Just curious, who was here in the first season that this site began?

[Wys Guy]

Please, don't post if you weren't. I was just curious how many there were and whether they are still here or not. Obviously LOG, Dozer, Jamez, Typ0, etc.

How about a charter member roll call.

[Michael82]

I'm a charter member and proud of it! I am registered Zoner #7.
I was here the day BillsZone was born! :up:

I'm also the number 1 poster! :ontome:

[Mad Bomber]

I joined on July 15, 2002 (the day after Mikey) as the 62nd member of the Zone, so I've been here since the beginning. :up:

[shelby]

i am registered Zoner # 9.

Nice to see you posting Wys!:wave:

[Novacane]

I was here. It was a lot better then.

[The last buffalo fan]

I'm not sure about it, but I do remember getting into this site, before I got my register or membership here. Because the language, it was too complicated to get in here. :ill: BUT, I love this place!!! :dance: Thank you guys for this site :bow:

[ublinkwescore]

does September 02 count?

[ublinkwescore]

I'm not sure about it, but I do remember getting into this site, before I got my register or membership here. Because the language, it was too complicated to get in here. :ill: BUT, I love this place!!! :dance: Thank you guys for this site :bow:

Bad Spanish version 2.0!!!

I missed ya buddy!!

[ublinkwescore]

what # am I?

[jdbillsfan]

I am not sure when it started, but I have been here for a while.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Please, don't post if you weren't. I was just curious how many there were and whether they are still here or not. Obviously LOG, Dozer, Jamez, Typ0, etc.

How about a charter member roll call.
How dare you forget me. The guys you mentioned barely even post!

[JJamezz]

This isn't a prelude to some endless diatribe on the 'homers' expectations for the 2003 season is it? I sense an ulterior motive.. :D

Welcome back though bro.

[THATHURMANATOR]

He said guys that started from the beginning post NO ONE ELSE! If you were here from the beginning you would know. COME ON!!!

[THATHURMANATOR]

This isn't a prelude to some endless diatribe on the 'homers' expectations for the 2003 season is it? I sense an ulterior motive.. :D

Welcome back though bro.
LOL!

[Throne Logic]

I was here pretty dang close to the beginning. A whole bunch of us were getting pretty tired of that other MB at the time. Since the bulk of the poster who actually knew something about football either helped to setup this site or made the jump over to the Zone, I naturally followed along to check it out. Been here ever since, if not 24/7 as some folks seem to be.

[Mad Bomber]

I am not sure when it started, but I have been here for a while.
It began July 13, 2002.

[Devin]

I was here for the first draft does that count! :D

[justasportsfan]

This isn't a prelude to some endless diatribe on the 'homers' expectations for the 2003 season is it? I sense an ulterior motive.. :D

.Nope, but i think I know what it is all about. Quite frankly if it is what I think it is, I can't disagree with wys on this one.

[Philagape]

me

[DraftBoy]

I was here from Day 2 or 3 on...Started under a different name (Winfield_26) but Ive been here since it started.

[wbat27]

I have been a member since 4/26/2003

[BADTHINGSMAN]

Was here since October 02..

[John Doe]

My join date is 07-15-02.

Zone #69.

[Wys Guy]

i am registered Zoner # 9.

Nice to see you posting Wys!:wave:

Thanks!! It's likely temporary, but it's fun to be here, ... sometimes. LOL

I trust that all is well with you in sunny Florida! ;)

[Wys Guy]

does September 02 count?

Of course. Shop was only opened two months earlier.

[Wys Guy]

How dare you forget me. The guys you mentioned barely even post!
I go out of my way to forget you Thurm.

;)

[Wys Guy]

Nope, but i think I know what it is all about. Quite frankly if it is what I think it is, I can't disagree with wys on this one.
I agree.

[Wys Guy]

My join date is 07-15-02.

Zone #69.

You were a different identity then, huh? What was it?

Or if you prefer, shoot me an e-mail if it's confidential.

I'd love to know which posters with new names where which names back when. Feel free to shoot me an e-mail.

[John Doe]

You were a different identity then, huh? What was it?

Or if you prefer, shoot me an e-mail if it's confidential.

I'd love to know which posters with new names where which names back when. Feel free to shoot me an e-mail.

I have not changed my user name as far as I can recall, but then my memory is not what it used to be.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

Here are the people that joined first and have posted in the last like 6 months:

7/13/02 (last visit)
JJamezz (today), lordofgun (yesterday), Romes (yesterday)

7/14/02
ArcticWildMan (yesterday), BillsMan80 (Today), billsfanone (today), Cntrygal (today), clumping platelets (today), Dozerdog (today), Mikey82 (yesterday), Pride (today), RedEyE (today), shelby (today), Sabre Ally (1-14-07), Shiny Chicken (today), Typ0 (today), The_Philster (N/A), Valerie (today)

7/15/02
#1 Bills Fan (10-08-2006), BillsNYC (3-3-07), colin (5-4-07), Cam-Eh (4-14-07), CajunBillsBacker (4-29-07), DraftBoy (today), EricStratton (today), Ebenezer (today), Earthquake Enyart (Yesterday), eyedog (today), John Doe (today), kegtapr (4-17-07), mchurchfie (N/A), Mad Bomber (N/A), mackey789 (yesterday), northernbillfan (yesterday), Patrick76777 (yesterday), SoCalBillsFan (yesterday), ShAgNSuRf 702 (today), shawn (today), SABURZFAN (today), ticatfan (5/16/07), the REAL Rudeman (1-22-07), tanked (today), Turf (today)

7/16/06
blue on blue (5-08-2007), buffalobill43 (4-9-2007), Dr. Who (3-31-07), DBam (yesterday), doug45 (5-17-07), Gunzlingr (today), HenryRules (5-23-07), JWatts (5-1-07), justasportsfan (N/A), John from Hemet (5-2-07), JefftheBillsfan (yesterday), mybills (yesterday), NC-BILLS44 (yesterday), THATHURMANATOR (today), wiener52 (yesterday)

[SABURZFAN]

Please, don't post if you weren't. I was just curious how many there were and whether they are still here or not. Obviously LOG, Dozer, Jamez, Typ0, etc.

How about a charter member roll call.



:popcorn:

[SABURZFAN]

does September 02 count?


no

[SABURZFAN]

what # am I?



zero

[Wys Guy]

IDK, I was kinda thinkin' "first season" in operation. I'd say through Sept./Oct. of that year.

[Mad Bomber]

IDK, I was kinda thinkin' "first season" in operation. I'd say through Sept./Oct. of that year.

I thought you meant first Bills season = through Decembr 2002.

[G. Host]

One of the Zoners who split of from the Rick's Rejects sent me an invitation to join on TSW (which he was on as well) the first day. I think it was Dozer or Mikey. I joined 7-20-2002 after sofware failing several successive times to work.

[SquishDaFish]

What ever happened to CajunBillsBacker??

[G. Host]

What ever happened to CajunBillsBacker??

Joey stopped posting very much after New Orleans disaster. He did not have the internet for a long period and I suspect was still too busy afterwards.

[StillLurkin]

Still lurking around after all these years!!

[hammerbillsfan]

Where is SabreAlly? :(

[RedEyE]

I was (and still am) member #34.

[venis2k1]

dang ole yo. jul 02

[Wys Guy]

I thought you meant first Bills season = through Decembr 2002.
That works too. Just not in '03.

This isn't an acid test or anything. LOL

[Ebenezer]

here from conception!

[Typ0]

I've never been here...it's just an illusion.

[kgun12]

07-19-2002 Hi Wys! BTW where do you find your member's number?

[SquishDaFish]

Joey stopped posting very much after New Orleans disaster. He did not have the internet for a long period and I suspect was still too busy afterwards.

I chat with him here and there via Phone. Just disnt know why he stoped posting.

[Ed]

I was here in September 02. I was a couple months late on learning about the split.

Does anyone remember the original buffalorange site, the one that became billsinsider? That's where everything all really started for me.

[Bert102176]

I think I was

[Bert102176]

cause I was on the other then it turned into this one

[Bert102176]

well hope Joey is doing good I remember him but it's been a while

[BidsJr]

Here from almost the beginning.

And how bout that my 900th post.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I got here within a couple months of the debut of the site, so I'm one of the OGs. Don't know what my zoner # is though. :miyagi:

[don137]

I came over in July 17, 2002...Not sure what zone number I am but in the top 200 I think...

[G. Host]

I got here within a couple months of the debut of the site, so I'm one of the OGs. Don't know what my zoner # is though. :miyagi:

#417


I came over in July 17, 2002...Not sure what zone number I am but in the top 200 I think...

#135

If you click on a link to a poster the number is listed at end of link.

[bernielivsey_1]

:madhop: I waited till the first off season. I wanted to make sure The Bills Zoners were worthy. They are and I have been very happy since. I was on the BuffaloBills.com MB way in the beginning.....it was horrible....I still have nightmares.
P.S. I have spent many, many, many, many hours reading your posts in the old days WYS...welcome back :welcome: ....and I still have nightmares. :lol!:

[Mad Bomber]

I was a member of that site that shall go unnamed (sounds like people talking about Valdemort in a Harry Potter movie). Went on vacation for the first two weeks of July 2002 and all hell broke loose. I don't know what happened or why, but I got an email from ArcticWildMan (where the hell IS he anyway?) telling me about the Zone. I joined immediately. After a while, I went back and rescued honey (she was wondering where the hell everyone went) and brought her over here.

I still haven't been banned from that other site....

[Mad Bomber]

I was here from Day 2 or 3 on...Started under a different name (Winfield_26) but Ive been here since it started.
July 15...same as me. :up:

[Wys Guy]

07-19-2002 Hi Wys! BTW where do you find your member's number?
Mornin'! I have no idea. I don't live here anymore.

Heck, I barely know where the heads are on this boat.

[Wys Guy]

I got here within a couple months of the debut of the site, so I'm one of the OGs. Don't know what my zoner # is though. :miyagi:

You had a different name though. Wisconsin Bills Fan or something?

[Wys Guy]

:madhop: I waited till the first off season. I wanted to make sure The Bills Zoners were worthy. They are and I have been very happy since. I was on the BuffaloBills.com MB way in the beginning.....it was horrible....I still have nightmares.
P.S. I have spent many, many, many, many hours reading your posts in the old days WYS...welcome back :welcome: ....and I still have nightmares. :lol!:

Nightmares! LMAO

[LtBillsFan66]

I've been here since day 2. Shiva told me about this place.

[BillsFanInMass]

I joined when the zone was about 7 months old i think.

[Wys Guy]

I was here in September 02. I was a couple months late on learning about the split.

Does anyone remember the original buffalorange site, the one that became billsinsider? That's where everything all really started for me.

Yeah, the whole thing was pretty interesting. And frankly, it's very ... impressive how far the internet has advanced since those days. The internet really started taking off such that this stuff was possible c. '99/'00.

Not surprisingly the official site had the most advanced MB at that time but as many have said, it was an absolute nightmare over there. The mods were non-existent and when they did peek in they were entirely neutered by choice.

At that time I believe there was a migration towards the Range, probably the next best known site for posters/fans. A bunch of us got actively involved there. Meathead over there decided to try to milk his own staff for funding to the site, most of which he pocketed at the time, and then feigned "bankrupcy" and going out of business.

So we (LOG, Dozer, Typ0, Jamez, and I) said screw this, not after all of our hard work. So we took meathead at his word and started our own site.

Thus the genesis of BillsZone.

[Ebenezer]

Yeah, the whole thing was pretty interesting. And frankly, it's very ... impressive how far the internet has advanced since those days. The internet really started taking off such that this stuff was possible c. '99/'00.

Not surprisingly the official site had the most advanced MB at that time but as many have said, it was an absolute nightmare over there. The mods were non-existent and when they did peek in they were entirely neutered by choice.

At that time I believe there was a migration towards the Range, probably the next best known site for posters/fans. A bunch of us got actively involved there. Meathead over there decided to try to milk his own staff for funding to the site, most of which he pocketed at the time, and then feigned "bankrupcy" and going out of business.

So we (LOG, Dozer, Typ0, Jamez, and I) said screw this, not after all of our hard work. So we took meathead at his word and started our own site.

Thus the genesis of BillsZone.
not to be confused with our ever present Meathead.

[Mad Bomber]

not to be confused with our ever present Meathead.
aka Halbert

[Tatonka]

i was here a few days after it started.. i dont remember the exact date though. is there a way to find out what number you are?

[Tatonka]

hey wys.. are you counting yourself as a "member", even though you peaced out for years in between the beginning and the current date and tried to start several other sites on your own that didnt work out? you have come full circle i guess, young danielson.

[mybills]

july 16 2002 zoner # 81. :wave:
i was invited over & it went something like this...
"Hey dude etc..."
a year later, I revealed that I wasn't a dude. :snicker:

[Wys Guy]

hey wys.. are you counting yourself as a "member", even though you peaced out for years in between the beginning and the current date and tried to start several other sites on your own that didnt work out? you have come full circle i guess, young danielson.

What's that, a cute way of attempting to slap a failure label on me? LOL

Kind of a snide intro, no? Yeah, in my "spare time." I hope that you don't think that I was attempting to make it a profession.

Second of all, did I ever say that I was a "member" of anything? I don't believe that I did. I claim no association or affiliation to this site anymore. Our business models differ incredibly. From what I've heard, with quite the bit more effort, there are no profits here either. The potential exists, but hey, it existed way back when too.

Good to see that a good number of my ideas are still very, very active however on the site that you enjoy so much. ;)

Read my friend, read. I merely asked a simple question. Good to see some friendly talk coming back from you though. I've had some time on my hands which is why I'm posting now and b/c it's Memorial Day Weekend and I figured that I wouldn't have to deal with too many comments such as yours. Why the seeming animosity anyway?

As to my sites, since you seem unsure, I essentially started one and then changed the name of it. I write primarily for therapeutic reasons. Prior to that I got paid to write for another one. They ran months behind on paying me their contractual obligation, so I quit. It costs next to nothing to put up the articles and I do have a loyal readership. The market for content is saturated in this industry. This site wouldn't really know since the only substantive, distinctive, and insightful original content is the maintaining of the salary cap stuff, which BTW is superlative as if I need to point that out!

I have to tell ya, I just don't understand of you guys. Seriously.

Is it that tough to simply be friendly? Is it?

Honestly...

So how's the insurance business?

[Michael82]

This site wouldn't really know since the only substantive, distinctive, and insightful original content is the maintaining of the salary cap stuff

That's bull****! We do have a bunch of original content, at least during the season. And during training camp...but the offseason, people are busy with stuff and it gets forgotten.

[Wys Guy]

That's bull****! We do have a bunch of original content, at least during the season. And during training camp...but the offseason, people are busy with stuff and it gets forgotten.
I'll refrain from further comment. No ill will intended. :)

My response was in light of Tatonka's post.

[SABURZFAN]

I chat with him here and there via Phone. Just disnt know why he stoped posting.



to get away from you.it's THAT obvious.

[Ingtar33]

i'm close enough i guess.

how goes it wys?

[Gunzlingr]

I have been here since the beginning

[Tatonka]

Good to see some friendly talk coming back from you though. I've had some time on my hands which is why I'm posting now and b/c it's Memorial Day Weekend and I figured that I wouldn't have to deal with too many comments such as yours. Why the seeming animosity anyway?

I have to tell ya, I just don't understand of you guys. Seriously.

Is it that tough to simply be friendly? Is it?

Honestly...

So how's the insurance business?

the animosity comes from several backhanded comments you have made about what you perceive as ignorant message board trolls in several of your articles... the proclamation that you were done with places like this.. and then the constant mention of them in your articles while you were lurking anonymously. any time you make one of those comments, it never fails that someone would post the comment on the board for others to see.

you have always seemed to carry the attitude that "message board posters" are just a lot of unknowledgable dolts and you are the most knowledgeable resource in the bills universe.

i always liked you on a personal level, as most people would probably profess to here that have met you. but after sitting through a draft with you and seeing how much you truly complain, persistently, and neverendingly about everything to do with the bills (for example, you literally went on for an hour straight and emptied a room complaining about lee Evans and losman after they were drafted).

i guess that is where my frustration comes in with you.. i dont know anyone that can deal with constant negativity about something that most here love so much without feeling some kind of resentment.

but i will keep my comments to myself, as it is inappropriate to take a lame shot at you like i did last night. i apologize.

[Tatonka]

oh.. and the insurance business is fine.. as long as trees are still landing on peoples houses, i will always have work... im finally working out of my house now. i could shovel cow crap for a living, as long as i am working from home, i think i would be happy.

:cheers:

[Bufftp]

Ok guys if you have issues with each other work it out via pm's or email. Not here. This is the only warning.

[Wys Guy]

i'm close enough i guess.

how goes it wys?

Great!

How you doin'! LOL

[Tatonka]

Ok guys if you have issues with each other work it out via pm's or email. Not here. This is the only warning.

there is nothing to work out. i just apologized.

[ublinkwescore]

This isn't a prelude to some endless diatribe on the 'homers' expectations for the 2003 season is it? I sense an ulterior motive.. :D

Welcome back though bro.

Well, we did have a lot of reason to have high expectations.

if we would have only had a coaching staff worth it's salt, we should have made the playoffs that year, and we had the team to go deep in it.

Bledsoe is/was an average at best QB, but he was still lightyears ahead of RJ as a QB.

[TacklingDummy]

To some, sadly TacklingDummy has been here since Join Date: 07-21-2002.

Don't know my number.

Valerie is the one who told me to come here. Blame her.

[kgun12]

If you click on a link to a poster the number is listed at end of link.

What do you mean click on a link to the poster.

[justasportsfan]

To some, sadly TacklingDummy has been here since Join Date: 07-21-2002.

Don't know my number.

Valerie is the one who told me to come here. Blame her.

Jaded told me. Sigh, I miss her .She's gone

[TacklingDummy]

Don't know my number.



196, I think.

[LtBillsFan66]

I'm Zoner #16.

[Bufftp]

What do you mean click on a link to the poster.
click on the username, then select view public profile. At the end of the url you will see u=#

you are
http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/member.php?u=168

user # 168
Join Date: 07-19-2002

I'm
#139
Join Date: 07-17-2002

[LtBillsFan66]

the animosity comes from several backhanded comments you have made about what you perceive as ignorant message board trolls in several of your articles... the proclamation that you were done with places like this.. and then the constant mention of them in your articles while you were lurking anonymously. any time you make one of those comments, it never fails that someone would post the comment on the board for others to see.

you have always seemed to carry the attitude that "message board posters" are just a lot of unknowledgable dolts and you are the most knowledgeable resource in the bills universe.

i always liked you on a personal level, as most people would probably profess to here that have met you. but after sitting through a draft with you and seeing how much you truly complain, persistently, and neverendingly about everything to do with the bills (for example, you literally went on for an hour straight and emptied a room complaining about lee Evans and losman after they were drafted).

i guess that is where my frustration comes in with you.. i dont know anyone that can deal with constant negativity about something that most here love so much without feeling some kind of resentment.

but i will keep my comments to myself, as it is inappropriate to take a lame shot at you like i did last night. i apologize.
:bf1:

[Wys Guy]

the animosity comes from several backhanded comments you have made about what you perceive as ignorant message board trolls in several of your articles... the proclamation that you were done with places like this.. and then the constant mention of them in your articles while you were lurking anonymously. any time you make one of those comments, it never fails that someone would post the comment on the board for others to see.

you have always seemed to carry the attitude that "message board posters" are just a lot of unknowledgable dolts and you are the most knowledgeable resource in the bills universe.

i always liked you on a personal level, as most people would probably profess to here that have met you. but after sitting through a draft with you and seeing how much you truly complain, persistently, and neverendingly about everything to do with the bills (for example, you literally went on for an hour straight and emptied a room complaining about lee Evans and losman after they were drafted).

i guess that is where my frustration comes in with you.. i dont know anyone that can deal with constant negativity about something that most here love so much without feeling some kind of resentment.

but i will keep my comments to myself, as it is inappropriate to take a lame shot at you like i did last night. i apologize.
Apology accepted!

I know that kind of stuff is a habit here generally speaking. Unfortunately and sadly.

As to the rest of your comments, you and others here say things about me personally that quite frankly I would be utterly ashamed and embarrassed to say about others knowing that I would have to face them in the future. I don't understand it quite frankly. I don't do it to others. I have no problem with people criticizing Wys the writer, but much of what's said here transcends that easily.

Besides, why are you paranoid that you read articles and assume that generic references to a general class of people are all about you? I didn't mention you by name or implicitly otherwise. I go to all the MBs, all four of them for certain reasons. I rarely read through entire threads here unless I'm actively involved in them, which is rare and about to become even rarer. I read the others even less. Don't flatter yourself thinking that somehow I can't avoid this place. Too much of it and it merely reminds me of exactly why I and many others interested in actually discussing football are not a bigger part of a forum such as this one. I don't enjoy a lot of it.

At least you seem to actually read my articles instead of pretending to be God-like and know everything about them and exactly what I'm thinking without actually reading them, for years on end I might add, so I'll give you props for that. Although I recently read where even you said that you don't, so I'll assume that you actually do.

But then accordingly, how about acknowledging all of the areas that I've been absolutely correct on over the years? I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but there isn't an analyst out there that's been more accurate, with predictions in writing ahead of time, on this team over the last five seasons or so. Instead you (and others) seem to have a perpetual axe to grind so that even when I come here in peace for just some good football discussion, which is extremely rare here I realize, or just some lighthearted base-touching with some past acquaintenances, you perpetually harbor whatever resentments you can't get over.

Spare me the "he's different in person" stuff too. I'm the same everywhere. I don't backstab people in one forum and then extend my hand in friendship in another altogether like so many here do, and so many that quite frankly I never would have expected it from.

Now, as to the trivial football context hidden within your statements, which fully represents how no one here can be light for any length of time or discuss football without a large segment of the posting populace turning it into an issue-laden animosity-filled attack, allow me to comment on Evans.

I still today would make it a practice to never draft a WR in round 1, just as I've stated in the past. I just wouldn't. The teams with the best WRs rarely win the Super Bowl because they have a top WR. It's still the teams that play the best in the trenches, control the LoS, the clock, and can stop the run and run the ball themselves as a result. If they are managed well enough to have top talent at WR too, then that clearly goes along for the ride.

Meanwhile, have you considered for even a moment, that Evans is likely outta here by the time some of the other units that this crew are assembling may come to fruition? If, that is, their methods are rewarded and end up successful, which I would highly question at least on a grand scale to be sure. Evans, after this season will want more money, and why not, after all he'll have earned it, at least IMO. He'll be worth a heck of a lot more than Dockery's contract too. He'll be more worth what Clements just got. But WHOA!! Apparently we can't afford such contracts. TBD.

But whoa, there I go talking about football again. My bad. ;)

I will say this, there is quite a bit of blind criticism of my articles and works, just about all by people insisting and confirmig that they don't ever read those same articles. Yet, I'm supposed to respect that?

I have yet to find anyone that writes me in an exchange critically, that can defend their positions when they oppose my analyses. Most of the critical hate mail that I get is from MB-ers, hence my positions as in not you T, doing nothing but levying four-letter tirades that are not capable of being put on any respectable forum. There's never any substance, no indication that what I wrote is actually incorrect or short-sighted, just hate speech. In fact, my analyses are spot on whether you and/or others here would care to admit it or not, it makes no difference just as if you thought that the earth were flat that it actually would be.

Yet, no one ever challenges me with credible facts, data, history, trend analysis, patterns establish, NFL conventional wisdom/lore, etc. It's always personal attacks aimed at slandering my character.

I'll give you two great examples on some of my analysis contrasted with what I read here by what many refer to as "homers," including myself.

Larry Tripplett was terrible in Indy. He lost his starting job twice. His few sacks throughout his career have almost categorically been late in games vs. terrible QBs in garbage time while his team was ahead. We knew this, if we had looked into it which I'm not certain our FO did, before we signed him and I pointed out as much. He provided not even average caliber play last year demonstrating no strength(s) at all. Yet, many here believe that now, Mikey82 as recently stated for example, already in his prime, in his 6th season, something is magically going to happen that will result in Tripplett playing well.

So what is it? Magic beans? Steroids? Special nurturing and TLC from the team's staff? What is the reason why a player that has never ever performed consistently to even an average level will all of a sudden provide that or more? I'd ask the proverbial "anyone" but I'm not exactly looking forward to the personal onslaught amidst angry people that can't answer that effectively. If you can however then I'm all ears. Otherwise I do believe that my opinions that Tripplett is one of the most overpaid underperforming players on our team is quite accurate, wouldn't you?

The other is Langston Walker. If we brought on a nameless/faceless OT that had performed as Walker did for veteran minimum, no one would even think anything of it. Much like Tripplett, Walker, also mid-prime and entering his 6th season, has been unable to prove that he's anything more than a backup effectually. He has clearly not impressed anyone in five seasons not even having started for the first four and played dismally last season unless you consider that allowing over 10 sacks is good coupled with another 3 holding penalties. If he does that here this year I promise you that you'll be just as down on him as I am now. If not, then I would challenge what your expectations for this team are. His backup play prior to that produces sacks and holds at the same rate. Ergo, it cannot possibly be blamed on his starting only vice coming in as depth.

But now, for some inexplicable reason, much as with Tripplett, the 6th season's the charm, eh. All of a sudden, mid-prime, Walker's going to morph into something that he's never ever been, right?

Both of those are attitudes and opinons that many here, most in fact, hold along with a good chunk of the national level media. Why? Can you support the opposite of what I've laid out regarding either player and do so using hard data or facts?

Instead, the answer is that people that produced an issue-laden McCargo with ongoing issues and costing us two draft picks;
that produced a CB on day-one of last year's draft joining McCargo as two of three players selected on day-one last year that were entirely unproductive for one reason or another, predictable in McCargo's case;
that overpaid Tripplett absurdly;
that overpaid Kelsay absurdly;
that drafted a bunch of backups this year after our first two picks when we needed all kinds of starters;
are experts and know more?

It gets quite old frankly. I've offered to go toe-to-toe with journalists, other analysts, readers, e-mailees, you, everyone else here, generally put forth, and yet no one, no one, not one person, has ever agree to take me up on that T.

So why don't you be the first. You lay your predictions side-by-side with mine and at the end of the season we'll see whose beliefs on this team were more accurate. Oh, I'll pretty much all but guarantee you that prior to week one yours will be the more popular, but by season's end, let's see whose holds more water.

As I tell people, when this team is truly ready to challenge for something great, ironically they'll probably first hear about it in one of my articles on my site. I desperately want this team to succeed. We're just not going about it effectively. Actually we're being about as ineffective as we can be. You can't ignore two-thirds of the team while spending three seasons getting one-third to be there when you finally begin to address the other two-thirds of it. That's folly, yet that's exactly what we have at OBD.

Why do I find myself thinking that once again my words will not return to me? Ball's in your court my friend! You have a forum.

Some will say that this post is long-winded, is redundant, negative, etc.

It isn't. It's well written, well reasoned and supported. Well laid out. Makes no redundant points or arguments. And should be easy for anyone with reading skills at the high school level or higher to read. So I have no idea what people talk about when they say that. My articles are likewise with an occasional "redundant" paragraph/point which is often intentional to hammer home a point.

[Wys Guy]

Jaded told me. Sigh, I miss her .She's gone

Where's my return e-mail?

Still hasn't arrived. I've sent you two notes to the e-mail addy that you said was correct yesterday.

I'll take it that you no longer support your wager offer and therefore no longer defend your position as such.

[LtBillsFan66]

All drivel. :down:

How's Travis Brown, Mark Campbell (the best TE in the league), Shawn Bryson, et al?

[Wys Guy]

there is nothing to work out. i just apologized.

Again, apology accepted, although I did take the opportunity to make some general comments not particular to you per se. :)


oh.. and the insurance business is fine.. as long as trees are still landing on peoples houses, i will always have work... im finally working out of my house now. i could shovel cow crap for a living, as long as i am working from home, i think i would be happy.

:cheers:

That's great! It's the way to go.

[justasportsfan]

Where's my return e-mail?

Still hasn't arrived. I've sent you two notes to the e-mail addy that you said was correct yesterday.

I'll take it that you no longer support your wager offer and therefore no longer defend your position as such.


Stop sidestepping the wager and let's deal with it via pm since you can't understand that I'm not at work. DUH!!!

BTW, I also have another wager in OP's thread , you gonna try and spin that to get away from it too?

[casdhf]

Shawn Byson is ripping things up in Detroit!

[Tatonka]

wys.. i don't read your articles.. what i read is when someone else posts one of the comments where you take pot shots at the lack of message board poster knowledge.

and you love to go back and forth about all the times you were right.. i understand that no one is 100%.. but it is you that seem to miss that.. NO ONE IS ALWAYS RIGHT.. it doesn't matter who it is.. you might think your supporting our points with great facts and making the right call.. guess what.. that makes you no different than anyone else.. for every time your right (bledsoe), your wrong (rj or Travis brown), just like everyone else..

it is what it is.. the point was not to get into a debate.. i took a shot at you regarding your other sites.. it was pointless and unnecessary.. i wont be taking any more "shots".. your right in that, in most cases.. you talk football and get spammed with ******* comments that you just are not deserving of.. i have witnessed a few cases and been part of a couple epic debates with you that have transcended that from both sides in the past, but i will take credit for initiating those comments, even though you know you can be an agitator :wink:

this is a football message board and you are here talking football.. you are doing what the board is intended for..

again, i apologize for making a dick head comment.. it wont happen again.. i promise.

[Wys Guy]

Stop sidestepping the wager and let's deal with it via pm since you can't understand that I'm not at work. DUH!!!

BTW, I also have another wager in OP's thread , you gonna try and spin that to get away from it too?

You wanna wager, shoot me an e-mail.

I could tie one onto a lamppost on your nearest side street to offer you but somehow hardly I would find that to be most unfair for me then to come back and lambaste you for not acknowledging it.

Besides, you're the one that insisted that the e-mail you originally gave me was incorrect.

I don't do PMs. This ain't my "home" as it were and I find much of what goes on here less than enjoyable to be polite.

E-mail is how I do business in that regard. If that's not going to work, in spite of your originally stating that it would, then that's fine. Just let me know.

There, that's an out for you. So now let's quit playing adolescent games and shoot me a note either in confirmation or retraction. This is getting old and I'm not going to hand deliver it to your house like a warrant.

I'll shoot you yet another now. :]

[Bill Brasky]

I was here before the site was even invented.

[Wys Guy]

I was here before the site was even invented.

Keepin' the seat warm, eh!

;)

[Tatonka]

i was member 183 apparently..

[justasportsfan]

You wanna wager, shoot me an e-mail.

I could tie one onto a lamppost on your nearest side street to offer you but somehow hardly I would find that to be most unfair for me then to come back and lambaste you for not acknowledging it.

Besides, you're the one that insisted that the e-mail you originally gave me was incorrect.

I don't do PMs. This ain't my "home" as it were and I find much of what goes on here less than enjoyable to be polite.

E-mail is how I do business in that regard. If that's not going to work, in spite of your originally stating that it would, then that's fine. Just let me know.

There, that's an out for you. So now let's quit playing adolescent games and shoot me a note either in confirmation or retraction. This is getting old and I'm not going to hand deliver it to your house like a warrant.

I'll shoot you yet another now. :]


what is it that "i'm not at work" that you can't understand? I don't care if this is not your home. How bout' we finsih it here publicly since you keep saying I'm sidestepping.

We wagered about the run D. Let me clarify. Is it total run nos. for the season or run ave. against for the season?

If you won't settle it now it's obvious you're the one sidestepping. Are you also gonna take the bet in Op's thread ?

[TacklingDummy]

Apology accepted!

I know that kind of stuff is a habit here generally speaking. Unfortunately and sadly.

As to the rest of your comments, you and others here say things about me personally that quite frankly I would be utterly ashamed and embarrassed to say about others knowing that I would have to face them in the future. I don't understand it quite frankly. I don't do it to others. I have no problem with people criticizing Wys the writer, but much of what's said here transcends that easily.

Besides, why are you paranoid that you read articles and assume that generic references to a general class of people are all about you? I didn't mention you by name or implicitly otherwise. I go to all the MBs, all four of them for certain reasons. I rarely read through entire threads here unless I'm actively involved in them, which is rare and about to become even rarer. I read the others even less. Don't flatter yourself thinking that somehow I can't avoid this place. Too much of it and it merely reminds me of exactly why I and many others interested in actually discussing football are not a bigger part of a forum such as this one. I don't enjoy a lot of it.

At least you seem to actually read my articles instead of pretending to be God-like and know everything about them and exactly what I'm thinking without actually reading them, for years on end I might add, so I'll give you props for that. Although I recently read where even you said that you don't, so I'll assume that you actually do.

But then accordingly, how about acknowledging all of the areas that I've been absolutely correct on over the years? I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but there isn't an analyst out there that's been more accurate, with predictions in writing ahead of time, on this team over the last five seasons or so. Instead you (and others) seem to have a perpetual axe to grind so that even when I come here in peace for just some good football discussion, which is extremely rare here I realize, or just some lighthearted base-touching with some past acquaintenances, you perpetually harbor whatever resentments you can't get over.

Spare me the "he's different in person" stuff too. I'm the same everywhere. I don't backstab people in one forum and then extend my hand in friendship in another altogether like so many here do, and so many that quite frankly I never would have expected it from.

Now, as to the trivial football context hidden within your statements, which fully represents how no one here can be light for any length of time or discuss football without a large segment of the posting populace turning it into an issue-laden animosity-filled attack, allow me to comment on Evans.

I still today would make it a practice to never draft a WR in round 1, just as I've stated in the past. I just wouldn't. The teams with the best WRs rarely win the Super Bowl because they have a top WR. It's still the teams that play the best in the trenches, control the LoS, the clock, and can stop the run and run the ball themselves as a result. If they are managed well enough to have top talent at WR too, then that clearly goes along for the ride.

Meanwhile, have you considered for even a moment, that Evans is likely outta here by the time some of the other units that this crew are assembling may come to fruition? If, that is, their methods are rewarded and end up successful, which I would highly question at least on a grand scale to be sure. Evans, after this season will want more money, and why not, after all he'll have earned it, at least IMO. He'll be worth a heck of a lot more than Dockery's contract too. He'll be more worth what Clements just got. But WHOA!! Apparently we can't afford such contracts. TBD.

But whoa, there I go talking about football again. My bad. ;)

I will say this, there is quite a bit of blind criticism of my articles and works, just about all by people insisting and confirmig that they don't ever read those same articles. Yet, I'm supposed to respect that?

I have yet to find anyone that writes me in an exchange critically, that can defend their positions when they oppose my analyses. Most of the critical hate mail that I get is from MB-ers, hence my positions as in not you T, doing nothing but levying four-letter tirades that are not capable of being put on any respectable forum. There's never any substance, no indication that what I wrote is actually incorrect or short-sighted, just hate speech. In fact, my analyses are spot on whether you and/or others here would care to admit it or not, it makes no difference just as if you thought that the earth were flat that it actually would be.

Yet, no one ever challenges me with credible facts, data, history, trend analysis, patterns establish, NFL conventional wisdom/lore, etc. It's always personal attacks aimed at slandering my character.

I'll give you two great examples on some of my analysis contrasted with what I read here by what many refer to as "homers," including myself.

Larry Tripplett was terrible in Indy. He lost his starting job twice. His few sacks throughout his career have almost categorically been late in games vs. terrible QBs in garbage time while his team was ahead. We knew this, if we had looked into it which I'm not certain our FO did, before we signed him and I pointed out as much. He provided not even average caliber play last year demonstrating no strength(s) at all. Yet, many here believe that now, Mikey82 as recently stated for example, already in his prime, in his 6th season, something is magically going to happen that will result in Tripplett playing well.

So what is it? Magic beans? Steroids? Special nurturing and TLC from the team's staff? What is the reason why a player that has never ever performed consistently to even an average level will all of a sudden provide that or more? I'd ask the proverbial "anyone" but I'm not exactly looking forward to the personal onslaught amidst angry people that can't answer that effectively. If you can however then I'm all ears. Otherwise I do believe that my opinions that Tripplett is one of the most overpaid underperforming players on our team is quite accurate, wouldn't you?

The other is Langston Walker. If we brought on a nameless/faceless OT that had performed as Walker did for veteran minimum, no one would even think anything of it. Much like Tripplett, Walker, also mid-prime and entering his 6th season, has been unable to prove that he's anything more than a backup effectually. He has clearly not impressed anyone in five seasons not even having started for the first four and played dismally last season unless you consider that allowing over 10 sacks is good coupled with another 3 holding penalties. If he does that here this year I promise you that you'll be just as down on him as I am now. If not, then I would challenge what your expectations for this team are. His backup play prior to that produces sacks and holds at the same rate. Ergo, it cannot possibly be blamed on his starting only vice coming in as depth.

But now, for some inexplicable reason, much as with Tripplett, the 6th season's the charm, eh. All of a sudden, mid-prime, Walker's going to morph into something that he's never ever been, right?

Both of those are attitudes and opinons that many here, most in fact, hold along with a good chunk of the national level media. Why? Can you support the opposite of what I've laid out regarding either player and do so using hard data or facts?

Instead, the answer is that people that produced an issue-laden McCargo with ongoing issues and costing us two draft picks;
that produced a CB on day-one of last year's draft joining McCargo as two of three players selected on day-one last year that were entirely unproductive for one reason or another, predictable in McCargo's case;
that overpaid Tripplett absurdly;
that overpaid Kelsay absurdly;
that drafted a bunch of backups this year after our first two picks when we needed all kinds of starters;
are experts and know more?

It gets quite old frankly. I've offered to go toe-to-toe with journalists, other analysts, readers, e-mailees, you, everyone else here, generally put forth, and yet no one, no one, not one person, has ever agree to take me up on that T.

So why don't you be the first. You lay your predictions side-by-side with mine and at the end of the season we'll see whose beliefs on this team were more accurate. Oh, I'll pretty much all but guarantee you that prior to week one yours will be the more popular, but by season's end, let's see whose holds more water.

As I tell people, when this team is truly ready to challenge for something great, ironically they'll probably first hear about it in one of my articles on my site. I desperately want this team to succeed. We're just not going about it effectively. Actually we're being about as ineffective as we can be. You can't ignore two-thirds of the team while spending three seasons getting one-third to be there when you finally begin to address the other two-thirds of it. That's folly, yet that's exactly what we have at OBD.

Why do I find myself thinking that once again my words will not return to me? Ball's in your court my friend! You have a forum.

Some will say that this post is long-winded, is redundant, negative, etc.

It isn't. It's well written, well reasoned and supported. Well laid out. Makes no redundant points or arguments. And should be easy for anyone with reading skills at the high school level or higher to read. So I have no idea what people talk about when they say that. My articles are likewise with an occasional "redundant" paragraph/point which is often intentional to hammer home a point.

I miss the novels.

I see WYS still hasn't learned that most people don't read more than a paragraph.

[justasportsfan]

still no reply here in this thread,Wys? Guess we know who's sidestepping the bet. I gotta run. Don't worry, the only way I don't reply from work if if you never sent an email. At least we have this thread to prove that I've attempted to finalize the wager PUBLICLY so you can't say I'm sidestepping the bet. So far it's looking that you're trying to sidestep 2 wagers.

[Wys Guy]

wys.. i don't read your articles.. what i read is when someone else posts one of the comments where you take pot shots at the lack of message board poster knowledge.

Well there you have it. Then how do you know what my analyses and opinions are? Perhaps you'd agree with most of them!

How do you know which posts or threads and on which sites I refer to? You must read all kinds of stuff throughout your lifetime. Do you always assume that when a fragment of a qualification fits your profile that it's you personally that is being referred to? Do you think it usually is? Clearly not.

As to message boards generally speaking, come on now, with MBs the mentality is all the same. One corporate culture dominates and ideas and discussion based on concrete notions are scant without pervasive interuptions by posters slamming others personally. That's the case on MBs whether they are sports, politics, etc. Makes no difference.

Furthermore, in the entire time that I've spent some time here recently, I have yet to have anyone go get some data from just one of my articles and challenge the statistical or informational basis for it. Hasn't happened once yet.


...and you love to go back and forth about all the times you were right.. i understand that no one is 100%.. but it is you that seem to miss that.. NO ONE IS ALWAYS RIGHT.. it doesn't matter who it is.. you might think your supporting our points with great facts and making the right call.. guess what.. that makes you no different than anyone else.. for every time your right (bledsoe), your wrong (rj or Travis brown), just like everyone else..

Once again, inferring things that I've never ever said. I do claim to be more right than anyone else of high profile that I know about and that include the Buff News, Rochester D&C, the two biggest local sources. The national ones are a cut above laughable and merely talking-head outlets, not only for the Bills, but for all teams. That's another story.

But who cares whether I'm right or wrong. I prefer to be accurate, but I'd be happy to be inaccurate these days. That's not the point. As I stated in another thread, the "squeaky wheel" getting the grease adage IMO applies here. Those "squeaky wheels" are the message boards. I would insist that the team does in fact gather a good chunk of its fan opinion from them. If that opinion, which is a vast minority opinion, supports what's not working, then it merely endorses such efforts and methodologies. I mean don't we all want to see the team succeed? I do. But that's not going to happen when we don't follow the proven formula for success at the highest levels in the NFL of with a scouting/personnel department that keeps feeding us lemons.

I have an article to be released soon stating that it seemed to be our draft strategy to get value whether or not those positions/players were actually needed. Otherwise how does one explain a draft that only promises to be full of backups and role players after our first two picks? Perhaps I'll make that a BZ original.

Regardless, and yes, it is quite possible for someone to be far more accurate than many others. Again, without you challenging specifics, or without people pitting their formerly stated predictions against mine outside of the media, it's impossible to compare and contrast those. I'm not going to waste days or weeks of my time proving points by digging through posts on this or some other message boad. Anyone here that oft criticizes me is more than welcome to post their predictions right next to mine on my site and/or this one. Happy to oblige. In fact, if anyone wants to pen a piece I'd be happy to put it up as long as it's substantive an well written and doesn't require a half-an-hour's worth of editing. Presumably such a piece would air here however.

I know my positions and they are always firmly stated and in the end either confirmed and credit taken, or not confirmed and admissions of incorrectness made. Unfortunately for you in this argument, the former outweighs the latter by a great deal.

BTW, feel free to challenge me on the Langston Walker/Larry Tripplett statements above. If not, then I can only assume that you agree. Those are pretty important points to agree with me on yet then in turn keep on insisting that we're "headed in the right direction." Wouldn't you say!

As to my methods, I merely do my due diligence, which few do, in or out of the media. You can come to the same accurate conclusions simply by spending some time poking around the web on players, coaches, GMs, etc. Of course understanding NFL history in context helps too.


it is what it is.. the point was not to get into a debate.. i took a shot at you regarding your other sites.. it was pointless and unnecessary.. i wont be taking any more "shots".. your right in that, in most cases.. you talk football and get spammed with ******* comments that you just are not deserving of.. i have witnessed a few cases and been part of a couple epic debates with you that have transcended that from both sides in the past, but i will take credit for initiating those comments, even though you know you can be an agitator :wink:

Well, I respect you for that much. I'd respect you more in the morning if you atually took the bull by the horns and challenged me on points made. Go ahead, read one or more of my pieces. I'm intentionally trying to write some shorter ones, but either way, I get kudos all the time for how well written they are so that when I read about people that didn't read them complaining the opposite, I have to dismiss those complains as entirely invalid. Again, wouldn't you under the same circumstances?

I mean is that what it's all about? Merely a collective of fans throwing around their opinions, substantiated and researched or not, with assumptions that for the time being all opinions are equally valid? To me that's like the guy with the science telling those without it that the world is round when they argue that it's flat and because they have numbers it's flat. OK, if that's the depth of the discussion, then why bother?

Otherwise, it would be as if we both showed up to fight each other to the death but I brought a axe and a mace but you brought a deck of cards. What am I to do with that?

Otherwise, I think that what you may construe as "agitating" I might consider issuing challenges. I go out of my way to not issue personal statements about people outside the context of a challenge issued in good faith except in a few instances when I'm entirely joking and think that it's obvious. In fact, I made what I thought was a joking comment about Thurm that was edited about whether or not his mother often held his head underwater in the tub as an infant or whether she used cleaning chemicals in the room to clean while he was sleeping. It was entirely lighthearted and not at all intended meanly. If someone had the wit to say similar things about me, and they have, I'd LMAO and in fact have. Obviously you have to know that something like that is pure joke. Needless to say it was edited. I was actually awaiting Thurm's response and hoping it would be equally funny. At least I thought it was funny and it was entirely intended as such. Otherwise you see that I rarely respond to Thurm.


this is a football message board and you are here talking football.. you are doing what the board is intended for..

again, i apologize for making a dick head comment.. it wont happen again.. i promise.

Right, and look at all the non-football related bashes at me sometimes "disguised" as "football related" amidst a glaring lack of substance in them both in this thread as well as others. Not by you.

I've always maintained that the first MB that can create a forum for people that can actually discuss football sans all the personal garbage will have something going. I personally have attempted to avoid having a large presence in the MBs on the software that does my site. My passion and gift is analysis and writing. But I have noticed that with just a few posters everyone respects one another and can discuss football ardently yet while accepting differing opinions. Having a forum of say 20 people that knew football and could talk in peace would be a slice of heaven.

My original intent in coming here was merely to see how some of you were doing and to perhaps see if there were any good football conversations to take part in. Yet, look at what it's become at least in part qualifying everything that I've said and continue to say, and certainly doing little to dispel any comments that I might have made in any of my articles to be sure.

Don't worry about the "dick head comment," your words. LOL

I fully appreciate the apology. I'm sure it's easy to do when there's an air about it in a forum. I hope that I haven't added any fuel to the fire. When I say "hi, my name is..." I tend to draw fire, so it's difficult to tell sometimes.

[Wys Guy]

I miss the novels.

I see WYS still hasn't learned that most people don't read more than a paragraph.

It's a self-weeding out thing Dummy. ;)

You do my work for me. T will read it.

[Wys Guy]

Naturally you had to gum up an entire two pages of screen just to repost my post and say that?

;)

[Wys Guy]

still no reply here in this thread,Wys? Guess we know who's sidestepping the bet. I gotta run. Don't worry, the only way I don't reply from work if if you never sent an email. At least we have this thread to prove that I've attempted to finalize the wager PUBLICLY so you can't say I'm sidestepping the bet. So far it's looking that you're trying to sidestep 2 wagers.

What is it about "I don't navigate these forums outside of a few threads" that you don't understand?

I've sent five e-mails now to addy's that you said would work and that you preferred. Since May 1st that is. That's nearly a month.

When you do get home from work, please confirm. Presumably you will be home from work withinn 24 hours. Not sure since it's been 26 days otherwise.

Long shifts presumably. ;)

[LtBillsFan66]

Opinions and/or theories, no matter how ludicrous, sometimes can't be "disproved" with facts and evidence. Anyone with a shred of emotional intelligence realizes that.

[justasportsfan]

What is it about "I don't navigate these forums outside of a few threads" that you don't understand?

I've sent five e-mails now to addy's that you said would work and that you preferred. Since May 1st that is. That's nearly a month.

When you do get home from work, please confirm. Presumably you will be home from work withinn 24 hours. Not sure since it's been 26 days otherwise.

Long shifts presumably. ;)



Damn . Still trying to sidestep. The new addy is my work addy and I am not at work. Would you like me to say that in german ?

I don't care if you don't come here often. You are here right now aren't you? You have my cell phone no. don't you? You be coming back for those predictions you are making with other posters here won't you?

Sheez wys. This is getting absurd. It's only takes one post to get the deal done. Stop using the addy as an excuse to wiggle yourself out of the wager. The bet is, whether by seasons end teams will or will not ave. 4.7 yards per carry against us. 4.7 yps is a wash. Anything less, I win anthign more you win. you know how much the wager is for . Take it or leave it and stop with the addy excuse.

[kgun12]

click on the username, then select view public profile. At the end of the url you will see u=#

you are
http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/member.php?u=168

user # 168
Join Date: 07-19-2002

I'm
#139
Join Date: 07-17-2002


Thank you kind sir!!!

[Earthquake Enyart]

If you take away the longest paragraphs, the rest of wys average isn't very good.

If you are trying to say that a lot of the new guys are douche bags, count me in.

[BillsOwnAll]

ive been here for a while :)

[SABURZFAN]

This is getting absurd.



:bf1:


CONGRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!


you played a big part in it.

[justasportsfan]

:bf1:


CONGRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!


you played a big part in it.
Haha! pot calling the kettle.

[Mad Bomber]

Oh, by the way, I was just curious...

Who was here in the first season that this site began?

[mybills]

Oh, by the way, I was just curious...

Who was here in the first season that this site began?
:rofl:

[THATHURMANATOR]

To some, sadly TacklingDummy has been here since Join Date: 07-21-2002.

Don't know my number.

Valerie is the one who told me to come here. Blame her.
Way to go Valerie... :ill:

[Romes]

I am a little late to the thread...but to answer the initial question. I've been here since the beginning. I went by CalBillsFan back then.

[THATHURMANATOR]

If you take away the longest paragraphs, the rest of wys average isn't very good.


:respect:

[Mr. Miyagi]

Apology accepted!

I know that kind of stuff is a habit here generally speaking. Unfortunately and sadly.

As to the rest of your comments, you and others here say things about me personally that quite frankly I would be utterly ashamed and embarrassed to say about others knowing that I would have to face them in the future. I don't understand it quite frankly. I don't do it to others. I have no problem with people criticizing Wys the writer, but much of what's said here transcends that easily.

Besides, why are you paranoid that you read articles and assume that generic references to a general class of people are all about you? I didn't mention you by name or implicitly otherwise. I go to all the MBs, all four of them for certain reasons. I rarely read through entire threads here unless I'm actively involved in them, which is rare and about to become even rarer. I read the others even less. Don't flatter yourself thinking that somehow I can't avoid this place. Too much of it and it merely reminds me of exactly why I and many others interested in actually discussing football are not a bigger part of a forum such as this one. I don't enjoy a lot of it.

At least you seem to actually read my articles instead of pretending to be God-like and know everything about them and exactly what I'm thinking without actually reading them, for years on end I might add, so I'll give you props for that. Although I recently read where even you said that you don't, so I'll assume that you actually do.

But then accordingly, how about acknowledging all of the areas that I've been absolutely correct on over the years? I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but there isn't an analyst out there that's been more accurate, with predictions in writing ahead of time, on this team over the last five seasons or so. Instead you (and others) seem to have a perpetual axe to grind so that even when I come here in peace for just some good football discussion, which is extremely rare here I realize, or just some lighthearted base-touching with some past acquaintenances, you perpetually harbor whatever resentments you can't get over.

Spare me the "he's different in person" stuff too. I'm the same everywhere. I don't backstab people in one forum and then extend my hand in friendship in another altogether like so many here do, and so many that quite frankly I never would have expected it from.

Now, as to the trivial football context hidden within your statements, which fully represents how no one here can be light for any length of time or discuss football without a large segment of the posting populace turning it into an issue-laden animosity-filled attack, allow me to comment on Evans.

I still today would make it a practice to never draft a WR in round 1, just as I've stated in the past. I just wouldn't. The teams with the best WRs rarely win the Super Bowl because they have a top WR. It's still the teams that play the best in the trenches, control the LoS, the clock, and can stop the run and run the ball themselves as a result. If they are managed well enough to have top talent at WR too, then that clearly goes along for the ride.

Meanwhile, have you considered for even a moment, that Evans is likely outta here by the time some of the other units that this crew are assembling may come to fruition? If, that is, their methods are rewarded and end up successful, which I would highly question at least on a grand scale to be sure. Evans, after this season will want more money, and why not, after all he'll have earned it, at least IMO. He'll be worth a heck of a lot more than Dockery's contract too. He'll be more worth what Clements just got. But WHOA!! Apparently we can't afford such contracts. TBD.

But whoa, there I go talking about football again. My bad. ;)

I will say this, there is quite a bit of blind criticism of my articles and works, just about all by people insisting and confirmig that they don't ever read those same articles. Yet, I'm supposed to respect that?

I have yet to find anyone that writes me in an exchange critically, that can defend their positions when they oppose my analyses. Most of the critical hate mail that I get is from MB-ers, hence my positions as in not you T, doing nothing but levying four-letter tirades that are not capable of being put on any respectable forum. There's never any substance, no indication that what I wrote is actually incorrect or short-sighted, just hate speech. In fact, my analyses are spot on whether you and/or others here would care to admit it or not, it makes no difference just as if you thought that the earth were flat that it actually would be.

Yet, no one ever challenges me with credible facts, data, history, trend analysis, patterns establish, NFL conventional wisdom/lore, etc. It's always personal attacks aimed at slandering my character.

I'll give you two great examples on some of my analysis contrasted with what I read here by what many refer to as "homers," including myself.

Larry Tripplett was terrible in Indy. He lost his starting job twice. His few sacks throughout his career have almost categorically been late in games vs. terrible QBs in garbage time while his team was ahead. We knew this, if we had looked into it which I'm not certain our FO did, before we signed him and I pointed out as much. He provided not even average caliber play last year demonstrating no strength(s) at all. Yet, many here believe that now, Mikey82 as recently stated for example, already in his prime, in his 6th season, something is magically going to happen that will result in Tripplett playing well.

So what is it? Magic beans? Steroids? Special nurturing and TLC from the team's staff? What is the reason why a player that has never ever performed consistently to even an average level will all of a sudden provide that or more? I'd ask the proverbial "anyone" but I'm not exactly looking forward to the personal onslaught amidst angry people that can't answer that effectively. If you can however then I'm all ears. Otherwise I do believe that my opinions that Tripplett is one of the most overpaid underperforming players on our team is quite accurate, wouldn't you?

The other is Langston Walker. If we brought on a nameless/faceless OT that had performed as Walker did for veteran minimum, no one would even think anything of it. Much like Tripplett, Walker, also mid-prime and entering his 6th season, has been unable to prove that he's anything more than a backup effectually. He has clearly not impressed anyone in five seasons not even having started for the first four and played dismally last season unless you consider that allowing over 10 sacks is good coupled with another 3 holding penalties. If he does that here this year I promise you that you'll be just as down on him as I am now. If not, then I would challenge what your expectations for this team are. His backup play prior to that produces sacks and holds at the same rate. Ergo, it cannot possibly be blamed on his starting only vice coming in as depth.

But now, for some inexplicable reason, much as with Tripplett, the 6th season's the charm, eh. All of a sudden, mid-prime, Walker's going to morph into something that he's never ever been, right?

Both of those are attitudes and opinons that many here, most in fact, hold along with a good chunk of the national level media. Why? Can you support the opposite of what I've laid out regarding either player and do so using hard data or facts?

Instead, the answer is that people that produced an issue-laden McCargo with ongoing issues and costing us two draft picks;
that produced a CB on day-one of last year's draft joining McCargo as two of three players selected on day-one last year that were entirely unproductive for one reason or another, predictable in McCargo's case;
that overpaid Tripplett absurdly;
that overpaid Kelsay absurdly;
that drafted a bunch of backups this year after our first two picks when we needed all kinds of starters;
are experts and know more?

It gets quite old frankly. I've offered to go toe-to-toe with journalists, other analysts, readers, e-mailees, you, everyone else here, generally put forth, and yet no one, no one, not one person, has ever agree to take me up on that T.

So why don't you be the first. You lay your predictions side-by-side with mine and at the end of the season we'll see whose beliefs on this team were more accurate. Oh, I'll pretty much all but guarantee you that prior to week one yours will be the more popular, but by season's end, let's see whose holds more water.

As I tell people, when this team is truly ready to challenge for something great, ironically they'll probably first hear about it in one of my articles on my site. I desperately want this team to succeed. We're just not going about it effectively. Actually we're being about as ineffective as we can be. You can't ignore two-thirds of the team while spending three seasons getting one-third to be there when you finally begin to address the other two-thirds of it. That's folly, yet that's exactly what we have at OBD.

Why do I find myself thinking that once again my words will not return to me? Ball's in your court my friend! You have a forum.

Some will say that this post is long-winded, is redundant, negative, etc.

It isn't. It's well written, well reasoned and supported. Well laid out. Makes no redundant points or arguments. And should be easy for anyone with reading skills at the high school level or higher to read. So I have no idea what people talk about when they say that. My articles are likewise with an occasional "redundant" paragraph/point which is often intentional to hammer home a point.
:yawn:

[THATHURMANATOR]

WYS send me the questionaire.

Coreyb3p@yahoo.com

[Jeff1220]

Mark told me about this place:
Join Date: 07-22-2002

[THATHURMANATOR]

I go out of my way to forget you Thurm.

;)
That makes sense.

[EricStratton]

I think I was Wys but it's been a long time to remember the details.

[Dozerdog]

How dare you forget me. The guys you mentioned barely even post!

Yeah- I decided to get laid instead

[Tatonka]

Yeah- I decided to get laid instead

your nose is growing.

[clumping platelets]

:wave:

[TedMock]

I think I was.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yeah- I decided to get laid instead
Big deal I get laid all the time...

[madness]

Big deal I get laid all the time...

He said laid, not laid out.

[THATHURMANATOR]

He said laid, not laid out.
DID HE? :ill:

[TigerJ]

I missed the start by a couple weeks. I went on vacation. When I came back and went on "the other website" I noticed a bunch of the regulars were gone. Nobody would talk about it, so I went looking. I have kind of pieced together what happened, but never did get all the details.