Sounding good on the McCargo front

[Yasgur's Farm]

McCargo should be back for camp (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/05/24/bills.mccargo.ap/index.html)


ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. (AP) -- Bills head coach Dick Jauron isn't worried about defensive tackle John McCargo's recovery from a broken left foot and says the former first-round pick should be ready when training camp opens at the end of July.

[Pinkerton Security]

:rockout:
McCargo should be back for camp (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/05/24/bills.mccargo.ap/index.html)

[Night Train]

But he's already been declared a bust. Someone, quick forward him the memo. Give up. [/sarcasm]

[Jan Reimers]

More great news. If this keeps up, the negmeisters are going to have a tough day trying to bring the rest of us down.

[patmoran2006]

Like I said a couple of days ago, he's the second most important player on the team... Good

[OpIv37]

Jauron also said the other day that he's "not a doctor".

And one of the biggest reasons why players supposedly make the big jump between year one and year two is a full off-season to condition. Well, McCargo's conditioning is limited by his injury.

[OpIv37]

But he's already been declared a bust. Someone, quick forward him the memo. Give up. [/sarcasm]

I never said that he was a bust, but if you're not at least a little concerned by the fact that he's been injured two consecutive seasons and is missing valuable conditioning time, then you're just being naive.

[Jan Reimers]

C'mon, Op, cheer up. Come out of the dark side and join us naive homers.

[mysticsoto]

Jauron also said the other day that he's "not a doctor".

And one of the biggest reasons why players supposedly make the big jump between year one and year two is a full off-season to condition. Well, McCargo's conditioning is limited by his injury.

Here we go with negativity again. Why don't you look and mention the positive also before trying to find something negative to lock on to:

McCargo has been able to work out his upper body all offseason. He’s noticeably thicker in the shoulders and chest than he was as a rookie.

“I’ve been getting a lot stronger,” McCargo said. “All I’ve been doing is lifting weights and working out. It’s not just about trying to lift 225 pounds like after college last year. It’s about playing stronger. . . . We have machines here that isolate each arm. In college we didn’t have machines like that. We do a lot more to get your core [torso] stronger. We do a lot to improve flexibility. In college we didn’t do nearly as much of that.”

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/billsnfl/story/82238.html

[patmoran2006]

The Bills NEED him to be in the lineup AND be the player they expected him to be..

Its the only way the front four will show any real improvement.

[justasportsfan]

What's he suppose to say " I'm worried especially since he barely got his feet wet. We're drafting another DT next year" ?

Damnit, damn beans.

[OpIv37]

Here we go with negativity again. Why don't you look and mention the positive also before trying to find something negative to lock on to:

McCargo has been able to work out his upper body all offseason. He’s noticeably thicker in the shoulders and chest than he was as a rookie.

“I’ve been getting a lot stronger,” McCargo said. “All I’ve been doing is lifting weights and working out. It’s not just about trying to lift 225 pounds like after college last year. It’s about playing stronger. . . . We have machines here that isolate each arm. In college we didn’t have machines like that. We do a lot more to get your core [torso] stronger. We do a lot to improve flexibility. In college we didn’t do nearly as much of that.”

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/billsnfl/story/82238.html

yeah, DT's ONLY use their arms- they don't need leg strength to get through blockers or avoid being pushed back :rolleyes:

His conditioning is limited, just like I said.

[Goobylal]

There are other ways to get conditioned, like swimming. What he'll be lacking mostly is the practices.

[ublinkwescore]

yeah, DT's ONLY use their arms- they don't need leg strength to get through blockers or avoid being pushed back :rolleyes:

His conditioning is limited, just like I said.

If you can go one day with out whining - (you have to be on here for that day mind you) - I will give you all my ZBs.

I bet you can't do it.

[mysticsoto]

yeah, DT's ONLY use their arms- they don't need leg strength to get through blockers or avoid being pushed back :rolleyes:

His conditioning is limited, just like I said.

<sigh>

This is Op when he hears good news about the Bills or a Bills player:

http://www.hellblazer.com/media/i-cant-hear-you.jpg

[SquishDaFish]

I bet if we get to the SB he will find soemthing wrong with the team still!

[justasportsfan]

Jauron also said the other day that he's "not a doctor".
.
Neither was the guy who checked both Brees' and Culpeppers injruies for the fins. I'll take Dicks expertice in the matter .

[OpIv37]

<sigh>

This is Op when he hears good news about the Bills or a Bills player:

http://www.hellblazer.com/media/i-cant-hear-you.jpg

You guys are putting a lot of hope in a player who's only played in five games, didn't look all that great in those 5 games, has had the same injury two years in a row and is missing conditioning/practice time.

Yet, you're trying to make ME look ridiculous? Please. You can drink OBD's Kool-Aid or you can look at the situation realistically.

[mysticsoto]

You guys are putting a lot of hope in a player who's only played in five games, didn't look all that great in those 5 games, has had the same injury two years in a row and is missing conditioning/practice time.

Yet, you're trying to make ME look ridiculous? Please. You can drink OBD's Kool-Aid or you can look at the situation realistically.

Once again, you are misreading me. I am putting no hope. Nor am I putting pessimism (unlike you). My original, current and continual stance will always be to wait and let's see what product is on the field come game time. I mean...don't you feel a little ridiculous crying wolf at a point when TC hasn't even started???

[patmoran2006]

I'm putting a ton of hope in him..

Because our DL will suck again unless he comes a really solid player this year

[OpIv37]

Once again, you are misreading me. I am putting no hope. Nor am I putting pessimism (unlike you). My original, current and continual stance will always be to wait and let's see what product is on the field come game time. I mean...don't you feel a little ridiculous crying wolf at a point when TC hasn't even started???

No, not at all.

This forum is for discussing the Bills. TC and games haven't started yet. So, let's discuss how we think they're going to do based on the information we have.

Based on McCargo's injury and previous performance, it seems highly unlikely that he will do well this year. I could be wrong about that- we won't know until the game starts. But right now, on paper, it looks pretty bad.

So, we can either talk about that, or we can talk about nothing because we have to "wait and see" what actually happens.

[justasportsfan]

My original, current and continual stance will always be to wait and let's see what product is on the field come game time. I mean...don't you feel a little ridiculous crying wolf at a point when TC hasn't even started???


O cmon. Anyone knows 1 year is enough time to judge an FO or player.

[mysticsoto]

No, not at all.

This forum is for discussing the Bills. TC and games haven't started yet. So, let's discuss how we think they're going to do based on the information we have.

Based on McCargo's injury and previous performance, it seems highly unlikely that he will do well this year. I could be wrong about that- we won't know until the game starts. But right now, on paper, it looks pretty bad.

So, we can either talk about that, or we can talk about nothing because we have to "wait and see" what actually happens.

Fine...then let's also talk about his strength improvement and how his shoulders and arms are NOTICEABLY bigger. Do you think that's minor??? You need to be strong in order to shed blockers and strength is something our DTs have been seemingly lacking. If McCargo develops the strength to be able to take on the 3 gap and shed blockers - forcing a double team, the entire DL will be much improved.

You see, when you use ALL the information you have available - instead of just locking on to one negative thing, a different picture can emerge.

[OpIv37]

Fine...then let's also talk about his strength improvement and how his shoulders and arms are NOTICEABLY bigger. Do you think that's minor??? You need to be strong in order to shed blockers and strength is something our DTs have been seemingly lacking. If McCargo develops the strength to be able to take on the 3 gap and shed blockers - forcing a double team, the entire DL will be much improved.

You see, when you use ALL the information you have available - instead of just locking on to one negative thing, a different picture can emerge.

However, it's irrelevant if he's not on the field and irrelevant if his legs aren't strong enough. In this case, the negative has a good chance of completely or at least partially counteracting the positive. So, I'm going to "wait and see" if McCargo can actually be on the field and has enough leg strength before I start getting my hopes up for the guy.

[OpIv37]

O cmon. Anyone knows 1 year is enough time to judge an FO or player.

You know, we keep hearing about how the biggest jump is between year 1 and year 2 (funny how you don't accuse people of whining when they repeat that ad nauseum).

Well, the main reasons for that are on the field experience and off the field conditioning. McCargo has had both limited by his injury, yet people are still expecting him to make the jump.

Just for once, try to look at the ENTIRE situation instead of taking one example of a 2nd year player improving and applying it universally to every situation.

[mysticsoto]

However, it's irrelevant if he's not on the field and irrelevant if his legs aren't strong enough. In this case, the negative has a good chance of completely or at least partially counteracting the positive. So, I'm going to "wait and see" if McCargo can actually be on the field and has enough leg strength before I start getting my hopes up for the guy.

There has been no indication mentioned from any doctor or otherwise that he will not be ready come season time. In fact, it has been stated that he will be ready come TC - which is what we need. OTAs are nice, but I would guess that they help the offense more than the defense since the defense can't actually hit and pound - which is what they do. You do get to work on alignments and cover schemes, as well as terminology, but this isn't McCargo's 1st year, so I'm not as worried about those things. Come TC time where level of intensity starts to rise, that's when I want to make sure he is in and see at what level he can perform.

Nevertheless, it should atleast register with you that McCargo is not just sitting home with his foot up watching TV. Clearly he is working hard at improving himself and given that he can't use his feet, he's doing the next best thing and improving his hands/strength as well as flexibility. Can't you atleast give him credit for that? He is using his time constructively to better himself in other areas until he heals. I find that commendable!!!

[justasportsfan]

You know, we keep hearing about how the biggest jump is between year 1 and year 2 (funny how you don't accuse people of whining when they repeat that ad nauseum).

Well, the main reasons for that are on the field experience and off the field conditioning. McCargo has had both limited by his injury, yet people are still expecting him to make the jump. .

Yeah people are expecting to make a jump while you almost expect every move to fail. Ad naseum? Jauron is a straight shooter. If he says he's optimistic about McCargo then I believe he's sincere. You on the other hand automatically doubt everyone BUT YOUR OWN OPINIONs.



Just for once, try to look at the ENTIRE situation instead of taking one example of a 2nd year player improving and applying it universally to every situation.


Haha! You haven't been reading obviously. I look at everything as a whole. I like what the FO has done as a whole and where they have directed the team. You're the one who nitpicks on the negative and talk like it's the sky is falling.

[OpIv37]

There has been no indication mentioned from any doctor or otherwise that he will not be ready come season time. In fact, it has been stated that he will be ready come TC - which is what we need. OTAs are nice, but I would guess that they help the offense more than the defense since the defense can't actually hit and pound - which is what they do. You do get to work on alignments and cover schemes, as well as terminology, but this isn't McCargo's 1st year, so I'm not as worried about those things. Come TC time where level of intensity starts to rise, that's when I want to make sure he is in and see at what level he can perform.

Nevertheless, it should atleast register with you that McCargo is not just sitting home with his foot up watching TV. Clearly he is working hard at improving himself and given that he can't use his feet, he's doing the next best thing and improving his hands/strength as well as flexibility. Can't you atleast give him credit for that? He is using his time constructively to better himself in other areas until he heals. I find that commendable!!!

Sure I can give him credit for working hard and doing what he can. But we have to wait and see if that will actually have results on the field- right now, it seems unlikely.

[justasportsfan]

But we have to wait and see if that will actually have results on the field- . see your Wire comment on the other thread. :up:

[OpIv37]

Yeah people are expecting to make a jump while you almost expect every move to fail. Ad naseum? Jauron is a straight shooter. If he says he's optimistic about McCargo then I believe he's sincere. You on the other hand automatically doubt everyone BUT YOUR OWN OPINIONs.



I was referring to other posters who repeat that endlessly as a reason why the D will be better, not to Jauron. I'm not denying that what I say is my opinion, but there is plenty of information used for the basis of those opinions.



Haha! You haven't been reading obviously. I look at everything as a whole. I like what the FO has done as a whole and where they have directed the team. You're the one who nitpicks on the negative and talk like it's the sky is falling.

You take the "view from 10,000 feet" approach and say you like the overall direction of the team. But when it comes to specific players and positions, you never take all the variables into account.

[justasportsfan]

You take the "view from 10,000 feet" approach and say you like the overall direction of the team. But when it comes to specific players and positions, you never take all the variables into account.

because in the end it's all about the TEAM improvement. So far so good from 10,000 feet. Now if you excuse me, I'm going to work on my mile high membership. :naughty:

[G. Host]

<sigh>

This is Op when he hears good news about the Bills or a Bills player:

http://www.hellblazer.com/media/i-cant-hear-you.jpg

That is not true. He hears good news (and good news only) about Losman but I think that is because his wife likes him.
</sigh>

[OpIv37]

That is not true. He hears good news (and good news only) about Losman but I think that is because his wife likes him.
</sigh>

obviously you missed my post the other day about Losman's OTA performance that caused half the board to overreact. Or my numerous posts criticizing him early last season. Or my post after the Ravens game wondering if he was reverting back to bad habits.

I'll admit that I want to see Losman do well, but I'm not afraid to call him out if he plays poorly.

[Yasgur's Farm]

The past is interesting indeed.

[OpIv37]

The past is interesting indeed.

if 5 games is too few to call him a bust, 8 games is too few to say he's good.

Maybe I was wrong, but it's still too soon to know for sure.

[Yasgur's Farm]

It's not personal OP... Justapastblast.

[Goobylal]

if 5 games is too few to call him a bust, 8 games is too few to say he's good.

Maybe I was wrong, but it's still too soon to know for sure.
It isn't too early. You were wrong.

Just like you were with JD and the losses of Clements, Fletcher, Spikes, and Walker.

I can't remember what you said about McGahee.

[OpIv37]

It isn't too early. You were wrong.

Just like you were with JD and the losses of Clements, Fletcher, Spikes, and Walker.

I can't remember what you said about McGahee.

I said McGahee could be easily replaced.

I wasn't wrong about Fletcher or Walker- Fletch is tearing it up in DC and Walker is much better than Tripplett- Trips is the new Tim Anderson. The only argument about Fletcher is the value- he's better than DiGiorgio but DiG has been good enough that it wouldn't be worth Fletch's cap hit.

Our corners have been much better than anticipated, that is true.

And regardless of what you say, it's too early to say if I was right or wrong overall. McCargo has improved every game- I've said that numerous times. But that just proves that the lack of conditioning hurt him and he wasn't ready when the season started. What happened? We dug ourselves in an 0-3 hole. Was that all McCargo's fault? Of course not- I'd say it was on the coaches more than the players. But remember- the D had trouble getting off the field and stopping the run in those games. If McCargo had been ready to go, it's possible that wouldn't have been the case and things might have turned out differently (particularly the Denver game, which was so close that one play could have made the game).

So, the lack of conditioning and lost playing time did hurt him, just like I said.

oh, and he's made it a personal record 8 games without an injury. I hope I'm wrong and that streak holds up, but half a season is hardly enough to say he's past his injury problems.

[TigerJ]

I would not debate that Fletcher is having a good year in Washington. The question I have though is what difference the defenisve system makes. Gregg Williams coaches a completely different defensive schem from the one the Bills are using now. One could assume, I think that had Fletcher stayed his play would have been much like last year: lots of tackles, some turnovers in the passing game, but he would struggle making tackles in the running game at the line. Buffalo's run defense has really tightened up in the last four games. Who can really say whether or not the adjustments Fewel has made would have worked with Fletcher?

[Goobylal]

What Fletcher is doing with Washington is immaterial. The Bills' defense is playing better than it has since the Pat Williams days. Fletcher's age and salary made him a good non-re-sign, while Spikes, Walker, and Clements have shown to be underperforming their contracts.

As for McCargo Op, we get it. You thought it was a reach because of what everyone else said, and McCargo getting injured validated that. So now it's a "when will he get injured again" watch. Will you do the same for Poz, who couldn't even make it more than 3 games?

And yes McCargo's conditioning MIGHT have been a problem. But that was because of his foot, the one that wasn't repaired correctly in college.

[mysticsoto]

What Fletcher is doing with Washington is immaterial. The Bills' defense is playing better than it has since the Pat Williams days. Fletcher's age and salary made him a good non-re-sign, while Spikes, Walker, and Clements have shown to be underperforming their contracts.

As for McCargo Op, we get it. You thought it was a reach because of what everyone else said, and McCargo getting injured validated that. So now it's a "when will he get injured again" watch. Will you do the same for Poz, who couldn't even make it more than 3 games?

And yes McCargo's conditioning MIGHT have been a problem. But that was because of his foot, the one that wasn't repaired correctly in college.
Exactly. And the overall point that should be made is that Op was being overly critical and jumping to conclusions much like he did when he thought JP would be out for the season. Not only that, but he said the 3rd rd QB pick was a horrible wasted pick, our CBs suck big time, DiGiorgio sucked and that the coaches were blowing smoke up our asses to say that DiG looked good, that this being the 2nd year in our new defensive scheme wasn't going to really make a difference, McCargo was a complete bust...I could go on but...Op...are you getting my point? You overreact to things and try and take the most negative outlook on anything you hear!!! Are you starting to realize maybe you should sometimes take a wait and see approach and some of us were advocating?

[OpIv37]

What Fletcher is doing with Washington is immaterial. The Bills' defense is playing better than it has since the Pat Williams days. Fletcher's age and salary made him a good non-re-sign, while Spikes, Walker, and Clements have shown to be underperforming their contracts.

As for McCargo Op, we get it. You thought it was a reach because of what everyone else said, and McCargo getting injured validated that. So now it's a "when will he get injured again" watch. Will you do the same for Poz, who couldn't even make it more than 3 games?

And yes McCargo's conditioning MIGHT have been a problem. But that was because of his foot, the one that wasn't repaired correctly in college.

Poz's injury was a freak injury that occurred ONCE- not the SAME injury that recurred TWICE in TWO YEARS and cost McCargo not just two seasons but an entire off season including mini-camps.

No parallel there whatsoever.

And clearly, when the season started, McCargo wasn't ready. It affected him.

And as far as Fletcher- why is it that the rest of the D seems to have benefitted from a year in the system, but Fletcher wouldn't have? You guys are idiots for believing that DiG could fill in for Fletcher without any proof.

[OpIv37]

Exactly. And the overall point that should be made is that Op was being overly critical and jumping to conclusions much like he did when he thought JP would be out for the season. Not only that, but he said the 3rd rd QB pick was a horrible wasted pick, our CBs suck big time, DiGiorgio sucked and that the coaches were blowing smoke up our asses to say that DiG looked good, that this being the 2nd year in our new defensive scheme wasn't going to really make a difference, McCargo was a complete bust...I could go on but...Op...are you getting my point? You overreact to things and try and take the most negative outlook on anything you hear!!! Are you starting to realize maybe you should sometimes take a wait and see approach and some of us were advocating?

You guys are absolutely insane to have expected big things from a guy in McCargo's situation. It worked out this time but that's not the norm. There were PLENTY of reasons to be concerned about McCargo and clearly they affected him.

As far as the CB's, I was wrong, but almost everyone agreed with me on that so I'm not the only one who should be criticized for that.

If DiGiorgio didn't suck, the coaches would have said the exact same thing.

You don't think Holcomb could have done what Edwards did? Yeah, I was wrong about Edwards not being able to help this year but clearly there are other positions of need on this team and it's debatable whether or not we could have used that pick for another position. For example, we're down to three receivers and two TE's for this weekend's game.

And as far as JP, I have no idea what you're talking about. I never thought JP was out for the season.

[alohabillsfan]

You guys are absolutely insane to have expected big things from a guy in McCargo's situation. It worked out this time but that's not the norm. There were PLENTY of reasons to be concerned about McCargo and clearly they affected him.

As far as the CB's, I was wrong, but almost everyone agreed with me on that so I'm not the only one who should be criticized for that.

If DiGiorgio didn't suck, the coaches would have said the exact same thing.

You don't think Holcomb could have done what Edwards did? Yeah, I was wrong about Edwards not being able to help this year but clearly there are other positions of need on this team and it's debatable whether or not we could have used that pick for another position. For example, we're down to three receivers and two TE's for this weekend's game.




So let me get this straight,
You were wrong on McCargo:check:
You admit you were wrong on the CB's:check:
You admit you were wrong on Trent Edwards:check:

Maybe, just Maybe, the FO and Coaching staff know what they are doing! :check:

[OpIv37]

So let me get this straight,
You were wrong on McCargo:check:
You admit you were wrong on the CB's:check:
You admit you were wrong on Trent Edwards:check:

Maybe, just Maybe, the FO and Coaching staff know what they are doing! :check:

I wasn't wrong about McCargo. It's too early to tell about his injury problems and his lack of conditioning clearly affected him early in the season.

If you watch the games and the calls that are made, clearly the coaching staff DOESN'T know what they're doing. Seriously, we win 4 games against weak teams and everyone forgets a year and a half of futility. You guys have such short term memories- everyone around here is only as good or as bad as the last game. It's pathetic.

[mysticsoto]

You guys are absolutely insane to have expected big things from a guy in McCargo's situation. It worked out this time but that's not the norm. There were PLENTY of reasons to be concerned about McCargo and clearly they affected him.

As far as the CB's, I was wrong, but almost everyone agreed with me on that so I'm not the only one who should be criticized for that.

If DiGiorgio didn't suck, the coaches would have said the exact same thing.

You don't think Holcomb could have done what Edwards did? Yeah, I was wrong about Edwards not being able to help this year but clearly there are other positions of need on this team and it's debatable whether or not we could have used that pick for another position. For example, we're down to three receivers and two TE's for this weekend's game.

Talk about false pride...

People were expecting what they should have expected - improvement on the Dline with McCargo.

Nobody was as panicky as you were about the CBs. And we kept telling you that we don't need superstars at CB in a cover 2 and you kept blowing that piece of info off..

DiG didn't suck, period! Time for you to man up and admit it, even though you kept emphasizing that he did suck.

Edwards clearly helped us out a great deal and for some, he's already ready to take the helm. To say we could have used him for this and that...b'cse we are down here or there...there's no way to determine that back in April - so that kind of talk is pointless. You said he was a waste of a pick and that he would just be a clipboard holder that did nothing and contributed nothing to our team...Once again...man up and admit when you're wrong!!!

[OpIv37]

Talk about false pride...

People were expecting what they should have expected - improvement on the Dline with McCargo.

Nobody was as panicky as you were about the CBs. And we kept telling you that we don't need superstars at CB in a cover 2 and you kept blowing that piece of info off..

DiG didn't suck, period! Time for you to man up and admit it, even though you kept emphasizing that he did suck.

Edwards clearly helped us out a great deal and for some, he's already ready to take the helm. To say we could have used him for this and that...b'cse we are down here or there...there's no way to determine that back in April - so that kind of talk is pointless. You said he was a waste of a pick and that he would just be a clipboard holder that did nothing and contributed nothing to our team...Once again...man up and admit when you're wrong!!!

I wasn't wrong about McCargo.

I already said I was wrong about the CB's. I was wrong about DiG but the coaches would have said the same thing if DiG was worse than Haggan.

I stand by my comments on Edwards- he did contribute but that doesn't mean someone else selected in the same spot wouldn't have contributed more.

I still say you guys are nuts for getting all excited about this bunch of no-names in the off season, although at this point it seems as though the off-season wasn't as bad as it looked on paper when the season started.

Don't forget, though... we have 4 wins over 3 weak teams. And I know- the goal is to win and this isn't college- we have to play who the NFL says we play. Wins over weak teams are still wins. But to get all excited and think this team is going to beat NE or go to the playoffs because we beat the Jets, Bengals and Ravens is just ridiculous. Maybe I overreact on the negative stuff too often, but everyone here is doing the exact opposite with the positive stuff.

[mysticsoto]

I wasn't wrong about McCargo.
Has the Dline improved since last year or not? Where do we stand on our run D compared to last year?



I already said I was wrong about the CB's. I was wrong about DiG but the coaches would have said the same thing if DiG was worse than Haggan.
That's all you need to keep saying...



I stand by my comments on Edwards- he did contribute but that doesn't mean someone else selected in the same spot wouldn't have contributed more.

How do you know we couldn't have gotten someone that would have been more productive than Lynch or Whitner last year? Or when we took JP? What's the point of this line of thinking???



I still say you guys are nuts for getting all excited about this bunch of no-names in the off season, although at this point it seems as though the off-season wasn't as bad as it looked on paper when the season started.
We didn't get excited. Most of us took a wait and see approach. And when they started playing well and showing it in TC, we reported it, but people like you chose to ignore what was said by us and by the coaches who are apparently only blowing smoke up our asses...



Don't forget, though... we have 4 wins over 3 weak teams. And I know- the goal is to win and this isn't college- we have to play who the NFL says we play. Wins over weak teams are still wins. But to get all excited and think this team is going to beat NE or go to the playoffs because we beat the Jets, Bengals and Ravens is just ridiculous. Maybe I overreact on the negative stuff too often, but everyone here is doing the exact opposite with the positive stuff.
Don't forget that we have 4 wins and that if not for bad coaching decisions, we could just as easily have 6 wins!!! This thread is not about those few who overreact and think we are going to beat NE or other crap...this thread is about all that you were wrong about in the offseason, all the negative comments you made on the players and the teams before you had even seen them...this thread is now about you manning up and admitting so. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Talk0fNewYork]

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[OpIv37]

The thread is called "LOOKING GOOD on the McCargo Front" - thats not exactly "wait and see".

"Wait and see" is just an excuse for people who are afraid to be wrong. And why is it that when I criticized people for playing poorly in camp, everyone says "it's just camp, wait til preseason", but somehow it's okay to judge players on quality play in pre-season? That's hypocritical. Either TC play is a good indicator or it's not- but it can't be a good indicator if a player plays well and irrelevant if a player plays poorly. Make up your mind.

I admitted I was wrong on what I was wrong about. And I was wrong SO FAR- remember, the season's only half over and we still have plenty of good teams to play.

[mysticsoto]

The thread is called "LOOKING GOOD on the McCargo Front" - thats not exactly "wait and see".

"Wait and see" is just an excuse for people who are afraid to be wrong. And why is it that when I criticized people for playing poorly in camp, everyone says "it's just camp, wait til preseason", but somehow it's okay to judge players on quality play in pre-season? That's hypocritical. Either TC play is a good indicator or it's not- but it can't be a good indicator if a player plays well and irrelevant if a player plays poorly. Make up your mind.

I admitted I was wrong on what I was wrong about. And I was wrong SO FAR- remember, the season's only half over and we still have plenty of good teams to play.

Perhaps it might be a shorter list to post what you were "right" about...maybe you can list something... I can't think of anything at the moment.

[colin]

lolz.

i disagree that trips is so bad this year. we ain't paying him much and our run D and over all D have taken a big turn for the better. IMO that means he is at least doing his job OK as he is in for a lot of snaps for us.

i'd say he's played at least as well as walker in chicago, and that's a big positive suprise for me.

[djjimkelly]

i agree with OP about the coaches while our team seems to be very prepared and hats off to jauron for that.


MANY game day decision with play calling have been suspect. fewell has been much better in fact hes been good since the dallas game . but i still dont trust fairchild to call a solid game!

[OpIv37]

Perhaps it might be a shorter list to post what you were "right" about...maybe you can list something... I can't think of anything at the moment.

I was right about McGahee being easily replaced.

I was right about our receivers other than Evans sucking.

I was right about our coaches being idiots- even you admitted they cost us 2 wins.

[OpIv37]

lolz.

i disagree that trips is so bad this year. we ain't paying him much and our run D and over all D have taken a big turn for the better. IMO that means he is at least doing his job OK as he is in for a lot of snaps for us.

i'd say he's played at least as well as walker in chicago, and that's a big positive suprise for me.

Completely disagree on Trips. He's easily neutralized on running plays and most of the improvement on the DL has been because of McCargo and Williams. Also, the D struggled to get off the field in the first few games. Once Hargrove came back, he started getting more snaps at DT (meaning less for Tripplett) and that's when the run D improved. Our best game of the season against the run was against Cincy, and Denney played in that game- Hargrove took most of his snaps at DT.

Tripplett made about 2 plays this season, which sadly equals his total for this year. The guy's awful. He makes like twice as much as Hargrove, which is just sad because Hargrove is more versatile and just plain better.

[mysticsoto]

I was right about McGahee being easily replaced.

I was right about our receivers other than Evans sucking.

I was right about our coaches being idiots- even you admitted they cost us 2 wins.

You were apparently right on the "extremely obvious things".

Reed has played okay as 3rd WR, but we clearly don't have a 2nd WR...

Coaches plan well before the game, but don't make good adjustments during the game or make good calls although Fewell appears to be improving in that facet (as something mentioned above). Fairchild is leaving alot to be desired...

[justasportsfan]

You guys are idiots for believing that DiG could fill in for Fletcher without any proof.
you mean we were idiots for thinking that the coaches had some plan in place and we'd rather wait and see instead of taking your word?

[justasportsfan]

I was right about our receivers other than Evans sucking.

I was right about our coaches being idiots- even you admitted they cost us 2 wins.
So we're back to Reed sucking again?Are you flipflopping?

[OpIv37]

you mean we were idiots for thinking that the coaches had some plan in place and we'd rather wait and see instead of taking your word?

yes- what have these coaches done to prove themselves? Cost us two games, poor clock management, poor play calling, sketchy records before coming here.... fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice.... I'm not going to believe anything until they prove it.

[OpIv37]

So we're back to Reed sucking again?Are you flipflopping?

how many passing TD's do our receivers have? I think it's like 2 or 3 through 8 games. Enough said.

[justasportsfan]

"Wait and see" is just an excuse for people who are afraid to be wrong. .
Maybe we just don't like to pretend we know better than everyone esle .

[justasportsfan]

yes- what have these coaches done to prove themselves? .
You have lost both bets we've made and look like you're losing the 3rd one ,I don't think you should be calling us idiots.

[OpIv37]

You have lost both bets we've made and look like your losing the 3rd one ,I don't think you should be calling us idiots.

the 3rd bet was on the Patriots game right?

No way I'm losing that one- that's as close to a slam dunk as it gets.

[justasportsfan]

the 3rd bet was on the Patriots game right?

No way I'm losing that one- that's as close to a slam dunk as it gets.


NO the 3rd bet is total yards at the end of the season vs. last year. 10,000 zbs.

That Pats game is a sucker bet that you should not get any credit for if you're right. It was me letting you off the hook from the sig you're wearing now.

[justasportsfan]

I was right about our receivers other than Evans sucking.

.

I've been harsh on a lot of players over the last few years, most of whom deserve it. But after this season, I think there are 3 that don't fully deserve the bashing I gave them:

Josh Reed
Robert Royal
Coy Wire

No doubt these guys have underperformed in the past, but they've also shown flashes where they've been really effective. The problem isn't the players- it's the coaches. These guys are all role players who can be effective in the right role, but our idiot coaches don't realize that.

Reed is a solid #3 possession receiver, but several Bills coaching staffs have tried to use him as a #2.

Wire is a solid ST'er and backup linebacker, but our coaches were trying to use him at safety.

Royal is a good situational receiving threat and a decent downfield blocker, but Fairchild can't seem to figure out how to use TE's in the passing game (today being the exception, of course).

So, I mistakenly blamed the players when I should have been blaming the coaches. The players are responsible for their own performance, but the coaches are responsible for putting them in the right position to perform.

[OpIv37]

And what's your point? Do you think our receivers are good enough? Do you not see that part of the offense's problem is that the receivers aren't getting open?

So Reed's not bad as a #3. We still have no #2 to take pressure off Evans and it's hurt his numbers. Just like I said.

[justasportsfan]

And what's your point? Do you think our receivers are good enough? Do you not see that part of the offense's problem is that the receivers aren't getting open?

So Reed's not bad as a #3. We still have no #2 to take pressure off Evans and it's hurt his numbers. Just like I said.
my point is, you're flipflopping your opinion because it's starting to look like we idiots are right.

NO our recievers aren't great but neither Parrish nor Reed suck like you say they do....until you change your mind.

[OpIv37]

my point is, you're flipflopping your opinion because it's starting to look like we idiots are right.

What did I flip flop? Being wrong isn't flip flopping- I don't know why you can't understand that. If I keep saying Reed sucks, you rip on me and say I'm wrong. If I say I was wrong and Reed doesn't suck, then you accuse me of flip-flopping. What the hell do you want from me?

On top of that, I said we don't have a #2 to take the pressure off of Evans. And we don't. Whether or not Reed sucks as a #3 doesn't change the fact that he's not good enough to be a #2. I was absolutely right that we don't have a #2 to take pressure off Evans and I never waivered from that stance. You just don't want to give me credit for it so you invent some semantic argument about Reed.

[justasportsfan]

What did I flip flop? Being wrong isn't flip flopping- I don't know why you can't understand that. If I keep saying Reed sucks, you rip on me and say I'm wrong. If I say I was wrong and Reed doesn't suck, then you accuse me of flip-flopping. What the hell do you want from me?

On top of that, I said we don't have a #2 to take the pressure off of Evans. And we don't. Whether or not Reed sucks as a #3 doesn't change the fact that he's not good enough to be a #2. I was absolutely right that we don't have a #2 to take pressure off Evans and I never waivered from that stance. You just don't want to give me credit for it so you invent some semantic argument about Reed.
you flipflop about your opinion of reed . first he sucks, then he doesn't, now he sucks again .....

[OpIv37]

you flipflop about your opinion of reed . first he sucks, then he doesn't, now he sucks again .....

I didn't say Reed sucks again. I said our receivers as a group suck and the numbers support that conclusion.

[justasportsfan]

I didn't say Reed sucks again. I said our receivers as a group suck and the numbers support that conclusion.

I was right about McGahee being easily replaced.

I was right about our receivers other than Evans sucking.

I was right about our coaches being idiots- even you admitted they cost us 2 wins.


you need to clarify that next time especially when you are talking to idiots.

[OpIv37]

you need to clarify that next time especially when you are talking to idiots.

you're right- I worded that poorly.

What I meant was that as a group our receivers are not performing and we don't have a true #2.

[justasportsfan]

you're right- .
I know...... :bravo:








jk

[Goobylal]

Poz's injury was a freak injury that occurred ONCE- not the SAME injury that recurred TWICE in TWO YEARS and cost McCargo not just two seasons but an entire off season including mini-camps.

No parallel there whatsoever.
True. The real injury to watch is the PCL injury he suffered in college. I guess we won't be able to say that Poz was a good pick until he's proven he WON'T get injured like that again.

And clearly, when the season started, McCargo wasn't ready. It affected him.
I disagree. If you want to pin the defense's problems early on on him, then you'd be incredibly wrong. And he's been one of the better playersl from the start. Not to mention it takes DT's usually AT LEAST one full season to start to play well.

And as far as Fletcher- why is it that the rest of the D seems to have benefitted from a year in the system, but Fletcher wouldn't have? You guys are idiots for believing that DiG could fill in for Fletcher without any proof.
Again, given Fletcher's age and salary, getting rid of him was the right move, regardless of whether he would have grasped the Tampa-2 defense or not.

[John Doe]

I wasn't wrong about McCargo.

Unbelieveable.

After some of the things that you posted about McCargo:


If the number of games isn't a factor in the evaluation, then no- I don't expect him to do any better than he did before his injury last year.



<!-- / message -->

[OpIv37]

True. The real injury to watch is the PCL injury he suffered in college. I guess we won't be able to say that Poz was a good pick until he's proven he WON'T get injured like that again.

I disagree. If you want to pin the defense's problems early on on him, then you'd be incredibly wrong. And he's been one of the better playersl from the start. Not to mention it takes DT's usually AT LEAST one full season to start to play well.

Again, given Fletcher's age and salary, getting rid of him was the right move, regardless of whether he would have grasped the Tampa-2 defense or not.

I didn't pin all the defensive problems on McCargo- he was one of many players not performing in the early games. It took him easily 3-4 games to get going. You're seeing what you want to see.

As far as 1 full season- that was my point EXACTLY. He didn't have anywhere close to a full season last year and missed all the off season conditioning. Hence, he wasn't ready when the season started and it showed on the field. All of you who thought the DL was going to be instantly better because of him were wrong- it took time and in that time, we dug ourselves into an 0-3 hole, JUST LIKE I SAID.

I still say you can argue the Fletch move- I like the way DiG was playing but clearly we're short on quality LB's. Hell, we had to bring in Leon Joe, had to play nickel as a base D against the Patriots, and were 24 hours from having Coy Wire starting at MLB (or starting him at WLB and moving Crowell to the inside, which takes our best healthy LB out of position). If we were short on cap space, I'd agree with you more, but we have more than enough unused cap space.

[OpIv37]

Unbelieveable.

After some of the things that you posted about McCargo:





<!-- / message -->

you people are ****ing impossible. He's made it 8 game without an injury and played well in maybe 4-5 of them. And that's enough for you to think I was wrong, yet somehow 5 games was too few to criticize him?

Get ****ing real.

[John Doe]

you people are ****ing impossible. He's made it 8 game without an injury and played well in maybe 4-5 of them. And that's enough for you to think I was wrong, yet somehow 5 games was too few to criticize him?

Get ****ing real.


You stated this:

If the number of games isn't a factor in the evaluation, then no- I don't expect him to do any better than he did before his injury last year.

Obviously, you can't comprehend your own posts or you are in denial.

[Yasgur's Farm]

No need to slam OP on this issue. We all have opinions... Sometimes we're right.

It's not like OP's obnoxious with his opinions like certain other 3rd party speakers around here.

[John Doe]

No need to slam OP on this issue. We all have opinions... Sometimes we're right.

It's not like OP's obnoxious with his opinions like certain other 3rd party speakers around here.

I can't count the times that OP has called called posters names like "insane" and "moronic."

The first time we crossed paths on this board he was incredibly rude.

[Goobylal]

I didn't pin all the defensive problems on McCargo- he was one of many players not performing in the early games. It took him easily 3-4 games to get going. You're seeing what you want to see.
Oh, the irony! McCargo was one of the better players on defense to start the season, and is playing like a stud now. You saw what you wanted to see, i.e. that he was a reach in the 1st, and after 5 games he became injury-prone and you were ready to write-him-off. Yet now after (at least) 5 games of playing well this year, his good play hasn't proven anything because/and we don't know if he'll break his foot again? Are you for real?

As far as 1 full season- that was my point EXACTLY. He didn't have anywhere close to a full season last year and missed all the off season conditioning. Hence, he wasn't ready when the season started and it showed on the field. All of you who thought the DL was going to be instantly better because of him were wrong- it took time and in that time, we dug ourselves into an 0-3 hole, JUST LIKE I SAID.
The Bills were going to be 1-2 at best to start the season, given their opponents. And the game that should have been a win (Broncos) could just as easily be blamed on the offense for failing to score more than 7 points and/or gain a 1st down on their final drive. And again, it took all 11 players on defense to collapse on that final Broncos drive, not just McCargo.

I still say you can argue the Fletch move- I like the way DiG was playing but clearly we're short on quality LB's. Hell, we had to bring in Leon Joe, had to play nickel as a base D against the Patriots, and were 24 hours from having Coy Wire starting at MLB (or starting him at WLB and moving Crowell to the inside, which takes our best healthy LB out of position). If we were short on cap space, I'd agree with you more, but we have more than enough unused cap space.
Fletcher's age (32) and $5M a year deal he got from the Redskins made him a goner. We can argue whether it was a good move to keep him at that age and price just so that depth wouldn't take a hit, but JD has stepped-in seamlessly for Poz (if not played better), and Wire filled-in for JD well last weekend. So I don't believe that the Bills should have kept Fletcher, with an eye towards losing their 3rd and 4th options at MLB.

Besides, a 5-year $5M a year deal for a 32 year old LB who doesn't exactly fit your plans isn't the best use of money, depth or not. Especially on a team still rebuilding. Hence the reason Spikes, a guy who several thought was getting back on track and was only traded to save money, was also let-go.

[STAMPY]

you guys need to get laid. drop it already. why do bills fans always need to prove someone wrong?

[Goobylal]

Thanks STAMPY. I'm going to take your advice tonight, after the kids go to the in-laws for the night.

Then afterwards, or in the morning, I'll see if I'm still in an argumentative mood.

[OpIv37]

Oh, the irony! McCargo was one of the better players on defense to start the season, and is playing like a stud now. You saw what you wanted to see, i.e. that he was a reach in the 1st, and after 5 games he became injury-prone and you were ready to write-him-off. Yet now after (at least) 5 games of playing well this year, his good play hasn't proven anything because/and we don't know if he'll break his foot again? Are you for real?

The Bills were going to be 1-2 at best to start the season, given their opponents. And the game that should have been a win (Broncos) could just as easily be blamed on the offense for failing to score more than 7 points and/or gain a 1st down on their final drive. And again, it took all 11 players on defense to collapse on that final Broncos drive, not just McCargo.

Fletcher's age (32) and $5M a year deal he got from the Redskins made him a goner. We can argue whether it was a good move to keep him at that age and price just so that depth wouldn't take a hit, but JD has stepped-in seamlessly for Poz (if not played better), and Wire filled-in for JD well last weekend. So I don't believe that the Bills should have kept Fletcher, with an eye towards losing their 3rd and 4th options at MLB.

Besides, a 5-year $5M a year deal for a 32 year old LB who doesn't exactly fit your plans isn't the best use of money, depth or not. Especially on a team still rebuilding. Hence the reason Spikes, a guy who several thought was getting back on track and was only traded to save money, was also let-go.

Being one of the better players on D at the start of the season is like winning the special olympics. Clearly, you're seeing what you want to see- McCargo struggled early and is playing better now- the lack of conditioning hurt him and hurt the team as a whole JUST LIKE I SAID.

There is plenty of blame to go around and some goes to McCargo, but again, you're not willing to hold the players you like accountable. No one ever wants to call players out around here- it's just a bunch of lame excuses like "he was one of the better players" on a D that routinely gave up 7+ minute drives. Wow. Impressive. Send that man to the Pro Bowl!

And do you have a crystal ball? How do you know McCargo won't re-injure his foot on the first snap against Miami? How do you know he won't suck for the rest of the year? I get it- you guys can be right after a handful of games because you're saying good things about the team, but I can't be right after a handful of games because I'm saying bad things.

I understand the money issues with the LB's and they'd make more sense if we didn't have tons of cap room. But we do. Re sign some guys and do something with that cap space, and I'll agree that moving Fletch and Spikes were the right moves. Right now, they were just cost cuts that fortunately worked out and saved Ralph some money.