This Year: It's Time for Marv to be held accountable

[patmoran2006]

Now while I know that Marv Levy is treated like a God by fans of the Buffalo Bills (rightfully so due to his head coaching career), the bottom line is that in 2007 it’s time for him to be held accountable one way or the other based on how this football team does. The honeymoon is over and so are the Tom Donahoe excuses as well. Levy’s now had two offseasons and two drafts to improve this team ... A good GM puts the kind of team together that gets better each year, not the kind of team that is lucky to match a losing-win total of the year before. Winning 7 games in his first year is acceptable. NOt improving in 2007 is not.


<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
It’s almost taboo to mention anything Levy ever does negatively, but the bottom line is that in his two offseasons of being GM of the Bills, he’s made some curious decisions that potentially could set this football team back even further than they were the year before.
<o:p></o:p>
Among them…

Trading up for Paul Poslusny. By moving up for Poz and drafting a QB Project (Edwards) on day one, Levy basically drafted one player on day one who will contribute instead of potentially three. Poz doesn’t just need to be a starter: for this move he needs to be an impact player.
Trading up for John McCargo last year. Most people didn’t have McCargo graded as a first rounder, Levy did. Granted he was hurt last year, but this year he needs to show he was worth losing a valuable day one pick over.
By not signing a FA Wr or drafting one, Levy showed a lot of confidence in Peerless Price as a legit #2. He needs to step up.
Langston Walker, despite being a part of the worst OL ever in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Oakland</st1:City></st1:place>, was given a huge vote of confidence here, and $25 million to boot.
If it’s not strictly a “financial move”, then Levy concluded that Takeo Spikes’ career as an impact player is over, and dumped him off to <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Philadelphia</st1:place></st1:City> for a one-dimensional rotational DT. Hope that Spikes’ best days are indeed behind him.
Signed Tutan Reyes and Matt Bowens, a pair of waste products who were both cut after only one year and zero positive contributions.
Made Larry Tripplett his first big free agent signing. Last year, Tripplett grossly underachieved. This year his cap hit is $3.785 million (according to clump). That’s an awful lot of money for someone with 2.5 sacks and zero impact against the run.
Given a one-dimensional DE like Chris Kelsay $24 million, including nearly $13 million in guaranteed money. It might not happen, but it’s a lock that this will sooner or later (and probably sooner) prompt Aaron Schobel’s agent to demand more money—which as a Pro Bowler he deserves.
Knowing our schedule is stacked with teams possessing great passing games and WR’s, <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Buffalo</st1:place></st1:City> failed to sign or draft a single cornerback this offseason. We’re putting our pass defense in the hands of Terrence McGee, Ashton Youboty and Kiwaukee Thomas at the corner spot.<o:p></o:p>
Among a couple of other “curious” decisions that have been made.
<o:p></o:p>

Josh Reed, a clear-cut backup WR, is counting $2.7 million against the cap this year.
Ryan Denney, a rotational DE, is making $3.2 million this year against the cap.
Coy Wire is not only still on the roster, but counts $1.65 million against the cap.
The most puzzling of all… Craig Nall was given $1.3 million just to sign his name on the dotted line. He couldn’t even beat out Holcomb at any point last year. This year, we draft a QB on day one, likely keeping Nall as a permanent clipboard holder. By the way, he’s counting $1.73 million against the cap this year, ABSURD for a third stringer.<o:p></o:p>
Now if the Bills improve and are better than last year, then Levy deserves a lot of the credit. But if they regress.. again. Then it’s time that the general manager of the football team starts being held accountable for this mess or an organization. Even if his name is the much beloved Marv Levy.

[raphael120]

Good, honest men even make mistakes, and Marv is not bullet proof. Hey, nothing can take away the fact of getting us to 4 super bowls in one year and pretty much giving the Bills their only lime light since the 90s. He's a great person, and I love him. Again, no one is perfect. And if we DO regress this season, I don't think we'll be calling for Marv's head, but I think Marv will know when he's overstayed his welcome. He's not like Donadope, he'll know if he can't cut it, then he'll leave. I mean, he's really old, as is Ralph...whether we like it or not, theyll not be around much longer.

[TacklingDummy]

The most puzzling of all… Craig Nall was given $1.3 million just to sign his name on the dotted line. He couldn’t even beat out Holcomb at any point last year. This year, we draft a QB on day one, likely keeping Nall as a permanent clipboard holder. By the way, he’s counting $1.73 million against the cap this year, ABSURD for a third stringer.<o:p></o:p>

Wow, overpaying for a 3rd stringer. Ralph Wilson is cheap.

[ddaryl]

no

it'll take at least a full 2 years to see where this team is going and where real weaknesses remain.

I want to see what happens this year and what we do in the offseason of 2008 to counter our weaknesses and then I will be able to see how the plan is working.

Mid 2008 season is when I believe we can start to analyze and criticize Marv's plan IMO

[patmoran2006]

I didnt call for Marv's head, and I didnt say he SUCKS as a GM either.. I pointed out some of the moves he's made and for now I will only call them "curious".. EVERY GM makes mistaks, even Bill Polian.. the better GM's who run better organizations make fewer of them, and that's a fact..

but at the conclusion of this season, if this team does NOT improve, then its time for Levy to start being held accountable, and that's the subject of my post.

[raphael120]

I didnt call for Marv's head, and I didnt say he SUCKS as a GM either.. I pointed out some of the moves he's made and for now I will only call them "curious".. EVERY GM makes mistaks, even Bill Polian.. the better GM's who run better organizations make fewer of them, and that's a fact..

but at the conclusion of this season, if this team does NOT improve, then its time for Levy to start being held accountable, and that's the subject of my post.

You're totally right. Him and perhaps Modrak. But I think Marv is the one making a lot more of the decisions with Modrak presenting him the options. He should be accountable and he will be.

If we do regress this year, I think everyone saying the "Trust Marv" should STFU.

[OpIv37]

Now while I know that Marv Levy is treated like a God by fans of the Buffalo Bills (rightfully so due to his head coaching career), the bottom line is that in 2007 it’s time for him to be held accountable one way or the other based on how this football team does. The honeymoon is over and so are the Tom Donahoe excuses as well. Levy’s now had two offseasons and two drafts to improve this team ... A good GM puts the kind of team together that gets better each year, not the kind of team that is lucky to match a losing-win total of the year before. Winning 7 games in his first year is acceptable. NOt improving in 2007 is not.


<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
It’s almost taboo to mention anything Levy ever does negatively, but the bottom line is that in his two offseasons of being GM of the Bills, he’s made some curious decisions that potentially could set this football team back even further than they were the year before.
<o:p></o:p>
Among them…

Trading up for Paul Poslusny. By moving up for Poz and drafting a QB Project (Edwards) on day one, Levy basically drafted one player on day one who will contribute instead of potentially three. Poz doesn’t just need to be a starter: for this move he needs to be an impact player.
Trading up for John McCargo last year. Most people didn’t have McCargo graded as a first rounder, Levy did. Granted he was hurt last year, but this year he needs to show he was worth losing a valuable day one pick over.
By not signing a FA Wr or drafting one, Levy showed a lot of confidence in Peerless Price as a legit #2. He needs to step up.
Langston Walker, despite being a part of the worst OL ever in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Oakland</st1:City></st1:place>, was given a huge vote of confidence here, and $25 million to vote.
If it’s not strictly a “financial move”, then Levy concluded that Takeo Spikes’ career as an impact player is over, and dumped him off to <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Philadelphia</st1:place></st1:City> for a one-dimensional rotational DT. Hope that Spikes’ best days are indeed behind him.
Signed Tutan Reyes and Matt Bowens, a pair of waste products who were both cut after only one year and zero positive contributions.
Made Larry Tripplett his first big free agent signing. Last year, Tripplett grossly underachieved. This year his cap hit is $3.785 million (according to clump). That’s an awful lot of money for someone with 2.5 sacks and zero impact against the run.
Given a one-dimensional DE like Chris Kelsay $24 million, including nearly $13 million in guaranteed money. It might not happen, but it’s a lock that this will sooner or later (and probably sooner) prompt Aaron Schobel’s agent to demand more money—which as a Pro Bowler he deserves.
Knowing our schedule is stacked with teams possessing great passing games and WR’s, <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Buffalo</st1:place></st1:City> failed to sign or draft a single cornerback this offseason. We’re putting our pass defense in the hands of Terrence McGee, Ashton Youboty and Kiwaukee Thomas at the corner spot.<o:p></o:p>
Among a couple of other “curious” decisions that have been made.
<o:p></o:p>

Josh Reed, a clear-cut backup WR, is counting $2.7 million against the cap this year.
Ryan Denney, a rotational DE, is making $3.2 million this year against the cap.
Coy Wire is not only still on the roster, but counts $1.65 million against the cap.
The most puzzling of all… Craig Nall was given $1.3 million just to sign his name on the dotted line. He couldn’t even beat out Holcomb at any point last year. This year, we draft a QB on day one, likely keeping Nall as a permanent clipboard holder. By the way, he’s counting $1.73 million against the cap this year, ABSURD for a third stringer.<o:p></o:p>
Now if the Bills improve and are better than last year, then Levy deserves a lot of the credit. But if they regress.. again. Then it’s time that the general manager of the football team starts being held accountable for this mess or an organization. Even if his name is the much beloved Marv Levy.

I agree with the majority of this. I would have preferred using the 3b on Poz instead of the 3a, but I still support the decision because at that point he was the best option at LB and we were desperate for LB's (and in a way, still are).

I definitely agree that the Edwards pick is questionable.

I'd say signing Price to a $10 million to start with was questionable. Also, both him and Reed have backloaded contracts that will hit us hard in '08, so even though it's really early, WR is looking like our biggest concern for next off-season. At least one, and possibly both, will be gone in '08. Hopefully one of them steps it up and makes himself worth the contract- then we can look for a #3 instead of a #2, but I doubt it.

And you forgot Robert Royal. Last year's FA class as a whole was pretty bad- Fowler and K Thomas were ok, A Thomas was a pleasant surprise- the rest has been a big disappointment so far.

[casdhf]

It's clear that we're not going to spend to the cap, so who cares what the 3rd string whatever is making.

[SquishDaFish]

Well Mr Negativity while I do agree with some of your post I dont totally agree. So far I think Marv is doing a fine job. O-Line has always been a problem since he left coaching I see that progressing. Talk to me next offseason about McCargo and maybe Ill agree with you or alot of people are going to eat crow. Every GM makes mistakes noone is perfect. But I agree with Ddaryl talk to me next offseason if we are not filling the remaining problems then Ill totally agree with you.

[Brandon]

Most of it I agree with. I still think that Marv made the right call on Posluszny.

As far as the salary cap impacts of guys like Denney, Wire and Reed, one thing to keep in mind: the salary cap is now around $110 million. With the 51 highest paid players counting against the cap, this means that the average player accounts for a little over $2M of room. In that light, those three guys are actually a decent deal for a little less than $8M in cap space. They give the Bills three solid contributors for around 7% of their total cap allocation.

[OpIv37]

It's clear that we're not going to spend to the cap, so who cares what the 3rd string whatever is making.

well, if they're only willing to spend a certain amount of money, there are better ways to allocate it- ie, rather than giving Coy $1.65 million, give him the league min (I believe $675,000) and use the extra million on a better starter or better second stringer. Or find someone equal to Wire's ability who will play for the league min.

The end result is the same bottom line, but better starters or better second string depth.

[patmoran2006]

I never said NOW. . I said at the END OF THE SEASON..

and as for Marv's "attention to the lines" that Donahoe never gave us..

Here's a FACT..
Of the 8 Picks in rounds 1-4 the Bills have made with Marv Levy in charge over the past two years. We have taken exactly ONE defensive lineman and exactly ZERO offensive linemen.

That's 1-for-8 total... So that's one thing about Levy being so different than TD that go out the window right now.

[Stewie]

jesus christ, it never ends.

[PromoTheRobot]

I didnt call for Marv's head, and I didnt say he SUCKS as a GM either.. I pointed out some of the moves he's made and for now I will only call them "curious".. EVERY GM makes mistaks, even Bill Polian.. the better GM's who run better organizations make fewer of them, and that's a fact..

but at the conclusion of this season, if this team does NOT improve, then its time for Levy to start being held accountable, and that's the subject of my post.

What caca, Pat! Most of your points are based on what "might" happen, or what pundits think a player will become. From what I see, most pundits are wrong. They are just lucky no one pulls out their old articles and hold them accountable for the drivel the spew. You included.

You think two years is enough time to turn a franchise around? Let's look at the Sabres, shall we? In 2003, did anyone think Darcy Regier was a good GM? Did anyone think Lindy Ruff was Coach of the Year? The pundits were conviced they were idiots. And yet...

I suggest you get of Marv's back and let the man do his job. I seriously doubt you could do any better.

PTR

[OpIv37]

What caca, Pat! Most of your points are based on what "might" happen, or what pundits think a player will become. From what I see, most pundits are wrong. They are just lucky no one pulls out their old articles and hold them accountable for the drivel the spew. You included.

You think two years is enough time to turn a franchise around? Let's look at the Sabres, shall we? In 2003, did anyone think Darcy Regier was a good GM? Did anyone think Lindy Ruff was Coach of the Year? The pundits were conviced they were idiots. And yet...

I suggest you get of Marv's back and let the man do his job. I seriously doubt you could do any better.

PTR

it took less than two years for the Jets and Saints to turn it around.

[SquishDaFish]

Awesome posting Promo!! AWESOME!!

[The Answer]

Wow, overpaying for a 3rd stringer. Ralph Wilson is cheap.

Nall Ball might not even make through camp if the Trent Young Gun Edwards is lights out as The Answer predicts he will be.

~The Answer

[TacklingDummy]

it took less than two years for the Jets and Saints to turn it around.

Because Jets/Saints sucked and have recieved top 5 picks for sucking so bad. The Bills have sucked the past 6 years but they have not sucked enough to get a top 5 pick.

Plus they have better QBs.

[gil]

I thank you for the time you spent on that post and agree AFTER this season we can give Marv an early grade.

That being said, do you just sit around and dream up things to B@#ch & moan about?

[madness]

it took less than two years for the Jets and Saints to turn it around.

In reference to PTR's post, are you suggesting that's the average turnaround for a franchise?

[casdhf]

I never said NOW. . I said at the END OF THE SEASON..

and as for Marv's "attention to the lines" that Donahoe never gave us..

Here's a FACT..
Of the 8 Picks in rounds 1-4 the Bills have made with Marv Levy in charge over the past two years. We have taken exactly ONE defensive lineman and exactly ZERO offensive linemen.

That's 1-for-8 total... So that's one thing about Levy being so different than TD that go out the window right now. We've signed quite a few in FA though.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Well cry me a motha****ing river. Sorry, but I have to disagree with your pessimism. Really now you thought we'd be done repairing the damage of the Donawhore regime in two years? Yes, Marv should be held accountable but lets hold Marv accountable when the season starts. *****ing now about what you think is going to happen -what with your glass is half empty attitude- does no good to anyone but you so shut up. If you are right in October and November say what you will. Right now its still too damn early

[OpIv37]

In reference to PTR's post, are you suggesting that's the average turnaround for a franchise?

average? I don't know- I don't have access to that kind of data or the time to do a full statistical analysis on average turnaround time. Even if I did, it would be subjective because there would be debate over when rebuilding began and when they were actually successful again.

I just know there were two examples of a team turning it around in 1 year from LAST YEAR alone.

[patmoran2006]

9 teams in the past 3 years have went from a losing record the year before to the playoffs the next.

[patmoran2006]

What caca, Pat! Most of your points are based on what "might" happen, or what pundits think a player will become. From what I see, most pundits are wrong. They are just lucky no one pulls out their old articles and hold them accountable for the drivel the spew. You included.

You think two years is enough time to turn a franchise around? Let's look at the Sabres, shall we? In 2003, did anyone think Darcy Regier was a good GM? Did anyone think Lindy Ruff was Coach of the Year? The pundits were conviced they were idiots. And yet...

I suggest you get of Marv's back and let the man do his job. I seriously doubt you could do any better.

PTR
Not ONE point in my ENTIRE post was based on what "might" happen.. Every last one of them is something that has already happened

[patmoran2006]

And again.. SELECTIVE reading by some.

Pessimism... blahblahblah.

I said at the END of the season, if this team is NOT improved , then Levy starts to need to be held accountable.. Nothing more, nothing less.

[billsburgh]

since you've said that Marv should not be fired after 2 years, what else is there to do to "hold him accountable" if they dont improve this year?

[patmoran2006]

since you've said that Marv should not be fired after 2 years, what else is there to do to "hold him accountable" if they dont improve this year?For starters.. Quit the non-sense implied talk like he's some kind of savior.

To me at this point, he's done no better.. or no worse . than Donahoe did.

What I illustrated in the thread isnt my opinion, the moves made and numbers are all FACTS

[raphael120]

since you've said that Marv should not be fired after 2 years, what else is there to do to "hold him accountable" if they dont improve this year?


I think the sales of tickets will speak for themselves if its another losing season. The Sabers are the pinnacle of excitement in Buffalo, and if you tell me, ESPECIALLY if they win the cup *fingers crossed*, that the Bills can compete with the MASSIVE sabres following, youre crazy!

I think Marv and Ralph know that they have competition for the people of Buffalo and that having this status quo of mediocrity is not going to cut it when there is a better product being displayed 10 miles away.

[billsburgh]

For starters.. Quit the non-sense implied talk like he's some kind of savior.

To me at this point, he's done no better.. or no worse . than Donahoe did.

What I illustrated in the thread isnt my opinion, the moves made and numbers are all FACTS
you're right, so far he's getting by on his reputation and as you said it is deserved. I dont disputed anything you stated in the thread, they are all valid points. I was just asking what can be done other than firing him to hold him accountable. Usually in the sports world, when someone is held accountable, they lose thieir job.

[patmoran2006]

If levy was 60-65 years old, I'd let him be the GM for the next 20 years.

The fact is he's 81-years old, at that age whether you like it or not EVERy day you are healthy and top of your game is a blessing..

Get a solid, younger guy in here now, groom him under Marv for another year or so and then make the change without having to start all over.

Judgements on Marv as GM cannot even begin to be made until after this season; but based on some moves I"ve seen, dont see it looking overly promising. I dont see them any closer to contending than they have the pass decade; the only difference is they are younger; which wont ever mean jack **** unless they get real on both sides of the line.

and newsflash: Dockery doesnt make an OL.. LEft side is solid,but the right side has HUGE huge question marks. If you guys wan to call Preston/Whittle and Walker a big "upgrade" onthe OL, then be my guest.

[patmoran2006]

you're right, so far he's getting by on his reputation and as you said it is deserved. I dont disputed anything you stated in the thread, they are all valid points. I was just asking what can be done other than firing him to hold him accountable. Usually in the sports world, when someone is held accountable, they lose thieir job.
Whether we go 12-4 or 4-12, for starters I'd get rid of Modrak and begin grooming a new GM.. Marv PHYSICALLY by the laws of nature isn't going to the GM all that much longer. Modrak is a POS.

[patmoran2006]

you're right, so far he's getting by on his reputation and as you said it is deserved. I dont disputed anything you stated in the thread, they are all valid points. I was just asking what can be done other than firing him to hold him accountable. Usually in the sports world, when someone is held accountable, they lose thieir job.PS..whether you agree or not, good job on debating the points made of the thread. I like that

[raphael120]

Wow, agreeing with Pat has caused me quite a few negs...


FIGHT THE POWER!!!!<H3>:jam:


</H3>

[OpIv37]

And again.. SELECTIVE reading by some.

Pessimism... blahblahblah.

I said at the END of the season, if this team is NOT improved , then Levy starts to need to be held accountable.. Nothing more, nothing less.

don't bother- there are too many people who don't get it because they don't want to. They'd rather live in their delusional alternate reality where the Bills are somehow going to be competitive and part of that is based on the assumption that Marv Levy is infallible. The rules around here are:

1. Marv does not make mistakes
2. Pointing out Marv's mistakes is a punishable offense

And there is no middle ground- you can't judge each of Marv's moves on their own merit and decide some are good or some are bad. Either he gets the benefit of the doubt ALL the time or you're a hater.

Some people can't enjoy football unless they put their heads in the sand.

[TedMock]

After seeing all the moves (good and bad) that Marv made last year, and seeing that the young team actually looked better and more competitive than the year before; I'd say Marv gets a good grade on year one. I see no reason for year two to be put-up or shut-up for him. I understand that the record needs drastic improvement, but he came in with a plan and it seems to be going as planned so far. We'll know in December how he did with last years picks. Every move should be scrutinized on some level, but it's the sum of the parts that matters. Just remember that most moves don't work, so a GM/Team have to rely on the smaller percentage that do. Every year teams go to camp with questionable signings and undrafted's, etc. Time will tell. He's officially a year into it, so now he improve. Let's hope he does.

[Ron Burgundy]

That's good posting, Pat. I agree.

[raphael120]

How much do you contribute a bad season to the coach?

No one brought Dick into the equasion...

What do you think, Pat? Is it the questionable play calls, the unpreparedness...how do you discern bad players, especially young ones, from bad preparedness, coaching, etc?

[Ed]

Hasn't Marv always been accountable? I don't see why he shouldn't be held accountable for every decision he makes, I think it's just too early to judge a lot of them.

I think it's possible with our losses on D, relying on rookies and a lot of youth to step up, and a tough schedule, that we may not actually improve on our record, but still be better off in the long run. I personally think we'll be better and I'm certainly hoping so, but a lot of things are gonna have to go right this year for that to happen.

I think 2008 is the real make or break season for Marv & Co., where we say, you know what, no more excuses. A lot of our players will be hitting their prime, we shouldn't lose anyone significant in free agency and we'll have plenty of cap room to be major players in adding significant talent in our weakest areas.

So I'm holding Marv & Co. accountable for all the moves they make, but I don't think I'm really going to judge them until after 2008, not after this season.

[mayotm]

And again.. SELECTIVE reading by some.

Pessimism... blahblahblah.

I said at the END of the season, if this team is NOT improved , then Levy starts to need to be held accountable.. Nothing more, nothing less.Different thread title, same content. I don't disagree with all of your points. You just post the same things over and over and over and over.........

[Ebenezer]

Now while I know that Marv Levy is treated like a God by fans of the Buffalo Bills (rightfully so due to his head coaching career), the bottom line is that in 2007 it’s time for him to be held accountable one way or the other based on how this football team does. The honeymoon is over and so are the Tom Donahoe excuses as well. Levy’s now had two offseasons and two drafts to improve this team ... A good GM puts the kind of team together that gets better each year, not the kind of team that is lucky to match a losing-win total of the year before. Winning 7 games in his first year is acceptable. NOt improving in 2007 is not.

not even a week out of ML's second draft and you are ready to bring in the hook...ever run a business? there is a thing called stability - turning over management too often makes things worse. you got to lighten up a little...your incessant attacks are really annoying...

[feldspar]

don't bother- there are too many people who don't get it because they don't want to. They'd rather live in their delusional alternate reality where the Bills are somehow going to be competitive and part of that is based on the assumption that Marv Levy is infallible. The rules around here are:

1. Marv does not make mistakes
2. Pointing out Marv's mistakes is a punishable offense

And there is no middle ground- you can't judge each of Marv's moves on their own merit and decide some are good or some are bad. Either he gets the benefit of the doubt ALL the time or you're a hater.

Some people can't enjoy football unless they put their heads in the sand.

How does it feel to be so enlightened to the true nature of reality?

I really wonder.

Marv is doing a good job. I don't know how many rookies that start on day one of your average NFL team, but 2 starting rookies seems like plenty. Last year's draft was amazing as we had 5 rookie starters at one point. That's not going to happen every year. So, we got value and depth in this year's draft, as well 2 sure-fire starters. Players at our positions of need weren't available at anywhere near the value of our picks, so we had to go with what was there. Trading down wasn't going to work out. We were not going to find a corner better than Youboty, either. Poz and Lynch will be game changers IMO. Time will tell, but most people see this draft as a success. Poz was a steal even with the Detroit trade BTW.

As far as Marv "being held accountable" at the end of this year, saying that brings a negative connotation, as if you don't like the job he is doing. Everyone in this sport has to be held accountable, so why single anyone out unless you disapprove of him? "Marv's team" has won 2 more games than the team that played the year before he got here, so he is already ahead. For crying out loud, last year we pretty much replaced the entire coaching staff and installed a new system on both sides of the ball. Not to mention the new GM. We basically started over last year.

Also, in one year's time, only 20 players remain from the Donahoe era:
Angelo Crowell
Aaron Schobel
Josh Reed
Ryan Denney
Coy Wire
Chris Kelsay
Terrence McGee
Sam Aiken
Mario Haggan
Lee Evans
J.P. Losman
Tim Anderson
Roscoe Parrish
Kevin Everett
Duke Preston
Brian Moorman
Jason Peters
Rian Lindell
Josh Stamer
Jabari Greer

There are some good players on this list as well as some melons, but Donahoe had to go. Doing the math, that means Marv has added 33 players on this teams in one year. That is a lot. It's called building a team, and some moves are hit or miss. Of course he is going to make mistakes. Also, of course he is going to do things that you think are mistakes, but are absolutely the right thing to do. I like Marv because he is smart and knows the game, and he's not afraid to pull the trigger.

It seems like some people want to question him and hate on him only because so many people are high on him. Nobody thinks that Marv is the second coming of Christ, but then again, some people won't accept anything other than the second coming...as though bringing in one guy is going to make us suddenly invincible. To these people I say "chill out and enjoy the ride, because this team is improving."

[HHURRICANE]

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
It’s almost taboo to mention anything Levy ever does negatively, but the bottom line is that in his two offseasons of being GM of the Bills, he’s made some curious decisions that potentially could set this football team back even further than they were the year before.
<o:p></o:p>


Dude, did you forget that Mike Mularkey was the coach? Levy hiring Jauron was the best move since Levy was the coach. Jauron's a gamer.

Yeah, I didn't like the move to get McCargo, we screwed the pooch on the whole Clements deal, and Langston Walker already looks like a bust. However, to draft 2 guys to replace Milloy and Whitner is pretty amazing. Levy's draft class was amazing. Sirius this AM couldn't say enough.

The Bills probably had the best 2006 draft of any team in the league. Levy is obviously confident enough not to worry about fans like you.

[OpIv37]

How does it feel to be so enlightened to the true nature of reality?

I really wonder.

Marv is doing a good job. I don't know how many rookies that start on day one of your average NFL team, but 2 starting rookies seems like plenty. Last year's draft was amazing as we had 5 rookie starters at one point. That's not going to happen every year. So, we got value and depth in this year's draft, as well 2 sure-fire starters. Players at our positions of need weren't available at anywhere near the value of our picks, so we had to go with what was there. Trading down wasn't going to work out. We were not going to find a corner better than Youboty, either. Poz and Lynch will be game changers IMO. Time will tell, but most people see this draft as a success. Poz was a steal even with the Detroit trade BTW.

As far as Marv "being held accountable" at the end of this year, saying that brings a negative connotation, as if you don't like the job he is doing. Everyone in this sport has to be held accountable, so why single anyone out unless you disapprove of him? "Marv's team" has won 2 more games than the team that played the year before he got here, so he is already ahead. For crying out loud, last year we pretty much replaced the entire coaching staff and installed a new system on both sides of the ball. Not to mention the new GM. We basically started over last year.

Also, in one year's time, only 20 players remain from the Donahoe era:
Angelo Crowell
Aaron Schobel
Josh Reed
Ryan Denney
Coy Wire
Chris Kelsay
Terrence McGee
Sam Aiken
Mario Haggan
Lee Evans
J.P. Losman
Tim Anderson
Roscoe Parrish
Kevin Everett
Duke Preston
Brian Moorman
Jason Peters
Rian Lindell
Josh Stamer
Jabari Greer

There are some good players on this list as well as some melons, but Donahoe had to go. Doing the math, that means Marv has added 33 players on this teams in one year. That is a lot. It's called building a team, and some moves are hit or miss. Of course he is going to make mistakes. Also, of course he is going to do things that you think are mistakes, but are absolutely the right thing to do. I like Marv because he is smart and knows the game, and he's not afraid to pull the trigger.

It seems like some people want to question him and hate on him only because so many people are high on him. Nobody thinks that Marv is the second coming of Christ, but then again, some people won't accept anything other than the second coming...as though bringing in one guy is going to make us suddenly invincible. To these people I say "chill out and enjoy the ride, because this team is improving."

I never said Marv was doing a good job, but at the moment I give him an incomplete. He's done some good things and made some mistakes.

As far as finding a corner better than Youboty- well, how do you know? Youboty hasn't played and at the very least, we need depth at the position, so someone to challenge would've been a good thing. If Youboty beat him in training camp, so be it- we have a little bit of depth at the position. That's a good thing.

And there are people here who think Marv is the second coming of Christ.

[Crisis]

9 teams in the past 3 years have went from a losing record the year before to the playoffs the next.

How many losing seasons in a row did they have prior to the winning seasons?

[patmoran2006]

Hold the phones.

I NEVER said Marv was or wasn't doing a good job... I did nothing but paint FACTS onto a thread. and I didn't say the Bills would or wouldn't improve.

I said IF the Bills don't continue to improve this season, then its time that Marv levy starts being held accountable.

I don't suggest nor think the Bills should be expected to win the AFC East and make a Super Bowl run. But given the fact they won 7 games last year, had the third most cap room in the NFL going into FA, and drafted in a good position this past weekend; that there is NO reason that this team should'nt at least be improved. Regression shouldn't be an option and if it is, then its time the GM of the football team starts to take some of the accountability for it, mainly for the decisions that I related to in my initial thread.

So to make this perfectly clear; If the Bills stumble this year and finish 5-11, that doesn't necessarily mean I think Levy should be fired-- what it does mean is he needs to start being held accountable. Because to this point every lousy or questionable front office move that's been made has been met by this board and Bills fans in general with little or no criticism, and I'm saying that's not right, just because his name is Marv Levy.

[Mr. Cynical]

Now while I know that Marv Levy is treated like a God by fans of the Buffalo Bills (rightfully so due to his head coaching career), the bottom line is that in 2007 it’s time for him to be held accountable one way or the other based on how this football team does. The honeymoon is over and so are the Tom Donahoe excuses as well. Levy’s now had two offseasons and two drafts to improve this team ... A good GM puts the kind of team together that gets better each year, not the kind of team that is lucky to match a losing-win total of the year before. Winning 7 games in his first year is acceptable. NOt improving in 2007 is not.


<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
It’s almost taboo to mention anything Levy ever does negatively, but the bottom line is that in his two offseasons of being GM of the Bills, he’s made some curious decisions that potentially could set this football team back even further than they were the year before.
<o:p></o:p>
Among them…

Trading up for Paul Poslusny. By moving up for Poz and drafting a QB Project (Edwards) on day one, Levy basically drafted one player on day one who will contribute instead of potentially three. Poz doesn’t just need to be a starter: for this move he needs to be an impact player.
Trading up for John McCargo last year. Most people didn’t have McCargo graded as a first rounder, Levy did. Granted he was hurt last year, but this year he needs to show he was worth losing a valuable day one pick over.
By not signing a FA Wr or drafting one, Levy showed a lot of confidence in Peerless Price as a legit #2. He needs to step up.
Langston Walker, despite being a part of the worst OL ever in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Oakland</st1:City></st1:place>, was given a huge vote of confidence here, and $25 million to boot.
If it’s not strictly a “financial move”, then Levy concluded that Takeo Spikes’ career as an impact player is over, and dumped him off to <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Philadelphia</st1:place></st1:City> for a one-dimensional rotational DT. Hope that Spikes’ best days are indeed behind him.
Signed Tutan Reyes and Matt Bowens, a pair of waste products who were both cut after only one year and zero positive contributions.
Made Larry Tripplett his first big free agent signing. Last year, Tripplett grossly underachieved. This year his cap hit is $3.785 million (according to clump). That’s an awful lot of money for someone with 2.5 sacks and zero impact against the run.
Given a one-dimensional DE like Chris Kelsay $24 million, including nearly $13 million in guaranteed money. It might not happen, but it’s a lock that this will sooner or later (and probably sooner) prompt Aaron Schobel’s agent to demand more money—which as a Pro Bowler he deserves.
Knowing our schedule is stacked with teams possessing great passing games and WR’s, <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Buffalo</st1:place></st1:City> failed to sign or draft a single cornerback this offseason. We’re putting our pass defense in the hands of Terrence McGee, Ashton Youboty and Kiwaukee Thomas at the corner spot.<o:p></o:p>
Among a couple of other “curious” decisions that have been made.
<o:p></o:p>

Josh Reed, a clear-cut backup WR, is counting $2.7 million against the cap this year.
Ryan Denney, a rotational DE, is making $3.2 million this year against the cap.
Coy Wire is not only still on the roster, but counts $1.65 million against the cap.
The most puzzling of all… Craig Nall was given $1.3 million just to sign his name on the dotted line. He couldn’t even beat out Holcomb at any point last year. This year, we draft a QB on day one, likely keeping Nall as a permanent clipboard holder. By the way, he’s counting $1.73 million against the cap this year, ABSURD for a third stringer.<o:p></o:p>
Now if the Bills improve and are better than last year, then Levy deserves a lot of the credit. But if they regress.. again. Then it’s time that the general manager of the football team starts being held accountable for this mess or an organization. Even if his name is the much beloved Marv Levy.

While I agree with most of this you left out the one reason he will likely fail.

See my sig.

[Ebenezer]

It seems like some people want to question him


there are just some fans who have to criticize every single move...I really wonder about those people and what they really need from a football team...I pity their kids - unreal expectations can be crushing. some need to get over it...question and debate but to perpetually attack gets old quickly.

[feldspar]

Hold the phones.

I NEVER said Marv was or wasn't doing a good job... I did nothing but paint FACTS onto a thread. and I didn't say the Bills would or wouldn't improve.

I said IF the Bills don't continue to improve this season, then its time that Marv levy starts being held accountable.

I don't suggest nor think the Bills should be expected to win the AFC East and make a Super Bowl run. But given the fact they won 7 games last year, had the third most cap room in the NFL going into FA, and drafted in a good position this past weekend; that there is NO reason that this team should'nt at least be improved. Regression shouldn't be an option and if it is, then its time the GM of the football team starts to take some of the accountability for it, mainly for the decisions that I related to in my initial thread.

So to make this perfectly clear; If the Bills stumble this year and finish 5-11, that doesn't necessarily mean I think Levy should be fired-- what it does mean is he needs to start being held accountable. Because to this point every lousy or questionable front office move that's been made has been met by this board and Bills fans in general with little or no criticism, and I'm saying that's not right, just because his name is Marv Levy.
With a guy like you laying down the law, I'm sure you have Marv shaking in his boots.

You do realize that your ultimatum means nothing, right?

[feldspar]

As far as finding a corner better than Youboty- well, how do you know?

I'm saying that we weren't going to find a corner better than Youboty in the draft. I say that with confidence. Of course that's my opinion, but it sounds pretty damn reasonable to me.Youboty is an excellent prospect. He was projected to go in the first to early second rounds of last year's draft. He has had a year to learn the system as well, so he has more than a leg up on anyone we would have brought in through the draft. We weren't going to find a better corner in the draft, especially after round 2. And it was a smart move not to go after a corner in the first 2 rounds IMO. Lynch and Poz were excellent picks, and they will start on day one.

Now, if we were going to pick up a corner in free agency, tell me which one...Dre Bly? I think Marv thought that the O-line was more important, even if you don't agree with the particular players he picked up in free agency...there are only a handful of good ones available. If it looks like he spent too much, maybe he did, but you have to take into account the new salary cap...everyone is getting paid too much. Also, a shut down corner isn't as important in the cover 2 than it is with other schemes. It takes time to put together a team, and a team full of superstars is nothing without chemistry and coaching.

I don't think that Marv can do no wrong, but he is doing a good job. What more do you want? You have to be realistic about what you expect from him. An old quote of Marv's is "once you start listening to the fans' opinions, pretty soon you are going to be sitting with them." That's not an exact quote, but it's close, and that's what he meant.

[Elminster]

Seems like Feldspar is holding down the fort quite well, but let me add something of my own...

I am quite perceptive, and I can tell you, having watched a number of 4th-quarter collapses two years ago, that that team had no direction. Nobody stepped and made plays because they all expected everyone else to do so. There was a lot of talk and posturing, a lot of glitz and glam, but ultimately, no walk, no substance. No matter what London Fletcher-Baker or Takeo Spikes or Mike Mularkey said in the presser after the game, the team that came out on the field the following Sunday was the same. It was gasping for air by the middle of the the third quarter. The only gameplanning seemed restricted to the first drive. The coaching staff seemed unable to adjust and was often outsmarted, often by itself. Donahoe signed a bunch of veterans, slapped on a fresh coat of paint, and, for a time, passed off a heap of building material as a house. But no matter what, there was no accountability, no end to the collapses, the chokes. Just two years ago, I would often turn off the game in disgust, for I could tell that, except for a select few, they had already boarded the plane and were going home.

I was happy when Donahoe was gone...like Christmas. When Marv Levy was hired, I could hardly believe it. THE MARV. Much was made of his lack of GM knowledge. Mularkey soon resigned, and a sigh of relief passed my lips. Then came the hiring process. The "people's choice" was by and far Jim Haslett or Mike Sherman. Marv choose Dick Jauron, and was crucified for it. I couldn't understand. No one could show me why Haslett was a good coach or how Sherman had built anything. But, as time passed, the peopel warmed to Jauron. He was a smart, knowledgeable man. No doubt, he is reminiscient of a younger Marv, but some one would have to confirm this for me. The FA signings failed to produce any big names, and people doubted. Some called for the drafting of a QB, many for a DT. Marv did things his own way. The outcry followed, predictably. He was roasted for leaving Leinart on the board by some and Bunkley by many. Donte Whitner? Who? Meanwhile, the Dolphins traded for Culpepper and were tabbed as Super Bowl favorites.

Fast forward....and we're better off. Two games better, with a team that showed a spine in the 4th, staving off other teams and even clawing its way to victory on numerous occasions, upon the arm of JP Losman, no longer fingered by many as bust but instead as franchise QB. Broderick Bunkley fulfilled his character concerns while McCargo whiled away his season on IR and Whitner played exceptionally. Players like Ellison, written off as camp bodies, made the team and made it big. We jettison yet more of Donahoe's rotting pile of building materials and start building our house with the pieces found to be sound. And yet more outcry...but quieter, this time. There seems to be a pattern here. Marv does something, fans don't like it, it turns out for the better. Sure, Marv had made mistakes. But he seems to recognize him. If Donahoe had signed Matt Bowen(not that Donahoe would be caught dead trying to sign DEPTH), he'd still be on the team, and Donahoe would be trying to convince everyone of how great the contributions of Bowen's "veteran leadership" were and rationalizing Matt Leinart's poor performance to us as our offensive line languished and Losman prospered elsewhere.

So, if you'll excuse me, I'll gladly hold Marv accountable for the play-off berth we're getting this year....

[patmoran2006]

The PLAYOFF BIRTH we're getting THIS year??

Ummm.. k

[alohabillsfan]

And again.. SELECTIVE reading by some.

Pessimism... blahblahblah.

I said at the END of the season, if this team is NOT improved , then Levy starts to need to be held accountable.. Nothing more, nothing less.


Please define how you intend to have the GM held "accountable"?

[DynaPaul]

I disagree. This is the last free season for Marv. We still have developing talent and are still working out the Donahoe mistakes. This year I'm not expecting a run in the playoffs though it'd be nice and I'd be happy as hell if that happens. Next season, however, is when we can start complaining if things don't turnaround. You gotta give the guy 2 full drafts and seasons to work it all out and he has been aggressive in fixing weaknesses.