There's no reason to be remotely optimistic

[Mr. Miyagi]

There are absolutely no reasons for a team to be optimistic about the upcoming season after coming off a 5-11 season, with its offense ranking 25th in points nad its defense ranking 18th overall. Heck, it only went 8-8 in the previous season and 9-7 the season before that. The running game was completely non-existent, and its franchise quarterback had no explosive receiving weapons.This team was widely regarded to finish last in the division, with no playoffs in the future.

Who's this team?

The 2001 New England Patriots, who went on to win the next 3 out of 4 SuperBowls.

Before you people get your panties up in a bunch, the point is not that the Bills are the Patriots, but it's NEVER SAY NEVER. Any time you think you're sure, reality always surprises you.

:miyagi:

[Jan Reimers]

That's why you go out on the field and play all 16 games. Who cares what the "experts" say. Like most of us, they're right about 50% of the time.

[jamesiscool]

very well said. im not expecting alot out of this team, although my hopes are high its almost like my expectation s are very low. BUT im always up for a surprise. so here it goes.

just one good season thats all im asking for.

GO BILLS

[OpIv37]

Before you people get your panties up in a bunch, the point is not that the Bills are the Patriots, but it's NEVER SAY NEVER. Any time you think you're sure, reality always surprises you.

:miyagi:


I've been waiting for reality to surpise me for most of a decade. So far, it hasn't happened.

[jamesiscool]

I've been waiting for reality to surpise me for most of a decade. So far, it hasn't happened.

come on op, 7 years isn't a decade! lol

:dance:

[Mr. Miyagi]

I've been waiting for reality to surpise me for most of a decade. So far, it hasn't happened.
It could be worse. You could be a Lions fan. They've been waiting since 1957.

[OpIv37]

come on op, 7 years isn't a decade! lol

:dance:

well to be fair, i did say "most of a decade".

[jamesiscool]

well to be fair, i did say "most of a decade".

ok ok u win.

[Statman]

There are absolutely no reasons for a team to be optimistic about the upcoming season after coming off a 5-11 season, with its offense ranking 25th in points nad its defense ranking 18th overall. Heck, it only went 8-8 in the previous season and 9-7 the season before that. The running game was completely non-existent, and its franchise quarterback had no explosive receiving weapons.This team was widely regarded to finish last in the division, with no playoffs in the future.

Who's this team?

The 2001 New England Patriots, who went on to win the next 3 out of 4 SuperBowls.

Before you people get your panties up in a bunch, the point is not that the Bills are the Patriots, but it's NEVER SAY NEVER. Any time you think you're sure, reality always surprises you.

:miyagi:
Of all the teams that fit, or came close to fitting that criteria over time, how many went on to do what the Patriots did?

Kurt Warner was stocking supermarket shelves too before joining the Rams and going to a Super Bowl. I suppose then by that logic that we should immediately run out and grab every supermarket stocker that ever played football and sign them all to be our backup QBs.

Or let's only draft RBs in round 6 because that's where Terrell Davis was drafted.

LMAO

The logic applied in these forums is entertaining to be sure.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Of all the teams that fit, or came close to fitting that criteria over time, how many went on to do what the Patriots did?

Kurt Warner was stocking supermarket shelves too before joining the Rams and going to a Super Bowl. I suppose then by that logic that we should immediately run out and grab every supermarket stocker that ever played football and sign them all to be our backup QBs.

Or let's only draft RBs in round 6 because that's where Terrell Davis was drafted.

LMAO

The logic applied in these forums is entertaining to be sure.
I'm sorry you didn't read my post at all.

The point of this thread is NEVER SAY NEVER, not specifically supermarket stock boys and round 6 running backs. You can hold on tight to the negative attitudes with your life all you want, but some of us choose to keep our minds open and our hopes up, because to us life is better hopeful than dreadful.

If you must feel that way, this thread is not for you. Bye.

[mchurchfie]

the point is not that the Bills are the Patriots

:miyagi:
Therein being the problem.:ill:

[OpIv37]

but some of us choose to keep our minds open and our hopes up, because to us life is better hopeful than dreadful.

If you must feel that way, this thread is not for you. Bye.


if you keep your hopes up but you're constantly disappointed becasue the things you hope for never actually happen, that sounds pretty dreadful to me.

[Philagape]

There are absolutely no reasons for a team to be optimistic about the upcoming season after coming off a 5-11 season, with its offense ranking 25th in points nad its defense ranking 18th overall. Heck, it only went 8-8 in the previous season and 9-7 the season before that. The running game was completely non-existent, and its franchise quarterback had no explosive receiving weapons.This team was widely regarded to finish last in the division, with no playoffs in the future.

Who's this team?

The 2001 New England Patriots, who went on to win the next 3 out of 4 SuperBowls.

Before you people get your panties up in a bunch, the point is not that the Bills are the Patriots, but it's NEVER SAY NEVER. Any time you think you're sure, reality always surprises you.

:miyagi:

And they had a coach who had only one winning season out of six

[gr8slayer]

It could be worse. You could be a Lions fan. They've been waiting since 1957.
Or even worse, a Dolphins fan.

[ddaryl]

Of all the teams that fit, or came close to fitting that criteria over time, how many went on to do what the Patriots did?

Kurt Warner was stocking supermarket shelves too before joining the Rams and going to a Super Bowl. I suppose then by that logic that we should immediately run out and grab every supermarket stocker that ever played football and sign them all to be our backup QBs.

Or let's only draft RBs in round 6 because that's where Terrell Davis was drafted.

LMAO

The logic applied in these forums is entertaining to be sure.



wow gotta love that We will always suck attitude, you must be so proud of yourself....

Sorry I will never share your views......

[feelthepain]

There are absolutely no reasons for a team to be optimistic about the upcoming season after coming off a 5-11 season, with its offense ranking 25th in points nad its defense ranking 18th overall. Heck, it only went 8-8 in the previous season and 9-7 the season before that. The running game was completely non-existent, and its franchise quarterback had no explosive receiving weapons.This team was widely regarded to finish last in the division, with no playoffs in the future.

Who's this team?

The 2001 New England Patriots, who went on to win the next 3 out of 4 SuperBowls.

Before you people get your panties up in a bunch, the point is not that the Bills are the Patriots, but it's NEVER SAY NEVER. Any time you think you're sure, reality always surprises you.

:miyagi:

Yes well, most teams don't have BB and Tom Brady. In New England it's a system thing more then it is a talent thing. They are the exception....not the rule.

[Pinkerton Security]

Or even worse, a Dolphins fan.

Ya, imagine how disappointing it is when you are supposed to be SB bound at the beginning of the season and end up getting swept by your "inferior" rivals, getting shut out one of the games, while your savior QB tries to play and simply cant. now that would be dreadful.

[justasportsfan]

if you keep your hopes up but you're constantly disappointed becasue the things you hope for never actually happen, that sounds pretty dreadful to me.


There's a light at the end of the tunnel. It seems an hour away. A day later , you still don't get there and it still seems like it's an hour away. You start thinking is the light really there? Do you give up or do you still keep going?

I'd still keep going but I'll be damned if I take that trip with people like you.

[OpIv37]

There's a light at the end of the tunnel. It seems an hour away. A day later , you still don't get there and it still seems like it's an hour away. You start thinking is the light really there? Do you give up or do you still keep going?

I'd still keep going but I'll be damned if I take that trip with people like you.


Well in that situation you have the choice as to whether or not to keep going.

We don't have any control over what the Bills do. All we can do is hope for the best. But the smart people expect the worst while hoping for the best instead of using this ridiculous "well it happened to the Patriots once so it's going to happen to us too!" logic to feel warm and fuzzy inside despite the glaring realities outside.

[Mr. Miyagi]

But the smart people expect the worst while hoping for the best instead of using this ridiculous "well it happened to the Patriots once so it's going to happen to us too!" logic to feel warm and fuzzy inside despite the glaring realities outside.
Being hopeful and optimistic is being dumb, whereas the negative nancies are the smart people? Is that what you're saying?

Just because I choose to have a positive attitude doesn't mean I'm putting my head in the sand about the worst that could happen. I just don't repeat it over and over again.

[justasportsfan]

Well in that situation you have the choice as to whether or not to keep going.

We don't have any control over what the Bills do. All we can do is hope for the best. But the smart people expect the worst while hoping for the best instead of using this ridiculous "well it happened to the Patriots once so it's going to happen to us too!" logic to feel warm and fuzzy inside despite the glaring realities outside.
I forgot to tell you there is a choice.

Just think of the bills as being that tunnel. There might be light (hope) at the end of that tunnel but there will be bumps ahead. Some bad ones and some good ones. You have a choice to quit which means , switching teams.

I'd rather guys like you just quit than make that trip with you.



Do you realize why everytime before a game before a team hits the field the leaders of a team are nothing like you? Imagine this "Aight D, we're gonna die on 3"

Imagine Ray Lewis " OMG, the sky is falling. We're gonna get our assed whooped guys! Let's just get this game over and done with so we can go home. It's not looking good".

[feelthepain]

Ya, imagine how disappointing it is when you are supposed to be SB bound at the beginning of the season and end up getting swept by your "inferior" rivals, getting shut out one of the games, while your savior QB tries to play and simply cant. now that would be dreadful.

Not even close to as deadful as watching your team go to 4 SB only to lose every one them, Each loss worse then the last. Losing by a foot to the Giants, Watching the Redskins pound you into the ground by haltime leading by as much as 21 points in the 3rd qtr. Or getting beat like an redheaded step child back to back by the Cowboys. Being the whooping post for the NFC east!

On the other hand as a rival fan watching it, it was quite enjoyable, knowing how happy the Bill fans were and all the trash talking they would do, Wahtching Bruce Smith and Darrell Talley standing on the sidelines laughing and saying "what time is it?" Us fin fans laughing and saying, "time to lose another SB"!! To in the end throw all the trash talking right back in your face. Bill fans can't even bragg about how dominant those seasons were cause the results of each of those season makes Bills fans want to forget about it! Priceless!!! Wow, how dreadful....for you! And guess what? We will forget about 2006...but you'll never forget about 4 losses in a row and we won't let you. As if that weren't bad enough we own you for an entire decade! 20 losses in a row. Enjoy.

[OpIv37]

Being hopeful and optimistic is being dumb, whereas the negative nancies are the smart people? Is that what you're saying?

Just because I choose to have a positive attitude doesn't mean I'm putting my head in the sand about the worst that could happen. I just don't repeat it over and over again.

First I didn't say anything about being hopeful. I always hope the Bills are going to win. But hoping for something and expecting something are totally different things. I also hope the Patriots go 0-16 and Tom Brady gets arrested for drunk driving after crashing his free Cadillac into a telephone pole. I also hope I win the lottery. But it's not going to happen.

Second, being optimistic isn't necessarily dumb, but being optimistic with faulty logic and overwhelming evidence to the contrary is. It's pretty dumb to defend your optimism by using the exception as the rule- what happened to the Patriots circa 2001 has nothing to do with the Bills or their chances for 2007. There is no logical connection whatsoever. The fact is we lost starters at 4 positions (Fletcher, Clements, Spikes, McGahee) and only have a replacement for one of them (Ellison). Now, I know these guys weren't exactly superstars and should be easily replaceable, but we HAVEN'T found proven replacements for ANY of them yet.

When you have to resort to BS like "they have another year in the system" and "Kyle Williams gained 12 pounds!" or "A Patriots team in a different year with different players and different coaches did it, so we can too!" as the basis for your optimism, it comes off as pretty damn dumb.

[TedMock]

if you keep your hopes up but you're constantly disappointed becasue the things you hope for never actually happen, that sounds pretty dreadful to me.

I can see that and I think blind optimism is definitely the wrong way to look at things, but isn't it even even more dreadful to be continuously negative about something you're going to invest time and energy into? Low expectations are one thing, but some folks around here constantly complain about everything the team does. They won't even give themselves a chance to enjoy things. That's even more dreadful in my opinion.

[OpIv37]

I forgot to tell you there is a choice.

Just think of the bills as being that tunnel. There might be light (hope) at the end of that tunnel but there will be bumps ahead. Some bad ones and some good ones. You have a choice to quit which means , switching teams.

I'd rather guys like you just quit than make that trip with you.



Do you realize why everytime before a game before a team hits the field the leaders of a team are nothing like you? Imagine this "Aight D, we're gonna die on 3"

Imagine Ray Lewis " OMG, the sky is falling. We're gonna get our assed whooped guys! Let's just get this game over and done with so we can go home. It's not looking good".

You're overlooking one HUGE difference. I'm not on the team. The attitudes of the players DO effect the team, my attitude DOESN'T. If I was on the team I would be doing everything I can to try to compensate for all the defeciences. But I'm not- I'm just a fan who has to sit here and watch all the deficiencies week in, and week out.

You know, some of us are going through the tunnel saying things like "look out, there are rocks ahead", "watch that low ceiling there", "don't slip in the big puddle", etc. And some of you have tunnel vision inside the tunnel- you're running full speed towards the light without stopping to think that there may be obstacles between you and the light.

[OpIv37]

I can see that and I think blind optimism isn't how things should be looked at, but isn't even even more dreadful to be continuously negative about something you're going to invest time and energy into? Low expectations are one thing, but some folks around here constantly complain about everything the team does. They won't even give themselves a chance to enjoy things. That's even more dreadful in my opinion.

I can't speak for everybody, but I don't enjoy anything about losing and that's all we've been doing lately.

[Mr. Miyagi]

OMG did you bother to read my first post? Like I said I'm not saying the Bills are the Patriots this year. Exception to the rule? You know what the rule is? It's NEVER SAY NEVER. That's the rule. Anything can happen at any time.

Now you're getting dangerously close to violating our disclaimer. Keep it up OpIv.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I can see that and I think blind optimism is definitely the wrong way to look at things, but isn't it even even more dreadful to be continuously negative about something you're going to invest time and energy into? Low expectations are one thing, but some folks around here constantly complain about everything the team does. They won't even give themselves a chance to enjoy things. That's even more dreadful in my opinion.
:bf1:

[OpIv37]

OMG did you bother to read my first post? Like I said I'm not saying the Bills are the Patriots this year. Exception to the rule? You know what the rule is? It's NEVER SAY NEVER. That's the rule. Anything can happen at any time.

Now you're getting dangerously close to violating our disclaimer. Keep it up OpIv.

Once again, the basis for your optimism is "Anything can happen". That's it. It's grasping at straws. It's desperation. There is no substance to it.

If feelthepain made the same post about the Dolphins having a shot because "Never say Never", you'd be laughing your ass off at how ridiculous it sounds.

[madness]

But the smart people expect the worst .

:spit: Did they teach you that at the National Pessimist Convention?

"Expect the best, plan for the worst, and prepare to be surprised." ~ Dennis Waitley

[Mr. Pink]

OMG did you bother to read my first post? Like I said I'm not saying the Bills are the Patriots this year. Exception to the rule? You know what the rule is? It's NEVER SAY NEVER. That's the rule. Anything can happen at any time.

Now you're getting dangerously close to violating our disclaimer. Keep it up OpIv.


I don't want to step on any toes or overstep the boundaries here but...he is talking Bills football just not in a positive aspect. I didn't know that the new rules made everyone have to be happy and positive and upbeat about everything. This team does have flaws, as does every other team in the league mostly. This team does have bright spots too. But the flaws at times are overly glaring and make it hard to see those bright spots. I at times have a tough time finding the bright spots too. Then again, when you've been a Browns fan all your life and then a Bills fan for the past decade, it's not difficult to have that happen.

[justasportsfan]

You're overlooking one HUGE difference. I'm not on the team. The attitudes of the players DO effect the team, my attitude DOESN'T. If I was on the team I would be doing everything I can to try to compensate for all the defeciences. But I'm not- I'm just a fan who has to sit here and watch all the deficiencies week in, and week out. .I thought you were good at reading into things. We're (bills fans) all in the same tunnel . We're all traveling the same path not knowing what lies ahead. We've all experience the same trip so far . Both smooth and bad roads (TD ERA) We know it could get worse or not. We have no choice with the path we're taking. We have no control.



You know, some of us are going through the tunnel saying things like "look out, there are rocks ahead", "watch that low ceiling there", "don't slip in the big puddle", etc. And some of you have tunnel vision inside the tunnel- you're running full speed towards the light without stopping to think that there may be obstacles between you and the light. we all have the same light. We're all experiencing the same thing and there's no one to tell us, "look out, etc. etc." .

It's either you quit (switch teams) or travel the same tunnel. This is why I'd would not want guys like you on my team or on the same trip. We're all gonna experience the same things along the way reagrdless. I'd just don't want people whining and crying all the time with me.

[TedMock]

I can't speak for everybody, but I don't enjoy anything about losing and that's all we've been doing lately.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly how everybody feels. Nobody likes losing.

My point is that some of us enjoy the thought of some of the prospects we've brought in making the team better. We liked last years draft and we look forward to seeing these players develop. We're looking forward to this draft. I think the mentality of the team has drastically improved and that is to Jauron's credit. Time will tell if Levy and co. have done a bad job. As of now, overall, I think they've done fairly well - not great, but well. I don't like all of last year's FA moves that's for certain. Reyes was especially terrible and Price just isn't the same WR he once was. The jury is obviously still out on Tripplett as he was placed in an impossible situation to play his role. Most of our fans realize that though.

So, yes - losing sucks, but I enjoy following the team.

[Buffalo Sabres]

NEVER SAY NEVERpeople seem to forget that they're profesionals on both teams, it's just who steps up and makes plays!

[OpIv37]

I'm pretty sure that's exactly how everybody feels. Nobody likes losing.

My point is that some of us enjoy the thought of some of the prospects we've brought in making the team better. We liked last years draft and we look forward to seeing these players develop. We're looking forward to this draft. I think the mentality of the team has drastically improved and that is to Jauron's credit. Time will tell if Levy and co. have done a bad job. As of now, overall, I think they've done fairly well - not great, but well. I don't like all of last year's FA moves that's for certain. Reyes was especially terrible and Price just isn't the same WR he once was. The jury is obviously still out on Tripplett as he was placed in an impossible situation to play his role. Most of our fans realize that though.

So, yes - losing sucks, but I enjoy following the team.

sure, I like looking at the off-season moves, but I think some people here use them as a way to convince themselves that the team is better than it is rather than looking analytically at the prospects for improvement.

I keep hearing things like "well, the holes on D won't matter because our offense is better and will be able to keep the D off the field." While there is a little truth to that (at least in theory- there have been several failed attempts to beef up the OL recently), no matter how good the O is, the D eventually has to be on the field.

[justasportsfan]

If feelthepain made the same post about the Dolphins having a shot because "Never say Never", you'd be laughing your ass off at how ridiculous it sounds.
So would you but if he said the bills will suck you'd agree :huh:

[OpIv37]

So would you but if he said the bills will suck you'd agree :huh:

yes, because I have a list of reasons as to why I think the Bills will suck. I know not everyone will agree with me or those reasons, and that's why we're on this message board: to discuss the Bills. But when the best thing someone can come up with is "never say never", well, I'm just gonna stop right there cuz I already got a warning for this thread. Scroll up and read my previous responses.

[Neggie Nancy]

OMG did you bother to read my first post? Like I said I'm not saying the Bills are the Patriots this year. Exception to the rule? You know what the rule is? It's NEVER SAY NEVER. That's the rule. Anything can happen at any time.

Now you're getting dangerously close to violating our disclaimer. Keep it up OpIv.

By your disclaimer I'm not sure what you mean. Does your disclaimer mean that you have to agree with the homers, ESPECIALLY the Mods???

By being down on the Bills, who in my opinion have done very little to improve themselves, and being vocal about it as such; does that qualify as "posting expressly to incite other posters"

Is this is a board where you still have the freedom to express YOUR OWN opinions and views on the Bills and/or it's direction.. Or is the disclaimer basically a masked code that in reality reads "get on board with the majority of we're going to phase/run you off our message board?

I read most of OP's posts and while I guess I am considered a "realist" (by definintion on this board) I actually don't agree with a lot of what he has to say. However, his views almost always stick to the subject at hand, its not like he saying "your an ******* for thinking the bills are any good".

I'm not talking about you specifically, but I think it's pretty piss poor that when you read between the lines of the "disclaimer" its basically DONT "incite" other posters (AKA as homers) by talking **** about the Bills or you're not welcome here.

As long as its done on topic and with respect to the person you're talking too, I don't see how it can be offensive to consistently disagree with someone. It's a message board and variety is the spice of message board life.

I HONESTLY think at this point there are a large group on here that will just write "the Bills will be great" and it will get "thanked" by 16 different people..

What bothers me most is that its so easy to hit the ignore button if someone bothers you. to me, if you dont like what they have to say, IGNORE it and dont be bothered.. and if they're statements are personal attacks, and violate the rules of the board, then as a MOD thats when you handle it.

But OP, myself or ANYONE for that matter should have the right to disagree with a post, EVERY SINGLE POST if they choose, and express it without the fear and/or threat of getting run of the board.

Now I understand the reason for the disclaimer.. MB fighting was becoming the norm in here (and I had a part in it as well) so understandably that needs to be policed.. But if the post isnt a personal attack on someone specifically then it should ALWAYS BE fair game.

[TedMock]

sure, I like looking at the off-season moves, but I think some people here use them as a way to convince themselves that the team is better than it is rather than looking analytically at the prospects for improvement.

I keep hearing things like "well, the holes on D won't matter because our offense is better and will be able to keep the D off the field." While there is a little truth to that (at least in theory- there have been several failed attempts to beef up the OL recently), no matter how good the O is, the D eventually has to be on the field.

That makes sense. As fans, we can't will the team to win and, I agree, we need to be at least respectable on either side of the ball.

This offseason is weird to me. I've been optimistic during some offseasons, and cautious during others, but I really have no clue which way to lean this year. I do think Dockery was a good signing. Walker is a big question mark. He's a good guard, but we signed him to play tackle where he did struggle. Defensively, we're so young right now. These guys could boom or bust. It's really tough to get a feeling either way. I think our recent history is causing many to just lean toward expecting disappointment and I don't blame them. I just don't feel that down on the team right now. I'm not totally confident either. Just hoping for the best.

[Neggie Nancy]

For the record..

I"m not "down" on this team until after I see the draft.

but it better be a really good one, or we're going to suffer a hell of a lot more growing pains before we become any kind of real contenders.

Our "cash to cap" hindered a couple of moves especially defensively I would've loved to see us make during FA. Maybe not them specifically, but had we signed a couple of guys like a CAto June or Nick Harper, we'd have a hell of a lot more flexibility going into draft day.

[justasportsfan]

yes, because I have a list of reasons as to why I think the Bills will suck. I know not everyone will agree with me or those reasons, and that's why we're on this message board: to discuss the Bills. But when the best thing someone can come up with is "never say never", well, I'm just gonna stop right there cuz I already got a warning for this thread. Scroll up and read my previous responses.fair enough. I just find it funny that you would think he get's a bad rap here becuase of his football knowledge. He doesn't think the bills will suck for the same reasons you do. He says it because he is a fins HOMER. So while you actually don't like homers, you are agreeing with one of the biggest ones regardless of team. So in reality, you guys have opposite logics.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Why is it that everyone is missing the point of this thread? The point is that I'm sure back in the 2001 offseason, there were as many Patriots fans that are like some of you negative nancies, they had all kinds of reasons, data, and facts to accurately predict that the Pats would suck and would continue to suck. The sky was falling on them and there was no stopping it. And with all those reasons that they would suck, the Pats began to win games and never turned back. If that could happen to one team, why couldn't it happen to another? Because the odds were stacked up against us? Any more than the Patriots that year?

[Neggie Nancy]

Why is it that everyone is missing the point of this thread? The point is that I'm sure back in the 2001 offseason, there were as many Patriots fans that are like some of you negative nancies, they had all kinds of reasons, data, and facts to accurately predict that the Pats would suck and would continue to suck. The sky was falling on them and there was no stopping it. And with all those reasons that they would suck, the Pats began to win games and never turned back. If that could happen to one team, why couldn't it happen to another? Because the odds were stacked up against us? Any more than the Patriots that year?
I actually agree with the point of the thread, and relate to what you're talking about..

And to go one further, EVERY year there are a small handful of teams that come from nowhere and become playoff teams..

[Mr. Miyagi]

I actually agree with the point of the thread, and relate to what you're talking about..

And to go one further, EVERY year there are a small handful of teams that come from nowhere and become playoff teams..
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bf1::bf1:

[OpIv37]

Why is it that everyone is missing the point of this thread? The point is that I'm sure back in the 2001 offseason, there were as many Patriots fans that are like some of you negative nancies, they had all kinds of reasons, data, and facts to accurately predict that the Pats would suck and would continue to suck. The sky was falling on them and there was no stopping it. And with all those reasons that they would suck, the Pats began to win games and never turned back. If that could happen to one team, why couldn't it happen to another? Because the odds were stacked up against us? Any more than the Patriots that year?

No one is saying it can't happen- it's just ridiculously unlikely. And I'd rather prepare myself for the most likely outcome (IMO, the most likely outcome is a struggle to get back to 7-9) and be pleasantly surprised if the unlikely happens than to get my hopes up for somethign that probably won't happen.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Fine. Then please prepare yourself to brace for the worst SILENTLY. Most of us don't share it and no one wants to hear it over and over and over and over again.

[ddaryl]

What about the pre-lockout Sabres....Did anyone really forsee such a dominate team after the lockout ?

chronic pessimism is a waste of life IMO. We believe and remain optomistic because history has proven that things change. What once was bad will be good, what once was great will lose its greatness.

The only thing the thought of a new season should bring is optomism. If the thought of a new season brings pessimism then IMO you've got things screwed on backwards... really what's the point of constantly believing there is no hope... that's a losers mentality

[OpIv37]

fair enough. I just find it funny that you would think he get's a bad rap here becuase of his football knowledge. He doesn't think the bills will suck for the same reasons you do. He says it because he is a fins HOMER. So while you actually don't like homers, you are agreeing with one of the biggest ones regardless of team. So in reality, you guys have opposite logics.

well just because he arrives at a valid conclusion doesn't necessarily mean his methods were sound. He has some posts that are definitely from the Fins homer perspective but when he discusses other teams, he does have some football knowledge.

[OpIv37]

What about the pre-lockout Sabres....Did anyone really forsee such a dominate team after the lockout ?

chronic pessimism is a waste of life IMO. We believe and remain optomistic because history has proven that things change. What once was bad will be good, what once was great will lose its greatness.

The only thing the thought of a new season should bring is optomism. If the thought of a new season brings pessimism then IMO you've got things screwed on backwards... really what's the point of constantly believing there is no hope... that's a losers mentality

First, what the Sabres did in a different sport is irrelevant to the Bills.

Second, things can change but they don't necessarily change, and not all change is necessarily good.

The new season shouldn't bring optimism just because it's new- it should bring optimism because the FO made moves to make the team better. IMO, while there were some good moves this year, they aren't nearly enough to compensate for last year's deficiencies and the players we lost in the off-season.

Now, I realize not everyone will agree with that, and hence we have message boards like this one for discussion. If you disagree with my assessment and find optimism in what the team has done, that's fine- we'll discuss it. But to have optimism (or for that matter, pessism) just because it's a new season without looking analytically at whether or not the team did something to get better- well, that's just ridiculous.

[justasportsfan]

well just because he arrives at a valid conclusion doesn't necessarily mean his methods were sound. He has some posts that are definitely from the Fins homer perspective but when he discusses other teams, he does have some football knowledge.
His is hate and yours is your pessimism but you come to the same conclussion. You'd actually hate his opinions if he were a bills fan. You dislike homers. He thinks every player they bring in is headed to the probowl. So whether you agree or not, I can see passed through you, you only think he gets a bad rap because of having the same conculsion when in fact, he is your opposite.He's everything you hate. He's everything that bothers you. He's worse than Skooby's blind fate for their respective team.

Here's an example, he's still defending Mularkey and still thought Bennie was decent pick up . You agree with that? I bet you don't, But when he says the bills will suck, all of a sudden , "he get's a bad rap around here" or a "valid conclussion".


It may sound out of subject but I had to bring that up to question your opinion on things.

Let me give you an idea, you defend him more than his fellow finfans . You only agree with him because both your conclussions about the bills are negative.

[OpIv37]

His is hate and yours is your pessimism but you come to the same conclussion. You'd actually hate his opinions if he were a bills fan. You dislike homers. He thinks every player they bring in is headed to the probowl. So whether you agree or not, I can see passed through you, you only think he gets a bad rap because of having the same conculsion when in fact, he is your opposite.He's everything you hate. He's everything that bothers you. He's worse than Skooby's.

Here's an example, he's still defending Mularkey and still thought Bennie was decent pick up . You agree with that? I bet you don't, But when he says the bills will suck, all of a sudden , "he get's a bad rap around here". It may sound out of subject but I had to bring that up to question your opinion on things.

Let me give you an idea, you defend him more than his fellow finfans .

I think I only defended him once or twice, so his fellow fin fans must not have his back at all. I've seen a few posts by him where he actually seemed to reason through and didn't let his love of the Fish or hatred of the Bills cloud his thoughts too much, but when it comes to the Dolphins, you're right- he does defend them to the extent of earning the "homer" title. If I paid more attention to him, maybe I wouldn't defend him so much- but if he makes a good point, I'm not going to rip on him just because his previous posts were dripping with teal and orange homerism.

[justasportsfan]

I think I only defended him once or twice, so his fellow fin fans must not have his back at all. I've seen a few posts by him where he actually seemed to reason through and didn't let his love of the Fish or hatred of the Bills cloud his thoughts too much, but when it comes to the Dolphins, you're right- he does defend them to the extent of earning the "homer" title. If I paid more attention to him, maybe I wouldn't defend him so much- but if he makes a good point, I'm not going to rip on him just because his previous posts were dripping with teal and orange homerism.
na, you defend him because you'r reaching for company. Misery loves company which leads to my point in all of this , which in turn leads to the subject.

I agree with MM. While what happened to the Pats doesn't mean it WILL happen to the bills however it CAN happen. Even the most pessimitic poster here like yourself agree's that this staff had the team headed the right direction (the big picture) and yet ya'll talk like there's more reason to doubt this staff. Makes it seem like you're whining just to whine.

[feelthepain]

Why is it that everyone is missing the point of this thread? The point is that I'm sure back in the 2001 offseason, there were as many Patriots fans that are like some of you negative nancies, they had all kinds of reasons, data, and facts to accurately predict that the Pats would suck and would continue to suck. The sky was falling on them and there was no stopping it. And with all those reasons that they would suck, the Pats began to win games and never turned back. If that could happen to one team, why couldn't it happen to another? Because the odds were stacked up against us? Any more than the Patriots that year?


Why doesn't it happen every year, if it's so simple? Anything is possible, but what you're implying is extremely unlikely, EXTREMELY!!!!! The Pats caught lightning in a bottle, it's something that rarely happens. Like watching the Redsox hit 4 homeruns in a row, it's only happened five time in the hstory of baseball....and that's a lot eaiser then doing what the Pats did. There had to be a ton of crap fall their way exactly right for things to happen for them the way they did. Tom Brady in the 6th round??? That's frikin destiny, you can't duplicate that kinda crap.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Why doesn't it happen every year, if it's so simple? Anything is possible, but what you're implying is extremely unlikely, EXTREMELY!!!!! The Pats caught lightning in a bottle, it's something that rarely happens. Like watching the Redsox hit 4 homeruns in a row, it's only happened five time in the hstory of baseball....and that's a lot eaiser then doing what the Pats did. There had to be a ton of crap fall their way exactly right for things to happen for them the way they did. Tom Brady in the 6th round??? That's frikin destiny, you can't duplicate that kinda crap.
The Cincinnati Bengals went from 2-14 to 11-5 in 3 years. (2002-2005)

The Baltimore Ravens went from 8-8 to Super Bowl Champs in 1 year. (2000)

The Carolina Panthers went from 7-9 to the Super Bowl in 1 year. (2003)

The Chicago Bears went from 5-11 to 11-5 in 1 year. (2005)

The New York Jets went from 4-12 to 10-6 and making the playoffs in 1 year. (2006)

The St. Louis Rams went from 4-12 to Super Bowl Champs in 1 year (1999)

Those are just a few examples. No one is saying we're winning the big one this season, but playoffs is not out of the questions. In this day and age of free agency and league parity, any team can jump ahead and surprise the world. Lightning in a bottle, luck of the draw, exception to the rule, whatever you want to call it. But it does happen, and it happens every year, more often than you'd like to admit.

NEVER SAY NEVER.

[Gunzlingr]

You might as well give up, Jason. Some people enjoy wallowing in misery. Not a down of football has been played, yet we are going 0-16.

[feelthepain]

The Cincinnati Bengals went from 2-14 to 11-5 in 3 years. (2002-2005)

The Baltimore Ravens went from 8-8 to Super Bowl Champs in 1 year. (2000)

The Carolina Panthers went from 7-9 to the Super Bowl in 1 year. (2003)

The Chicago Bears went from 5-11 to 11-5 in 1 year. (2005)

The New York Jets went from 4-12 to 10-6 and making the playoffs in 1 year. (2006)

The St. Louis Rams went from 4-12 to Super Bowl Champs in 1 year (1999)

Those are just a few examples. No one is saying we're winning the big one this season, but playoffs is not out of the questions. In this day and age of free agency and league parity, any team can jump ahead and surprise the world. Lightning in a bottle, luck of the draw, exception to the rule, whatever you want to call it. But it does happen, and it happens every year, more often than you'd like to admit.

NEVER SAY NEVER.

You start this thread with the NE Pats, then come back with all the one year turnarounds in the last decade. There is a huge difference in what NE did and those other teams...even the Rams. How many of those teams lost four starters and then replaced the 4 starters with no one, or rookies and went from a bad season to a good season?? Dude, I'm not knocking you for being optimistic, just the fact that you make an argument for the Bills with so many wholes that need to be filled much less filled with some kind of experience. That goes a long ways in fliping a season.

[!Papacrunk!]

There are absolutely no reasons for a team to be optimistic about the upcoming season after coming off a 5-11 season, with its offense ranking 25th in points nad its defense ranking 18th overall. Heck, it only went 8-8 in the previous season and 9-7 the season before that. The running game was completely non-existent, and its franchise quarterback had no explosive receiving weapons.This team was widely regarded to finish last in the division, with no playoffs in the future.

Who's this team?

The 2001 New England Patriots, who went on to win the next 3 out of 4 SuperBowls.

Before you people get your panties up in a bunch, the point is not that the Bills are the Patriots, but it's NEVER SAY NEVER. Any time you think you're sure, reality always surprises you.

:miyagi:

By sticking to you message, I may be expecting a rough season for Miami, but I won't give up hope:never say never. Thanks man.

[OpIv37]

The Cincinnati Bengals went from 2-14 to 11-5 in 3 years. (2002-2005)

The Baltimore Ravens went from 8-8 to Super Bowl Champs in 1 year. (2000)

The Carolina Panthers went from 7-9 to the Super Bowl in 1 year. (2003)

The Chicago Bears went from 5-11 to 11-5 in 1 year. (2005)

The New York Jets went from 4-12 to 10-6 and making the playoffs in 1 year. (2006)

The St. Louis Rams went from 4-12 to Super Bowl Champs in 1 year (1999)

Those are just a few examples. No one is saying we're winning the big one this season, but playoffs is not out of the questions. In this day and age of free agency and league parity, any team can jump ahead and surprise the world. Lightning in a bottle, luck of the draw, exception to the rule, whatever you want to call it. But it does happen, and it happens every year, more often than you'd like to admit.

NEVER SAY NEVER.

You're forgetting one thing- all of those teams that you mentioned were MUCH more talented and experienced than the 2007 Buffalo Bills. Several of them had innovative offensive or defensive systems that have since been exposed ('99 Rams and '05 Bears come immediately to mind).

If you want to compare us to those teams, fine, but compare EVERYTHING.

[PromoTheRobot]

I think this post says more about how little those who cover pro football actually understand it. That's why it's pointless to get worked up over things that the media says.

PTR


There are absolutely no reasons for a team to be optimistic about the upcoming season after coming off a 5-11 season, with its offense ranking 25th in points nad its defense ranking 18th overall. Heck, it only went 8-8 in the previous season and 9-7 the season before that. The running game was completely non-existent, and its franchise quarterback had no explosive receiving weapons.This team was widely regarded to finish last in the division, with no playoffs in the future.

Who's this team?

The 2001 New England Patriots, who went on to win the next 3 out of 4 SuperBowls.

Before you people get your panties up in a bunch, the point is not that the Bills are the Patriots, but it's NEVER SAY NEVER. Any time you think you're sure, reality always surprises you.

:miyagi:

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I don't want to sound like I am pessimistic about the season, because I am looking forward to good things, but these kind of comparisons are stupid. How many teams went 7-9 and went further into the tank?

How about these:

2001 - 02 KC - changed to Holmes as RB and went from 7-9 to 6-10.
2000 - 06 Oak - in 2003 they went 4-12 to 5-11 to 4-12 to 2-14.
2001 - 03 SD - went from 5-11 to 8-8 to 4-12
2004 - 06 Ten went 5-11 to 4-12 to 8-8
2002 - 06 Ariz went from 5-11 to 4-12 to 6-10 to 5-11 to 5-11
2001 - 03 Dal went from 5-11 to 5-11 to 5-11
2001 - 06 Det went from 2-14 to 3-13 to 5-11 to 6-10 to 5-11 to 3-13
2001 - 06 Min went from 5-11 to 6-10 to 9-7 to 8-8 to 9-7 to 6-10

For every team that turns it around in a season, there are a handful of teams that remain the same or get worse.

[justasportsfan]

How many teams went 7-9 and went further into the tank?

. In other words, both sides have a valid argument.