Simple Question

[Mudflap1]

If our guys deem him the best fit for our defense, why is he not a good player to pick up? I mean, if 2-3 years down the line Posluszny is average, but Willis, Beason, and Timmons are all way better, I can see the obvious criticism then, but what if it's the reverse? What if Pos is the real deal? The draft is a crap shoot, maybe our guys see something in him that separates him from the pack. I think they all have more information and are a little bit more experienced than we are.

Jon

[casdhf]

White guys can play in the cover 2, too!

[Photo Guy WNY]

http://menofthescarletandgray.com/wp-content/uploads/katz_SI.JPG

[Philagape]

Because we here at the BZ are better experts than NFL scouts, coaches and general managers. We know better.

[OpIv37]

if you pick a guy at 12 who should be a 20, he's still a 20 and now you're paying for a 12.

More importantly, the Bills need an LB who can have an impact from Day One because Spikes and Fletcher are gone. Pos is NOT that guy.

Answer me this: Why is it that we're supposed to ignore and distrust all the talking heads in the media, and all the scouts and GM's from other teams and how they rank players, but trust in the Bills' FO and scouting department? Why are the Bills the ONLY ones who can rate players appropriately?

[The Answer]

If our guys deem him the best fit for our defense, why is he not a good player to pick up? I mean, if 2-3 years down the line Posluszny is average, but Willis, Beason, and Timmons are all way better, I can see the obvious criticism then, but what if it's the reverse? What if Pos is the real deal? The draft is a crap shoot, maybe our guys see something in him that separates him from the pack. I think they all have more information and are a little bit more experienced than we are.

Jon

He's not a early/mid 1st round prospect - and this front office demonstrated last year twice in the 1st round that they will take a player where they shouldn't.

~The Answer

[don137]

If a player produces on the field I don't care where he is picked. Some people do.

Think so many hate Pz is just another example how a few people on this board control each thread and make people think it is the majority.

[patmoran2006]

If a player produces on the field I don't care where he is picked. Some people do.

Think so many hate Pz is just another example how a few people on this board control each thread and make people think it is the majority.
I think you're wrong there, although I do agree with the principle of what you are saying and I do understand your point. Hopefully this comes across correctly..

Let's use Marshawn Lynch, just as the example.. Let's say he turns out to be a STUD, IM talking solid Pro Bowler in 3 years...

That draft pick we used (12th) turns out to be a steal, not a reach.

But no matter what happens, my point is when a player is projected to go lower for sure than where you picked him; you can trade down, STILL get that player and get better value for that pick... GB is the only team between 13-15 that would consider drafting a RB first. Why not move down 2 spots, pick up an extra draft pick (like maybe a 3rd) and you still end up with the guy you wanted.

I don't know I can make this clear enough from my viewpoint, I do NOT hate Pos.. What I HATE is the thought of using our draft choice at #12-- to me it's horrid value.

[Elminster]

If our guys deem him the best fit for our defense, why is he not a good player to pick up? I mean, if 2-3 years down the line Posluszny is average, but Willis, Beason, and Timmons are all way better, I can see the obvious criticism then, but what if it's the reverse? What if Pos is the real deal? The draft is a crap shoot, maybe our guys see something in him that separates him from the pack. I think they all have more information and are a little bit more experienced than we are.

Jon
I agree. Time is the only judge that matters, in the end. Tom Brady went in the 6th-round and two Mike Williamses went in the top-5. Time has shown the former to be the steal of the decade and the latter examples to have been huge mistakes.

[Ed]

I think you're wrong there, although I do agree with the principle of what you are saying and I do understand your point. Hopefully this comes across correctly..

Let's use Marshawn Lynch, just as the example.. Let's say he turns out to be a STUD, IM talking solid Pro Bowler in 3 years...

That draft pick we used (12th) turns out to be a steal, not a reach.

But no matter what happens, my point is when a player is projected to go lower for sure than where you picked him; you can trade down, STILL get that player and get better value for that pick... GB is the only team between 13-15 that would consider drafting a RB first. Why not move down 2 spots, pick up an extra draft pick (like maybe a 3rd) and you still end up with the guy you wanted.

I don't know I can make this clear enough from my viewpoint, I do NOT hate Pos.. What I HATE is the thought of using our draft choice at #12-- to me it's horrid value.
Trading down is not always an option though. In your scenario with Lynch, what if Carolina or Pitt have absolutely no reason to give up a pick just to move up a couple spots? If trading down would be the best option and you can pull it off great. If no one else is willing to trade though, you can't fault the Bills for that.

All they can do is pick their highest rated player.

[patmoran2006]

Trading down is not always an option though. In your scenario with Lynch, what if Carolina or Pitt have absolutely no reason to give up a pick just to move up a couple spots? If trading down would be the best option and you can pull it off great. If no one else is willing to trade though, you can't fault the Bills for that.

All they can do is pick their highest rated player.
Agreed, and just because YOU dont want to trade down doesnt mean another team is willing to trade up Good point.

Just dont see this guy being ranked in the Top 12 on any draft boards. that's just my take on it. And although obviously none of us can see any actually draft boards, I really think Timmons or Beason especially would be better in a fly to the ball kind of defense.

[Ed]

Agreed, and just because YOU dont want to trade down doesnt mean another team is willing to trade up Good point.

Just dont see this guy being ranked in the Top 12 on any draft boards. that's just my take on it. And although obviously none of us can see any actually draft boards, I really think Timmons or Beason especially would be better in a fly to the ball kind of defense.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want Poz at #12 just as much as the next guy, I just think the idea of trading up or down gets thrown around too easily. When it comes to the draft, I'm sure there are a lot of phone calls and trade proposals made that we just don't know about.

So I don't have a problem with people critisizing a pick if they feel there was a much better player available or someone else filled a bigger need, that's their opinion and their right. But it's hard to blame a team for not trading down or up when chances are they might have really tried.

[kernowboy]

I think the only comparison that can be made between Pos and Katzmeyer is that both are white.

I think Posluzny brings two things that many people over look. He is a flexible enough guy to play inside and outside, has experience at both positions in a strong college, and gives the team flexibility in preseason to determine how to arrange the LBs

He brings leadership qualities even as a Rookie which are currently lacking. Yes we have experienced players but none stand out as a captain ... Posluzny immediately brings those qualities that Beason, Timmons and maybe even Willis don't have.

[kgun12]

To answer your question, the only thing I can say, he isn't "good value" at 12. Which I say who knows what "good valu" is. We all thought Whitner wasn't "good value" last year where we got him, but thank god we did!
Until they make a huge mistake I will be happy with what we do with our pick!

[Philagape]

You don't not select someone because you couldn't trade down for him.

[cordog]

I would love for the Bills to trade down and get him. I definetly wouldnt be happy taking him at 12, but, if Willis is off the board, I wouldnt be suprised. I think Pittsburgh may take him at 15.

[mikemac2001]

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>http://img.search.com/thumb/4/41/Fey-BUST.jpg/250px-Fey-BUST.jpg

PSU Draft Picks Since 2000

2000


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1

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1

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Courtney Brown

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DE

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Cleveland

</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2000</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=left>LaVar Arrington</TD><TD align=left>OLB</TD><TD align=left>Washington</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2000</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>91</TD><TD align=left>David Macklin</TD><TD align=left>CB</TD><TD align=left>Indianapolis</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2000</TD><TD align=right>4</TD><TD align=right>105</TD><TD align=left>Brandon Short</TD><TD align=left>OLB</TD><TD align=left>N.Y. Giants</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2001</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>71</TD><TD align=left>Bhawoh Jue</TD><TD align=left>FS</TD><TD align=left>Green Bay</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2001</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>79</TD><TD align=left>Kareem McKenzie</TD><TD align=left>T</TD><TD align=left>N.Y. Jets</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2001</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>94</TD><TD align=left>James Boyd</TD><TD align=left>SS</TD><TD align=left>Jacksonville</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2001</TD><TD align=right>5</TD><TD align=right>147</TD><TD align=left>Tony Stewart</TD><TD align=left>TE</TD><TD align=left>Philadelphia</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2002</TD><TD align=right>4</TD><TD align=right>107</TD><TD align=left>Omar Easy</TD><TD align=left>FB</TD><TD align=left>Kansas City</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2002</TD><TD align=right>6</TD><TD align=right>196</TD><TD align=left>John Gilmore</TD><TD align=left>TE</TD><TD align=left>New Orleans</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2003</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>12</TD><TD align=left>Jimmy Kennedy</TD><TD align=left>NT</TD><TD align=left>St. Louis</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2003</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>14</TD><TD align=left>Michael Haynes</TD><TD align=left>DE</TD><TD align=left>Chicago</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2003</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>17</TD><TD align=left>Bryant Johnson</TD><TD align=left>WR</TD><TD align=left>Arizona</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2003</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>27</TD><TD align=left>Larry Johnson</TD><TD align=left>RB</TD><TD align=left>Kansas City</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2003</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>55</TD><TD align=left>Bryan Scott</TD><TD align=left>FS</TD><TD align=left>Atlanta</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2003</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>57</TD><TD align=left>Anthony Adams</TD><TD align=left>NT</TD><TD align=left>San Francisco</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2004</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>92</TD><TD align=left>Rich Gardner</TD><TD align=left>CB</TD><TD align=left>Tennessee</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2004</TD><TD align=right>6</TD><TD align=right>194</TD><TD align=left>Matt Kranchick</TD><TD align=left>TE</TD><TD align=left>Pittsburgh</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2004</TD><TD align=right>7</TD><TD align=right>229</TD><TD align=left>David Kimball</TD><TD align=left>K</TD><TD align=left>Indianapolis</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2004</TD><TD align=right>7</TD><TD align=right>241</TD><TD align=left>Sean McHugh</TD><TD align=left>TE</TD><TD align=left>Tennessee</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2006</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>20</TD><TD align=left>Tamba Hali</TD><TD align=left>DE</TD><TD align=left>Kansas City</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2006</TD><TD align=right>4</TD><TD align=right>100</TD><TD align=left>Michael Robinson</TD><TD align=left>RB</TD><TD align=left>San Francisco</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2006</TD><TD align=right>4</TD><TD align=right>102</TD><TD align=left>Calvin Lowry</TD><TD align=left>FS</TD><TD align=left>Tennessee</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2006</TD><TD align=right>4</TD><TD align=right>122</TD><TD align=left>Alan Zemaitis</TD><TD align=left>CB</TD><TD align=left>Tampa Bay</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2006</TD><TD align=right>6</TD><TD align=right>200</TD><TD align=left>Tyler Reed</TD><TD align=left>G</TD><TD align=left>Chicago</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=left>2006</TD><TD align=right>7</TD><TD align=right>209</TD><TD align=left>Ethan Kilmer</TD><TD align=left>FS</TD><TD align=left>Cincinnati</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


ya no PSU guys

[don137]

I think you're wrong there, although I do agree with the principle of what you are saying and I do understand your point. Hopefully this comes across correctly..

Let's use Marshawn Lynch, just as the example.. Let's say he turns out to be a STUD, IM talking solid Pro Bowler in 3 years...

That draft pick we used (12th) turns out to be a steal, not a reach.

But no matter what happens, my point is when a player is projected to go lower for sure than where you picked him; you can trade down, STILL get that player and get better value for that pick... GB is the only team between 13-15 that would consider drafting a RB first. Why not move down 2 spots, pick up an extra draft pick (like maybe a 3rd) and you still end up with the guy you wanted.

I don't know I can make this clear enough from my viewpoint, I do NOT hate Pos.. What I HATE is the thought of using our draft choice at #12-- to me it's horrid value.

I am not saying this applys to Poz in this example because I don't know what they are thinking inside OBD but if there is a player that fits the Bills scheme and they are worried he might not be there by trading down AND there is no one similiar to him in the draft then I have no problem taking him earlier than what he is ranked. Whitner would be a good example. The Bills know St. Louis, Carolina and Pittsburgh all are in the market for LBs so they may feel trading down and not risk losing the player they want is not worth it.
If the guy ends up being a pro bowl player I dont care if he was taken 12th even though he was ranked as the 25th best player in the draft (just throwing numbers not saying he is or isn't the 25th ranked player.
I too rather get value and get a great player falling to you but it's what they do on the field that is important and not where they are drafted.

[Mudflap1]

I agree, if it's a lock to trade down a few spots and still get your guy -- do it, but if you can't, then that means that the pick truly isn't "bad value," because there is competition for that player.

At any rate, I don't dislike Posluszny or particularly favor him more than any of the other linebackers available. Several of them seem like they could be very good, and it appears Poz is more of a fit for OLB than Willis, who is more of a natural MLB.

Jon

[YardRat]

Answer me this: Why is it that we're supposed to ignore and distrust all the talking heads in the media, and all the scouts and GM's from other teams and how they rank players, but trust in the Bills' FO and scouting department? Why are the Bills the ONLY ones who can rate players appropriately?

If you're privy to information from other team's scouts and GM's and how they have their boards set up, it would sure be appreciated if you'd share some of it.

Thanks in advance.

[X-Era]

If our guys deem him the best fit for our defense, why is he not a good player to pick up? I mean, if 2-3 years down the line Posluszny is average, but Willis, Beason, and Timmons are all way better, I can see the obvious criticism then, but what if it's the reverse? What if Pos is the real deal? The draft is a crap shoot, maybe our guys see something in him that separates him from the pack. I think they all have more information and are a little bit more experienced than we are.

Jon

Here we are again with what ifs.

The Bills along with the rest of the teams do the best they can to lessen the gamble with due dilligence on scouting players.

If the Bills feel hes worthy of the 12 pick, Im happy with that. But there is little indication that anyone feels hes worthy of a pick that high.

So, I have no hate, and I wont be angry with the pick, but I do feel that other players rank higher at LB, and therefore represent a better chance to realize their potential

[shelby]

To answer Op's question, we are buying what the Bills front office is selling, plain and simple. It doesn't matter how all the experts rate the players....the organization will draft who they choose, and we will continue buying their product because we are Bills fans, plain and simple. We don't have the luxury of choosing who to trust. Everything is speculation until the draft begins, and we're stuck with the choices that are made.

[X-Era]

To answer Op's question, we are buying what the Bills front office is selling, plain and simple. It doesn't matter how all the experts rate the players....the organization will draft who they choose, and we will continue buying their product because we are Bills fans, plain and simple. We don't have the luxury of choosing who to trust. Everything is speculation until the draft begins, and we're stuck with the choices that are made.

And the truth is very few DONT get excited too see the first round pick or any pick play there first games because they didnt get THEY wanted them to on draft day.

The pissed off-ness ends a few weeks after the draft and we all move on.

I said last year the same thing I will say this year. I will honestly be happy with whomever we pick.

I wish I was a Scout, but Im not. And the guys who are are damn good IMO, I trust em.

Go Buffalo!!!!

[OpIv37]

If you're privy to information from other team's scouts and GM's and how they have their boards set up, it would sure be appreciated if you'd share some of it.

Thanks in advance.

You know all those sports media people who we're supposed to ignore when they call Whitner a "reach" or have us picking Leon Hall? Well they DO have that information.

So once again, I pose the question: Why is it that our GM/FO should be trusted, but everyone else's draft evaluations should be ignored/disregarded?

[YardRat]

You know all those sports media people who we're supposed to ignore when they call Whitner a "reach" or have us picking Leon Hall? Well they DO have that information.

So once again, I pose the question: Why is it that our GM/FO should be trusted, but everyone else's draft evaluations should be ignored/disregarded?

Well apparently Mike Mayock is the only one the Bills bother talking to, because nobody else had a clue last year.

[Mudflap1]

You know all those sports media people who we're supposed to ignore when they call Whitner a "reach" or have us picking Leon Hall? Well they DO have that information.

So once again, I pose the question: Why is it that our GM/FO should be trusted, but everyone else's draft evaluations should be ignored/disregarded?

Honestly? Because we have no other choice. Marv Levy is an icon in this town, a guy that showed he could win before, albeit as the head coach. While Dick Jauron has had ups and downs as a head coach (mostly downs), I think he did a pretty good coaching job last year, and maybe he needs a GM (Marv) whom he can trust of which they can work on the same page together. We need to give these guys a chance. Maybe they'll prove everybody wrong, but we won't know for at least another year or two. Remember, if we look back at history, it took Marv a couple years to turn the team around completely. This is a turnaround. The last two didn't work, but it wasn't the fault of Levy or Jauron. Let's see what happens. In the meantime, I'm willing to take their word for it. I don't really have a choice.

Jon

[Marvelous]

I think you're wrong there, although I do agree with the principle of what you are saying and I do understand your point. Hopefully this comes across correctly..

Let's use Marshawn Lynch, just as the example.. Let's say he turns out to be a STUD, IM talking solid Pro Bowler in 3 years...

That draft pick we used (12th) turns out to be a steal, not a reach.

But no matter what happens, my point is when a player is projected to go lower for sure than where you picked him; you can trade down, STILL get that player and get better value for that pick... GB is the only team between 13-15 that would consider drafting a RB first. Why not move down 2 spots, pick up an extra draft pick (like maybe a 3rd) and you still end up with the guy you wanted.

I don't know I can make this clear enough from my viewpoint, I do NOT hate Pos.. What I HATE is the thought of using our draft choice at #12-- to me it's horrid value.

I Agree that trading down & getting im would rock< but wat if trading down is not vaille? Why should we abandonndraftig the kidbecause of two spot? IMO if Marv thinks he can fit our cover2 then 2 spot reach IMO is minmal...Also, i think tradig down is more coveted then trading up..

[TigerJ]

I'm not anti Posluszny. I'm among those who think he's a reach at #12 compared with Patrick Willis. I wouldn't mind if Buffalo traded down to pick Posluszny. If the Bills pick him at #12 I will have some concerns. If he plays like a reach, it becomes a little harder for the Bills to get better. If a team were to continually reach for players in the draft, it would not get better period. It's better to get the best value you can at every position in the draft, but it's especially important in the first round.

[HHURRICANE]

if you pick a guy at 12 who should be a 20, he's still a 20 and now you're paying for a 12.

More importantly, the Bills need an LB who can have an impact from Day One because Spikes and Fletcher are gone. Pos is NOT that guy.

Answer me this: Why is it that we're supposed to ignore and distrust all the talking heads in the media, and all the scouts and GM's from other teams and how they rank players, but trust in the Bills' FO and scouting department? Why are the Bills the ONLY ones who can rate players appropriately?

Because at #8 Whitner was the best player ever. We would have blow the draft had we taken Ernie Sims, Ngata, or Bunkley with our 8th pick.