I Feel like I've been even keel of late but this bugs me.

[patmoran2006]

Sorry.. but this LJ talk is getting to me, especially in light of hearing GB is offering a 1st and 4th for LJ, knowing we could do far better.

KC could offer us LJ for a water bottle and Ralph Wilson will say no, because his committment to being a championship team isnt strong enough to pay a RB Top 3 money in the NFL.. Even if he did have 2200 total yards last year and 37 TD's in the past two years, and that he's still only 27 years old.

Sorry, but its true.. and I've actually been even keel as of late and not negative much at all.

[BigGabes23]

I have to agree... It is the same reason that we do not trade for Briggs and Turner.

[jamesiscool]

I have to agree... It is the same reason that we do not trade for Briggs and Turner.

its not over yet. draft day could have some big names bein tossed around to different teams.

[patmoran2006]

We aint landing no big names.. big names = big money

Just hope we draft really, really well. And then worry about them when they are 1-2 years away from their contracts being up.

[HHURRICANE]

I don't agree with you. In 48 hours you can start *****ing.

[patmoran2006]

ok

[mayotm]

Sorry.. but this LJ talk is getting to me, especially in light of hearing GB is offering a 1st and 4th for LJ, knowing we could do far better.

KC could offer us LJ for a water bottle and Ralph Wilson will say no, because his committment to being a championship team isnt strong enough to pay a RB Top 3 money in the NFL.. Even if he did have 2200 total yards last year and 37 TD's in the past two years, and that he's still only 27 years old.

Sorry, but its true.. and I've actually been even keel as of late and not negative much at all.I guess you're off your meds.

[justasportsfan]

Haha! Spikes, Bledsoe, Milloy,etc .Ralphy gave TD all the power to bring in anyone he wanted. Ralphy supposedly wanted Sherman who would've cost more that Jauron but Marv opted for the latter. How does that make him cheap?

Unless you have credible source (which you don't) that Ralphy himself made the decision alone to not bring in these guys and that MArv and Dick had nothing to do with that, IT's not true. All you have is your opinion.

[Saratoga Slim]

Sorry.. but this LJ talk is getting to me, especially in light of hearing GB is offering a 1st and 4th for LJ, knowing we could do far better.

KC could offer us LJ for a water bottle and Ralph Wilson will say no, because his committment to being a championship team isnt strong enough to pay a RB Top 3 money in the NFL.. Even if he did have 2200 total yards last year and 37 TD's in the past two years, and that he's still only 27 years old.

Sorry, but its true.. and I've actually been even keel as of late and not negative much at all.

maybe not now, after we gave like 100 Million Dollars to Dockery, Kelsay, and Walker. Even if the money we'll ever have to pay on those contracts is well south of 100M, Ralph opened his wallet this offseason big time. I don't think we can chastise him for cheapness at the moment.

[HHURRICANE]

I don't agree with Pat that our issues are because we are cheap. No way.

However, we got over zealous in the off-season, maybe arrogant, by letting McGahee walk when we knew that we would let Spikes, Fletcher and Clements go.

That's too many holes to fill with one draft. Now we are screwed at LB and RB and we have decided potentailly, and I have to agree, that the talent isn't that good at #12 if Willis is off the board. Maybe that scenario shoud have been discussed before we decided to take the high road.

[Michael82]

Anyone else sick and tired of hearing the same old whiny **** about Ralph being cheap and stingy with his money? Enough already, pat! This is what people were talking about when they said quit beating the **** out of the dead horse!!! :crazy: :mad:

[L.A. Playa]

Honestly I dont agree with *****ing about everything and PatMoran doesnt need anyone to defend him, but with the Cash to cap starategy the Bills are taking they mainly mean this.

The Bills got a check from the NFL for their share of the TV contract, that is the max amount they will pay on player salaries and bonuses for the 2007 season.

Waht patMoran is upset about and why he is calling Ralph cheap is, unlike other owners Ralph is not dipping into his own pocket to sign players, mostly big names like a Briggs, Johnson or Turner because he wants to use the revenue from the TV contract only and if he gives out anymore big bonuses, thiugh it wont put the Bills over the 2007 Salary Cap it will go over the self imposed Cash to Cap.

This is why he calls Ralph cheap, so the amounts of contracts handed out already have not really affected ralphs pocket book because he is merely spending the check he recieved from the NFL last for TV rights and not his own money.

I am not saying I agree or disagree with Patmoran just wanted to add an explanation to his opinion

[TacklingDummy]

Im all for drafting players and hoping the develop into big names.

I never liked the idea for trading for some other teams garbage.

Yeah im calling LJ garbage. Put McGahee behind KC line and LJ behind the Bills line the last 2 years and im sure there would be a world of difference.

[ddaryl]

Anyone else sick and tired of hearing the same old whiny **** about Ralph being cheap and stingy with his money? Enough already, pat! This is what people were talking about when they said quit beating the **** out of the dead horse!!! :crazy: :mad:


Yes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Never understood it

[jdbillsfan]

Sorry.. but this LJ talk is getting to me, especially in light of hearing GB is offering a 1st and 4th for LJ, knowing we could do far better.

KC could offer us LJ for a water bottle and Ralph Wilson will say no, because his committment to being a championship team isnt strong enough to pay a RB Top 3 money in the NFL.. Even if he did have 2200 total yards last year and 37 TD's in the past two years, and that he's still only 27 years old.

Sorry, but its true.. and I've actually been even keel as of late and not negative much at all.

Is it possible that they don't like Johnson enought to give him Top 3 money in the NFL? Obviously the Chiefs don't, so does that mean they don't want to win also?

Buffalo just traded away a running back that was a bit of a pain for them. Maybe they don't want to give up multiple picks and a ton of money for another one.

[justasportsfan]

Im all for drafting players and hoping the develop into big names.

I never liked the idea for trading for some other teams garbage.

.

Yes!!! That's what the Pats, Colts and Bills of the 90's did.

[BigGabes23]

Im all for drafting players and hoping the develop into big names.

I never liked the idea for trading for some other teams garbage.

Yeah im calling LJ garbage. Put McGahee behind KC line and LJ behind the Bills line the last 2 years and im sure there would be a world of difference.

LJ lost one Pro Bowl O-line men in 2006 and another this year... and it will not make a difference. He is a top 5 player in the NFL. He would produce similar to better numbers in Buffalo.

[Ickybaluky]

I have to agree... It is the same reason that we do not trade for Briggs and Turner.

Is everyone else cheap too?

Because nobody else has traded for Briggs, Turner or LJ yet.

[BigGabes23]

Is everyone else cheap too?

Because nobody else has traded for Briggs, Turner or LJ yet.

I think the point is that the Bills will not even explore the option, especially Briggs and LJ.

[justasportsfan]

I think the point is that the Bills will not even explore the option, especially Briggs and LJ.after all the rumors that have been flying around with the said players that the bills are supposedly interested , how is that make the bills not exploring the options? I'm sure the bills will explore every possibility. It's the fans who like to make assumptions that the team is incompetent depending on whether they like the FO moves especially the thread starter.

[HAMMER]

Take your meds Pat, the draft is a day and a half away. Ralph spent a truckload of money on the O-Line which was a glaring need. Better to have a good line and an average to above average RB than a crappy O-Line and a top tier back. There is no way certain posters on this board will be happy with everything the Bills do. If we dropped off a truckload of money to LJ and some picks in the process you would be *****ing about our need for a top tier LB. Maybe your parents didn't tell you this Pat, but you can't have everything. We are building this team the right way, with high character players that want to be here, and through the draft. It seems you want to try to buy a team like Dan Snyder, that doesn't work.

[Philagape]

Who we sign, who we don't sign, how much we pay individuals ... none of that is as telling as the fact that the Bills announced to the world that their budget policy for this offseason would be calculated in such a way that we wouldn't spend as much as we're eligible to under the NFL cap. That's not an opinion; they announced it.

Now, to pre-empt the inevitable "Redskins" response, that's changing the argument. That's going from "Ralph's not cheap" to "It's OK to be cheap." A team can still spend the maximum and do it wisely. Defending a policy of purposely paying less than the maximum because another team spent money unwisely makes no sense. That's saying you don't trust Marv with Ralph's money.

[Jan Reimers]

Anyone else sick and tired of hearing the same old whiny **** about Ralph being cheap and stingy with his money? Enough already, pat! This is what people were talking about when they said quit beating the **** out of the dead horse!!! :crazy: :mad:
I was going to say the same thing, Mikey, but I'm trying to be the kinder, gentler me.

[Mr. Pink]

Yes!!! That's what the Pats, Colts and Bills of the 90's did.


The Colts and Pats were good in the 90s? I missed that.

And there's a HUGE difference in the way the NFL is now than it was when the Bills of Superbowl lore were built. Back then you depended on the draft to build your team, if you screwed a draft, you screwed your team for years. Look at the Browns for 86-89 they were a top team in the AFC. Poor drafting caught up to them and the wheels came off in 1990.

Back then there was no cap, so you could keep whatever guys you wanted and discard the ones you didn't. Now, teams are forced to discard players because they can't afford them not that they don't want them. Was Clements discarded because he sucked? No he was discarded because we couldn't pay him the money he wanted under the Cap.

The way the 1990 Bills were, as a squad, will never happen again. Nor the Cowboys of 1992. Why? The cap forbids you from having that many star players on your team. The 1990 Bills had superstars everywhere, why? Because the economics of the game was a lot different than now.

Plan B FA back then was where you'd find other teams also-rans and trash. I think the Bills best FA acquisition through Plan B was Steve Christie. Teams didn't want players anymore due to whatever reason, health, age, salary, production and then wouldn't pay them anymore. If the player was good, they were kept. Imagine if the 1990 Bills were actually the 2005 Bills, would Jim Kelly, Thuman Thomas, Bruce Smith, Biscuit, Lofton, Kenneth Davis, Leonard Smith, Mark Kelso...etc all be on the same team now, 2 years later, not a chance. We would never have been able to keep all of them under the cap.

So you have to plug in FAs here, and FAs there. You can't sit and hope just the draft alone makes you great, because by the time these players get good...They're entering contract years and you can't afford to keep all of them.

You like to mention the Pats, like they never signed any FAs or anything in building the team. None of their RBs through their SB years were drafted by them. Rodney Harrison for the last few years was the most pivotal piece of their defense. They sign free agent WRs every year. Now this year, they went out and spent bucks in FA...so what happens when they go out and win the AFC East again, it really kills the theory.

Look, I understand each team has drafted players that are good. Each team also has FA acquistions that are good. All I'm saying is, you can't compare the way the 1990 Bills were built to the way you build a team now. The economics of the game is completely different now than it was then. It makes as much sense as me going the 50s Browns were built by Paul Brown sending out letters and visiting players he knew and/or coached at the collegiate level to build his team. You can't compare totally different eras' of football when so many parameters are vastly different.

[patmoran2006]

maybe not now, after we gave like 100 Million Dollars to Dockery, Kelsay, and Walker. Even if the money we'll ever have to pay on those contracts is well south of 100M, Ralph opened his wallet this offseason big time. I don't think we can chastise him for cheapness at the moment.

Seriously?

Dude, he hasnt even spent CASH TO THE CAP yet let alone tinkered in any kind of REAL (real as in the salary cap 31 other teams go by) danger.

[justasportsfan]

The Colts and Pats were good in the 90s? .

I'll simplify it for you , the current Colts, the current Pats and the bills of the 90's. Better?

[patmoran2006]

I'll simplify it for you , the current Colts, the current Pats and the bills of the 90's. Better?
The Patriots spent a ****load of money this offseason.. That's just proof that times are changing and you cannot restock MUTLIPLE holes year after year with just the draft alone.

ALthough I personally want him, I could certainly see the business sense in not wanting to pay LJ.. There is less of a premium on RB's these days.

But Turner is worth a good a contract, and Briggs sure as hell is.. You dont get shots at many proven Pro Bowl LB's who play in the cover two for a living.

The Colts are the one exception for a decade running, because they have the GOD of Gm's in Polian, and that's not sarcasm.. He has an ability like NOBODY else to just pluck guys from all over the board, it's truly incredible.

If he never left Buffalo we'd be like the Colts are right now, or at least in the playoffs every year.

[X-Era]

Sorry.. but this LJ talk is getting to me, especially in light of hearing GB is offering a 1st and 4th for LJ, knowing we could do far better.

KC could offer us LJ for a water bottle and Ralph Wilson will say no, because his committment to being a championship team isnt strong enough to pay a RB Top 3 money in the NFL.. Even if he did have 2200 total yards last year and 37 TD's in the past two years, and that he's still only 27 years old.

Sorry, but its true.. and I've actually been even keel as of late and not negative much at all.

No, its not true, its crap.

We just spent a gazillion on the OL and now were cheap again?

This post is idiotic at best and absolutely ******ed at worst.