spikes was washed up. Do you notice how every player wasn't a loss?? Every player that's gone was the problem? Ecery year it's the same with Bill fans, whomever leaves was the problem. I think it's just plain stupid to think those players weren't important to your team. You didn't lose 4 backups you lost 4 starters. Also don't use the "well we weren't very good with them" excuse, do you honestly think your backups are the ones that played well and your starters were the problem?? I think the Bills repot on ESPN was a good report and it was accurate.

Of course you think its accurate your a fin fan, you hate the bills. As much as you bash Bills fans for not being objective your at the very least just as bad.

At any rate to some degree you are right, I dont doubt one bit losing the players we did over the course of a single offseason will hurt. Personally I think signing Walker was a mistake but I guess time will tell on that one.

Dockery I admit we over paid for, but eh....everyone overpaid. He makes our team better.

Willis is the only FA we lost that I was happy to see go, apart from his attitude, general football ineptitude, and apparent fondness for knocking women up he added nothing to this team except 2 games a year where he ran all over the jets. 990 yards? Please. Ill take 2 first day picks anyday for that scrub.

Yes its hurts, and yes that leadership void may be a problem. Our D was ranked what 28th? WTF is going to happen? we get worse? lol.

[Night Train]

It's rather astounding how ESPN has taken a negative stance against the Bills, ever since the firing of TD. I know TD had many friends at ESPN but it's almost become a mob mentality at Bristol.

Criticism is justified when presented correctly but just dropping known names ( Fletcher, Spikes, McGahee ) as key losses without explaining their limited impact last season is either not knowing the Bills or pushing an agenda. Either way, their credibility is gone with me.

The NFL Network is very balanced in their view of the Bills and have tried to see our roster as one that needed to improve. They liked our OL signings, understood the Spikes,Fletcher moves and are giving us a chance.

One Draft day,why would any Bills fan who can get the NFL Network watch the ESPN coverage ? The NFL Network all the way.

[justasportsfan]

People concern themselves way too much with what the media says. WAY TOO MUCH!!
I agree. These are the same IDIOTS who picked the fins to go to the sb last year and the jets to finish at the bottom of the league.

"saban is building something special down is So. Fla" :coocoo:

I acutally like it when they diss the bills. That would make us underdogs and make them even look more the ******s. Seriously guys, just watch NFLN. They are also a little bit off at times but at least they are better than ESPN. Even Pacman jones has already had more air time than the entire bills org itself.

[Mr. Miyagi]

[LEFT]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

You know this article aside these guys have become more credible by the minute, I love the way they call out ESPN's Len P and other writers for plagerism and thier horrible writing.


I agree. This offseason I've been reading their rumor mill stuff a lot more than ever before. They've routinely be the ones breaking the news before anyone else. The site is getting very good and credible.

[SABURZFAN]

we definitely have some holes to fill on the defensive side of the ball but we're not in any danger of the #1 overall draft pick for 08.mort,woodson,and kiper have their opinions and we have ours.

[B-DON]

Someone should pay attention to mayocks and kipers draft predictions this year and figure out how bad kiper really blows.

[jamze132]

Melvin Kiper is a freakin' tool. He is an embarassment to ESPN, but then agian, they do a good job of that without the cockbag.

[thecoordinator]

Do you notice how every player wasn't a loss?? Every player that's gone was the problem? Every year it's the same with Bill fans, whomever leaves was the problem.

amen, brother. whether it's a coach or player, it's the same song and dance from buffalo fans every offseason. the subtractions were bums and the additions are studs.

[justasportsfan]

A little two faced if you ask me.


you'd be the last person on earth that we'd ever ask and the last finfan your fellow finfans here would ever ask.

[realdealryan]

Who cares?

ESPN.com from 2006:

"Chris Mortensen of ESPN.com forecast a Super Bowl of Dallas over Cincinnati; neither won a playoff game. Mort predicted New Orleans would be the league's worst team at 2-14; the Saints reached the NFC championship. "The Bengals won't just tear it up offensively, their defense will play at a higher level," Mortensen wrote; Cincinnati finished 30th on defense."

"Six of the top 10 teams in last June's ESPN.com's 2006 power rankings (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/powerranking?season=2006&week=0) failed to make the playoffs. Last July, "SportsCenter" had football pundits Mike Golic, Sean Salisbury and Mark Schlereth spend a week producing an elaborate complete-season forecast. Their predicted Super Bowl winner? The Carolina Panthers, who failed to make the playoffs. They forecast Indianapolis would lose in the first round of the playoffs, while the Redskins, whose actual finish was 5-11, would be the league's third-best team. Four of the group's predicted postseason entrants (Atlanta, Carolina, Pittsburgh and Washington) failed to achieve a winning record."

and the kicker

"Pete Prisco wrote that acquiring Culpepper made Miami "a legitimate Super Bowl threat."

it's APRIL!!!

[Devin]

Nice!

[DynaPaul]

Profootballtalk rocks! I know a lot of people here still wrongly associate them as some kind of National Enquirer rag but if they'd take another look at the site and read it with an open mind they'd be surprised.

[feelthepain]

Of course you think its accurate your a fin fan, you hate the bills. As much as you bash Bills fans for not being objective your at the very least just as bad.

Oh please stop whining, I give the Bills far more credit then the Bill fans give the fins. The Players that left were good players and you never heard me trash any of them before or after. I happen to think the Dolphins are better then the Bills and 90% of what I read from un-bias reports would agree. Hell this thread is proof that not many in the football world see the Bills as only Bill fans do.

Say whatever you wish about Willis but your speaking more out of bitterness then anything else. Sure he wasn't perfect, but what football player is? Bill fans love to talk S*** about Ricky Williams, but most Dolphin fans want him back because we know even with his issues he's a rare talent and sometimes us as fans just have to deal with the pro Athelete and all their issues.

You Bill fans should consider yourselves lucky, you haven't had nearly the trouble as many other teams. You get one questionable egg and you whine incessantly about it. Get over it, you're not payin his salary and you got way more then 2 games out of the guy. Once again though you treat his 1000 yard season last year as if Willis is the only one on the field that didn't do much on offense, even though a 1000 yards behind that line is quite impressive. You still blame him knowing how bad your Oline was, that's
pitiful.

[Michael82]

Profootballtalk rocks! I know a lot of people here still wrongly associate them as some kind of National Enquirer rag but if they'd take another look at the site and read it with an open mind they'd be surprised.
They used to be a rag, but I gotta admit that I've been very impressed during this offseason. Mike Florio has gotten much better this year. They have broken quite a few stories and have gotten credible.

[Statman]

People concern themselves way too much with what the media says. WAY TOO MUCH!!
Both ways.

[Bling]

I'll be honest, I saw that and I was a little surprised at the negativity. I've seen I think Carolina, Chicago, New York and maybe one of two others. I don't remember any negativity like that. They said Losman is a franchise QB, and Losman to Evans is a lethal tandem. Then they said they only improved their line, and they won't spend anymore money so therefore don't be surprised with a first overall pick next year. I expect the Bills to do worse than they did this year, but nothing worse than about 7. This guys were ripping you. I think letting McGahee and Clements go will hurt, but the addition of Dockery and trading Spikes were great moves. I expect your offense to flow better, but to have a ****ty Defense.

[Devin]

I'll be honest, I saw that and I was a little surprised at the negativity. I've seen I think Carolina, Chicago, New York and maybe one of two others. I don't remember any negativity like that. They said Losman is a franchise QB, and Losman to Evans is a lethal tandem. Then they said they only improved their line, and they won't spend anymore money so therefore don't be surprised with a first overall pick next year. I expect the Bills to do worse than they did this year, but nothing worse than about 7. This guys were ripping you. I think letting McGahee and Clements go will hurt, but the addition of Dockery and trading Spikes were great moves. I expect your offense to flow better, but to have a ****ty Defense.

Not bad. At least you are somewhat objective.

Honestly I dont know what to expect. I didnt mind dumping Mcgaymee or letting clements go fletch and TKO sucked just because I was big fans of both.

I like what marv is doing, bringing in youth and building through the draft I do at times believe he went a bit overkill and I absolutley hated the Walker signing and Kelsay getting what he did. But I guess when in rome...

I suspect 7-8 wins is probably about right and what I would guess unless Marv pulls off the mother of all drafts. I think hes going to need a solid draft to get to that 7-8 win mark anyway. Which while possible in such a deep year is unlikely imo.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I don't care what media outlets say about anything, but all of this aside, is it just me or is anyone else just completely sick of ESPN? I very rarely turn them on anymore. The only thing I really watch is college football and ESPN classic. We lost ESPN U last year which was another channel I watched. I don't know, they have just become very stale to me and they focus so much on hoops and I am just not a basketball fan.

[Jan Reimers]

I simply don't watch ESPN, except to quickly catch an occasional score or some sports news. Their anchors on Sports Center are sophmoric idiots who worship LeBron James and a few others to the point of making me sick, and their anti-Bills bias goes beyond anything I've ever seen in legitimate broadcast journalism.

The best way to show your unhappiness is to tune them out.

[HHURRICANE]

You didn't lose 4 backups you lost 4 starters. Also don't use the "well we weren't very good with them" excuse, do you honestly think your backups are the ones that played well and your starters were the problem?? I think the Bills repot on ESPN was a good report and it was accurate.

I totally agree that when you lose players it hurts. However, as you know, getting the right players is what counts. Miami has certainly been trying to unload players from the Saban era. We are doing the same.

Just to make sure you know what we lost:

1) Clements, the best player we lost in FA. On paper we are weaker at the CB position. We drafted Yobouty as Nate's replacement but he has some big shoes to fill. So you are right here.

2) Spikes, was a great player. However, he was injured in 2005 and non-existant in 2006. Sadly, this is the player that's departure will have absolutely no impact. Matter-of-fact, Darwin Walker is an upgrade because he is a reliable starter who will give us some depth. So you are wrong here.

3) Fletcher, had a ton of tackles. He was a fiery player that played at a high level. Unfortunately, his highest level still had him getting dragged and run over a ton and contributed to a horrible run D. Too early to call but if the draft is good to us than we should be improved here. However, right now, it's a loss. So you are right again.

4) McGahee, the biggest disappointment. I have struggled here but this is clearly a case of better by subtraction. Being a Miami fan or U fan it's hard not to think McGahee isn't that good but he's not. He's not a very smart player. He's not a team player. I can think of 2 games where he, on his own, blew the game for us. Even if the Bills replace him in the second round we will be ahead here. You won't understand thi not watching the games but with an improved line I'll bet you any money that we can get a 990 yards from any back we make as the starter. You are wrong here.

[mchurchfie]

amen, brother. whether it's a coach or player, it's the same song and dance from buffalo fans every offseason. the subtractions were bums and the additions are studs.
BTW, how did Mularkey work out for you guys last year.:roflmao:
:lolpoint:fish
:monkeyp:fish

[feelthepain]

1) Clements, the best player we lost in FA. On paper we are weaker at the CB position. We drafted Yobouty as Nate's replacement but he has some big shoes to fill. So you are right here.

Your young talent could step up, but it's uncertain what will happen. They played well as rookies. Clements was a loss and I'm glad he's out of the division.


2) Spikes, was a great player. However, he was injured in 2005 and non-existant in 2006. Sadly, this is the player that's departure will have absolutely no impact. Matter-of-fact, Darwin Walker is an upgrade because he is a reliable starter who will give us some depth. So you are wrong here.


You take way too much away from Spikes here, he had 47 tkls in just 12 games, that's impressive for an OLB, especially coming off a major injury. Spikes will be much healthier in 07, he may not be what he once was, but neither is Zach Thomas, what you can't replce is their attitude and fire. Both Zach Thomas and TKO have the same firery spirit. Spikes injury is usualy a two year injury, he's near that now.

He is also going to a good Defense one that loves to blitz Spikes could be a probowler this year. Bill fans seem to think that the players that left will in the end be the best thing for the Bills, I on the other hand think thye Bills got rid of the wrong players. The needed to find better supporting players to improve their D. The Bills also needed to find a big fat boy in the middle of the Dline to help shut down the run, small fast Dlinemen simply can't hold up against the run. This is why you LB's weren't able to make plays they were trying to do things while sheding Olinemen.


3) Fletcher, had a ton of tackles. He was a fiery player that played at a high level. Unfortunately, his highest level still had him getting dragged and run over a ton and contributed to a horrible run D. Too early to call but if the draft is good to us than we should be improved here. However, right now, it's a loss. So you are right again


This was a tie as far as biggest losses to the Bills this year IMO. It is hard to replace the QB of the Defense. Like I said above, fix the Dline and your LB's would have been fine. The Bills still haven't fixed the Dline and now you have little experience at the LB positions.


4) McGahee, the biggest disappointment. I have struggled here but this is clearly a case of better by subtraction. Being a Miami fan or U fan it's hard not to think McGahee isn't that good but he's not. He's not a very smart player. He's not a team player. I can think of 2 games where he, on his own, blew the game for us. Even if the Bills replace him in the second round we will be ahead here. You won't understand thi not watching the games but with an improved line I'll bet you any money that we can get a 990 yards from any back we make as the starter. You are wrong here.

Why do Bill fans never place the blame on the Oline?? Look at teams like KC and Denver they are fantastic running teams, why?? Why is it no matter who they draft they are 1000 yard backs?? Bercause they always have superior lines. WM may not have been a superstar in Buffalo, but his talent is there. He needs to be someplace that will use him the way he needs to be used, is that Baltimore? I don't know, but given all the talent in Baltimore I'd say Willis will have far more success in Baltimore. Bill fans do the same thing every time players or coaches leave...awww they suck, our failures are all their fault. Then the Bills suck again and players and coaches leave and it's again the same thing, the only ones that suck are the ones that leave, it's a disturbing trend.

[TacklingDummy]

I simply don't watch ESPN, except to quickly catch an occasional score or some sports news. Their anchors on Sports Center are sophmoric idiots who worship LeBron James and a few others to the point of making me sick, and and their anti-Bills bias goes beyond anything I've ever seen in legitimate broadcast journalism.



How do you know that if you don't watch? :snicker:

[Stewie]

I think it's funny that the same people who bash PFT have to cover their asses by saying something like "it's getting more legitimate" or "its better now than it used to be" ...

The site hasn't changed, there's just more updates. Welcome to the 21st century.

[mchurchfie]

You Bill fans should consider yourselves lucky, you haven't had nearly the trouble as many other teams. You get one questionable egg and you whine incessantly about it.
That's right, that's because we don't tolerate that bull**** here. This team doesn't sellout to character issues over possible potential performance. If you took all of the players in Miami and Cinncy that have accumulated a rapsheet over the last ten years and put them together you would have enough material for two seasons of "America's Most Wanted." I'm sure Willis would have fit in real well with Miami too. They could have included him in the latest edition of the the most popular boardgame there, "Who's Your Daddy?":hump:

[Gunzlingr]

They have been lucky this year. They just make wild guesses most of the time, and any other year they are wrong more often than not.

[Stewie]

wild guesses? either that or people don't know how to read... because when they say something is a rumor they use the crazy word "rumor" and when it's a fact, they post a link.... so freaking crazy those guys

[feelthepain]

That's right, that's because we don't tolerate that bull**** here.

Yeah, like you control that!!

[Mr. Miyagi]

Yeah, like you control that!!
Why are you even on a Bills board anyway? You do nothing but contribute negatively to the site. Are you still banned from FinHeaven?

[bflojohn]

We actually DO control that feelthepain! In the early to mid 80's, Bills fans voiced their concerns to Ralph Wilson by NOT SHOWING UP!! I remember like it was yesterday when media outlets across the country showed TWO Bills fans in the endzone seats doing their own TWO-MAN wave!! I also seem to remember the stadium being ONLY 1/4 full on most Sundays, so YES, we do control the situation!

[Bling]

Why are you even on a Bills board anyway? You do nothing but contribute negatively to the site. Are you still banned from FinHeaven?

He's over at Phinzmania now. :up:

[feelthepain]

Why are you even on a Bills board anyway? You do nothing but contribute negatively to the site. Are you still banned from FinHeaven?

Cause it's a football site. And you only read what you want to read. You really need a hanky for all the whining you do.

[feelthepain]

We actually DO control that feelthepain! In the early to mid 80's, Bills fans voiced their concerns to Ralph Wilson by NOT SHOWING UP!! I remember like it was yesterday when media outlets across the country showed TWO Bills fans in the endzone seats doing their own TWO-MAN wave!! I also seem to remember the stadium being ONLY 1/4 full on most Sundays, so YES, we do control the situation!

No more or less then any other team fans!

[Jan Reimers]

How do you know that if you don't watch? :snicker:
Perhaps you don't know the meaning of the word "except." From the quality of your posts, I would think that is entirely possible.

[Michael82]

We actually DO control that feelthepain! In the early to mid 80's, Bills fans voiced their concerns to Ralph Wilson by NOT SHOWING UP!! I remember like it was yesterday when media outlets across the country showed TWO Bills fans in the endzone seats doing their own TWO-MAN wave!! I also seem to remember the stadium being ONLY 1/4 full on most Sundays, so YES, we do control the situation!
If that happens now, people are ****ing dumbasses and you could say GOOD BYE to the Buffalo Bills..... :ill: :( :mad:

[Jan Reimers]

If that happens now, people are ****ing dumbasses and you could say GOOD BYE to the Buffalo Bills..... :ill: :( :mad:
Yeah, all of you fairweather Bills' fans, show your displeasure by not showing up, and therefore hastening the Bills' exit. That really helps.

Good God everyone, support your team, even when they're down! Isn't that truly the definition of a fan? Things will get better on the field. But it won't mean much if the team is in L.A.

[Michael82]

Yeah, all of you fairweather Bills' fans, show your displeasure by not showing up, and therefore hastening the Bills' exit. That really helps.

Good God everyone, support your team, even when they're down! Isn't that truly the definition of a fan? Things will get better on the field. But it won't mean much if the team is in L.A.
:hi5:

[Night Train]

I like Outside The Lines with Bob Ley. That's a great show.

He's an old pro and 20 times smarter than anyone else at Bristol. They don't deserve him.

[ShadowHawk7]

The worst part about this is that since those a-holes predicted we'd go Willis then Pittmann, that's exactly what we WON'T do, and that's unfortunate because I think that'd be a great start to the draft.

[TacklingDummy]

Good God everyone, support your team, even when they're down! Isn't that truly the definition of a fan? Things will get better on the field. But it won't mean much if the team is in L.A.

Can't blame fans for not buying tickets to go see the game when the product on the field has sucked for about the past 7 or so years.

If you bought the same exact car every year and the car was a piece of crap, would you keep buying the same car or would you wait until that car was produced better?

[TacklingDummy]

Perhaps you don't know the meaning of the word "except." From the quality of your posts, I would think that is entirely possible.

You said you don't watch ESPN "except" to quickly catch an occasional score or some sports news.

I don't see how you can come to the conclusion that ESPN...

"and their anti-Bills bias goes beyond anything I've ever seen in legitimate broadcast journalism."

..by quickly catching an occasional score.