Reasons for hope!

[alohabillsfan]

Here are my top 5 reasons for hope (when I say hope it's a Wild Card berth) this season.

1) JP- 1st season 1-7, 2nd 7-9 3rd? Can he get us 3 more wins?

2) Improved running game!! While I caution us fans on relying on a couple of rooks at RB, it is the easiest position to come into the NFL as a rook and make an impact! Plus the upgrade of Dockery over Gandy and the right side being improved with Walker/Butler etc... Should allow us to get more than 97 yards per game!

3) Improved passing game, how you may ask? Again with the (on paper) improved right side of the O-Line, it should allow us to deploy the TE's and RB's into the passing attack, which in turn will give JP the ability to dump off the ball! The dump off will get us positive yards vice a negative play in a sack!

4) Improved defense (look out homers, incoming!!). Yes, I said improved defense! How you may ask? With the loss of Clements, Spikes and Fletcher can this defense be improved? Well, it really is predicated by the production of the offense! If the offense can produce 26-28 points per game (Bills avg. 22.2 over the last 9 games, after the bye week changes), so I am not looking for a quantum leap only another drive or 2 that results in 6 points! This defense relies on the offenses ability to dictate what the other team does I.E. make them pass to catch up!

5) This is the second year running this offense and defense, the QB should be better at understanding the offense as well as our starting safeties on defense!

So, lets hope for this team to improve! We are the youngest team in our division and getting better!

[justasportsfan]

Duck!!!!

[Jan Reimers]

I agree, and would add that our D will improve, because our young players will improve - a concept that is somewhat foreign to the negmeisters.

[OpIv37]

4) Improved defense (look out homers, incoming!!). Yes, I said improved defense! How you may ask? With the loss of Clements, Spikes and Fletcher can this defense be improved? Well, it really is predicated by the production of the offense! If the offense can produce 26-28 points per game (Bills avg. 22.2 over the last 9 games, after the bye week changes), so I am not looking for a quantum leap only another drive or 2 that results in 6 points! This defense relies on the offenses ability to dictate what the other team does I.E. make them pass to catch up!



I'm sorry but this is just insanity. We lost three starters, we have the same DL plus maybe Darwin Walker, and we may still be without McCargo. No matter how good the O is, the D is going to have to be on the field at some point. If the other team starts with the ball and rattles off a 5 or 6 minute drive for a score, then the offense is under a lot of pressure. If they even sputter once, we're right back where we were last year. We play some tough D's over the course of the season, which will stifle the O.

Your other points can either be viewed with a "glass half full" or a "glass half empty" approach" so I won't bother with those because we're not going to agree. But this one is just so unreasonably optimistic that it borders on ridiculous.

[OpIv37]

I agree, and would add that our D will improve, because our young players will improve - a concept that is somewhat foreign to the negmeisters.

The young players will improve enough to compensate for their own defenciencies last year, compensate for the loss of 3 starters, compensate for the weak CB spot, compensate for the lack of LB depth, and compensate for the weak DL?

You're expecting WAY too much from one year's worth of improvement.

[patmoran2006]

I agree with points 1,2, 3 and 5.. Losman's experience should propel him to take the next step; the OL on paper is better; and Lynch will be an improvement in both the running and passing games- no doubt.

But you're crazy to call this an improved defense. THis defense is going to be horrible; possibly one of the worst 3-4 in the entire NFL; that's how bad it's going to be. Run stopping isn't about technique, its about ability, and the Bills DL lacks the ability to not get blown off the ball. McCargo's health concerns only expose that further.

Combine that with a rookie starting at MLB instead of Fletcher and possibly the worst CB tandem in the NFL and its going to be an ugly, long season for the Bills defense, period.

[justasportsfan]

:movie:

[alohabillsfan]

But you're crazy to call this an improved defense. THis defense is going to be horrible; possibly one of the worst 3-4 in the entire NFL; that's how bad it's going to be. Run stopping isn't about technique, its about ability, and the Bills DL lacks the ability to not get blown off the ball. McCargo's health concerns only expose that further.

Please define 3-4 worst, Scoring, rushing, passing, or overall?

[ParanoidAndroid]

Our offense is still a long way away from taking enough pressure off the defense and allowing the cover-2 to do what it does best....take the ball away. It is true that even a mediocre cover-2 defense can look good when your offense is successful (Indy), but we have yet to see our offense sustain long drives on a consistent basis. That may very well improve this year, but I don't suspect it will be quite enough to push us over .500.
I think this team has a bright future with the young talent we are accumulating, but we are a year or two away from being serious contenders as long as our offseasons and drafts continue to be productive.
We are not going to be horrible this year, but we are not playoff bound just yet, unless several players suddenly break out on both sides of the ball.

[Jan Reimers]

But you're crazy to call this an improved defense. THis defense is going to be horrible; possibly one of the worst 3-4 in the entire NFL; that's how bad it's going to be. Run stopping isn't about technique, its about ability, and the Bills DL lacks the ability to not get blown off the ball. McCargo's health concerns only expose that further.

Please define 3-4 worst, Scoring, rushing, passing, or overall?
Don't try to reason with the negmeisters. They are omniscient.

[OpIv37]

Don't try to reason with the negmeisters. They are omniscient.

why is it you sarcasticaly refer to people who say the D won't improve as "omniscient" yet that label doesn't apply to the people saying the D WILL improve?

[justasportsfan]

Don't try to reason with the negmeisters. They are omniscient.
Jan, remember the young Bruce Smith and co. during MArv's first year? Did they ever improve under the same system in their second year, 3rd ,4th? If your answer is no, then you are expecting too much if you think playing in the system does not HELP your team get better. It's UNRESONABLE to think 1 years experience can help improve a player or group of players playing together as a unit.


BTW, before you misinterpret, I said HELP improve , not PROBOWL after 1 year. .

[OpIv37]

Jan, remember the young Bruce Smith and co. during MArv's first year? Did they ever improve under the same system in their second year, 3rd ,4th? If your answer is no, then you are expecting too much if you think playing in the system does not HELP your team get better. It's UNRESONABLE to think 1 years experience can help improve a player.


BTW, before you misinterpret, I said HELP improve , not PROBOWL after 1 year. .

it's not unreasonable to think a player can improve.

It is very unreasonable to expect one year of improvement to improve players enough to compensate for the 28th ranked run D, losing three starters, questionable CB's and a crappy DL.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Jan, remember the young Bruce Smith and co. during MArv's first year? Did they ever improve under the same system in their second year, 3rd ,4th? If your answer is no, then you are expecting too much if you think playing in the system does not HELP your team get better. It's UNRESONABLE to think 1 years experience can help improve a player.


BTW, before you misinterpret, I said HELP improve , not PROBOWL after 1 year. .

I agree that some players will improve, while the loss of those veterans will hurt. After all is said and done it could be a wash, but I suspect a temporary decline until later in the season, perhaps.
Anyone who knows my posts, knows that I am far from a negative fan. If anything, I am one of the optimists. I can't convince myself that the defense will be better just yet, however. The possibility exists, but my hopes remain grounded.

[justasportsfan]

BTW, before you reply JAN don't forget that the year before we replaced Vincent, Milloy, Sam Adams and Jeff Posey. That's 4 starters .

Granted that our run D stunk, as a whole the D that had 2 rookie starters at safety, Rookies at DT, rookies rotating at lb and a newly aqcuired DT from the colts (Tripplett) all learning a new system and playing together for the first time played better than when Sam Adams and co. were here.

So it's UNREASONABLE to think they can improve because we lost 3 starters one of which was a questionamark. Be careful what you answer.

[OpIv37]

BTW, before you reply JAN don't forget that the year before we replaced Vincent, Milloy, Sam Adams and Jeff Posey. That's 4 starters .

Granted that our run D stunk, as a whole the D that had 2 rookie starters at safety, Rookies at DT, and a newly aqcuired DT from the colts (Tripplett) all learning a new system and playing together for the first time played better than when Sam Adams and co. were here.

So it's UNREASONABLE to think they can improve because we lost 3 starters one of which was a questionamark. Be careful what you answer.

so, you're saying we lost a bunch of starters and replaced them with young guys, and our D wasn't good enough.

This year, we lost a bunch of starters and replaced them with young guys and.... the D is supposed to be good enough?

Let's do the exact same thing and see if we get better results! The logic is flawless!

[madness]

But you're crazy to call this an improved defense. THis defense is going to be horrible; possibly one of the worst 3-4 in the entire NFL; that's how bad it's going to be. Run stopping isn't about technique, its about ability, and the Bills DL lacks the ability to not get blown off the ball. McCargo's health concerns only expose that further.

Please define 3-4 worst, Scoring, rushing, passing, or overall?

:rofl: I thought you were bipolar or something when I started reading this post compared to your first post. Here's a suggestion... quotes. :D


Run stopping isn't about technique, its about ability

That's some funny stuff right there.

[mayotm]

OP, you and the Bills have a good long relationship. However, it's time to accept that it's over. The Bills no longer bring you any joy, only misery. You love the Bills, but are no longer in love with them. Time to call it quits and just move. So sad to see this loving relationship end. Tear.

[justasportsfan]

Like I said, don't misinterpret JAn , I never said good enough, I'm only looking for improvement . I'm only implying it's NOT UNREASONABLE after I just PROVED to you that we lost 4 starters the year before.

I'm just saying it's REASONABLE to think experience playing together can improve a UNIT inspite of the loss 2 1/2 starters after all I JUST GAVE YOU PROOF that sometimes teams can overcome the loss of 4 starters.

It can go either ways but to say it will go just one way (suck) after I presented facts is just stupid.

[OpIv37]

Like I said, don't misinterpret JAn , I never said good enough, I'm only looking for improvement . I'm only implying it's NOT UNREASONABLE after I just PROVED to you that we lost 4 starters the year before.

I'm just saying it's REASONABLE to think experience playing together can improve a UNIT inspite of the loss 2 1/2 starters after all I JUST GAVE YOU PROOF that sometimes teams can overcome the loss of 4 starters.

It can go either ways but to say it will go just one way (suck) after I presented facts is just stupid.

your proof that we compensated for the loss of 4 starters is a year where we finished 28th in rush D and gave up more yards than the year before? That sounds like it proves just the opposite of what you're claiming.

[justasportsfan]

Jan , 28th to 18 is a huge improvement after losing 4 starters from the year before . New coach .,new system, rookies all over the place.

Run D? Inspite losing 4 starters and rookies, new coach , they improved in ranking from 31st to 28th.

Total run yards difference was a measly 49 freaking yards. You better not cry about 49 yards. Don't forget our starting DT McCargo who was improving went down to injury. If you cry about 49 freaking yeards and yet forgetting we got better in TOTAL yards you are nitpicking certain stats and forgetting the big picture that we improved in a first year of rebuild .


Boohoo, we lost 49 yards inspite of LOSING 4 starters but we improved in total D and rush ranking.


MAybe this year we'll improve in total D again and improve in rush ranking but maybe lose 20 yards because we lost 2.2 starters. But wait . we're in our second year and our rookies have 1 year under their belt.


In other words, it's not unreasonable to think our D could improve . That's my POINT . Argue my point and don't try to switch it by crying about 49 yards. DUH!!!!!!!

It's UNREASONABLE to think we can't improve because the year before we lost 4 starters which led to losing 49 yards but improved everywhere else with rookies and a new coach . HAHA! That's just stupid.

[patmoran2006]

Don't try to reason with the negmeisters. They are omniscient.
maybe I'm a "negmeisters" but I speak from logic.

We have a horrible front four against the run, and they're suddenly NOT going to get consistently blown off the ball again?

WE have a ROOKIE middle linebacker-- and we have horrible cornerbacks.

Those are facts my friend.

[OpIv37]

Jan , 28th to 18 is a huge improvement after losing 4 starters from the year before . New coach .,new system, rookies all over the place.

Run D? Inspite losing 4 starters and rookies, new coach , they improved in ranking from 31st to 28th.

Total run yards difference was a measly 49 freaking yards. You better not cry about 49 yards. Don't forget our starting DT McCargo who was improving went down to injury. If you cry about 49 freaking yeards and yet forgetting we got better in TOTAL yards you are nitpicking certain stats and forgetting the big picture that we improved in a first year of rebuild .


Boohoo, we lost 49 yards inspite of LOSING 4 starters but we improved in total D and rush ranking.


MAybe this year we'll improve in total D again and improve in rush ranking but maybe lose 20 yards because we lost 2.2 starters. But wait . we're in our second year and our rookies have 1 year under their belt.


In other words, it's not unreasonable to think our D could improve . DUH!!!!!!!

49 yards. HAHA!

McCargo is still injured.

The Rush D still got worse, even if it was only 49 yards worse. It's still worse.

At first we lost 3 starters, then 2.5, then 2.2. Make up your damn mind.

18th in total D and ranking still wasn't good enough, and the rookies still have to improve enough to make up for their own shortcomings last year AND the loss of starters again this year.

If EVERY ONE of the 5 second- year guys improve (including McCargo, who's still injured) AND the 2nd year guys/rookies can step in and maintain the level of the Pro Bowlers we lost last year AND the DL stops sucking even though it was barely changed (and may not even be changed at all), this D will be decent. But it's unrealistic to expect all those things to happen.

[justasportsfan]

McCargo is still injured.

The Rush D still got worse, even if it was only 49 yards worse. It's still worse.

At first we lost 3 starters, then 2.5, then 2.2. Make up your damn mind.

18th in total D and ranking still wasn't good enough, and the rookies still have to improve enough to make up for their own shortcomings last year AND the loss of starters again this year.

If EVERY ONE of the 5 second- year guys improve (including McCargo, who's still injured) AND the 2nd year guys/rookies can step in and maintain the level of the Pro Bowlers we lost last year AND the DL stops sucking even though it was barely changed (and may not even be changed at all), this D will be decent. But it's unrealistic to expect all those things to happen.

Spikes is .5 :D


Waaaah! We lost 49 yards but moved 10 spots up in total D inspite losing 4 starters and replaced them with rookies . WAAAAH!!!!!

WAAAAHH!!!n Now we lost 3 starters but the D has one year under their belt but inspite of proof that we can overcome 4 starters it's UNREASONABLE to think we can overcome 3 with the team having one year under their belt. WAAAAAHHH!


Somebody hold OP's hands . He's crying about 49 yards!!!!!!

:snicker:

[Jan Reimers]

Jan, remember the young Bruce Smith and co. during MArv's first year? Did they ever improve under the same system in their second year, 3rd ,4th? If your answer is no, then you are expecting too much if you think playing in the system does not HELP your team get better. It's UNRESONABLE to think 1 years experience can help improve a player or group of players playing together as a unit.


BTW, before you misinterpret, I said HELP improve , not PROBOWL after 1 year. .
Yeah, I seem to recall Bruce, and Phil Hansen, and Darryl Talley, and Shane Conlan and Biscuit Bennett and those other young guys actually improving to the point of going to 4 straight Super Bowls.

But that must have been limited to the late 80s and early 90s - or to those specific players - because the negmeisters don't seem to give the " talented young players improve year to year in a stable system, with good coaching," argument much credence.

[patmoran2006]

Yeah, I seem to recall Bruce, and Phil Hansen, and Darryl Talley, and Shane Conlan and Biscuit Bennett and those other young guys actually improving to the point of going to 4 straight Super Bowls.

But that must have been limited to the late 80s and early 90s - or to those specific players - because the negmeisters don't seem to give the " talented young players improve year to year in a stable system, with good coaching," argument much credence.
That's clearly one of the more ridiculous comparisons I've EVER heard in my entire life.

Bruce Smith was the top pick of the draft when he came out. Cornelius Bennett was a second overall pick. Shane Conlan was an 8th overall pick. Give me three BLUE CHIP Top 8 prospects like that on this defense--- I didnt think so.

Not to mention, Henry Jones and Nate Odomes were top 30 picks as well.

[mikemac2001]

maybe I'm a "negmeisters" but I speak from logic.

We have a horrible front four against the run, and they're suddenly NOT going to get consistently blown off the ball again?

WE have a ROOKIE middle linebacker-- and we have horrible cornerbacks.

Those are facts my friend.


PAT then why should be even play the games

No hope whats the point

[OpIv37]

Spikes is .5 :D


Waaaah! We lost 49 yards but moved 10 spots up in total D inspite losing 4 starters and replaced them with rookies . WAAAAH!!!!!

WAAAAHH!!!n Now we lost 3 starters but the D has one year under their belt but inspite of proof that we can overcome 4 starters it's UNREASONABLE to think we can overcome 3 with the team having one year under their belt. WAAAAAHHH!


Somebody hold OP's hands . He's crying about 49 yards!!!!!!

:snicker:

Define "overcame". We still lost 9 games and finished 28th in rush D.

[raphael120]

For some reason, for as many people who think 7-9 is good...there's the rest of the league who had winning seasons that look at 7-9 and think it's not so good.

I just simply cannot see how you can attack cold hard facts and figures.

7-9
28th run D
28th ranked offense

Where am I seeing where that's good?

[PECKERWOOD]

Here are my top 5 reasons for hope (when I say hope it's a Wild Card berth) this season.

1) JP- 1st season 1-7, 2nd 7-9 3rd? Can he get us 3 more wins?

2) Improved running game!! While I caution us fans on relying on a couple of rooks at RB, it is the easiest position to come into the NFL as a rook and make an impact! Plus the upgrade of Dockery over Gandy and the right side being improved with Walker/Butler etc... Should allow us to get more than 97 yards per game!

3) Improved passing game, how you may ask? Again with the (on paper) improved right side of the O-Line, it should allow us to deploy the TE's and RB's into the passing attack, which in turn will give JP the ability to dump off the ball! The dump off will get us positive yards vice a negative play in a sack!

4) Improved defense (look out homers, incoming!!). Yes, I said improved defense! How you may ask? With the loss of Clements, Spikes and Fletcher can this defense be improved? Well, it really is predicated by the production of the offense! If the offense can produce 26-28 points per game (Bills avg. 22.2 over the last 9 games, after the bye week changes), so I am not looking for a quantum leap only another drive or 2 that results in 6 points! This defense relies on the offenses ability to dictate what the other team does I.E. make them pass to catch up!

5) This is the second year running this offense and defense, the QB should be better at understanding the offense as well as our starting safeties on defense!

So, lets hope for this team to improve! We are the youngest team in our division and getting better!

I agree we got Bigger, Faster and Stronger (pun intended) by cutting veterans and adding new personnel that fits our scheme much better. Not to rip on TKO and Fletch but we played better last season when we had Fletch, Crowell and Ellison in there. Not to mention that we added a LB that attacks and drives an offense backwards in Paul Posluszny, something that London Fletcher never seemed able to do. The only big drop off in talent that I've observed is the loss of Nate Clements but he wasn't worth what he got paid. Plus, I've heard that Ashton Youboty was keeping up with Lee Evans stride for stride in camp, which makes me optimistic. [Exit] Willis McGahee. [Enter] Marshawn Lynch. We upgraded our backfield vastly by adding the dynamic standout from Cal. Our OL was badly beaten up last season but we called Langston Walker and the Docker in to fix it! Resigning Kelsay and bringing in Darwin Walker were all good moves as well. 1 Bills Drive should be very optimistic right now.

[Jan Reimers]

You see, Pat, you mistake your opinions for fact. We have a rookie middle linebacker. That's a fact. But your "horrible front four" and "horrible cornerbacks" statements are your opinions.

The facts are, we are likely to have a different front four than the Triplett, Williams, Anderson, Jefferson quartet with which we ended last season. Williams will have gained a year's experience (which I realize means nothing to you, but it is a fact) and McCargo and Walker should replace Anderson and Jefferson. Whether this group will be horrible has yet to be decided.

Youboty is young and inexperienced. That's a fact. Whether he will be horrible is yet to be determined.

Until you can distinguish your opinions from fact, you will stay on my Ignore List, where I only have to see your pompous opinions in other posters' quotes.

[Jan Reimers]

Jan , 28th to 18 is a huge improvement after losing 4 starters from the year before . New coach .,new system, rookies all over the place.

Run D? Inspite losing 4 starters and rookies, new coach , they improved in ranking from 31st to 28th.

Total run yards difference was a measly 49 freaking yards. You better not cry about 49 yards. Don't forget our starting DT McCargo who was improving went down to injury. If you cry about 49 freaking yeards and yet forgetting we got better in TOTAL yards you are nitpicking certain stats and forgetting the big picture that we improved in a first year of rebuild .


Boohoo, we lost 49 yards inspite of LOSING 4 starters but we improved in total D and rush ranking.


MAybe this year we'll improve in total D again and improve in rush ranking but maybe lose 20 yards because we lost 2.2 starters. But wait . we're in our second year and our rookies have 1 year under their belt.


In other words, it's not unreasonable to think our D could improve . That's my POINT . Argue my point and don't try to switch it by crying about 49 yards. DUH!!!!!!!

It's UNREASONABLE to think we can't improve because the year before we lost 4 starters which led to losing 49 yards but improved everywhere else with rookies and a new coach . HAHA! That's just stupid.
I guess someone did the old name switcharoo again, and turned me into one of the negmeisters. Hilarious.

[mikemac2001]

You see, Pat, you mistake your opinions for fact. We have a rookie middle linebacker. That's a fact. But your "horrible front four" and "horrible cornerbacks" statements are your opinions.

The facts are, we are likely to have a different front four than the Triplett, Williams, Anderson, Jefferson quartet with which we ended last season. Williams will have gained a year's experience (which I realize means nothing to you, but it is a fact) and McCargo and Walker should replace Anderson and Jefferson. Whether this group will be horrible has yet to be decided.

Youboty is young and inexperienced. That's a fact. Whether he will be horrible is yet to be determined.

Until you can distinguish your opinions from fact, you will stay on my Ignore List, where I only have to see your pompous opinions in other posters' quotes.


PWND!

[OpIv37]

You see, Pat, you mistake your opinions for fact. We have a rookie middle linebacker. That's a fact. But your "horrible front four" and "horrible cornerbacks" statements are your opinions.

The facts are, we are likely to have a different front four than the Triplett, Williams, Anderson, Jefferson quartet with which we ended last season. Williams will have gained a year's experience (which I realize means nothing to you, but it is a fact) and McCargo and Walker should replace Anderson and Jefferson. Whether this group will be horrible has yet to be decided.

Youboty is young and inexperienced. That's a fact. Whether he will be horrible is yet to be determined.

Until you can distinguish your opinions from fact, you will stay on my Ignore List, where I only have to see your pompous opinions in other posters' quotes.

Actually 28th in Run D is a fact and it's pretty horrible. McCargo may or may not be ready to go and may or may not be an improvement, and Walker may or may not hold out, and may or may not be useful against the run (although, in fairness, I would bet that he'd be better than Anderson). So it's entirely possible that our DT rotation will be identical to last year, and even if it's not there is no guarantee that it will be better.

As far as Youboty, it's a fact that he's far less experienced than Clements. I suppose it's possible that he could step in and play well enough for there to be no noticable drop-off in play, but it's unlikely. And we really don't need even play out out of our D, we need improved play out of our D.

So, it still seems to me like it's unreasonable to expect the D to be improved (note: that's not the same thing as saying that some of the individual players won't improve, but it's going to take more than that to fix this D).

[raphael120]

Apparently might's and if's are facts for homers.

[justasportsfan]

Define "overcame". We still lost 9 games and finished 28th in rush D.

we moved up in total D. Went from ranking 31st against the run to 28th.

Are you blaming the wins and losses now solely on th D now?

Fact is we IMPROVED in some areas after losing 4 starters the year before . So it is NOT unreasonable to think that we can improve in some areas because of playing in the same system inspite with the loss of 3 starters one f which is questionable.


I've already PROVEN that to you by showing facts.

[justasportsfan]

Actually 28th in Run D is a fact and it's pretty horrible. McCargo may or may not be ready to go and may or may not be an improvement, and Walker may or may not hold out, and may or may not be useful against the run (although, in fairness, I would bet that he'd be better than Anderson). So it's entirely possible that our DT rotation will be identical to last year, and even if it's not there is no guarantee that it will be better.

As far as Youboty, it's a fact that he's far less experienced than Clements. I suppose it's possible that he could step in and play well enough for there to be no noticable drop-off in play, but it's unlikely. And we really don't need even play out out of our D, we need improved play out of our D.

So, it still seems to me like it's unreasonable to expect the D to be improved (note: that's not the same thing as saying that some of the individual players won't improve, but it's going to take more than that to fix this D).


Tell that to all the rookies that replaced Milloy and co. and improved from 28 to 17th in total D. . THAT"S A FACT. That 28th run D was better than when Milloy and co was here.

You can nitpick the run D all you want by whining about 49 yards. BOOHOO!

[raphael120]

we moved up in total D. Went from ranking 31st against the run to 28th.



Wow..if you think that's progress then I hope you never want to be a successful businessman.

"Hey...you lost 5 pounds! You went from morbidly obese to...morbidly obese!"

[raphael120]

Tell that to all the rookies that replaced Milloy and co. and improved from 28 to 17th in total D. . THAT"S A FACT. You can nitpick the run D all you want by whining about 49 yards. BOOHOO!

Wanna know how many times people rushed against us instead of throwing on us?

It's a skewed stat homers use to try to prove something but the fact is, when it's so easy to run on you, why throw?

[OpIv37]

we moved up in total D. Went from ranking 31st against the run to 28th.

Are you blaming the wins and losses now solely on th D now?

Fact is we IMPROVED in some areas after losing 4 starters the year before . So it is NOT unreasonable to think that we can improve in some areas because of playing in the same system inspite with the loss of 3 starters one f which is questionable.


I've already PROVEN that to you by showing facts.

The DL will possibly be exactly the same as last year and the CB situation will be worse, so yeah, I think it's unreasonable. You're using what last year's D did and not putting it in the proper context, namely, what is going on with the D THIS year.

[justasportsfan]

Wow..if you think that's progress then I hope you never want to be a successful businessman.

"Hey...you lost 5 pounds! You went from morbidly obese to...morbidly obese!"


If you're gonna butt in at least discuss the point. OP said it''s unreasonable to think we can improve playing the same system in the 2nd year because we lost 3 starters. Well I already proved that the D got better when we lost 4 starters from the year before. So how is it UNREASONABLE again.

Try to keep up or don't bother trying to say something that isn't close to the point just so you can cry.

NOw you and OP can hold hands and cry at the same time. Pardon me if I don't want to join in on your *****fest.

[justasportsfan]

The DL will possibly be exactly the same as last year and the CB situation will be worse, so yeah, I think it's unreasonable. You're using what last year's D did and not putting it in the proper context, namely, what is going on with the D THIS year.


proper context my ass. Anything happen. I HAVE FACTS!!! Whether you accept them or not is not my problem. BOOHOO!

[OpIv37]

Tell that to all the rookies that replaced Milloy and co. and improved from 28 to 17th in total D. . THAT"S A FACT. That 28th run D was better than when Milloy and co was here.

You can nitpick the run D all you want by whining about 49 yards. BOOHOO!

Milloy was washed up and underperforming- many of us didn't see it at the time, but management apparently did. Would you say the same thing about Clements? While Clements was overrated here, he was still playing at a higher level than Milloy.

Again, you're not acknowledging the specifics of the situation.

[OpIv37]

proper context my ass. Anything happen. I HAVE FACTS!!! Whether you accept them or not is not my problem. BOOHOO!

I have facts that this year is different than last year. Whether you accept them or not is not my problem.

[justasportsfan]

I have facts that this year is different than last year. Whether you accept them or not is not my problem.


I want FACTS for this coming season ythat they SUCK like you say. YOU HAVE NONE. You're the one accussing the team of sucking so PROVE it.

[OpIv37]

If you're gonna butt in at least discuss the point. OP said it''s unreasonable to think we can improve playing the same system in the 2nd year because we lost 3 starters. Well I already proved that the D got better when we lost 4 starters from the year before. So how is it UNREASONABLE again.

Try to keep up or don't bother trying to say something that isn't close to the point just so you can cry.

NOw you and OP can hold hands and cry at the same time. Pardon me if I don't want to join in on your *****fest.


one more thing you forgot- of the 4 starters we lost last year, ALL 4 were by the choices of the coaching staff/FO.

We know the staff wanted to keep Clements and I'm not sure about Fletcher. You said yourself that you would have been in favor of keeping Spikes except for the fact that he didn't want to be here, so the coaching staff may have wanted to keep him as well.

It's one thing to lose players when the coaching staff wants them gone. It's another thing to lose players that the coaching staff wanted to keep- it suggests strongly that the alternative is inferior to what we lost.

Yet another key difference you're refusing to acknowledge....

[justasportsfan]

one more thing you forgot- of the 4 starters we lost last year, ALL 4 were by the choices of the coaching staff/FO.

We know the staff wanted to keep Clements and I'm not sure about Fletcher. You said yourself that you would have been in favor of keeping Spikes except for the fact that he didn't want to be here, so the coaching staff may have wanted to keep him as well.

It's one thing to lose players when the coaching staff wants them gone. It's another thing to lose players that the coaching staff wanted to keep- it suggests strongly that the alternative is inferior to what we lost.

Yet another key difference you're refusing to acknowledge....
I don't give a rats ass if they wanted to stay or not. That has nothing to do with sucking for sure this year like you say they will.

You're just trying to bring up stupid stuff because I HAVE FACTS!!!!!!!

[OpIv37]

I want FACTS for this coming season ythat they SUCK like you say. YOU HAVE NONE. You're the one accussing the team of sucking so PROVE it.

Fact: 28th in Run D. 49 more yards is MORE whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Fact: The DL could end up completely unchanged from last year.

Fact: Some players pan out, some players are busts. With all the young guys we have, there is a high probability that there will be a bust or two in the group. While this doesn't prove that anyone sucks per se, it's a damn good reason for doubt.

Fact: The LB's last year weren't good enough (you've even said this yourself). Well, did it ever occur to you that part of the reason Ellison was on the field last year may have had as much to do with that as it does with his own skill?

Fact: A lot of players on this team are unproven. Does that mean they will suck? No, but it means my reasons for doubting them are at least as valid as your reasons for having confidence in them.

Your facts only pertain to what was accomplished LAST year with DIFFERENT players- they don't prove anything about THIS year. We don't know what will happen until they actually play, but I've proven that there is more than enough reason to have doubt.

[OpIv37]

I don't give a rats ass if they wanted to stay or not. That has nothing to do with sucking for sure this year like you say they will.

You're just trying to bring up stupid stuff because I HAVE FACTS!!!!!!!

You have facts about what happened LAST year- all you did is prove a possibility. Your facts do not by any means prove anything about the D THIS year.

[John Doe]

Your facts do not by any means prove anything about the D THIS year.

Nor do yours.

[patmoran2006]

YOu can't win the NFL if you can't stop the run......... So we can debate until the end of the earth.

But come week one, either McCargo or another suitable run stuffing DT better be in the lineup, or we WON'T stop the run and we won't be winning many games.

having a better offense means nothing when they're only on the field for 20-22 minutes per game.

[X-Era]

Here are my top 5 reasons for hope (when I say hope it's a Wild Card berth) this season.

1) JP- 1st season 1-7, 2nd 7-9 3rd? Can he get us 3 more wins?

2) Improved running game!! While I caution us fans on relying on a couple of rooks at RB, it is the easiest position to come into the NFL as a rook and make an impact! Plus the upgrade of Dockery over Gandy and the right side being improved with Walker/Butler etc... Should allow us to get more than 97 yards per game!

3) Improved passing game, how you may ask? Again with the (on paper) improved right side of the O-Line, it should allow us to deploy the TE's and RB's into the passing attack, which in turn will give JP the ability to dump off the ball! The dump off will get us positive yards vice a negative play in a sack!

4) Improved defense (look out homers, incoming!!). Yes, I said improved defense! How you may ask? With the loss of Clements, Spikes and Fletcher can this defense be improved? Well, it really is predicated by the production of the offense! If the offense can produce 26-28 points per game (Bills avg. 22.2 over the last 9 games, after the bye week changes), so I am not looking for a quantum leap only another drive or 2 that results in 6 points! This defense relies on the offenses ability to dictate what the other team does I.E. make them pass to catch up!

5) This is the second year running this offense and defense, the QB should be better at understanding the offense as well as our starting safeties on defense!

So, lets hope for this team to improve! We are the youngest team in our division and getting better!

Thank god for some positive vibes, the offseason tends to be the more like "negative nancy's gone wild".

Appreciate the upbeat outlook!!!! :posrep:

[justasportsfan]

Fact: 28th in Run D. 49 more yards is MORE whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Fact: The DL could end up completely unchanged from last year.

Fact: Some players pan out, some players are busts. With all the young guys we have, there is a high probability that there will be a bust or two in the group. While this doesn't prove that anyone sucks per se, it's a damn good reason for doubt.

Fact: The LB's last year weren't good enough (you've even said this yourself). Well, did it ever occur to you that part of the reason Ellison was on the field last year may have had as much to do with that as it does with his own skill?

Fact: A lot of players on this team are unproven. Does that mean they will suck? No, but it means my reasons for doubting them are at least as valid as your reasons for having confidence in them.

Your facts only pertain to what was accomplished LAST year with DIFFERENT players- they don't prove anything about THIS year. We don't know what will happen until they actually play, but I've proven that there is more than enough reason to have doubt.


I didn't even read it because I know it's stupid.

OP says we CANNOT overcome the loss of starters therefore WE WILL SUCK FOR SURE ! No way no how we can get better according to him. I ask for PROOF or facts, he has none.


I say we can I showed him facts bu showing PROOF that we have not only overcome or got better with the loss of not only 3 but 4.


CAN we yes, Will we FOR SURE , I don't know but it's possible ! But OP KNOWS FOR SURE we will suck.

Ask for the lotto. Op's a psychic

[raphael120]

If you're gonna butt in at least discuss the point. OP said it''s unreasonable to think we can improve playing the same system in the 2nd year because we lost 3 starters. Well I already proved that the D got better when we lost 4 starters from the year before. So how is it UNREASONABLE again.

Try to keep up or don't bother trying to say something that isn't close to the point just so you can cry.

NOw you and OP can hold hands and cry at the same time. Pardon me if I don't want to join in on your *****fest.

Talk about staying on topic, you can't even back up your own statements without doing the whole "youre a crybaby" blah blah blah.

Seems to me like you're the one doing the crying now. "Oh no the people who are making sense are ganging up on me and I dont know how to defend myself so i'll redirect my anger towards other people and pout!"

I have YET to see you have a valid point, dude. And saying "Youre *****ing" or "Youre crying" is not a valid point.

[justasportsfan]

You have facts about what happened LAST year- all you did is prove a possibility. Your facts do not by any means prove anything about the D THIS year.
EXCACTLY . So if there is a possibility then it isn't UNREASONABLE> DUH!!


You on the other hand are so sure we will suck . :coocoo:


I doubt he gets it.

[Mr. Pink]

Here's a valid point...

The only way the rush defense improves over last year is if our offense puts up more points and takes more time off the clock than last year.

I actually have hopes and aspirations this does occur, because if our offense stays the same as last year or god forbid regresses, we're in for another losing year.

[justasportsfan]

Talk about staying on topic, you can't even back up your own statements without doing the whole "youre a crybaby" blah blah blah.

Seems to me like you're the one doing the crying now. "Oh no the people who are making sense are ganging up on me and I dont know how to defend myself so i'll redirect my anger towards other people and pout!"

I have YET to see you have a valid point, dude. And saying "Youre *****ing" or "Youre crying" is not a valid point.
:boring:

[OpIv37]

EXCACTLY . So if there is a possibility then it isn't UNREASONABLE> DUH!!


You on the other hand are so sure we will suck . :coocoo:


I doubt he gets it.

no, you're wrong yet again.

The fact that it's possible doesn't mean it's reasonable. It's possible that I could die driving home from work, but it would be unreasonable to start giving away things that I need because chances are I won't. It's possible I could win the lottery, but it would be unreasonable to spend the money until I actually win.

Just because there's a possibility something could happen does NOT by any means make it reasonable.

For example, let's take your favorite poster FTP. Is it possible that the Dolphins could finish better than the Bills and maybe win the division? Technically, it's possible. But is it reasonable for him to think like that? According to you, no.

I never said I'm so sure that we will suck- you just assume that because I don't bother to preface every post with "I think" or "It's my opinion that....". Given the information we have at this time, I think the most likely possibility by far is that we will suck. I could be wrong, but like I said before, I'm willing to take that chance.

[justasportsfan]

Someone says our D sucks but says he didn't say our D will suck for sure.

Eb is right. It's impossible to talk to someone who doesn't make sense.

[OpIv37]

Someone says our D sucks but says he didn't say our D will suck for sure.

Eb is right. It's impossible to talk to someone who doesn't make sense.

wow, this post is ridiculous. Until they play, it is just opinion. It's my opinion that the D sucks based on the information we have, and it doesn't make sense to me that people have concluded otherwise. But that's their opinion.

Jan Reimers said that the D is improved, but he doesn't know that either. Why don't you go after him?

[Night Train]

I think the O will improve with our OL moves and the 2 RB's we drafted. I bet we have more 1st downs, more points and run the clock far better.

The D is a mystery but Clements was the only big loss. The front 7 is something I need to see in camp and pre-season, before forming an actual opinion.

[OpIv37]

I think the O will improve with our OL moves and the 2 RB's we drafted. I bet we have more 1st downs, more points and run the clock far better.

The D is a mystery but Clements was the only big loss. The front 7 is something I need to see in camp and pre-season, before forming an actual opinion.


I think you may be underrating Fletcher. But regardless, even if Clements was the only big loss, the D wasn't good enough last year and at this point, there are no clear, concrete improvements. The only potential improvement is year 2 guys getting better, and that's asking a lot for a D that was so poor last year.

[justasportsfan]

there are no clear, concrete improvements. .
and there are no clear concrete proof that we suck and yet you keep insisting we do even though you have no facts. Typical OP.

[OpIv37]

and there are no clear concrete proof that we suck and yet you keep insisting we do even though you have no facts. Typical OP.

We have 1 Pro Bowler on D. The overwhelming majority of our D is young and inexperienced. We lost 3 starters and added 0 (arguably 1 if you count Walker) on a D that was 28th against the run and couldn't get off the field last year. McCargo may not be ready to go, and if he is he may not be 100%.

Those are facts. Do they prove we suck? No. But they do mean the most likely outcome is that we will suck. So deal with it.

[justasportsfan]

We have 1 Pro Bowler on D. The overwhelming majority of our D is young and inexperienced. We lost 3 starters and added 0 (arguably 1 if you count Walker) on a D that was 28th against the run and couldn't get off the field last year. McCargo may not be ready to go, and if he is he may not be 100%.

Those are facts. . Haha! those are your facts? Those are facts that HAVEN'T PROVEN anything or produced results on the field yet .All those so called facts of yours only leads to a whiny OPINION from you.

Those are paper facts. I want facts on the field. There are NONE. The season hasn't even started but go ahead with your the Bills suck ! That's all you're good for.

The redskins have had multiple probowlers. Big freakin deal.

[OpIv37]

Haha! those are your facts? Those are facts that HAVEN"T PROVED anything .All those so called facts of yours only leads to a whiny OPINION from you.

Those are paper facts. I want facts on the field. There are NONE. The season hasn't even started but go ahead with your the Bills suck ! That's all you're good for.

Dude, you're saying the same thing but still arguing with me again.

The paper facts suggest we suck. We don't have any facts on the field yet. So, you and others can continue to hope for the unlikely, whereas I will use the only facts available right now to come to the most logical conclusion at this point in time. Is it guaranteed? No. Is it likely? Hell yes.

[justasportsfan]

Dude, you're saying the same thing but still arguing with me again.

The paper facts suggest we suck. We don't have any facts on the field yet. So, you and others can continue to hope for the unlikely, whereas I will use the only facts available right now to come to the most logical conclusion at this point in time. Is it guaranteed? No. Is it likely? Hell yes.

WRONG!!! THe only thing on paper that you are CAPABLE of looking at is the one written on tissue with your tears stating we will suck.


We can suck based on the paper facts you presented or we can improve based on the paper fact that playing together and having a better grasp of the system.

Two paper facts mean two things can happen. You on the other hand insist that only 1 thing will happen. That we will suck.

anyone else who thinks that playing together in the same system can improve a team is UNREASONBLE. :coocoo:


I'm done. If you can't understand that ,no reason to go on. Besides there's no changing your mind. The bills suck no matter what.

[OpIv37]

WRONG!!! THe only thing on paper that you are CAPABLE of looking at is the one written on tissue with your tears stating we will suck.


We can suck based on the paper facts you presented or we can improve based on the paper fact that playing together and having a better grasp of the system.

Two paper facts mean two things can happen. You on the other hand insist that only 1 thing will happen. That we will suck.

anyone else who thinks that playing together in the same system can improve a team is UNREASONBLE. :coocoo:


I'm done. If you can't understand that ,no reason to go on. Besides there's no changing your mind. The bills suck no matter what.

You're the one who doesn't understand. Just because two things are possible does NOT make them equally likely. Is it possible that the same ****ty players can do better based SOLELY on one year of improvement and the addition of some unproven youth? Yes, but it's a hell of a LOT more likely that doing the same thing will get the same result.

So, you can sit there and hope for the unlikely, while I will expect the most likely outcome.

[DarbyTheDinosaur]

I've realized that this message board has become a huge waste of time. This thread was started with the intention of having a hopeful look towards the season and why...then it quickly (as always) descends into a debate over who is more right about the upcoming season...the half-empty guys or the half-full guys? However, the simple fact is that we are talking about the upcoming season...these are games that have yet to be played...nobody here has psychic abilities.

We are all fans of this team (most of us), so let's just wait and see what the 2007 season will bring. It will be a much better discussion then, I'm sure.

Until then, take care and enjoy the summer.

[OpIv37]

I've realized that this message board has become a huge waste of time. This thread was started with the intention of having a hopeful look towards the season and why...then it quickly (as always) descends into a debate over who is more right about the upcoming season...the half-empty guys or the half-full guys? However, the simple fact is that we are talking about the upcoming season...these are games that have yet to be played...nobody here has psychic abilities.

We are all fans of this team (most of us), so let's just wait and see what the 2007 season will bring. It will be a much better discussion then, I'm sure.

Until then, take care and enjoy the summer.

so, we're supposed to sit around and talk about nothing until the season starts?

some of us think the team will do well, some of us think the team will do poorly- given the almost total absence of football news this time of year (besides Bengals getting arrested), I don't see the problem with debating how we think the team will do and why.

[alohabillsfan]

YOu can't win the NFL if you can't stop the run......... So we can debate until the end of the earth.

WOW, this is to easy!!!!!!!!

Uh, guess who ranked dead last in rushing defense in 2006???????????



Indianapolis 16 519 32.4 2768 5.3 173.0 20 150 18

Yep them there superbowl champs! Kinds blows a big oh whole in your theory now don't it! :bandwagon

Keep trying I am sure you can produce a legitimate argument soon!

[mikemac2001]

We have 1 Pro Bowler on D. The overwhelming majority of our D is young and inexperienced. We lost 3 starters and added 0 (arguably 1 if you count Walker) on a D that was 28th against the run and couldn't get off the field last year. McCargo may not be ready to go, and if he is he may not be 100%.

Those are facts. Do they prove we suck? No. But they do mean the most likely outcome is that we will suck. So deal with it.


OP new year new players....1 year does mean alot for a young team espically it being 2nd year in a system so please i see your points but really complaining about it make them any better ....no it isnt so try to look at some positives.

[patmoran2006]

WOW, this is to easy!!!!!!!!

Uh, guess who ranked dead last in rushing defense in 2006???????????



Indianapolis 16 519 32.4 2768 5.3 173.0 20 150 18

Yep them there superbowl champs! Kinds blows a big oh whole in your theory now don't it! :bandwagon

Keep trying I am sure you can produce a legitimate argument soon!
Does Indy even make the playoffs if they dont have the best QB in the NFL and 2 of the best WR's in the NFL? Give me Manning, harrison and wayne instead of Losman, Evans and Price and we can put my mother at defensive tackle (who would have as many sacks as Williams and Anderson did combind last year).

And by the way, why did the Colts get to the Super Bowl? Cause they shut down LJ and Maroney/Dillon.

[OpIv37]

OP new year new players....1 year does mean alot for a young team espically it being 2nd year in a system so please i see your points but really complaining about it make them any better ....no it isnt so try to look at some positives.

ignoring it isn't going to make it any better either. He said something about the D, I disagreed and stated why- that's what a message board is for.

I think a lot of people here are confused as to what constitutes "complaining" or "whining". There are a lot of negatives about this team, and stating them in the context of a discussion about the team is NOT complaining. It's discussing, which is what this board is for.

[OpIv37]

WOW, this is to easy!!!!!!!!

Uh, guess who ranked dead last in rushing defense in 2006???????????



Indianapolis 16 519 32.4 2768 5.3 173.0 20 150 18

Yep them there superbowl champs! Kinds blows a big oh whole in your theory now don't it! :bandwagon

Keep trying I am sure you can produce a legitimate argument soon!

Indy is a TERRIBLE example because they have a freakishly good offense. You're using the exception to prove the rule (there seems to be a lot around here) and ignoring the specifics of the situation (there seems to be a lot of that around here too)- our O is NOWHERE NEAR as good as Indy's.

Also, you're neglecting that Indy's D came through in the playoffs. It doesn't make sense that they would struggle through the regular season then come together at the right time, but somehow they did.

If we're dead last in the league in rushing we won't even MAKE the playoffs because unlike Indy, our O isn't good enough to pick up the slack.

[justasportsfan]

WOW, this is to easy!!!!!!!!

Uh, guess who ranked dead last in rushing defense in 2006???????????



Indianapolis 16 519 32.4 2768 5.3 173.0 20 150 18

Yep them there superbowl champs! Kinds blows a big oh whole in your theory now don't it! :bandwagon

Keep trying I am sure you can produce a legitimate argument soon!

BURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OpIv37]

BURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It would be a burn if our offense was in any way comparable to Indy's. It's not, so the point is invalid.