Marv Knows More than Me, and Us.. So "trust" him.

[patmoran2006]

Everytime someone has the audacity to actually criticize Marv Levy or someone in the front office over a draft pick, a trade, a free agent signing or free agent departure.. It's the same TEXTBOOK response.

"Marv Levy knows more about football than you do, I trust him."

Or
"If you think you know so much why don't you become a NFL GM."

Well, Marv Levy knows more than the fans.. Guess what, so does Tom Donahoe..

That didn't stop him from taking Mike Williams over Bryant McKinnie in 2002 did it? Or did it stop him from taking Josh Reed over Deon Branch in the next round?

Did that stop Marv Levy from signing Matt Bowen and Tutan Reyes last year? Did it stop him from giving Craig Nall $1.3 million just to sign his name and be a #3 QB last year, only to come back with so much confidence in him we take a QB on day one of the draft this year with all our other needs?

GMs make mistakes just as well, and the teams that are consistently playoff teams come courtesy of the GM's that make the fewest mistakes.

This organization has a decade-long run of consistent mistakes made by the front office, so until this team wins double digits and/or makes the playoffs, people have every right and reason in the world to question/analyze/poke/criticize any and every move we make or don't make.

Marv Levy is smarter than Me.. and OP.. and Statman.. And everyone else.. Thanks for the revelation.

And this is coming from someone that overall liked our draft.

If it's not a personal pot-shot taken at you personally, then you should either respect the OPINIONS of others, or simply ignore it.

This team has a LONGGGGGGGG way to go and until you get an owner that will give Levy the tools (god willing he's around that long) to compete with NE and the Jets, you're going to see a constant cycle of young players coming in, developing and then leaving for a bigger payday while we bring in the next crop of young kids.

Ralph Wilson running this team in 2007 is starting to become like the Bills being a college team. Four years and your out; unless your mediocre like Kelsay and Josh Reed; then you can get slightly below market rate and stay for another 4 years.

If Ralph Wilson DOESNT own the Bills in 2-3 years before Losman, Evans, etc contracts runs out; this organization (provided the owner stays in Buffalo) will have a chance to compete for a title. If not, get used to the same rebuilding crap cycle we've seen 2.5 times in 8 years.

I don't care if I'm the most popular or hated person on this entire board, but this is a talented team with decent coaching, and a smart GM. But until Captain WhineBags WIlson is no longer pulling the trigger, it won't matter one bit.

[shelby]

i've been on this board since the beginning, and there always seem to be 2 different and opposing types of posters who divide themselves on basic issues.
The issue may be "R.J. vs. Flutie", or "Donahoe sucks vs. Donahoe doesn't suck" or "Ralph is cheap vs. Ralph isn't cheap", or "Fire Jauron vs. Don't Fire Jauron", or "Losman sucks vs. Losman doesn't suck", or "JPD Homers Vs. Realists".....call it what you like, there will always be a lively and spirited debate between the two groups. And that is what makes this message board so interesting, as long as all the parties involved can debate without childish personal attacks and inflammatory posting. It is impossible to make everyone accept your opinions as their own, no matter how eloquently they are presented. As long as we can all be respectful in our disagreements, the discussion is worthwhile and informative.

Just a gentle reminder.

[SABURZFAN]

i've been on this board since the beginning, and there always seem to be 2 different and opposing types of posters who divide themselves on basic issues.
The issue may be "R.J. vs. Flutie", or "Donahoe sucks vs. Donahoe doesn't suck" or "Ralph is cheap vs. Ralph isn't cheap", or "Fire Jauron vs. Don't Fire Jauron", or "Losman sucks vs. Losman doesn't suck", or "JPD Homers Vs. Realists".....call it what you like, there will always be a lively and spirited debate between the two groups. And that is what makes this message board so interesting, as long as all the parties involved can debate without childish personal attacks and inflammatory posting. It is impossible to make everyone accept your opinions as their own, no matter how eloquently they are presented. As long as we can all be respectful in our disagreements, the discussion is worthwhile and informative.

Just a gentle reminder.



don't forget The Lickers. :couch:

[shelby]

i thought they were grouped under the heading of JPD Homers.
You get my point SAB.:club:

[SABURZFAN]

i thought they were grouped under the heading of JPD Homers.
You get my point SAB.:club:



:ontome:

[SoCalBillsFan]

Plenty of people who know more than us have ben wrong before.

I agree, I don't like the "trust so and so" defense. The whole point of message boards is to talk about the decisions.

[patmoran2006]

i've been on this board since the beginning, and there always seem to be 2 different and opposing types of posters who divide themselves on basic issues.
The issue may be "R.J. vs. Flutie", or "Donahoe sucks vs. Donahoe doesn't suck" or "Ralph is cheap vs. Ralph isn't cheap", or "Fire Jauron vs. Don't Fire Jauron", or "Losman sucks vs. Losman doesn't suck", or "JPD Homers Vs. Realists".....call it what you like, there will always be a lively and spirited debate between the two groups. And that is what makes this message board so interesting, as long as all the parties involved can debate without childish personal attacks and inflammatory posting. It is impossible to make everyone accept your opinions as their own, no matter how eloquently they are presented. As long as we can all be respectful in our disagreements, the discussion is worthwhile and informative.

Just a gentle reminder.
Absolutely SPOT ON..

I dont agree with the "Homer" posts on here most of the time, but I respect 99% of them anyway.

[raphael120]

How about let's not say "trust marv" but say...

<h3>Marv, prove them wrong!</h3>

[jmb1099]

I mean no disrespect to anyone, including Pat when I say this, but this thread is meant to do nothing but create friction. This thread actually has nothing to do with ralph and his spending habbits, it may look like it does, but it doesn't.

Pat...you write well, but your passion isn't football, your passion is yourself.

[jmb1099]

Ralph spent money on Kelly, Smith, Talley, Reed, Thomas etc and paid some of the largest contracts seen at that time.
Ralph continues to spend money on guys like Dockery and he will continue to spend money. If he is guilty of anything it is bringing in the wrong people to manage the team and its operations. Marv looks to be a step in the right direction as does Jauron.

[patmoran2006]

No.. My passion is Buffalo Bills football and as someone who was fortunate to enough to come up when the Bills were a dynasty in the making, It's beyond frustrating to me to see us spin our wheels in countless cycles because we have an owner who can't/refuses to get it right.

I'll be the first to openly admit it: I am as Anti Ralph Wilson as it gets.. I certainly am not ignorant enough to not respect what he's done for Buffalo and I'm keenly aware that he could've easily moved this team more than once.

But for YEARS now, dating back as far as the Doug Flutie days (the box seats) the fans, WNY and the NFL has been held HOSTAGE by Wilson and his relentless crying and threats to move the team.

He whines to death about the CBA.. He gets HIS way with the increased revenue sharing, and he STILL implements a cash to cap policy, one in which ONLY the Bills implement, and mind you we are a small market but NOT the only small market team in this league.

And while I think it was intelligent to use a Senator to help with Goodell in terms of Revenue Sharing and stuff to keep the Bills "economically viable" in Western New YOrk, it's rather embarassing that he has to use a Senator to try and use a Senator to help us with our NFL Schedule.

90% of my rants against the Bills have to do with Wilson, whether masked or not.

This Cash to Cap only IMPEDES this team and will CONTINUE To do so..It already did impede us this year. After taking care of some OL business, we didnt have the money on our OWN salary cap to go out and get some MUCH needed defensive help, help that even on draft day could only come via POZ.. This despite the fact that we are still among the top 10% teams in the ENTIRE league in terms of "real" salary cap space. Are you going to tell me this team couldn't possibly contend had they forked out some dough for Nick Harper and Cato June on this defense? BTW, neither of which costed anything near Adalius Thomas or Joey Porter money.

And for the DURATION of his time left as owner, I guarentee you it will be the same.. yeah, we MIGHT pay Evans of we might pay Losman.. but when we do, it will come at the expense of either signing NOBODY else or even worse, cutting some of our own valuable guys to fit into cash to cap...

Whatever, I have my views and Pro-Wilson guys have theirs.. I wish no physical harm or death to a 87-year old man who for decades kept this team here; but at this point whether its by his own choice or not, I just really hope he sells the team to someone who's interest in money will be matched by an interest in winning championships

[patmoran2006]

Ralph spent money on Kelly, Smith, Talley, Reed, Thomas etc and paid some of the largest contracts seen at that time.
Ralph continues to spend money on guys like Dockery and he will continue to spend money. If he is guilty of anything it is bringing in the wrong people to manage the team and its operations. Marv looks to be a step in the right direction as does Jauron.
Wilson has and will continue to spend whatever the "cash to the cap" is.. he has stated so and will continue. Even with the revenue sharing increase.

Whether 1/3 of that is spent on ONE player alone (Dockery) or Levy is forced to sign a dozen jackoffs. Levy's limit is cash to cap..

The plus side is every year we'll be among the league's best in salary cap room.. THe downside is what you've seen with this team over the past 18 months is what you'll see as long as he's the owner. And if that's the case, last season's 4-straight blackout run is nothing compared to what it will be like in the future.

[Night Train]

I mean no disrespect to anyone, including Pat when I say this, but this thread is meant to do nothing but create friction. This thread actually has nothing to do with ralph and his spending habbits, it may look like it does, but it doesn't.

Pat...you write well, but your passion isn't football, your passion is yourself.


:bf1:

[patmoran2006]

I mean no disrespect to anyone, including Pat when I say this, but this thread is meant to do nothing but create friction. This thread actually has nothing to do with ralph and his spending habbits, it may look like it does, but it doesn't.

Pat...you write well, but your passion isn't football, your passion is yourself.
Let me assure I am much higher (homer) on the Bills than most people think, when it comes to talent. This team is in the upper half in the NFL in talent.

But winning teams like NE and Indy have organizations that start with WINNER owners and trickle down. We do not have that.

[gr8slayer]

Until Marv screws up and we lose more games than the previous year I trust him.

[X-Era]

Everytime someone has the audacity to actually criticize Marv Levy or someone in the front office over a draft pick, a trade, a free agent signing or free agent departure.. It's the same TEXTBOOK response.

"Marv Levy knows more about football than you do, I trust him."

Or
"If you think you know so much why don't you become a NFL GM."

Well, Marv Levy knows more than the fans.. Guess what, so does Tom Donahoe..

That didn't stop him from taking Mike Williams over Bryant McKinnie in 2002 did it? Or did it stop him from taking Josh Reed over Deon Branch in the next round?

Did that stop Marv Levy from signing Matt Bowen and Tutan Reyes last year? Did it stop him from giving Craig Nall $1.3 million just to sign his name and be a #3 QB last year, only to come back with so much confidence in him we take a QB on day one of the draft this year with all our other needs?

GMs make mistakes just as well, and the teams that are consistently playoff teams come courtesy of the GM's that make the fewest mistakes.

This organization has a decade-long run of consistent mistakes made by the front office, so until this team wins double digits and/or makes the playoffs, people have every right and reason in the world to question/analyze/poke/criticize any and every move we make or don't make.

Marv Levy is smarter than Me.. and OP.. and Statman.. And everyone else.. Thanks for the revelation.

And this is coming from someone that overall liked our draft.

If it's not a personal pot-shot taken at you personally, then you should either respect the OPINIONS of others, or simply ignore it.

This team has a LONGGGGGGGG way to go and until you get an owner that will give Levy the tools (god willing he's around that long) to compete with NE and the Jets, you're going to see a constant cycle of young players coming in, developing and then leaving for a bigger payday while we bring in the next crop of young kids.

Ralph Wilson running this team in 2007 is starting to become like the Bills being a college team. Four years and your out; unless your mediocre like Kelsay and Josh Reed; then you can get slightly below market rate and stay for another 4 years.

If Ralph Wilson DOESNT own the Bills in 2-3 years before Losman, Evans, etc contracts runs out; this organization (provided the owner stays in Buffalo) will have a chance to compete for a title. If not, get used to the same rebuilding crap cycle we've seen 2.5 times in 8 years.

I don't care if I'm the most popular or hated person on this entire board, but this is a talented team with decent coaching, and a smart GM. But until Captain WhineBags WIlson is no longer pulling the trigger, it won't matter one bit.
1) Marv knows more than you do about football- true statement, sorry if the truth hurts

2) This team has a lonnnnngggggggggg way to go- opinion, but not fact. Cannot be substantiated through direct evidence or proven to be true, therefore the opposite is every bit as plausible, we have a short way to go. Its a matter for debate but will be proven on the field.

3) Ralph Wilson will not give Levy the tools to compete with NE- opinion, but not fact. Levy himself spoke on Randy Moss and said that they had no discussions about obtaining him. The team spent lots and lots of money on the OL, money that Ralph Wilson pays for. The evidence shows that Ralph will pay top dollar for free agents, fact. Whether the free agents fit your criteria for making the Bills competitive with the Pats is a matter of speculation and opinion, not fact.

4) as to whether our current owner, GM, coaches, or team is going to the Superbowl is a matter for fortune tellers and prophets, also not fact.

So the recap, your comments are long on opinion and short on fact. The facts dont support your opinions.

Now, how much weight should we actually give your opinion based on those facts...or lack thereof?

Your entitled to an opinion, free to voice it, and although I dont agree, Im glad your here to state a contrasting opinion to be honest. The diversity of opinion makes this board great.

But to get angry, frustrated, or whatever word you choose to describe the tone of your posts over counter opinions is counter productive. Because the facts your opinion is no more or less valid than anyone elses here.