John DiGiorgio

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Here is the what Brown said
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Though Crowell is likely to be the backup middle linebacker if Posluszny is able to nail down the starting job, second-year player John DiGiorgiohttp://www.buffalobills.com/images/relatedicon.gif (http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=4782#) should not be overlooked.
"John DiGiorgio really came on for us last year and had a great learning year at a mike linebacker position," said Jauron.
Buffalo's head coach has expressed an affinity for DiGiorgio's athleticism more than once and he too offers special teams abilities.
----
I don't remember seeing him get into game action last year. So I don't know what Jauron's talking about in terms of "came on for us last year."

Now if he was very athletic but lacking in mental part as a linebacker, then we may have something if he "came on" football last year. But then again, those guys are usually drafted as prospects; DiGiorgio did not.

[Pinkerton Security]

I actually saw this guy play for Saginaw against Mercyhurst, though at the time I didnt know, I was just there watching some football. The guy dominated at the DII level, and has good instincts as far as I've heard. I'd love to see him succeed, and I always root for him. I have seen him in on special teams but not much more.

This being said, if a DII FA signee is our backup MLB, its hard to be excited about that.

[Fletch]

He weighs less than 230 pounds and is 6-2.

The guys more built like a basketball player. He'll get mowed over in a heartbeat.

[YoungMoney]

He made some great ST's plays last year, that's all I saw of him.

[gr8slayer]

He weighs less than 230 pounds and is 6-2.

The guys more built like a basketball player. He'll get mowed over in a heartbeat.
Sheer ignorance. Weight has little to do with anything if you have speed and strength.

[YoungMoney]

He weighs more than half the RB's in the league, so how is he gonna be "Mowed Over"

[OpIv37]

I think everyone missed the biggest part of this: Crowell as a BACKUP behind Poz? So our starters would be Poz, Ellison, and.... Stamer? Haggan? Wire?

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

[OpIv37]

He weighs more than half the RB's in the league, so how is he gonna be "Mowed Over"

Fullbacks, TE's, OL's, plus power runners like McGahee or Turner will light him up.

[gr8slayer]

He weighs more than half the RB's in the league, so how is he gonna be "Mowed Over"
I think he means that the OL are going to mow him over which is even more ignorant. Being a former OL/DL I can tell you that there's nothing more a fat OL hates more than an athletic LB, make you look stupid all day long.

[Pinkerton Security]

He weighs less than 230 pounds and is 6-2.

The guys more built like a basketball player. He'll get mowed over in a heartbeat.

Not that I think he is gonna be a star in the NFL, just because of his height and weight, you cannot predict how he will do.

[YoungMoney]

Fullbacks, TE's, OL's, plus power runners like McGahee or Turner will light him up.
The words McGahee and Power should be banned from the same sentence.

[Jeff1220]

He weighs less than 230 pounds and is 6-2.

The guys more built like a basketball player. He'll get mowed over in a heartbeat.

Antoine Winfield is 5'9" 180 lbs. I don't seem to remember him ever getting run over. Technique counts for a lot more in this sport than people give credit for.

[gr8slayer]

I think everyone missed the biggest part of this: Crowell as a BACKUP behind Poz? So our starters would be Poz, Ellison, and.... Stamer? Haggan? Wire?

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.
Why? Because they aren't sexy names? Because no body has ever heard of them outside of Buffalo. Some of you make me sick, players are in the NFL because they are the best of the best when it comes to football. Some of them have never gotten the opportunity to show what they are capable of because they have had idiot coaches or the circumstances weren't right. Who's to say that if one of them stepped in they wouldn't play like _________. We could go down the list of countless players who were back ups for a LONG TIME, got their chance, and are now good players. Hell the first one that comes to mind is TOM BRADY. Think he would have gotten the chance had Bledsoe not gotten hurt? You seem to like Crowell, how quickly you forget that he only became a starter after we dropped Posey. Ellison? Became a starter because of injury and he has turned out to be just fine.

DON'T JUDGE UNTIL YOU SEE THEM PLAY OP!

[Pinkerton Security]

I think everyone missed the biggest part of this: Crowell as a BACKUP behind Poz? So our starters would be Poz, Ellison, and.... Stamer? Haggan? Wire?

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

I hope and pray that they mean that should Poz start at MLB and go down, Crowell could slide in there and take over.


:pray:

[OpIv37]

Antoine Winfield is 5'9" 180 lbs. I don't seem to remember him ever getting run over. Technique counts for a lot more in this sport than people give credit for.

Winfield doesn't play MLB- he plays corner. Technique counts for a lot more in open field tackles- when the run breaks up the middle, it's all about the size.

6'2" 230 is awkward- it's going to lose to 5'8 220 every time.

[gr8slayer]

Winfield doesn't play MLB- he plays corner. Technique counts for a lot more in open field tackles- when the run breaks up the middle, it's all about the size.

6'2" 230 is awkward- it's going to lose to 5'8 220 every time.
You're right, Zach Thomas is a monster in stature isn't he? That 5'11 228 pound frame just won't hold up in the NFL right? :rolleyes:

[gr8slayer]

Or how about little Will Witherspoon, 6'1 230. He's done for :rolleyes:

[OpIv37]

Why? Because they aren't sexy names? Because no body has ever heard of them outside of Buffalo. Some of you make me sick, players are in the NFL because they are the best of the best when it comes to football. Some of them have never gotten he opportunity to show what they are capable of because they have had idiot coaches or the circumstances weren't right. Who's to say that if one of them stepped in they wouldn't play like _________. We could go down the list of countless players who were back ups for a LONG TIME, got their chance, and are now good players. Hell the first one that comes to mind is TOM BRADY. Think he would have gotten the chance had Bledsoe not gotten hurt? You seem to like Crowell, how quickly you forget that he only became a starter after we dropped Posey. Ellison? Became a starter because of injury and he has turned out to be just fine.

DON'T JUDGE UNTIL YOU SEE THEM PLAY OP!


You act like no one has EVER seen them play. Camp, preseason, etc- these guys didn't just materialize out of thin air since the season ended. Everyone keeps talking about how bad Spikes and Fletch were last year- well if they were so bad, these guys were on the bench backing them up. How good could they possibly be?

Ellison is overrated by a lot of people here- he was playing because our LB's are terrible and we had injuries and not because he's anything so great. And Haggan and Wire couldn't even beat Ellison out despite the fact that he's a rookie and we had all those injuries at LB (Stamer gets a pass for being injured).

I'm not judging them because no one has ever heard of them- I'm judging them because they've been on the roster forever and can't get past 3rd on the depth chart despite our defensive struggle.

And with Brady, you're using the exception as the rule. Just because it happened once, on a different team, with different players who play different positions, does NOT mean it can or will happen here.

[gr8slayer]

We should just write off Lawrence Timmons' career. 232 pounds isn't going to do it in the NFL according to Op.

[OpIv37]

You're right, Zach Thomas is a monster in stature isn't he? That 5'11 228 pound frame just won't hold up in the NFL right? :rolleyes:

for a MLB 5'11 228 is better than 6'2 230- at least it's compact and has a low center of gravity. 6'2 230 is a twig.

[gr8slayer]

You act like no one has EVER seen them play. Camp, preseason, etc- these guys didn't just materialize out of thin air since the season ended. Everyone keeps talking about how bad Spikes and Fletch were last year- well if they were so bad, these guys were on the bench backing them up. How good could they possibly be?

Ellison is overrated by a lot of people here- he was playing because our LB's are terrible and we had injuries and not because he's anything so great. And Haggan and Wire couldn't even beat Ellison out despite the fact that he's a rookie and we had all those injuries at LB (Stamer gets a pass for being injured).

I'm not judging them because no one has ever heard of them- I'm judging them because they've been on the roster forever and can't get past 3rd on the depth chart despite our defensive struggle.

And with Brady, you're using the exception as the rule. Just because it happened once, on a different team, with different players who play different positions, does NOT mean it can or will happen here.
- You've never heard me say Fletcher was bad so mind your mouth.

- Ellison may have been playing because of a lot of things but he did damn good in the eyes of people who understand football and more importantly in the eyes of our coaches who get paid a few bucks to determine how good someone is.

- So because they have been with us for a while and haven't been able to beat out all-pros like Fletcher and Spikes (formerly) they must be horrible players? Interesting concept.

- Do I need to start going down the list of players who were nothing but got the chance and made something of themselves? Another that comes to mind is Donald Driver.

[gr8slayer]

for a MLB 5'11 228 is better than 6'2 230- at least it's compact and has a low center of gravity. 6'2 230 is a twig.
Op, now you are just trying to be a Nancy.

[Pinkerton Security]

for a MLB 5'11 228 is better than 6'2 230- at least it's compact and has a low center of gravity. 6'2 230 is a twig.
And Jason Taylor is too thin for a DE, IMO, based on weight alone.

And Drew Brees is too short for a QB.

The point is weight and height dont mean everything. Would we prefer our LB's to bee stout, jacked, machines of men? i would. But just because someone is slightly smaller in build doesnt mean that much.

[OpIv37]

- You've never heard me say Fletcher was bad so mind your mouth.

- Ellison may have been playing because of a lot of things but he did damn good in the eyes of people who understand football and more importantly in the eyes of our coaches who get paid a few bucks to determine how good someone is.

- So because they have been with us for a while and haven't been able to beat out all-pros like Fletcher and Spikes (formerly) they must be horrible players? Interesting concept.

- Do I need to start going down the list of players who were nothing but got the chance and made something of themselves? Another that comes to mind is Donald Driver.

If Spikes and Fletch were still playing like All-Pro's, why did we let two All Pro's go? If they weren't playing like All-Pro's, why couldn't the guys we have crack the starting lineup? You can't have it both ways.

[madness]

If Spikes and Fletch were still playing like All-Pro's, why did we let two All Pro's go? If they weren't playing like All-Pro's, why couldn't the guys we have crack the starting lineup? You can't have it both ways.

Future starters don't always have to "crack" the starting lineup based on outplaying the starter alone. This league is filled with starters who got their break because of injury or aging veterans. Crowell and Ellison are just two more examples. Obviously you don't believe in Ellison yet which is contrary to the coaching staff but Crowell used to be considered nothing more then a backup. Now he's a starter. Go figure.

[justasportsfan]

DON'T JUDGE UNTIL YOU SEE THEM PLAY OP!


O cmon, if he did that then he wouldn't be the overreactive negative Op we've come to love ....to hate :D

In OP's world guys like Fletcher , Peters , Pat Williams, Brady all of whom were undrafted would've been scrubs off the bat because they weren't big named draft picks picked high in the draft .

If the bills picked someone like Kurt Warner from the grocery store there'd be hell to pay on BZ. Rather than let them play first and see what haapens, just scratch them off the list and call them scrubs. It's easier for these guys.

[OpIv37]

Future starters don't always have to "crack" the starting lineup based on outplaying the starter alone. This league is filled with starters who got their break because of injury or aging veterans. Crowell and Ellison are just two more examples. Obviously you don't believe in Ellison yet which is contrary to the coaching staff but Crowell used to be considered nothing more then a backup. Now he's a starter. Go figure.

Every time I criticize the Spikes trade, everyone tells me how bad he was and how he's so easy to replace. But, then I hear that the guys on the bench were behind them are supposed to be better? It's illogical.

Stamer, Haggan and Crowell all came into the league in 2003. Crowell began starting for Spikes in 2005, after two years. With Fletch, Spikes and Posey playing so well in 03 and 04, it's not surprising he had to wait to get his chance.

Stamer and Haggan have had 4 years and have yet to crack the starting lineup, despite the injuries to Spikes and other deficiencies in our LB corps throughout 2005 and 2006. In fact, neither could beat out the rookie Ellison and Haggan lost out to Wire (a converted S for ****'s sake) later in the year (Stamer was injured).

So, Stamer and Haggan lost out to Crowell, the rookie Ellison and a converted S in Wire, and in 4 years have yet to get significant playing time on D on a team that had weak LB's for 2 of those 4 years. They've had chances and have yet to get it done.

[OpIv37]

O cmon, if he did that then he wouldn't be the overreactive negative Op we've come to love ....to hate :D

In OP's world guys like Fletcher , Peters , Pat Williams, Brady all of whom were undrafted would've been scrubs off the bat because they weren't big named draft picks picked high in the draft .

If the bills picked someone like Kurt Warner from the grocery store there'd be hell to pay on BZ. Rather than let them play first and see what haapens, just scratch them off the list and call them scrubs. It's easier for these guys.

yeah, cuz Stamer, Haggan and Wire have NEVER played in a football game and haven't been on our roster since 2003 or anything :rolleyes:. See my response to madness- these guys had their opportunities and did nothing.

Speaking of Pat Williams, what happened when we let him go and tried to replace him with the back-ups on our roster? Yeah, that's what I thought.

[Dr. Lecter]

I think everyone missed the biggest part of this: Crowell as a BACKUP behind Poz? So our starters would be Poz, Ellison, and.... Stamer? Haggan? Wire?

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

I think he meant that if Poz goes down, Crowell would move to MLB and somebody would take over Crowell on the outside.

[OpIv37]

I think he meant that if Pz goes down, Crowell woudl move to MLB and somebocy would take over Crowell on the outside.

I hope you're right- that would make me feel a little better.

[justasportsfan]

for a MLB 5'11 228 is better than 6'2 230- at least it's compact and has a low center of gravity. 6'2 230 is a twig.


I agree, Jason Taylor is an anorexic DE. Who the hell thought of putting him as a DE is pretty stupid. Jimmy Johnson is one stupid coach. How he is considered a HOF coach is beyond me when he drafted JT. Same goes for Freeney . Poilan doesn't know didlypoo . Wait where did I hear that name before?

Don't even bother letting these guys prove themselves at camp . Just watch thier size and then decide right there and then.


Steve Smith is a midget so is Santana Moss. In OP's world it would've been dumb to draft any of those guys because of their size just like Parrish.

Fletcher and Zach Thomas shoulve gone to The National Hobbitsville League where they would make it as lb'ers.

[justasportsfan]

yeah, cuz Stamer, Haggan and Wire have NEVER played in a football game and haven't been on our roster since 2003 or anything :rolleyes:. See my response to madness- these guys had their opportunities and did nothing. .
Stamer and HAggan played 1 year under the new system. Let's cut them all including Tripplett , Mccargo , . Hell Jp wasn't all that , let him go. Let's just keep Evans and Moorman.


Speaking of Pat Williams, what happened when we let him go and tried to replace him with the back-ups on our roster? Yeah, that's what I thought.

Yeah we sucked after we let him go.He was a great DT that was undrafted . If it were up to you he wouldn't have even been on this team because he was undrafted and we wouldn't even have this conversation i the first place.

Guys like Digiorgio have started where guys like Pat Williams, Fletcher , Zach Thomas started. You can't just call them a bust right away. Give them time before you start saying they suck.

It took Moulds 3 years before he became decent.

[OpIv37]

I agree, Jason Taylor is an anorexic DE. Who the hell thought of putting him as a DE is pretty stupid. Jimmy Johnson is one stupid coach. How he is considered a HOF coach is beyond me when he drafted JT. Same goes for Freeney . Poilan doesn't know didlypoo . Wait where did I hear that name before?

Don't even bother letting these guys prove themselves at camp . Just watch thier size and then decide right there and then.


Steve Smith is a midget so is Santana Moss. In OP's world it would've been dumb to draft any of those guys because of their size just like Parrish.

Fletcher and Zach Thomas shoulve gone to The National Hobbitsville League where they would make it as lb'ers.

Jason Taylor plays MLB in a Cover 2? Since when?

Roscoe Parrish is a midget- how has that worked out from the receiver position? Shaud Williams is a midget- how has he worked out?

Again, using the exception to prove the rule.

[TedMock]

Guys, this is getting seriously ******ed. Obviously Crowell is going to be a starter at one of the spots. If Poz gets hurt, Crowell moves over and somebody else plays outside. It's really not that difficult to understand. Let try to keep your panties from bunching up in all the overreaction that's going on.

Spikes was NOT a full-time starter last season. He was off the field on several second and third down's.

Also, let's not forget that we're not talking about high-school football where a junior may unseat a senior who's not playing well. There is a serious game of politics that goes on in pro sports. That's why you see so many guys get angry in their last stint. They realize that although they're the starter - they may no longer be the better player. They realize that they're gone next year because the young guy, when on the field, is playing better. The old-vet always gets a crack at redemption before being axed. Bledsoe got a shot in Buffalo and Dallas even though he was no longer the guy. Andre Reed started over Moulds for a season even though it was obvious who the better talent was. Corey Dillon was phased out of NE, but was still the full-time guy two years ago even though he wasn't the better back. It's not as black and white as people try to make it.

[OpIv37]

Stamer and HAggan played 1 year under the new system. Let's cut them all including Tripplett , Mccargo , . Hell Jp wasn't all that , let him go. Let's just keep Evans and Moorman.


Yeah we sucked after we let him go.He was a great DT that was undrafted . If it were up to you he wouldn't have even been on this team because he was undrafted and we wouldn't even have this conversation i the first place.

Guys like Digiorgio have started where guys like Pat Williams, Fletcher , Zach Thomas started. You can't just call them a bust right away. Give them time before you start saying they suck.

It took Moulds 3 years before he became decent.

I am so sick of hearing how this D is going to get SO much better because guys who have never done anything are suddenly going to be good with 1 year in the cover 2, or rookies are suddenly going to be so much better after one year. You act like I want to get rid of these guys after 1 year of doing nothing and that's not the case at all- I want upgrades after several years of mediocrity. You're completely IGNORING the fact that these guys had their opportunities and didn't go anywhere. Maybe not DiGiorgio because he's only been here a year, but still- you're the one who advocates getting rid of guys who don't fit the system, and now you want a twig-boy at MLB. Make up your mind.

[justasportsfan]

I think he meant that if Poz goes down, Crowell would move to MLB and somebody would take over Crowell on the outside.
Yup, that's what he meant. Funny how he couldn't READ into it.

[OpIv37]

Guys, this is getting seriously ******ed. Obviously Crowell is going to be a starter at one of the spots. If Poz gets hurt, Crowell moves over and somebody else plays outside. It's really not that difficult to understand. Let try to keep your panties from bunching up in all the overreaction that's going on.

Spikes was NOT a full-time starter last season. He was off the field on several second and third down's.

Also, let's not forget that we're not talking about high-school football where a junior may unseat a senior who's not playing well. There is a serious game of politics that goes on in pro sports. That's why you see so many guys get angry in their last stint. They realize that although they're the starter - they may no longer be the better player. They realize that they're gone next year because the young guy, when on the field, is playing better. The old-vet always gets a crack at redemption before being axed. Bledsoe got a shot in Buffalo and Dallas even though he was no longer the guy. Andre Reed started over Moulds for a season even though it was obvious who the better talent was. Corey Dillon was phased out of NE, but was still the full-time guy two years ago even though he wasn't the better back. It's not as black and white as people try to make it.

If that's the case, it means the coaches aren't doing everything in their power to win and that's extremely discouraging.

[madness]

I hope you're right- that would make me feel a little better.

I thought that was pretty obvious. Duh, you homer. :D

[justasportsfan]

Jason Taylor plays MLB in a Cover 2? Since when? haha! It's got nothing to do with position. It's always your excuse whe you're in a bind.

You're *****ing about a size for a certain position. Too small for a wr. too small for a lb. too small. yadayada.

JT is a twig for a DE. You would've called him a twig if he was drafted by the bills.


Roscoe Parrish is a midget- how has that worked out from the receiver position? Shaud Williams is a midget- how has he worked out?
Considering who and when Parrish is drafted , this is his final year do prove himself. Mean a struggling JP with Mularkey as a HC?

Last year was also a learning experience for those involved in the passing game including JP.

If we drafted Steve Smith, in your world he's already a bust. He only is an exception to the rule because you've already seen results. Otherwise, these guys are already busts in your world because of size. :coocoo:

[OpIv37]

haha! It's got nothing to do with position. It's always your excuse whe you're in a bind.

You're *****ing about a size for a certain position. Too small for a wr. too small for a lb. too small. yadayada.

JT is a twig for a DE. You would've called him a twig if he was drafted by the bills.


Considering who and when Parrish is drafted , this is his final year do prove himself. Mean a struggling JP with Mularkey as a HC?

Last year was also a learning experience for those involved in the passing game including JP.

If we drafted Steve Smith, in your world he's already a bust. He only is an exception to the rule because you've already seen results. Otherwise, these guys are already busts in your world because of size. :coocoo:

Position isn't my "excuse". You're trying to use a different player on a different team in a different position as an example. you have NO ability to understand the specifics of a situation- in your world, anything that works once is universally applicable. It's a faulty comparison but you just lack the ability to see it.

And now you're putting words in my mouth. Roscoe's size has been a liability- he's excellent in open space but he can't operate in traffic or break tackles. It's not conjecture- it's what ACTUALLY HAPPENED ON THE FIELD.

And you're tryign to have it both ways "We don't need big tackles in the Cover 2" but you're OK with a MLB who doesn't fit the size requirements of the position? WTF?

[madness]

Every time I criticize the Spikes trade, everyone tells me how bad he was and how he's so easy to replace. But, then I hear that the guys on the bench were behind them are supposed to be better? It's illogical.

Stamer, Haggan and Crowell all came into the league in 2003. Crowell began starting for Spikes in 2005, after two years. With Fletch, Spikes and Posey playing so well in 03 and 04, it's not surprising he had to wait to get his chance.

Stamer and Haggan have had 4 years and have yet to crack the starting lineup, despite the injuries to Spikes and other deficiencies in our LB corps throughout 2005 and 2006. In fact, neither could beat out the rookie Ellison and Haggan lost out to Wire (a converted S for ****'s sake) later in the year (Stamer was injured).

So, Stamer and Haggan lost out to Crowell, the rookie Ellison and a converted S in Wire, and in 4 years have yet to get significant playing time on D on a team that had weak LB's for 2 of those 4 years. They've had chances and have yet to get it done.

I agree Stamer and Haggan are nothing more then depth but I'm pretty sure the depth of the entire league doesn't give every team the opportunity to stock future starters. This team is no different then all the teams out there. Some teams are better stocked at certain positions then other teams. That's just how the ball bounces. Your same argument can be made about new players not being able to overthrow our current depth. Why should they be on the team if they can't outplay depth players like Stamer and Haggan?

I don't consider Coy Wire a converted safety. If you want to be accurate, he's a converted LB/RB to S to LB. All his knocks and strengths on safety are a total different story when he's returning back to the original position he played in college. His knock was that he couldn't cover at S but was an excellent tackler. This guy deserves a chance at LB on this team.

[OpIv37]

I thought that was pretty obvious. Duh, you homer. :D

I don't necessarily know that it's obvious.

If Poz goes down and Crowell moves over and someone fills in for Crowell's other spot, it means you have one player out of position and one backup on the field, instead of just having a back up on the field.

I know that's what happens sometimes, but it seems more logical to maximize continuity as much as possible. Every change increases risk.

[OpIv37]

I agree Stamer and Haggan are nothing more then depth but I'm pretty sure the depth of the entire league doesn't give every team the opportunity to stock future starters. This team is no different then all the teams out there. Some teams are better stocked at certain positions then other teams. That's just how the ball bounces. Your same argument can be made about new players not being able to overthrow our current depth. Why should they be on the team if they can't outplay depth players like Stamer and Haggan?

I don't consider Coy Wire a converted safety. If you want to be accurate, he's a converted LB/RB to S to LB. All his knocks and strengths on safety are a total different story when he's returning back to the original position he played in college. His knock was that he couldn't cover at S but was an excellent tackler. This guy deserves a chance at LB on this team.

about Wire- our LB's have to drop into pass coverage in this D- if his problem at S was coverage, wouldn't that also be an issue as a cover 2 LB?

[justasportsfan]

I am so sick of hearing how this D is going to get SO much better because guys who have never done anything are suddenly going to be good with 1 year in the cover 2, or rookies are suddenly going to be so much better after one year. You act like I want to get rid of these guys after 1 year of doing nothing and that's not the case at all- I want upgrades after several years of mediocrity. You're completely IGNORING the fact that these guys had their opportunities and didn't go anywhere. Maybe not DiGiorgio because he's only been here a year, but still- you're the one who advocates getting rid of guys who don't fit the system, and now you want a twig-boy at MLB. Make up your mind.

who said that this team is gonna get SO much better because of one years experience?

In your world is they play like probowler in their first year, they blow.



You can deny it all you want, you say you hate the redskins but you think the way they do only that you hate the results at the end of the season.

[mysticsoto]

I don't necessarily know that it's obvious.

If Poz goes down and Crowell moves over and someone fills in for Crowell's other spot, it means you have one player out of position and one backup on the field, instead of just having a back up on the field.

I know that's what happens sometimes, but it seems more logical to maximize continuity as much as possible. Every change increases risk.

Change is a part of the game Op. The days where players stayed on a team throughout their career are long gone and the players that get to do that are far and few inbetween. Only the great studs get to do that now. Peyton Manning will likely end his career in Indy, LT will likely end his career in SD, etc. Everyone else will move around and year after year, each team will have numerous changes on the team. It's probably best to just get used to that.

[Pinkerton Security]

about Wire- our LB's have to drop into pass coverage in this D- if his problem at S was coverage, wouldn't that also be an issue as a cover 2 LB?

safeties in cover 2 have to cover the deep zones, which IMO is quite a bit different than dropping back to cover over the middle or even the deep flats. it may well be a concern though, and for the record i want coy on the field ONLY on ST.

[OpIv37]

who said that this team is gonna get SO much better because of one years experience?

In your world is they play like probowler in their first year, they blow.



You can deny it all you want, you say you hate the redskins but you think the way they do only that you hate the results at the end of the season.

Once again you assume the only way to do things are Marv's way and the Redskins way. I fail to see how wanting to replace players after 3-4 years of mediocrity is the same as going after every high-priced FA's on the market.

When you build through the draft you win some, and you lose some. The smart teams have more winner draft picks than loser draft picks and fill in the holes with FA. The dumb teams lose more than they win, or keep the same mediocrity on the roster for years hoping they'll eventually pan out.

[TedMock]

If that's the case, it means the coaches aren't doing everything in their power to win and that's extremely discouraging.

I think the coaches do what they can, but within the unwritten "rules." I agree that it could be discouraging, but it is what it is - welcome to pro sports.

[madness]

I don't necessarily know that it's obvious.

If Poz goes down and Crowell moves over and someone fills in for Crowell's other spot, it means you have one player out of position and one backup on the field, instead of just having a back up on the field.

I know that's what happens sometimes, but it seems more logical to maximize continuity as much as possible. Every change increases risk.

Have you looked at an NFL depth chart recently? Heck, even Madden geeks know this is a common practice in the NFL. Crowell has been our backup MLB before he even started playing on the outside so he wouldn't be out of position. That's the whole purpose of a depth chart. The coaching staff wouldn't put a player in that position unless they know they could actually play that position.

You're not getting out of this one. It was totally obvious.

[OpIv37]

Change is a part of the game Op. The days where players stayed on a team throughout their career are long gone and the players that get to do that are far and few inbetween. Only the great studs get to do that now. Peyton Manning will likely end his career in Indy, LT will likely end his career in SD, etc. Everyone else will move around and year after year, each team will have numerous changes on the team. It's probably best to just get used to that.


I should have been more specific- obviously there will be roster changes between seasons with FA and all that.

What I was referring to was continuity with a season or a game. When players get shuffled around too much, they are more likely to make mistakes.

[madness]

about Wire- our LB's have to drop into pass coverage in this D- if his problem at S was coverage, wouldn't that also be an issue as a cover 2 LB?

LB coverage is a lot more limited then secondary coverage. His weakness at S becomes a strength at LB.

[justasportsfan]

Once again you assume the only way to do things are Marv's way and the Redskins way. I fail to see how wanting to replace players after 3-4 years of mediocrity is the same as going after every high-priced FA's on the market. NO. Comprehension problems again.

Marv's way? Everyone like the colts and Pats do it. You're the only one labeling it as a MArv way.

If you were a PAts' fan when Bledsoe went down you by crying a river because his back up Brady didn't do anything significant in his first year. He's also too scrawny for a qb , weak arm and drafted in the 6th.



When you build through the draft you win some, and you lose some. The smart teams have more winner draft picks than loser draft picks and fill in the holes with FA. The dumb teams lose more than they win, or keep the same mediocrity on the roster for years hoping they'll eventually pan out.

well thank you captain obvious. However you cannot just say I've won some and lost some from a draft class that's played only 1 year. I thought that was obvious, Cpt.?

[OpIv37]

NO. Comprehension problems again.

Marv's way? Everyone like the colts and Pats do it. You're the only one labeling it as a MArv way.

If you were a PAts' fan when Bledsoe went down you by crying a river because his back up Brady didn't do anything significant in his first year. He's also too scrawny for a qb , weak arm and drafted in the 6th.




well thank you captain obvious. However you cannot just say I've won some and lost some from a draft class that's played only 1 year. I thought that was obvious, Cpt.?

1 year? News flash- Stamer and Haggan have been on the roster since 2003. There are players on this team who WEREN'T drafted by Marv and have been around more than 1 year. And they're not doing **** and need to be upgraded.

Why is it that this team hasn't won **** for years yet you continue to defend every single player on the team? What does it take for you to understand that we have to get BETTER and we're not going to do that with the same guys year after year?

[justasportsfan]

1 year? News flash- Stamer and Haggan have been on the roster since 2003. There are players on this team who WEREN'T drafted by Marv and have been around more than 1 year. And they're not doing **** and need to be upgraded. ?I was talking about Digiorgio. Stamer and Hagan have 1 year in the new system but I never said they were part of that draft class. Try to keep up will you?



Why is it that this team hasn't won **** for years yet you continue to defend every single player on the team? What does it take for you to understand that we have to get BETTER and we're not going to do that with the same guys year after year?

ahah! I defend every single player on this team after all teh back and forth we went with Spikes? You make things up when you start getting confused?

I give every player a chance under the circumstance at chance to compete for the job. I don't go around calling every player a bust unlike you.

You give up so soon. thats you. It's not me. I know what it takes to rebuild. You obviously don't .

You would've been b!tching about the players and coaches after the PAts 5-11 season when BB first came on board. You'd be *****ing about hiring BB since he had a crappier record than Jauron in their past Hc job.


Let me put it this way OP. I feel for people like Fletcher, Flutie , Zach Thomas ,etc.etc. who's had to battle people like you to make it because people like you say they're too small or whatever.


In a Nutshell I'd rather have 10 Fluties despite small in stature but big on heart on my team than 10 Manny Wright/ Mike Williams.

We all kow which one you belong to. :D


Have you ever seen a LEADER or an overachiever who's thinks the way you post?

[gr8slayer]

If Spikes and Fletch were still playing like All-Pro's, why did we let two All Pro's go? If they weren't playing like All-Pro's, why couldn't the guys we have crack the starting lineup? You can't have it both ways.
Spikes was an all-pro before the injury and Fletcher I honestly have no answer for. Perhaps because the Bills didn't think that he was worth the money he got at his age? It boggles my mind too, Spikes was easy though.

[OpIv37]

I was talking about Digiorgio. Stamer and Hagan have 1 year in the new system but I never said they were part of that draft class. Try to keep up will you?



ahah! I defend every single player on this team after all teh back and forth we went with Spikes? You make things up when you start getting confused?

I give every player a chance under the circumstance at chance to compete for the job. I don't go around calling every player a bust unlike you.

You give up so soon. thats you. It's not me. I know what it takes to rebuild. You obviously don't .

You would've been b!tching about the players and coaches after the PAts 5-11 season when BB first came on board. You'd be *****ing about hiring BB since he had a crappier record than Jauron in their past Hc job.


Let me put it this way OP. I feel for people like Fletcher, Flutie , Zach Thomas ,etc.etc. who's had to battle people like you to make it because people like you say they're too small or whatever.


In a Nutshell I'd rather have 10 Fluties despite small in stature but big on heart on my team than 10 Manny Wright/ Mike Williams.

We all kow which one you belong to. :D


Have you ever seen a LEADER or an overachiever who's thinks the way you post?

You didn't knock spikes until AFTER he was gone.

Having size and heart are not mutually exclusive- I'd rather have both.

What you're missing is that Stamer, Haggan and Wire HAVE had chances and they haven't done anything with them. You give these guys too many chances. At some point you have to say enough is enough. There's a difference between giving up on a player and moving on from a player who isn't working out. McCargo was mediocre last year but he only played a few games- cutting him now would be giving up. Tim Anderson, on the other hand, has been here since '03 and has sucked since '03. Cutting him would be moving on, not giving up.

As far as Digiorgio- our DL is undersized and now our LB's are undersized. SOMEONE on this team has to be big enough for their position. Plus, the examples you gave- Fletch, Zack Thomas, were undersized in terms of HEIGHT- they had a much lower center of gravity. It's easy to knock down someone who's 6'2, 230- it's a lot harder to knock down someone who's 5'9, 240.

[justasportsfan]

You didn't knock spikes until AFTER he was gone.

Having size and heart are not mutually exclusive- I'd rather have both.

What you're missing is that Stamer, Haggan and Wire HAVE had chances and they haven't done anything with them. You give these guys too many chances. At some point you have to say enough is enough. There's a difference between giving up on a player and moving on from a player who isn't working out. McCargo was mediocre last year but he only played a few games- cutting him now would be giving up. Tim Anderson, on the other hand, has been here since '03 and has sucked since '03. Cutting him would be moving on, not giving up.

As far as Digiorgio- our DL is undersized and now our LB's are undersized. SOMEONE on this team has to be big enough for their position. Plus, the examples you gave- Fletch, Zack Thomas, were undersized in terms of HEIGHT- they had a much lower center of gravity. It's easy to knock down someone who's 6'2, 230- it's a lot harder to knock down someone who's 5'9, 240.

the only reason is because you kept crying about losing an injured player even after he left I still said I would've wanted to keep him and taken a chance on him IF HE WANTED TO STAY. DUH!


Like i said, you have a redskins way of thinking. Guys like Steve Smith, Brady ,etc,etc, would've never made it on your world as draft picks but you would definitely hire them as soo as they became probowlers.

[OpIv37]

the only reason is because you kept crying about losing an injured player even after he left I still said I would've wanted to keep him and taken a chance on him IF HE WANTED TO STAY. DUH!


Like i said, you have a redskins way of thinking. Guys like Steve Smith, Brady ,etc,etc, would've never made it on your world as draft picks but you would definitely hire them as soo as they became probowlers.

and you're basing this on the fact that I don't like guys who have been here for 4 YEARS and done nothing or guys who are too small for their positions? That's ****ing ridiculous.

McCargo, Ellison, Williams and Simpson were less than stellar last year, but I have no problem giving them a year to develop. I don't think it's enough to make this D better but it's too early to cut them at this point. I don't like guys like Reed, Anderson, Stamer, Haggan, Wire, etc who have been around forever and never lived up to their potential or contributed (except maybe on ST).

But people like you defend those guys and want to give them chance after chance after chance after it's not helping the team win.

Did we give up on McGahee? Maybe JP and the OL were the problem- using your logic, he should be getting another chance.

[Jan Reimers]

I think he meant that if Poz goes down, Crowell would move to MLB and somebody would take over Crowell on the outside.
Absolutely. Crowell will be the starter on the outside and the backup in the middle.

I have never seen people jump so quickly to baseless, negative conclusions.

[justasportsfan]

and you're basing this on the fact that I don't like guys who have been here for 4 YEARS and done nothing or guys who are too small for their positions? That's ****ing ridiculous.

McCargo, Ellison, Williams and Simpson were less than stellar last year, but I have no problem giving them a year to develop. I don't think it's enough to make this D better but it's too early to cut them at this point. I don't like guys like Reed, Anderson, Stamer, Haggan, Wire, etc who have been around forever and never lived up to their potential or contributed (except maybe on ST).

But people like you defend those guys and want to give them chance after chance after chance after it's not helping the team win.

Did we give up on McGahee? Maybe JP and the OL were the problem- using your logic, he should be getting another chance.

Fine , fine. Let's give up on JP and Tripplett as well. They've been here long enough and haven't done anything significant last year.

[mysticsoto]

and you're basing this on the fact that I don't like guys who have been here for 4 YEARS and done nothing or guys who are too small for their positions? That's ****ing ridiculous.

McCargo, Ellison, Williams and Simpson were less than stellar last year, but I have no problem giving them a year to develop. I don't think it's enough to make this D better but it's too early to cut them at this point. I don't like guys like Reed, Anderson, Stamer, Haggan, Wire, etc who have been around forever and never lived up to their potential or contributed (except maybe on ST).

But people like you defend those guys and want to give them chance after chance after chance after it's not helping the team win.

Did we give up on McGahee? Maybe JP and the OL were the problem- using your logic, he should be getting another chance.

Okay, Op. But what do you want? To get rid of ALL our backups ? Where are we going to get new backups from? The undrafted? They do have some prospects they might look at there. Where else? You have a limited amt of things you can do in the offseason and in FA due to cap figures. Also keep in mind that you have to account for STs and just b'cse someone may be a good prospect that might be able to start or initially play back up to a starter, doesn't make them good on STs! So what ends up happening? You strike a balance between the two. Considering the above average ST we've had the last couple of years, I'd say the backups that we have on our team have been doing rather well!

Show me a team where all the backups are fantastic??? Every team likely excels in one area or another for their backups...right now, our strongest depth is probably at RB. Maybe even Oline if some of these new guys and last year's draft prospects pan out. You just can't have fantastic depth in every position. If you're expecting that, you will always be disappointed - year after year after year. That's just completely unrealistic and NO TEAM on the league has or will ever have that.

[justasportsfan]

I have never seen people jump so quickly to baseless, negative conclusions.

I have. Several times :D

[justasportsfan]

Okay, Op. But what do you want? To get rid of ALL our backups ? . I told you he wants us to do it the redskins way but brace yourself for a denial.

In Fantasyland He wants all our back ups to be starters and if not, he doesn't want them or they suck :coocoo:

[OpIv37]

Fine , fine. Let's give up on JP and Tripplett as well. They've been here long enough and haven't done anything significant last year.

we've been over the JP thing before- QB takes a lot more time than other positions, and changing QB's is a lot more disruptive than changing other positions, But I don't expect you to understand that. You think an undersized MLB in a cover 2 is okay because Steve Smith does well at WR even though he's undersized. Every position and every situation is exactly the same in your eyes.

When it comes to Tripplett, I would definitely like to replace him, but unfortunately there is no one better available at this point.

[OpIv37]

Okay, Op. But what do you want? To get rid of ALL our backups ? Where are we going to get new backups from? The undrafted? They do have some prospects they might look at there. Where else? You have a limited amt of things you can do in the offseason and in FA due to cap figures. Also keep in mind that you have to account for STs and just b'cse someone may be a good prospect that might be able to start or initially play back up to a starter, doesn't make them good on STs! So what ends up happening? You strike a balance between the two. Considering the above average ST we've had the last couple of years, I'd say the backups that we have on our team have been doing rather well!

Show me a team where all the backups are fantastic??? Every team likely excels in one area or another for their backups...right now, our strongest depth is probably at RB. Maybe even Oline if some of these new guys and last year's draft prospects pan out. You just can't have fantastic depth in every position. If you're expecting that, you will always be disappointed - year after year after year. That's just completely unrealistic and NO TEAM on the league has or will ever have that.


We have depth at RB and some OL depth and that's it- most teams have depth at more positions than that.

What would I have done? Not traded Spikes and drafted another LB, for starters. Maybe signed a FA LB. What can we do now? I don't really know, but it would be nice to not have 2-3 threads in 2 days about how great our LB depth is, because our LB depth sucks. It would also be nice to not have the homers constantly stick up for guys who don't do ****.

[justasportsfan]

we've been over the JP thing before- QB takes a lot more time than other positions, and changing QB's is a lot more disruptive than changing other positions, But I don't expect you to understand that. You think an undersized MLB in a cover 2 is okay because Steve Smith does well at WR even though he's undersized. Every position and every situation is exactly the same in your eyes.

When it comes to Tripplett, I would definitely like to replace him, but unfortunately there is no one better available at this point.


Bwahaha. Double standard. It surely didn't take Guys like Brees and McNair to switch teams and them make probowl. Just because you want JP to stay, the "it's a different position " trump card is out.

[justasportsfan]

What would I have done? Not traded Spikes and drafted another LB, for starters. Maybe signed a FA LB. :roflmao: great you'd have a very unhappy leader in the lockerroom because you didn't trade him and actually drafted his replacement. What you gonna do bench him?

Nice going . :snicker:

[OpIv37]

:roflmao: great you'd have a very unhappy leader in the lockerrroom because you didn't trade him and actually drafted his replacement. What you gonna do bench him?

Nice going . :snicker

Yeah, having no depth at LB is a MUCH better alternative :rolleyes:

[OpIv37]

Bwahaha. Double standard. It surely didn't take Guys like Brees and McNair to switch teams and them make probowl. Just because you want JP to stay, the "it's a different position " trump card is out.

You're ignorant if you can't see the difference between different positions. You want EVERY position and EVERY player treated exactly the same because you're too small minded to make the distinction.

And BTW, JP showed flashes of coming around last year. Tripplett had like 2 good games out of 16 and Stamer and Haggan have never done ****. So if you can't comprehend the difference in positions, maybe you can comprehend the diffence in performance. But probably not.

[justasportsfan]

Yeah, having no depth at LB is a MUCH better alternative :rolleyes:


:roflmao: a spreading cancer in the lockerroom is?

Spikes to his replacement:

"wait til' your times comes. they'll screw you in the booty like they're doing to me. Get out while you still can. It's not TO but TKO telling you this. Let my record as a team player speak for itself. I'm just watching out for you. Leave this org while you still can. Excuse me while I go over to Lee and talk to him about his contract extension with this team and then I have to whine some more to the press "


Nice GM'ing there OP.

[justasportsfan]

You're ignorant if you can't see the difference between different positions. You want EVERY position and EVERY player treated exactly the same because you're too small minded to make the distinction.

And BTW, JP showed flashes of coming around last year. Tripplett had like 2 good games out of 16 and Stamer and Haggan have never done ****. So if you can't comprehend the difference in positions, maybe you can comprehend the diffence in performance. But probably not.


Who's talking about Stamer and HAggan being starters anyways? If they had flashes of being starters then we wouldn't havd this conversation. We've have starters as our back ups and we'd be headed to the SB :laughing:

[OpIv37]

:roflmao: a spreading cancer in the lockerroom is?

Spikes to his replacement:

"wait til' your times comes. they'll screw you in the booty like they're doing to me. Get out while you still can. It's not TO but TKO telling you this. Let my record as a team player speak for itself. I'm just watching out for you. Leave this org while you still can. Excuse me while I go over to Lee and talk to him about his contract extension with this team and then I have to whine some more to the press "


Nice GM'ing there OP.

and how exactly does not being on the team preclude TKO from doing this anyway?

[OpIv37]

Who's talking about Stamer and HAggan being starters anyways? If they had flashes of being starters then we wouldn't havd this conversation. We've have starters as our back ups and we'd be headed to the SB :laughing:

we're one injury or a few crappy games by another LB away from them being starters. And even as depth they're not good enough. And there was an article yesterday about Jauron saying they're competing for starting jobs. So, yes, we are talkng about that.

[justasportsfan]

and how exactly does not being on the team preclude TKO from doing this anyway?
:laughing:
they gave in to his wishes, they traded him. It's better he talk crap all the way in Philly than in your lockerroom everyday. I'm not surprised you can't see that.

[OpIv37]

:laughing:
they gave in to his wishes, they traded him. It's better he talk crap all the way in Philly than in your lockerroom everyday. I'm not surprised you can't see that.

so, he's all bitter and pissed at the org to the point where he wants to be traded, then the second he's traded, he forgets that he's bitter and pissed? Get real.

[justasportsfan]

we're one injury or a few crappy games by another LB away from them being starters. And even as depth they're not good enough. And there was an article yesterday about Jauron saying they're competing for starting jobs. So, yes, we are talkng about that.


yeah and they are serviceable back ups or at least good enough to bring to the camp and battle it out . You're the only one who thinks that back ups should be starters before they even head to camp.

Someone forgot to tell you that only teams that have that kind of line ups and the ones that play in the probowl. :snicker:

[mysticsoto]

We have depth at RB and some OL depth and that's it- most teams have depth at more positions than that.

What would I have done? Not traded Spikes and drafted another LB, for starters. Maybe signed a FA LB. What can we do now? I don't really know, but it would be nice to not have 2-3 threads in 2 days about how great our LB depth is, because our LB depth sucks. It would also be nice to not have the homers constantly stick up for guys who don't do ****.

Spikes asked to leave. Do you want someone disgruntled in the locker room with a bunch of youngs guys bringing the chemistry Marv is trying to build on the team down?

Spikes may or may not recover well from his injury. I do know that Spikes was always several steps behind coverage last year and didn't look good. If he recovers, great. But it is likely that his style and diminished abilities after his recovery would likely not suit him to play in a cover 2 type defense.

In any case, Marv and Jauron have seen what our backup LBs have to offer and I would imagine that more than anything, they are happy with their STs play which is why they remain on the team. Would I like better LB depth...who wouldn't? But considering the need to strike balance, I think we are doing okay.

PS I'd like to know which teams do you think have better depth than ours and at what positions!

[justasportsfan]

so, he's all bitter and pissed at the org to the point where he wants to be traded, then the second he's traded, he forgets that he's bitter and pissed? Get real.


read the second part.

[justasportsfan]

Spikes asked to leave. Do you want someone disgruntled in the locker room with a bunch of youngs guys bringing the chemistry Marv is trying to build on the team down?

I already tried that. No success. You're never gonna change OP's mind. It's like talking to the Answer.

[OpIv37]

yeah and they are serviceable back ups or at least good enough to bring to the camp and battle it out . You're the only one who thinks that back ups should be starters before they even head to camp.

Someone forgot to tell you that only teams that have that kind of line ups and the ones that play in the probowl. :snicker:

they are not servicable back ups, and if there is an injury and they spend significant time on the field, you will see that. But by that point, it will be too late.

Just keep defending mediocrity then wondering why this team never gets any better.... you always lecture me about giving up, but then you're willing to look at guys like these and go "meh, good enough." :rolleyes:

[justasportsfan]

Just keep defending mediocrity then wondering why this team never gets any better.... you always lecture me about giving up, but then you're willing to look at guys like these and go "meh, good enough." :rolleyes:Okay so who are you going to start at special teams? Haggans and Stamers back ups :laughing:


BTW, answer the question. Who are you gonna start, TKO or his replacement?

[OpIv37]

Spikes asked to leave. Do you want someone disgruntled in the locker room with a bunch of youngs guys bringing the chemistry Marv is trying to build on the team down?

Spikes may or may not recover well from his injury. I do know that Spikes was always several steps behind coverage last year and didn't look good. If he recovers, great. But it is likely that his style and diminished abilities after his recovery would likely not suit him to play in a cover 2 type defense.

In any case, Marv and Jauron have seen what our backup LBs have to offer and I would imagine that more than anything, they are happy with their STs play which is why they remain on the team. Would I like better LB depth...who wouldn't? But considering the need to strike balance, I think we are doing okay.

PS I'd like to know which teams do you think have better depth than ours and at what positions!

And having no depth at LB is a better alternative? I don't know why everyone is convinced that Spikes would be locker room poison- he was never like that when he was here and the guy truly wants to win. You honestly think he would sabotage that over some tiff with management?

As far as other teams, I don't know their complete rosters well enough because I dont' follow them like I do with the Bills. However, every team has a few key players where an injury to them would most likely ruin their season, and no depth at a few other positions. But for most positions, there is someone who can step in and be mediocre in case of an injury.

On our team, our starters are mediocre and if there's one injury, we're tapping the bottom of the barrel. It's scary.

[OpIv37]

Okay so who are you going to start at special teams? Haggans and Stamers back ups :laughing:


BTW, answer the question. Who are you gonna start, TKO or his replacement?

you start whoever's playing better. Duh.

As far as ST, whoever replaces Stamer and Haggan could play ST. Duh.

[justasportsfan]

you start whoever's playing better. Duh.. and then we've have a Clements and Youboty situation all over again. If Spikes plays better, when he leaves next year, we'd be stuck with a lb'er who doesn't have any experience on the field .You'd be *****ing about a weak lb core again when Spikes leaves haha! .

Nice one GM . You certainly learned form past mistakes. :crazy:






As far as ST, whoever replaces Stamer and Haggan could play ST. Duh.:roflmao: And if they crap at special teams you'd have something to ***** about . Haha!

[JoeMama]

Not that I think he is gonna be a star in the NFL, just because of his height and weight, you cannot predict how he will do.

True.

Zach Thomas is only 5'11" 228lbs - and he's been a dominant middle linebacker for 10 years.

[OpIv37]

and then we've have a Clements and Youboty situation all over again. If Spikes plays better, when he leaves next year, we'd be stuck with a lb'er who doesn't have any experience on the field .You'd be *****ing about a weak lb core again when Spikes leaves haha! .

Nice one GM . You certainly learned form past mistakes. :crazy:




:roflmao: And if they crap at special teams you'd have something to ***** about . Haha!


Learning from past mistakes? Like not replacing departed players with the crap on the roster like we did with Pat Williams?

and what makes you so sure that any replacements would suck at ST? You act like Stamer and Haggan are the only guys we have who can play ST- they're not.

[justasportsfan]

Learning from past mistakes? Like not replacing departed players with the crap on the roster like we did with Pat Williams? .In case you missed it the FO is trying but is still in the developmental stage.Their names are Mccxargo and Williams (kyle) .


BTW, Stop using a player that would be gone in your world. You can't use PAt Williams, he wasn't drafted high. He'd be gone in a heartbeat in your world just like Digorgio or Brady or Zach,etc.

BTW, you can't cry about losing Fletcher either. He's too small to be a lb'er in your world.





and what makes you so sure that any replacements would suck at ST? You act like Stamer and Haggan are the only guys we have who can play ST- they're not. I never said I was sure but you want a replace a PROVEN ST players with an UNPROVEN ones? Why were you *****ing about replacing Spikes' with unproven players again? :laughing:

[OpIv37]

In case you missed it the FO is trying but is still in the developmental stage. Stop using a player that would be gone in your world. You can't use PAt Williams, he wasn't drafted high. He'd be gome in a heartbeat in your world just like Digorgio or Brady or Zach,etc.

BTW, you can't cry about losing Fletcher either. He's too small to be a lb'er in your world.
I never said I was sure but you want a replace a PROVEN ST players with an UNPROVEN ones? Why were you *****ing about replacing Spikes' with unproven players again? :laughing:

I don't know why the **** you keep saying that. I'm talking about players who have been here for a long ass time and not produced- and suddenly you're saying I'm not giving anyone a chance? WTF? You want to go in with a whole roster of unproven or underperforming players and hope for the best. Yeah, that'll work :rolleyes:

Fletcher was small but not lanky- I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you can't make the distinction between 5'10 230 an 6'2 230. Distinctions don't exist in your world.

And you're the one who wants to dump all the players who don't fit the system- well, how is a lanky, undersized MLB supposed to shed blockers and help in run support?

And who said Haggan and Stamer's replacements would have to be unproven at ST? Even if they were, I'd rather have unproven ST players than unproven defenders. The D is on the field a lot more than ST (especially THIS D).

[justasportsfan]

I don't know why the **** you keep saying that. I'm talking about players who have been here for a long ass time and not produced- and suddenly you're saying I'm not giving anyone a chance? WTF? You want to go in with a whole roster of unproven or underperforming players and hope for the best. Yeah, that'll work :rolleyes: ). let them battle it our at camp first before you start crying. You cry about Ellsion, Digorgio, Stamer, Hagan,etc. a slow lady driver, sheez...



Fletcher was small but not lanky- I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you can't make the distinction between 5'10 230 an 6'2 230. Distinctions don't exist in your world. ). like I said, JT is lanky , of course you won't accept that as an example because "it's not the same position :crazy:


And you're the one who wants to dump all the players who don't fit the system- well, how is a lanky, undersized MLB supposed to shed blockers and help in run support? ).
Yo, fit means ability. Not necesarily physique. You wouldn't understand, you can't even throw a football.

let them play first and then see. That's how it usually works not because fans pretend to be physique experts. If it were up to you Flutie wouldn't be a qb because he too short to see over his OL . Oh wait, here's comess the "different positon trump card "



And who said Haggan and Stamer's replacements would have to be unproven at ST? Even if they were, I'd rather have unproven ST players than unproven defenders. The D is on the field a lot more than ST (especially THIS D).
So if you grab proven lb'ers to replace Stamer nad Haggan ...then theyd be starters. Hmmm. I think you're back to the probowl team again or at least at reskins mode again..




Let me rest from laughing at your posts OP. Have a bit of work before I call it a weekend here at the office.

Keep Spikes and then draft his replacement . Classic :roflmao:

[John Doe]

DiGiorgio made the team last year because of a number of traits according Coach Jauron last year:

He has good speed - can really move.

He loves to hit and initiate contact.

He is highly motivated.

What I saw of him last year on special teams bore out that he has speed and hitter's mentality.

He had a spectacular college career.

He is young, probably improving, and can perhaps add some weight in the future.

I just don't see how anyone can conclude that this guy is incapable of providing viable depth based on what we know about him already.

[OpIv37]

let them battle it our at camp first before you start crying. You cry about Ellsion, Digorgio, Stamer, Hagan,etc. a slow lady driver, sheez...

like I said, JT is lanky , of course you won't accept that as an example because "it's not the same position :crazy:


Yo, fit means ability. Not necesarily physique. You wouldn't understand, you can't even throw a football.

let them play first and then see. That's how it usually works not because fans pretend to be physique experts. If it were up to you Flutie wouldn't be a qb because he too short to see over his OL . Oh wait, here's comess the "different positon trump card "



So if you grab proven lb'ers to replace Stamer nad Haggan ...then theyd be starters. Hmmm. I think you're back to the probowl team again or at least at reskins mode again..




Let me rest from laughing at your posts OP. Have a bit of work before I call it a weekend here at the office.

Keep Spikes and then draft his replacement . Classic :roflmao:

JT doesn't have to shed a block from a 240 lb wrecking ball fullback before making a tackle on a 200+ lb RB like a MLB does. He can operate in space and use his speed and reach to his advantage. Pick a better example.

When Flutie was here we had all kinds of screwy plays because of his size- every play was a shotgun snap or a roll-out so the midget could see. He had some success in the league, but it was aided by some creative play-calling. We don't have that luxury on D.

But hey- just keep defending mediocre players- at least then you'll know why we always get mediocre results on the field.

[madness]

Have you ever seen a LEADER or an overachiever who's thinks the way you post?

You obviously didn't see the comments that Polian made about Op...

"Polian praised Op's "incredible vision for what his teams and players could become," his "magnificent ability to articulate that vision," his "boundless kindness and empathy for his players and associates," and his "unconquerable will to persevere no matter what the obstacle or odds."

:evil:

I hope both of you aren't working right now. :shakeno:

[raphael120]

safeties in cover 2 have to cover the deep zones, which IMO is quite a bit different than dropping back to cover over the middle or even the deep flats. it may well be a concern though, and for the record i want coy on the field ONLY on ST.

I remember Coy Wire getting beat hardcore in coverage when he was covering the end zone and he was out of position EVERYTIME!!!!!

[justasportsfan]

JT doesn't have to shed a block from a 240 lb wrecking ball fullback before making a tackle on a 200+ lb RB like a MLB does. He can operate in space and use his speed and reach to his advantage. Pick a better example.

When Flutie was here we had all kinds of screwy plays because of his size- every play was a shotgun snap or a roll-out so the midget could see. He had some success in the league, but it was aided by some creative play-calling. We don't have that luxury on D.

But hey- just keep defending mediocre players- at least then you'll know why we always get mediocre results on the field.

You're right just like JT most DE's don't have to shed 240 lb. wrecking ball lb'ers. They only have to shed double teams and 340 lb players whicj JT does better than MOST DE"S way bigger than he is. DUH!!!!

In your world Leaf was a better Qb because he had the right size compared to Flutie.

BTW, that 7 years of reading ito people is a waste. You couldn't even read past that my defending Flutie has nothing to do with him being being mediocre. It's about players being able to overcome their size . Like I said, you wouldn't understand. The minute you thought you couldn't throw a football, you GAVE UP instead of working on it.

[justasportsfan]

I hope both of you aren't working right now. :shakeno:
I am :D .

[justasportsfan]

True.

Zach Thomas is only 5'11" 228lbs - and he's been a dominant middle linebacker for 10 years.


Looks like Op has you on ignore which is why he didn't respond to you or maybe Zach does not count either.

[OpIv37]

Looks like Op has you on ignore which is why he didn't respond to you or maybe Zach does not count either.

either that or maybe I already answered it twice in this thread- 6'2 230 is lanky and awkward- 5'11 228 is jacked.

[madness]

I am :D .

If Op isn't then I'm blaming him for distracting us from our work. There he goes, being a negative influence again. ;)

[OpIv37]

You're right just like JT most DE's don't have to shed 240 lb. wrecking ball lb'ers. They only have to shed double teams and 340 lb players whicj JT does better than MOST DE"S way bigger than he is. DUH!!!!

In your world Leaf was a better Qb because he had the right size compared to Flutie.

BTW, that 7 years of reading ito people is a waste. You couldn't even read past that my defending Flutie has nothing to do with him being being mediocre. It's about players being able to overcome their size . Like I said, you wouldn't understand. The minute you thought you couldn't throw a football, you GAVE UP instead of working on it.

The OL that go against JT are backpeddling as he's moving forward and he has the space to work around them. They dont' come streaking at him like a missile, like the RB or the FB do in the middle of the D. And even if they did, he's fast enough to get around them cuz 340 lb OL's don't move as fast as RB's and FB's. But once again, you can't make the decision.

Players can overcome their size- so what? A lot of them can't. YOU'RE the one always looking for players who fit the D, now YOU'RE advocating for players who don't fit the size because some other player at another position was able to overcome his size? That's awful logic yet again.

And I have no idea where that thing about me throwing a football came from.

[EDS]

Bwahaha. Double standard. It surely didn't take Guys like Brees and McNair to switch teams and them make probowl. Just because you want JP to stay, the "it's a different position " trump card is out.

I don't get it. Both Brees and McNair played great for the teams that drafted them.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I'm sure a lot of these guys had first round grades.

We'll be fine.

[justasportsfan]

I don't get it. Both Brees and McNair played great for the teams that drafted them.
moved from one system to another. Jp gets a pass for not doing anything uner Jauron.

[HHURRICANE]

I actually saw this guy play for Saginaw against Mercyhurst, The guy dominated at the DII level,

:frog:

[Philagape]

Wow, when I saw this thread in the forum, I wondered "How can a thread about DiGiorgio have more than five pages?" Then, before I opened it, I answered myself, "Op and Justa!" Sure enough ....

[gr8slayer]

Wow, when I saw this thread in the forum, I wondered "How can a thread about DiGiorgio have more than five pages?" Then, before I opened it, I answered myself, "Op and Justa!" Sure enough ....
Hey *******, don't forget about me :mad:

[ShadowHawk7]

Your same argument can be made about new players not being able to overthrow our current depth. Why should they be on the team if they can't outplay depth players like Stamer and Haggan?



The problem is, we haven't given anyone the chance to outplay our depth players. Aside from the yearly UDFA's and then Poz, we haven't brought in legitmate players to really test the quality of our backups. And our backups have not proven they can be even average starters in this league, altough I believe Stamer could be decent.

[ublinkwescore]

Fullbacks, TE's, OL's, plus power runners like McGahee or Turner will light him up.

I think I might send you some Zoloft.