Fletch to be missed more than you'll admit.

[patmoran2006]

You know, I can certainly buy into fans being excited about some of the young talent on this team. As long as Wilson does the right thing over the next few off-seasons, this team could be solid for the forseeable future.
But what really gets under my skin is the way Fletcher was dissed when he left, and how "overated" he suddenly became.

To say this team won't miss FLetcher over the next 1-2 years is absolutely idiotic. They'll miss Clements obviously, but paying that contract would be dumb. But they should've kept Fletcher, even if they drafted Poz as well.
Look at these numbers.. Still don't think Fletcher will be missed?

* More than half of our total team interceptions last season (13) were made by Fletcher (4) and Clements (3)

* We ran back two interceptions for TD's last season. One was by Fletcher. The other one? By Clements

* People say FLetcher made all his tackles 7-yards down the field. Maybe so, but guess who led the team in tackles for losses last season? Nope, not a defensive linemen like it should be. It was London Fletcher (5).

* Fletcher had more passes defended in coverage last year than any Buffalo Bill on the team except for.. Nate Clements. Fletch (14) had more passes defended than starting cornerback Terrence McGee (11).

* Only one player scored multiple touchdowns defenisvely last season. It was Fletcher.

That's just stats. He's one of the few actual leaders on this team. This guy will be missed dearly, whether you want to admit it or not.

[shelby]

i am a huge fan of Fletcher's, and i was very sorry to see him go. If anything, i thought Fletch was underrated. However, it is what it is, and we will have to see how our D shapes up without him.

There are a corps of posters who considered him overrated. i named mchurchfie their president and CEO. :snicker:

[YardRat]

I'll admit it when it's been proven. For all anybody knows at this point it could be an upgrade OR a downgrade, but nobody can say for certain until the end of the year.

POZ certainly can't replace both Fletcher AND Clements, but if he...

Picks off four passes (or more)...
Runs one INT (or more) in for a TD...
Makes five tackles (or more, which is almost a given IMO) for a loss...
Defends 14 passes (or more)...
Scores twice on turnovers ( or more)...

Then it's an upgrade. Even if he 'only' equals London's stats that you've pointed out, and doesn't surpass them, then it's an upgrade.

Nothing you've mentioned above appears to be out of reach for a rookie MLB, by any means, especially in the T2. As a matter of fact, I don't think it's unrealistic to expect the same or better out of Poz, especially the tackles for a loss.

[gil]

Well, Poz has his work cut out for him - I'm looking *forward* to see what he can do this season.

[SyraBillsLican]

those numbers are representative of being a middle linebacker. Poz will inherit many of those number solely by occupying the position on the field.

Its like saying this: a team loses a left cb. in 2006, that corner had all the interceptions on the left side of the field. DUH! hes the left corner. just like you expect your middle linebacker to get most of your tackles. just because he led the team in tackles doesnt mean hes irreplaceable or that another cant come in and do the same

[patmoran2006]

I'll admit it when it's been proven. For all anybody knows at this point it could be an upgrade OR a downgrade, but nobody can say for certain until the end of the year.

POZ certainly can't replace both Fletcher AND Clements, but if he...

Picks off four passes (or more)...
Runs one INT (or more) in for a TD...
Makes five tackles (or more, which is almost a given IMO) for a loss...
Defends 14 passes (or more)...
Scores twice on turnovers ( or more)...

Then it's an upgrade. Even if he 'only' equals London's stats that you've pointed out, and doesn't surpass them, then it's an upgrade.

Nothing you've mentioned above appears to be out of reach for a rookie MLB, by any means, especially in the T2. As a matter of fact, I don't think it's unrealistic to expect the same or better out of Poz, especially the tackles for a loss.
146 tackles, 4 intereceptions, 2 TD's, 14 passes defended.

as a ROOKIE?

****.. there were PRO BOWL ILB's who didnt have those numbers. Fletch got shunned from the Pro Bowl.. again

[Goobylal]

Poz will take a little time to get comfortable. But eventually he'll be an upgrade. I'd put money on it happening this year, verus next year.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I can admit it, I loved Fletch and his attitude and fire.

[HHURRICANE]

Fletcher was a high motor guy that played above his ability. I'll give him that. But I watched him blow his shares of tackles, etc. He was mediocre in the real world but above average on this team.

The objective of this team is to replace every player we lose with something better. It may not go position by position but the overall product needs to improve.

1) You can make a strong argument for RB with getting both Lynch and Wright where rookies tend to do okay in year one. Bye-bye Willis.

2) You lose Nate but pick up a starting LG, RT, and RG with money you save and dramatically increase the depth at that position. Bye-bye Nate.

3) You lose Spkies (played better the last 2 games), Fletcher, and replace them with Polusczny and an average DT that may not sign with us. That looks like a step back no matter how you slice it.

[BuffaloBillsStampede]

Fletch is the only one of the guys we lost that I really wanted to keep. That guy is a ball player either way you look at it. All he does is make plays. He was not the reason for our poor run defense, in fact without him I think we struggle even more in run D last year.

[patmoran2006]

Im not knocking POZ>

GOod chance in time he can be a hell of a LB.

I'm just saying Fletch will be missed, especially in the short term.. Some People dont want to admit it though.

[X-Era]

You know, I can certainly buy into fans being excited about some of the young talent on this team. As long as Wilson does the right thing over the next few off-seasons, this team could be solid for the forseeable future.
But what really gets under my skin is the way Fletcher was dissed when he left, and how "overated" he suddenly became.

To say this team won't miss FLetcher over the next 1-2 years is absolutely idiotic. They'll miss Clements obviously, but paying that contract would be dumb. But they should've kept Fletcher, even if they drafted Poz as well.
Look at these numbers.. Still don't think Fletcher will be missed?

* More than half of our total team interceptions last season (13) were made by Fletcher (4) and Clements (3)

* We ran back two interceptions for TD's last season. One was by Fletcher. The other one? By Clements

* People say FLetcher made all his tackles 7-yards down the field. Maybe so, but guess who led the team in tackles for losses last season? Nope, not a defensive linemen like it should be. It was London Fletcher (5).

* Fletcher had more passes defended in coverage last year than any Buffalo Bill on the team except for.. Nate Clements. Fletch (14) had more passes defended than starting cornerback Terrence McGee (11).

* Only one player scored multiple touchdowns defenisvely last season. It was Fletcher.

That's just stats. He's one of the few actual leaders on this team. This guy will be missed dearly, whether you want to admit it or not.

The only people who will miss Fletch are those that used to cheer when he made a tackle without looking at how far past the line of scrimmage he made it. No, the other people that will miss him are the ones that dont watch games, just look at the leagues top tackling stats.

He was liability against the run with our smaller faster DT's. If he was behind mammoths like Ted Washington and Pat Williams, he would have been great, but hes not the right MLB in the cover 2 scheme. Its not a knock on him, I like how he played, its nothing more than the reality of him being a misfit in this system.

No disrespect to the Fletch fans BTW, but you had to look a bit deeper into his game and realize most of his tackles were too far past the line of scrimmage to force consistent 3 and outs.

Besides, were you one of the people saying run and stop the run after the end of the season? Well going to Puz and letting Fletch go is likely making us better vs. the run.

Remember tackling after 7 yards means he simply slows down scoring drives, thats not good enough. We want 3 and outs, not lots of tackles.

[gil]

I'm just saying Fletch will be missed, especially in the short term.. Some People dont want to admit it though.

There's nothing to admit until we see what we have on the field this year.

[patmoran2006]

The only people who will miss Fletch are those that used to cheer when he made a tackle without looking at how far past the line of scrimmage he made it. No, the other people that will miss him are the ones that dont watch games, just look at the leagues top tackling stats.

He was liability against the run with our smaller faster DT's. If he was behind mammoths like Ted Washington and Pat Williams, he would have been great, but hes not the right MLB in the cover 2 scheme. Its not a knock on him, I like how he played, its nothing more than the reality of him being a misfit in this system.

No disrespect to the Fletch fans BTW, but you had to look a bit deeper into his game and realize most of his tackles were too far past the line of scrimmage to force consistent 3 and outs.

Besides, were you one of the people saying run and stop the run after the end of the season? Well going to Puz and letting Fletch go is likely making us better vs. the run.

Remember tackling after 7 yards means he simply slows down scoring drives, thats not good enough. We want 3 and outs, not lots of tackles.
What in the world is your DEFINITION of a good cover two MLB?

He lead the team in tackles.. MORE IMPORTANTLY, He led the team in INTERCEPTIONS, DEFENSIVE touchdowns and had more passes defended than ANYONE in the secondary other than Clements.. What the hell more do you want from your middle linebacker in a cover two?

As for tackles for losses.. A MLB cover two has more zone pass coverage responsibility, so he reacts more than attacks the line.. and by the way, he STILL had more tackles for losses than ANYONE on the team..

C'mon man. get real

[Philagape]

A cover 2 LB also has to be very smart and instinctive. Fletcher was that. Fortunately, that's also one of Poz's strengths, but a rookie is still a rookie.

When replacing a good veteran with a rookie, the issue isn't whether the veteran will be missed -- of course he will -- but for how long.

[gil]

What in the world is your DEFINITION of a good cover two MLB?

He lead the team in tackles.. MORE IMPORTANTLY, He led the team in INTERCEPTIONS, DEFENSIVE touchdowns and had more passes defended than ANYONE in the secondary other than Clements.. What the hell more do you want from your middle linebacker in a cover two?

As for tackles for losses.. A MLB cover two has more zone pass coverage responsibility, so he reacts more than attacks the line.. and by the way, he STILL had more tackles for losses than ANYONE on the team..

C'mon man. get real

And someone else will lead the team in those categories this year - maybe they'll do better than Fletch, maybe they'll do worse, but no one -- not even you Pat -- knows what will happen.

On paper it would seem we have a big issue and I am admittedly worried, but I'm looking forward to the season ahead and that the guys we have will step up - I mean, really, what else can you do?

[Jan Reimers]

The fact is, Fletcher was getting older and had a lot of wear and tear. He most likely would have been less effective this season. You can't expect an aging player to continue his past performance.

There is a time to let aging players go. This was the time.

[Elminster]

And someone else will lead the team in those categories this year - maybe they'll do better than Fletch, maybe they'll do worse, but no one -- not even you Pat -- knows what will happen.

On paper it would seem we have a big issue and I am admittedly worried, but I'm looking forward to the season ahead and that the guys we have will step up - I mean, really, what else can you do?
Play Chicken Little and make definitive negative statements about the Bills and consider the season over because we lost a lot of paper stars? That's more Op's game than Pat's though. I, for one, will simply enjoy the kool-aid. It is quite tasty, and who knows if I'll be drinking it later?

[Jan Reimers]

With his instincts and intelligence, and having spent four years starting in a big time program, Poz is as ready as any rookie ever will be to come in and play well.

Sure, we'll miss Fletch, but how can you ever move forward without replacing your declining players with younger, bigger, potentially better players? The fact that Fletch never made a Pro Bowl should tell us a little.

And what do the Bills have to lose? I know there are many factors in our lack of recent success, but we never made the playoffs with Fletcher, Clements, Spikes, McGahee or any of the other departed players that get memorialized on this board.

Time to bite the bullet and move forward.

[patmoran2006]

Play Chicken Little and make definitive negative statements about the Bills and consider the season over because we lost a lot of paper stars? That's more Op's game than Pat's though. I, for one, will simply enjoy the kool-aid. It is quite tasty, and who knows if I'll be drinking it later?
London FLetcher was a "Paper Star" ?

You exude my point perfectly.

I have no problem with Poz. And Fletcher will be getting older so maybe letting him go wasn't the worst thing.

My point was he will be MISSED.

[BILLSROCK1212]

You know, I can certainly buy into fans being excited about some of the young talent on this team. As long as Wilson does the right thing over the next few off-seasons, this team could be solid for the forseeable future.
But what really gets under my skin is the way Fletcher was dissed when he left, and how "overated" he suddenly became.

To say this team won't miss FLetcher over the next 1-2 years is absolutely idiotic. They'll miss Clements obviously, but paying that contract would be dumb. But they should've kept Fletcher, even if they drafted Poz as well.
Look at these numbers.. Still don't think Fletcher will be missed?

* More than half of our total team interceptions last season (13) were made by Fletcher (4) and Clements (3)

* We ran back two interceptions for TD's last season. One was by Fletcher. The other one? By Clements

* People say FLetcher made all his tackles 7-yards down the field. Maybe so, but guess who led the team in tackles for losses last season? Nope, not a defensive linemen like it should be. It was London Fletcher (5).

* Fletcher had more passes defended in coverage last year than any Buffalo Bill on the team except for.. Nate Clements. Fletch (14) had more passes defended than starting cornerback Terrence McGee (11).

* Only one player scored multiple touchdowns defenisvely last season. It was Fletcher.

That's just stats. He's one of the few actual leaders on this team. This guy will be missed dearly, whether you want to admit it or not.I agree but I think it is better to get the young talent sooner than later and that is what was done. I will sadly admit though, that our team this year will struggle to be better than our team last year

[ddaryl]

I agree but I think it is better to get the young talent sooner than later and that is what was done. I will sadly admit though, that our team this year will struggle to be better than our team last year

On D yes, but we should be better on the O side.

and yes, since we are trying to retool this team with young talent that will grow and gel together it doesn't make much sense to keep aging older vets who are getting slower and will be long gone when this team is finally making playoff appearances.

We'll miss Fletch and Takeo but I see it as a direction that was necessary.

[YardRat]

London FLetcher was a "Paper Star" ?

You exude my point perfectly.

I have no problem with Poz. And Fletcher will be getting older so maybe letting him go wasn't the worst thing.

My point was he will be MISSED.

My point is YOU DON'T KNOW THAT RIGHT NOW.

And I've never said anywhere that London wasn't a good player for this team.

[SquishDaFish]

I loved him for his leadership and fire and passion. But most of his tackles came 5-10 yards past the line of scrimmage. (/sarcasm off)

[streetkings01]

Wow...out of 146 tackles, only 5 were for a loss! Out of every 29 tackles by Fletcher-Baker only 1 tackles went for negitive yards! For a MLB that cant be good.

[streetkings01]

Keith Ellison had 65 tackles and 4 of them were for negitive yards! London Fletchers tackles for loss will not be missed!

[Jan Reimers]

We may miss Fletcher, and we may not, depending on how quickly Poz develops. Realistically, Fletcher was a good player and leader, but not an All Pro.

IT DOESN'T MATTER, though. He's gone. Threads like this are not really helpful. We need to move forward and focus on who we have NOW, not who we've let go.

[feldspar]

stats...

I like Fletcher a lot, and I liked having him on my team; but I won't miss him too much. If Poz is the going to be the guy, you have to put him in now so he can get up to speed. Same thing with Youboty, McCargo, and Lynch.

I'll tell you one thing: I'm not going to miss anyone when the season finally starts. My team is always my team. Can you imagine how great it would be if there was a game tomorrow? I can't wait to see what happens.

[OpIv37]

You know, I can certainly buy into fans being excited about some of the young talent on this team. As long as Wilson does the right thing over the next few off-seasons, this team could be solid for the forseeable future.
But what really gets under my skin is the way Fletcher was dissed when he left, and how "overated" he suddenly became.

To say this team won't miss FLetcher over the next 1-2 years is absolutely idiotic. They'll miss Clements obviously, but paying that contract would be dumb. But they should've kept Fletcher, even if they drafted Poz as well.
Look at these numbers.. Still don't think Fletcher will be missed?

* More than half of our total team interceptions last season (13) were made by Fletcher (4) and Clements (3)

* We ran back two interceptions for TD's last season. One was by Fletcher. The other one? By Clements

* People say FLetcher made all his tackles 7-yards down the field. Maybe so, but guess who led the team in tackles for losses last season? Nope, not a defensive linemen like it should be. It was London Fletcher (5).

* Fletcher had more passes defended in coverage last year than any Buffalo Bill on the team except for.. Nate Clements. Fletch (14) had more passes defended than starting cornerback Terrence McGee (11).

* Only one player scored multiple touchdowns defenisvely last season. It was Fletcher.

That's just stats. He's one of the few actual leaders on this team. This guy will be missed dearly, whether you want to admit it or not.

I do have to say one thing- a lot of people here were critical of Fletcher and his tackles 7 yards downfield BEFORE he left, so I really don't think he suddenly became overrated. Many felt that way before he left.

That being said, I agree that he was a veteran presence and it will be tough for Poz (or any rookie, for that matter) to fill in for him immediately. That's not a knock on Poz because I do think he can be successful in this league- but experience takes time to obtain.

And the fact that he was the team leader with a mere 5 tackles for a loss is just sad.

[OpIv37]

stats...

I like Fletcher a lot, and I liked having him on my team; but I won't miss him too much. If Poz is the going to be the guy, you have to put him in now so he can get up to speed. Same thing with Youboty, McCargo, and Lynch.

I'll tell you one thing: I'm not going to miss anyone when the season finally starts. My team is always my team. Can you imagine how great it would be if there was a game tomorrow? I can't wait to see what happens.

You didn't miss Pat Williams in 2005? I sure as hell did.

[eyedog]

Won't miss him at all. RB @ LB are two positions where you can step in and play. I Think Poz ill be an upgrade.

[OpIv37]

IT DOESN'T MATTER, though. He's gone. Threads like this are not really helpful. We need to move forward and focus on who we have NOW, not who we've let go.

I completely disagree with this. When we're trying to analyze how the team will do this year, comparing it to who we had last year and how the D will do is perfectly legitimate. patmoran is saying he thinks Poz can't equal Fletcher's production or leadership, and while you and I may agree or disagree, it's certainly a relevant thread for a board discussing the Buffalo Bills.

[jimmifli]

He played (arguably) the most important position on one of the NFL's worst defenses. If he was a great LB the D would've been better.

[feelthepain]

Are Bill fans bi-polar?? Seriously, one second they're a better team and headed to the playoffs, the next their not. Damn if I can figure it out.

[YardRat]

Mike Stratton is sorely missed.

[Jan Reimers]

I completely disagree with this. When we're trying to analyze how the team will do this year, comparing it to who we had last year and how the D will do is perfectly legitimate. patmoran is saying he thinks Poz can't equal Fletcher's production or leadership, and while you and I may agree or disagree, it's certainly a relevant thread for a board discussing the Buffalo Bills.
Frankly, I think crying about players who are gone is a gigantic waste of time and effort. Comparing this year's defense to last year's defense is a colossal waste of time. This is a new season, so I would rather talk about our current situation.

And assuming that Fletcher - no matter if you like him or not - will continue to perform at the same level into the future is just plain silly.

We miss Tom Sestak, too, and if we had him at DT we'd be a lot better. Unfortunately, he's near my grandmother in the South Wales Cemetary.

[don137]

There is a financial side you keep overlooking when dealing with Fletcher. Sure I like Flectcher and he will be missed but he knew he was getting older and wanted that last big pay day. He may play with what he is worth this year or his skills may decline this year but who ever was going to sign him were going to have to eat the signing bonus at some point because he was going to be an over the hill player. if he would of taken a 2 yr contract that is one thing. No way do you give him a 5 year contract.

[alohabillsfan]

I am not sure how much we will miss Fletch, but I know he is on the wrong side of 30 for this building project! It was time to go in another direction, lets hope Poz was the right way!

2008 is the target

[Goobylal]

If it were any other player replacing Fletcher, I'd be more concerned. But Poz literally eats, sleeps, and breathes football. He's got great athleticism and he's smart. With those qualities, there's no reason to believe he won't have his assignments down sooner rather than later. But again as I said, he'll probably have some growing pains early.

And I expect the defense as a whole to be better, having a full year in the system behind them. If only McCargo and Walker weren't unknowns at this point, I'd probably be feeling pretty good about the defense. And while I think that Clements was a loss, the more important parts of the secondary in the cover-2 are the safeties, so we should be hoping for improvement from Whitner and Simpson.

[X-Era]

What in the world is your DEFINITION of a good cover two MLB?

He lead the team in tackles.. MORE IMPORTANTLY, He led the team in INTERCEPTIONS, DEFENSIVE touchdowns and had more passes defended than ANYONE in the secondary other than Clements.. What the hell more do you want from your middle linebacker in a cover two?

As for tackles for losses.. A MLB cover two has more zone pass coverage responsibility, so he reacts more than attacks the line.. and by the way, he STILL had more tackles for losses than ANYONE on the team..

C'mon man. get real

I like Fletch too, but not in this scheme. You can be a great cover 2 MLB and actually be 6' ya know. His size hampered him in his ability to stop the run AT the line. You didnt read my post. Having a zillion tackles, int's whatever doesnt mean you win games. He was consistent at making tackles beyond the key 3 yard mark. Thats not good enough to stop drives.

I loved the way he played, but getting a MLB with the size to make stops at the line improves our run D and improves our D. Like it, lump it I dont care.

Its a similar situation to when Antwoine Winfield left. He was loved by alot of people for his hard hitting tackling, well thats only ONE part of the game.

If you liked him, great. But the Bills made a move here that I think was needed and an upgrade, IMO.

[X-Era]

Wow...out of 146 tackles, only 5 were for a loss! Out of every 29 tackles by Fletcher-Baker only 1 tackles went for negitive yards! For a MLB that cant be good.

Thank you, a tackle in the endzone is still a score.

Its about killing drives, not tackling. Fletch was a run liability with our new smaller DT's

[Night Train]

With his instincts and intelligence, and having spent four years starting in a big time program, Poz is as ready as any rookie ever will be to come in and play well.

Sure, we'll miss Fletch, but how can you ever move forward without replacing your declining players with younger, bigger, potentially better players? The fact that Fletch never made a Pro Bowl should tell us a little.

And what do the Bills have to lose? I know there are many factors in our lack of recent success, but we never made the playoffs with Fletcher, Clements, Spikes, McGahee or any of the other departed players that get memorialized on this board.

Time to bite the bullet and move forward.

Ding,Ding Ding ! We have a winner !

[X-Era]

You didn't miss Pat Williams in 2005? I sure as hell did.

Absolutely I missed him, that was the year we let Jennings walk too.

Pat Williams was a home grown player who was rock solid and underrated. Was he worth what he got? not to me. But then, what are we saving our money for? how has that plan worked out for us?

I dont want to be Dan Snyder's team, but why we cant pay for a homegrown fan favorite is beyond me. Hopefully those mistakes left with TD.

[OpIv37]

Frankly, I think crying about players who are gone is a gigantic waste of time and effort. Comparing this year's defense to last year's defense is a colossal waste of time. This is a new season, so I would rather talk about our current situation.

And assuming that Fletcher - no matter if you like him or not - will continue to perform at the same level into the future is just plain silly.

We miss Tom Sestak, too, and if we had him at DT we'd be a lot better. Unfortunately, he's near my grandmother in the South Wales Cemetary.

It's not crying about players who are gone- it's trying to figure out how the loss of a player will affect our team. And it's a player who left a couple of months ago, not a couple of decades ago.

[TedMock]

What in the world is your DEFINITION of a good cover two MLB?

He lead the team in tackles.. MORE IMPORTANTLY, He led the team in INTERCEPTIONS, DEFENSIVE touchdowns and had more passes defended than ANYONE in the secondary other than Clements.. What the hell more do you want from your middle linebacker in a cover two?

As for tackles for losses.. A MLB cover two has more zone pass coverage responsibility, so he reacts more than attacks the line.. and by the way, he STILL had more tackles for losses than ANYONE on the team..

C'mon man. get real

What you say here is true, but we don't run a cover-2 every down. The open knock on Fletcher was that he wasn't a downhill LB. He's fast and he reacts very well. No doubt about it. If Poz or Crowell, or anybody else makes 40 fewer tackles this season that Fletcher did it's not any indication that Fletcher was better. Maybe they ask Poz, for i.e., to play downhill as soon as he suspect run. If that means he's making tackle 2-3 yard up field and/or taking on fullbacks and guards so others can make the tackles then we will not be behind by any stretch.

I like Fletcher, but I would gladly give his TD's back if it meant more opportunities to keep the defense off the field and more TD's for the offense instead. The guy made big-plays and I do feel that he was underrated a few years ago. Not last year though. NOBODY on our defense is underrated. If anything I think the local fans grossly overrate certain players. Schobel, McGee, etc. McGee is a solid number 2 corner who got burned a lot last season. Schobel is a solid pass rusher who gets his sacks in chunks then disappears for a couple of weeks. He's also never been able to hold his ground when rushed at. He is good, however, in pursuit on runs away from him where he's had several tackles for a loss. I think he's good and he deserves to start, but I think he's overrated by the local fans. Pat Kearney, John Abraham are similar in my opinion. Back to Fletch - good, under appreciated at times, not irreplaceable.

[madness]

I saw a kid chase the bus to no avail on the way to work Friday. I told him he'll miss it more then he'll admit.

I wondered if he appreciated that wonderful insight I gave him but the dirty look he gave me suggested probably not. It reminded me of the same look I had when I saw the title of this thread.

[Hammertime]

Im not knocking POZ>

GOod chance in time he can be a hell of a LB.

I'm just saying Fletch will be missed, especially in the short term.. Some People dont want to admit it though.

Two months ago Poz would have been the worst mistake the Bills could have made, according to you.

Do you sit around and think of ways to be pessimistic about the future Bills season all the time or just most of the time?

[OpIv37]

Two months ago Poz would have been the worst mistake the Bills could have made, according to you.

Do you sit around and think of ways to be pessimistic about the future Bills season all the time or just most of the time?

um, he never said Poz would be a huge mistake- he said Poz would be a huge mistake at 12.

Considering we got Poz in the second round, apparently a lot of NFL GM's agreed with him.

[feldspar]

You didn't miss Pat Williams in 2005? I sure as hell did.

Of course I missed Pat Williams. Letting him go was one of the worst moves I'm ever seen, and it killed us. I mean, I can see the logic behind all of our moves this year, whether I agree with them or not...and I do basically agree...except maybe Clements should have been slapped with the franchise tag without any "gentleman's agreement." Anyway, I digress... I didn't see any logic whatsoever in letting Phat Pat go. It wasn't money or character or bad play, etc. We needed his phat ass. I actually liked it when Pat Williams said that they are stupid up in Buffalo. They don't know what they are doing. I thought he was right about that.

[Michael82]

Fletcher's leadership is what we will be missing, that's it. He wasn't a good fit in this defense and he piled up a ton of tackles, but many of them were 10 - 20 yards downfield. :ill:

[clumping platelets]

I disagree that he'll be missed............I want a MLB that stops a RB after 1 yd BEFORE the 1st down not 1 yd AFTER the 1st down

[Spiderweb]

I believe his spirit, professionalism, tenacity, and his leadership may be missed. Not to slight the numbers he put up, but he was the MLB of one of the worst run defenses in the league last year. Even if he did make some nice plays against the pass, the Bills brass looked at his cost, his age, and where we ranked against the run. Like Spikes, too much $$$ for not enough return. This sealed his fate.

Missed? Sure, he was reasonably well liked, but time marches on.....his time to leave had come. I think I may miss Spikes more, especially if Walker "walks".

[djjimkelly]

fletcher sucks! and he will be forgotten very quickly hes not a difference maker hes a band aid type of player. his picks last year were becuz of the cover 2 scheme in fact i think if he was a bigger man stats like interceptions could have been higher even though he did lay out for a few3 picks. bottom line hes the same size as me and i dont have NFL size

[Earthquake Enyart]

Fletcher was too small to shoot a gap to stuff a running play.

[OpIv37]

I hear a lot of reasons why Fletcher sucks.

What I don't hear is why people believe a rookie can step in and take over for Fletch from Day 1. Don't get me wrong- I like Poz and I think at this point he has more physical talent than Fletch. Down the road- maybe even late in this season- Poz will be good for us. But to expect him to come in and make up for Fletcher's experience with no noticable drop in play from game 1 is just naive.

Also, I love it how Fletcher is "underrated and consistently snubbed for the Pro Bowl" when he's on the Bills, but "overrated and undersized" the second he leaves.

[HHURRICANE]

The Jags game was on last night! After watching the game I've changed my mind and decided this thread has no merit.

He got burned several times (including a TD) for being out of position and on 4th and 13, with less than a minute to go, Girard decides to scarmble for 14 yards and Fletcher decides to go air born and missed him allowing the first down which led to tie'n up the game

The sad part on that play was Larry Tripplett was getting double teamed and he made an attempt to get Girard which slowed him enough for Fletcher.

I'll take Poz.

[madness]

I hear a lot of reasons why Fletcher sucks.

What I don't hear is why people believe a rookie can step in and take over for Fletch from Day 1. Don't get me wrong- I like Poz and I think at this point he has more physical talent than Fletch. Down the road- maybe even late in this season- Poz will be good for us. But to expect him to come in and make up for Fletcher's experience with no noticable drop in play from game 1 is just naive.

Also, I love it how Fletcher is "underrated and consistently snubbed for the Pro Bowl" when he's on the Bills, but "overrated and undersized" the second he leaves.

"You try to make the best decision you can for the football team," Thompson said. "There's always a tradeoff with rookies. If they're the better players and better athletes, then that's a plus. They'll probably make more mistakes than a veteran, but we have to be honest: Veterans don't always play perfect games."

[OpIv37]

"You try to make the best decision you can for the football team," Thompson said. "There's always a tradeoff with rookies. If they're the better players and better athletes, then that's a plus. They'll probably make more mistakes than a veteran, but we have to be honest: Veterans don't always play perfect games."

You bolded the wrong part. No one's saying vets are perfect, but apparently some don't understand that rookies make rookie mistakes.

[jmb1099]

The business part of the game is a hard thing to deal with sometimes. There is such a lack of loyalty between players and owners...its sickening.
I will miss Fletch because of his fire for the game. He may not have always played perfectly, but he always showed up.
That being said, the money he wanted during the declining years was unreasonable. Poz will take his lumps, there is no question, but it is reasonable to expect him to continually improve. My prediction is that by the end of the season no one will miss Fletch. Still, I will always appreciate his contributions while he was here. I wish him no ill.

[PECKERWOOD]

MLB is a position in which a rookie can step in right away and be successful. Come on people, it's not like we drafted Posz to play QB. Look at what DeMeco Ryans did as a rookie. He had 155 tackles 3.5 sacks and an INT. Hell, you could even look at what Odell Thurman did his rookie season, he had 98 tackles 1.5 sacks and 5 INT. If Posz can meet some where in the middle between those 2 players rookie years then I feel like brining in Posz and letting go of Fletch was worth it. I liked Fletch while in Buffalo but Posluszny is going to be an upgrade over Fletch. I understand the offseason is long but I think that you ( Pat Moran ) are starting threads like this to keep us entertained.

[OpIv37]

MLB is a position in which a rookie can step in right away and be successful. Come on people, it's not like we drafted Posz to play QB. Look at what DeMeco Ryans did as a rookie. He had 155 tackles 3.5 sacks and an INT. Hell, you could even look at what Odell Thurman did his rookie season, he had 98 tackles 1.5 sacks and 5 INT. If Posz can meet some where in the middle between those 2 players rookie years then I feel like brining in Posz and letting go of Fletch was worth it. I liked Fletch while in Buffalo but Posluszny is going to be an upgrade over Fletch. I understand the offseason is long but I think that you ( Pat Moran ) are starting threads like this to keep us entertained.

The Tampa 2 requires the MLB to drop back in pass protection in the middle of the field AND to come up in run support, meaning that play recognition must be superior. Generally speaking, NFL offenses are more complicated and better at disguising plays than college offenses. That's the kind of experience that someone like Fletcher brings and a rookie doesn't have.

Now, I'm confident that Poz can learn it, but realistically I also expect him to make some mistakes in the meantime. It might take him a full year, it might take him 8 games, maybe we'll get lucky and it will take him 4. Either way, it's just not realistic to think experience won't be missed on the field, at least in the short term.

[PECKERWOOD]

The Tampa 2 requires the MLB to drop back in pass protection in the middle of the field AND to come up in run support, meaning that play recognition must be superior. Generally speaking, NFL offenses are more complicated and better at disguising plays than college offenses. That's the kind of experience that someone like Fletcher brings and a rookie doesn't have.

Now, I'm confident that Poz can learn it, but realistically I also expect him to make some mistakes in the meantime. It might take him a full year, it might take him 8 games, maybe we'll get lucky and it will take him 4. Either way, it's just not realistic to think experience won't be missed on the field, at least in the short term.


The Tampa 2 requires the MLB to drop back in pass protection in the middle of the field AND to come up in run support, meaning that play recognition must be superior. Generally speaking, NFL offenses are more complicated and better at disguising plays than college offenses. That's the kind of experience that someone like Fletcher brings and a rookie doesn't have.

Odell Thurman did quite well in Cinci.

You do realize that Posz played on a defense very similar to the Tampa 2 at PSU, right?? Posz is no stranger when it comes to play recognition and dropping back in coverage. I'm just trying to point out that typically the transition for LB's into the NFL is a very easy transition. Just like learning anything new there will be a slight learning curve but Posz should be an upgrade over Fletcher. If Keith Ellison can step in and can outplay TKO last year then I am confident that Posluszny can step in and do the same thing in Fletchers place.

[Bling]

Way to backup your opinion with facts. Another good poster by patmoran.

[BillsFever21]

This is just another case of certain fans that think every player on the team is better then they really are even if they aren't good but once they leave Buffalo they are automatically a pile of crap and never did anything while in Buffalo.

Fletcher was a great player and is in the Top 5 or so in tackles every season for a reason. He was also a great leader. He was loved for years when he came here but like normal once him or another player is gone they automatically turn into a pile of dung.


You know, I can certainly buy into fans being excited about some of the young talent on this team. As long as Wilson does the right thing over the next few off-seasons, this team could be solid for the forseeable future.
But what really gets under my skin is the way Fletcher was dissed when he left, and how "overated" he suddenly became.

To say this team won't miss FLetcher over the next 1-2 years is absolutely idiotic. They'll miss Clements obviously, but paying that contract would be dumb. But they should've kept Fletcher, even if they drafted Poz as well.
Look at these numbers.. Still don't think Fletcher will be missed?

* More than half of our total team interceptions last season (13) were made by Fletcher (4) and Clements (3)

* We ran back two interceptions for TD's last season. One was by Fletcher. The other one? By Clements

* People say FLetcher made all his tackles 7-yards down the field. Maybe so, but guess who led the team in tackles for losses last season? Nope, not a defensive linemen like it should be. It was London Fletcher (5).

* Fletcher had more passes defended in coverage last year than any Buffalo Bill on the team except for.. Nate Clements. Fletch (14) had more passes defended than starting cornerback Terrence McGee (11).

* Only one player scored multiple touchdowns defenisvely last season. It was Fletcher.

That's just stats. He's one of the few actual leaders on this team. This guy will be missed dearly, whether you want to admit it or not.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Great Leader?

Where was he when Sam Adams went after manboobs?

How many games did we win with the great leader?

Gimme a break.

[OpIv37]

Great Leader?

Where was he when Sam Adams went after manboobs?

How many games did we win with the great leader?

Gimme a break.

you can't make chicken salad with chicken ****.

And the D was #2 in the league for two consecutive years when he was here.

And what fan DIDN'T want to go after manboobs?

[feldspar]

I'll tell you one thing I won't miss, and that's calling him Fletcher-Baker.

Honestly, I don't think that I called him that once.

Didn't he recently change his name back to just plain Fletcher?

[trapezeus]

he was great at the time. but with his contract up, and what he would be paid and where he is in age, he would be an overrated signing. his contract isn't needed for a team trying to build on youth.

He was great when he was here, but his time to succeed with 2003 2004 seasons. and the team didn't do it. So we had to move on since his age was a big problem for a young team.

[HHURRICANE]

you can't make chicken salad with chicken ****.

And the D was #2 in the league for two consecutive years when he was here.

And what fan DIDN'T want to go after manboobs?

This is a case where the stats don't tell the whole story. I watched our #2 D and they weren't invicnible by any means.