The Bills Have Chosen........ Poorly

[gr8slayer]

http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2007/04/the_bills_have_chosen_poorly.html


Why in the names of Thurman Thomas and Nate Odomes are the Buffalo Bills going into this draft needing a running back and cornerback? Because Tom Donahoe and Marv Levy chose poorly.


Last offseason, Levy essentially negotiated against himself in trying to bring back receiver Peerless Price. No other team was that interested in the former Bill, who had been a bust in Atlanta, yet Levy gave him a contract worth $10 million over four years.


Then Levy overpaid in the draft as well, reaching for safety Donte Whitner (eighth overall) and trading back into the first round to draft defensive tackle John McCargo with the 26th pick. The Bills got terrible value for both players, whom the team could have had much later.


Levy began this offseason by similarly overvaluing free agents. He retained Chris Kelsay -- a good, but certainly not great, defensive end -- with a deal worth almost $6 million per year and then chose to let some of the team's best defenders go and instead overpay two average linemen.


Knowing Levy, though, the Bills might just as easily decide to draft one of the receivers rated at the bottom of the first round. After all, that would fit right in with all of the other mistakes the team has made this decade.

Ouch

[Neggie Nancy]

Its pretty much all true though, like it or not.

[gr8slayer]

Its pretty much all true though, like it or not.
To a point it's true but I still don't think you can say "Whitner and McCargo are poor choices." You never know with any rookie for at least three years.

[Devin]

Ouch.

[Novacane]

He comes off as an arrogant know it all but I pretty much agree with everything except not resigning Clements

[gr8slayer]

He comes off as an arrogant know it all but I pretty much agree with everything except not resigning Clements
It's hard not to, but every move a team makes is going to come under scrutiny by someone.

[Night Train]

I'll never understand Price and Kelsay is outright baffling. RB,LB should easily be replaced next weekend.

[gr8slayer]

I'll never understand Price and Kelsay is outright baffling. RB,LB should easily be replaced next weekend.
You'll never understand the Kelsay thing until you realize that the cap went up ALOT!

There's no way Dockery would have gotten what he got this time last year but because there's so much more money out there................

BTW, Kelsay is a great leader, motivator, and an above average player who can teach. He's our most intense player on the Defensive side of the ball and I love it.

[raphael120]

i like what the one guy commented on that talkback for that article

"the bills dumped off the big time names, not the big time playmakers"

[camelcowboy]

the witner/mccargo point and value is garbage. who cares, ill listen to it maybe in five years right now to premature to tell. I like both players and Whitner has shown he's anything but a reach. This guy posting the bills received bad value just makes him sound likes he's reading last years post draft press clipings.

[realdealryan]

Basically realfootball loves the Bills from everything else I've read. I guess they need to beat the crap out of them every once in a while to avoid being Bills-lovers.

Seriously, though, this is mostly opinion. The only clear bust of the Marv era is overpaying Peerless (while saying it I keep seeing the touchdown against the Vikings and the game-winner in Houston). $10 million for two plays per year? He'll get cut this year or next.

Talk about old stuff- Whitner and McCargo are considered reaches unless they get defensive MVP. Did we forget about the big drop-off after these guys at their respective positions? If one other team needed this position, these guys are gone before we have a chance. And if Youboty is a starter this year, then getting this guy when we did was a steal. And Ellison, Williams, Pennington in later rounds. Part-time starters or rotational guys....don't they outweigh a slight reach?

You've got to remember Marv's philosophy and look at the DE market currently when examining Kelsay's deal. He is a talented character guy in a newly inflated market and Marv wanted to keep him. Not the best guy on our line, but a big part nonetheless. Look for Marv to err towards character rather than all-out talent. "Talent fails without character" or something. You can't critcisize this philosophy with real stats until we are *****ing about how the Bills still suck in 2010. You have go give Marv a little more time to remake this team with Mod and Dickie.


I'm not throwing any stones unless we end up with a bunch of "great people" who couldn't make it in arena football.

[gr8slayer]

Basically realfootball loves the Bills from everything else I've read. I guess they need to beat the crap out of them every once in a while to avoid being Bills-lovers.

Seriously, though, this is mostly opinion. The only clear bust of the Marv era is overpaying Peerless (while saying it I keep seeing the touchdown against the Vikings and the game-winner in Houston). $10 million for two plays per year? He'll get cut this year or next.

Talk about old stuff- Whitner and McCargo are considered reaches unless they get defensive MVP. Did we forget about the big drop-off after these guys at their respective positions? If one other team needed this position, these guys are gone before we have a chance. And if Youboty is a starter this year, then getting this guy when we did was a steal. And Ellison, Williams, Pennington in later rounds. Part-time starters or rotational guys....don't they outweigh a slight reach?

You've got to remember Marv's philosophy and look at the DE market currently when examining Kelsay's deal. He is a talented character guy in a newly inflated market and Marv wanted to keep him. Not the best guy on our line, but a big part nonetheless. Look for Marv to err towards character rather than all-out talent. "Talent fails without character" or something. You can't critcisize this philosophy with real stats until we are *****ing about how the Bills still suck in 2010. You have go give Marv a little more time to remake this team with Mod and Dickie.


I'm not throwing any stones unless we end up with a bunch of "great people" who couldn't make it in arena football.That's not ten million guaranteed.

[camelcowboy]

Whitner was as good if not better then huff, and McCargo in five games accomplished more then bunkley did all your. Who got the better value?

[realdealryan]

That's not ten million guaranteed.

That's what I'm saying. And he won't see the end of the contract either.

[madness]

People seem to forget that the same crap was said when Marv was coach and had upper management help him bring in his type of players. Those questions died pretty quickly.

That's okay, the same fools and their "sheep" will be wrong again when all is said and done.

[gr8slayer]

That's what I'm saying. And he won't see the end of the contract either.
Perhaps but I would pay him 2.5 million a year to make two game winning catches per season.

[Carlton Bailey]

WTF was that? Did 365 hire Chris Mortensen and disguise him as "Chris Cluff"? Jeez. Whitner lived up to expectations last year, and it's too early to judge McCargo.

[realdealryan]

Perhaps but I would pay him 2.5 million a year to make two game winning catches per season.

So basically all of the points of the article are arguable overturnable. Unless Peerless completely sucks from here on out.

And by the way, what the hell was going on that Peerless was a non-factor in the other 14 games. I had higher hopes for him.

[Carlton Bailey]

Peerless exceeded what I thought, believe it or not. I didn't expect 40-plus catches from him. He's an average player, which I'm OK with. You really only need one great receiver, and we have that.

[Don't Panic]

This is pretty much the Realist's Manifesto. I agree with about half of what he said, but the half I don't agree with is pretty ridiculous. Dockerey will prove his worth and Whitner will make even the last of the doubters eat crow. Hard to argue with Price and Kelsay, though.

[Philagape]

BTW, Kelsay is a great leader, motivator, and an above average player who can teach. He's our most intense player on the Defensive side of the ball and I love it.

That's the first time I've heard that

[ddaryl]

Actually I find much of the article to be nothing more then a chance to stir the hornets nest of passionate Bills fans and generate the website hits.

Some of the moves may not seem rosey, but none of them were out of whack as much as this guy is reporting it to be.

Most contracts are back loaded, most vets cut were way over priced, or aging and wouldn't be around when the team is ready to make the SB push. And Marv's 1st draft deserves praise, not scorn regardless of what the author feels.

IMO Marv might be ahead of the curve in many of the things he does, and I say that judging his 1st draft which went against everyones thoughts, and yet still was what looks ot be a rock solid freshman effort (Marv a freshsmen LOL)

I think we deserve some head scratching with the moves we have made, but we also deserve some kudos for not following the expected path, and carving out our niche/style/team. Genius is a product of doing things differently and having great success, Marv is doing things differently, so lets hope is a prelude to a genius consideration.

All of this being said Marv has done one thing no Bills GM has don in 10 years... seriously address the OL.

I also think getting 2 3rds for Mcgahee was a move that needed to happen regardless of outcome. How do you keep a RB who out right refuses to work out in Buffalo in the offseason with teammates and coaches... ya can't under any circumstances. You need team oriented passionate players and Mcgahee was far from one of those.

Spikes ask to be traded, and he wouldn't be our OLB starter in 2 years from now when Marv's rebuild team and core is hitting its stride. Fletcher was a warrior who just was on the wrong side of 30 for such a young team.

I guess I am just not discouraged with what the Bills have done this offseason. I see the philosophy and I have hope that Marv and Co. will build the core that a championship team can be formed around. I'm optomisitc... but I always am.

[OpIv37]

BTW, Kelsay is a great leader, motivator, and an above average player who can teach. He's our most intense player on the Defensive side of the ball and I love it.

wow, that is the most homeristic view on Kelsay I've hever heard. The guy is average at best and we have plenty of guys more intense than him, starting with Hargrove.

[madness]

wow, that is the most homeristic view on Kelsay I've hever heard. The guy is average at best and we have plenty of guys more intense than him, starting with Hargrove.

Jumping up and down on the sidelines does not make a player more intense. Although I couldn't pull up the articles on a whim, I remember distinctly those same traits being applied to Kelsay in the press. They said he's one of the most intense players on the whole team and it shows during practice. His work ethic is a model to his teammates and he's always pushing everybody to be better.

Everyone knows your definition of a homeristic view is any viewpoint that you don't agree with. So please try to give those type of comments a rest.

[OpIv37]

Jumping up and down on the sidelines does not make a player more intense. Although I couldn't pull up the articles on a whim, I remember distinctly those same traits being applied to Kelsay in the press. They said he's one of the most intense players on the whole team and it shows during practice. His work ethic is a model to his teammates and he's always pushing everybody to be better.

Everyone knows your definition of a homeristic view is any viewpoint that you don't agree with. So please try to give those type of comments a rest.

none of what you said makes Kelsay "above average" on the field. A homeristic view is when people defend mediocre players as if they're something special and it happens all the ****ing time around here.

If the Fish or the Pats gave that kind of contract to Kelsay or a player of his caliber, we'd be laughing our asses off. But because he's on the Bills, people here find a way to justify his mediocrity.

[madness]

none of what you said makes Kelsay "above average" on the field. A homeristic view is when people defend mediocre players as if they're something special and it happens all the ****ing time around here.

If the Fish or the Pats gave that kind of contract to Kelsay or a player of his caliber, we'd be laughing our asses off. But because he's on the Bills, people here find a way to justify his mediocrity.



As followers of the NFL see every March, some franchise (Washington, anyone?) foolishly gives boatloads of money to an above-average player who is by no means great. Undoubtedly, Kelsay fits that bill, and he'll probably cash in on a big payday somewhere next month.




Teams able to keep good players out of free agency

The reason is obvious, and somewhat ironic. Players have fought to increase the size of the NFL's salary cap, and it has, jumping from $85.5 million in 2005 to a whopping $109 million this year (an increase of 27.5 percent in two years). But the net effect has been that fewer star players actually get to the market these days, because with the added cap room, teams are wisely locking up their best players with either contract extensions or franchise-player tags.
Colts defensive end Dwight Freeney got franchised. So did Bears linebacker Lance Briggs, Patriots cornerback Asante Samuel, Saints defensive end Charles Grant, Bengals defensive end Justin Smith, Lions defensive tackle Cory Redding and Seahawks kicker Josh Brown. And other highly-attractive potential free agents such as Cowboys center Andre Gurode, Bills defensive end Chris Kelsay, Chargers linebacker Shaun Phillips and Chiefs quarterback Damon Huard last week continued the trend of quality players who received contract extensions before they could test the free-agent waters.


All you have is opinions which are no different then any media outlet. To call someone a homer because they hold a player in higher or lower regard then you is... well, homerish.

[OpIv37]

All you have is opinions which are no different then any media outlet. To call someone a homer because they hold a player in higher or lower regard then you is... well, homerish.




Marv is a former Coach at Cal. I think he'll know what kind of person Lynch really is instead of all this media hype bull****.




I agree it's going to be Brady also. Half the media had him considered as a Pro Bowl snub. :ill:

you know what's homerish? How you disregard the national media's opinion most of the time, but when they call one of our players "quality" or "above average" suddenly their opinion becomes valid . :rolleyes:

[mayotm]

Let's face it. We have posters on this site that are overly optimitic and others who are overly pessimistic. I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[madness]

you know what's homerish? How you disregard the national media's opinion most of the time, but when they call one of our players "quality" or "above average" suddenly their opinion becomes valid . :rolleyes:

Excellent research! Too bad I wasn't using those quotes to support Kelsay but to support that opinions vary from yours.


All you have is opinions which are no different then any media outlet.

Nice spin though! :up:

[OpIv37]

Excellent research! Too bad I wasn't using those quotes to support Kelsay but to support that opinions vary from yours.



Nice spin though! :up:

you were using those quotes to criticize the media because they were saying something anti-Buffalo (or pro-NE, same difference). But when a poster says that Kelsay is "above average", suddenly it's valid because the MEDIA said so? Do you see the pattern yet? When the media is pro-Buffalo, it's a valid opinion - when the media is anti-Buffalo, they're full of ****. That's the definition of a HOMER.

[TigerJ]

There is a lot we don't know about some of those situations. We have been told that Levy really has little or nothing to do with salary negotiation. That's the area of the organization cared for by Jim Overdorf. What we don't know is how much authority Levy actually has. Can he say to Overdorf, "I want Peerless Price. Do whatever it takes."

Or can Overdorf respond and say, "Sorry Marv, Price's agent ijs being totally ridiculous and signing him puts the salary structure out of whack." I'll grant that there seem tp be some problems, but it may actually be a structural issue rather than one individual who is less than fully competent for the job.

[Ron Burgundy]

There is a lot we don't know about some of those situations. We have been told that Levy really has little or nothing to do with salary negotiation. That's the area of the organization cared for by Jim Overdorf. What we don't know is how much authority Levy actually has. Can he say to Overdorf, "I want Peerless Price. Do whatever it takes."

Or can Overdorf respond and say, "Sorry Marv, Price's agent ijs being totally ridiculous and signing him puts the salary structure out of whack." I'll grant that there seem tp be some problems, but it may actually be a structural issue rather than one individual who is less than fully competent for the job.
Levy's in charge, so if the structure is a problem, it's his problem.

As an aside, I can't believe people still read the garbage on realfootball365. Every single Bills writer for that staff is a ****ing hack who puts out worthless fluff pieces. That **** is atrocious and nearly unreadable. It's really a testament to how amazing and popular the NFL is that this kind of "journalism" is even tolerated, much less discussed.

[OpIv37]

Levy's in charge, so if the structure is a problem, it's his problem.

What? NO! Marv is ALWAYS right! Waaah! Waaah! I'm so sick of you negative nancies crying about everything!

[Statman]

You'll never understand the Kelsay thing until you realize that the cap went up ALOT!
How many other teams in the league do you think would have given Kelsay 13M in guaranteed money on that contract?

[gr8slayer]

wow, that is the most homeristic view on Kelsay I've hever heard. The guy is average at best and we have plenty of guys more intense than him, starting with Hargrove.
Homeristic? How do you plan on discrediting my statement?

[gr8slayer]

How many other teams in the league do you think would have given Kelsay 13M in guaranteed money on that contract?
At least five.

[Night Train]

I think Kelsay is OK and hold no negative views towards him. He's just not a special DE that dominates games but is now being paid like one.

It may be a case of the Bills knowing they had multiple other needs and couldn't create another hole by letting Kelsay walk. They knew back then that Spikes,Fletcher,Clements and McGahee were not part of the 2007 plan and needed trades or Draft picks to replace them. Too many needs in the starting lineup already and only so many picks.

I do know Kelsay will make the effort to improve himself and work hard in the off-season program. I'll never question his dedication. It's whether he can raise his game another level. We'll see.

[Jan Reimers]

Marv is in only his second full season of undoing the Donahoe Debacle. I guess Hot Pockets Cluff has seen enough to know that Marv has made mostly poor choices, however, and that the Bills are in shambles.

I prefer to give the whole situation a little more time, but then again, I don't get paid to pass judgment on draft picks that have played less than a full season, or on personnel deficiencies that will be addressed in a draft which won't occur until next weekend.

[HHURRICANE]

To a point it's true but I still don't think you can say "Whitner and McCargo are poor choices." You never know with any rookie for at least three years.

The quote didn't say poor choices, I believe it said "not good value". This is true.

The quotes are all true except for #3 which is half true.

[OpIv37]

Homeristic? How do you plan on discrediting my statement?

5.5 sacks last year, 12.5 sacks in his CAREER, 3 Forced Fumbles in his career.

That breaks down to 1 sack every 5.12 games, 1 forced fumble every 21.3 games.

By contrast, Ryan Denney, who has one more year in the league, only has 16.5 sacks and 4 forced fumbles, and he sat out half his rookie year. That breaks down to 1 sack every 4.36 games and 1 FF every 18 games.

When compared to the rest of the league, Kelsay was tied for 43rd in sacks, and 12 of the players who had MORE sacks played in FEWER games (btw I got all this info from the Stats section on NFL.com).

So, this poses several questions: If Kelsay is "above average," shouldn't Denney be considered "above average" too? Denney actually has better numbers but I don't hear anyone tooting his horn because, well, he's not that good. Average at best (like Kelsay).

If they both have similar numbers, why did we give them both contracts? And why do we need them both? And why did Kelsay get so much more than Denney when the difference in numbers doesn't justify it at all?

Regardless of the over-inflated 2007 FA market, Kelsay got WAY more than he's worth. I think we could have gotten the same production out of Denney (and I'm no Denney fan) and used the cap space somewhere else (LB perhaps? RB?) .

Consider your statement discredited.

[Mr. Pink]

At least five.

Name the 5 teams you think would have given Kelsay 13 mill guaranteed. I'm curious.

[SABURZFAN]

Its pretty much all true though, like it or not.


i agree.

[OpIv37]

Marv is in only his second full season of undoing the Donahoe Debacle. I guess Hot Pockets Cluff has seen enough to know that Marv has made mostly poor choices, however, and that the Bills are in shambles.

I prefer to give the whole situation a little more time, but then again, I don't get paid to pass judgment on draft picks that have played less than a full season, or on personnel deficiencies that will be addressed in a draft which won't occur until next weekend.

if you honestly think this team can fill all it's personnel deficiencies in one draft, you're kidding yourself.

And while the jury's still out on last year's draft, it should be pretty obvious by now that last year's FA class was a heap of ****.

[TigerJ]

Levy's in charge, so if the structure is a problem, it's his problem.

As an aside, I can't believe people still read the garbage on realfootball365. Every single Bills writer for that staff is a ****ing hack who puts out worthless fluff pieces. That **** is atrocious and nearly unreadable. It's really a testament to how amazing and popular the NFL is that this kind of "journalism" is even tolerated, much less discussed.

You know more than I do then. I thought Levy and Overdorf were both vice presidents in the organization. My understanding is that Ralph Wilson set up the structure, though it may have been in part because Levy did not want to be running the show. You can argue that Levy should not have takent the job if he didn't want to be a real GM with all the rights and responsibilities thereof, but you can also argue that the buck should stop with Wilson, who should have known better than to set up a structure where the left hand isn't real sure what the right hand is doing.

[John Doe]

5.5 sacks last year, 12.5 sacks in his CAREER, 3 Forced Fumbles in his career.

That breaks down to 1 sack every 5.12 games, 1 forced fumble every 21.3 games.

By contrast, Ryan Denney, who has one more year in the league, only has 16.5 sacks and 4 forced fumbles, and he sat out half his rookie year. That breaks down to 1 sack every 4.36 games and 1 FF every 18 games.

When compared to the rest of the league, Kelsay was tied for 43rd in sacks, and 12 of the players who had MORE sacks played in FEWER games (btw I got all this info from the Stats section on NFL.com).

So, this poses several questions: If Kelsay is "above average," shouldn't Denney be considered "above average" too? Denney actually has better numbers but I don't hear anyone tooting his horn because, well, he's not that good. Average at best (like Kelsay).

If they both have similar numbers, why did we give them both contracts? And why do we need them both? And why did Kelsay get so much more than Denney when the difference in numbers doesn't justify it at all?

Regardless of the over-inflated 2007 FA market, Kelsay got WAY more than he's worth. I think we could have gotten the same production out of Denney (and I'm no Denney fan) and used the cap space somewhere else (LB perhaps? RB?) .

Consider your statement discredited.

They signed Kesay because Denny and Kesay work best in a rotation. If you combine their stats and their pay, they are a pretty good deal together - one may be somewhat overpaid while the other is somewhat underpaid. They signed thier repspective contracts under very different market conditions. These are guys that you have to keep fresh - one of the concepts behind the Bills version of the "cover 2" (pressure on the QB from the line).

If we did not sign Kelsay, then we would have gone into the season with only 3 veteren defensive ends. We have done that in the past, but it is a dangerous situation to be in if one goes down and it does not give a deep enough rotation in the first place. We now have one of the deepest set of veteren defensive ends in the league and they are very effective as a group. And, we don't have to spend a first day draft pick on this position.

When you try to sign a free agent that you really want, you almost always overpay. Its a fact of life in the NFL. Bring them in, give them your best possible offer right away - take it or leave it, and then hope that they sign. That is the way it works.

[X-Era]

http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2007/04/the_bills_have_chosen_poorly.html







Ouch

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

Yep, that why this team was in playoff contention for most of the second half of the season for the first time in many many years.

We let an underachiever go in Clements who was paid like Tomlinson for no reason.

We TRADED TKO who was damaged goods and couldnt stay healthy for another DT who can at the very least be an upgrade to Tim Anderson

We let Fletcher go because he didnt fit as a run stopper when you have small fast DT's in front of him, and he signed for basically the same money as our new OG Dockery.

And ohh, by the way we signed the largest of the top 3 OG's and one that helped plow the way for Clinton Portis in Dockery.

Thanks, Ill stick with Levy and leave the mindless drivel to the media.

[OpIv37]

They signed Kesay because Denny and Kesay work best in a rotation. If you combine their stats and their pay, they are a pretty good deal together - one may be somewhat overpaid while the other is somewhat underpaid. They signed thier repspective contracts under very different market conditions. These are guys that you have to keep fresh - one of the concepts behind the Bills version of the "cover 2" (pressure on the QB from the line).

If we did not sign Kelsay, then we would have gone into the season with only 3 veteren defensive ends. We have done that in the past, but it is a dangerous situation to be in if one goes down and it does not give a deep enough rotation in the first place. We now have one of the deepest set of veteren defensive ends in the league and they are very effective as a group. And, we don't have to spend a first day draft pick on this position.

When you try to sign a free agent that you really want, you almost always overpay. Its a fact of life in the NFL. Bring them in, give them your best possible offer right away - take it or leave it, and then hope that they sign. That is the way it works.

Even in the over-inflated FA market this year, rotational DE's can be had for a lot less than what Kelsay got. I have a feeling that Kelsay's production and the other holes on the defensive side of the ball are going to make us regret this signing once the games start.

And why is it that playing almost every down didn't hurt Schobel's production? He's the most proven player on this D at the moment and no one is shelling out cash to keep him fresh.

[madness]

you were using those quotes to criticize the media because they were saying something anti-Buffalo (or pro-NE, same difference). But when a poster says that Kelsay is "above average", suddenly it's valid because the MEDIA said so? Do you see the pattern yet? When the media is pro-Buffalo, it's a valid opinion - when the media is anti-Buffalo, they're full of ****. That's the definition of a HOMER.

No, actually his coaches and teammates said so in the article. Let me guess... they're full of crap too, right?

[OpIv37]

No, actually his coaches and teammates said so in the article. Let me guess... they're full of crap too, right?

you can't take anyone at face value when they're talking to the media. No halfway-saavy coach or player is going to publicly chastise a teammate. I don't know why people on this site continue to believe players and coaches give their honest assessments to the media- if they did, team unity would not exist.

[HHURRICANE]

They signed Kesay because Denny and Kesay work best in a rotation. If you combine their stats and their pay, they are a pretty good deal together - one may be somewhat overpaid while the other is somewhat underpaid.

Sorry dude but this argument is BS. A guy that can get 10-12 sacks on his own is way more valuable than 2 guys that, combined, get simlar stats.

Why? Because Kelsay and Denny don't get double teamed, ever. If you had another Schobel you would be able to create enough chaos to let the DT's create havoc in the middle caused by the mismatch.

Kelsay got overpaid because we couldn't afford to have that many players leave. Not a good reason to overpay for a position.

[John Doe]

Sorry dude but this argument is BS. A guy that can get 10-12 sacks on his own is way more valuable than 2 guys that, combined, get simlar stats.

Why? Because Kelsay and Denny don't get double teamed, ever. If you had another Schobel you would be able to create enough chaos to let the DT's create havoc in the middle caused by the mismatch.

Kelsay got overpaid because we couldn't afford to have that many players leave. Not a good reason to overpay for a position.

Sorry bubba but the stats don't lie. The combined 76 tackles, 37 assists, and 11.5 sacks that Denny and Kelsay provided certainly helped Schobel to get his 35 tackles, 16 assists, and 16 sacks.

The combined stats of Denny and Kelsay more than double Schobel's tackles and assists.

[Ron Burgundy]

You didn't pay for two players. You paid for one player.

You can put almost any half-way decent player in a rotation...including a rook with some potential.

Kelsay isn't overpaid because the salary cap rose, but because we gave a middling player far too much money for what he is actually worth.

[BillsFever21]

If this team doesn't take a step foward this year then you can start to consider Marv a failure. I don't want to hear all this 3 or 4 year crap. That's all we have heard for the last 10 years.

In a short amount of time you have seen many teams make a huge transformation with their teams.

Teams like the Saints in one year went from being a laughing stock to being 1 game away from the SB.

Three years ago the Chargers had the first pick in the draft. Now they have one of the most talented teams in the NFL.

The Jets were pathetic and one year later after a new coaching and they are in the playoffs.

The Bears were an awful team 3 years ago. After getting rid of Jauron and bring in Lovie Smith 3 years later they are in the SB.

There are many more teams over the recent future that have done the same thing. If the Bills don't take a step back after getting rid of all their starters and win at least 8+ games then they may look like their heading in the right direction. If by year 3 they are not in the playoffs then Levy's tenure can seem to be a failure.

Now if we go out and win 5 or 6 games this year then you can start hearing the chatters of a bad ran team. I don't wanna hear all this crap about us winning two more games this season with mostly all of Donahoe's players leading the way. Two different times under Williams and Mularkey we came out of nowhere and had an improved year and looked to be on the way up only to crumble the following season.

If we don't win at least 8 games this year or if we bomb out and win 5 games or so then this team will be a failure so far. I don't wanna hear the excuses of a 3-4 year project. Every year we do bad everybody adds another year onto our "project" Other teams have turned it around shortly. If we bomb out this year then it will be a failure.

But hey if we don't win and are a bad team at least we will have the nicest losing team in the NFL with all the "high character" players.