Ron Jaworski ranks AFC East offense and defense

[Bling]

Offense
1. Patriots
2. Dolphins
3. Bills
4. Jets

Defense
1. Patriots
2. Jets
3. Dolphins
4. Bills


I couldn't agree more. Yet again, Jaws proves why he's the best NFL analyst on ESPN.

[Bling]

Like I said in another thread, Miami has more talent than Buffalo and the Jets. The only problem is they don't play team football, and don't know about this coach. I'm expecting the worse, hoping for the best.

[madness]

Late to the party once again, Bling.

[Bling]

Late to the party once again, Bling.

I don't get it. What's that suppose to mean?

[evol4276]

i dunno about the defense for the dolphins being 3rd.. i thought theyd at least be second by his guess. yea well. i also thought we wulda been second for explosive plays.. but then i forgot we had a weak offense last year.. tho we did have a lot of big plays. but w/e lol.. i love how the sopranos segment took longer than the afc east review

[The Spaz]

I couldn't belive they had Miami's offense better than our. The reason they said was because of Ginn and Chambers...lol. Who do the Dolphins have for a QB again? Trent Green is not mobile and will be even more exposed with a bad o-line which they have. I dunno I like Losman, Evans, Lynch more than the Dolphins supposed impact players.

[Bling]

i dunno about the defense for the dolphins being 3rd.. i thought theyd at least be second by his guess. yea well. i also thought we wulda been second for explosive plays.. but then i forgot we had a weak offense last year.. tho we did have a lot of big plays. but w/e lol.. i love how the sopranos segment took longer than the afc east review

Yeah, I was a little skeptical about how the Jets were ranked so high. They were the worst statistically last year in the AFCE (behind the Bills), and the Dolphins were the best. I guess he's just predicting. I can see where losing Saban plus the age question might slow the Fins D down.

[madness]

I don't get it. What's that suppose to mean?

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=2000458#post2000458

B-DON beat you by a minute. Mods please merge.

[Bling]

I couldn't belive they had Miami's offense better than our. The reason they said was because of Ginn and Chambers...lol. Who do the Dolphins have for a QB again? Trent Green is not mobile and will be even more exposed with a bad o-line which they have. I dunno I like Losman, Evans, Lynch more than the Dolphins supposed impact players.

Generally speaking, Green is one of the most respected QB's in the league.

Let's assume that Green = Losman and Miami O-line = Buffalo O-line. I'd personally take Ginn, Chambers, Booker, Hagan Brown over Evans, Price, Reed, Parris, Lynch. I'm sure majority of football fans would too.


Of course, if Green isn't Green anymore - you have an argument.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Generally speaking, Green is one of the most respected QB's in the league.

Let's assume that Green = Losman and Miami O-line = Buffalo O-line. I'd personally take Ginn, Chambers, Booker, Hagan Brown over Evans, Price, Reed, Parris, Lynch. I'm sure majority of football fans would too.If your assumptions are correct, I'd agree... But I don't think the O-lines are equal... And that will have a compund effect due to Green's lack of mobility.

[Bling]

If your assumptions are correct, I'd agree... But I don't think the O-lines are equal... And that will have a compund effect due to Green's lack of mobility.

That's fine with me. There's no denying that Miami's O-line is in a shuffle, and there's no denying that Green benefited from that O-line in KC.

[Nighthawk]

Generally speaking, Green is one of the most respected QB's in the league.

Let's assume that Green = Losman and Miami O-line = Buffalo O-line. I'd personally take Ginn, Chambers, Booker, Hagan Brown over Evans, Price, Reed, Parris, Lynch. I'm sure majority of football fans would too.


Of course, if Green isn't Green anymore - you have an argument.

Umm, the Phins possibly have one of the worst offensive lines in the league...how are they supposed to protect the statue that is Trent Green??? Stop with this crap already...the Phins will not be that good this year. They are old and their defense is well past it's prime. They also are worse at the CB position than the Bills are and that is saying something.

Sorry, but yet again you show your ignorance.

[Bling]

how are they supposed to protect the statue that is Trent Green???

The same way they protected Joey Harrington? Maybe Green knows how to get rid of the ball faster than Daunte (who he probably runs as fast as). Who knows? I'm worried, yes.


Stop with this crap already...the Phins will not be that good this year.

You see what you want to see. I don't always agree with FTP, but he's right when he says that the Bills has as many question marks as Miami. What Buffalo has that Miami doesn't is the same Head Coach and the same QB for a second year.



They are old and their defense is well past it's prime. They also are worse at the CB position than the Bills are and that is saying something.

Talk about ignorance. Those old players are Defensive MVP and led the league in tackles. They're not going to all of a sudden drop to ****. They're going to slowly regress.

As for the CB position, I have no idea what you're talking about. We know who our #1 CB is (a solid starter in this year). Our second CB can be a veteran, former starter coming off injury, or 1st round sophomore like Ashton Youboty (minus the 1st round part, of course). Sounds like we know half our side. Is McGee even a legit #2?

Yet again, Nighthawk, you show your ignorance.

[Carlton Bailey]

Miami's offense is going to be one of the worst in the league. Where's the quarterback? Where's the offensive line? All they have is Ronnie Brown and, sometimes, Chris Chambers. Don't throw Ted Ginn at me; if he's even good, it will take time to adjust. Lee Evans didn't do much as a rookie until the second half of the season.

My rankings...

Offense:

1. NE
2. Buffalo
3. NYJ
4. Miami

Defense:

1. NE
2. Miami
3. NYJ
4. Buffalo

[Philagape]

The only advantage the Fins have on offense is maybe more depth at receiver. Other than that ...

JP > Green (old and immobile, doesn't have Gonzo to throw to anymore)
Lynch > Brown (barely over 1,000 yards last year)
Evans > Chambers (wasn't even top WR on team last year)

And the rest are at best a push.

[lordofgun]

LOL. Joke.

[Bling]

The only advantage the Fins have on offense is maybe more depth at receiver. Other than that ...

JP > Green (old and immobile, doesn't have Gonzo to throw to anymore)
Lynch > Brown (barely over 1,000 yards last year)
Evans > Chambers (wasn't even top WR on team last year)

And the rest are at best a push.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: @ Lynch over Brown. Based on what? That's like me saying Ginn over Evans.

[SquishDaFish]

Lynch will be better. Not right now but will be. The Phins will be in last place sorry Bling.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Offense
New England
New York
Buffalo
Miami

Defense
Miami
New England
Buffalo
New York

Special Teams
Buffalo
New York
New England
Miami

These are my rankings. Using a formula of 4 points for 1st, 3 for 2nd, 2 for 3rd and 1 for 4th and multiplying offense and defense scores by two, weighing them heavier than special teams, the score comes out this way:

1. New England 16 pts
2. Buffalo 12 pts
3a. NYJ 11 pts
3b. Miami 11 pts

Once again, it's a battle for second in the division.

[Bling]

Offense
New England
New York
Buffalo
Miami

Defense
Miami
New England
Buffalo
New York

Special Teams
Buffalo
New York
New England
Miami

These are my rankings. Using a formula of 4 points for 1st, 3 for 2nd, 2 for 3rd and 1 for 4th and multiplying offense and defense scores by two, weighing them heavier than special teams, the score comes out this way:

1. New England 16 pts
2. Buffalo 12 pts
3a. NYJ 11 pts
3b. Miami 11 pts

Once again, it's a battle for second in the division.

Wes Welker + NE = #1 in ST.

[Crisis]

I think people are underestimating the Jet's offense.

[FlyingDutchman]

Offense
1. Patriots
2. Dolphins
3. Bills
4. Jets

Defense
1. Patriots
2. Jets
3. Dolphins
4. Bills


I couldn't agree more. Yet again, Jaws proves why he's the best NFL analyst on ESPN.

well that went over like a fart in church

[Mad Bomber]

Offense
1. Patriots
2. Dolphins
3. Bills
4. Jets

Defense
1. Patriots
2. Jets
3. Dolphins
4. Bills


I couldn't agree more. Yet again, Jaws proves why he's the best NFL analyst on ESPN.
I can't see the Dolphins offense as better than either the Bills or Jets (unless Pennington goes down again).

[TigerJ]

When Jawarski studies some more, he'll come around.

[lordofgun]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: @ Lynch over Brown. Based on what? That's like me saying Ginn over Evans.
Except that Brown has proven he's average, while Evans has proven he's a future pro bowler.

[Bling]

Except that Brown has proven he's average, while Evans has proven he's a future pro bowler.

I wouldn't say that yet.

[Mad Bomber]

I wouldn't say that yet.
I'm sure you wouldn't.

[feelthepain]

I'm sure you wouldn't.

No different then you thinking the Bills offense is better then the Dolphins. You did finish the season with the 28th best offense while Miami finished 20th. What does this mean? It means over 16 games.....(not two games) Miami played better on offense then the Bills in 06, but for some strange reason Bill fans think their offense is better then Miami's.

[Crisis]

Your offense scored one garbage time touchdown vs our team in two games, I think that's enough reason to say your offense blows.

[Mad Bomber]

No different then you thinking the Bills offense is better then the Dolphins. You did finish the season with the 28th best offense while Miami finished 20th. What does this mean? It means over 16 games.....(not two games) Miami played better on offense then the Bills in 06, but for some strange reason Bill fans think their offense is better then Miami's.
The reason the Bills finished that poorly was that for the first half of the season they had the WORST offense in the NFL. In the second half they showed improvement, and I'm looking for that improvement to continue.

[gr8slayer]

Brown is a certified bust until he does something worth talking about.

[ShadowHawk7]

Generally speaking, Green is one of the most respected QB's in the league.

Let's assume that Green = Losman and Miami O-line = Buffalo O-line. I'd personally take Ginn, Chambers, Booker, Hagan Brown over Evans, Price, Reed, Parris, Lynch. I'm sure majority of football fans would too.


Of course, if Green isn't Green anymore - you have an argument.

I'll say okay with your assumption that Losman = Green; I'll even concede Green is slightly better at this point. But who exactly makes the Miami Oline better than the Bills, who have Pro Bowl calibers at LT, LG, and solid starters at C and RT.

Also, at this point, you can not place your boy Ginn even over Parrish. Same body, same style of play, but Parrish has somewhat produced while Ginn hasn't yet.
Parrish = Ginn

Booker has been a solid disappointment in Miami, more than Price has. Price split #2 reps with Reed as well.
I would easily say Price/Reed > Booker

Evans is AT LEAST equal to the dangerous, yet inconsistent Chambers, and has been known to show him up head-to-head.
Evans = Chambers (or slightly better)

I'll be fair and use my same assessment for Lynch as I did for Ginn. At this point,
Lynch < Brown

Overall, I'd say the Bills offense wins out, barely.

[Bling]

I'm sure you wouldn't.

Because I'm a big-time homer. Oh well.

[feelthepain]

The reason the Bills finished that poorly was that for the first half of the season they had the WORST offense in the NFL. In the second half they showed improvement, and I'm looking for that improvement to continue.

Still the Bills finished some 7 places further back in total offense. You were ranked worse at passing and running then Miami you also gave up 7 more sacks then Miami on the season on offense. I think Bill fans are a bit confused as to what their team really is. Ofcourse this is a new season and both teams have made changes, but it doesn't excuse the fact that Bill fans think their teams better on offense based on last years stats, cause it's simply not true.

[HHURRICANE]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: @ Lynch over Brown. Based on what? That's like me saying Ginn over Evans.

As big a Lynch homer as I am I have to agree with this post.

[Bling]

I'll say okay with your assumption that Losman = Green; I'll even concede Green is slightly better at this point. But who exactly makes the Miami Oline better than the Bills, who have Pro Bowl calibers at LT, LG, and solid starters at C and RT.

Buffalo has a better O-line.



Also, at this point, you can not place your boy Ginn even over Parrish. Same body, same style of play, but Parrish has somewhat produced while Ginn hasn't yet.
Parrish = Ginn


You're right that Ginn has done nothing in this league. But as someone that watched Roscoe Parrish in college, Ginn might as well be Marvin Harrison when you compare the two. Parrish wasn't even a #2 at Miami. Want to know what he's most famous for?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=de1aMu2pDOg

Parrish wins on pure technicalities. Once week 1 arrives, it'll be clear that Ginn is better.




Booker has been a solid disappointment in Miami, more than Price has. Price split #2 reps with Reed as well.
I would easily say Price/Reed > Booker


You can't compare 2 WR's to 1 WR.

I'll stick to the stats, you stick to 2 WRs to 1. :D Booker - 747 receiving yards (Miami's leading receiver last year, not so disappointing). Reed - 410. Price - 402. Actually Miami's #3 last year was Chambers with 677. Sorry. Miami's WR corp > Buffalo's.



Evans is AT LEAST equal to the dangerous, yet inconsistent Chambers, and has been known to show him up head-to-head.
Evans = Chambers (or slightly better)


Evans clearly outshines Chambers.


I'll be fair and use my same assessment for Lynch as I did for Ginn. At this point,
Lynch < Brown

You don't have to be fair to me. Be fair to yourself.


Overall, I'd say the Bills offense wins out, barely.

If Miami's O-line can hold on long enough, Miami has the talent and skill players to be the 2nd best in the AFCE. Buffalo doesn't have those skill players yet. Besides Evans, Losman and Lynch are question marks to me. Reed and Price are atrocious. And I guess neither of us are using a TE this year.

[Bling]

Your offense scored one garbage time touchdown vs our team in two games, I think that's enough reason to say your offense blows.

Mooooooooolarkey didn't have anything to do with that?

[CuseJetsFan83]

like i said before, as far as whos better than who, you go by last year..... and then once some games get played then opinions change.....

in my mind the jets are worlds champs every year, but obviously that doesnt happen as often as i'd like ;-)

offensively:
buffalo i think is tops in the league... if lynch has the high standards met, and well jp i think is the best qb in the division... make all your comments about brady and his rings, but it doesnt hurt that they also have that team concept thing going... now with all these stars coming... i'd love to see them fall flat on their face

ne/nyj are split.... jets were better passingwise, patriots better running... pennington will have a huge load relieved with jones being on the team.... same with maroney having a load taken away with all the passing threats.....


dolphins = the suck

defensively
dolphins - aging d is still the "kings" its not their fault c-pepp and the rest of the teal squad sucked?

bills - this is what was their biggest enemy and best friend some games

jets - defensive is getting better, but still horrible on the run

patriots

special teams -
buffalo is best as far as punting/punt return... and one of the better kickoff squads

jets imo, were the best in ko return

patriots - probably have the best kicker in the division in gostkowski

dolphins - no mare... and didnt they get rid of their punter too... and welker is gone?


but as far as the division itself goes..... i still think th edivison goes this way

ne
nyj
buff
mia

no records given only because i really wanna see how free agency goes as well..

[feelthepain]

I'll say okay with your assumption that Losman = Green; I'll even concede Green is slightly better at this point. But who exactly makes the Miami Oline better than the Bills, who have Pro Bowl calibers at LT, LG, and solid starters at C and RT.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. JP has had exactly one half season of avg play at the starting QB position and you just barely give Green the nod over JP? Based on what...age? Cuase JP's numbers simply don't exist. He's done nothing, no winning season, no playoffs, no probowl, but you Bill fans are trying to act like he's all of sudden gone from huge question mark to a player of elite statis....if you don't think that, then you're talking about just an avg player at the most important position on your team. In other words, your QB position is far from settled. Why would the Bills waste such a high DP (3rd round) on a position (QB, Trent Edwards) that Bill fans believe is fixed? Obviously the Bills FO doesn't believe JP has answered all the questions so they felt it was important to waste such a high pick on a QB when your Dline is in such need of talent.

As for the Olines....once again, the Bills had the 28th best passing game and 27th best rushing attack, Buffalo gave up 47 sacks last year. Miami was the 22nd best rushing attack and the 13th best passing attack and Miami gave up 40 sacks last year. Every stat favors Miami, so why do you think the Bills have the better Oline? Because of the 2 games head to head?? The season is 16 games long not 2 games and division games can go either way no matter how good or bad the two teams are, ofcourse you'd know this if you'd been watching any football at all over the last 40 years.



Also, at this point, you can not place your boy Ginn even over Parrish. Same body, same style of play, but Parrish has somewhat produced while Ginn hasn't yet.
Parrish = Ginn


Ginn is a question mark as are all Rookies, no matter where they were drafted...including Lynch, but Bill fans seem awful sure Lynch is the sure thing, but Ginn can't be? Uh huh.



Booker has been a solid disappointment in Miami, more than Price has. Price split #2 reps with Reed as well.
I would easily say Price/Reed > Booker



Bookers been a disappointment in Miami??? Wow, that's a new one. I think you're lost as usual. Booker hasn't been a disappointment becuase the Offense as a whole hasn't been exactly outstanding. Marty has played very well considering.



Evans is AT LEAST equal to the dangerous, yet inconsistent Chambers, and has been known to show him up head-to-head.
Evans = Chambers (or slightly better)


I don't think anyone would argue Evans has talent, lets see where they stand after this season.

[Carlton Bailey]

Trent Green is a good guy but is well past his prime. Ask a Chiefs fan, or rewind the tape and watch one of Green's starts from last season.

[feelthepain]

and well jp i think is the best qb in the division... well..

:oops: :bandwagon :bandwagon :bandwagon :bandwagon :bandwagon :bandwagon :bandwagon oh yeah,:bandwagon

[CuseJetsFan83]

:oops: :bandwagon :bandwagon :bandwagon :bandwagon :bandwagon :bandwagon :bandwagon oh yeah,:bandwagon

reasoning for this is exactly this....

the patriots i think will fall flat and maroney will be the main attraction...

pennington is still gonna be questioned..

green/lemon will be targeted every game

jp is the only one who is mobile enough to do something

[feelthepain]

reasoning for this is exactly this....

the patriots i think will fall flat and maroney will be the main attraction...

pennington is still gonna be questioned..

green/lemon will be targeted every game

jp is the only one who is mobile enough to do something

So you think mobility = success? JP was sacked 47 times last year,his mobility didn't help him last year. Of all the starting QB's in the division JP is so far behind all the other QB's as far as success in this league it's not even funny. There is zero chance JP is better then 4th in the division at the starting QB position.

[CuseJetsFan83]

So you think mobility = success? JP was sacked 47 times last year,his mobility didn't help him last year. Of all the starting QB's in the division JP is so far behind all the other QB's as far as success in this league it's not even funny. There is zero chance JP is better then 4th in the division at the starting QB position.

while i said, it is my opinion, how i think it will go

brady
pennington
jp
miami....

brady has the characters he needs, but i dunno, no more team concept i guess?

jp has the best raw talent, and once he harnesses it i think he will be a huge threat, but your point is taken.

[feelthepain]

while i said, it is my opinion, how i think it will go

brady
pennington
jp
miami....

brady has the characters he needs, but i dunno, no more team concept i guess?

jp has the best raw talent, and once he harnesses it i think he will be a huge threat, but your point is taken.

Good luck finding anyone outside this site that would take JP over Green this this year.

[lordofgun]

Good luck finding anyone outside this site that would take JP over Green this this year.
LOL. Anyone who knows football would gladly take JP over Green this year.

And JP is DEFINITELY a better qb than Culpepper!

[feelthepain]

LOL. Anyone who knows football would gladly take JP over Green this year.

And JP is DEFINITELY a better qb than Culpepper!

Sure, whatever.

[CuseJetsFan83]

if green somehow recaptures what he had 5 years ago..... i'd defintely think of him as the comeback player of the year, but with how culpepper and harrington just got beaten around last year, i really dont see this as a good thing for green, although i do think kc gave him the shaft

[xXSpIkes5IXx]

This entire argument is based solely on speculation and prior seasons, on both sides.

We all know that **** happens every NFL season. For all we know, Ronnie Brown could live up to his #2 pick status this season, or Trent Green could get injured, or JP could regress, or Lynch could have a ROY season.

This argument is pointless, mini camp just started, the season is a long ways away.

[Philagape]

Trent Green is going to fall apart behind Miami's line and without the go-to guy he's had for years. He's a caretaker who probably won't last the season, while JP's a playmaker who can light it up.

[feelthepain]

This entire argument is based solely on speculation and prior seasons, on both sides.

We all know that **** happens every NFL season. For all we know, Ronnie Brown could live up to his #2 pick status this season, or Trent Green could get injured, or JP could regress, or Lynch could have a ROY season.

This argument is pointless, mini camp just started, the season is a long ways away.

I think that's obivous, but it's early June and we need to talk about something.

[YardRat]

It's really ridiculous to try to rank the offenses and the defenses at this point, especially for this division. It wouldn't shock me to see ANY of the four rank first or fourth in either category at the end of the year.

[CuseJetsFan83]

It's really ridiculous to try to rank the offenses and the defenses at this point, especially for this division. It wouldn't shock me to see ANY of the four rank first or fourth in either category at the end of the year.

well as FTP stated, we need something to talk about....... im really excited for the upcoming season though