Of all 22 starting players on O & D, with how many are you FULLY satisfied?

[Wys Guy]

Please provide only a number and/or a detailed breakdown of which spots/players you are fully satisfied with now, if we had to have that player in that role for the next three seasons no questions asked.

Let's see if we can all adhere to the request here. (i.e., not looking for maybes, mights, shoulds, special teams value, comments on potential, ifs, etc.)

Strictly looking for the position/player that unquestionably you would like to see in that starting O/D role through at least the '09 season and would be FULLY satisfied with their play as you now know it.

Have at it.

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

Schobel and Crowell (perhaps I could also add McGee and Kelsay) but I think it's kind of stupid to ask this question considering the defense has just started a rebuilding phase twelve moths ago.

Right now it's all about maybes, mights, shoulds and potentials.

[patmoran2006]

NOW know it?

Offense
Losman
Lynch
Evans
Peters
Dockery

DEFENSE
Schobel
Poz
Crowell
Whitner
Simpson

[Jan Reimers]

All of them.

[Dr. Lecter]

With one of the youngest teams in the NFL, much of the starting line-up is based on potential.

The team is rebuilding and doing it the right way instead of TD's "quick fix" approach.

[gr8slayer]

No Doubt:
- Peters
- Evans
- Lynch
- Dockery
- Merz

Satisfied:
- Fowler
- Walker
- Royal
- K. Thomas
- Crowell
- Ellison
- Posluszny
- Kelsay
- Schobel
- Kyle Williams

A lot to prove:
- T. McGee
- J.P. Losman
- Youboty
- Price/Parrish/whoever else
- Whitner/Simpson
- Rest of the DT's.

[patmoran2006]

No Doubt:
- Peters
- Evans
- Lynch
- Dockery
- Merz

Satisfied:
- Fowler
- Walker
- Royal
- K. Thomas
- Crowell
- Ellison
- Posluszny
- Kelsay
- Schobel
- Kyle Williams

A lot to prove:
- T. McGee
- J.P. Losman
- Youboty
- Price/Parrish/whoever else
- Whitner/Simpson
- Rest of the DT's.
Whitner and Losman are "alot to prove", and Merz is a "no doubt"??

LMAO

[Dr. Lecter]

gr8: How is Merz no doubt, but Whitner a question mark???

[Dr. Lecter]

Whitner and Losman are "alot to prove", and Merz is a "no doubt"??

LMAO

Beat me to it.

BTW, listing rookies as no doubts is silly, unless you are a :homer:. :D

[gr8slayer]

gr8: How is Merz no doubt, but Whitner a question mark???
I think he has been our best OG since we drafted him. Whitner sucked last year for a number eight pick and Lynch IMO will be Marshall Faulk II.

This was an opinionated question was it not?

[alohabillsfan]

Offense
JP
Evans
Reed
Peters
Dockery
Lynch

Defense
Schobel
Kelsay
Denney
Tripplet
Crowell
Ellison
POZ
Whitner
Simpson

Would like a vet CB!

[patmoran2006]

whitner started pretty much everygame as a rookie and to my knowledge had more tackles than any rookie secondary draft pick. HOw did he suck for an 8th overall draft pick? and this coming from someone who doesnt even like the pick

And if MERZ was THAT good he'd have found his way into the starting lineup over bums like Villarrial and Reyes and Gandy.. He sounds more like a "alot to prove" guy to me than Whitner.

[Dr. Lecter]

I think he has been our best OG since we drafted him. Whitner sucked last year for a number eight pick and Lynch IMO will be Marshall Faulk II.

This was an opinionated question was it not?

Whitner did not suck last year. (His draft position is a moot point on this question).

And yes it is an opinion question.

[gr8slayer]

whitner started pretty much everygame as a rookie and to my knowledge had more tackles than any rookie secondary draft pick. HOw did he suck for an 8th overall draft pick? and this coming from someone who doesnt even like the pick

And if MERZ was THAT good he'd have found his way into the starting lineup over bums like Villarrial and Reyes and Gandy.. He sounds more like a "alot to prove" guy to me than Whitner.
Merz started against NE.

Whitner has just as much to prove in year two as Losman does in year five.

[Dr. Lecter]

And Merz has proven nothing. He started one game. That in no way makes him a sure thing.

He is unlikely to start this year too. Butler (who will, imo after listening to to McNally), Preston and maybe even Whittle are ahead of him.

[gr8slayer]

And Merz has proven nothing. He started one game. That in no way makes him a sure thing.

He is unlikely to start this year too. Butler (who will, imo after listening to to McNally), Preston and maybe even Whittle are ahead of him.
Say what you want, I've watched a lot of him in college and I felt that he was our best OG when he was drafted. Merz will be a starter before the end of the year.

[OpIv37]

No Doubt:
- Peters
- Evans
- Lynch
- Dockery
- Merz

Satisfied:
- Fowler
- Walker
- Royal
- K. Thomas
- Crowell
- Ellison
- Posluszny
- Kelsay
- Schobel
- Kyle Williams

A lot to prove:
- T. McGee
- J.P. Losman
- Youboty
- Price/Parrish/whoever else
- Whitner/Simpson
- Rest of the DT's.

You have no doubt about Merz even though he's never even seen the field? You're satisified with Pos and Lynch even though you've never seen them play at the NFL level? You're satisfied with K Thomas despite zero career INT's? You're satisfied with Royal despite having more big mistakes (penalties and drops) than big plays?

Come on, man. Be a little more realistic here.

[gr8slayer]

You have no doubt about Merz even though he's never even seen the field? You're satisified with Pos and Lynch even though you've never seen them play at the NFL level? You're satisfied with K Thomas despite zero career INT's? You're satisfied with Royal despite having more big mistakes (penalties and drops) than big plays?

Come on, man. Be a little more realistic here.
Merz - Started, and did quite well against NE, so he has seen the field.

Lynch - Was listed as "no doubt," barring injury he will be a top five back.

Posluszny - If he can return to being 100% there's no doubt in my mind that he will be an amazing player.

Thomas - Excellent CB for our scheme, he played better than McGee last year.

Royal - Will be fine, he couldn't contribute much last year due to having to stay in and help our weak ass OL block. He will be a bigger factor this year.

[justasportsfan]

Royal - Will be fine, he couldn't contribute much last year due to having to stay in and help our weak ass OL block. He will be a bigger factor this year.
I agree. :D


But with regards to Merz, Jauron and McNally aren't stupid. Merz would've started over Pennington if he was better. But that's okay, I know you're a Merz homer/fan.

[OpIv37]

Merz - Started, and did quite well against NE, so he has seen the field.

Lynch - Was listed as "no doubt," barring injury he will be a top five back.

Posluszny - If he can return to being 100% there's no doubt in my mind that he will be an amazing player.

Thomas - Excellent CB for our scheme, he played better than McGee last year.

Royal - Will be fine, he couldn't contribute much last year due to having to stay in and help our weak ass OL block. He will be a bigger factor this year.

I just don't know how anyone can be "fully satisfied" with players who have never played in the NFL before. I like the Lynch and Pos picks and if they live up to their potential I'll be satisfied with them. But right now, we've never actually seen them play. How can you be satisfied with something that hasn't happened yet?

[gr8slayer]

I just don't know how anyone can be "fully satisfied" with players who have never played in the NFL before. I like the Lynch and Pos picks and if they live up to their potential I'll be satisfied with them. But right now, we've never actually seen them play. How can you be satisfied with something that hasn't happened yet?
The same way you can be dis-satisfied with virtually every single move the Bills make.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Evans
Losman
Lynch
Peters
Dockery
Reed (As 3rd)

Schobel
McCargo
Tripplett
Kelsay
Posluszny
Crowell
Whitner
Simpson

[Pinkerton Security]

To be completely honest the only players starting for us right now that i am NOT happy with are:

Price/Reed: 3rd stringers, both of em, shouldnt be starting for us
Kelsay: never done anything to prove to me he is any good (I think denney is better)
whoever our 2nd cb is: nuff said
whoever starts are RG and RT: simply a question mark, will wait to see the positions become more solidified

[OpIv37]

The same way you can be dis-satisfied with virtually every single move the Bills make.

You're missing a key difference: except for the other rookies, there is some NFL performance to use in evaluating the moves. You have nothing to evaluate these players yet.

And for the record, I don't bash every move. I liked the first two draft picks and the Dockery signing.

And also for the record, over the last decade or so, how many of the Bills moves have lead to wins? Right, that's what I thought- as fans we should ALL be disatisifed instead of defending garbage like Robert Royal.

[Dr. Lecter]

OK, everybody. Be good like OP and stay on target.

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

Schobel and Crowell (perhaps I could also add McGee and Kelsay) but I think it's kind of stupid to ask this question considering the defense has just started a rebuilding phase twelve moths ago.

Right now it's all about maybes, mights, shoulds and potentials.
Well, I thought we were just talking about the defense but if I have to include the offense then it would be something like:

Evans, Schobel, Crowell and Peters.

Still, we are a rebuilding team and we are focusing in potential guys like Losmnan, Pos, Whitner, Lynch, etc.

[raphael120]

How anyone can be satisfied with Royal is out in lala land. I've seen him drop more than just a couple GAME-changing passes. For instance the Evans trick pass to him in the back of the endzone, where he had miles to put down two feet but was just too damn stupid to realize where he was in the endzone to do it. I can't even say that's a rookie mistake, it's a fan-trying-to-play-in-NFL mistake. Rediculous!

Here is who I am happy with on this team:

Offense:
JP
Evans
Peters
Dockery

Defense:
Schobel
Crowell
Whitner

7 out of 53 aint bad, right?

And I left out rookies, I am happy with the picks, but am I confident theyll succeed in a system that I nor anyone has seen them play in before is hard to judge, so I'll leave my judgment on them alone til I at least see them in preseason. But I have all confidence that my 7 I'm happy with should jump to at least 10.

[The Answer]

Until we start winning division titles and making deep playoff runs again than The Answer is satisfied with nothing.

~The Answer

[justasportsfan]

Until we start winning division titles and making deep playoff runs again than The Answer is satisfied with nothing.

~The Answer

anything short of a sb win is a disappointment.

[bflojohn]

If I understand this post from an "intellectual" point of view, I'd say that the logical assumptions are that on offense, the following players will be intregal pieces to a championship push....
QB- J.P. Losman
RB- Marshawn Lynch and Dwayne Wright
WR- Lee Evans
OLT- Jason Peters and Langston Walker (Ideally!)
OLG- Derrick Dockery

the defense is sounder, IMO, at this point....
MLB- Paul Posluszny
OLB- Angelo Crowell
DT's- Kyle Williams and John McCargo
DE's- Aaron Schobel, Chris Kelsay, and Anthony Hargrove
SS- Donte Whitner
FS- Ko Simpson
CB- Ashton Youboty
Special Teams:
PK- Rian Lindell
P- Brian Moorman
Overall, the basic axiom is that it is highly unlikely that a team has a whole team of Superstars! The fill-in-the-blanks aspect is filled with characters like Roscoe Parrish, John Wendling, Aaron Merz, Terrance Pennington, and very likely next years crop of rookies and free agent finds to round out the 3 year push. Just my opinion!!

[Don't Panic]

Losman
Evans
Peters
Dockery
Schoebel
Crowell
Whitner

This list leaves out a lot of guys who are on the cusp... should look a lot different this time next year.

[YardRat]

I'll play along...

Offense...Peters and Evans.
Defense...Crowell and Schobel.
ST's...Moorman.

They're the only ones, to me, that have proven they can play the game at this level over an extended period of time, and thus the only players I would give a three year 'pass' to.

#2 and even slot WR can be upgraded, as well as TE and center. The right side of the line is an unknown, and I don't have a freaking clue who's actually going to line up at fullback (or H-back...whatever). JP still isn't a given at this point in his career...he has to overcome starting the season slow and out-of-sync, and prove he can sustain solid play over an entire season. Lynch is a rookie, and has yet to prove he can make it through training camp let alone start or star in the NFL. (Just to head off some retorts attempting to 'read between the lines', I'm in no way insinuating Lynch might get cut or anything close to such nonsense, so don't bother with a ******ed response.)

On defense, McGee needs to adapt to the new scheme, the other corner is an unknown, the DT's don't scare anybody yet, Kelsay/Denney could be replaced with one dominant end, Ellison needs to start an entire year, Poz (see Lynch above), and even though Whitner and Simpson had nice rookie years they both need to play better as they get more experience. Anything short of dominance out of that tandem is a disappointment.

Moorman's a given, Lindell can be replaced if he falters or gets too expensive.

That being said, I'm somewhat happy with the make-up of the roster as a whole right now, and look forward to seeing this year how the current players are able to perform as a team. Price, Reed, and Parrish are serviceable at wide-out, and good enough to positively contribute to the offenses success. I'm willing to give Royals another year, and if the stars align correctly the offensive line could become dominant.

Same with the defense, if the young guys step in play at or above the level that's expected of them.

Most of our guys aren't names at the moment, but in a year or two they could be, and I'm willing to give them the opportunity to prove it.

[Philagape]

I'll go through the lineup with a smiley scale

QB Losman :smile:
RB Lynch :smile:
WR Evans :D
WR Price :::
WR Reed :::
TE Royal :::
LT Peters :smile:
LG Dockery :smile:
C Fowler :::
RG Preston :scared:
RT Walker :scared:

DE Schobel :smile:
DT Tripplett/Walker :::
DT Williams/McCargo :smile:
DE Kelsay :::
LB Crowell :smile:
LB Posluszny :smile:
LB Ellison :smile:
CB McGee :::
CB Thomas/Youboty :::
S Whitner :smile:
S Simpson :smile:

K Lindell :smile:
P Moorman :D

[YardRat]

Wow...not a single :mad:...I'm impressed.

[Philagape]

Wow...not a single :mad:...I'm impressed.

Villarrial was a :mad:

[gr8slayer]

Villarrial was a :mad:
And thankfully he's gone too.

[SABURZFAN]

Offense-evans and peters

Defense-schobel,crowell,and whitner

ST-moorman


the other 47 need to step the F up. :mad:

[Michael82]

Offense
QB JP Losman - Will be a damn good QB and I see him in the Pro Bowl this year.
WR Lee Evans - Top 5 WR in the league, easily
RB Marshawn Lynch - anyone can do better than Willis do last year!
LT Jason Peters - Future All Pro Left Tackle, will be mentioned with Orlando Pace and Jonathan Ogden.
LG Derrick Dockery - Peters will make him even better and he will be the Pro Bowl guard that we have been needing since we let go of Ruben. This will form one of the best LT/LG combos in the league

Defense
DE Aaron Schobel - one of the best DE's in the league
DE Chris Kelsay - I don't care what anyone says...he's our Phil Hansen
DT Larry Tripplett - Will do much better this season, especially with a bigger McCargo/Williams next to him.
LB Angelo Crowell - Definitely ready to take over for Spikes. Should fill in nicely for him and will be a star for this defense
LB Paul Posluszny - He's only a rookie, but he has the abilities and the leadership to be the perfect MLB for this team for many years to come
LB Keith Ellison - was one of the best tacklers on the field last year and has a ton of speed. I think this LB corps will be better than the old one. :up:
CB Terrence McGee - After he got used to the defense, he became much better, but will need to pick it up until Youboty gets it down pat.
SS Donte Whitner - Very impressive rookie season, will be the best Safety from last year's draft IMO.
FS Ko Simpson - Definitely helps to make this a nice 1-2 punch at safety.

P Brian Moorman - BEST PUNTER in the league and might be the best in NFL history! :D
K Rian Lindell - Pretty good kicker, I'm happy with him.

[X-Era]

Please provide only a number and/or a detailed breakdown of which spots/players you are fully satisfied with now, if we had to have that player in that role for the next three seasons no questions asked.

Let's see if we can all adhere to the request here. (i.e., not looking for maybes, mights, shoulds, special teams value, comments on potential, ifs, etc.)

Strictly looking for the position/player that unquestionably you would like to see in that starting O/D role through at least the '09 season and would be FULLY satisfied with their play as you now know it.

Have at it.

QB
1- WR
RB (yes Lynch will be very good)
LT
LG
RT
DE's
DT's
1- OLB
MLB
1-CB
S's

[Wys Guy]

I'll go through the lineup with a smiley scale

QB Losman :smile:
RB Lynch :smile:
WR Evans :D
WR Price :::
WR Reed :::
TE Royal :::
LT Peters :smile:
LG Dockery :smile:
C Fowler :::
RG Preston :scared:
RT Walker :scared:

DE Schobel :smile:
DT Tripplett/Walker :::
DT Williams/McCargo :smile:
DE Kelsay :::
LB Crowell :smile:
LB Posluszny :smile:
LB Ellison :smile:
CB McGee :::
CB Thomas/Youboty :::
S Whitner :smile:
S Simpson :smile:

K Lindell :smile:
P Moorman :D

LMAO!!

See, you guys need more humor around here like Philagape here.

It would "brighten the room."

[TedMock]

I find the team youth both exciting and frightening. Of course with youth comes inexperience and until there is proof I can't say I'm completely confident in most of the guys. I'm hopeful, but that's a different story.

In this order, on offense then defense, I'm confident in...

Lee Evans
Jason Peters
Derrick Dockery
JP Losman
Melvin Fowler

Angelo Crowell
Donte Whitner
Aaron Schobel
Ko Simpson
John McCargo

[TigerJ]

There are no areas where I am really worried at the moment, there are some areas where I still think we could stand an upgrade. I expect I will be very happy with the perfomance of the following players:

Offense:
Losman
Lynch
Evans
Peters
Dockery
Fowler

Defense:
Schobel
Darwin Walker (if contract issues get resolved)
Crowell
Ellison
Whitner
Simpson

That would be my answer at this point However, I am optimistic that we are going to be OK with the following players. I'm just a little less sure about them:

Offense:
Langston Walker
Robert Royal

Defense:
John McCargo
Kyle Williams
Paul Posluszny
Ashton Youboty
John Wendling (as a backup)

I'm not necessarily worried about right guard. It won't be any worse than last season, and will probably be better. The only question is by how much.

I'm also not terribly worried about #2 receiver. I think with better offensive line play, and increasing maturity in JP Losman, production should go up some from both Reed and Price. I don't think we have the makings of any sort of dominant #2 receiver though. Essentially we have a solid #1 receiver and several pretty good #3 receivers.

On defense, I'm not to worried about left defensive end. Again, it's not going to be worse than last year when the Bills got pretty good pressure on their opponents. I think Kelsay and maybe even Denney have a little more upside. I expect at least modest improvement in run defense because Williams and McCargo are both going to be a little bigger, a little stronger, and a little more comfortable with their responsibilities in the scheme.

[Mad Bomber]

Please provide only a number and/or a detailed breakdown of which spots/players you are fully satisfied with now, if we had to have that player in that role for the next three seasons no questions asked.

Let's see if we can all adhere to the request here. (i.e., not looking for maybes, mights, shoulds, special teams value, comments on potential, ifs, etc.)

Strictly looking for the position/player that unquestionably you would like to see in that starting O/D role through at least the '09 season and would be FULLY satisfied with their play as you now know it.

Have at it. I'll answer this exactly as you want.

You're looking for ABSOLUTE certainty and SATISFACTION (which by definition means that a need/want has been satisfied in the PAST).

"No maybes, mights, shoulds or special teams" (I don't get that one at all, because I was FULLY satisfied with Steve Tasker as a special teams player).

In your words, as I now know it:

Offense:
Peters
Evans
Losman

Defense:
Schobel
Crowell
Whitner

The way you worded your request, I can't possibly speak of any of our draft choices or other new acquisitions, since they haven't played a single down for us.

It's MAY. Ask me in December who I'm satisfied with. Otherwise, you'll only get my "feelings on maybes, mights, shoulds, special teams value", which wouldn't satisfy your specific requirements for this thread.