Scott Wright slams Miami's draft choices

[mysticsoto]

D+
____________________________________________
Miami Dolphins '07 Draft Review

Perhaps no team made bigger waves in the first round of the 2007 NFL Draft than the Dolphins when they passed on Brady Quinn. Whether or not that was the right move remains to be seen but how this class is viewed down the road will basically come down to Quinn and if he turns into a star the franchise might have a hard time recovering. Let's take a look at the guys they did select though.

When Miami was on the clock with the #9 overall pick everybody thought it was a foregone conclusion that Quinn was their guy but instead they stunned the football would by selecting Ohio St. wide receiver Ted Ginn. Now I always say that the golden rule of the NFL Draft is that unless you already have a franchise quarterback you don't pass on one but that's exactly what the Dolphins did and who they passed on Quinn for makes it all that much worse. There is no denying that Ginn has special speed but as a wide receiver he is very raw and even his biggest supporters would probably admit that it's unlikely he'll ever develop into a true elite #1 target at the pro level. Granted Ginn is an excellent return man and the success Devin Hester had last year certainly brought more attention to that aspect of the game however Ginn is not really in Hester's class as a returner and you have to ask yourself if you took special teams out of the equation would Ginn still have gone as high as he did? I think the answer to that question is no. Personally I want more than a #2 or #3 wideout and return specialist for my Top 10 overall pick. Furthermore, Ginn has some durability issues and at the time of the draft he was only about 75-80% recovered from an ankle injury that he suffered in January. Apparently he is a slow healer and with his slight, 180 lbs. frame injuries are going to be a very real concern. In the end I think Miami became enamored with Ginn's speed and return skills and ignored some pretty major warning signs so in my opinion the bust potential with him is high and even in a best-case scenario he might never be worthy of such a lofty pick.


http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/features/reviews/teams/miamidolphins.html

[LtFinFan66]

I discount everything he said simply because he said "Ginn has durability issues". That right there showed his ignorance. Ginn got hurt when getting piled on during a celebration in his last college game and that was it. Durability issues:meh:

[mayotm]

Same old crap. Giving out grades the day after the draft is moronic. Sure it's fun to talk about, but some people take it way too seriously. I would love for somebody to do a 5 year study of the grades the so called "experts" have given out and how accurate they were.

[casdhf]

I don't fault the Fins for passing on Quinn, but I think Ginn was a very risky pick, especially given the age of their defense.

[Jan Reimers]

Way too early to judge. I certainly hope not - and I don't think so - but who's to say at this point that Ginn and Beck won't go down as the most prolific WR/QB combo of all time?

[casdhf]

me

[LtFinFan66]

you don't count

[Pinkerton Security]

I discount everything he said simply because he said "Ginn has durability issues". That right there showed his ignorance. Ginn got hurt when getting piled on during a celebration in his last college game and that was it. Durability issues:meh:

While I semi-agree with you (people love to label people injury prone), I am concerned for his durability because of something else, that Wright actually mentioned: the guy weighs 180 pounds! Not that that means he is going to get hurt, but he is 3 inches taller than Roscoe and only weights 12 pounds more. I am scared for Roscoe's life every time he scoots around the field, and Ginn is even more emaciated. I almost feel like cheering for him since he is so exciting when he takes off, but then again i am still a Bills fan, so lets hope Wrights durability concerns turn out to be true.

[OpIv37]

Last year when Marv's draft got slammed in the immediate aftermath, the general consensus on this board was that the draftniks don't know what they're talking about and we have to see what happens on the field. If this is true, it would be hypocritical to laugh at the Dolphins' draft at this point in time.

While I agree that some of Miami's picks must've seemed puzzling to their fans, time will tell.

[patmoran2006]

I don't fault the Fins for passing on Quinn, but I think Ginn was a very risky pick, especially given the age of their defense.
Agreed..

I dont necessarily think passing on Quinn was the wrong thing. Maybe they didn't have him graded that high in comparison to Beck, Kolb and Edwards- or maybe they think Trent Green can give them 2 good years.

But I do agree that I dont like the Ginn pick.. It comes with too many risks and he wasn't exactly a consistent All-World WR in college either.

If I was a Miami fan, I'd have wanted the team to take an impact player on front seven with the 9th pick. I would've been happy with Okoye, Willis or Carriker. There were plenty of good WR's in round two (Jarrett, Sidney Rice) that they could've tabbed. And still probably got Beck as well if that's the guy they liked.

I look at each team in the division non-biased, but I think Ginn was a really bad selection.

[dolphan117]

I always love it when a writer says
[qoute]Whether or not that was the right move remains to be seen[/quote] And then promtly hands out draft grades. :chuckle:

[HHURRICANE]

D+


I'd say C-.

[Bills232]

Last year when Marv's draft got slammed in the immediate aftermath, the general consensus on this board was that the draftniks don't know what they're talking about and we have to see what happens on the field. If this is true, it would be hypocritical to laugh at the Dolphins' draft at this point in time.

While I agree that some of Miami's picks must've seemed puzzling to their fans, time will tell.


Why does everyone act like we had such an amazing draft last year?

It was very mediocre IMO..

[Pinkerton Security]

Why does everyone act like we had such an amazing draft last year?

It was very mediocre IMO..

i dont see anywhere in that post that he stated we had an amazing draft

[OpIv37]

i dont see anywhere in that post that he stated we had an amazing draft

I think the jury's still out on the draft class but I agree for the most part. Most of the "starters" from last year's draft were starting because our team was so bad and not because they were so good. On most teams they never would have seen the field.

But, we'll see what they can do because we still don't have anyone better.

[YoungMoney]

sounds about right.

[Mitchy moo]

Lemon to Ginn sounds more like a drink than a prolific passing combo (which fin fans will need after this season).

[feelthepain]

While I semi-agree with you (people love to label people injury prone), I am concerned for his durability because of something else, that Wright actually mentioned: the guy weighs 180 pounds! Not that that means he is going to get hurt, but he is 3 inches taller than Roscoe and only weights 12 pounds more. I am scared for Roscoe's life every time he scoots around the field, and Ginn is even more emaciated. I almost feel like cheering for him since he is so exciting when he takes off, but then again i am still a Bills fan, so lets hope Wrights durability concerns turn out to be true.

Care to guess how much Marvin Harrison weights??

[Pinkerton Security]

Care to guess how much Marvin Harrison weights??

Nope but I am scared for him too, why do you think he falls over anytime he catches a ball anywhere other than the sidelines? Im not saying hes gonna fall apart the moment he touches the field, i am just saying PERHAPS there is a legitimate concern if he doesnt put on a little extra muscle.

Besides, if you're gonna compare the 2, lets compare their route running skills....

[feelthepain]

Last year when Marv's draft got slammed in the immediate aftermath, the general consensus on this board was that the draftniks don't know what they're talking about and we have to see what happens on the field. If this is true, it would be hypocritical to laugh at the Dolphins' draft at this point in time.

While I agree that some of Miami's picks must've seemed puzzling to their fans, time will tell.

I think the whole booing thing with Dolphin fans stemed from the fact that we all fell for the hype and BS being spewed by Mayock and Kiper over Quinn's ability and future. Obviously Quinn has enough question marks that he slid to the area Aaron Rogers was drafted by the Pack. It's really telling, that many teams (besides Miami) that also needed a QB passed on Quinn. I think Miami is in better shape at QB then the Browns or Vikes and even the Redskins, but they all passed on Quinn.

Brady has enough issues that paying him the kind of money he would have been paid as a top 10 pick, teams weren't willing to pay. These draft experts seem to lose site of the fact that the teams do more intense scouting then they do, not to mention that the team evaluators are much better at it then the likes of Mayock and Kiper, but for some reason everyone in the world is listening to these guy's. Well I for one will have less interest in the future to what those guy's have to say.

You can't blame fin fans for being upset on draft day, we weren't the only ones listening to Mayock and Kiper. I'll bet the GM's and scouts must have a real good laugh at the likes of Kiper and Mayock, cause they spend months before the draft talking about how great a player (Brady Quinn) is and what an awsome pro he will be, then he sits in the green room for hours and hours looking like someone kicked his dog.

I spent more time studying Quinn and believeing he would be the answer, never giving much thought to Ginn, then we take Ginn and I start watching Film and reading up on him and his career in HS and College and you start to realize the amount of talent the guy has. Miami's biggest problem over the last 6 years has been scoring, Ginn instantly helps in that department, not just as a WR, but a KR/PR too.

For those who think Ginn is afraid to go over the Middle....60% of his completions at OSU as a WR were across the middle of the field. He's also very tough, he takes big hits and keeps going, he's probably in the top 8 fastest players in the NFL at this point, with Chambers speed on the other side and Hagan and Booker, we have four WR's capapble of moving the chains, and an isntant KR/PR threat. Basically upgrading our ability to score.

With the defense we have Ginn was an excelent addition and value at #9. We also have Ronnie Brown and Lorenzo Booker two very different types of backs one with scary speed and elusivness in Booker, who BTW could also line up in the slot and burn any LB that lines up across form him, but a brusing RB in Ronnie Brown who also has great hands and blocking skills.

As if that weren't enough we also have Corey Schlesinger at the FB position one of the best in the game. Miami's offense at the skill position is a whole lot better now then it was last year. We drafted the 2nd best C/G in the draft this year in Samson Satele and moved Vernon Carey from RT to LT. We also brought in quite a few veteran T's and G's to compete for a starting spot. Miami's Oline wasn't as bad as some of you think it was last year, we will have an Improved Oline guaranteed!!

Now to top it all off, we have one of the best OC and QB coaches in the league the last 5 years in Cam Cameron, our play calling won't be the same basic stuff we've been running much of the last 6 years, we will stretch the field and use every inch of it and teams will have to cover everything. No more stacking the box and blitzing off the edge. Miami will make teams pay this year we will score a lot more points!

[Pinkerton Security]

I think the whole booing thing with Dolphin fans stemed from the fact that we all fell for the hype and BS being spewed by Mayock and Kiper over Quinn's ability and future. Obviously Quinn has enough question marks that he slid past the area Aaron Rogers was drafted by the Pack. It's really telling, that many teams (besides Miami) that also needed a QB passed on Quinn. I think Miami is in better shape at QB then the Browns or Vikes and even the Redskins, but they all passed on Quinn.

Brady has enough issues that paying him the kind of money he would have been paid as a top 10 pick, teams weren't willing to pay. These draft experts seem to lose site of the fact that the teams do more intense scouting then they do, not to mention that the team evaluators are much better at it then the likes of Mayock and Kiper, but for some reason everyone in the world is listening to these guy's. Well I for one will have less interest in the future to what those guy's have to say.

You can't blame fin fans for being upset on draft day, we weren't the only ones listening to Mayock and Kiper. I'll bet the GM's and scouts must have a real good laugh at the likes of Kiper and Mayock, cause they spend months before the draft talking about how great a player (Brady Quinn) is and what an awsome pro he will be, then he sits in the green room for hours and hours looking like someone kicked his dog.

I spent more time studying Quinn and believeing he would be the answer, never giving much thought to Ginn, then we take Ginn and I start watching Film and reading up on him and his career in HS and College and you start to realize the amount of talent the guy has. Miami's biggest problem over the last 6 years has been scoring, Ginn instantly helps in that department, not just as a WR, but a KR/PR too.

For those who think Ginn is afraid to go over the Middle....60% of his completions at OSU as a WR were across the middle of the field. He's also very tough, he takes big hits and keeps going, he's probably in the top 8 fastest players in the NFL at this point, with Chambers speed on the other side and Hagan and Booker, we have four WR's capapble of moving the chains, and an isntant KR/PR threat. Basically upgrading our ability to score.

With the defense we have Ginn was an excelent addition and value at #9. We also have Ronnie Brown and Lorenzo Booker to very different types of backs one with scary speed and elusivness in Booker, who BTW could also line up in the slot and burn any LB that lines up across form him, but a brusing RB in Ronnie Brown who also has great hands and blocking skills.

As if that weren't enough we also have Corey Schlesinger at the FB position one of the best in the game. Miami's offense at the skill position is a whole lot better now then it was last year. We drafted the 2nd best C/G in the draft this year in Samson Satele and moved Vernon Carey from RT to LT. We also brought in quite a few veteran T's and G's to compete for a starting spot. Miami's Oline wasn't as bad as some of you think it was last year, we will have an Improved Oline guaranteed!!

Now to top it all off, we have one of the best OC and QB coaches in the league the last 5 years in Cam Cameron, our play calling won't be the same basic stuff we've been running much of the last 6 years, we will stretch the field and use every inch of it and teams will have to cover everything. No more stacking the box and blitzing off the edge. Miami will make teams pay this year we will score a lot more points!

Very nice writeup, but do you feel comfortable with your qb situation? I know I wouldnt be.

[feelthepain]

Very nice writeup, but do you feel comfortable with your qb situation? I know I wouldnt be.

Well, I don't feel worse. I do know Daunte is closer to healthy now then he was a year ago. Daunte also says he'll be ready for the next camp in June. Cam likes Cleo Lemon and Cleo has been in the Air Coyell system before with Cam in San Diego. We could still get Green and we used a 2n round pick on a young QB that comes with lots of upside considering his body of work in college along with his maturity. I do feel good about the QB position because I feel cam will give whomever the QB is far more options at the snap of the ball.

If you consider the nice additions to the offense that we singed in FA, like Schlesinger and Martin or the draft in Booker and Ginn those players elevate the talent at the skill positions on our team, you add Cams system and we will be a whole different team this year. Remember, Miami finished the season last year 20th over all on offense, if we could just improve 7 or 8 spots on offense, we could be a much imporved team. We already have a top 5 defense.

You also have to understand, many teams would struggle if their #1 QB went down with an injury and missed most of the season or was too injured to start at 100% healthy game one, like Daunte last year. Miami still beat some very good teams last year, but lacked consistency. Given Joey Harringtons issues in Detroit, going to Miami wasn't exactly the ideal situaion coming from the Lions.

His confidence was still shacky and he had very limited action with the Dolphin players and schemes before he was thrown into the fire. It was all pretty much the worst case scenario for the Dolphns in every way last year offensively, but we still beat the Pats, Bears and Chiefs three playoff teams and we were 5-2 at one point last year after Joey started. Not bad considering how little time Joey was exposed to the scheme and players before he started last year.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

D+
____________________________________________
Miami Dolphins '07 Draft Review

Perhaps no team made bigger waves in the first round of the 2007 NFL Draft than the Dolphins when they passed on Brady Quinn. Whether or not that was the right move remains to be seen but how this class is viewed down the road will basically come down to Quinn and if he turns into a star the franchise might have a hard time recovering. Let's take a look at the guys they did select though.

When Miami was on the clock with the #9 overall pick everybody thought it was a foregone conclusion that Quinn was their guy but instead they stunned the football would by selecting Ohio St. wide receiver Ted Ginn. Now I always say that the golden rule of the NFL Draft is that unless you already have a franchise quarterback you don't pass on one but that's exactly what the Dolphins did and who they passed on Quinn for makes it all that much worse. There is no denying that Ginn has special speed but as a wide receiver he is very raw and even his biggest supporters would probably admit that it's unlikely he'll ever develop into a true elite #1 target at the pro level. Granted Ginn is an excellent return man and the success Devin Hester had last year certainly brought more attention to that aspect of the game however Ginn is not really in Hester's class as a returner and you have to ask yourself if you took special teams out of the equation would Ginn still have gone as high as he did? I think the answer to that question is no. Personally I want more than a #2 or #3 wideout and return specialist for my Top 10 overall pick. Furthermore, Ginn has some durability issues and at the time of the draft he was only about 75-80% recovered from an ankle injury that he suffered in January. Apparently he is a slow healer and with his slight, 180 lbs. frame injuries are going to be a very real concern. In the end I think Miami became enamored with Ginn's speed and return skills and ignored some pretty major warning signs so in my opinion the bust potential with him is high and even in a best-case scenario he might never be worthy of such a lofty pick.


http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/features/reviews/teams/miamidolphins.html
There are so many holes in this guys logic, it's too funny.

1. He assumes Quinn is a franchise QB. That is not universally accepted by any means. An argument could be made that Detroit, Cleveland, Tampa, Washington, Minn., Buffalo, NYJ, GB, Jacksonville, and Dallas don't have franchise QBs either. They all passed on Quinn too. KC didn't try to get him either.

2. Everbody did not think Quinn was a foregone conclusion. Just before the Ginn pick, Gil Brandt called it, on the air.

3. He has no idea what Ginn's biggest supporters think. I'm pretty sure his father, Cameron and Mueller are his biggest supporters. Care to guess what they think?

4. Why does he think Ginn is not in Hester's class as a returner.

From his freshman season:

Ginn excelled on special teams as a returner, where his four punt returns for touchdowns set a school and Big Ten single-season record and tied an NCAA record. Ginn also led the NCAA with 25.6 yards per punt return, which was an Ohio State single-season record as well.
sophomore season:

Ginn's 532 yards in kick returns is the second highest season total in Buckeye history
5. He wonders where Ginn would have been picked if he wasn't a great returner as well. How stupid is that? He IS a great returner. Here's another opinion on Ginn:


Ginn's value as a big-play receiver & kick returner was proven in the 2006 season. Ginn (6-0, 180 pounds) has decent size, but it's his second-to-none speed that has NFL teams very interested. Ginn could immediately handle kick and punt returns for whoever selects him, so that greatly enhances his value. There are severe doubts that he will never be a 100-catch guy, but Ginn's potential to go all the way every time he touches the ball is undeniable. Because of that, he will be the second or third WR selected in the draft, probably just outside the top 10.
6. As already noted, Ginn doesn't have durability issues. He didn't miss a single start in college.

7. He claims Ginn is a "slow healer". How long should it take to recover from this kind of injury? Maybe he is ahead of schedule.

8. Even in a best-case scenario he might never be worthy of the pick. What if Ginn goes on to set receiving records and makes multiple trips to the probowl? What a stupid statement to make.


This is my feeling about the Ginn pick:

Clearly big plays have been lacking from the Fins offense and special teams for years. They must be able to stretch the defense or teams will continue to put 8 men in the box. Put a QB on the field that makes quick decisions and gets the ball to a WR on a hot route accurately and you will see teams back off. When they see Ginn break a few slants, screens, and bombs for TDs, the defenses will keep safeties back. They will be less likely to blitz at every opportunity. They will not gang up on the run. Those changes will make the OL better without any personnel changes.

Our OL has been at a disadvantage for several years because our offense could not make them pay for playing an aggressive, high-risk defense. Questionable QB play and the lack of a big play threat let opposing defenses tee off on our OL.

If Ginn turns out like Cam and Mueller think he will, that pick will make Ronnie Brown, the entire OL, the QB, the TE, and Chris Chambers better players. How many other draft picks can you say that about?

Clearly the Fins need to resolve their QB issues as well, but Ginn can certainly have a big impact. I think most of these writers are pissed that the Fins screwed up their scores on their mock drafts.

[Ingtar33]

The world's got to be breaking in half, I think this is the 3rd time in three tries I’ve read a FTP post and agreed with a lot of what he had to say.

(just writing that line made me stab a Miami dolphin plushy with a kitchen fork)

Anyway, you're right Kiper was viewed as a joke in the draft rooms, though we all had a copy of his stuff. Because if there was one thing he was good at, it was smoozing some people in scouting departments, and getting a good feel for what other teams were thinking. Well, what they wanted him to think they were thinking

That’s not saying NFL teams don't mess up.

There is a level of uncertainty to the draft that makes it a bit of a crapshoot, and what you want is a personnel department that knows how to make safe and educated bets. The result is that while occasionally teams will have bad drafts, or make odd decisions, over the long run they'll come out ahead.

While you call some of Marv's picks "reaches," a lot of GMs call them "safe," in that he's taking a sure thing over an uncertain thing, even if it's a little higher then you necessarily would like to take him. (that's right, there is such a thing as a sure pick at 10-20, who does not grade out higher then a not sure specimen at picks 1-10)

Marv's draft scored last year because it was a solid draft that netted a bushel full of defensive players who were able to start and play at the nfl level immediately.

It remains to be seen if it will net any "franchise players"

As to Brady Quinn. Quinn suffered a version of the Dan Marino Effect (that is in no ways a comparison of Quinn to Dan Marino). The Dan Marino effect was described to me by a friend of mine when i got into college scouting. He said, that the longer you watch a player the more of their game you see, and the more of his game you see the more flaws you will find. The more flaws you find will cause you to undervalue the player's talent. This happens to every NFL scouting department, causing strange draft day flops, guys who later would turn out to be good.

*note: Dan Marino was hands down the best quarterback in college football in 1983, but due to increased scrutiny and unfounded rumors of steroid abuse, his stock plummeted. Even though those steroid rumors were squashed well before the draft, teams had started to hyper analyze Marino (because of the scandal) and pick apart everything about his game to the point they convinced themselves he was a system quarterback, not the real deal.

The opposite can happen as well:

Look at Joey Harrington, Akili Smith, Kyle Boller and Ryan Leaf. All had one good year, and only started a handful of games, all were physical specimens, and all played out in the PAC 10, where most NFL GMs/Owners, and "draftniks" don't watch the games (btw: those of you who don't think the owners of nfl teams don't mess up the draft you're living in another world. most use their nfl teams like their own fantasy teams, and they unfortunately DO read mel kiper. You want to know frustrating? 20 guys studying film and analyzing players to come up with a carefully sellected group of guys you're targeting only to have on draft day the owner put his foot down and go after the flashy sports car who espn keeps shoving a camera in the face of, while Kiper rants).

In my experience the more games a quarterback plays in college the more NFL ready he is, and the more likely he is to succeed at the nfl level. (I had a rule of thumb, which was to avoid the QBs who started less then 15 games in their college career, and be weary of anyone who started less then 25). The Teams that passed on Quinn will live to regret it as he was far more ready for the NFL then Russell, and far more likely to succeed immediately.

[The Spaz]

Eevn the coach said "we have ourselves a great kick/punt returner". Good job Miami.:up:

[The Spaz]

The world's got to be breaking in half, I think this is the 3rd time in three tries I’ve read a FTP post and agreed with a lot of what he had to say.

(just writing that line made me stab a Miami dolphin plushy with a kitchen fork)

Anyway, you're right Kiper was viewed as a joke in the draft rooms, though we all had a copy of his stuff. Because if there was one thing he was good at, it was smoozing some people in scouting departments, and getting a good feel for what other teams were thinking. Well, what they wanted him to think they were thinking

That’s not saying NFL teams don't mess up.

There is a level of uncertainty to the draft that makes it a bit of a crapshoot, and what you want is a personnel department that knows how to make safe and educated bets. The result is that while occasionally teams will have bad drafts, or make odd decisions, over the long run they'll come out ahead.

While you call some of Marv's picks "reaches," a lot of GMs call them "safe," in that he's taking a sure thing over an uncertain thing, even if it's a little higher then you necessarily would like to take him. (that's right, there is such a thing as a sure pick at 10-20, who does not grade out higher then a not sure specimen at picks 1-10)

Marv's draft scored last year because it was a solid draft that netted a bushel full of defensive players who were able to start and play at the nfl level immediately.

It remains to be seen if it will net any "franchise players"

As to Brady Quinn. Quinn suffered a version of the Dan Marino Effect (that is in no ways a comparison of Quinn to Dan Marino). The Dan Marino effect was described to me by a friend of mine when i got into college scouting. He said, that the longer you watch a player the more of their game you see, and the more of his game you see the more flaws you will find. The more flaws you find will cause you to undervalue the player's talent. This happens to every NFL scouting department, causing strange draft day flops, guys who later would turn out to be good.

*note: Dan Marino was hands down the best quarterback in college football in 1983, but due to increased scrutiny and unfounded rumors of steroid abuse, his stock plummeted. Even though those steroid rumors were squashed well before the draft, teams had started to hyper analyze Marino (because of the scandal) and pick apart everything about his game to the point they convinced themselves he was a system quarterback, not the real deal.

Look at Joey Harrington, Akili Smith, Kyle Boller and Ryan Leaf. All had one good year, and only started a handful of games, all were physical specimens, and all played out in the PAC 10, where most NFL GMs/Owners, and "draftniks" don't watch the games (btw: those of you who don't think the owners of nfl teams don't mess up the draft you're living in another world. most use their nfl teams like their own fantasy teams, and they unfortunately DO read mel kiper. You want to know frustrating? 20 guys studying film and analyzing players to come up with a carefully sellected group of guys you're targeting only to have on draft day the owner put his foot down and go after the flashy sports car who espn keeps shoving a camera in the face of, while Kiper rants).

In my experience the more games a quarterback plays in college the more NFL ready he is, and the more likely he is to succeed at the nfl level. (I had a rule of thumb, which was to avoid the guys who started less then 15 games in their college career, and be weary of anyone who started less then 25). The Teams that passed on Quinn will live to regret it as he was far more ready for the NFL then Russell, and far more likely to succeed immediately.

Give us a breakdown on what you thought of the Bills draft please.:beers:

[feelthepain]

In my experience the more games a quarterback plays in college the more NFL ready he is, and the more likely he is to succeed at the nfl level. (I had a rule of thumb, which was to avoid the QBs who started less then 15 games in their college career, and be weary of anyone who started less then 25). The Teams that passed on Quinn will live to regret it as he was far more ready for the NFL then Russell, and far more likely to succeed immediately.

This is where I question the Jamarcus Russell pick. He has by far the least amount of starts in college, but he's talked about lilke a God. I realize his arm is no Joke, but neither is Michael Vicks arm. However I would rather have Kelly Holcomb as my QB, then Michael Vick.
Arm strength is the last thing I would want if I had to choose a strength in a QB. I'd take smarts, good decision making , good pocket presence, eliusivness, good feet, the ability to read defenses, accuracy all before I take strong arm.

[Bling]

I wish we went with the QB. You always go for the QB, but I don't hate the Ginn pick anymore. I agree that we've lacked a deep threat for years. He's going to be a beast with Chambers. Will be at least a top 10 tandem.


But nothing outweighs, a franchise QB. Even a good QB is better than a top 5 WR, imo. If Quinn is a good QB in this league, I'll be pissed.

[HHURRICANE]

but who's to say at this point that Ginn and Beck won't go down as the most prolific WR/QB combo of all time?:lmao:

[HHURRICANE]

I wish we went with the QB. You always go for the QB, but I don't hate the Ginn pick anymore. I agree that we've lacked a deep threat for years. He's going to be a beast with Chambers. Will be at least a top 10 tandem.

But nothing outweighs, a franchise QB. Even a good QB is better than a top 5 WR, imo. If Quinn is a good QB in this league, I'll be pissed.

If I were a Miami fan the thing that I would be pissed about is the Brees miss. This guy would have been an awesome pickup. Rookies are hit and miss so who's to say that Beck isn't the best QB in the draft vs. Quinn.

[Ingtar33]

I’m not in scouting anymore, but it was sort of funny, as the guys i work with and I talked about the NFL draft 2 weeks before it happened (we're all in the sport and all fans of different teams), and we decided to put a little money down on who each of our favorite teams were going to take in round no.1

We each were allowed 2 picks.

Mine were Poz and Lynch. Needless to say i was thrilled (I like being just a fan on draft day by the way, its a pleasant change of pace).

How did I hit on it? What magic did I use? Nothing other then common sense.

1) it was a given some team would overlook Peterson's fragile body, and take him in the top 10
2) we traded away McGahee
3) Lynch was as good as Peterson (if not better), had less mileage, and played in the PAC 10, easily the 2nd best in college football last year (sorry Big 10 and Big 12, you were nothing to the PAC 10 and SEC)

I figured if Lynch was picked before buffalo we'd take Poz

1) Poz was hands down the best player in the country on defense in 2005.
2) He had a dominating 2nd half to 2006, after adjusting to the knee brace and the new position
3) He's faster then he looks (he runs stiff with little motion, which makes him look slower then he is, in reality he has an explosive step, and great anticipation which gets him to the ball far faster then it looks like he's moving), and is a standout run stuffer.
4) best run stuffer, and probably the 2nd best pass defender of this year's Line Backers.

I never thought he'd fall out of the first round, though knew it was a slight possibility (linebackers always fall a little farther then you'd expect)

The top two alone made me happy with the draft. The rest was simply safe picks designed to restock the depth of the team.

I would have liked them to address CB, but when you get past round 2, you’re basically searching for anyone who can step in and play immediately; perhaps there wasn’t anyone on the board left.

Btw: thanks to the Poz pick I won the tiebreaker, and took home $80

[The Spaz]

I’m not in scouting anymore, but it was sort of funny, as the guys i work with and I talked about the NFL draft 2 weeks before it happened (we're all in the sport and all fans of different teams), and we decided to put a little money down on who each of our favorite teams were going to take in round no.1

We each were allowed 2 picks.

Mine were Poz and Lynch. Needless to say i was thrilled (I like being just a fan on draft day by the way, its a pleasant change of pace).

How did I hit on it? What magic did I use? Nothing other then common sense.

1) it was a given some team would overlook Peterson's fragile body, and take him in the top 10
2) we traded away McGahee
3) Lynch was as good as Peterson (if not better), had less mileage, and played in the PAC 10, easily the 2nd best in college football last year (sorry Big 10 and Big 12, you were nothing to the PAC 10 and SEC)

I figured if Lynch was picked before buffalo we'd take Poz

1) Poz was hands down the best player in the country on defense in 2005.
2) He had a dominating 2nd half to 2006, after adjusting to the knee brace and the new position
3) He's faster then he looks (he runs stiff with little motion, which makes him look slower then he is, in reality he has an explosive step, and great anticipation which gets him to the ball far faster then it looks like he's moving), and is a standout run stuffer.
4) best run stuffer, and probably the 2nd best pass defender of this year's Line Backers.

I never thought he'd fall out of the first round, though knew it was a slight possibility (linebackers always fall a little farther then you'd expect)

The top two alone made me happy with the draft. The rest was simply safe picks designed to restock the depth of the team.

I would have liked them to address CB, but when you get past round 2, you’re basically searching for anyone who can step in and play immediately; perhaps there wasn’t anyone on the board left.

Btw: thanks to the Poz pick I won the tiebreaker, and took home $80

Thanks. With you not being in scouting anymore I expect more posts.:up::beers:

[feelthepain]

If I were a Miami fan the thing that I would be pissed about is the Brees miss. This guy would have been an awesome pickup. Rookies are hit and miss so who's to say that Beck isn't the best QB in the draft vs. Quinn.

If I were a Bill fan Id be pissed about giving up a first round pick for JP Losman.

[Bling]

If I were a Miami fan the thing that I would be pissed about is the Brees miss. This guy would have been an awesome pickup. Rookies are hit and miss so who's to say that Beck isn't the best QB in the draft vs. Quinn.

Twice. Jamar Fletcher was one of the worst picks in team history.

[The Spaz]

If I were a Bill fan Id be pissed about giving up a first round pick for JP Losman.

How about trading for Feeley or Harrington?

[The Spaz]

Twice. Jamar Fletcher was one of the worst picks in team history.

Eddie Moore has to rate up there too.

[North_Coast]

I discount everything he said simply because he said "Ginn has durability issues". That right there showed his ignorance. Ginn got hurt when getting piled on during a celebration in his last college game and that was it. Durability issues:meh:

The Fins never wanted Quinn -- just as the Bills never wanted Leinart last year (if they had been in the market for a QB, they would have taken Cutler over Leinart). I think that the Fins really wanted Levi Brown (LT) at #9 but he only lasted 'til #5 and the next best LT (Joe Staley) wasn't a Top Ten talent (I think he was the last pick in Round 1), so they took the BPA. That was a sound move. It was better than taking a lesser talent to fill a need -- that's the easiest way to draft a bust.

It was hard for the teams at the top of the draft to find trading partners in the first round, so Miami can't be criticized about that,either. These "draft gurus" know a whole less than the scouts/coaches/GMs.

What was bad about Miami's draft was that they wound up with the ninth pick in a draft that was very, very thin on top talent.

[North_Coast]

This is where I question the Jamarcus Russell pick. He has by far the least amount of starts in college, but he's talked about lilke a God. I realize his arm is no Joke, but neither is Michael Vicks arm. However I would rather have Kelly Holcomb as my QB, then Michael Vick.
Arm strength is the last thing I would want if I had to choose a strength in a QB. I'd take smarts, good decision making , good pocket presence, eliusivness, good feet, the ability to read defenses, accuracy all before I take strong arm.

All Bills fans remember Rob Johnson ... million dollar arm ... fifty cent brain!

[North_Coast]

If I were a Bill fan Id be pissed about giving up a first round pick for JP Losman.

Being a Fin fan, you will continue to be pissed about the Bills giving up a irst round pick for JP Losman for many years to come! :roflmao:

[The Spaz]

2-0 against the fins with J.P. Losman starting.:up:

[HHURRICANE]

If I were a Bill fan Id be pissed about giving up a first round pick for JP Losman.

The funny part is that based on what's been available since JP was picked up in '04 he might turn out to be well worth the 22nd pick. Guarantee that Favre would be retired if they had got JP like they wanted.

[feelthepain]

The funny part is that based on what's been available since JP was picked up in '04 he might turn out to be well worth the 22nd pick. Guarantee that Favre would be retired if they had got JP like they wanted.

Oh right, JP would take Brett Favres job....dream on. How about you actually watch a football game once in a while, cause you seem to think JP has skills that simply don't exist. JP may have a few physical skills, but he's not going to beat a rock in an IQ test.

[North_Coast]

Oh right, JP would take Brett Favres job....dream on. How about you actually watch a football game once in a while, cause you seem to think JP has skills that simply don't exist. JP may have a few physical skills, but he's not going to beat a rock in an IQ test.

FTP, you're confusing JP with a certain Miami QB again!!! :roflmao:

Here's the requirements for Tulane University (U of Central Florida it sure ain't!!!): http://www.tulane.edu/~admiss/prospective_students/entering/profile.html

[PECKERWOOD]

I think phin fans initial reaction when Cam Cameron announced their pick explains it all. Ginn over Quinn was perhaps the worst move on draft day.