Forked Thread: A Wide Open Offense

[OpIv37]

Forked from: A Wide Open Offense

I just watched the video and all I can say is... "dynamic group of receivers"????



Where was that dynamic bunch last year?(the defense sucks) What excuses do they have?(defense still sucks) Learning a new offense?(D sucks) A struggling and young line?(D sucks and sucks) A QB learning the ropes? (D still sucking) Puhleeze, that's a bunch of horse crap. These receiver suck. (like the D)

P.S. No matter what your opinion is, whether too positive or too negative or just right, if it doesn't agree completely with mine your all a bunch homers, homers. (and the D is still sucking)

I'm forking this thread so the homers can use the original to indulge in their delusions- I don't want to be accused of "raining on the parade".

The receivers we have, outside of Evans, have consistently underperformed. Reed always looks good in pre-season then doesn't show up on Sundays. The facts are that non-contact drills greatly favor the offense, so to believe our receivers or JP have completely come around based on an OTA alone is ridiculous.

Similarly, when JP threw an INT to DiGiorgio and I said something like "I'm leaning towards being nervous about JP" I got trashed for overreacting and was informed that it's "only an OTA and performance doesn't really matter at this point." Well, why is that standard applied to criticisms but not applied to people getting excited?

And you make jokes about the D- well guess what? At some point the D has to take the field. Like FunTimesYay pointed out in the original field, a pass-happy offense either scores quickly or goes three and out by getting in long yardage situations on 3rd down. Even the K-Gun had problems with that at times, and the K-Gun was MUCH better than what we have now. Our D is based around being able to stop the pass- if we have to stop the run, we're in deep ****. The O HAS to be able to play ball control for this D to have any chance at competing.

Do we know for a fact that the D will suck? Of course not- no more than we know for a fact that the offense will do well. But no one has debated that the D is young and inexperienced. They lost three starters. And anyone who actually thinks Youboty or Kiwaukee Thomas will be as good as Nate Clements on Week 1 of 2007 is fooling themselves.

So go ahead and joke about the D and overrate the receivers- you'll be in for a rude awakening come game day.

[Romes]

Re: Forked Thread: A Wide Open Offense

I'll bite...

I actually had a long response but then my computer died on me so i'll sum it up in a few words.

I'll never understand why being negative about the future is viewed as being more realistic.

[patmoran2006]

Re: Forked Thread: A Wide Open Offense

I'll bite...

I actually had a long response but then my computer died on me so i'll sum it up in a few words.

I'll never understand why being negative about the future is viewed as being more realistic.

When one group of fans (Bills) is optimistic, while 31 other groups of fans around the league thinks your team is a joke.. Then being skeptical of them doing anything positive is being more "realistic"

I dont think the Bills are nearly as good as the homers think, and I dont think they are as bad as the "realists" think either. I think they are a 5-6 win team, because of a lack of experience, leadership and lack of talent at DT, CB and WR (other than Evans)--- the right side of the OL is a huge question mark as well.

Maybe next offseason if we pick up a few solid players we'll have a legitimate shot at the playoffs.

[Mr. Pink]

Re: Forked Thread: A Wide Open Offense

I'll bite...

I actually had a long response but then my computer died on me so i'll sum it up in a few words.

I'll never understand why being negative about the future is viewed as being more realistic.

It's not negativity. Read the post and decipher. We need to play to our strengths in order to field a competitive team. Opening up the offense, isn't playing to our strengths and will lead to a LONG season.

If we can play ground control, kill the clock, type of offense...we can win some games and be competitive. We don't have the offensive weapons outside of Lee Evans to be a spread offense. And we sure as hell don't have the defense to lean on when we have 4 to 5, 1-2-3 punt series, while trying to pull off that offense.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Re: Forked Thread: A Wide Open Offense

I agree with Op.

[madness]

Re: Forked Thread: A Wide Open Offense

I could care less what happens in OTA's or the year before until I see what translates on the field this year.

I'm a firm believer in that time and unforeseen occurrences effect everyone. Anything can and will happen come Sunday. The only thing you can do is like a quoted before... "Expect the best, plan for the worst, and prepare to be surprised."

Yes, it is painfully obvious there are holes in certain areas of this team but it doesn't mean that it will always be the team's downfall either. You can only expect to go out and get so much talent to fill those holes but most of the time, not everything can be done in a single season.

I'm not expecting for the Bills to go to the SB or even definitely make the playoffs. I do expect to see improvement because that's what the team strives for. Does it mean it will all end up that way? No, they could possible be worse then .500 or they actually could even make a run into the playoffs. We just know until actually happens.

Yes, the receivers have underperformed but it doesn't mean that they will always under perform. Reed is labeled a bust but he made his share of critical 3rd down catches. Given more opportunities in a spread offense will they step up to the plate? Who knows, but I do know from watching Jauron in Chicago that he has no tolerance for under performing players. If there is somebody on the roster that can do better, trust me, they will get their chance and that player will be replaced.

We can sit back and criticize the D all we want, like you said we don't actually know if they will actually suck. The staff made the changes that they felt necessary to improve our defense. Does that mean there could be a drop off in the beginning of the season. I'd say it's almost certain but I'd rather take that risk instead of an aging veteran defense falling apart at the end of season like we saw so many times in the past few years.

This is the time of year fans are beginning to get hyped for football no matter how good or bad their team is actually going to be. It's getting very frustrating that every time someone starts a positive thread, it ends up getting trashed into oblivion by people who think they know better as they call people who disagree with their POV, homers.

Not to be aimed specifically at you, but the only rude awaking I expect to see is people who think they are always right end up being proved wrong on a continuous basis.

[OpIv37]

Re: Forked Thread: A Wide Open Offense

I'll bite...

I actually had a long response but then my computer died on me so i'll sum it up in a few words.

I'll never understand why being negative about the future is viewed as being more realistic.

um, I'm not really sure why you seem to think that negative outcomes can't be more realistic than positive ones. Not all outcomes have equal probabilities, and as much as we'd like to think otherwise, there are situations where the negative outcomes are much more probable. This is one of them.

[Romes]

Re: Forked Thread: A Wide Open Offense

It's not negativity. Read the post and decipher. We need to play to our strengths in order to field a competitive team. Opening up the offense, isn't playing to our strengths and will lead to a LONG season.

If we can play ground control, kill the clock, type of offense...we can win some games and be competitive. We don't have the offensive weapons outside of Lee Evans to be a spread offense. And we sure as hell don't have the defense to lean on when we have 4 to 5, 1-2-3 punt series, while trying to pull off that offense.

I thought the original post was negative

Like i said, i had a long response but lost it...

I don't think this team is necessarly built for a potent run game. They seemed to have more success when they spread things out last year. You can still control the clock and have long drives by spreading things out. 4-5 WR sets doesn't mean they are gonna be always going for the big play.

[OpIv37]

Re: Forked Thread: A Wide Open Offense

I could care less what happens in OTA's or the year before until I see what translates on the field this year.

I'm a firm believer in that time and unforeseen occurrences effect everyone. Anything can and will happen come Sunday. The only thing you can do is like a quoted before... "Expect the best, plan for the worst, and prepare to be surprised."

Yes, it is painfully obvious there are holes in certain areas of this team but it doesn't mean that it will always be the team's downfall either. You can only expect to go out and get so much talent to fill those holes but most of the time, not everything can be done in a single season.

I'm not expecting for the Bills to go to the SB or even definitely make the playoffs. I do expect to see improvement because that's what the team strives for. Does it mean it will all end up that way? No, they could possible be worse then .500 or they actually could even make a run into the playoffs. We just know until actually happens.

Yes, the receivers have underperformed but it doesn't mean that they will always under perform. Reed is labeled a bust but he made his share of critical 3rd down catches. Given more opportunities in a spread offense will they step up to the plate? Who knows, but I do know from watching Jauron in Chicago that he has no tolerance for under performing players. If there is somebody on the roster that can do better, trust me, they will get their chance and that player will be replaced.

We can sit back and criticize the D all we want, like you said we don't actually know if they will actually suck. The staff made the changes that they felt necessary to improve our defense. Does that mean there could be a drop off in the beginning of the season. I'd say it's almost certain but I'd rather take that risk instead of an aging veteran defense falling apart at the end of season like we saw so many times in the past few years.

This is the time of year fans are beginning to get hyped for football no matter how good or bad their team is actually going to be. It's getting very frustrating that every time someone starts a positive thread, it ends up getting trashed into oblivion by people who think they know better as they call people who disagree with their POV, homers.

Not to be aimed specifically at you, but the only rude awaking I expect to see is people who think they are always right end up being proved wrong on a continuous basis.

see the bolded part- when it comes to LB, this suggests that if the LB's currently on our roster were better than Spikes and Fletch, they would have been playing last year. Well, they weren't playing, so what does that tell you?

Think about some of the things you and justa and others have been saying- if a Fin fan came on this board and said the same things about the Dolphins, we'd all trash them and laugh. Yet, it's ok to say the same stuff about the Bills without being labeled a homer? I think not. Some of us prefer to acknowledge the negative- especially when it's so much stronger than the positive at this point- rather than pretend nothing's wrong so we can get "excited" only to be disappointed later on.

As far as the thread- I forked the thread so you homers can have your fun in the other one.

For me, it gets really frustrating to come on here and see people posting about how great we're gonna be when that's not a realistic assessment. I wish it was, but it's not.

[Devin]

Re: Forked Thread: A Wide Open Offense

Forked from: A Wide Open Offense



I'm forking this thread so the homers can use the original to indulge in their delusions- I don't want to be accused of "raining on the parade".

The receivers we have, outside of Evans, have consistently underperformed. Reed always looks good in pre-season then doesn't show up on Sundays. The facts are that non-contact drills greatly favor the offense, so to believe our receivers or JP have completely come around based on an OTA alone is ridiculous.

Similarly, when JP threw an INT to DiGiorgio and I said something like "I'm leaning towards being nervous about JP" I got trashed for overreacting and was informed that it's "only an OTA and performance doesn't really matter at this point." Well, why is that standard applied to criticisms but not applied to people getting excited?

And you make jokes about the D- well guess what? At some point the D has to take the field. Like FunTimesYay pointed out in the original field, a pass-happy offense either scores quickly or goes three and out by getting in long yardage situations on 3rd down. Even the K-Gun had problems with that at times, and the K-Gun was MUCH better than what we have now. Our D is based around being able to stop the pass- if we have to stop the run, we're in deep ****. The O HAS to be able to play ball control for this D to have any chance at competing.

Do we know for a fact that the D will suck? Of course not- no more than we know for a fact that the offense will do well. But no one has debated that the D is young and inexperienced. They lost three starters. And anyone who actually thinks Youboty or Kiwaukee Thomas will be as good as Nate Clements on Week 1 of 2007 is fooling themselves.

So go ahead and joke about the D and overrate the receivers- you'll be in for a rude awakening come game day.

I dont overrate the WR's at all, I 100% agree that outside of Evans we are in trouble. I think Parrish is good for a good/great play a game simply because of his speed. But apart that I am a little worried.

JP is hit or miss, I was bsolutley thrilled he played the way he did last year. And its just sort of a take the good with the bad type situation. All I can really hope for is that he keeps improving.

Our D....I dont know I just am not that worried. I mean as ive stated before we absolutley are not going to be a top defense, but I kind of compareour D to last years Saints D. Not terrible, and we do JUST enough to keep us in the game. We wont shut many people out but I dont believe we will get caught in to many blowouts.

[patmoran2006]

Re: Forked Thread: A Wide Open Offense

when this team starts winning, then I won't have anything to be negative about.

And if you're going to accuse other people's posts of being dumb, you better come up with responses better than this. It's much easier to accuse my thread of being dumb than it is to address the points, huh? What does that tell you?

Trust me outside of the "its only May" response, that aint going to happen.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Re: Forked Thread: A Wide Open Offense

You know what Op I do agree with you. I am in the process of selling off my Seasons and I don't really plan on watching any of the games. What is the point? There is no hope, why would I even waste my time and money?

[Mr. Pink]

Re: Forked Thread: A Wide Open Offense

I thought the original post was negative

Like i said, i had a long response but lost it...

I don't think this team is necessarly built for a potent run game. They seemed to have more success when they spread things out last year. You can still control the clock and have long drives by spreading things out. 4-5 WR sets doesn't mean they are gonna be always going for the big play.

I'll agree with this, not every play is gonna be designed to go deep. However, remember even back to the Kelly and K-Gun days. We had plenty of 1-2-3 punt series when they were clicking on all cylinders. Difference was, we had a defense who could, on most occasions, rise up to the occasion. We have nothing to base this defense on to even compare it to the early 90s right now.

If you're completing 2/3 passes, which 66% is a high percentage and only gain 9 yards, at most you're running a minute to minute and a half of clock. While that scares me enough, we have the same suspect front four against the run as it is, imagine if we go incomplete, incomplete, incomplete-punt. It does happen. By the time the 4th quarter comes around, and we've done 4-5 1-2-3 pounts, a team is gonna be grinding it out against on the ground. Meanwhile going all the way into the endzone for 6, after chewing 6 minutes or longer off clock.

That's why I think it's extremely vital we need to be a more rush oriented offense, to limit the time our liability, defense obviusly, from being on the field.

If we can on average hold the ball 33 minutes a game, I think we have an outside shot of playoffs. If we're going spread 4 wide sets constantly, we're gonna be playing a lot of catchup and only have TOP of around 25 minutes per game.

Just my opinion on it, basing all the factors involved. It's not a negative outlook, much like what OP first posted to start this thread. It's positive on if we play to keep the defense off the field as much as possible, we'll win. If we're pass happy, we're in trouble.

[patmoran2006]

Re: Forked Thread: A Wide Open Offense

I dont know where ya'll get your theories from.. But look no further than the OFFENSIVE LINE additions we made (Dockery and Walker) and that alone right there is evidence enough that this is going to be the kind of team that wants to POUND THE BALL down a defense's throat. If we were going to be a pass-first kind of team, we wouldnt have signed Dockery and/or Walker, who both struggle in pass protection far more than run blocking. This is assuming of course Marv is stll sane.

To boot, we used TWO of our first four picks on running backs.

So the wide-open offense theories have no merit as far as Im concerned. Its a buckle your chinstraps we're gonig to run the ball and own the clock type fo deal in Buffalo this year (if successful)

[Romes]

Re: Forked Thread: A Wide Open Offense

I'll agree with this, not every play is gonna be designed to go deep. However, remember even back to the Kelly and K-Gun days. We had plenty of 1-2-3 punt series when they were clicking on all cylinders. Difference was, we had a defense who could, on most occasions, rise up to the occasion. We have nothing to base this defense on to even compare it to the early 90s right now.

If you're completing 2/3 passes, which 66% is a high percentage and only gain 9 yards, at most you're running a minute to minute and a half of clock. While that scares me enough, we have the same suspect front four against the run as it is, imagine if we go incomplete, incomplete, incomplete-punt. It does happen. By the time the 4th quarter comes around, and we've done 4-5 1-2-3 pounts, a team is gonna be grinding it out against on the ground. Meanwhile going all the way into the endzone for 6, after chewing 6 minutes or longer off clock.

That's why I think it's extremely vital we need to be a more rush oriented offense, to limit the time our liability, defense obviusly, from being on the field.

If we can on average hold the ball 33 minutes a game, I think we have an outside shot of playoffs. If we're going spread 4 wide sets constantly, we're gonna be playing a lot of catchup and only have TOP of around 25 minutes per game.

Just my opinion on it, basing all the factors involved. It's not a negative outlook, much like what OP first posted to start this thread. It's positive on if we play to keep the defense off the field as much as possible, we'll win. If we're pass happy, we're in trouble.

I agree with this.