AFC EAST PREVIEW

[YardRat]

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/story/90014.html



New England

Keygains: LB Adalius Thomas (Ravens), WR Randy Moss (Raiders), WR Donte Stallworth (Eagles), WR Wes Welker (Dolphins), CB Tory James (Bengals), TE Kyle Brady (Jaguars), RB Sammy Morris (Dolphins), WR Kelley Washington (Bengals), FS Brandon Meriweather (Miami).

Key losses: TE Daniel Graham (Broncos), LB Tully Banta-Cain (Niners).

Breakdown: The Pats addressed their aging linebacking corps by giving Thomas $20 million in guaranteed money. He’s a versatile 270- pounder. Mark him down for 10 sacks, at least. The sorry wideout corps was overhauled. Moss, 30, aims to regain his All-Pro form. Welker had 67 catches for Miami last year and is a star return man. Stallworth is a firstround talent who averaged 19 yards a catch for the Eagles last year. He should be good in the red zone. Washington did little in four years with the Bengals. Kyle Brady, 35, is a blocker who isn’t an upgrade over Graham.

Questions: The defense could not stop the Colts last year. Has it gotten much better? Yes, Thomas is a stud. But the middle backers are getting slower. Tedy Bruschi and Mike Vrabel will be 34 and 32, respectively. Junior Seau, 38, may return. Will CB Asante Samuel have his head on straight due to the franchise tag? How fast can Meriweather catch on?

N.Y. Jets

Key additions: RB Thomas Jones (Bears), CB Darrelle Revis (Pittsburgh), LB David Harris (Michigan), DE Kenyon Coleman (Cowboys).

Key departures: RB Kevan Barlow (Steelers).

Breakdown: The Jets went 10-6 and made the playoffs last year despite an offense that ranked 25th and a defense that ranked 20th. Desperate to upgrade at corner, the Jets traded up to get Revis, who should start opposite Andre Dyson. Jones should help a running game that ranked 30th in yards per rush. The Jets are counting on a lot of improvement from within.

Questions: Starting DE Kimo von Oelhoffen enters his 14th year and is showing his age. So Coleman was signed. He was decent in Dallas last year, but is he any better than a third or fourth end? Can Harris beat out Eric Barton right away at inside backer? Does the Harris pick mean Anthony Schlegel, a third-round pick last year, is a bust? Can G Pete Kendall stay healthy? Can Dewayne Robertson get more comfortable at nose tackle, which isn’t his natural position?

Buffalo

Key additions: G Derrick Dockery (Redskins), T Langston Walker (Raiders), RB Marshawn Lynch (California), LB Paul Posluszny (Penn State), DT Darwin Walker (Eagles), G Jason Whittle (Vikings).

Key departures: RB Willis McGahee (Ravens), CB Nate Clements (Niners), LB London Fletcher (Redskins), LB Takeo Spikes (Eagles).

Breakdown: The Bills think that improving the offensive line will finally lift an offense that ranked 30th last year. Dockery is a road grader. They like Walker’s light feet and think he wasn’t the problem in Oakland. Lynch and Posluszny were impressive draft picks but they are filling the shoes of two good players. The Bills are counting on a lot of improvement from within.

Questions: Will continuity on offense help J.P. Losman take another step forward? Will fewer maximumprotection calls make the receivers and tight ends more productive? Can DT John McCargo have a good camp? Can Ashton Youboty win the starting corner job? Will Walker, who wants a new contract, hold out for long? How much better can young players like Jason Peters, Donte Whitner, Ko Simpson, Keith Ellison, Duke Preston and Kevin Everett get?

Miami

Key arrivals: LB Joey Porter (Steelers), TE David Martin (Packers), K Jay Feeley (Giants), WR Ted Ginn (Ohio State), QB John Beck (Brigham Young).

Key departures: WR Wes Welker (Patriots), DE Kevin Carter (Bucs), TE Randy McMichael (Rams), K Olindo Mare (Saints).

Breakdown: The Dolphins bitterly turned the page on Nick Saban — or Satan, as Fish fans call him — and hired Cam Cameron as coach and Randy Mueller as general manager. Neither has ever won big. Expectations have never been lower in South Florida. Cameron has a good but aging defense and a Ground Zero offense. Fixing the offensive line and finding a franchise quarterback look like long-term projects.

Questions: Who plays quarterback? Will the Fish acquire Trent Green? Will Daunte Culpepper be cut? Either way, it seems Beck, the secondround pick, eventually will be the man. Can Miami win with an offensive line that reads, left to right, Vernon Carey, Chris Liwienski, rookie Samson Satele, Rex Hadnot and L.J. Shelton? Can Matt Roth take over for Carter? How easy will it be for Bills fans to get tickets to the Nov. 11 game in South Florida?

[HHURRICANE]

Feel the Pain:

Miami
Key arrivals: LB Joey Porter (Steelers), TE David Martin (Packers), K Jay Feeley (Giants), WR Ted Ginn (Ohio State), QB John Beck (Brigham Young).
Key departures: WR Wes Welker (Patriots), DE Kevin Carter (Bucs), TE Randy McMichael (Rams), K Olindo Mare (Saints).
Breakdown: The Dolphins bitterly turned the page on Nick Saban — or Satan, as Fish fans call him — and hired Cam Cameron as coach and Randy Mueller as general manager. Neither has ever won big. Expectations have never been lower in South Florida. Cameron has a good but aging defense and a Ground Zero offense. Fixing the offensive line and finding a franchise quarterback look like long-term projects.
Questions: Who plays quarterback? Will the Fish acquire Trent Green? Will Daunte Culpepper be cut? Either way, it seems Beck, the secondround pick, eventually will be the man. Can Miami win with an offensive line that reads, left to right, Vernon Carey, Chris Liwienski, rookie Samson Satele, Rex Hadnot and L.J. Shelton? Can Matt Roth take over for Carter? How easy will it be for Bills fans to get tickets to the Nov. 11 game in South Florida? NEXT: AFC North.

[juice]

The Bills "KEY DEPARTURE" players were probably the best 4 players on the team over the past 4 years.. replacing seasoned players with youth is a important but one has to wonder who the leaders in the lockeroom will be.

[feelthepain]

HHURRICANE,


Buffalo

Key additions: G Derrick Dockery (Redskins), T Langston Walker (Raiders), RB Marshawn Lynch (California), LB Paul Posluszny (Penn State), DT Darwin Walker (Eagles), G Jason Whittle (Vikings).

Key departures: RB Willis McGahee (Ravens), CB Nate Clements (Niners), LB London Fletcher (Redskins), LB Takeo Spikes (Eagles).

Breakdown: The Bills think that improving the offensive line will finally lift an offense that ranked 30th last year. Dockery is a road grader. They like Walker’s light feet and think he wasn’t the problem in Oakland. Lynch and Posluszny were impressive draft picks but they are filling the shoes of two good players. The Bills are counting on a lot of improvement from within.

Questions: Will continuity on offense help J.P. Losman take another step forward? Will fewer maximumprotection calls make the receivers and tight ends more productive? Can DT John McCargo have a good camp? Can Ashton Youboty win the starting corner job? Will Walker, who wants a new contract, hold out for long? How much better can young players like Jason Peters, Donte Whitner, Ko Simpson, Keith Ellison, Duke Preston and Kevin Everett get?

[HHURRICANE]

HHURRICANE,



I'm not dellusional on where our team is at.

Save me the rebuttal and give me an honest prediction of what Miami's record is going to be this year.

[SABURZFAN]

give me an honest prediction of what Miami's record is going to be this year.



4-12

[Jan Reimers]

The Bills "KEY DEPARTURE" players were probably the best 4 players on the team over the past 4 years.. replacing seasoned players with youth is a important but one has to wonder who the leaders in the lockeroom will be.
juice, do you realize that Spikes was a shadow of his former self due to the Achilles tendon; Fletcher is small, slowing and pushing 33; and McGahee had fewer than 1,000 yards rushing, a lousy yards-per-carry average and an even worse attitude?

And that when you haven't made the playoffs in 7 years, it just might be time to go in a new direction?

[SABURZFAN]

juice, do you realize that Spikes was a shadow of his former self due to the Achilles tendon; Fletcher is small, slowing and pushing 33; and McGahee had fewer than 1,000 yards rushing, a lousy yards-per-carry average and an even worse attitude?

And that when you haven't made the playoffs in 7 years, it just might be time to go in a new direction?



no doubt.i hated to see fletcher go but business is business.he did a great job when he was here and that's all you can ask for.

[feelthepain]

I'm not dellusional on where our team is at.

Save me the rebuttal and give me an honest prediction of what Miami's record is going to be this year.

So because I think the Dolphins are better then the Bills, I'm delusional?? Miami will be better then they were last year, is my prediction.

[feelthepain]

juice, do you realize that Spikes was a shadow of his former self due to the Achilles tendon; Fletcher is small, slowing and pushing 33; and McGahee had fewer than 1,000 yards rushing, a lousy yards-per-carry average and an even worse attitude?

And that when you haven't made the playoffs in 7 years, it just might be time to go in a new direction?

It must be nice to claim improvement without playing a game, while everyone else has to play before they get credit....funny how that works.

[ublinkwescore]

So because I think the Dolphins are better then the Bills, I'm delusional?? Miami will be better then they were last year, is my prediction.

You are delusional - plain and simple regarding the Dolphins better than the Bills comment. I know, you guys beat the bears, and the Pats or someone - I can't remember - and nor do I care - bottom line is this - we finished with a better record than you in our division, we finished with a better record than you period, and we swept you with a shut out in one victory, and in the other, our QB threw for only 83 yards and a TD - that alone would have been enough for us to beat you (assuming we make the extra point attempt).

And about Miami being better than they were last year - don't be surprised if you guys take a step back - I'm not saying you will necessarily, because it's kinda hard to sink to a new low when you've already hit rock bottom, but new coaches, new systems, lack of chemistry between coaches and players, etc... could more than likely mean you will take at least a step back before you take any forward.

but what do I know, I've only been watching my team do the above mentioned for a while.

If I were a dolphins fan, and I posted on here, I would seriously disown you.

[Mitchy moo]

So because I think the Dolphins are better then the Bills, I'm delusional?? Miami will be better then they were last year, is my prediction.

Do you feel the fins have done enough to now defeat the Bills? We handed it to you both games we played, so are the offseason moves you have made enough?

You have a new coach, no QB and an admittedly older D. I personally see a equal season to last year a dream scenario for your team. We also drew actual positive press from last year and got a monday night game at home. Think the league recognizes we're heading a different way?

[ublinkwescore]

It must be nice to claim improvement without playing a game, while everyone else has to play before they get credit....funny how that works.

Fine, I will go out on a limb right here, right now - Lynch will be more productive for us than Willis "Dances with footballs" McGayshe was, and Posluszny will be better than post-injury Spikes - plain and simple.

[feelthepain]

You are delusional - plain and simple regarding the Dolphins better than the Bills comment. I know, you guys beat the bears, and the Pats or someone - I can't remember - and nor do I care - bottom line is this - we finished with a better record than you in our division, we finished with a better record than you period, and we swept you with a shut out in one victory, and in the other, our QB threw for only 83 yards and a TD - that alone would have been enough for us to beat you (assuming we make the extra point attempt).

And about Miami being better than they were last year - don't be surprised if you guys take a step back - I'm not saying you will necessarily, because it's kinda hard to sink to a new low when you've already hit rock bottom, but new coaches, new systems, lack of chemistry between coaches and players, etc... could more than likely mean you will take at least a step back before you take any forward.

but what do I know, I've only been watching my team do the above mentioned for a while.

If I were a dolphins fan, and I posted on here, I would seriously disown you.

I think Bill fans are delusional, we have the better Defense....by light years. We added speed to offense and our QB position will be better this year. MM won't be calling the plays Cam Cameron will.

[ublinkwescore]

I think Bill fans are delusional, we have the better Defense....by light years. We added speed to offense and our QB position will be better this year. MM won't be calling the plays Cam Cameron will.

You mean that "better" Defense that can't hang with our 30th ranked O?

give me a break pal.

Also, our D shut your O out once, and gave up a total of 6 points to you guys last season.

You can not be serious.

[casdhf]

I think Bill fans are delusional, we have the better Defense....by light years. We added speed to offense and our QB position will be better this year. MM won't be calling the plays Cam Cameron will. You forgot to mention "we were swept by you last season."

[feelthepain]

Fine, I will go out on a limb right here, right now - Lynch will be more productive for us than Willis "Dances with footballs" McGayshe was, and Posluszny will be better than post-injury Spikes - plain and simple.

I expect nothing less from Bill fans. I can't say I'm surprised that whomever isn't a Bill anymore isn't as good as who is a Bill now....it should be the Bill fans fight song...."If you're gone you suck, if you're here you're the best"!! Like I said, Bill fans don't have to wait for games to be played, there team is automatically better cause the fans say so, but everyone else has to play the games before they get any credit. Every single day I can find a post here with this thinking form Bill fans.

[feelthepain]

You forgot to mention "we were swept by you last season."

So how does that help you this year?

[feelthepain]

You mean that "better" Defense that can't hang with our 30th ranked O?

give me a break pal.

Also, our D shut your O out once, and gave up a total of 6 points to you guys last season.

You can not be serious.

Is this last year??

[gil]

It must be nice to claim improvement without playing a game, while everyone else has to play before they get credit....funny how that works.


So because I think the Dolphins are better then the Bills, I'm delusional?? Miami will be better then they were last year, is my prediction.

lol

[TigerJ]

The Bills "KEY DEPARTURE" players were probably the best 4 players on the team over the past 4 years.. replacing seasoned players with youth is a important but one has to wonder who the leaders in the lockeroom will be.

They were not the four best players on the team last season. One can make a strong case that Clements was one of the top four players on the team last season. McGahee and Spikes were far from it. Granted Spikes had a good excuse in that he was still feeling the lingering effects of his achilles rupture, but his play was ordinary none the less. Fletcher was very productive, and as good in pass defense as he's ever been. He was still a liability in run defense and the Bills need better run defense from their middle linebacker.

I think Fletcher and Spikes were strong figures in the locker room. I don't think Clements was, and I know McGahee wasn't. I think Losman is ready to step into a leadership position on offense, and I think Crowell is probably the guy on defense. I think eventually (in a couple years) Posluszny will be a leader, and maybe Whitner. Robert Royal is a pretty good leadership guy in the lockerroom, I think. He'll take more of a role this season.

[feelthepain]

lol

Yeah know whats funny about that? I'm not the one saying the Fins will be better, but the Bills won't. Learn how to read!

And if you could read, you'd see that I was asked to make a prediction.

[ublinkwescore]

I expect nothing less from Bill fans. I can't say I'm surprised that whomever isn't a Bill anymore isn't as good as who is a Bill now....it should be the Bill fans fight song...."If you're gone you suck, if you're here you're the best"!! Like I said, Bill fans don't have to wait for games to be played, there team is automatically better cause the fans say so, but everyone else has to play the games before they get any credit. Every single day I can find a post here with this thinking form Bill fans.

Will you look at the freakin facts here, PLEASE - Spikes may not ever be the same player he was from 03-05 - yeah, he showed some flashes at the end of last season, but they were far from enough to have any one of normal football competence totally convinced. Drafting Posluszny just got us a hell of a lot younger, and a hell of a lot better since he will probably be manning Fletcher's inside spot while Crowell or Ellison will take Spike's spot - that remains to be seen - but I'd bank on us being better on the inside position, with maybe a minor dropoff with whoever takes Takeo's spot (dropoff from pre-injury Spikes - not post-injury Spikes.

McGahee put on one great season for us (breaking the 1,000 yard mark in like 11 games for us or something like that) in 04, in 05, he was solid, but not great and in 06, he just turned into a mediocre AT BEST back - 3.4, 3.8 YPC? please we can do so much better.

Also, what the hell happened to McGahee's monster straight arm? I used to love watching him put defenders on their @$$es, but evidently, either he doesn't care enough to fight for as much as he can take, or he's already started to deteriorate, and doesn't feel confident that he can still do it.

[feelthepain]

Will you look at the freakin facts here, PLEASE - Spikes may not ever be the same player he was from 03-05 - yeah, he showed some flashes at the end of last season, but they were far from enough to have any one of normal football competence totally convinced. Drafting Posluszny just got us a hell of a lot younger, and a hell of a lot better since he will probably be manning Fletcher's inside spot while Crowell or Ellison will take Spike's spot - that remains to be seen - but I'd bank on us being better on the inside position, with maybe a minor dropoff with whoever takes Takeo's spot (dropoff from pre-injury Spikes - not post-injury Spikes.

McGahee put on one great season for us (breaking the 1,000 yard mark in like 11 games for us or something like that) in 04, in 05, he was solid, but not great and in 06, he just turned into a mediocre AT BEST back - 3.4, 3.8 YPC? please we can do so much better.

Also, what the hell happened to McGahee's monster straight arm? I used to love watching him put defenders on their @$$es, but evidently, either he doesn't care enough to fight for as much as he can take, or he's already started to deteriorate, and doesn't feel confident that he can still do it.

Like I said if you leave the Bills you suck, if you join the Bills you're great. You can write it any way you like, that's basically what you're saying. You lose 4 key starters, yet somehow with rookies you're better without taking a snap. Go figure.

[!Papacrunk!]

The aging defense thing gets me, with my rough math I came to an average age for the defense at 25-26. The oldest people on the team range from situational DT Keith Traylor who fills in at the whopping age of 38 (finished with 36 tackles, 28 solo, 4 sacks and 1 forced fumble) Zach Thomas age 33 (ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY FIVE TACKLES, 3 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 1 interception) Jason Taylor age 32 (62 tackles, 13 and a half sacks, nine forced fumbles, 2 INTs returned for TDs and one NFL defensive MVP award) and Vonnie Holliday age 31 (66 tackles and 7 sacks.) Those are the old guys that were supposed to have stopped being productive a while ago correct? The guys that weren't supposed to be able to make the transition to the 3-4? Even at half their production, it's still a heck of a lot better than people that are a lot younger IMO.

[feelthepain]

The aging defense thing gets me, with my rough math I came to an average age for the defense at 25-26. The oldest people on the team range from situational DT Keith Traylor who fills in at the whopping age of 36 (finished with 36 tackles, 28 solo, 4 sacks and 1 forced fumble) Zach Thomas age 33 (ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY FIVE TACKLES, 3 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 1 interception) Jason Taylor age 32 (62 tackles, 13 and a half sacks, nine forced fumbles, 2 INTs returned for TDs and one NFL defensive MVP award) and Vonnie Holliday age 31 (66 tackles and 7 sacks.) Those are the old guys that were supposed to have stopped being productive a while ago correct? The guys that weren't supposed to be able to make the transition to the 3-4? Even at half their production, it's still a heck of a lot better than people that are a lot younger IMO.

Typical of the media to comment without doing research, bascially write what you hear, not what you know. Sorta tells you how little the guy that wrote it knows.

[Crisis]

Like I said if you leave the Bills you suck, if you join the Bills you're great. You can write it any way you like, that's basically what you're saying. You lose 4 key starters, yet somehow with rookies you're better without taking a snap. Go figure.

That's exactly how you are with the Dolphins.

[ublinkwescore]

Like I said if you leave the Bills you suck, if you join the Bills you're great. You can write it any way you like, that's basically what you're saying. You lose 4 key starters, yet somehow with rookies you're better without taking a snap. Go figure.

Notice I haven't bashed Clements - he's still a very solid corner - though he can be inconsistent.

I still hope the 9ers suck though - and that Clements has an off-year, or sucks for them - hopefully, it will start a much needed precedent for teams to stop offering big names so much money every offseason - but I doubt that will happen.

[HHURRICANE]

FTP, If Miami is better than Buffalo than just give us the prediction on the record.

Why won't you do it?

[feelthepain]

FTP, If Miami is better than Buffalo than just give us the prediction on the record.

Why won't you do it?

Because I, unlike you, am not psychic. I can't predict injuries or who will have a great year and who will have a bad year, I can guess, but what does that prove? Nothing!!. I think the Dolphins are better because of the talent, experience and coaching they have, it's that simple.

[ublinkwescore]

Is this last year??

No, it's not - but both of our teams will still have a lot of players that facilitated those accomplishments (us) and shortcomings (you guys).

Good Day!!

[feelthepain]

No, it's not - but both of our teams will still have a lot of players that facilitated those accomplishments (us) and shortcomings (you guys).

Good Day!!

Dreams are wonderful aren't they? Problem is, you'll have to wake up someday.

[Jan Reimers]

Why argue with, or even read the posts of ftp?

I feel 100% better with him on my Ignore List.

[feelthepain]

Why argue with, or even read the posts of ftp?

I feel 100% better with him on my Ignore List.

So do I!

[ublinkwescore]

FTP sometimes forgets to breathe - I think that would explain his mental shortcomings.

[ublinkwescore]

Dreams are wonderful aren't they?

If you say so.

[feelthepain]

FTP sometimes forgets to breathe - I think that would explain his mental shortcomings.

At least I have an excuse!

[feelthepain]

If you say so.
Yeah, lets us know when you wake up.

[feldspar]

The Bills "KEY DEPARTURE" players were probably the best 4 players on the team over the past 4 years.. replacing seasoned players with youth is a important but one has to wonder who the leaders in the lockeroom will be.

Buffalo's four best players:

Lee Evans
Aaron Schobel
Brian Moorman
Jason Peters

This will change soon because we have young players that will get better. Pretty soon it'll be a lot harder to make a "top four players list" because we'll have a lot of good to great players...Whitner, Simpson, Youboty, McCargo, Posluszny, Lynch...at least 2 of these are going to be just fantastic, maybe more.

Spikes hasn't been a factor for 2 years.
Fletcher was great to have, but he's getting old and doesn't fit the system.
McGahee...don't get me started. I'd rather have Lynch.
Clements we will miss.

Out of the four departures, Clements is the only one I'm sorry to see go. If the 4 departures didn't depart, Clements would probably be the only one I'd put on the list of Buffalo's 4 best players. You can make an argument for Fletcher, but not McGahee or Spikes at this point. Spikes and Fletch weren't going to be the future of this ball club. Wait and see what happens with Miami. Their defense is good, but they are getting old. By the time they fix the offense, they'll need a new defense. I like it.

I'm not worried about who the new leaders are going to be. It'll happen naturally.

[feelthepain]

Feel the Pain:

Miami
Key arrivals: LB Joey Porter (Steelers), TE David Martin (Packers), K Jay Feeley (Giants), WR Ted Ginn (Ohio State), QB John Beck (Brigham Young).
Key departures: WR Wes Welker (Patriots), DE Kevin Carter (Bucs), TE Randy McMichael (Rams), K Olindo Mare (Saints).
Breakdown: The Dolphins bitterly turned the page on Nick Saban — or Satan, as Fish fans call him — and hired Cam Cameron as coach and Randy Mueller as general manager. Neither has ever won big. Expectations have never been lower in South Florida. Cameron has a good but aging defense and a Ground Zero offense. Fixing the offensive line and finding a franchise quarterback look like long-term projects.
Questions: Who plays quarterback? Will the Fish acquire Trent Green? Will Daunte Culpepper be cut? Either way, it seems Beck, the secondround pick, eventually will be the man. Can Miami win with an offensive line that reads, left to right, Vernon Carey, Chris Liwienski, rookie Samson Satele, Rex Hadnot and L.J. Shelton? Can Matt Roth take over for Carter? How easy will it be for Bills fans to get tickets to the Nov. 11 game in South Florida? NEXT: AFC North.


BTW, this is from a Buffalo newspaper.....I think it's clearly a bias viewpoint. So ofcourse you agree with it.

[feldspar]

BTW, this is from a Buffalo newspaper.....I think it's clearly a bias viewpoint. So ofcourse you agree with it.
Tell me which part is not accurate?

Which parts of this reflects a bias?

[HHURRICANE]

Because I, unlike you, am not psychic. I can't predict injuries or who will have a great year and who will have a bad year, I can guess, but what does that prove? Nothing!!. I think the Dolphins are better because of the talent, experience and coaching they have, it's that simple.

This is total BS. Your team is better but you can't justify it or even give a number of wins.

I can tell you one thing for sure. Buffalo wins 7 games for sure. Is Miami winning 8 games?

[feelthepain]

Tell me which part is not accurate?

The Dolphins aging Defense is not accurate.




Which parts of this reflects a bias?



Miami finished 20th overall on offense the Bills finished 28th, he referes to Miami's O as ground zero, but has no such less then promising words for the Bills offense.

[feelthepain]

This is total BS. Your team is better but you can't justify it or even give a number of wins.

I can tell you one thing for sure. Buffalo wins 7 games for sure. Is Miami winning 8 games?


Total BS?? Reality check.......you're not psychic!!!!!!!!!!!

[gr8slayer]

The Dolphins aging Defense is not accurate.





Miami finished 20th overall on offense the Bills finished 28th, he referes to Miami's O as ground zero, but has no such less then promising words for the Bills offense.
Yet we still dominated the Dolphins and their "Super Bowl Team" twice. You all really suck in that case.

[feldspar]

The Dolphins aging Defense is not accurate.


Here are the current starters on your D-line according to NFL.com. I'm sure they aren't biased when they report players' ages:

Jason Taylor - 33
Keith Traylor - 38
Vonnie Holiday - 31 1/2
Matt Roth - 26 1/2

The average age for players on your defensive line is 32.25. That is considered old by any NFL standard.

Here are your star linebackers:
Zach Thomas - 34
Joey Porter - 30

Your secondary is the only place where you are relatively young, but how good is your secondary, anyway?

Face it dude, and feel the pain because all of your best defensive players are on the wrong side of 30.

[feelthepain]

Buffalo's four best players:

Lee Evans
Aaron Schobel
Brian Moorman
Jason Peters

Was this the same list at the end of last season?

[feldspar]

Was this the same list at the end of last season?

You can find the answer to that question by reading the rest of my post.

[feelthepain]

Here are the current starters on your D-line according to NFL.com. I'm sure they aren't biased when they report players' ages:

Jason Taylor - 33
Keith Traylor - 38
Vonnie Holiday - 31 1/2
Matt Roth - 26 1/2

Your average age for players on your defensive line is 32.25. That is considered old by any NFL standard.

Here are your star linebackers:
Zach Thomas - 34
Joey Porter - 30

Your secondary is the only place where you are relatively young, but how good is your secondary, anyway?

Face it dude, and feel the pain because all of your best defensive players are on the wrong side of 30.


Yes, but Miami has spent the last three drafts adding youth to the Defense. Maimi's starters might be older, but they're better then most of the players at their positions in the NFL, so they start. What does the age matter if you're the best at your position? Is their one single player on your Defense right now that's better then Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas or Joey Porter?? No! Just because you're younger doesn't make you better.

Miami has plenty of youth in the front seven waiting behind the probowlers, if we have a key injury on defense we have a lot of talent waiting their turn.. So to accuse Miami of aging Defense is a false statement.

[SquishDaFish]

FTP the Bills have a better O and Special Teams then Miami. Even the coaching is better. The only thing you have better right now is your defense THATS IT. And thats Getting OLD.

[feldspar]

Miami finished 20th overall on offense the Bills finished 28th, he referes to Miami's O as ground zero, but has no such less then promising words for the Bills offense.

you are the one that is biased. How is your QB situation looking? Do you actually think that your O-line is a good one?

Buffalo's biggest issue on offense has been the offenisve line, and it has been for years. We've addressed that this year.

What have you done for your offense that will help you this year? You lost McMichael and Welker and added Ted "the Gimp" Ginn...great first pick BTW.

Oh, yeah. I have to ask this again. How is your QB situation looking right now? It's not a good idea to have no idea about that this close to the season.

Again, how the o-line looking? It's going to be real important if you pick up the immobile Trent Green.

Be prepared to get swept by the Bills again this year.

[feldspar]

Yes, but Miami has spent the last three drafts adding youth to the Defense. Maimi's starters might be older, but they're better then most of the players at their positions in the NFL, so they start. What does the age matter if you're the best at your position? Is their one single player on your Defense right now that's better then Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas or Joey Porter?? No! Just because you're younger doesn't make you better.

Miami has plenty of youth in the front seven waiting behind the probowlers, if we have a key injury on defense we have a lot of talent waiting their turn.. So to accuse Miami of aging Defense is a false statement.

Rationalize away, my friend.

Contradict yourself much?

See the bolded parts of your quote above.

your younger guys waiting to have a chance to start aren't as good as your starters, who are old. You said so yourself. Pretty soon your old guys are going to be too old, and will you be as good on D when the younger guys step in?

[gr8slayer]

you are the one that is biased. How is your QB situation looking? Do you actually think that your O-line is a good one?

Buffalo's biggest issue on offense has been the offenisve line, and it has been for years. We've addressed that this year.

What have you done for your offense that will help you this year? You lost McMichael and Welker and added Ted "the Gimp" Ginn...great first pick BTW.

Oh, yeah. I have to ask this again. How is your QB situation looking right now. It's not a good idea to have no idea about that this close to the season.

Again, how the o-line looking. It's going to be real important if you pick up the immobile Trent Green.

Be prepared to get swept by the Bills again this year.
You didn't know? Culpepper is still a top three QB in the league.

[!Papacrunk!]

Here are the current starters on your D-line according to NFL.com. I'm sure they aren't biased when they report players' ages:

Jason Taylor - 33
Keith Traylor - 38
Vonnie Holiday - 31 1/2
Matt Roth - 26 1/2

The average age for players on your defensive line is 32.25. That is considered old by any NFL standard.

Here are your star linebackers:
Zach Thomas - 34
Joey Porter - 30

Your secondary is the only place where you are relatively young, but how good is your secondary, anyway?

Face it dude, and feel the pain because all of your best defensive players are on the wrong side of 30.
By chance did you miss my post? Where did you get that Matt Roth is 26 1/2, he won't be turning 25 until this October: 10/14/82? I gathered my information from the roster on Miami's official site, as well as the Bills official site: the age of current players on the Bills roster, current age as of this post, the average comes to 25.1; the current players on the Dolphins roster, current ages as of this post, the average comes out to 26. :::edit::: the average is in reference to defense

[HHURRICANE]

By chance did you miss my post? Where did you get that Matt Roth is 26 1/2, he won't be turning 25 until this October: 10/14/82? I gathered my information from the roster on Miami's official site, as well as the Bills official site: the age of current players on the Bills roster, current age as of this post, the average comes to 25.1; the current players on the Dolphins roster, current ages as of this post, the average comes out to 26.

I think we are just talking about D and normally these aren't good ages for a team that is rebuilding.

[!Papacrunk!]

I think we are just talking about D and normally these aren't good ages for a team that is rebuilding.

I need to edit my post, because my numbers were in regards to each team's defense. I admit, I could be wrong, but those are the numbers I came to with the players currently on the defensive roster, ages as of today.

[feelthepain]

FTP the Bills have a better O and Special Teams then Miami. Even the coaching is better. The only thing you have better right now is your defense THATS IT. And thats Getting OLD.

Then Why did your O finish 28th in the league with no injuries and we finished 20 overall with backup Joey Harrington and MM?? Your ST is not better. Miami and Buffalo have about the same with ST's and our coaches are better. Dom Capers is one of the best DC in the league, Hudson houck is probably the best Oline coach in the league and Cam's Offe4nse has been one of the best the last 4 years he's also considered a top QB coach.

[feelthepain]

Rationalize away, my friend.

Contradict yourself much?

See the bolded parts of your quote above.

your younger guys waiting to have a chance to start aren't as good as your starters, who are old. You said so yourself. Pretty soon your old guys are going to be too old, and will you be as good on D when the younger guys step in?

Funny, I consider the age of the D as a whole not just JT,ZT, K.Traylor and Vonnie Holliday. You just refuse to see the whole picture don't you. I didn't contridict myself at all. Miami has experience and youth that's what makes them so good. But overall the Defense is getting younger not older.

[feldspar]

Funny, I consider the age of the D as a whole not just JT,ZT, K.Traylor and Vonnie Holliday. You just refuse to see the whole picture don't you. I didn't contridict myself at all. Miami has experience and youth that's what makes them so good. But overall the Defense is getting younger not older.

You should change your name to "denying the pain."

Wow. Besides Matt Roth, who?, you have an active defensive line that has an average age of over 34 years of age. I don't care what you say, that is your line, and again, it is old. The last time I checked, it all starts up front.

You are the one that refuses to see the whole picture. All of your star players on defense are on the wrong side of 30.

Please tell me specifically why I am wrong. Who is going to replace Jason Taylor, Keith Traylor, and V. Holliday...and when they do replace them, how is it that the quality of the defense won't suffer? Please tell me specifically, and please tell me now because I feel that you are up to your neck in excuses and rationalization.

Again, be specific. Otherwise, don't bother to reply. Which players are going to take over on your defensive line? That is where your bread and butter is, along with your linebackers, who are also getting old.

As of now, here is your argument: our d-line and linebackers are getting old, but we also have some young players on defense, so you can't call our defense old. Sorry, but that's BS. 3 years from now, your defensive line and linebackers will be on their way out the door.

Sorry, but I thought you did contradict yourself when you said that Miami's starters might be older, and then turned around and said that to accuse Miami of having an aging defense is a false statement.

Sorry to harp on this, but who is going to take over your defense when it gets too old...which will be any day now...

[feldspar]

By chance did you miss my post? Where did you get that Matt Roth is 26 1/2, he won't be turning 25 until this October: 10/14/82? I gathered my information from the roster on Miami's official site, as well as the Bills official site: the age of current players on the Bills roster, current age as of this post, the average comes to 25.1; the current players on the Dolphins roster, current ages as of this post, the average comes out to 26. :::edit::: the average is in reference to defense

Alright, why don't you just admit that your defense is getting older? All the facts support that.

I don't care if Matt Roth, who? is 12 years old. I did get Matt Roth's age wrong by 2 years, but his age is entirely beside the point; I wasn't focusing on that. Besides him, your starting defensive line is over 34 years old on average. I base these numbers on what these players' ages will be when the season starts. I think you'll find that there is no discrepancy with those numbers. Do you think that Zach Thomas and Jason Taylor are going to celebrate their birthdays together on the team 3-4 years from now? Do you think that they will continue to perform at their current levels forever?

If none of you Miami fans will concede that your star defensive players are getting old, I can't see any reason to talk to you any more. You will be being totally unreasonable. If the younger guys were better than the starters, then they would be starting, no? Therefore, you should see a drop-off of performance when your old guys retire or are traded...that is logic. If it's not logical tell me exactly why not...don't just say "yeah, we got young guys, too."

[YardRat]

I'll be interested to see the Herald's take on the division this year, specifically the Dolphins.

[justasportsfan]

MM won't be calling the plays Cam Cameron will. but according to her, MM was the 2nd coming of Wiess. Feeley wa the next Montana. Culppepper was the 2nd coming of... Culppecker. Bennie was the next , Munoz.

They always add a HOF every offseason as far as FTP is concerned. OP would love FTP comments on this thread. :snicker:

[gr8slayer]

but according to her, MM was the 2nd coming of Wiess. Feeley wa the next Montana. Culppepper was the 2nd coming of... Culppecker. Bennie was the next , Munoz.

They always add a HOF every offseason as far as FTP is concerned. OP would love FTP comments on this thread. :snicker:
It does seem like every single player the Dolphins add is an HOFer in STD's eyes.

[feelthepain]

You should change your name to "denying the pain."

Wow. Besides Matt Roth, who?, you have an active defensive line that has an average age of over 34 years of age. I don't care what you say, that is your line, and again, it is old. The last time I checked, it all starts up front.

You are the one that refuses to see the whole picture. All of your star players on defense are on the wrong side of 30.

Please tell me specifically why I am wrong. Who is going to replace Jason Taylor, Keith Traylor, and V. Holliday...and when they do replace them, how is it that the quality of the defense won't suffer? Please tell me specifically, and please tell me now because I feel that you are up to your neck in excuses and rationalization.

Again, be specific. Otherwise, don't bother to reply. Which players are going to take over on your defensive line? That is where your bread and butter is, along with your linebackers, who are also getting old.

As of now, here is your argument: our d-line and linebackers are getting old, but we also have some young players on defense, so you can't call our defense old. Sorry, but that's BS. 3 years from now, your defensive line and linebackers will be on their way out the door.

Sorry, but I thought you did contradict yourself when you said that Miami's starters might be older, and then turned around and said that to accuse Miami of having an aging defense is a false statement.

Sorry to harp on this, but who is going to take over your defense when it gets too old...which will be any day now...


DL:

Fred Evans: NT/DT
Steve Fifita: DT
Page Chase: DT
Rod Wright: DE/DT
Paul Soliai: NT/DT
Mkristo Bruce: DE
Abraham Wright: DE
Matt Roth: DE
Kevin Vickerson: DE

Now I realize since Miami isn't Buffalo, our young DP don't really count...cause you homers say so. But That's 8 Dlinemen we've drafted in the last three years, LIKE I SAID!!!

Now just because your Defense sucks, don't try to sluff off what your Defense is and try to find problems elswhere. I told you we aren't getting older, we're getting younger. YOU seem to be the one with blinders on, no real shock though. That's a lot of depth and talent just waiting in the wings for a chance, but when your young and sitting behind probowlers and MVP's you have no choice but to wait for a chance to play. For most people that's common sense they don't need it explained to them like they have never heard of the game of football.

[gr8slayer]

DL:

Fred Evans: NT/DT
Steve Fifita: DT
Page Chase: DT
Rod Wright: DE/DT
Paul Soliai: NT/DT
Mkristo Bruce: DE
Abraham Wright: DE
Matt Roth: DE
Kevin Vickerson: DE

Now I realize since Miami isn't Buffalo, our young DP don't really count...cause you homers say so. But That's 8 Dlinemen we've drafted in the last three years, LIKE I SAID!!!

Now just because your Defense sucks, don't try to sluff off what your Defense is and try to find problems elswhere. I told you we aren't getting older, we're getting younger. YOU seem to be the one with blinders on, no real shock though. That's a lot of depth and talent just waiting in the wings for a chance, but when your young and sitting behind probowlers and MVP's you have no choice but to wait for a chance to play. For most people that's common sense they don't need it explained to them like they have never heard of the game of football.
Our crappy Defense owned and destroyed you twice last year.

[mybills]

This thread is hilarious! :up:
Good job! :bf1:

[justasportsfan]

Our crappy Defense owned and destroyed you twice last year.
but that was LAST YEAR . It doesn't apply to this year.

ANything the dolphins did good last year like their D ranking will rollover to this year.


Anything good the BILLS did last year ( SWEEP) stays in last year but anything bad rolls over (run D) :coocoo: ...... :huh: come to think of it, he does sound like some bills fans here.

[gr8slayer]

but that was LAST YEAR . It doesn't apply to this year.

ANything the dolphins did good last year like their D ranking will rollover to this year. Anything good the bills did last year,, ( SWEEP) stays in last year but anything bad rolls over (run D) :coocoo:
Yeah and hey, they won the Super Bowl when dinosaurs roamed the earth and they never lost one because they are the perfect franchise, the alpha and the omega if you will.

Culpepper is like a cross between Dan Marino and Mike Vick. He is the off-spring of Chuck Norris and John Elway.

Bennie Anderson is a god.

Chris Chambers > Lee Evans

Mother Cleo says that Cleo Lemon will have ten SB rings by the end of the season.

Cam will lead the Dolphins to glory!

[Mr. Miyagi]

IMM won't be calling the plays Cam Cameron will.
Substitute "Cam Cameron" with "Saban" and you have the delusional fins fan from last year.

[gr8slayer]

Substitute "Cam Cameron" with "Saban" and you have the delusional fins fan from last year.
Hey, they were just joking when they said that Saban was going to lead them to a SB, they knew it wasn't true because Dolphin fans are the smartest fans on the planet.

[justasportsfan]

Substitute "Cam Cameron" with "Saban" and you have the delusional fins fan from last year.


FACT: Moolarkey is more proven than Cam Cameron as a HC.
FACT: Saban is more rpoven as a HC both in the NFL and College ranks.

Doesn't mean he'll be better or worse than the other 2 but, like FTP said about the bills, we'll have to wait and see but when it's the fish, they're already better :coocoo:

[gr8slayer]

FACT: Moolarkey is more proven than Cam Cameron as a HC.
FACT: Saban is more rpoven as a HC both in the NFL and College ranks.

Doesn't mean he'll be better or worse than the other 2 but, like FTP said about the bills, we'll have to wait and see but when it's the fish, they're already better :coocoo:
Didn't the Fish beat us twice this year and hold our QB to the lowest possible rating once and shut us out? They do after all have the best Defense in the league.

[Mr. Miyagi]

BTW Mularkey is now just a TE coach. He probably isn't even issued a playbook, let alone calling plays.

[feelthepain]

Substitute "Cam Cameron" with "Saban" and you have the delusional fins fan from last year.

Really, I wasn't aware Saban was an OC. I think Saban had some influence on the play calling, but not much. Cams history as an OC is far better then most in the NFL today.

[gr8slayer]

Really, I wasn't aware Saban was an OC. I think Saban had some influence on the play calling, but not much. Cams history as an OC is far better then most in the NFL today.
Of course it is, he's the new Dolphins coach. But if he were anywhere else he would just be a virtual nobody in your feeble little mind.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Really, I wasn't aware Saban was an OC. I think Saban had some influence on the play calling, but not much. Cams history as an OC is far better then most in the NFL today.
If you think Cam Cameron was the reason that the Chargers offense was good, and not guys named Tomlinson and Gates, you're about to have a rude awakening.

[feelthepain]

If you think Cam Cameron was the reason that the Chargers offense was good, and not guys named Tomlinson and Gates, you're about to have a rude awakening.

Yeah, cause the only place the "Air Coryell" system has ever worked is in San Diego with LT, Antonio Gates!!

[Mr. Miyagi]

Yeah, cause the only place the "Air Coryell" system has ever worked is in San Diego with LT, Antonio Gates!!
Tell me then, where else has Malcom Cameron found such offensive success in his career?

[ublinkwescore]

The Dolphins aging Defense is not accurate.





Miami finished 20th overall on offense the Bills finished 28th, he referes to Miami's O as ground zero, but has no such less then promising words for the Bills offense.

You put way too much faith in stats or offensive and defensive rankings.

would you concede that the dolphins D and O are better than Buffalo's - unless they're playing Buffalo?

I think that would be a big step towards some credibility for you on here.

[feelthepain]

Tell me then, where else has Malcom Cameron found such offensive success in his career?

Is this really your argument? Everyone has to start somewhere and not everyone successful in the NFL comes from success. Waht did BB do as a HC before landing in NE? Where's your argument for that? He was a laughing stock before joining the Pats and look at him now. Your argument is stupid.

[ublinkwescore]

Is this really your argument? Everyone has to start somewhere and not everyone successful in the NFL comes from success. Waht did BB do as a HC before landing in NE? Where's your argument for that? He was a laughing stock before joining the Pats and look at him now. Your argument is stupid.

Bill Belichik just landed on the right side of a conspiracy to ruin the NFL by putting one of the lamest lackluster teams historically (until approximately the last 5) on an unlevel playing field with the rest of it's competition courtesy of crooked refs - I'm convinced that there is something wrong - I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the Pats have gotten an overabundance of calls going their way - the Tuck rule was BS - Brady's hand lost the ball before it started moving forward, and then even as recently as last season, the Viking's got a blatantly bad call against them in the monday night game - I can't believe that there hasn't been more of an uproar over that one - how in the hell could anyone have not considered that a catch by the Vike's TE, and then a fumble that went out of bounds????

When I mention this, people try to make excuses about "well, the really, really good teams just get the calls" - that is total BS - refs need to call these games completely unbiased - if you're going to enforce something on one side, enforce it on the other, if you're gonna let one team slide with a 5 yard penalty, make sure you let the other get away with one.

[feelthepain]

You put way too much faith in stats or offensive and defensive rankings.

would you concede that the dolphins D and O are better than Buffalo's - unless they're playing Buffalo?

I think that would be a big step towards some credibility for you on here.

Oh I see, I tell you what you want to hear.....even if it's not true, I earn "credibility". I could care less about credibility here, it's not like Bill fans are credible, none of them give the Dolphins credit at all. I at least give the Bills credit, shall I prove it? Cause you sure as heck can't prove giving the Dolphins credit.

You act as if 2 games out of 16 somehow makes you the better team. You ignore the injuries, you ignore the fact that Buffalo knew MM very well and knew how to gameplan for him, heck your Defense practiced against his schemes for the last few years, you think that wasn't a factor? You ignore a lot of facts and cling to just one.

If the Bills were 11-5 and made it to the second round of the playoffs, yes I'd give them credit for being the better team. But that's not the case , not even close. Miami had a lot of injuries that you can't argue, but love to ignore. Starting QB, starting RB, starting LT, starting LG all were injuries for the Dolphins last year and missed games. The Bills didn't have that, you beat us with healthy team. Do any Bill fans ever talk about this when blowing air up your skirts about the wins? Nope!

Will you acknowledge we had these injuries and that took away quite a bit of talent from us?? You can lie to yourselves, but I'm not going to help you lie to yourselves. Maimi biggest weakness has been Offense, we did a lot to address that this ofseason, regardless of what you think. Lets just wait and see what happens this year.

[ublinkwescore]

Oh I see, I tell you what you want to hear.....even if it's not true, I earn "credibility". I could care less about credibility here, it's not like Bill fans are credible, none of them give the Dolphins credit at all. I at least give the Bills credit, shall I prove it? Cause you sure as heck can't prove giving the Dolphins credit.

You act as if 2 games out of 16 somehow makes you the better team. You ignore the injuries, you ignore the fact that Buffalo knew MM very well and knew how to gameplan for him, heck your Defense practiced against his schemes for the last few years, you think that wasn't a factor? You ignore a lot of facts and cling to just one.

If the Bills were 11-5 and made it to the second round of the playoffs, yes I'd give them credit for being the better team. But that's not the case , not even close. Miami had a lot of injuries that you can't argue, but love to ignore. Starting QB, starting RB, starting LT, starting LG all were injuries for the Dolphins last year and missed games. The Bills didn't have that, you beat us with healthy team. Do any Bill fans ever talk about this when blowing air up your skirts about the wins? Nope!

Will you acknowledge we had these injuries and that took away quite a bit of talent from us?? You can lie to yourselves, but I'm not going to help you lie to yourselves. Maimi biggest weakness has been Offense, we did a lot to address that this ofseason, regardless of what you think. Lets just wait and see what happens this year.

well, you put so much faith in stats - we shut your O out, and beat you with 83 yards through the air (it should have been over 100 if you guys didn't tackle Lee Evans so he couldn't make a TD).

[feelthepain]

Bill Belichik just landed on the right side of a conspiracy to ruin the NFL by putting one of the lamest lackluster teams historically (until approximately the last 5) on an unlevel playing field with the rest of it's competition courtesy of crooked refs - I'm convinced that there is something wrong - I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the Pats have gotten an overabundance of calls going their way - the Tuck rule was BS - Brady's hand lost the ball before it started moving forward, and then even as recently as last season, the Viking's got a blatantly bad call against them in the monday night game - I can't believe that there hasn't been more of an uproar over that one - how in the hell could anyone have not considered that a catch by the Vike's TE, and then a fumble that went out of bounds????

When I mention this, people try to make excuses about "well, the really, really good teams just get the calls" - that is total BS - refs need to call these games completely unbiased - if you're going to enforce something on one side, enforce it on the other, if you're gonna let one team slide with a 5 yard penalty, make sure you let the other get away with one.


I agree the Pats have had more then their fair share of good luck, but that's as far as I'm willing to go. You're on your own.

[feldspar]

DL:

Fred Evans: NT/DT
Steve Fifita: DT
Page Chase: DT
Rod Wright: DE/DT
Paul Soliai: NT/DT
Mkristo Bruce: DE
Abraham Wright: DE
Matt Roth: DE
Kevin Vickerson: DE

Now I realize since Miami isn't Buffalo, our young DP don't really count...cause you homers say so. But That's 8 Dlinemen we've drafted in the last three years, LIKE I SAID!!!

Now just because your Defense sucks, don't try to sluff off what your Defense is and try to find problems elswhere. I told you we aren't getting older, we're getting younger. YOU seem to be the one with blinders on, no real shock though. That's a lot of depth and talent just waiting in the wings for a chance, but when your young and sitting behind probowlers and MVP's you have no choice but to wait for a chance to play. For most people that's common sense they don't need it explained to them like they have never heard of the game of football.

The difference is that Buffalo's young players are starting now. A lot of them started last year, so we already have an idea of how they play as starters. A lot of them have already had some time to develop at the one place that counts...on the field. It takes time to learn how to play in the NFL for the overwhelming majority of players, no matter how good they were in college.

Meanwhile, we know nothing whatsoever about Miami's young guys "sitting behind probowlers." They may be promising, but they haven't proven anything in the NFL yet. Just like the Bills' John McCargo; we picked him up in the first round, but we can't just even proclaim him a good player yet because we haven't seen enough of him. It's that simple, and the same applies for all your young guys, who are all getting older sitting on the bench waiting for your old line to retire. The same goes for our CB Ashton Youboty. He'll probably start this year, and we worry about him because he has no experiece. The entire Bills team is crazy young, and we are building a team for the future. At one point, we had 5 rookies starting on defense last year. You could say the defense sucked and you may be right, but then again, this is what happens when the next generation steps up. There is a learning curve, and it happens with every team, including Miami. When your old guys step down, you will see a huge drop-off of production if you play guys with no experience.

As the old saying goes, "for most people that's common sense and they don't need it explained to them like they've never heard of the game of football."

[PECKERWOOD]

I think Bill fans are delusional, we have the better Defense....by light years. We added speed to offense and our QB position will be better this year. MM won't be calling the plays Cam Cameron will.

Your defense has more senior citizens than a retirement home. Who is going to play Qb for you bums? Wait, that doesn't matter because you don't even have an OL that can block for him. We have a QB and you don't. As long as this remains the same, Miami will never be a better team than Buffalo.

[feelthepain]

well, you put so much faith in stats - we shut your O out, and beat you with 83 yards through the air (it should have been over 100 if you guys didn't tackle Lee Evans so he couldn't make a TD).

Again, since you didn't read it the first time. Your team knew MM very well. Are you gonna sit there and tell me that had no bearing on those two games?? Hmm?? You think the Bills Defense practicing against MM Offensive schemes the previous couple of seasons didn't help your D at all in those two games last year??

[PECKERWOOD]

Again, since you didn't read it the first time. Your team knew MM very well. Are you gonna sit there and tell me that had no bearing on those two games?? Hmm?? You think the Bills Defense practicing against MM Offensive schemes the previous couple of seasons didn't help your D at all in those two games last year??

MM was our head coach too you dolt, he should have known a thing or two about our defense.

[feldspar]

MM was our head coach too you dolt, he should have known a thing or two about our defense.

:bf1:

That's hilarious. I'm sure that Mularkey being the OC of the Dolphins was WAAAAYY more of an advantage for the Dolphins. MM, being the head coach for the Bills, knew the entire Buffalo team. Then again, using Mularkey as your mastermind usually backfires.

Saying that the Bills had the advantage because they knew Mularkey is beyond ridiculous. Who knew him anyway? We cleaned house after he left. The coaching staff was entirely different.

[feelthepain]

MM was our head coach too you dolt, he should have known a thing or two about our defense.

Kinda hard to get players to play IF THEIR INJURED, YOU DOLT!!!!!!!!

[feelthepain]

:bf1:

That's hilarious. I'm sure that Mularkey being the OC of the Dolphins was WAAAAYY more of an advantage for the Dolphins. MM, being the head coach for the Bills, knew the entire Buffalo team. Then again, using Mularkey as your mastermind usually backfires.

Saying that the Bills had the advantage because they knew Mularkey is beyond ridiculous. Who knew him anyway? We cleaned house after he left. The coaching staff was entirely different.

Yeah the Bill Players that actually make the plays are clueless!!!!

[feldspar]

Yeah the Players that actually make the plays are clueless!!!!

You are clueless.

Do you think that the Buffalo players were actually on the field thinking "Hmmm, what would Mularkey do in this situation?"

Thanks for the laugh, dude. Seriously.

Mularkey is the guy calling plays with the knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of the players on the opposing team. Too bad he is incompetent though, huh? Pass more, run less...yeah, good idea when the running game is working and the passing game is not...The Bills players would have to think of the logical thing to do, and then figure that Mularkey would do just the opposite...yeah, that's the ticket.

[justasportsfan]

You are clueless.

...
:snicker: FTP is notorious for being clueless on Fishboards even about his own team.

[feelthepain]

The difference is that Buffalo's young players are starting now. A lot of them started last year, so we already have an idea of how they play as starters. A lot of them have already had some time to develop at the one place that counts...on the field. It takes time to learn how to play in the NFL for the overwhelming majority of players, no matter how good they were in college.

Meanwhile, we know nothing whatsoever about Miami's young guys "sitting behind probowlers." They may be promising, but they haven't proven anything in the NFL yet. Just like the Bills' John McCargo; we picked him up in the first round, but we can't just even proclaim him a good player yet because we haven't seen enough of him. It's that simple, and the same applies for all your young guys, who are all getting older sitting on the bench waiting for your old line to retire. The same goes for our CB Ashton Youboty. He'll probably start this year, and we worry about him because he has no experiece. The entire Bills team is crazy young, and we are building a team for the future. At one point, we had 5 rookies starting on defense last year. You could say the defense sucked and you may be right, but then again, this is what happens when the next generation steps up. There is a learning curve, and it happens with every team, including Miami. When your old guys step down, you will see a huge drop-off of production if you play guys with no experience.

As the old saying goes, "for most people that's common sense and they don't need it explained to them like they've never heard of the game of football."

Ya know what, tell yourself whatever you have to sto sleep at night. Miami has been adding youth to the Dline for three years. I proved that to you, now your trying to argue experience. Well their young and playing behind probolwers and MVP's are we supposed to sit the probowlers and MVP's so Bill fans can't find another exucse?? I don't think so.

[feelthepain]

You are clueless.

Do you think that the Buffalo players were actually on the field thinking "Hmmm, what would Mularkey do in this situation?"

Thanks for the laugh, dude. Seriously.

Mularkey is the guy calling plays with the knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of the players on the opposing team. Too bad he is incompetent though, huh? Pass more, run less...yeah, good idea when the running game is working and the passing game is not...The Bills players would have to think of the logical thing to do, and then figure that Mularkey would do just the opposite...yeah, that's the ticket.

Nooooo, that's called gameplanning!! They do that the week before a game...ever heard of it??

[feldspar]

Ya know what, tell yourself whatever you have to sto sleep at night. Miami has been adding youth to the Dline for three years. I proved that to you, now your trying to argue experience. Well their young and playing behind probolwers and MVP's are we supposed to sit the probowlers and MVP's so Bill fans can't find another exucse?? I don't think so.

The team is only as young as the guys that are playing.

Your young guys aren't playing. They are unproven.

These are the facts.

Question: do honestly believe that your defense will be as good when the young players step in?

[feldspar]

Nooooo, that's called gameplanning!! They do that the week before a game...ever heard of it??

Ever heard of a brain?

[ublinkwescore]

21+16 =37
0+6=6

31 points total margin of victory for both games - I'm sorry, but that's a total @$$whipping - only a delusional individual would argue with those results - clearly last season, we were the better team. A person of normal intelligence would probably come to the conclusion that the Bills will PROBABLY be the better team yet again given the fact that they've addressed the Oline with one proven player, and one questionable player (Langston Walker) whom Mouse McNally (an Oline coach with quite the reputation for results BTW) really likes. After addressing the Oline, which has been our achilles heel for quite a long time wouldn't one come to the conclusion that:
A. Our D should become a little better statistically because they should be able to play with a lead more often, which more often than not makes other teams pass to try to catch up which plays into our scheme's strength - taking away the big play - the deep ball.
B. Spend less time on the field, and therefor be more rested for the second halves of games.

I am positive that our O will be a very, VERY high scoring O this year.

[justasportsfan]

Ever heard of a brain?
he doesn't care if we swept them. He only cares where their D and O ranked compared to ours. It's not about the wins and losses , it's about the rankings. :roflmao:

Now you know why fishfans laugh at him.

[ublinkwescore]

Oh I see, I tell you what you want to hear.....even if it's not true, I earn "credibility". I could care less about credibility here, it's not like Bill fans are credible, none of them give the Dolphins credit at all. I at least give the Bills credit, shall I prove it? Cause you sure as heck can't prove giving the Dolphins credit.

You act as if 2 games out of 16 somehow makes you the better team. You ignore the injuries, you ignore the fact that Buffalo knew MM very well and knew how to gameplan for him, heck your Defense practiced against his schemes for the last few years, you think that wasn't a factor? You ignore a lot of facts and cling to just one.

If the Bills were 11-5 and made it to the second round of the playoffs, yes I'd give them credit for being the better team. But that's not the case , not even close. Miami had a lot of injuries that you can't argue, but love to ignore. Starting QB, starting RB, starting LT, starting LG all were injuries for the Dolphins last year and missed games. The Bills didn't have that, you beat us with healthy team. Do any Bill fans ever talk about this when blowing air up your skirts about the wins? Nope!

Will you acknowledge we had these injuries and that took away quite a bit of talent from us?? You can lie to yourselves, but I'm not going to help you lie to yourselves. Maimi biggest weakness has been Offense, we did a lot to address that this ofseason, regardless of what you think. Lets just wait and see what happens this year.

Injuries are part of the game - we lost McCargo, Crowell, McGahee for a little bit (not that we missed him, just pointing out that it is in fact a part of the game), Spikes was off and on all year - I think he missed about half the games, Troy Vincent and Chris Villareal - so that's not much of an excuse.

[feelthepain]

21+16 =37
0+6=6

31 points total margin of victory for both games - I'm sorry, but that's a total @$$whipping - only a delusional individual would argue with those results - clearly last season, we were the better team. A person of normal intelligence would probably come to the conclusion that the Bills will PROBABLY be the better team yet again given the fact that they've addressed the Oline with one proven player, and one questionable player (Langston Walker) whom Mouse McNally (an Oline coach with quite the reputation for results BTW) really likes. After addressing the Oline, which has been our achilles heel for quite a long time wouldn't one come to the conclusion that:
A. Our D should become a little better statistically because they should be able to play with a lead more often, which more often than not makes other teams pass to try to catch up which plays into our scheme's strength - taking away the big play - the deep ball.
B. Spend less time on the field, and therefor be more rested for the second halves of games.

I am positive that our O will be a very, VERY high scoring O this year.

That sure is a lot of if's!

[feelthepain]

Ever heard of a brain?

Yeah, something you obviously don't have.

[!Papacrunk!]

Alright, why don't you just admit that your defense is getting older? All the facts support that.

I don't care if Matt Roth, who? is 12 years old. I did get Matt Roth's age wrong by 2 years, but his age is entirely beside the point; I wasn't focusing on that. Besides him, your starting defensive line is over 34 years old on average. I base these numbers on what these players' ages will be when the season starts. I think you'll find that there is no discrepancy with those numbers. Do you think that Zach Thomas and Jason Taylor are going to celebrate their birthdays together on the team 3-4 years from now? Do you think that they will continue to perform at their current levels forever?

If none of you Miami fans will concede that your star defensive players are getting old, I can't see any reason to talk to you any more. You will be being totally unreasonable. If the younger guys were better than the starters, then they would be starting, no? Therefore, you should see a drop-off of performance when your old guys retire or are traded...that is logic. If it's not logical tell me exactly why not...don't just say "yeah, we got young guys, too."
Feldspar, you've made some very good points within this thread. My main objection has been as a result of previous threads where the arguement has been as the squad as a whole, with some emphasis on the starters. If you look even through this thread the common comment is Miami's defense as a whole is considered "old" by posters here. The reason I took the ages as of this date now to find the average ages of our defense, was that I was using the official sites for both teams and the Bills site only lists their age, not birthdays.

A good point you made was the dropoff when the young 'uns were to take over . My point is that in the past the defense has been solid through sucessful rotation, even though they may not be playing every second of the game, they're still getting experience, as opposed to being thrown into the fire. Ath this point, our geezers in question have been playing at a very stellar level (one of my beginning posts sheds some of their stats.) IMO the stats don't lie, the numbers that these "geezers" are churning out are still at a high level, they're numbers that are better than some of the better young whipper snappers playing today. Even if those numbers go down this year, it's still pretty good output compared to a lot of teams out there. Because of the old timer's positive output, it gives the younger guys waiting in the wings to get more experienced and also receive some great tuteledge in the mean time.

At this point even though one can't give an absolute complete judgement of the younger players, one has to look at what they've at least done at this point and also the potential they've shown (any time the word potential is used in sports conversations, one has to remember that Parcells quote, a paraphrase: "potential means you haven't done anything yet" lol)

Here's a recent quote on some of our younger lineman from the Miami Herald:




• Defense: GM Randy Mueller said Evans ''proved last year he's an NFL player, and hopefully Rodrique will, too.'' Zach Thomas raves about their work ethic; Keith Traylor loves Wright's pass-rushing skills; and Jason Taylor said: ``I don't think they can be good. Fred and Rod can be great.''

Evans, from Texas State, might have been the Dolphins' best rookie during training camp in '06, and some internally thought he should be playing. But he played in just one game. This spring, he was inspired by Taylor's text message: ''Your scholarship is over.'' Evans also is taking snaps at defensive end, where Akbar Gbaja-Biamila is Miami's only experienced backup.

Wright, sidelined last year by a rotator cuff injury that dropped him to the seventh round, weighed 316 as a senior at Texas but is now 294: ``It's a world of difference. I'm quicker off the ball and my strength is better. I have the total package.''

ESPN's Mel Kiper predicts Soliai could play ''a lot'' in '07. ''A big body in the middle is really important to this defense,'' Mueller said of Soliai, who gained 120 pounds (to 340) since his freshman year at Utah. ''We were really surprised he was'' available in Round 4. ''He's going to be a force in this league,'' draftnik and former Browns scout Russ Lande predicted.

In training camp, Kevin Vickerson (in NFL Europe) will join Evans, Wright and Soliai in competition to back up Vonnie Holliday and Traylor.


Also as far as Matt Roth goes, he started to turn it up last year and cost Kevin Carter his roster spot:




• After watching Roth get 3 ½ sacks and force three fumbles in the final seven games, the Dolphins decided he was ready to start and dumped Kevin Carter. ''Matt's body of work spoke for itself,'' GM Randy Mueller said.

Anticipating more snaps, Roth took up martial arts to improve conditioning and speed. ''He's ready to step up,'' Thomas said. ``The first couple of years, he had a motor but didn't know where he was going. He can be a beast.''

As linebackers go, Channing Crowder is waiting in the wings to eventually take over Thomas' spot. Even during his rookie campaign her tooker over for Thomas when Thomas got hurt two seasons ago and had no problem calling the plays for the defense, even though he was just a rookie. He's also starting his 3rd year as a pro, and won't turn 24 until December.




• The Dolphins still see untapped talent in Crowder, whose 104 tackles were second to Thomas' 165. ''No question, he has Pro Bowl potential,'' Mueller said.

Crowder said ''great players make plays you're not supposed to'' -- and doesn't think he does that enough. He has only one career sack, though he often drops in coverage. Coordinator Dom Capers loves Crowder's skills but wants growth in some pass coverages and to see him ''close under control in the open field.'' Crowder has bonded with Joey Porter, who sees similarities: ''He plays with a chip on his shoulder, like me,'' Porter said.

I think that if Capers can mix in the younger players in rotations and maybe give even more time to players to help the transition, then the switch won't be as horrible as some make it seem.

IMO

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Good Stuff Yard Rat, my predictions are as follows

Pats 13-3 (again they will be the class of this division and will remain so until the collapse of the Brady and Bellyjerk love fest.

Bills 10-6 (we will shock almost everyone who claims to be an expert and aside from New England who will pwn us again we will be in every game and get to the playoffs the first time this decade

Jets 9-7 (they will be tough)

Fish 7-9 they won't be easy.

[feldspar]

Feldspar, you've made some very good points within this thread. My main objection has been as a result of previous threads where the arguement has been as the squad as a whole, with some emphasis on the starters. If you look even through this thread the common comment is Miami's defense as a whole is considered "old" by posters here. The reason I took the ages as of this date now to find the average ages of our defense, was that I was using the official sites for both teams and the Bills site only lists their age, not birthdays.

A good point you made was the dropoff when the young 'uns were to take over . My point is that in the past the defense has been solid through sucessful rotation, even though they may not be playing every second of the game, they're still getting experience, as opposed to being thrown into the fire. Ath this point, our geezers in question have been playing at a very stellar level (one of my beginning posts sheds some of their stats.) IMO the stats don't lie, the numbers that these "geezers" are churning out are still at a high level, they're numbers that are better than some of the better young whipper snappers playing today. Even if those numbers go down this year, it's still pretty good output compared to a lot of teams out there. Because of the old timer's positive output, it gives the younger guys waiting in the wings to get more experienced and also receive some great tuteledge in the mean time.

At this point even though one can't give an absolute complete judgement of the younger players, one has to look at what they've at least done at this point and also the potential they've shown (any time the word potential is used in sports conversations, one has to remember that Parcells quote, a paraphrase: "potential means you haven't done anything yet" lol)

Here's a recent quote on some of our younger lineman from the Miami Herald:


Also as far as Matt Roth goes, he started to turn it up last year and cost Kevin Carter his roster spot:


As linebackers go, Channing Crowder is waiting in the wings to eventually take over Thomas' spot. Even during his rookie campaign her tooker over for Thomas when Thomas got hurt two seasons ago and had no problem calling the plays for the defense, even though he was just a rookie. He's also starting his 3rd year as a pro, and won't turn 24 until December.


I think that if Capers can mix in the younger players in rotations and maybe give even more time to players to help the transition, then the switch won't be as horrible as some make it seem.

IMO

Thanks for the info, Papa. You do have some great defensive players right now. Even though they are getting older, it's not really showing yet. I'll give you that. They are still playing at a high level, so I can definately see why the Dolphins still start them. It's still hard to see how these young guys will perform when they are called on to take over their respective positions, though. You pretty much have to assume that play will slump, if only because your starters are that good. Filling Jason Taylor's, Zach Thomas', etc. shoes is not going to be easy. They both have a few good years left, though...maybe. Are the young guys going to have to wait that long? I mean, Zach Thomas is 34, but he made the Pro Bowl last year, so Crowder might have to wait a long time before he can start at MLB. Do you think there is any possibilty that you might let one of these guys go at one point? Not now, but in a year or two... That would hurt, but sometimes these things are necessary. Taylor and Thomas have both been on the team for at least a decade. What do their contracts look like? You pretty much have to assume that Keith Traylor has got to retire very, very soon. Now THAT guy is old.

[!Papacrunk!]

Thanks for the info, Papa. You do have some great defensive players right now. Even though they are getting older, it's not really showing yet. I'll give you that. They are still playing at a high level, so I can definately see why the Dolphins still start them. It's still hard to see how these young guys will perform when they are called on to take over their respective positions, though. You pretty much have to assume that play will slump, if only because your starters are that good. Filling Jason Taylor's, Zach Thomas', etc. shoes is not going to be easy. They both have a few good years left, though...maybe. Are the young guys going to have to wait that long? I mean, Zach Thomas is 34, but he made the Pro Bowl last year, so Crowder might have to wait a long time before he can start at MLB. Do you think there is any possibilty that you might let one of these guys go at one point? Not now, but in a year or two... That would hurt, but sometimes these things are necessary. Taylor and Thomas have both been on the team for at least a decade. What do their contracts look like? You pretty much have to assume that Keith Traylor has got to retire very, very soon. Now THAT guy is old.

lmao, I think Traylor played fooseball with Abey Lincoln (I've read that his close friends called him Abey.) The guy is kind of a freak of nature--he's 38 and he can move pretty fast all considering. The guy can't play every single down, but it's something else the effort the guy puts on the field when he is playing. I think they've made a good choice by going easy on him during training camp, keeping him fresh for the season.