Josh Reed as 2nd WR?

[raphael120]

Many people are beginning to believe with the numerous reps he has been getting with the first team that Josh Reed is favored to take over the 2nd WR spot.

As per WGR reports.

BTW, JP's every pass today is going for 6....is he Pro Bowl material this year or is our secondary just that horrid?

Also from WGR...

[patmoran2006]

Josh Reed's breakout year.. again

So true. I dont care if its May or August- we'll be hearing that a lot.. again

[OpIv37]

It would be nice if Reed would step it up and be a legit #2, but every year we hope for that and every year it doesn't happen. It seems like early reports on him out of camp and preseason are always very favorable, but somehow he's always a #3 at best on the field.

[raphael120]

Josh Reed vs. Peerless Price a year older = Josh Reed wins, IMHO...


very sad.

[camelcowboy]

Reed alway tears it up this time a year. This year i don't see anyone good enought on the roster to knock him out of the position :ill:

[Pinkerton Security]

If reed could just get open and then catch it, we'd be golden! his ability to run after the catch is awesome, IMO, the only problem is that he gets about 2 catches a game.

[THATHURMANATOR]

It would be nice if he finally steps up but I will believe it when I see it

[Yasgur's Farm]

Honestly... I dunno what some of you expect from a #2...

Some of you should compare these stats to Don Beebee

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/playerstats.asp?id=5922&Submit=Go

Reed Career - 73 games, 177 receptions, 11.9 yards/catch, 8 TD's

2002 - 16 games, 37 receptions, 13.8 yards/catch, 2 TD's

2003 - 16 games, 58 receptions, 10.1 yards/catch, 2 TD's, 104 times targeted, 55.8% catch, 5 drops, 4.8% drops, 31.7% 1st downs

2004 - 12 games, 16 receptions, 9.6 yards/catch, 0 TD's, 37 times targeted, 43.2% catch, 6 drops, 15.2% drops, 21.6% 1st downs

2005 - 16 games, 32 receptions, 14.0 yards/catch, 2 TD's, 53 times targeted, 70.4% catch, 3 drops, 5.7% drops, 39.6% 1st downs

2006 - 13 games, 34 receptions, 12.1 yards/catch, 2 TD's, 48 times targeted, 70.8% catch, 2 drops, 4.2% drops, 43.8% 1st downs

[THATHURMANATOR]

Honestly... I dunno what some of you expect from a #2...

Some of you should compare these stats to Don Beebee

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/playerstats.asp?id=5922&Submit=Go

Reed Career - 73 games, 177 receptions, 11.9 yards/catch, 8 TD's

2002 - 16 games, 37 receptions, 13.8 yards/catch, 2 TD's

2003 - 16 games, 58 receptions, 10.1 yards/catch, 2 TD's, 104 times targeted, 55.8% catch, 5 drops, 4.8% drops, 31.7% 1st downs

2004 - 12 games, 16 receptions, 9.6 yards/catch, 0 TD's, 37 times targeted, 43.2% catch, 6 drops, 15.2% drops, 21.6% 1st downs

2005 - 16 games, 32 receptions, 14.0 yards/catch, 2 TD's, 53 times targeted, 70.4% catch, 3 drops, 5.7% drops, 39.6% 1st downs

2006 - 13 games, 34 receptions, 12.1 yards/catch, 2 TD's, 48 times targeted, 70.8% catch, 2 drops, 4.2% drops, 43.8% 1st downs
Beebe was always a #3 receiver.

[patmoran2006]

I expect more than 8.2 yards per catch from our #2- that was the worst in the entire NFL among starters.

[raphael120]

he's a possession receiver, and usually those are in the ranks of 3rd string or less

[Yasgur's Farm]

Beebe was always a #3 receiver.OK... compare to Lofton then.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I expect more than 8.2 yards per catch from our #2- that was the worst in the entire NFL among starters.Josh Reed has career average of 11.9... Best year 14.0... Worst year 9.6

[patmoran2006]

Josh Reed has career average of 11.9... Best year 14.0... Worst year 9.6
i was talking about Peerless Price, our #2 last year.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Ahhh. Sorry... I agree with you!

[Philagape]

I expect a #2 WR to give the defense two WRs to think about instead of one.

[PECKERWOOD]

Other than Lee, Reed is the only other WR that we got capable of being a decent #2. Let's be honest here, we can't fill every single hole in just one off season. Were just gonna have to goto battle with what we have and hope for the best.

[OpIv37]

Other than Lee, Reed is the only other WR that we got capable of being a decent #2. Let's be honest here, we can't fill every single hole in just one off season. Were just gonna have to goto battle with what we have and hope for the best.

You make a good point about filling holes, except Reed has been a hole for 4 off-seasons, not one.

[PECKERWOOD]

You make a good point about filling holes, except Reed has been a hole for 4 off-seasons, not one.

Are you kidding? Reed (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302219) may not have lived up to his draft hype but he has atleast been a decent #3 WR. Oh, let me also add that Josh Reed has been our most physical and best blocking WR for the last 2-3 seasons. Also you need to take into consideration that Buffalo has only had a competent GM/Coach for 2 seasons now. Give them more time.

[OpIv37]

Are you kidding? Reed (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302219) may not have lived up to his draft hype but he has atleast been a decent #3 WR. Oh, let me also add that Josh Reed has been our most physical and best blocking WR for the last 2-3 seasons. Also you need to take into consideration that Buffalo has only had a competent GM/Coach for 2 seasons now. Give them more time.

a #3 that gets paid like a #2 and sometimes gets used as a #2. That's a hole IMO.

[PECKERWOOD]

a #3 that gets paid like a #2 and sometimes gets used as a #2. That's a hole IMO.

There is no question that we have a hole at WR but that wasn't my initial point. My point is that we are reinforcing the trenches on both sides of the football before we upgrade some of our skill positions. It wouldn't matter if we took Calvin Johnson in this years draft if we didn't fill the holes on our OL. Look next year for us to start taking more skill position players.

[The Answer]

Reed, Price, Parrish - they are all #3 receivers at best, especially Price at this stage in his career.

The Answer feels we should take a real hard look at Antonio Bryant.

~The Answer

[Michael82]

I hope Josh Reed excells with his chance. He'd make a very good #2 Wide Receiver opposite Lee Evans. Peerless Price and Roscoe Parrish can share the slot receiver spot. :up:

[Jan Reimers]

I think with a more stable offense and a maturing JP, that Reed, Price and Parrish will all put up better numbers.

[raphael120]

I hope Josh Reed excells with his chance. He'd make a very good #2 Wide Receiver opposite Lee Evans. Peerless Price and Roscoe Parrish can share the slot receiver spot. :up:

He lacks speed but he makes up for it by his physicality. Still rememeber that catch he took tot he house after breakin 2 tackles. Best reed moment i can remember.

That and the dude seems like a nice guy. I had really good seats at the Titans game and I yelled out to Reed and he turned around and smiled and waved. Every other player didn't acknowledge my drunken yelling...bastards.

[patmoran2006]

here's how I equate Josh Reed.

Josh Reed is the sexy girl in high school that all the guys wanted. Through hard work, perseverence and a little luck, you're the guy who scored her and after four years of courtship.

So you take the sexy girl to dinner and a movie.. At the end of the night you give her that big, long kiss you been waiting for. It's at that point you realize that the chick has the worse case of dragon breath in history.. After all that time and chasing, you finally make her yours and then her breath is unbearable. You break up with her and never call her again.

Josh Reed is the dragon breath girl. All the potential in the world, but a habitual let-down.

[Michael82]

I think with a more stable offense and a maturing JP, that Reed, Price and Parrish will all put up better numbers.
Don't forget that JP loves Reed too. He has always loved hooking up with Reed in training camp and will find him a lot on the field this year. :up:

[patmoran2006]

Don't forget that JP loves Reed too. He has always loved hooking up with Reed in training camp and will find him a lot on the field this year. :up:

he likes him so much that Reed has averaged 33 catches for 429 yards and 2 TD's in Losman's two years as the starter.

The guy is a BACKUP WR. I cannot understand why year after year (after year) more people just don't accept that. If he does end up starting, it will because Price is THAT bad.

Now having said that, I dont hate Reed. I think he's a GOOD 3rd or 4th WR and an excellent blocker.. But he isn't a starter

[Chris23]

Let him be a starter for a ****ING DOWN before you all ***** about the idea!

[Philagape]

Some people are talking about Reed as if he's a TD leftover that Marv hasn't replaced yet. Thing is, Marv re-signed him last year, so that makes him a Marv player. Therefore it's inaccurate to say Marv hasn't dealt with #2 WR yet ... he has, and his answer is Reed and Price.

[justasportsfan]

OMG!!!OMG!!!OMG!!!!! JP is completing passes at camp and REED is helping him do so. The Sky is falling!!


Jimminy !!!! How people can turn good news whether it's OTA's or not into a bad thing is beyond me.

People like to defend Moulds for having crappy QB's, coaches, OL> BREAKING NEWS Reed has had the same since he's been here.

[OpIv37]

I think with a more stable offense and a maturing JP, that Reed, Price and Parrish will all put up better numbers.

someone says this about these guys EVERY year and it never pans out.

[OpIv37]

OMG!!!OMG!!!OMG!!!!! JP is completing passes at camp and REED is helping him do so. The Sky is falling!!


Jimminy !!!! How people can turn good news whether it's OTA's or not into a bad thing is beyond me.

People like to defend Moulds for having crappy QB's, coaches, OL> BREAKING NEWS Reed has had the same since he's been here.

Despite all that Moulds still did a lot better than Reed. And coaching/QB's didn't give Reed the dropsies- he managed that all by himself.

[justasportsfan]

Despite all that Moulds still did a lot better than Reed. And coaching/QB's didn't give Reed the dropsies- he managed that all by himself.
He had one year of droppsies. I have facts that he didn't have the dropsies last year. YOU DON"T! Reed can only do so much when you have a qb who's trying to learn.

[OpIv37]

He had one year of droppsies. I have facts that he didn't have the dropsies last year. YOU DON"T! Reed can only do so much when you have a qb who's trying to learn.

really? You have facts? How? Drops aren't an official stat in the NFL.

You just contradicted yourself- you just tried to blame his lack of performance on prior coaches, then admitted he had a year of the dropsies. Which is it- the coaches or his own butterfingers? Coaches don't control whether players drop passes. Maybe if he didn't have the dropsies that year, a lot less people would be *****ing about him.

[patmoran2006]

1- I could've sworn a seen a couple of balls hit Reed right in his facemask and pop to the ground last year.. Are you KIDDING ME?

2- He is absolutely not a TD leftover but a Marv player, just like Phil said.

3- How many years and how much money does it cost to see year after year if guys like Reed, Kelsay and Coy Wire are going to finally "break through"?

Reed is a backup WR and he has been since entering the league, and its for a good reason. He's EARNED it.. Nobody has screwed him.

[X-Era]

Many people are beginning to believe with the numerous reps he has been getting with the first team that Josh Reed is favored to take over the 2nd WR spot.

As per WGR reports.

BTW, JP's every pass today is going for 6....is he Pro Bowl material this year or is our secondary just that horrid?

Also from WGR...

Its time to panic. I think we should start a thread and let all the other posters who eternally arent happy chime in.

Afterall, there is NO chance that the depth chart will change when we actually start REAL practices, play pre-season games, and make the final cuts.

In fact, Im now going to go ahead and throw away the 07 season because in May we etched in stone Josh Reed as the starter.

Again, I know we are bored, but lets not borrow trouble. Hang in there and in a few months real football will be back.

[patmoran2006]

Its time to panic. I think we should start a thread and let all the other posters who eternally arent happy chime in.

Afterall, there is NO chance that the depth chart will change when we actually start REAL practices, play pre-season games, and make the final cuts.

In fact, Im now going to go ahead and throw away the 07 season because in May we etched in stone Josh Reed as the starter.

Again, I know we are bored, but lets not borrow trouble. Hang in there and in a few months real football will be back.
I think FIVE YEARS of watching Josh Reed and his "potential" is enough to see that if he ends up as the #2 WR the unit as a whole is in big trouble.

he's not some rookie or 2nd year player with tons of untapped potential. At this stage with Reed what you've seen if what you'll get-- an honest effort, good blocking, a couple of nice catches, a couple of critical drops and a lack of speed to get down the field consistently. Sounds like a #3-4 WR to me.

[OpIv37]

Some people are talking about Reed as if he's a TD leftover that Marv hasn't replaced yet. Thing is, Marv re-signed him last year, so that makes him a Marv player. Therefore it's inaccurate to say Marv hasn't dealt with #2 WR yet ... he has, and his answer is Reed and Price.

it is inaccurate to say he hasn't dealt with it, but accurate to say he hasn't dealt with it sufficiently.

He's going to be forced to deal with it after this season anyway, because both of them have backloaded contracts that start getting costly in 2008.

[casdhf]

I think the #2 WR this season will put up descent numbers. If you see teams focusing on stopping the run, which you will, and Evans, which you will. That could open up the #2 WR and TE. I keep hearing Everett's name alot, which doesn't really suprise me. He had the talent, but just hasn't been healthy. Figures, he's in a contract year.

[X-Era]

1- I could've sworn a seen a couple of balls hit Reed right in his facemask and pop to the ground last year.. Are you KIDDING ME?

2- He is absolutely not a TD leftover but a Marv player, just like Phil said.

3- How many years and how much money does it cost to see year after year if guys like Reed, Kelsay and Coy Wire are going to finally "break through"?

Reed is a backup WR and he has been since entering the league, and its for a good reason. He's EARNED it.. Nobody has screwed him.

1) NO, right now in MAY OTA's, Jauron is serious....as serious as he should be in May OTA's.

2) Dont care if hes "gods" player, hes on this team....for now.

3) No team needs 22 starting pro-bowlers. In fact the bulk of the starters need to just be solid. Kelsay is arguably that, and Reed and Wire are fringe players getting a chance to show something...again when it doesnt matter in MAY.

Way to much frustration for the time of year.

[OpIv37]

I think FIVE YEARS of watching Josh Reed and his "potential" is enough to see that if he ends up as the #2 WR the unit as a whole is in big trouble.

he's not some rookie or 2nd year player with tons of untapped potential. At this stage with Reed what you've seen if what you'll get-- an honest effort, good blocking, a couple of nice catches, a couple of critical drops and a lack of speed to get down the field consistently. Sounds like a #3-4 WR to me.

No, Pat, you're wrong. This is going to be his breakout year. I know 2006 was supposed to be his breakout year. And 2005. And 2004. But this time, it really WILL be his breakout year.

Negative Nancy.

[patmoran2006]

I think the #2 WR this season will put up descent numbers. If you see teams focusing on stopping the run, which you will, and Evans, which you will. That could open up the #2 WR and TE. I keep hearing Everett's name alot, which doesn't really suprise me. He had the talent, but just hasn't been healthy. Figures, he's in a contract year.
If I was a gambling man, I'd almost be willing to bet $$ that Everett doesnt even make this team.

[The Answer]

Let him be a starter for a ****ING DOWN before you all ***** about the idea!

He's had 5 years to show something - but continues to drop balls, run poor routes and deliver in the clutch.

He's a #3 receiver at best - he's not going to turn into James Lofton at this point in his career.

~The Answer

[casdhf]

I could care less if he does or doesn't ... but either way, I think a TE will have the opportunity to catch some passes this year.

[Philagape]

it is inaccurate to say he hasn't dealt with it, but accurate to say he hasn't dealt with it sufficiently.

I totally agree. I was just countering the notion that Marv will address #2 WR but just hasn't yet.

[venis2k1]

a quick look back at the WRs taken in the 2002 nfl draft.

1st round.

13th overall Donté Stallworth
19th overall Ashley Lelie
20th overall Javon Walker

2nd round.

33rd overall jabar gaffney
36th overall josh reed
46th overall tim carter
47th overall andre davis(good st player though)
48th overall reche caldwell

i dont really know what my point is....but man thats a list full of disapointments.

[X-Era]

No, Pat, you're wrong. This is going to be his breakout year. I know 2006 was supposed to be his breakout year. And 2005. And 2004. But this time, it really WILL be his breakout year.

Negative Nancy.

Im not sure what I expect from a 3rd string WR. By "breakout" do you mean he should be a stud? Im not requiring that. Im requiring him to run a route, get open, and then catch the ball. If anyone, and I do mean anyone can do that better, cut him.

But Im not seeing what the issue is here, in May, Josh is getting a chance to catch the ball some???? AND??????

So what, he still probably gets cut unless the rest fo the backups stink worse than him.

[patmoran2006]

a quick look back at the WRs taken in the 2002 nfl draft.

1st round.

13th overall Donté Stallworth
19th overall Ashley Lelie
20th overall Javon Walker

2nd round.

33rd overall jabar gaffney
36th overall josh reed
46th overall tim carter
47th overall andre davis(good st player though)
48th overall reche caldwell

i dont really know what my point is....but man thats a list full of disapointments.
Deon Branch was taken in round two that year.. after Reed

[justasportsfan]

really? You have facts? How? Drops aren't an official stat in the NFL.

You just contradicted yourself- you just tried to blame his lack of performance on prior coaches, then admitted he had a year of the dropsies. Which is it- the coaches or his own butterfingers? Coaches don't control whether players drop passes. Maybe if he didn't have the dropsies that year, a lot less people would be *****ing about him.
BS I showed you stats before. You HAVE NONE!!!!!! But hey in your mind he sucks. DUHKay!!!

One year of dropssies make a bad player? :roflmao: IN YOUR WORLD.

Guess who was throwing him the rock ? Drew and we all know Drew is one of the worst patt the ball before missfiring a short pass. Moulds had the droppsies that very same year.

[raphael120]

Reed is on the cusp.

Someone needs to tell him sitting on the cusp for 4 years isn't good enough and that he needs to get his ass up off the cusp.

Actually...it is Reed's fault that he's no better than a #3 WR. but talent wise, he can only do what he can do, and I don't fault him there. If you're not good enough for be a great WR with the talents you have, youre limited by your own ability.

It's the FO's fault if he is made into a #2 WR.

It's the FO's fault that they didn't address this position seriously. Or addressed it with mediocrity and status quo.

[justasportsfan]

I don't care if his numbers are not impressive, anyone who thinks he hasn't been a factor in Jp's development needs to have their eyes checked. The guy is an asset to JP and the other players who he blocks for.

[raphael120]

I don't care if his numbers are not impressive, anyone who thinks he hasn't been a factor in Jp's development needs to have their eyes checked. The guy is an asset to JP and the other players who he blocks for.

Anyone with hands who can catch a ball would be an asset to JP. Doesn't mean it's a GREAT asset. Under this same idea, then Robert Royal is key to JP's development too. And so is the gatoraide guy who keeps him hydrated.

[justasportsfan]

Anyone with hands who can catch a ball would be an asset to JP. Doesn't mean it's a GREAT asset. Under this same idea, then Robert Royal is key to JP's development too. And so is the gatoraide guy who keeps him hydrated.


that's stupid.Aiken can catch, so can Davis. DUH!!!

Anone knows Reed had bailed out JP for 1st down especially on 3rd downs. I have FACTS you DON't.

AND Yes, Royals was key in JP's development. Everyone who was there in JP's turnarround last year was part of it. It's common sense.

[raphael120]

that's stupid.Aiken can catch, so can Davis. DUH!!!

Anone knows Reed had bailed out JP for 1st down especially on 3rd downs. I have FACTS you DON't.

AND Yes, Royals was key in JP's development. Everyone who was there in JP's turnarround last year was part of it. It's common sense.

We wouldn't need Reed to bail us out if we had a decent RB and a real 2nd string WR.

now we have the RB, and we'll see about the WR.

[raphael120]

that's stupid.Aiken can catch, so can Davis. DUH!!!



LOL

Aiken can catch? If he can catch so well why didn't he log a SINGLE RECEPTION last season!?!?!?

Davis can catch too?

Here's his stats last season:

2 receptions, 13 yards, 0 TDs.

He can catch reaaaaaaaaal good.

Dude...are you thinking when you're typing your posts or just in a geek rage?

[OpIv37]

BS I showed you stats before. You HAVE NONE!!!!!! But hey in your mind he sucks. DUHKay!!!

One year of dropssies make a bad player? :roflmao: IN YOUR WORLD.

Guess who was throwing him the rock ? Drew and we all know Drew is one of the worst patt the ball before missfiring a short pass. Moulds had the droppsies that very same year.

you're the one who's always satisfied with players like Reed. Yet, we never seem to win anything. If every player on this team is worth defending, why can't we win anything? This guy has been here for 4 years and all he's proven is that he's a #3 at best. Yet, every year people like you defend him.

Wait and see for 4 years? Gimme a ****ing break.

[justasportsfan]

LOL

Aiken can catch? If he can catch so well why didn't he log a SINGLE RECEPTION last season!?!?!?

Davis can catch too?

Here's his stats last season:

2 receptions, 13 yards, 0 TDs.

He can catch reaaaaaaaaal good.

Dude...are you thinking when you're typing your posts or just in a geek rage?
did I say he can get open ? I said he can catch. DUH!!! Have you ever been to camp? Did you read the OTA's. He can catch and the point is, not everyone that can catch is an asset to JP like you said. So You're wrong. Reed was and is an asset.

You're not very good at trying to be a Nancy . You're all over the place.

[justasportsfan]

you're the one who's always satisfied with players like Reed. Yet, we never seem to win anything. If every player on this team is worth defending, why can't we win anything? This guy has been here for 4 years and all he's proven is that he's a #3 at best. Yet, every year people like you defend him.

Wait and see for 4 years? Gimme a ****ing break.


Another stupid post. I can do a search were I said that we can use an upgrade but does he suck? NO! That's your job to say everyone we have sucks.

[OpIv37]

Another stupid post. I can do a search were I said that we can use an upgrade but does he suck? NO! That's your job to say everyone we have sucks.

well then if you think he can be upgraded, why the hell are you arguing with me? We're saying the same thing. I said his performance on the field never lives up to the preseason hype- and you agree that the position could use an upgrade, yet you're challenging everything I say anyway.

[raphael120]

did I say he can get open . I said he can catch. DUH!!! Have you ever been to camp? Did you read the OTA's. He can catch and the point is, not everyone that can catch is an asset to JP like you said. So You're wrong. Reed was and is an asset.

You're not very good at trying to be a Nancy . You're all over the place.

Uh...I don't care what anyone does in camp with no pads. I care what they do on the field in regular season.

And you lost me on the trying to be a nancy. I'm being me, and when it comes to the Bills im neither overly excited or overly pessimistic.

Ok, I'm done agrueing with you because it's like agrueing with someone who says the sky is red when I'm standing here looking up sayin...uh...dude..it's blue. Then you'll go off talkin about eating coffee grinds or something crazy.

[justasportsfan]

Uh...I don't care what anyone does in camp with no pads. I care what they do on the field in regular season.

And you lost me on the trying to be a nancy. I'm being me, and when it comes to the Bills im neither overly excited or overly pessimistic.

Ok, I'm done agrueing with you because it's like agrueing with someone who says the sky is red when I'm standing here looking up sayin...uh...dude..it's blue. Then you'll go off talkin about eating coffee grinds or something crazy.

:boring:

[Yasgur's Farm]

really? You have facts? How? Drops aren't an official stat in the NFL.

You just contradicted yourself- you just tried to blame his lack of performance on prior coaches, then admitted he had a year of the dropsies. Which is it- the coaches or his own butterfingers? Coaches don't control whether players drop passes. Maybe if he didn't have the dropsies that year, a lot less people would be *****ing about him.Justa's right... Official stat or not... Here's the link...

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/...5922&Submit=Go (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/playerstats.asp?id=5922&Submit=Go)


2006 - 48 times targeted, 70.8% catch, 2 drops, 4.2% drops, 43.8% 1st downs

2005 - 53 times targeted, 70.4% catch, 3 drops, 5.7% drops, 39.6% 1st downs

2004 - 37 times targeted, 43.2% catch, 6 drops, 15.2% drops, 21.6% 1st downs (This is the bad year justa's talking about... He had a knee injury)

2003 - 104 times targeted, 55.8% catch, 5 drops, 4.8% drops, 31.7% 1st downs

2002 - Not available

I once checked and found that 5% dropped passes is top 15 in the NFL. I also once checked this stat for TO... He was around 8%.

[patmoran2006]

If anyone wants to call someone who's averaged 33 catches and 448 yards and 2 Td's per season an "asset" (Reed's numbers since Losman started)-- then be my guest.. Ya, he's an asset, on a mediocre team.. On a better team, he'd be lucky to see the field.

What I have faith in however is that WR, TE will be a high priority for the Bills next off-season.. Except for EVans, I think that EVERYONE is playing for their jobs this year from those units

[Yasgur's Farm]

Reed's done well considering that he's gotten #3 reps for those 2 seasons (Behind Moulds/Evans and Evans/Price). As a #2 he'd see probably 20 to 30% more targets.

I'm sure the Bills could get a better #2 (and probably will this next offseason). But he's better than Price and Roscoe... AND HE CAN BLOCK. Therefore he should be the #2 this season.

[justasportsfan]

Justa's right... Official stat or not... Here's the link...

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/...5922&Submit=Go (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/playerstats.asp?id=5922&Submit=Go)


2006 - 48 times targeted, 70.8% catch, 2 drops, 4.2% drops, 43.8% 1st downs

2005 - 53 times targeted, 70.4% catch, 3 drops, 5.7% drops, 39.6% 1st downs

2004 - 37 times targeted, 43.2% catch, 6 drops, 15.2% drops, 21.6% 1st downs (This is the bad year justa's talking about... He had a knee injury)

2003 - 104 times targeted, 55.8% catch, 5 drops, 4.8% drops, 31.7% 1st downs

2002 - Not available

I once checked and found that 5% dropped passes is top 15 in the NFL. I also once checked this stat for TO... He was around 8%.



BURN !!!!!!!!!!!

[OpIv37]

Justa's right... Official stat or not... Here's the link...

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/...5922&Submit=Go (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/playerstats.asp?id=5922&Submit=Go)


2006 - 48 times targeted, 70.8% catch, 2 drops, 4.2% drops, 43.8% 1st downs

2005 - 53 times targeted, 70.4% catch, 3 drops, 5.7% drops, 39.6% 1st downs

2004 - 37 times targeted, 43.2% catch, 6 drops, 15.2% drops, 21.6% 1st downs (This is the bad year justa's talking about... He had a knee injury)

2003 - 104 times targeted, 55.8% catch, 5 drops, 4.8% drops, 31.7% 1st downs

2002 - Not available

I once checked and found that 5% dropped passes is top 15 in the NFL. I also once checked this stat for TO... He was around 8%.

how did they come up with those "drop" statistics? Are you sure that they didn't count some drops as QB errors? This is very subjective

Yet, you're arguing that Reed only got #3 reps- seems like that's a lot of drops for someone who isn't on the field very much.

And given what we're paying him and his ability coming out of college, why is Reed only a #3 anyway? This guy has NEVER lived up to his potential or his salary.

[Yasgur's Farm]

how did they come up with those "drop" statistics? Are you sure that they didn't count some drops as QB errors? This is very subjective1) If you dispute this info, come up with a link that supports your thoughts. Otherwise it's just a fart in the wind.


Yet, you're arguing that Reed only got #3 reps- seems like that's a lot of drops for someone who isn't on the field very much. 2) 5% is 5% regardless of having 150 catches or 20. Need I mention that he's caught 71% of his targets in spite of combined QB's who have averaged less than 60% completions.


nd given what we're paying him and his ability coming out of college, why is Reed only a #3 anyway? This guy has NEVER lived up to his potential or his salary. 3) Regardless... If he's the 2nd best WR on the team he should be #2.

[OpIv37]

5% is 5% regardless of having 150 catches or 20... If you dispute this info, come up with a link that supports your thoughts. Otherwise it's just a fart in the wind.

First of all, if you add up all the numbers and do the math, it's 6.6% over the course of his career, not 5%.

Second, this is just a website by some company. You don't know how accurate it is. You don't know what criteria they used to differentiate a drop from an errant pass or a good play by the defender. You don't know that they watched every game and you don't know if they love or hate the Bills or Josh Reed. I could create my own website and put whatever I wanted on there and it would have the same amount of credibility.

Third, even if I concede the fact that Josh Reed's drops are greatly exaggerated, that alone does not make him good enough. Neither him nor Price consistently take pressure off of Evans. He blocks well downfield but lacks speed and doesn't get open. He's never put up the numbers expected of him out of college.

So if you think finding some random website with drop information vindicates Josh Reed's poor performance, you really need to step back and look at the entire situation.

[OpIv37]

want to know why the Pats win and we lose? Cuz they go out and get guys like Welker and Stallworth and Moss (although I'm glad we don't have Moss) while we attempt to justify spending $20 million on Josh Reed and Peerless Price.

[Yasgur's Farm]

First of all, if you add up all the numbers and do the math, it's 6.6% over the course of his career, not 5%.

No disrespect... But don't change the rules... You disputed the last 2 years with JP as the starter. That's what I addressed. But if you wanna include his rookie and sophermore years, those are respectable numbers compared to almost anyone.


Second, this is just a website by some company. You don't know how accurate it is. You don't know what criteria they used to differentiate a drop from an errant pass or a good play by the defender. You don't know that they watched every game and you don't know if they love or hate the Bills or Josh Reed. I could create my own website and put whatever I wanted on there and it would have the same amount of credibility.I've invited you to supply any website of your choosing. You're free to do so.


Third, even if I concede the fact that Josh Reed's drops are greatly exaggerated, that alone does not make him good enough. Neither him nor Price consistently take pressure off of Evans. He blocks well downfield but lacks speed and doesn't get open. He's never put up the numbers expected of him out of college.If he's the 2nd best WR on the team, he should be #2... End of argument.

[G. Host]

Are you kidding? Reed (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302219) may not have lived up to his draft hype but he has atleast been a decent #3 WR. Oh, let me also add that Josh Reed has been our most physical and best blocking WR for the last 2-3 seasons. Also you need to take into consideration that Buffalo has only had a competent GM/Coach for 2 seasons now. Give them more time.

And only a competant QB for 1 1/2 years - 1 year under Bledsoe and half year with Losman. If Losman can start like he reportedly ended (I did not see last 4 games being on road) and Losman can learn to throw the underneith stuff better then Reed has a true opprotunity to shine. It is not all up to Losman but it starts with Losman.

[OpIv37]

No disrespect... But don't change the rules... You disputed the last 2 years with JP as the starter. That's what I addressed. But if you wanna include his rookie and sophermore years, those are respectable numbers compared to almost anyone.

I've invited you to supply any website of your choosing. You're free to do so.

If he's the 2nd best WR on the team, he should be #2... End of argument.

Fair enough- 5% over the last two years. Still, drops aren't his only problem.

Me supplying a website doesn't make yours any more credible.

If he's the 2nd best receiver on the team, we have two options:
1) Find better receivers
2) Lose games because our receivers aren't good enough (after Evans, of course).

[Yasgur's Farm]

Fair enough- 5% over the last two years. Still, drops aren't his only problem.

Me supplying a website doesn't make yours any more credible.

If he's the 2nd best receiver on the team, we have two options:
1) Find better receivers
2) Lose games because our receivers aren't good enough (after Evans, of course).Agreed

[gr8slayer]

The depth chart is going to change a thousand times from now to opening day. Don't look into it too much. That said, Reed is one of my favorite Bills and probably our toughest player/best run blocking WR. I hope he turns it up a few notches this season.

[John Doe]

Josh Reed is definately an asset to the team. He will never be about the stats and the coaches do not expect him to rack up a lot of catches. He is about physical play including tough catches over the middle where other receivers fear to tread.

The Bills do not have a #2 or a #3 receiver. We have a group of situational recievers (Price, Reed, Parrish) that have a variety of skill sets. As a group, they were effective last year and I expect them to be effective this year as well. Losman had a high completion percentage because receivers other than Lee Evans were catching the ball.

[G. Host]

Reed's done well considering that he's gotten #3 reps for those 2 seasons (Behind Moulds/Evans and Evans/Price). As a #2 he'd see probably 20 to 30% more targets.

I'm sure the Bills could get a better #2 (and probably will this next offseason). But he's better than Price and Roscoe... AND HE CAN BLOCK. Therefore he should be the #2 this season.

Reed has done well for the fact many times he was used as a blocker when he was used as a WR, Bledsoe had trouble throwing to underneith guy and Losman was spending a good amount of time locked into one WR.

[G. Host]

If he's the 2nd best receiver on the team, we have two options:
1) Find better receivers
2) Lose games because our receivers aren't good enough (after Evans, of course).
3) An option you do not seem to consider is getting a QB who can throw the ball better to him either by improvement or by replacing him.

[OpIv37]

3) An option you do not seem to consider is getting a QB who can throw the ball better to him either by improvement or by replacing him.

because changing receivers is much easier than changing QB's.

[OpIv37]

Josh Reed is definately an asset to the team. He will never be about the stats and the coaches do not expect him to rack up a lot of catches. He is about physical play including tough catches over the middle where other receivers fear to tread.

The Bills do not have a #2 or a #3 receiver. We have a group of situational recievers (Price, Reed, Parrish) that have a variety of skill sets. As a group, they were effective last year and I expect them to be effective this year as well. Losman had a high completion percentage because receivers other than Lee Evans were catching the ball.

That's fine sometimes- if it's 3rd and 20 or if we're down by 6 with 1:45 left, other teams know we have to go long so the situational receivers don't matter- everyone knows what we're going to do.

But if it's 1st and 10 at our own 35 on the opening drive of the game, the entire playbook is open- having a situational receiver might tip off the D. Obviously we're not going to send Parrish over the middle or run a HB screen to Parrish's side. Obviously we're not going to run Reed on a fly pattern (well, I suppose we could try those things but they're not likely to work so it really doesn't matter).

[John Doe]

But if it's 1st and 10 at our own 35 on the opening drive of the game, the entire playbook is open- having a situational receiver might tip off the D. Obviously we're not going to send Parrish over the middle or run a HB screen to Parrish's side. Obviously we're not going to run Reed on a fly pattern (well, I suppose we could try those things but they're not likely to work so it really doesn't matter).

That could just as easily work in the Bills favor, e.g. show run then pass with Reed.

If a defense keys on what Reed, Price, or Parrish are doing with the other weapons that the Bills now have (Lynch, Evans) then they are really setting themselves up for failure.

[OpIv37]

That could just as easily work in the Bills favor, e.g. show run then pass with Reed.

If a defense keys on what Reed, Price, or Parrish are doing with the other weapons that the Bills now have (Lynch, Evans) then they are really setting themselves up for failure.

If they can come up with some plays that work despite the weakness of the situational receiver, I could see how it would work to Buffalo's favor.

I wasn't talking about keying on them as much as using them as a key to the offense, ie "Reed's on the field- it's probably a run to that side or a HB Screen" or "Parrish is on the field- watch for a WR screen or a deep ball." They know Reed isn't a deep threat and Parrish isn't a blocking threat, so they can use that as a tip-off to what the O is doing.

[justasportsfan]

Reed has been from day one a reliable wr that JP went to when he need to . Reliable especially on 3rd downs and as far as I can remember, he's caught for 1st downs on 3rd downs which are critical and move the chains.


Ever since he's been here the team has never had a decent OL. He's been asked to help out a crappy OL and has stepped up to be one of the best blocking wr's IN THE ENTIRE NFL.

He may not be a downfield threat but he's been JP's go to guy in the short game.

[OpIv37]

Reed has been from day one a reliable wr that JP went to when he need to . Reliable especially on 3rd downs and as far as I can remember, he's caught for 1st downs on 3rd downs which are critical and move the chains.


Ever since he's been here the team has never had a decent OL. He's been asked to help out a crappy OL and has stepped up to be one of the best blocking wr's IN THE ENTIRE NFL.

He may not be a downfield threat but he's been JP's go to guy in the short game.

McGahee and Henry both had 1400 yard seasons behind that crap OL and it didn't seem to hurt Evans much.

[gr8slayer]

McGahee and Henry both had 1400 yard seasons behind that crap OL and it didn't seem to hurt Evans much.
McGahee never had more than 1,247 yards in one season.

[G. Host]

3) An option you do not seem to consider is getting a QB who can throw the ball better to him either by improvement or by replacing him.

because changing receivers is much easier than changing QB's.
Then we should have kept Rob Johnson for it was much more difficult on franchise to dump him and his wasted salary. And I included "by improvement" so obviously you are saying Losman can not improve and be able to do what Reed does well - catch the ball and make yards by breaking tackles. I thought Losman was improving and I finally was having hope but I see you do not see even hope for Losman.

[YardRat]

If the offense progresses as much as I expect them to this season, I think Price is going to have a really good year out of the #2 slot...he still has something to give, and he's much better suited for the position than Reed. Josh is a prototypical #3 slot receiver...Nothing more, nothing less.

[OpIv37]

Then we should have kept Rob Johnson for it was much more difficult on franchise to dump him and his wasted salary. And I included "by improvement" so obviously you are saying Losman can not improve and be able to do what Reed does well - catch the ball and make yards by breaking tackles. I thought Losman was improving and I finally was having hope but I see you do not see even hope for Losman.

Wow, back up- I never said any of that.

If a QB isn't working you obviously have to dump him, but that's not the case with Losman. YOU'RE the one blaming Losman for Reed's struggles- well if that's the case, how do you explain Evans? How do you explain the fact that Reed wasn't any better when Holcomb and Bledsoe were throwing to him? Holcomb ONLY throws short passes and it STILL didn't help Reed.

And I never said anything about JP not being able to improve- all I said was "changing receivers is easier than changing QB's". That's not exactly rocket science- it's common knowledge that QB has the highest learning curve in the NFL. I don't know how the hell you extrapolate that into JP not being able to improve.

[OpIv37]

McGahee never had more than 1,247 yards in one season.

I stand corrected- while the OL didn't help the situation, we can't blame ALL Reed's struggles on the OL- he has to take responsibility for his performance too.

[G. Host]

Wow, back up- I never said any of that.

If a QB isn't working you obviously have to dump him, but that's not the case with Losman. YOU'RE the one blaming Losman for Reed's struggles- well if that's the case, how do you explain Evans? How do you explain the fact that Reed wasn't any better when Holcomb and Bledsoe were throwing to him? Holcomb ONLY throws short passes and it STILL didn't help Reed.

And I never said anything about JP not being able to improve- all I said was "changing receivers is easier than changing QB's". That's not exactly rocket science- it's common knowledge that QB has the highest learning curve in the NFL. I don't know how the hell you extrapolate that into JP not being able to improve.

You replied to PART of what I said and I even quoted myself to make sure you saw entire comment - and ignored the part which you did not want to address that Reed will improve has Losman improves his game and becomes a better QB.

I am not BLAMING him for the struggles just saying Losman's stuggles contributed to them. Without a QB getting him them ball ideally a WR needs to make his own opprotunities which Reed did several times breaking tackles when ball was thrown short.

Evans is a downfield receiver which suits a long gun QB which Losman has shown he is. Making the shorter throws accurately is more difficult for him as is diagnosing defenses.

Reed has had one bad year - the rest have been respectable. They may not ve as good as some have hoped but was good enough to get him signed again.

Are you saying Holcomb was a good QB? I thought the board and your opinion was he wasn't. Bledsoe was good one year and that was the year Reed and Price had their best years.

[OpIv37]

You replied to PART of what I said and I even quoted myself to make sure you saw entire comment - and ignored the part which you did not want to address that Reed will improve has Losman improves his game and becomes a better QB.

I am not BLAMING him for the struggles just saying Losman's stuggles contributed to them. Without a QB getting him them ball ideally a WR needs to make his own opprotunities which Reed did several times breaking tackles when ball was thrown short.

Evans is a downfield receiver which suits a long gun QB which Losman has shown he is. Making the shorter throws accurately is more difficult for him as is diagnosing defenses.

Reed has had one bad year - the rest have been respectable. They may not ve as good as some have hoped but was good enough to get him signed again.

Are you saying Holcomb was a good QB? I thought the board and your opinion was he wasn't. Bledsoe was good one year and that was the year Reed and Price had their best years.

I think Holcomb is a decent back-up- that's about it. But he mainly throws short passes, so by your logic, Reed should have done better with a QB with more touch like Holcomb, but he didn't.

Here's the problem- you even said that Reed hasn't done as good as some people hoped. We were 7-9. That means there were guys on this team who weren't good enough. IMO Reed is one of them. Or, maybe Reed is a suitable #3 and the coaches are trying to force him to be a #2- I don't know. I just know that we need a more consistent receiver opposite Evans to win games and Reed has yet to show he can do that. For that matter, Price and Parrish haven't shown it either.

Parrish's salary is minimal but this organization has $20 million tied up in Reed and Price. One of them better step up because with their backloaded contracts, one or both will be gone next year.

[henrybacker]

How do the Reed supporters feel about the contract Marv gave him?

[G. Host]

I think Holcomb is a decent back-up- that's about it. But he mainly throws short passes, so by your logic, Reed should have done better with a QB with more touch like Holcomb, but he didn't.

Nobody did well that year - Losman or Holcomb - and Reed was recovering with a broken foot. The OC and head coach were terrible.



Here's the problem- you even said that Reed hasn't done as good as some people hoped.
Some people hope for us to have all ProBowl players - it will not happen.
Some people will be unhappy all of the time but they ought to take antiacids or take up a less competitive sport like tiddywinks.



We were 7-9. That means there were guys on this team who weren't good enough.
GM, HC, OC and many of the players cut weren't food enough - that is why many were cut. Losman was terrible part of last year and if he was not some golden boy for some the usual linch squad there would be calling for him to be replaced but Holcomb and Bledsoe before him were hated more by them.




IMO Reed is one of them. Or, maybe Reed is a suitable #3 and the coaches are trying to force him to be a #2- I don't know. I just know that we need a more consistent receiver opposite Evans to win games and Reed has yet to show he can do that. For that matter, Price and Parrish haven't shown it either.

From observation Reed appears to be a 2A WR player - the Bills will not be going with 2 primary WRs lbut ike they are doing with DL distributing plays based on matchups using Reed, Price, a combination of Reed and Price and a 4 WR sets. They did not need to re-sign him but OC and WR coach like him and his skills. They want the WRs, like the DL, to spend their energy in bursts which means when they take plays off it is on the bench not on the field. It appears to be their entire philosphy except for with QB and partially OL. They rotate in TEs, LBs, safeties, DL, RB and occasionally OL. And I think our 4 WR set is better than many teams 4 WR set

When Losman gets used to finding holes in defense rather than reacting and focusing on one WR (Evans) the other WRs will get more opprotunities to catch the ball but it starts with the QB. I wasn't happy about Price being brought back but I am assuming they coaching staff knows more than I do until they show a bad pattern like previous staff did.




IParrish's salary is minimal but this organization has $20 million tied up in Reed and Price. One of them better step up because with their backloaded contracts, one or both will be gone next year.

I think both realize it but the backloading is not as bad as some claim for the cap inflation has made many contracts which look expensive look like bargins. And the contracts are built so Bills can carry them.

[Meathead]

a whole thread just chock fulla my *****es

[justasportsfan]

McGahee and Henry both had 1400 yard seasons behind that crap OL and it didn't seem to hurt Evans much.

WTF has HEnry or Willis rush yards have to do with helping JP in developing? FYI even though you have the wrong info on Willis' rush yards, Reed has blocked for Willis too.

[Jan Reimers]

WTF has HEnry or Willis rush yards have to do with helping JP in developing? FYI even though you have the wrong info on Willis' rush yards, Reed has blocked for Willis too.
The negmeisters never let facts - even when their facts are wrong - get in the way of their opinions.

[OpIv37]

WTF has HEnry or Willis rush yards have to do with helping JP in developing? FYI even though you have the wrong info on Willis' rush yards, Reed has blocked for Willis too.

yeah gr8 already corrected me on Willis' yards.

But my point is that the OL didn't hold back Henry and it didn't hold back Willis in 04 and it didn't hold back Evans, so at some point Reed has to be responsible for his own performance.

Also, you're saying Reed had to help block for Willis- ok, that's fine. But how does blocking on RUNNING plays hurt his RECEIVING numbers? There is no logical connection there.

[justasportsfan]

The negmeisters never let facts - even when their facts are wrong - get in the way of their opinions.
we could've had Jerry Rice in his prime, they'd find a way to ***** about him.

[OpIv37]

we could've had Jerry Rice in his prime, they'd find a way to ***** about him.

has this team WON anything since this message board has come into existence?
Until this team wins and people are still *****ing, you have no basis for that assumption.

[justasportsfan]

yeah gr8 already corrected me on Willis' yards.

But my point is that the OL didn't hold back Henry and it didn't hold back Willis in 04 and it didn't hold back Evans, so at some point Reed has to be responsible for his own performance.

Also, you're saying Reed had to help block for Willis- ok, that's fine. But how does blocking on RUNNING plays hurt his RECEIVING numbers? There is no logical connection there.


I don't give a rats ass about what you think about his nos because you have time and again PROVEN you are not capable of looking into the positive side of things. All you are capable of doing is concentrate on the negative side of things and whine about it all day.

All I care about is his relation to JP and how he's help JP develop into the qb that he is. Reed was a MAJOR factor no matter what OPINION you have of him. I'll take FACTS over your whiny OPINION.

[OpIv37]

I don't give a rats ass about what you think about his nos because you have time and again PROVEN you are not capable of looking into the positive side of things. All you are capable of doing is concentrate on the negative side of things and whine about it all day.

All I care about is his relation to JP and how he's help JP develop into the qb that he is. Reed was a MAJOR factor no matter what OPINION you have of him. I'll take FACTS over your whiny OPINION.

It's your OPINION that Reed was a major factor and it's at least equally as whiny as my OPINION. Every time someone criticizes the team or a player, you whine about the criticism.

So, fine, We'll just keep finding ways to defend players who aren't performing and then we'll always be 7-9 or worse.

[justasportsfan]

It's your OPINION that Reed was a major factor and it's at least equally as whiny as my OPINION. .
We have stats/facts to back up my opinion . YOU HAVE NONE to back your whiny opinion.

[gr8slayer]

I still think that Losman trusts Reed more than he trusts anyone, even Evans. Reed might not be as physically talented as Evans but he is tough as nails and catches everything Losman throws to him. What Evans lacks Reed has, what Reed lacks Evans has.

[justasportsfan]

I still think that Losman trusts Reed more than he trusts anyone, even Evans. Reed might not be as physically talented as Evans but he is tough as nails and catches everything Losman throws to him. What Evans lacks Reed has, what Reed lacks Evans has.
Na. we're both seeing things. Reed sucks according to OP.

[OpIv37]

We have stats/facts to back up my opinion . YOU HAVE NONE to back your whiny opinion.

Actually, we have the same stats. You look at them and say "meh, good enough". I look at them and say "We have to do better than this if we're going to win". 7-9 backs up my opinion moreso than yours.

[gr8slayer]

Na. we're both seeing things. Reed sucks according to OP.
Well put it this way, he may not be a superstar on another team but he is our second best WR IMO.

Evans>Reed>Price>Parrish

[OpIv37]

Well put it this way, he may not be a superstar on another team but he is our second best WR IMO.

Evans>Reed>Price>Parrish

and that's a scary thought. We need to do better than Reed if we're going to win.

[justasportsfan]

Actually, we have the same stats. You look at them and say "meh, good enough". I look at them and say "We have to do better than this if we're going to win". 7-9 backs up my opinion moreso than yours.

haha! Desperate for facts that that 7-9 is now Reeds fault :roflmao:

Wait, you're right Reed can't stop the run, he sicks! :roflmao:


The facts shown have proven he's an asset and doesn't suck. I've said we could use an upgrade but HE DOESN"T SUCK.

So the facts prove me right and YOU WRONG.

[justasportsfan]

Well put it this way, he may not be a superstar on another team but he is our second best WR IMO.

Evans>Reed>Price>Parrish


I'm not disagreeing with you. All I'm saying is that he doesn't suck like OP says WITHOUT FACTS that say he does.

[gr8slayer]

and that's a scary thought. We need to do better than Reed if we're going to win.
You can't have a superstar at every position.

[OpIv37]

haha! Desperate for facts that that 7-9 is now Reeds fault :roflmao:

Wait, you're right Reed can't stop the run, he sicks! :roflmao:


The facts shown have proven he's an asset and doesn't suck. I've said we could use an upgrade but HE DOESN"T SUCK.

So the facts prove me right and YOU WRONG.

I've been trying to say that Reed isn't good enough. You say we could use an upgrade. But you're still whining because someone said something negative about the team. Boo-hoo. When the team underperforms for the better part of a decade, fans are going to say negative things. If you don't like it, go root for the Colts or the Patriots.

[OpIv37]

You can't have a superstar at every position.

I am so ****ing sick of hearing that.

we have ONE pro bowler on D and ONE on O. I think we can do better than that.

And more importantly, there is a happy medium between Josh Reed and "superstar". Just because we can't have a superstar at every position doesn't mean we should settle for guys like Reed and Price.

[justasportsfan]

I've been trying to say that Reed isn't good enough. You say we could use an upgrade. But you're still whining because someone said something negative about the team. Boo-hoo. When the team underperforms for the better part of a decade, fans are going to say negative things. If you don't like it, go root for the Colts or the Patriots.

WRONG! You've been saying Reed sucks.

7-9 is a team record. It's not a Josh Reed record. But go ahead and use it beccause the stats provided by Draz proved YOU WRONG and you're deperately trying to find nos. to help you out. :roflmao:

[OpIv37]

WRONG! You've been saying Reed sucks.

7-9 is a team record. It's not a Josh Reed record. But go ahead and use it beccause the stats provided by Draz proved YOU WRONG and you're deperately trying to find nos. to help you out. :roflmao:

SHOW ME where I said he sucks. I said he's never lived up to expectations. I said he doesn't consistently take pressure off of Evans. I said he's had problems with drops (and even though he's improved, he had a season with 5 drops and one with 6 drops, so he has had problems there), and I've even admitted that he blocks well.

I never said he sucks- I said we need to do better.

It makes me sick that people go to such great lengths to defend mediocre players who don't help us win.

[gr8slayer]

I am so ****ing sick of hearing that.

we have ONE pro bowler on D and ONE on O. I think we can do better than that.

And more importantly, there is a happy medium between Josh Reed and "superstar". Just because we can't have a superstar at every position doesn't mean we should settle for guys like Reed and Price.
First off since when do Pro Bowls tell how good or bad a player is? Secondly, no **** we have no Pro-Bowlers, we are a small market P.O.S. to the rest of the league. I guarantee you had Evans been playing in Dallas last year he would have been to the Pro Bowl, or even Peters. Pro Bowls mean dick.

[OpIv37]

First off since when do Pro Bowls tell how good or bad a player is? Secondly, no **** we have no Pro-Bowlers, we are a small market P.O.S. to the rest of the league. I guarantee you had Evans been playing in Dallas last year he would have been to the Pro Bowl, or even Peters. Pro Bowls mean dick.

if we had 7 guys going to the Pro Bowl, there is no way in hell you'd be saying that.

Pro Bowls don't necessarily mean a player is a superstar and not going to the Pro Bowl doesn't mean a player isn't a star, but it's an indicator that a player has played well for football fans and writers around the nation to have taken notice.

No one on our roster has done that. You can argue that Moorman was snubbed but its tough to argue that anyone on our O or D deserved to be there other than Evans and Schobel, who have been there.

[gr8slayer]

if we had 7 guys going to the Pro Bowl, there is no way in hell you'd be saying that.

Pro Bowls don't necessarily mean a player is a superstar and not going to the Pro Bowl doesn't mean a player isn't a star, but it's an indicator that a player has played well for football fans and writers around the nation to have taken notice.

No one on our roster has done that. You can argue that Moorman was snubbed but its tough to argue that anyone on our O or D deserved to be there other than Evans and Schobel, who have been there.
So in '04 we had Adams, Spikes, Clements, McGee, Moorman and we still didn't make the play-offs. There's five "super-stars," based on your logic we should have made it easily.

[OpIv37]

So in '04 we had Adams, Spikes, Clements, McGee, Moorman and we still didn't make the play-offs. There's five "super-stars," based on your logic we should have made it easily.

Notice: ZERO on offense. Our D was ranked #2 in the league that year and more than good enough for the playoffs. The O was horrid. Unbalanced teams rarely win.

BTW, with 1 Pro Bowler last year instead of 4, our D ranked 18th (and 28th against the run) instead of 2nd. So, having those three extra pro bowlers helped the D tremendously.

Way to manipulate stats and not look at the whole picture. You and justa have tunnel vision.

[raphael120]

I still think that Losman trusts Reed more than he trusts anyone, even Evans. Reed might not be as physically talented as Evans but he is tough as nails and catches everything Losman throws to him. What Evans lacks Reed has, what Reed lacks Evans has.


It's understandable why people are not optimistic at having a 3rd/4th string WR being a number two. But at the same time, it's been awhile since he's been in that role, and he could catch fire. But while I'll give the homers the benefit of the doubt...if he implodes this season and just stinks it up, I think you should bake a cake for Op. Hahahaha

[justasportsfan]

SHOW ME where I said he sucks. I said he's never lived up to expectations. I said he doesn't consistently take pressure off of Evans. I said he's had problems with drops (and even though he's improved, he had a season with 5 drops and one with 6 drops, so he has had problems there), and I've even admitted that he blocks well.

I never said he sucks- I said we need to do better..you've stated that he holds the team back . Players that hold the team back are liabilities, players that suck. Josh is neither.



It makes me sick that people go to such great lengths to defend mediocre players who don't help us win.. I'm tired of whiners that don't have facts . The facts show Reed helps us win and contributes. You don't have any.

You're whining just to whine again.

[OpIv37]

you've stated that he holds the team back .

I'm tired of whiners that don't have facts . The facts show Reed helps us win and contributes. You don't have any.

You're whining just to whine again.

You're just whining about me whining.

Every now and then, Reed comes through and puts up some numbers, and people like you instantly forget about the numerous times when he didn't do ****. The reason this team keeps losing is because they stand by players like Reed instead of upgrading. We could get away with a few guys like Reed if the rest of the team was better, but it's not so something has to give.

I don't know why you're giving me so much **** about a player that even you admit could be upgraded. I'm not the only one who's not satisfied with him.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Why don't you two just get a room already..... :ill: :D

[justasportsfan]

You're just whining about me whining.

Every now and then, Reed comes through and puts up some numbers, and people like you instantly forget about the numerous times when he didn't do ****. The reason this team keeps losing is because they stand by players like Reed instead of upgrading. We could get away with a few guys like Reed if the rest of the team was better, but it's not so something has to give.

I don't know why you're giving me so much **** about a player that even you admit could be upgraded. I'm not the only one who's not satisfied with him.


Haha! So now he comes through yet before you said he doesn't do a damn thing .

Josh is an asset to the team. You keep t amking look worse than he really is. He's not a liability like you make him out to be when you say he doesn't do a damn thing.

[OpIv37]

Haha! So now he comes through yet before you said he doesn't do a damn thing .

Josh is an asset to the team. You keep t amking look worse than he really is. He's not a liability like you make him out to be when you say he doesn't do a damn thing.

At times he's a liability and even when he's not a liability he's usually not good enough. It's good to have a receiver that blocks but he needs to be able to receive too (that's why they call them "receivers" and not "wide blockers"). You keep making him look better than he reallys (despite your admission that we could use an upgrade)

You can argue semantics all you want but on the whole he's just not good enough. You said we could use an upgrade but now you say he's an asset to the team.

[justasportsfan]

At times he's a liability and even when he's not a liability he's usually not good enough. It's good to have a receiver that blocks but he needs to be able to receive too (that's why they call them "receivers" and not "wide blockers"). You keep making him look better than he reallys (despite your admission that we could use an upgrade)

You can argue semantics all you want but on the whole he's just not good enough. You said we could use an upgrade but now you say he's an asset to the team.


Yup It would be nice to have 2 no 1's like when Price and Moulds had 1000 yds. Never said reed was a no. 1 but That doesn't mean that Reed is a liability, maybe in your world.


He's an asset. The stats prove it. He contributes, the stats prove it.

You have no stats to prove your opinion of him.

[THATHURMANATOR]

My feeling is that he has the talent to be an adequate #2. Our offense is going to be a more power running attack IMO so his blocking will be a plus.

[OpIv37]

Yup It would be nice to have 2 no 1's like when Price and Moulds had 1000 yds. Never said reed was a no. 1 but That doesn't mean that Reed is a liability, maybe in your world.


He's an asset. The stats prove it. He contributes, the stats prove it.

You have no stats to prove your opinion of him.

Do you understand the logical fallacy in what you're asking? You want stats to prove what Reed DIDN'T do. How can there be stats for something that NEVER happened?

Just watch the damn games and you'll see a guy who's not open and doesn't get downfield.

And aren't you the one who usually says stats don't mean everything?

[OpIv37]

My feeling is that he has the talent to be an adequate #2. Our offense is going to be a more power running attack IMO so his blocking will be a plus.

where do you get that feeling from? He's been here 4 years and hasn't established himself as an adequate #2 yet.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Do you understand the logical fallacy in what you're asking? You want stats to prove what Reed DIDN'T do. How can there be stats for something that NEVER happened?

Just watch the damn games and you'll see a guy who's not open and doesn't get downfield.
I can see what you are saying. I feel he gets open in the shorter routes but he certainly does not have the speed to go deep, But that is Evan's territory.

[justasportsfan]

Why don't you two just get a room already..... :ill: :D
Sorry bro. I can't stand crybabies. But I'll be more understanding that Op is who he is. No sense anymore in trying fight it. All this time I've been trying to help him see that where there is something negative, there's also something positive. His world is always gloomy.

[raphael120]

You're just whining about me whining.

Every now and then, Reed comes through and puts up some numbers, and people like you instantly forget about the numerous times when he didn't do ****. The reason this team keeps losing is because they stand by players like Reed instead of upgrading. We could get away with a few guys like Reed if the rest of the team was better, but it's not so something has to give.

I don't know why you're giving me so much **** about a player that even you admit could be upgraded. I'm not the only one who's not satisfied with him.


I just dont like the fact that he's getting so much money, either. Take his money, throw another million onto it and we could actually pick up a decent FA.

[patmoran2006]

OP.. STOP bothering to debate with someone who has not the FIRST CLUE what he's talking about...

If these are what you call stats for a solid "asset" then we're pretty sad.

| WK OPP | RSHYD | REC YD | TD |
+----------+--------+-------------+----+
| 1 nwe (http://www.profootball-reference.com/teams/nwe2006.htm) | 0 | 3 40 | 0 |
| 2 mia (http://www.profootball-reference.com/teams/mia2006.htm) | 0 | 4 39 | 1 |
| 3 nyj (http://www.profootball-reference.com/teams/nyj2006.htm) | 0 | 4 45 | 0 |
| 4 min (http://www.profootball-reference.com/teams/min2006.htm) | 0 | 4 43 | 0 |
| 5 chi (http://www.profootball-reference.com/teams/chi2006.htm) | 0 | 0 0 | 0 |
| 6 det (http://www.profootball-reference.com/teams/det2006.htm) | 0 | 3 24 | 0 |
| 7 nwe (http://www.profootball-reference.com/teams/nwe2006.htm) | 1 | 4 32 | 0 |
| 9 gnb (http://www.profootball-reference.com/teams/gnb2006.htm) | 0 | 1 6 | 0 |
| 13 sdg (http://www.profootball-reference.com/teams/sdg2006.htm) | 0 | 4 50 | 0 |
| 14 nyj (http://www.profootball-reference.com/teams/nyj2006.htm) | 0 | 1 11 | 0 |
| 15 mia (http://www.profootball-reference.com/teams/mia2006.htm) | -6 | 4 50 | 1 |
| 16 ten (http://www.profootball-reference.com/teams/oti2006.htm) | 15 | 2 70 | 0 |
| 17 bal (http://www.profootball-reference.com/teams/rav2006.htm) | 3 | 0 0 | 0 |
+----------+--------+-------------+----+
| TOTAL | 13 | 34 410 | 2 |

[OpIv37]

Sorry bro. I can't stand crybabies. But I'll be more understanding that Op is who he is. No sense anymore in trying fight it. All this time I've been trying to help him see that where there is something negative, there's also something positive. His world is always gloomy.

do you watch the same team I do? Every year there's something positive, and every year the results on the field are the same. I'm sick of getting my hopes up because of some tiny glimmer of hope only to be disappointed again once the game starts. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than horrifically disappointed (yet again).

And despite your inaccurate characterization of me, I'm not gloomy just to be gloomy. I think we have reason to believe Losman can improve and be a decent starter. I think we have reason to believe the OL will be better and the running game will be better cuz of the OL and Lynch. When it comes to Reed, though, he has yet to live up to expectations. When it comes to the D, everything is either negative or unproven. So in those cases, the negative outweighs the positive and I'm not going to get my hopes up solely on the remote possibility of something bad to happen.

[Meathead]

http://www.cagle.com/working/060113/lester.gif

[justasportsfan]

:rofl:

[THATHURMANATOR]

where do you get that feeling from? He's been here 4 years and hasn't established himself as an adequate #2 yet.
From his rookie year actually. He looked like a sure fire prospect with great hands and then boom huge struggles. He had a year of the dropsees and it seemed like he lost total confidence. Keep in mind I am saying adequate nothing more. I am thinking he has the talent to get 40 to 50 catches and 700 yards.

[raphael120]

From his rookie year actually. He looked like a sure fire prospect with great hands and then boom huge struggles. He had a year of the dropsees and it seemed like he lost total confidence. Keep in mind I am saying adequate nothing more. I am thinking he has the talent to get 40 to 50 catches and 700 yards.

Is that what we should expect from our 2nd WR?

[Yasgur's Farm]

I'd be curious to find out what the average #2 WR produced last season.

Regarding Reeds #'s... Obviously at #3 he hasn't gotten the same number of targets as a #2 would get.

Example... In '06 he was the target only 48 times. He caught an astonishing 70.8% of those passes. Price was the target 77 times converting 63.6% into catches. Given Reed's catch percentage, he would have caught 55 balls last season if he got Price's 77 targets instead of 48.

Reallity is that teams like the Bengals got 132 targets to their #2 WR... Once again, given Reed's catch percentage, he'd haul in 93 balls.

BTW... Evans was the target 137 times in '06 catching 59.9% of them. As the #2 in '05 he caught 52.2% of 92 targets.

[Philagape]

Generally, the higher you are on the WR depth chart, the more attention the defense pays you and better defenders cover you, so I would expect third WRs to have high catch percentages. Their job is easier.

[patmoran2006]

Being an "Asset" at WR is about production.. and how can a guy that NEVER had more than 4 catches in a game this season be a solid "asset" to this team.

Josh Reed is who he is. A hard working, sometimes productive backup WR who gives you an occasional spark.

[Mr. Pink]

Josh Reed is a guy who'd be lucky to be a number 4 WR on at least 20 other NFL teams. But here he's in competition for the number 2 slot. I feel sorry for JP and his lack of weapons outside Lee Evans in the passing game.

[henrybacker]

How do the Reed supporters feel about the contract Marv gave him?

[justasportsfan]

Josh Reed is a guy who'd be lucky to be a number 4 WR on at least 20 other NFL teams. .

:coocoo:

[raphael120]

How do the Reed supporters feel about the contract Marv gave him?

Marv didnt have a proper nap before that decision. :smile: