Upon Further Review: Bills Got Ripped Off

[patmoran2006]

A mere 24 hours ago, I was delighted with the draft effort put forth by Marv Levy and the Buffalo Bills. In some regards, those views won’t change. The Bills bettered their backfield in a very big way. Marshawn Lynch has top ten running back written all over him in this league. While you can’t assume anybody coming out of college is the next Marshall Faulk, he positively has the ability to ignite fair comparisons. Dwayne Wright in round four was a steal. At worst he’ll be a bruising backup that comes in and punishes tired defenders. Potentially, the Bills could have the best running back tandem in the NFL within the next few years and for many to come. MORE.... (http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Patrick_Moran/2007/05/01/Upon_Further_Review_The_Bills_Got_Ripped_Off)

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Gonna go out on a limb and say this won't be well received here. Im also going to go out on FAR less of a limb and suggest 95% of everyone will not pay any attention the facts, numbers or subject matter. and it will become an endless assault of PERSONAL stabs per the norm..... Oh well, I speak my mind when I blog, whether it's appreciated it or not.. For the other unbiased readers who like to talk about topics, enjoy (objectively I hope)

[Dr. Lecter]

I said the same thing on Satruday night.

But......

When you look at what other teams gave up to move up that draft value chart most teams moving up got ripped off. To me it is a minor point in the trade. It was a costly year to move up.

One other point, that is unknown, is if there was a bidding war to move up.

I agree it is a valid criticism. But it is a small one and to say he was outsmarted by Millen is unfair. Millen was dealing from a position of power (with the Bills having been turned down for other attempts). Sometimes it costs more to move up, as the chart itself says.

So in conclusion: Did they give up more than I would have liked? Yes. Is it a big deal and worthy of heavy criticism?

No.

[Stewie]

Not liking a good player at a need position.. because of a made up point value chart... what a joke.

[Carlton Bailey]

Oh shutup already. You just look for ways to be negative.

[Ickybaluky]

According to my point value chart, the 3rd round pick was worth 3 ice cream sundaes. Considering Matt Millen's love of ice cream, he could not turn down the offer. Personally, I think he should have held out for more whipped cream.

Seriously, you are kidding, right?

[Brandon]

Sigh...

The Bills began attempting to trade up to take Posluszny with the 28th pick. Would you feel better if the Bills had given up picks 43 and 74 for pick 28 instead? If I had to guess, the Bills offered NE the same picks, as well as to the teams that followed. The infallible draft value chart probably would've given the green light on that trade.

They gave up the same picks they very likely offered starting with NE at 28 and got the same player. In the end, IT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE!

[patmoran2006]

I dont have a problem with trading up for POS.

I have a problem that we gave up 43 and 74 to move up NINE f'n spots.. We have no CB and no WR from this draft, in large because we moved up for POS, so he better be worth it or it was a terrible trade, period..

I find it VERY HARD to believe that a more experienced GM couldn't have gotten the deal done for 92 instead of 74, or as I suggested got Detroits 4th rounder (105) to make the trade more even..especially given the fact how desperate detroit was for more picks and able bodies.. It is a TOTALLY lopsided trade

[madness]

According to my point value chart, the 3rd round pick was worth 3 ice cream sundaes. Considering Matt Millen's love of ice cream, he could not turn down the offer. Personally, I think he should have held out for more whipped cream.

Seriously, you are kidding, right?

:lmao: Reddi-wip or cool whip?

[Jan Reimers]

I want us to line up that big bad Draft Value Chart at MLB. I bet that stud can really play.

[patmoran2006]

Sigh...

The Bills began attempting to trade up to take Posluszny with the 28th pick. Would you feel better if the Bills had given up picks 43 and 74 for pick 28 instead? If I had to guess, the Bills offered NE the same picks, as well as to the teams that followed. The infallible draft value chart probably would've given the green light on that trade.

They gave up the same picks they very likely offered starting with NE at 28 and got the same player. In the end, IT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE!
It makes all the difference in the world, because the teams in this league that get the players they covet while given up less than unpolished GMS do, are the teams that are going to be sitting at the top of the standings year after year.

[Stewie]

so it was a terrible trade because of some arbitrary point value system and because we could have taken some imaginary players that you belive would help the bills rather than the real player the bills general manager wanted.

right.

[patmoran2006]

I want us to line up that big bad Draft Value Chart at MLB. I bet that stud can really play.
I'd have a lot less of an issue with what we gave up for the trade, had we made some sort of EFFORT to improve a lousy and severly WEAK (literally) defense in the months leading up to the draft.

We lost three starters (nate, fletch, spikes) and resigned a guy who barely deserves to be a starter (kelsay) leaving IMO four holes to address via FA and draft.

We signed NONE and drafted ONE.

I hope POS is the next Urlacher.

[patmoran2006]

so it was a terrible trade because of some arbitrary point value system and because we could have taken some imaginary players that you belive would help the bills rather than the real player the bills general manager wanted.

right.
Are you saying DAvid Harris and Johnathan WAde are imaginary players? Because that's who we could have right now if we didnt overpay to move up for POs, and thats IF POS would even be off the board at #43.

I like Lynch, I love Wright, I'm weird about Edwards.

I'd have loved Pos to fall to us or gotten a more fair deal to get him, but it was a stupid trade.

[Dr. Lecter]

I dont have a problem with trading up for POS.

I have a problem that we gave up 43 and 74 to move up NINE f'n spots.. We have no CB and no WR from this draft, in large because we moved up for POS, so he better be worth it or it was a terrible trade, period..

I find it VERY HARD to believe that a more experienced GM couldn't have gotten the deal done for 92 instead of 74, or as I suggested got Detroits 4th rounder (105) to make the trade more even..especially given the fact how desperate detroit was for more picks and able bodies.. It is a TOTALLY lopsided trade

Geez, calm down. You are way over-reacting.

It is not TOTALLY lopsided.

Did you even read what I wrote? You want to debate based on facts and opinions. Like Paul said, the chart is (somewhat) arbitrary. Like I said, moving up was costly this year.

As for the experienced GM part, since none of fall into that category, who knows what could have been done?

Saying it is lopsided because of a missing 4th round pick is silly and is looking for a complaint.

[Brandon]

I dont have a problem with trading up for POS.

I have a problem that we gave up 43 and 74 to move up NINE f'n spots.. We have no CB and no WR from this draft, in large because we moved up for POS, so he better be worth it or it was a terrible trade, period..

I find it VERY HARD to believe that a more experienced GM couldn't have gotten the deal done for 92 instead of 74, or as I suggested got Detroits 4th rounder (105) to make the trade more even..especially given the fact how desperate detroit was for more picks and able bodies.. It is a TOTALLY lopsided trade

That's because you're placing far too much emphasis on the imaginary value assigned to a draft pick and not enough on the player.

I'm about 99% sure that, in his mind, Marv Levy did not trade the 43rd and 74th pick for the 34th pick. He traded those two picks not for another pick, but for Paul Posluszny. That was the value decision; *Paul Posluszny* was worth picks 43 and 74 to Marv Levy and the Bills, NOT the 'value' of the 34th pick.

Neither your approach nor his are necessarily wrong. Its just clear that Marv's philosophy is to emphasize the value of the player more than the pick.

As another way of stating this, if Marv viewed Posluszny as the 13th or 14th rated player on his board (which, from the rumors and his comments, is entirely possible), he was more than justified giving picks 43 and 74 for him. How many 'points' is the 13th or 14th pick worth on the draft value chart? That's how this trade should actually be evaluated.

[Dr. Lecter]

[/b]
It makes all the difference in the world, because the teams in this league that get the players they covet while given up less than unpolished GMS do, are the teams that are going to be sitting at the top of the standings year after year.

Did you see what Polian gave up?

Is he unpolished?

[Gunzlingr]

From what I have read prior to the draft, most GMs think the trade value chart is a joke anyway. Marv got the player he wanted. End of story. You armchair experts can second guess all you want, but you don't know any of the details.

[patmoran2006]

the one thing I WILL AGREE with is that it will take 2 years to see if this is a bad trade up..

But to me, in MY OPINION anyway, right now I'm pretty disgusted that we gave up that early third for him when I see who was still on this board.

To me this draft is cut in half, I LOVE half of it, and I absolutely despise the other half of it.

The committment to a running game is solid.. Taking a QB who MUST be at least two years from playing when we needed a CB or WR NOW is mind-blowing.

[HHURRICANE]

Edwards to me still looks like a luxury pick. Sorry, but he does. The Bills drafted like they plan to be in the playoffs in 2008 and not 2007. That's very frustrating to me.

[Devin]

You have to be kidding me.

[Dr. Lecter]

The committment to a running game is solid.. Taking a QB who MUST be at least two years from playing when we needed a CB or WR NOW is mind-blowing.

What WR or CB was available at that time that could play now?

Name them.

BTW, the draft is not just about now. It is also about the future and overall value. I know you are smart enough to know that.

BPA. Polian uses it. Ron Wolf did. It was a 3rd round pick. Why would the Bills find a 3rd round CB ready to play over last year's 3rd round pick? Think about the logic! There is NONE!

Who would the 3rd round CB play before? Thomas? Youboty? Greer? Leonhard?

[HHURRICANE]

the one thing I WILL AGREE with is that it will take 2 years to see if this is a bad trade up..

But to me, in MY OPINION anyway, right now I'm pretty disgusted that we gave up that early third for him when I see who was still on this board.

To me this draft is cut in half, I LOVE half of it, and I absolutely despise the other half of it.

The committment to a running game is solid.. Taking a QB who MUST be at least two years from playing when we needed a CB or WR NOW is mind-blowing.

This is all opinion but I think the Bills have had a hard time evaluating our WRs and TEs because they all spend time blocking or not being able to complete routes.

I think they stayed away from WRs especially because they weren't sure what they needed.

IMO.

[Dr. Lecter]

Edwards to me still looks like a luxury pick. Sorry, but he does. The Bills drafted like they plan to be in the playoffs in 2008 and not 2007. That's very frustrating to me.

Name the 3rd round player available that would have made the Bills an instant playoff team.

[Mad Bomber]

so it was a terrible trade because of some arbitrary point value system and because we could have taken some imaginary players that you belive would help the bills rather than the real player the bills general manager wanted.

right.

Exactly. The point values are completely arbitrary. They don't take into account the team's needs. Marv really wanted Pos; what if he didn't make the trade and Pos WASN'T on the board at 43?

[patmoran2006]

Name the 3rd player available that would have made the Bills an instant playoff team.
Lance Briggs.

[Jan Reimers]

I've got it! Next year, let's have our draft conducted by 6 geeks from MIT armed with 1,000 gigabytes of player evaluation data, a Cray Supercomputer and the Draft Value Chart.

That way we won't have to fall victim to the knowledge, instincts and experience of a 60-year football man and his staff.

(Sorry, but this Monday Morning Quarterback grousing about artificial points on a value chart and the loss of hypothetical players makes me a little crabby. Time for my prune juice.)

[Dr. Lecter]

Lance Briggs.

:rolleyes:

Since when can you draft current NFL players?

You know what I meant. I fixed it.

[Gunzlingr]

Lance Briggs.

:rofl:

If I start a blog, can I be a football expert like you?

[Mitchy moo]

Poz will be on the field at the start of the season and he is somebody that can make people not want to enter the backfield. I really don't think we would of picked up anyone else in the 4th round that I would say much the same about.

[Dr. Lecter]

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/nfl_draft_in_chaos_as_mel_kipers

Replace Mel Kiper with Pat Moran and it gets even funnier. :D

[Stewie]

Are you saying DAvid Harris and Johnathan WAde are imaginary players? Because that's who we could have right now if we didnt overpay to move up for POs, and thats IF POS would even be off the board at #43.

I like Lynch, I love Wright, I'm weird about Edwards.

I'd have loved Pos to fall to us or gotten a more fair deal to get him, but it was a stupid trade.

Sorry but you have no idea who would be available when, had things not transpired the way they did.

Your post is based on pure speculation. I understand that its the offseason, but at least try and come up with something tangible.

[patmoran2006]

:rofl:

If I start a blog, can I be a football expert like you?
Only if I can be "cool" like you and NEG someone about 10,000 rep points if they dont agree to give you all of their ZB..

[patmoran2006]

:rolleyes:

Since when can you draft current NFL players?

You know what I meant. I fixed it.
I woulda gave up that third and my first pick next year for a Proven Pro Bowler who's only in his mid-20's, experienced in a cover two and just entering his prime.

[HHURRICANE]

Name the 3rd round player available that would have made the Bills an instant playoff team.

Well seems like we agree that it wasn't Edwards.

After what would have been our 3rd round pick, 5 of the next 6 players were WRs. My guess is one of those guys probably would have made the starting lineup.

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(http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/team?team=pit&action=login&appRedirect=http%3A%2F%2Finsider.espn.go.com%2Fnfldraft%2Fdraft%2Ftracker%2Fteam%3Fteam%3Dpit)</TD><TD class=tablemed width=150>Matt Spaeth (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=11159&action=login&appRedirect=http%3A%2F%2Finsider.espn.go.com%2Fnfldraft%2Fdraft%2Ftracker%2Fplayer%3Fid%3D11159)</TD><TD class=tablemed>TE (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=7&action=login&appRedirect=http%3A%2F%2Finsider.espn.go.com%2Fnfldraft%2Fdraft%2Ftracker%2Fposition%3Fid%3D7)</TD><TD class=tablemed>MINNESOTA (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/school?id=2294&action=login&appRedirect=http%3A%2F%2Finsider.espn.go.com%2Fnfldraft%2Fdraft%2Ftracker%2Fschool%3Fid%3D2294)</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow><TD class=tablemed noWrap>14(78)</TD><TD class=tablemed>Green Bay 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[Gunzlingr]

Only if I can be "cool" like you and NEG someone about 10,000 rep points the day they sign up if they dont agree to give you all of their ZB..

Don't know about that, but you were obviously pegged as worthless poster then. Some things never change, I guess.

[Devin]

Only if I can be "cool" like you and NEG someone about 10,000 rep points if they dont agree to give you all of their ZB..

Negged.

[Dr. Lecter]

I doubt they would be starters.

CLeaning up TD's mess will take 2 years to show fruits and 3 years to be complete.

[patmoran2006]

We done....

THANK you all for responding, and proving my point (its a positive point for Bills fans actually)

I did something on PURPOSE and got EXACTLY what I was looking/hoping to get from the fans.. You'll see what Im talking about soon enough.

You ****ing NUMBSKULLS!!!!!!!!!I loved this draft..

Jesus christ.

[M]

Are you saying DAvid Harris and Johnathan WAde are imaginary players? Because that's who we could have right now if we didnt overpay to move up for POs, and thats IF POS would even be off the board at #43.

I'm not saying I know anything about the draft, because I don't. BUT, who's to say that OBD wanted either Harris or Wade? They wanted POS and they did everything they thought that had to at the time to get him.

[Dr. Lecter]

We done....

THANK you all for responding, and proving my point (its a positive point for Bills fans actually)

I did something on PURPOSE and got EXACTLY what I was looking/hoping to get from the fans.. You'll see what Im talking about soon enough.

You ****ing NUMBSKULLS!!!!!!!!!I loved this draft..

Jesus christ.

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

BTW, if you loved the draft you are a HOMER!!!!!!!!!!!!

PAT = HOMER :homer:

[Bulldog]

I dont have a problem with trading up for POS.

I have a problem that we gave up 43 and 74 to move up NINE f'n spots.. We have no CB and no WR from this draft, in large because we moved up for POS, so he better be worth it or it was a terrible trade, period..

I find it VERY HARD to believe that a more experienced GM couldn't have gotten the deal done for 92 instead of 74, or as I suggested got Detroits 4th rounder (105) to make the trade more even..especially given the fact how desperate detroit was for more picks and able bodies.. It is a TOTALLY lopsided trade

So if Poz turns into a pro bowler, who got screwed? Way, way, way to early to even try and judge this trade. I see what your saying about the value chart. But if Buffalo felt strongly enough about Poz to try and tarde back into the 1st round for him, this trade was a no brainer from their perspective. Besides, Millen is by far the worst GM in football, so I'll have to trust Levy on this one.

[patmoran2006]

LOL.. I am sooo not a homer.

[Jan Reimers]

God, Pat, if you're hearing those little voices again, take your medication.

[Brandon]

[/B]
It makes all the difference in the world, because the teams in this league that get the players they covet while given up less than unpolished GMS do, are the teams that are going to be sitting at the top of the standings year after year.

If the Bills had traded picks 43 and 74 to New England for pick 28 and selected Paul Posluszny, exactly HOW would it be any different? Again, its the same picks for the same player.

The point you are missing is this: the Bills valued the player they received, not the pick they received. As I stated earlier, if Paul Posluszny was rated as the 13th or 14th best player overall on their board, there is absolutely no question that they were justified giving up what they did for him, regardless of what the draft value chart says.

If he were rated 34th on their board, you might very well have a point.

[Dr. Lecter]

LOL.. I am sooo not a homer.

Sorry, you were positive about the draft. Being positive means you are now an official Junior Homer.

President Lecter welcomes you into the fold.

[patmoran2006]

Sorry, you were positive about the draft. Being positive means you are now an official Junior Homer.

President Lecter welcomes you into the fold.
I give credit where its due.. It was a good draft.

The main complainers are people who thought this team would be good this year. This is pretty much PROOF our front office doesnt even think that's gonig to happen.. 2 of our first 4 picks are guys that will likely warm the bench for at least one season. Barring injury, Edwards and Wright may not even see the field as rookies.

This is on the heels of a FO that did nothing in FA once 24 hours had passed.

Clearly, and you can see with this draft, this is a team that is hoping to contend in 2008/2009.

[Mitchy moo]

Sorry, you were positive about the draft. Being positive means you are now an official Junior Homer.

President Lecter welcomes you into the fold.

Offer him another glass of Kool-aid Dr. L.

[Ickybaluky]

I think you are missing the point, Pat.

The point is you are basing your argument on some draft chart that was created years ago by some assistant to Jimmy Johnson. The chart isn't a bible, but is used as a reference because there really isn't anything else out there to go by.

The point is, teams make trades based on value they can get back, and that value changes year-to-year based on the players available and each team's situation (which is fluid).

You can't use the chart to judge a trade, because you are assuming the other team is going to take less just because the chart says so. They weren't, so the Bills had to offer more because they wanted the player. The Bills were happy giving up the picks because they thing the player is worth it, based on all the time and effort they put into evaluating him and how he might help them. Time will tell if they are right or wrong.

The trade chart is irrelevant. A trade is made when both sides agree on compensation. There are no other factors.

However, if it makes you feel better, we can all chip in and make up the points to you. I have 20 points lying around that I'll happily contribute.

Anyone else?

[HAMMER]

This post#& is a big douche, as usual.

[Kelly The Dog]

Tell me something. If the Bills made a trade for a player that you hated as much as you like Poz, but did it for 130 points ahead on the draft chart, would you have started a thread about, yeah, i don't like the guy but what a steal they got with this trade?

[Ickybaluky]

According to Peter King, the draft value chart was come up with by Mike McCoy, a front-office assistant to Jimmy Johnson, in 1989.

Does that make him a HOF'er?

[Philagape]

The trade chart is irrelevant. A trade is made when both sides agree on compensation. There are no other factors.

:bf1:

Just like projections and mock drafts and pundits are irrelevant. In reality, a player is worth whatever a team spends on him until he proves otherwise on the field.

[Saratoga Slim]

I give credit where its due.. It was a good draft.

The main complainers are people who thought this team would be good this year. This is pretty much PROOF our front office doesnt even think that's gonig to happen.. 2 of our first 4 picks are guys that will likely warm the bench for at least one season. Barring injury, Edwards and Wright may not even see the field as rookies.

This is on the heels of a FO that did nothing in FA once 24 hours had passed.

Clearly, and you can see with this draft, this is a team that is hoping to contend in 2008/2009.
I can't say I disagree with you on this one.

I think we are trying to win more games this year. If we weren't worried about putting a decent team on the field this year I don't think we would have spent our first rounder on Lynch.

However, I think you're probably right: the rest of the draft shows that our emphasis right now is about building a core for the team they want to make a deep playoff run in 2008. Winning this year is probably the secondary goal.

I'm OK with that. And if you are OK with it Pat, it should also make you feel a little better about the fact that we didn't go bonkers on the FA market after solidifying our OL. Next spring will be the time where we go after a Briggs or similar high profile FA to fill in whatever remaining holes we have.

[patmoran2006]

The guys I wanted in FA weren't high priced guys and they could've went a long way towards making this team a playoff contender THIS YEAR.

[Saratoga Slim]

[quote=patmoran2006Barring injury, Edwards and Wright may not even see the field as rookies.

[/quote]

Edwards NEVER seeing the field is a best case scenario for us, b/c it will mean JP is getting the job done and staying healthy.

[madness]

This just in...

All 32 teams are outraged that that all their draft picks won't immediately start. Owners rallying to boycott 2008 rookie draft and start a yearly fantasy draft. Players for the fantasy draft to be made up later.

[ddaryl]

It's a friggin value chart...

EXAMPLE:

If someone offered me the same amount I paid for my house I would turn them down. The house is worth much more then what I got a mortgage for now.


If someone offered me what the house is worth I would turn them down, because the value of homes around me have increased along side of mine and buying another home would not have provided me with any extra income to buy a nicer house.

If someone offered me more then what the house is worth I would consider it and maybe make a move, because now I can upgrade or make a parallel move and have extra coin in pocket.


bottom line is the value chart sets value, what it takes to pry a draft pick away form another team requires a team to sacrafice there spot... in return they are going to want more then just value to make such a move... It happened all day long during this years draft.

Pat if you are ever going ot be a serious journalist you need to get away fromthe tunnel vision you view things with.

[billsburgh]

We done....

THANK you all for responding, and proving my point (its a positive point for Bills fans actually)

I did something on PURPOSE and got EXACTLY what I was looking/hoping to get from the fans.. You'll see what Im talking about soon enough.

You ****ing NUMBSKULLS!!!!!!!!!I loved this draft..

Jesus christ.
:spam:

[ShadowHawk7]

I have a problem that we gave up 43 and 74 to move up NINE f'n spots.. I find it VERY HARD to believe that a more experienced GM couldn't have gotten the deal done for 92 instead of 74, or as I suggested got Detroits 4th rounder (105) to make the trade more even

Me too.
Better negotiations could of been the difference to adding rock solid depth at LB or CB in round 3. The fact that Marv was actually trying to get back into rd 1 for Poz, but failed, helped calm me a bit, but still.
We made two mistakes this draft in our thought process:

1. We got anxious and wasted a lot of value in trading up 9 spots
2. We thought we could afford luxury picks in rounds 3, 4, and 7 anyways.

[Michael82]

I knew the real patmoran would come back! :ill:


why the **** couldn't you stay like the post day 1 pat? :mad: This is getting ****ing ridiculous. The truth is...the Cardinals screwed us in the deal. They moved up only 5 spots and gave the 105th pick overall. The Bills were looking to move up two times as far. So those 9 spots cost them a bit more. 92 wouldn't have done it. :shakeno: And Marv didn't want to give a bunch of picks, so he quickly gave number 74 overall. You forget that Marv had Poz ranked as his second best player on their draft chart. Hell, they were anxious to draft Poz and were trying to move into the bottom of the first round for him. I have no problem with the trade.

[Michael82]

We done....

THANK you all for responding, and proving my point (its a positive point for Bills fans actually)

I did something on PURPOSE and got EXACTLY what I was looking/hoping to get from the fans.. You'll see what Im talking about soon enough.

You ****ing NUMBSKULLS!!!!!!!!!I loved this draft..

Jesus christ.
:negrep:

[wbat27]

pat moran i don't agree i like it, you have to remember its not as easy as it is on madden. ha ha ha

[Coach Sal]

The main complainers are people who thought this team would be good this year. This is pretty much PROOF our front office doesnt even think that's gonig to happen.. 2 of our first 4 picks are guys that will likely warm the bench for at least one season. Barring injury, Edwards and Wright may not even see the field as rookies.

This is on the heels of a FO that did nothing in FA once 24 hours had passed.

Clearly, and you can see with this draft, this is a team that is hoping to contend in 2008/2009.

I absolutely and totally disgree with you.

It's actually proof that the FO believes the guys they drafted last year, plus a lot of the other players they inherited that they kept, are ready to step up and play significant roles in helping this team win THIS YEAR!

Why is it that everyone always wants the "available" player from another team instead of actually coaching and developing the guys we drafted last year or the year before for the same purpose (becoming a starter and contributor)? Because if a team doesn't do that (ANY team), then they obviously don't have much faith in their own abilities as coaches and managers. Their jobs aren't to go out and coach everyone else's players, it's to coach their own! And the Bils have players they've been coaching for over a year now - with the same assistants, in the same systems - that they obviously feel are ready to become players and help them win.

This whole idea that everything the FO did last weekend means they don't think they can win this year is a total insult to everything that same front office did LAST April by drafting nine players...each and every one of whom they kept on the roster for the entire season! That wasn't by accident.

[acehole]

That was my beef with this draft early on.... I was also upset last year for the same reason. Not the players picked just where we picked them. In the end the Edwards and other picks were all slated higher so it kind of balanced out as the late steals in Youboty/Simpson. If the FA DT we got works out then I guess it all comes out in the wash. I think that Safty we got will back up Ellison and possibly Crowell if he can gain ten pounds. I still think we are thin at CB and wished we could of drafted one...but hey thats the way it goes.


A mere 24 hours ago, I was delighted with the draft effort put forth by Marv Levy and the Buffalo Bills. In some regards, those views won’t change. The Bills bettered their backfield in a very big way. Marshawn Lynch has top ten running back written all over him in this league. While you can’t assume anybody coming out of college is the next Marshall Faulk, he positively has the ability to ignite fair comparisons. Dwayne Wright in round four was a steal. At worst he’ll be a bruising backup that comes in and punishes tired defenders. Potentially, the Bills could have the best running back tandem in the NFL within the next few years and for many to come. MORE.... (http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Patrick_Moran/2007/05/01/Upon_Further_Review_The_Bills_Got_Ripped_Off)

----------------------------------
Gonna go out on a limb and say this won't be well received here. Im also going to go out on FAR less of a limb and suggest 95% of everyone will not pay any attention the facts, numbers or subject matter. and it will become an endless assault of PERSONAL stabs per the norm..... Oh well, I speak my mind when I blog, whether it's appreciated it or not.. For the other unbiased readers who like to talk about topics, enjoy (objectively I hope)

[Kelly The Dog]

One must believe, if not bet every cent that they could get their hands on, that the initial trade offer the Bills gave the Lions was for the second of the third round picks. It's almost impossible to believe that the Bills started the call/negotiation with the Bills own #3 as their offer, to move up nine spots in the second round.

The Lions obviously turned that down.

The only two possible scenarios left, both of which are pure speculation as to how it transpired, would be for the Bills to play hardball and be willing to walk away from the trade and not get Poz, hoping the Lions would cave at the end. Or for them to say, okay, we really want this Poz guy so we will give you our own #3.

It's quite possible that the Bills caved first, and that ultimately the Lions would have accepted the latter #3. And then, in hindsight, it was a mistake. But no one knows that except the Lions, who aren't talking. But there's a lot greater chance, IMO, because they weren't the ones that initiated the offer or wanted the player, that they would have simply said no and kept their #2 or traded it to someone else.

[John Doe]

Taking a QB who MUST be at least two years from playing when we needed a CB or WR NOW is mind-blowing.

I guess that you don't remember how difficult it was to replace Jim Kelly.

You complain about going against an arbitrary value guide, and then complain about selecting a QB who was a great value pick?

Not very consistent.

[Throne Logic]

I give credit where its due.. It was a good draft.

The main complainers are people who thought this team would be good this year. This is pretty much PROOF our front office doesnt even think that's gonig to happen.. 2 of our first 4 picks are guys that will likely warm the bench for at least one season. Barring injury, Edwards and Wright may not even see the field as rookies.

This is on the heels of a FO that did nothing in FA once 24 hours had passed.

Clearly, and you can see with this draft, this is a team that is hoping to contend in 2008/2009.

The only thing that is clear is that we, the fans, clearly don't have an ear in the strategy room at OBD.

First of all, the points system is just an arbitrary tool created to help teams get trades underway. Any craftsman knows exactly when and how to utilize a tool.
Any team would be stupid to put this arbitrary "VALUE SYSTEM" above taking a player that they have spent countless hours evaluating and want on their team. Two starters in two rounds HAS TO BE considered a good day. Especially when they got two guys that they liked all along! Clearly Marv and Co. don't put too much weight on this "system".

Now, what makes you so sure that the front office is done? Perhaps they have plans to pursue other options in trades. Perhaps they know something we don't about player improvement, i.e. McCargo. How would we know how he's doing at this point? Do you know someone watching the rehab work? And what about Youboty? What data do you have to say that he won't be a more capable starter than anyone on the draftboard this past weekend? Have you inside knowledge on how his offseason workouts are going?

[TigerJ]

I know the draft value chart is a guideline not a rule. It stands to reason that the team that initiates the conversation about a trade involving draft choices is going to get the short end of the stick. My observation is that it's fairly easy to move up, just expensive. That seems to be the reason in the first round that a lot of teams were rumored to want to move down. If you don't have one player you really have to have, you're better off moving down and trying to get the better deal with a team that wants to move up. Relatively few teams actually did move down, because the teams that might have been interested in moving up didn't want to pay the price. There aren't that many Mike Ditkas managing NFL teams. If the Bills thought that Posluszny was such a good choice that they had to have him, and they were pretty well convinced that he would not have been available more than a couple picks later, then it was an acceptable trade. I grumbled some about giving up that third round pick, but I can live with it if Posluszny lives up to the hype.