Dolphins Fans - Question

[Devin]

Any smack talk will be deleted and points issued, so spare me the headache and dont.

Anyway, What kind of offense do you invision Cam will run? What do you expect will change from last year?

Given all the weapons and success he had in SD and with a fair amount of young/promising players on offense what do you think he will do to play to the strengths of these guys? How do you think Trent Green will influence that?

[B-DON]

How far can green still throw the ball? Is he going to be like Brad Johnson was last year?? He is pretty damn old

[Devin]

Trent Green is certainly above the class of Brad Johnson. And while age isnt on his side I think hes a solid 1-2 year option. Trent will still hang 3500 yards over 16 games.

[B-DON]

Last year everyone here in Minnesota thought Johnson could last one more year to groom jackson and he ended up playing like garbage and they had to rush jacksons progression. I could see the same thing happening in Miami this year with green playing more like his age then his former self, Miami will be forced to throw Beck in there way ahead of schedule

[feelthepain]

Lets see, to start with Cam really only had three real weapons in SD. It was Brees/Rivers, LT and A.Gates. Their Oline was good obviously, but I think an Oline production is more a result of the play calling then talent. It's why you can play a Rookie on the line and he can make a probowl simply because the play calling is efficent and effective.

As for Miami, Chris Chambers one and only Probowl season was under a OC that loved to spread the offense and play verticle football. Cam does the same. I won't even begin to mention Ginn at this point cause he's neither a superstar or a bust. We have nothing to gauge him with in the NFL so he is more or less just a question mark. As for Booker he's not the fastest, but a solid #2 nonetheless. There is talk Dereck Hagan could pass him on the depth chart, but it's a little to early for that. Still, between Chambers , Booker and Hagan Miami looks good at WR. We also went out and got Az Hakim and we brought back Kelly Campbell. We are deep at WR between rookies and veteran players not mentioned Like David Sutton, PK Sam, Michael Malone and Kerry Reed. I think we will have a very good set of WR's this year.

RB, is also a position we are full of talent. I honestly think Booker was on Miami's radar since the day Cam was hired. He very fast very quick illusive. Ofcourse we have Ronnie and regardless of what Bill fans think Ronnie is a stud. The guy is strong fast and has fantastic hands. We also have Patrick Cobbs, Jesse Chapman and Ray Perkins We have Kyle Eckel also but I think he's headed to the practice squad simply because there is too much talent ahead of him.

Our Oline is suddenly become full of youth and talent. I love our two DP's this year in Samson Satele and Drew Mormino. Samson is our projected Center and Drew took snaps at Gaurd with the first team in Mini camp this weekend although he was pulled for a false start. I still think Drew has a real shot at making this team. If he continues to impress this summer he will secure a spot. The rest of the line includes thre starters that played very well last year in Rex Hadnot, Vernon Carey and LJ Shelton. Miami shuffeled the line sending Rex to Gaurd from his C position, LJ to RT from RG and Vernon to LT from RT. According to Houck, Vernon would have made the move to LT last year if we didn't have Damion McIntosh, Houck said Vernon was ready last year.

As I said above I think our Oline will be better simply because of the playcalling. It's a huge part of the success a team has on offense. I think Saban had a bit more control over the playcalling last year and there were times when Miami was a little too bland. Cam just this past weekend said in his PC that he thinks what makes WR's the most effective in his system is to get downfield as fast as possible. No dancing no juking, just get to the endzone as fast as you can. He also said this offense would be a run first offense. I think that however will be the philosophy midway through the season when everything settles down. I think Miami will be a much more effective unit this year, I'm not going to call them great or anything like that just that we won't be nearly as boring as recent years.

[!Papacrunk!]

Any smack talk will be deleted and points issued, so spare me the headache and dont.

Anyway, What kind of offense do you invision Cam will run? What do you expect will change from last year?

Given all the weapons and success he had in SD and with a fair amount of young/promising players on offense what do you think he will do to play to the strengths of these guys? How do you think Trent Green will influence that?

Honestly I have no idea. I've watched some Chargers games, but I wasn't committing the stuff to memory. I did bold the above, because that phrase seems to be the common thread about Cameron in past things that I've read. Also, my brain is quite tired (more so then the usual) but I'll come back to this thread after I've picked up some more info.

[casdhf]

I don't think Green will put up big numbers. I see them running alot and playing defense. Their only offensive weapon in the passing game is Chambers. I think the skill positions of the Bills and Dolphins are very similar.

Chambers/Evans
Brown/Lynch
Booker/Price
Bum TE/Bum TE
Ginn/Parrish

I do think out OL is one year ahead of theirs ... hopefully

[RedEyE]

Green instantly improves that offense. Cam and Green go way back, so I expect some fun and ekindled youth in the old man. He'll have a nice season, and anyone thinking that Miami is going to avoid throwing the football need think again. Unless the OL starts to crumble early, they'll be jamming the air with what Green does best.

[!Papacrunk!]

Green instantly improves that offense. Cam and Green go way back, so I expect some fun and ekindled youth in the old man. He'll have a nice season, and anyone thinking that Miami is going to avoid throwing the football need think again. Unless the OL starts to crumble early, they'll be jamming the air with what Green does best.
hopefully so. I think a lot of their success will depend on the young 'uns on the o-line. At least that's something that's reassuring, they'll be some growing pains, but at least there will be continuity of a line that will grow with experience together.

[Bling]

Truthfully, I don't know. I'm not going to claim I know something I don't know anything about. I did not know who CC was before Miami was in the process of hiring.

All I can talk about is Miami's offensive weapons. I think Miami's offense has been highly underrated for years. It needs to be pasted together. It just added Ted Ginn Jr. I have big faith in Brown, and think that Chambers could have another 1000 yard season. Brown is going to break out, I'm in no way concerned about him (despite what rival fans try to spin it out to be he's had the most rushing yards out of the top 3 RB in the 05 draft and will continue to impress). I think Marty Booker is great for a #2 on any team, and Ginn can provide what this offense has lacked for a while now. Miami probably has one of the best top 3 WR corps in the league.

I have been a humongous fan of Trent Green's for years. Like Jake Delhomme, I think they're great QBs that get overshadowed by the overrated QBs. I'm not worried about Green's concussion. I am worried that he won't be blocked for so well. I am scared about the scouting report on John Beck's arm (I'm hoping if Miami blows this year, they draft a QB just for more compeitition). Sounds like he's Chad Pennigton, which I would not mind. I don't know how a weak armed Beck is going to connect to a deep threat like Ginn though.

I am worried about Miami's O-line. The right side will be solid with Hadnot and Shelton. Carey might be able to do the job at LT. He was superb at RT, and he was drafted to be a LT in this league. Satele sounds promising (though it was disappoint to watch Kalil just go before him). But how sure are we of the C, LG, and LT position?


The ceiling on Miami's Offense is pretty high. The second highest in the division. But of course, they haven't reached since Dan left.

[North_Coast]

I think the two keys to the Miami offense are pretty obvious: the play of the OL and the play of Green.

I don't think the OL is going to be nearly good enough soon enough to make Miami's offense more than mediocre. I don't like Shelton at RT. He was serviceable at RG, but OT is a different bird, although RT is easier than LT where Shelton failed three times: Arizona, Cleveland, and Miami. Carey might make a LT -- or he might not since the positions require different skill sets. Hadnot at RG is an upgrade over Shelton, but Satele at C is going to be a work-in-progress all season. Liwienski at LG is a stop gap. Beyond that -- Miami has a lot of never weres and rookies, so all the Catholic Fins fans had best saying a novena to St Jude for the health of their OL! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_1.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxmk996KPUS)

As for Trent Green, I think last year's performance in KC was NOT auspicious. QBs on the wrong side of 35 can "lose it" without notice. In 2002, Vinny T tanked. Last year it was Brad Johnson.

Moreover, Green's a high maintenance QB who needs a good line for protection to give him time to find his weapons. I don't think Miami's OL can give him the time to throw, Chambers is inconsistent, Booker's okay, and the rest of the Fins WRs and TEs don't scare anybody.

[Marvelous]

Any smack talk will be deleted and points issued, so spare me the headache and dont.


Wow! Talk about power trip...

[Mitchy moo]

Wow! Talk about power trip...

Crush you like this paper cup / Mr. Burns type power?

[LtFinFan66]

If you guys can't keep from talking smack in ONE thread then they deserve to be deleted. He was simply asking for the smack to be kept out of this thread. I don't see a power trip at all:idunno:

[DraftBoy]

Miami's offense imo will rely on two things;
1. The solidifying of their OL-if it comes together Brown has lanes he didnt have last year, and Green gets the time he needs to pick teams apart.

2. A second WR option emerges. I dont think Booker is a good #2 and I dont think Ginn will ever be more than a ST'er (ala Dante Hall), but if somebody like Hagan can emerge and provide a reason for teams to give a damn about the guy oppositte Chambers then thats huge for them. Also seeing a reliable TE target emerge would be nice for them too.

Thats what the Dolphins entire season hinges on right there imo.

[mybills]

Green instantly improves that offense.
I was hoping someone would say this! I agree. :hi5:

[Static]

Green's concusion history is what worries me, the O-line will have to do a good job protecting his fragil head....plus our recievers need to be more aggresive in going after the ball. I think we will play better than last year, but until they prove it to me we are still the last place team in the AFC east.

[mysticsoto]

Miami's offense imo will rely on two things;
1. The solidifying of their OL-if it comes together Brown has lanes he didnt have last year, and Green gets the time he needs to pick teams apart.

2. A second WR option emerges. I dont think Booker is a good #2 and I dont think Ginn will ever be more than a ST'er (ala Dante Hall), but if somebody like Hagan can emerge and provide a reason for teams to give a damn about the guy oppositte Chambers then thats huge for them. Also seeing a reliable TE target emerge would be nice for them too.

Thats what the Dolphins entire season hinges on right there imo.

That's just what I was about to say eloquently summarized. Their OL (like any) is going to be key for either the passing or running game to do something. I was puzzled that they only got a Center from the draft and not a Guard or tackle also...especially considering the line Cam had in SD. I have a hunch it will become a huge priority next year!

As for WR, after drafting him 9th, Ginn better earn the 2nd WR position! Most WRs that go in the 1st rd are meant to be the 1st WR on a team. Ginn better do more than just be a great return/ST'er or he's a bust!!! When you think of the depth of WR in this last draft, if all you wanted was a lower caliber WR to return, you could have waited until the 3rd or 4th rd to grab a still decent prospect. At #9, you need to have a guy that's going to take over the role as #2 - even if he struggles a bit as a rookie - he's got to be given that position to grow into it!

It really does come down to these two positions. Their secondary isn't great, but lucky for them, their DEs and LBs have compensated for that. As they get older, it'll be interesting to see if they can continue to compensate...

[justasportsfan]

Devin was asking finfans and it looks like a few finfans came out of the closet.

[DraftBoy]

Devin was asking finfans and it looks like a few finfans came out of the closet.

Im sorry some of us like to have general knowledge of all teams, and not just choose to blindly think that the Bills are the only team that matters in Football.

/sarcasm

[Goobylal]

The problem when trying to evaluate Green and Cameron is that both had great talent on offense, particularly on the O-line (at least until last year in Green's case, and Miami's O-line doesn't figure to even be that good unless they surprise everyone) and at TE and RB, where having game-changers means a lot. At best I'd give Miami the edge in WR's, but the quality of the O-line will have more to do with what THEY do than anything else.

[justasportsfan]

Im sorry some of us like to have general knowledge of all teams, and not just choose to blindly think that the Bills are the only team that matters in Football.
wow, someones sensitive today. I was just kidding.

[DraftBoy]

wow, someones sensitive today. I was just kidding.


forgot my /sarcasm tags, my bad

[FINintheMOON]

Green's concusion history is what worries me, the O-line will have to do a good job protecting his fragil head....plus our recievers need to be more aggresive in going after the ball. I think we will play better than last year, but until they prove it to me we are still the last place team in the AFC east.

What concussion history? He suffered his first last year!

[FINintheMOON]

I think the OL will be much better this year than last... Houck has a season under his belt with most of these guys and the OL changes are at his discretion. Houck is arguably one of the best OL coaches out there and I do believe that we will witness that this year...

[CAbills]

Lets see, to start with Cam really only had three real weapons in SD. It was Brees/Rivers, LT and A.Gates. Their Oline was good obviously, but I think an Oline production is more a result of the play calling then talent.

Brees was a top 5 Qb and LT and Gates are argubably the best in the NFL at both of there positions. Saying only have three weapons really doesn't tell the whole story. But you know this, because your smart.

[feelthepain]

Brees was a top 5 Qb and LT and Gates are argubably the best in the NFL at both of there positions. Saying only have three weapons really doesn't tell the whole story. But you know this, because your smart.


The point is, the system in San Diego was a strong one as is the system in NE as is the system in Indy. Do you see the connection? Sure you do, cause you're smart.

[Voltron]

I grabbed Brown with my 2nd FF draft pick last year :sigh:

(I had the last pick of the round so got 2 in a row :D )

[LtFinFan66]

Green's concusion history is what worries me, the O-line will have to do a good job protecting his fragil head....plus our recievers need to be more aggresive in going after the ball. I think we will play better than last year, but until they prove it to me we are still the last place team in the AFC east.That was his first career concussion LT:wtf:

[LtFinFan66]

That's just what I was about to say eloquently summarized. Their OL (like any) is going to be key for either the passing or running game to do something. I was puzzled that they only got a Center from the draft and not a Guard or tackle also...especially considering the line Cam had in SD. I have a hunch it will become a huge priority next year!

As for WR, after drafting him 9th, Ginn better earn the 2nd WR position! Most WRs that go in the 1st rd are meant to be the 1st WR on a team. Ginn better do more than just be a great return/ST'er or he's a bust!!! When you think of the depth of WR in this last draft, if all you wanted was a lower caliber WR to return, you could have waited until the 3rd or 4th rd to grab a still decent prospect. At #9, you need to have a guy that's going to take over the role as #2 - even if he struggles a bit as a rookie - he's got to be given that position to grow into it!

It really does come down to these two positions. Their secondary isn't great, but lucky for them, their DEs and LBs have compensated for that. As they get older, it'll be interesting to see if they can continue to compensate...They drafted Satele who can play guard/Center and Mormino who is a center plus picked up a guard or 2 in FA

[Devin]

What do you guys think about Solai? I almost drafted him in my sim league.

Appears to have solid size but there was mention of immaturity problems. No mention of character I think they were referring to his Wonderlic score....which is pretty meaningless considering Jason Peters scored like a -4 or something.

Draftboy maybe you know a little about him, I didnt see him play much in college.

[!Papacrunk!]

What do you guys think about Solai? I almost drafted him in my sim league.

Appears to have solid size but there was mention of immaturity problems. No mention of character I think they were referring to his Wonderlic score....which is pretty meaningless considering Jason Peters scored like a -4 or something.

Draftboy maybe you know a little about him, I didnt see him play much in college.

there has been some buzz about him, but camps w/o pads/hitting makes it hard to really say anything about him outside of his college career.

[feelthepain]

What do you guys think about Solai? I almost drafted him in my sim league.

Appears to have solid size but there was mention of immaturity problems. No mention of character I think they were referring to his Wonderlic score....which is pretty meaningless considering Jason Peters scored like a -4 or something.

Draftboy maybe you know a little about him, I didnt see him play much in college.

He was the biggest player at the combine 6-4 340, for his size, he's quick. Very strong and has a passion for the game. The Dolphins were shocked he was still on the board in the 4th. Miami really wanted Haloti Ngata last year, but he was gone by 16. With Traylor reaching the end of his career Miami needed to fill the position with a young massive body because it's important for what they like to do on Defense. It's also why I believe Miami will once again be one of the toughest teams to run on and Zach will have another big year.

[dolphan117]

One thing that has become apparent over the last while is that unlike last year Chambers will be moved all over the place to try and create miss matches as opposed to just lining up in the flanker spot all the time like the Genius Mike Mularkey had him do last year. In the organized team activities OTA's or whatever they are, Chambers has lined up in the slot and played the split end position as well. I would imagine they will do the same thing with Ginn, moving him all over the place to try and make it difficult for defenses to account for him.

And when I say "moving him all over the place" I mean something similar to what the Saints did with Bush last year. They lined him up in the backfield, split him out wide, put him in the slot, ran reverses to him, screens, pitches etc. The one play that sticks in my mind was in the NFC Championship game where they had him starting in the backfield (I think) and had him run out left side with a wr coming across his face and forming a natural pick to slow down the defender that was trying to cover him. Bush turns on the jets up the sideline, Brees lobs it over the top to the wide open Reggie and its off to the races. Jukes out the safety that didn't get there until to late and it ends up like a 70 yard TD.

That's what speed does for you if its properly utilized. That play with a slower RB is not a 70 yard td, heck its probably not even a completion. There is an art to designing plays for guys that have that kind of speed, stuff that with a slower guy just doesn't work, but with a true burner just opens the game up.

Obviously Ginn isn't quite as versatile as Bush in that you wont see him lined up in the I form much. Possible from time to time but not much. Other than that he will probably be asked to do all the reverse/screen/end around stuff that the Saints did with Bush...... And also expect to see the option run/pass play that Cam ran so well with LT as the ball carrier. Ginn was a high school QB and Cam has already made reference to it.

One thing that's going to be interesting with regards to our offense Vs. what he had to work with in SD is that in SD he had a dominant RB and a pro bowl TE while his wide receivers weren't all that spectacular. In Miami we have a good young back in Ronnie Brown who IMO hasn't come very close to reaching his potential (at least yet) TE's named David Martin and Justin Peel,(Um.. who?) and then the WR group of Chambers, Booker, Ginn Hagen and others. It would seem that the strength of this team is very different from what he had in SD in that our strength is probably in the WR department as opposed to the RB/TE department. Not sure how that will effect the look of his offense in Miami.

In SD I was always under the impression that LT pretty much set up the passing game and also opened up the middle for Gates..... Unless Ronnie (and our O line) gets much better on a much more consistent basis I don't think we will be able to do the same thing. IDK maybe we will go 3 wide with a FB, RB, no TE. Will be interesting to see.

One thing I will say though, our offense was brutal last year, almost unwatchable at times. I'm glad we have Cam, I'm very exited to have Ginn (And yes I was very high on him before we drafted him, second on my board only to Quinn, and not by much at that) its good to have a vet QB who knows the offense and we have a guy with a lot of potential in Brown. But at this point I think that's the big word, potential. We have lots of it on offense and most of it has yet to either be as consistent (Chambers/Brown) or done anything at the NFL level. (Ginn) I guess I could see us being very good...... Or having some very serious growing pains. I just really don't know what our record is going to be at the end of the year. I am setting my sights pretty low and just hoping for a pleasant surprise, which I have found is a pretty good way to approach life.

[dolphan117]

On other note since the question was not just about what Cam will do with the offense but how the team will or will not change-

The D isnt going to change a lot but it will change some. Now that Saban is gone Dom Capers is the man in charge of the D and was given a pretty heft contract to do it (Highest paid DC in the league) Last year we ran a hybrid 3-4 4-3 and Capers has said he will continue that trend this year. However the D has been simplified. Last year as many as 3 different assignments would change in the secondary when one offensive player went in motion. Its no stretch to say that under Saban we had one of the most complicated defenses in the league if not the most complicated. To the point that after Saban left one (maybe more) of the vets on D came out and pretty much said it was just too complicated to be practical. May have been part of the reason we had so many breakdowns in the secondary last year...... Of course it might also have been because our secondary was just not that great, which is my fear. Its largely the same this year so hopefully either the extra year together or the simplification of the scheme will lead to fewer misscommunications which seemed to come at very costly times last year.

One other change on D is that our D line coach from last year Dan Quinn left us and ended up with the Jets. Just something to keep in mind as he did an outstanding job for us last year. (SF actually offered him their DC job but he turned it down as Saban hadn't been fired yet) He is a young guy on the rise and I fear he will be a large asset to the jets. I was very unhappy when he landed there.

The other big change is the addition of Joey Porter to the LB core. I wont defend his recent off the field behavior because to me it was an embarrisment but on the field he will be a defiant upgrade to the guy he replaces, Donnie Spragen. It may be true that Porter is no longer what he once was but unlike his situation with the Steelers he wont be the primary pass rusher for us. That would be JT and if teams chose to double him (and they will) Joey should have much clearer lanes to rush than he had last year.

Overall I think our D got better from last year since we didn't lose anyone of significance and added some young talent in the draft (namely the NT Paul Soliai) along with the aforementioned Joey Porter. Honestly the D is what I think gives us a shot this year, especially early, as I think our offense could take some time (maybe quite a bit) to sort itself out.

[Static]

That was his first career concussion LT:wtf:

He missed quite a few games because of that one concussion......

[dolphan117]

He missed quite a few games because of that one concussion......I'm kinda split on how important I think it is. At the age of 37 if this is his first concussion than I don't think he is particularly concussion prone... Unless this concussion makes future concussions more likely but so far I haven't seen any medical proof that suggests that. IMO the bigger worry is just his age and that many QB's skill sets tend to start declining around that age. Only time will tell but the only guy I can think of who really played extremely well at that age was Rich Gannon.

Another thing that Gannon and Green have in common though is that they are/did play in offenses that they were extremely familiar with. If we were asking Green to step into a new offense and be the guy I would be inconsolable right now, but for us he will probably know the offense better than anyone else on the team.

[tat2dmike77]

Trent Green is certainly above the class of Brad Johnson. And while age isnt on his side I think hes a solid 1-2 year option. Trent will still hang 3500 yards over 16 games.

IF he (green) stays healthy then he might get those numbers.

[feelthepain]

IF he (green) stays healthy then he might get those numbers.




IFJP can continue to improve on his final 8 games from last year, even though it took three years just to get avg. QB play from him.

IFThe Bills get improved play from their Oline,


IFThe Bills get more production from their WR's beyond Evans,



IFThe Bills can field a TE,



IFThe Bills get more then just rookie play from their new RB,



IFThe Bills can find a Dline that can actually stop the run,



IFThe Bills LB's and DB's can actually improve with far less experience then the year before.



IFThe Bills can do all that, they might be able to win the same amount of games as last year.


Since we're playing the IFgame!

[Dr. Lecter]

:rolleyes:

Funny part is none of those happened last year and the Bills still had a better record than the fishies. And beat them twice.

Gee, I wonder what will happen this year?

[Dr. Lecter]

BTW, Green is a great pick-up to teach Beck.

But, if the O-line does not hold up for him, it could be ugly.

[feelthepain]

:rolleyes:

Funny part is none of those happened last year and the Bills still had a better record than the fishies. And beat them twice.

Gee, I wonder what will happen this year?

Gee, I don't know will MM be calling the plays and will Joey Harrington be the QB?

[feelthepain]

BTW, Green is a great pick-up to teach Beck.

But, if the O-line does not hold up for him, it could be ugly.

Could you not say the same thing about the Bills Oline, with a rookie RB behind them? I think you can, and what about your inexperienced Defense?

[Dr. Lecter]

Since this thread about the Dolphins, I was commenting there.

A rookie RB is not a big problem. It is probably the easiest position to adjust to in the NFL.

And yes, the defense is young. They will likely have some growing pains.

[feelthepain]

BTW, Green is a great pick-up to teach Beck.

But, if the O-line does not hold up for him, it could be ugly.

BTW, I'm not sold on Green, I was just bringing up valid points about the Bills, because some Bill fans think the Bill's are beyond concern.

[Dr. Lecter]

lol!

Yeah some do. They are almost as sensitive as you are to Fishie criticism. :D

[feelthepain]

Since this thread about the Dolphins, I was commenting there.

A rookie RB is not a big problem. It is probably the easiest position to adjust to in the NFL.

And yes, the defense is young. They will likely have some growing pains.

I understand this is about the Dolphins, but some Bill fans like to ignore their issues, but point fingers at everyone elses issues. And I also think the "IF" point about Green is an obvious one.

[feelthepain]

lol!

Yeah some do. They are almost as sensitive as you are to Fishie criticism. :D

Well obviously 90% of Bill fans here consider the Bills moves upgrades before they even take a snap, while everyone else has to play and prove they've upgraded.....funny how that works. I think there is a lot of evidence on my part about taking a wait and see attitude.

[mysticsoto]

Gee, I don't know will MM be calling the plays and will Joey Harrington be the QB?

My how FTP's tune has changed:


You need to let it go man, it's not good to hang on to the hate, it's also not good to blame everything that happend to the Bills last year all on MM, who will you blame this year?? Mularkey is a good OC when he has the talent to coach. Miami has the talent and I'll promise you if MM pulls anything dumb, Saban will end it real quick. Saban proved last year he will step in and make changes if he feels someone is a liability.

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?p=1565384&postcount=20



Well since all we have to work with is what players have done, it's a no brainer to say no QB on the Bills roster is better then Joey. He has the passing yards and the most experience of the four QB's we are talking about. Harrington, Losman, Holcomb and Nall. Joey also has at least one full season of very good success. None of the QB's on the Bills roster has that. This isn't about knocking the Bills QB's it's about qaulity of QB's on each team.

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?p=1608354&postcount=35

[feelthepain]

Mularkey is a good OC when he has the talent to coach.

He didn't have the talent to fit the system he likes to run in Miami and when he was in Pittsburgh he proved he could win with talent that fits what he likes to do. He was also forced to use Scott Linehans previous sytem, while Saban would alos call plays during the games last year. It's was not exactly MM running Miami's offense last year, he was just placed in the OC position.


it's a no brainer to say no QB on the Bills roster is better then Joey.

Joey's career stats are better then JP's or any QB the Bills have. Joey was a Dolphin for just one season and just 6 months before he started. It took JP 3 years to get avg. QB play out of him and if you look at Harringtons best year and JP's best year Joey's is better. I stand by what I said. There is no way given all the injuries last year it was an ideal situation for MM or Joey Harrington. I would take Trent Green and Cam Cameron over Joey Harrington and MM any day of the week, does that mean I don't think MM and Joey Harrington are very good? No, but this years situation is better then last years.

BTW, Joey had the 13th best passing offense and JP had the 28th in 06.
MM had the 20th ranked offense in the NFL in 06 while Steve Fairchild had the 28th best Offense.

[mysticsoto]

He didn't have the talent to fit the system he likes to run in Miami and when he was in Pittsburgh he proved he could win with talent that fits what he likes to do. He was also forced to use Scott Linehans previous sytem, while Saban would alos call plays during the games last year. It's was not exactly MM running Miami's offense last year, he was just placed in the OC position.

Really? So Saban made that crucial call in that game that had Ronnie Brown performing a half back option??? That seemed more like classic MM to me...



Joey's career stats are better then JP's or any QB the Bills have. Joey was a Dolphin for just one season and just 6 months before he started. It took JP 3 years to get avg. QB play out of him and if you look at Harringtons best year and JP's best year Joey's is better. I stand by what I said. There is no way given all the injuries last year it was an ideal situation for MM or Joey Harrington. I would take Trent Green and Cam Cameron over Joey Harrington and MM any day of the week, does that mean I don't think MM and Joey Harrington are very good? No, but this years situation is better then last years.

BTW, Joey had the 13th best passing offense and JP had the 28th in 06.
MM had the 20th ranked offense in the NFL in 06 while Steve Fairchild had the 28th best Offense.

What matters is the outcome...who's still a starter? And who was dumped? Fine, it took JP 3 years to get avg...it took Joey 5 years to move to backup b'cse he's not good enough to start.

And you clearly have shown why stats can be meaningless. Joey had the 13th best passing offense, your defense was supposedly highly rated, yet you lost more games than we did - not to mention we swept you twice!!! When it all comes down to it, the W/L stat is what counts the most and your 13th best passing and highly vaunted D were whooped by our 28th offense and you were swept by us!!! And our D who you like to criticize as not being able to stop the run left "13th best passing offense" Joey with a 0.0 rating!!! ...In case you forgot.

[feelthepain]

Really? So Saban made that crucial call in that game that had Ronnie Brown performing a half back option??? That seemed more like classic MM to me...

I also believe that play was all MM, but go back and watch it again the play was there, the execution wasn't. And one play out of the nearly 500 plays that were called last year and it's all MM? I don't think so, nevertheless as I stated the situation was far from ideal, too many injuries, Joey had little experience with the offense and players, MM wasn't exactly experienced in the version of the "Air Coryell" system that Linehan was running, Saban had way to much to say in the situation. It was just a mess. You couldn't place all the blame on MM last year.




What matters is the outcome...who's still a starter? And who was dumped? Fine, it took JP 3 years to get avg...it took Joey 5 years to move to backup b'cse he's not good enough to start.


Are you serious with this paragraph? Joey's numbers as a pro are far better then JP's. Say what you like about Harrington, but the situation in Detroit has been bad for years. In Miami the coaching situation has changed again and with changes....come change. JP has yet to have even a 500 season as a pro. JP has done nothing to prove he worthy of anything, the Bills simply have no other options at this point. Obviously your FO isn't as high on JP as you are though or they wouldn't have spent another first day pick on a QB. You don't spend a first day pick on a QB if you already have a starting QB...unless you're not 100% sold on your QB.


And you clearly have shown why stats can be meaningless. Joey had the 13th best passing offense, your defense was supposedly highly rated, yet you lost more games than we did - not to mention we swept you twice!!! When it all comes down to it, the W/L stat is what counts the most and your 13th best passing and highly vaunted D were whooped by our 28th offense and you were swept by us!!! And our D who you like to criticize as not being able to stop the run left "13th best passing offense" Joey with a 0.0 rating!!! ...In case you forgot.

We lost more games but the teams we beat were better teams...by far then the Bills beat. We lost 3 of the first 4 because we were playing a QB that wasn't ready to return because of his injuries. In that time we had 21 sacks in 4 games. After Joey stepped in Miami started to play much better, but injuries started to pile up, the playcalling was inconsistent and a huge part of winning in the NFL is confidence, we didn't have much. As I pointed out MM inexperience with Scott Linehans offense cost us games, the playcalling was shaky at best. You only get 16 games in a season, not a whole lotta time to work out the kinks.

Winning and losing games can fall on one play, the stats you amass over a 16 game season is a more telling evaluation of a teams ability, cause you play atleast 8 non non divisional games against teams you se only occasionally. The way you preform in those games is where you see how you stack up, not against division rivals that know how to play you. You could be the worts team in the league and still win division games cause that's just the way it is and you know this. Miami and Buffalos overall stats cover 16 games, not 2 not 4 but 16. After 16 games Miami had the better offenssive stats and defensive stats, they did so with two key people OC MM, QB Joey Harrington having never worked together before. Not to mention Daunte took the majority of the snaps in camp and practices during the all of Mini camp and the first 4 games of the season.

You want to ignore all the facts go right ahead, but it wasn't like we were perfectly healthy and had the same system for 10 years and the Bills just came in and handled us twice last year, not even close. What if the rolls are reversed this year and the Bills are the ones with all the injuries and Miami wins both games are you going to just ignore all the facts like Miami just beat the best the Bills had to offer? Hell no!

[dolphan117]

I think you can put a tone of blame on MM. Not all the blame for our offensive ineptitude falls on MM but a whole lot of it does. There is a reason that he went from HC of the Bills to OC of and TE coach.

The dude has fallen all the way to being a position coach, for the simple reason that no one else will give him anything better. And the reason is that during his time directing both the Bills and Dolphins offenses he did a pretty crappy job.

[Voltron]

So I was just reading about Culpep being all pissed off at Miami and being banned from practice. So what are your thoughts on that? I think that Culpep said he was feeling better than he actually was and is now blaming the Miami Management for things he brought on himself by telling the training staff he was ready before he was 100%.

JMO

[DraftBoy]

Draftboy maybe you know a little about him, I didnt see him play much in college.

Positives:
-Extremely raw, played OG until Junior year.
-Massive 6'4, 344lbs
-Plugger
-Takes up 2-3 blockers
-Can collapse pocket

Negatives:
-Slow
-Sluggish
-Lacks explosive first step
-Does not locate the ball well
-1 to 2 down player at max

Overall I didnt like the pick as early as he went, I think he has big time durability and endurance issues.

[feelthepain]

Overall I didnt like the pick as early as he went, I think he has big time durability and endurance issues.


Gee, seems to be a theme with Bill fans, what are the odds? Funny though, I can't seem to find this opinion from Bill fans with any of the Bills picks, hmmm interesting. BTW, what does the draft magazine you're reading say about Brady Quinn? And where was he drafted?

[dolphan117]

So I was just reading about Culpep being all pissed off at Miami and being banned from practice. So what are your thoughts on that? I think that Culpep said he was feeling better than he actually was and is now blaming the Miami Management for things he brought on himself by telling the training staff he was ready before he was 100%.

JMOPart of it was probably his fault but to me the final blame is with the medical staff and Saban. Players always want to play and competitors always want to be on the field, its up to the coaching and medical staff to make sure they are really up to it and in Peps case last year it doesn't look like he really was. That being said our O line didn't help anything last year.

As the year went on they gelled and did improve but to start out they were brutal. Pep got the crap pounded out of him to the point that when Saban benched him he was talking about how if he left Pep out there he would be putting Peps career in jeopardy...... And the funny thing is that Culpepper still got in a yelling match with Saban over being benched. Say what you will about Pep being washed up or not having the highest wonderlic score but the dude is a player. Even as beat up as he was he still had to be dragged off the field.

As to the QB situation I just don't know. Pep is only 31 and I could definitely see him having some more success in this league if he is indeed healthy.... But it just appears that Cam doesn't have any confidence in him. There has been a lively ongoing debate in the VIP section of finheaven over whether or not Cam would keep Pep or whether Green was going to be brought in as the starter.

To back up just a bit Cam said a couple things after he came on board. One was that the QB job is something that is never "handed" to anyone, its earned. Another thing he said about Pep was that its not really fair to judge a guy until healthy..... Partly because of both of those things and partly because I just don't see the value in dumping Pep at this point I was really hoping that Green was more of an insurance policy that a guy they expected to come in and start day one no questions asked.

Now that the Green trade has went down we find out that Green's contract has a base salary this year of 4.5 million along with a 1.5 million dollar signing bonus with another 2.45 million in incentives that can be earned if Green takes 75% of the teams snaps at qb and the team achieves certain things in the playoffs.(not specified exactly what those playoff achievements have to be) So all said and done Green has a cap hit this year of 6 million that could go to 8.45 mill if we make a deep run, basically he is the starter. You can say what you want about competition and I'm sure the staff will say he won the job in camp ect but if you give a QB that kind of money you are bringing him in to start. Period.

Which makes me think that Pep has been out of the plan for quite some time. Last year while Pep was out and Jeoy had just won a game (this was before he started really sucking it up) a reporter asked Chambers, Booker, and Ronnie if Pep was the guy when healthy and their response was "Absolutely, no question". A couple weeks ago our DT Vonnie Holliday was asked about it and he said there was no question Pep was the guy if healthy, then a little over a week ago JT made a point of how Pep has been working his ass off and how the media wasn't giving him a fair shake. (Florida media had been talking about his being out the door)

So it seems the players have always kinda been in Peps corner and Pep publicly said this was his team until someone told him different. I dont know if that was just public relations or if he felt the staff had given him an indication that he had a chance or what. Regardless of who said or assumed what the dude is gone. And it seems that was the plan for quite some time, which I doubt Pep was told as that info would have decreased our leverage in trying to trade for Green. I guess that's the business side of the NFL, still I wish it had been handled better than our QB coach being the guy to break it to Pep, right in the middle of practice that he wasn't going to be allowed to compete with the other QBs. Confined to 1 on 1 drills. Seems to me that should have been handled by the HC or GM in private and well before practice but that's just my opinion.

The team is doing what it feels it has to by getting Green and the Pep is trying to look after his best interest by declaring he wont re-negotiate his contract as part of a trade, probably because he wants to be able to control where he lands as opposed to just going to the highest bidder. I can see both sides, just wish it hadn't come to this.

[Voltron]

Draftboy is always honest in his assessment of ANY player. I think he is being quite realistic. It is not like he is saying something that none of the Media hasn't already stated. :rolleyes:

[DraftBoy]

Gee, seems to be a theme with Bill fans, what are the odds? Funny though, I can't seem to find this opinion from Bill fans with any of the Bills picks, hmmm interesting. BTW, what does the draft magazine you're reading say about Brady Quinn? And where was he drafted?

Of course typical phin fan, I criticize one of your picks/players and you cry afoul and bias. Forget that you can read any draft guide out there and they will pretty much coincide with my assessment. But hey if you dont like it then by all means turn a blind eye.

As for Quinn, I had him falling to Carolina in one my mocks (which is recorded on this site) and thats the farthest I had seen him falling in any of the "expert" perdictions. However my credibility is well known on this site. Thats why they allow me to write draft articles and rankings for them.

[feelthepain]

Draftboy is always honest in his assessment of ANY player. I think he is being quite realistic. It is not like he is saying something that none of the Media hasn't already stated. :rolleyes:

There's your problem, since when does the media know anything?

[feelthepain]

Of course typical phin fan, I criticize one of your picks/players and you cry afoul and bias. Forget that you can read any draft guide out there and they will pretty much coincide with my assessment. But hey if you dont like it then by all means turn a blind eye.

One? Did you not say the same abut Ginn and Allen? That's more then one. Like I said your opinion of the Bills draft isn't nearly as harsh. But ofcourse it wouldn't be becuse your opinion of a Bills DP negatives aren't nearly as harsh or as important as their positives.



As for Quinn, I had him falling to Carolina in one my mocks (which is recorded on this site) and thats the farthest I had seen him falling in any of the "expert" perdictions. However my credibility is well known on this site. Thats why they allow me to write draft articles and rankings for them.


Anyone can pick up a draft Mag and repeat what's written, not exactly rocket science, and your opinion of Soliai was strikingly similar to the write up on him in the ESPN NFL Draft guide 2007...almost verbatim.

[DraftBoy]

One? Did you not say the same abut Ginn and Allen? That's more then one. Like I said your opinion of the Bills draft isn't nearly as harsh. But ofcourse it wouldn't be becuse your opinion of a Bills DP negatives aren't nearly as harsh or as important as their positives.




Anyone can pick up a draft Mag and repeat what's written, not exactly rocket science, and your opinion of Soliai was strikingly similar to the write up on him in the ESPN NFL Draft guide 2007...almost verbatim.

Have you read one of my bills draft reviews? I am one of the biggest critics of our draft. And I did bash Ginn, but Ive been bashing him since way before Miami picked him. As for Allen I never really bashed him, I said I wasnt sure about him, and that I thought CB was a better posistion for him. And yes my opinion on Soliai is close to ESPN, Sporting News, Lindy's, Athlon, Scout.com, Football Futures, NFLDraftCountdown. As for it being verbatim, apparently you dont read so well, I too have Insider and can see what they wrote in comparison to me. I make no mention of his hands, his awareness, his pass rush moves, his kick blocking ability, his anticipation, a weight problem, or his character issues. Also I dont see where ESPN says anything about durability concern or endurance concerns. Im not expert but the fact that I hit most of what ESPN says about him, is a great compliment to my reports, not the uneducated opinion of you assuming that I copied down his report from ESPN insider.

[Voltron]

One? Did you not say the same abut Ginn and Allen? That's more then one. Like I said your opinion of the Bills draft isn't nearly as harsh. But ofcourse it wouldn't be becuse your opinion of a Bills DP negatives aren't nearly as harsh or as important as their positives.




Anyone can pick up a draft Mag and repeat what's written, not exactly rocket science, and your opinion of Soliai was strikingly similar to the write up on him in the ESPN NFL Draft guide 2007...almost verbatim.
Um do you have any Idea what you are talking about? Take a look at the pre draft guides on the BZ front page and then you show me what draft guide Draftboy has "repeated".

Your remarks are not only baseless they are rude and disrespectful. I don't even want to think about the HOURS if not DAYS that go into preparing and writing those guides. If you took the time to look thru them you may find yourself trying to pull your foot out of your mouth.

Of course you need to take your head out of your ass before you can get the foot out of your mouth.

[mysticsoto]

Gee, seems to be a theme with Bill fans, what are the odds? Funny though, I can't seem to find this opinion from Bill fans with any of the Bills picks, hmmm interesting. BTW, what does the draft magazine you're reading say about Brady Quinn? And where was he drafted?

Are you sure you want to bring up "themes" ??? B'cse from where I'm standing, themes is what you are all about...anyone that comes to the phins team is going to be "great" in your mind. Let's start with AJ Feeley and how much you defended him as being great and much better than JP. Look where he is now. Then there also was Gus who understood Linehan's plays and would be good. Then Culpepper, who the Fins FO don't even want on the team now. And what about Joey harrington who you said was much better than JP...let's see, he's been moved and demoted to a backup QB position on another team. Besides these people who you trumpeted for the last few years, there was MM who you claimed couldn't do anything with the Bills b'cse there was a lack of talent. In Miami, he also did nothing - except cause you to lose...now your new excuse is that he didn't have the kind of talent he needed in Miami. Sorry, there was very little talent at all in Miami last year!!! Lastly, you trumpeted Saban who was going to be the Dolphin savior and look at what he did. He left the Fins in worse condition than when he got the team. This year, your trumpeting Cam and Ginn...It's all about the theme of anyone who comes to Miami automatically is going to lift the team to great heights. Going by your track record, however, every time you trumpet someone, we can expect them to suck and leave your team worse off. So please...by all means, continue to trumpet them!!!

[mysticsoto]

Um do you have any Idea what you are talking about? Take a look at the pre draft guides on the BZ front page and then you show me what draft guide Draftboy has "repeated".

Your remarks are not only baseless they are rude and disrespectful. I don't even want to think about the HOURS if not DAYS that go into preparing and writing those guides. If you took the time to look thru them you may find yourself trying to pull your foot out of your mouth.

Of course you need to take your head out of your ass before you can get the foot out of your mouth.

Yeah, I know how much work DB and others put into this draft guide and it is an amazing piece that they eventually come up with. DB, personally, I thank you and everyone involved for the great work you do on this. Don't ever think that it is not appreciated b'cse of what idiots like FTP say in their posts. You do a fantastic job and it is well appreciated!!!

[justasportsfan]

Devin, you should've said finfans except FTP.

[Voltron]

Devin, you should've said finfans except FTP.
I wonder how he is able to type all that with out being able to see the Monitor. You think he has a wireless monitor connection in his rectum? :huh:

[Devin]

One? Did you not say the same abut Ginn and Allen? That's more then one. Like I said your opinion of the Bills draft isn't nearly as harsh. But ofcourse it wouldn't be becuse your opinion of a Bills DP negatives aren't nearly as harsh or as important as their positives.




Anyone can pick up a draft Mag and repeat what's written, not exactly rocket science, and your opinion of Soliai was strikingly similar to the write up on him in the ESPN NFL Draft guide 2007...almost verbatim.

In his defense I will say DB was not high on Lynch before the draft, even going so far as to say he hoped we didnt draft him.

Ginn I wasnt high on before the draft, neither was DB.

As far as Allen goes I never knew enough about him to really make an analysis. In college I only ever saw 2 of his games.

As for Solai I was just asking because I didnt know much about him. I know he is freakin huge and that he had a low Wonderlic score and thats about it.

[feelthepain]

In his defense I will say DB was not high on Lynch before the draft, even going so far as to say he hoped we didnt draft him.

Ginn I wasnt high on before the draft, neither was DB.

As far as Allen goes I never knew enough about him to really make an analysis. In college I only ever saw 2 of his games.

As for Solai I was just asking because I didnt know much about him. I know he is freakin huge and that he had a low Wonderlic score and thats about it.

My point was basically, unless you're a scout, NFL coach or College coach, you have no more access to a players ability or talent then what you read in the draft guides. As far as DraftBoy's opinion of the Dolphin DP's I'm correct, he thinks everyone we draft, we draft too high. Honestly, I don't put too much stock in "fan forum draft guru's" they rarely know more then me, not because I'm an expert, but because I can get anything I need as far as information by simply using google or any Draft guide.

I could get a better evaluation of a player by looking at the 4 best draft experts opinions and using an avg. to form an opinion. It's not a knock on anyone here, it's just that no matter what someone says, their opinion will more often then not have some bias in it. Which is why DraftBoy comes to the same conclusion with Miami's last 2 first round picks and even a 4th. Think about this, Randy Mueller said he was shocked Soliai was still on the board in the 4th, Drfatboy thinks he was drafted too high, now who do you think has a better grasp of the situation?

This is no guarantee Randy will be correct in the situation, but we do know he has far more access to gamefilm, player interviews, coaching interviews, and private workouts. Randy also knows what Soliai's issues were at Hawaii, I'll bet Draftboy doesn't have access to that information. Bottom line what you read from DraftBoy is nothing more then the basic information you can get from any Draft Mag. This isn't a knock on him, just pointing out that it's not really accurate. Obviously if the people to write those Draft mags knew half of what they print, Brady would have been gone in the top 5.

Players aren't always drafted where they're drafted because the experts think they should be drafted there. In other words, just because experts think Brady Quinn should go to a team in the top 5 doesn't mean Brady fits that team. So if he doesn't fit that team, he won't be drafted there no matter what the "experts say". The problem we are starting to see with these "Draft experts" is rather then matching the skillset to a team they simply generalize and opinion of a player then act shocked when a team passes on them, well if they we truley experts they'd know the player they thought was so incredible isn't going to fit every system, there are alos personalities and attitudes and work ethic....so much more to a player then just their talent. These experts see gamefilm and think that tells the whole story and it doesn't. A perfect example of this is Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round with little if any thought to his future in the NFL by the Drfat experts, but he's now on pace to be a HOF'er, it's obvious intangibles are just as important as talent.

[dolphan117]

In his defense I will say DB was not high on Lynch before the draft, even going so far as to say he hoped we didnt draft him.

Ginn I wasnt high on before the draft, neither was DB.

As far as Allen goes I never knew enough about him to really make an analysis. In college I only ever saw 2 of his games.

As for Solai I was just asking because I didnt know much about him. I know he is freakin huge and that he had a low Wonderlic score and thats about it.Should get some PT even as a rookie because he projects as a NT and we will need a guy to spell Traylor. Doubt he will put up much stat wise as he will pretty much be called on to be that big body in the middle who clogs things up so the LB's can make the play.

Looking over a draft review written by Boomer at Finheaven he points out that when rushing to the left at the combine Solai was 4th quickest of all 38 D lineman tested even though he weighed as much as 100 pounds more than some of them at 344 pounds. Kinda impressive.

[DraftBoy]

Bottom line what you read from DraftBoy is nothing more then the basic information you can get from any Draft Mag. This isn't a knock on him, just pointing out that it's not really accurate.


The only thing worth responding to in your whole post. As far as accuracy goes I think I did quite well this draft. I perdicted a Quinn fall to Carolina which was lower than anybody else and he fell, I said Poz in the 2nd (not to us but I said he'd be there early in that round), I still say (and Ill be right) that Ginn will never be more than a Roscoe Parrish type with much better return skills. I did nail Marques Colston as a key sleeper in last years draft. Im no Mike Maycock and I think I hit like .165 in the 1st round accuracy wise, but Ive only completely missed a report on a few guys. You wouldnt know that because you havent read anything Ive done about any players, and you dont know jack yourself because you really dont care. Instead your whole point is to try and slander me and what I choose to do with my free time. Im no expert and I never claim to be, but I do watch an ass load of college football and I do take notes on the guys who I see making big plays. I also read the experts takes and others fans takes from many other sources. If you dont agree with my assessment thats fine and we can debate that but dont expect me to lower myself into a 3rd grade pissing contest because you want to call me a fraud or a hack. There is a good reason why the guys from FH want nothing to do with you.

[feelthepain]

The only thing worth responding to in your whole post. As far as accuracy goes I think I did quite well this draft. I perdicted a Quinn fall to Carolina which was lower than anybody else and he fell, I said Poz in the 2nd (not to us but I said he'd be there early in that round), I still say (and Ill be right) that Ginn will never be more than a Roscoe Parrish type with much better return skills. I did nail Marques Colston as a key sleeper in last years draft. Im no Mike Maycock and I think I hit like .165 in the 1st round accuracy wise, but Ive only completely missed a report on a few guys. You wouldnt know that because you havent read anything Ive done about any players, and you dont know jack yourself because you really dont care. Instead your whole point is to try and slander me and what I choose to do with my free time. Im no expert and I never claim to be, but I do watch an ass load of college football and I do take notes on the guys who I see making big plays. I also read the experts takes and others fans takes from many other sources. If you dont agree with my assessment thats fine and we can debate that but dont expect me to lower myself into a 3rd grade pissing contest because you want to call me a fraud or a hack. There is a good reason why the guys from FH want nothing to do with you.

Ofcourse you do, you're a Bill fan first and formost.


As for the rest of your post, ahhh, did someone piss in your cheerios or what? God get over yourself Mr.Everything, who cares what one person thinks about your opinion? God you think you're above criticism? You put your opinion out there and don't expect it to be challanged? Get real and deal with the good and bad. You aren't perfect or an expert, you aren't always right and you don't know more then me. I do my own research and I watch games and study film I also read all the "experts" opinions aswell. Everyones entitled to their opinion not just you. As for Finheaven and your opinion of my situation there is way off base, but then again I see a lot of what you write is way off base, so no real surprise there.

[DraftBoy]

Ofcourse you do, you're a Bill fan first and formost.


As for the rest of your post, ahhh, did someone piss in your cheerios or what? God get over yourself Mr.Everything, who cares what one person thinks about your opinion? God you think you're above criticism? You put your opinion out there and don't expect it to be challanged? Get real and deal with the good and bad. You aren't perfect or an expert, you aren't always right and you don't know more then me. I do my own research and I watch games and study film I also read all the "experts" opinions aswell. Everyones entitled to their opinion not just you. As for Finheaven and your opinion of my situation there is way off base, but then again I see a lot of what you write is way off base, so no real surprise there.


Comprehension is a serious issue with you isnt it? Ive bolded the parts Ive responded to.



Ginn I wasnt high on before the draft, neither was DB.
Both I and Devin have said we were way down on Ginn before Miami picked him and I would of criticized Ginn no matter who took him in Round 1. Miami taking him makes no difference to me, and Im tired of you talking crap about me critcizing Allen. Show me where I did so, please.



Im no expert and I never claim to be
Im well aware Im neither perfect or an expert and I had already said so, so what was your point exactly?



If you dont agree with my assessment thats fine and we can debate that
Like I said in my last post I fully expect to be challenged and I am on a daily basis about players, and I welcome those. So again is your reading comprehension that bad?

[feelthepain]

Comprehension is a serious issue with you isnt it? Ive bolded the parts Ive responded to.


Both I and Devin have said we were way down on Ginn before Miami picked him and I would of criticized Ginn no matter who took him in Round 1. Miami taking him makes no difference to me, and Im tired of you talking crap about me critcizing Allen. Show me where I did so, please.


Im well aware Im neither perfect or an expert and I had already said so, so what was your point exactly?


Like I said in my last post I fully expect to be challenged and I am on a daily basis about players, and I welcome those. So again is your reading comprehension that bad?

If any of the above had the slightest bit of truth to iit you wouldn't be all pissy because I don't agree with you or question your opinion, obviously since you got bent out of shape, you have an issue with people not agreeing with you.

I don't care when you claim to have written you an issue with Ginn, it's more of hope then fact, maybe you're a Michigan fan or you hate everything OSU, whatever you're opinion, you're again not looking at where he signed and who is coaching him. He fits Miami and what they want to do. Cam wants Ginn to be a WR threat, he will work real hard with him to become that. Like I said before I don't put much faith in "fan forum Guru's" they are usulally the least educated, least informed and most bias.

[Michael82]

for the record....DraftBoy actually didn't even have Ted Ginn in the top 10 receivers list when he set up the BillsZone draft guide. This was what he told me in a pm on 4-19-07 when I asked him about Ginn.....



I have nothing against Ted Ginn Jr or The Ohio State University (in fact I cheer for them bc I hate Michigan). However I dont share the national media's lovefest for this kid. And Ill explain it here;

Ginn has world class speed, and great athleticism, however he is not an accomplished WR. He has little experience and was not close to best WR on his team. Anthony Gonzalez far outshined Ted Ginn, yet got no attention for it. Ted Ginn has shaky hands (which by far is my biggest concern), he runs extremely lazy routes (another huge negative), does not go over the middle (not such a huge deal), he is undersized, his blocking attempts are just plain laughable, and he has durability concerns. He is an amazing flash in the pan player. However his one big play a game or sportcenter highlight does not outweigh his mental mistakes (and what I conceive to be laziness) that happen from drive to drive.

Im sorry but I feel bad for any team that takes this guy before Round 3, and I think teams are falling in love with his potential, and not his skills. He's an amazing athlete but at this point, atleast imo a bad football player. I like alot of the lesser known guys more and Im confident that they'll be better pros.

[DraftBoy]

If any of the above had the slightest bit of truth to iit you wouldn't be all pissy because I don't agree with you or question your opinion, obviously since you got bent out of shape, you have an issue with people not agreeing with you.

I don't care when you claim to have written you an issue with Ginn, it's more of hope then fact, maybe you're a Michigan fan or you hate everything OSU, whatever you're opinion, you're again not looking at where he signed and who is coaching him. He fits Miami and what they want to do. Cam wants Ginn to be a WR threat, he will work real hard with him to become that. Like I said before I don't put much faith in "fan forum Guru's" they are usulally the least educated, least informed and most bias.


So your response is that no you do not possess reading comprehension skills, and because Miami drafted him he is a god send, good to know. When you want to have an adult conversation about a player, then get back to me.

[G. Host]

So your response is that no you do not possess reading comprehension skills, and because Miami drafted him he is a god send, good to know. When you want to have an adult conversation about a player, then get back to me.

:rofl:

[feelthepain]

for the record....DraftBoy actually didn't even have Ted Ginn in the top 10 receivers list when he set up the BillsZone draft guide. This was what he told me in a pm on 4-19-07 when I asked him about Ginn.....

For the record, I don't put much faith in "draft forum Guru's" his opinion is like everyone elses, nothing worth reading.

[feelthepain]

So your response is that no you do not possess reading comprehension skills, and because Miami drafted him he is a god send, good to know. When you want to have an adult conversation about a player, then get back to me.

Talk about reading comprehension....where did I say he was a god send?? Hey ya know what, obviously you can't handle criticism, too bad! Stop whining about it, your opinion has little value, you spend more time whining over somneone not agreeing with you then you do studying the players in College. Don't you have a draft mag you could be stealing information from then claiming you know what you're talking about???

[justasportsfan]

Honestly, I don't put too much stock in "fan forum draft guru's" they rarely know more then me, not because I'm an expert, but because I can get anything I need as far as information by simply using google or any Draft guide


I could get a better evaluation of a player by looking at the 4 best draft experts opinions and using an avg. to form an opinion .. Haha! You should've googled AJ Feeley, Daunte injury . You should've listened to a bills fan about Bennie and Moolarkey's stupidity then you'd have more accurate info. than the one you pull out of your arse. What a joke.

[dolphan117]

For the record, I don't put much faith in "draft forum Guru's" his opinion is like everyone elses, nothing worth reading.One wonders why you visit this forum if no ones opinion is worth reading. :scratch:

[feelthepain]

One wonders why you visit this forum if no ones opinion is worth reading. :scratch:

I didn't say "no one"! I said his opinion is like everyone elses. His bias opinion isn't worth reading.

[justasportsfan]

I didn't say "no one"! I said his opinion is like everyone elses. His bias opinion isn't worth reading.
look who calling people bias. The one who thought Bennie and moolarkey were headed to canton.