Blog: Bills working with 5-receiver sets

[Philagape]

Like his mentor Mike Martz, Bills offensive coordinator Steve Fairchild is preparing J.P. Losman and his youthful receivers to go to the next level. This means that Buffalo has been working on five receiver sets this off-season, believing that the free-agent offensive line acquisitions will allow Losman the time to go deep and throw, throw, throw.

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/NFL_Czar/2007/06/12/High_hopes_in_Buffalo

[cocamide]

If JP gets the time to throw it, this offense could be extremely exciting.

[Tatonka]

i like what we could use for a 5 wr set..

evans and price on the outside.. reed and parrish on the inside.. then either split everett or royal out wide, or have lynch or wright roll out of the backfield.

god i cant wait to see some real football.. preseason is going to suck cuz they wont show any of that ****, although i cant wait to see our new running backs at work in any game.

[Tatonka]

phil.. what the **** is the third gif down in your sig? it is freaking me out.

[Carlton Bailey]

phil.. what the **** is the third gif down in your sig? it is freaking me out.

It looks like a nostril with a deformed, eyeless tiger head emerging from it.

[Confused]

that story lost all credibility when they said"much improved jets" and my personal favorite"always reliable Dolphins". (fartnoise)

[thesquirrelking]

I like how Jauron's first name was "BLEEP" in that article. Perfect censorship.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Good Old Bleep Jauron... glad to have him as our coach

[Mr. Miyagi]

What a bleep head that bleep Jauron is. He's bleeping around with the offense LOL.

[Typ0]

I'm pretty excited about the offense myself. If the D can hold ground it should be an interesting season at least.

[Dr. Lecter]

If this O-line can give JP time, think what 5 WR's can do!!

Evans and one other deep, with Lynch/Reed/Royal staying short as a safety valve.

Or, if there is nobody open, JP might have room to run and get good yardage!

I like the idea.

[Mr. Miyagi]

evans and price on the outside.. reed and parrish on the inside.. then either split everett or royal out wide, or have lynch or wright roll out of the backfield.
Yes I'm excited about our offense too. But play along with me:

Substitute "Evans and Price" with "Moss and Stallworth", "Reed and Parrish" with "Welker and Washington", "Everett" with "Watson", "Lynch" with "Maroney" and last but not least "JP" with "Brady". Holy crap. :eek:

Damn you New England Patriots. :mad:

[madness]

Yes I'm excited about our offense too. But play along with me:

Substitute "Evans and Price" with "Moss and Stallworth", "Reed and Parrish" with "Welker and Washington", "Everett" with "Watson", "Lynch" with "Maroney" and last but not least "JP" with "Brady". Holy crap. :eek:

Damn you New England Patriots. :mad:

Moss + Stallworth = Evans

[OpIv37]

AWFUL idea. First, we need a power running game to take pressure off the D- 5 WR sets will lead to a lot of short drives. Second, later in the year it's going to be hard to pass in Buffalo- remember how Gilbride's offense faded late in the year? Third, we don't have 5 decent receivers. Fourth, the OL's we added are known more for run blocking than pass blocking (although the pass blocking should still be improved over last year).

I mean, a 5 WR play or two as a wrinkle in the offense is fine, but this article mentions a "pass first" offense. Believe me- it will be a LONG season if the Bills implement that strategy.

[tampabay25690]

If JP gets the time to throw it, this offense could be extremely exciting.

Yes it would. I think we would have a great speedy 5 WR set....

Would be so fun to watch, and JP has an arm on him...:dance:

[justasportsfan]

In a 5 wr set, a qb who can spread the ball is ideal and JP is such a qb. The only problem with the 5 wr set is that people are going to be complaining how we lack a no.2 wr and say that either Price or Reed suck.

[OpIv37]

In a 5 wr set, a qb who can spread the ball is ideal and JP is such a qb. The only problem with the 5 wr set is that people are going to be complaining how we lack a no.2 wr and say that either Price or Reed suck.

actually they both suck and so do our TE's.

Anyway it doesn't matter- 5 WR sets are not good for ball control offenses, and we need a ball control offense to take pressure off the D. It's a bad idea even with better personnel.

[Philagape]

phil.. what the **** is the third gif down in your sig? it is freaking me out.

It's a wookie! :nerd:

[justasportsfan]

actually they both suck and so do our TE's.

.Your opinion. Not fact.

[Dr. Lecter]

It sounds like they are practicing this formation and the writer makes it sounds as if they will abandon the run.

I would love to see this formation used occassionally.

Reed, btw, does not suck. He is a solid possession guy. I would think he and Price will be better without the need for max protection this year.

[OpIv37]

Your opinion. Not fact.

Kevin Everett: 1 reception for 1 yard. Yeah, that's my opinion.
Price: Lowest YPC in NFL. Yeah, that's my opinion.

[Dr. Lecter]

Kevin Everett: 1 reception for 1 yard. Yeah, that's my opinion.

Let's see what he does this year before we declare him as sucking. He played one year.

But hey, let's cut everybody after one year and change 40 guys a year on the roster!

[OpIv37]

Let's see what he does this year before we declare him as sucking. He played one year.

But hey, let's cut everybody after one year and change 40 guys a year on the roster!

or we could just hold onto guys for 6 years before we decide they're not good enough. That's a winning strategy too :rolleyes:.

[Dr. Lecter]

Who said 6 years????

He played one year coming off a serious knee injury.

Can we at least see him this year?

Look at Moulds first 2 years. Pat Williams never played in year 1. Losman was lost his first 8 games. Schobel was beat up quite often.

Some players take time to develop and learn. Instant gratification is rare in the NFL. But that is what some people want. Marv can't build a ****ing team, because we need to be fully satisfied right away.

It is symbolic of the nation. We need Fox and CNN because they give us immediate updates, without any in depth work.

Patience butterfly.

[madness]

5 WR sets are not good for ball control offenses

Ball control is not predicated to any type of formation just as a power running game isn't just to the I-formation.

[OpIv37]

Who said 6 years????

He played one year coming off a serious knee injury.

Can we at least see him this year?

Look at Moulds first 2 years. Pat Williams never played in year 1. Losman was lost his first 8 games. Schobel was beat up quite often.

Some players take time to develop and learn. Instant gratification is rare in the NFL. But that is what some people want. Marv can't build a ****ing team, because we need to be fully satisfied right away.

It is symbolic of the nation. We need Fox and CNN because they give us immediate updates, without any in depth work.

Patience butterfly.

sorry, it's been 7 years and my patience ran out 5 years ago.

as far as building a team, tell me this:

Which positions are clearly better now than they were in 2006?

OL and arguably RB (and while I think Lynch is better than McGahee, I hesitate to see that until we actually see him in a game).

That's it.

We were 7-9 last year and we upgraded two positions while clearly downgrading CB and arguably downgrading LB.

We can do better than that without going for "instant gratification". That's what people like you and justa don't understand.

Aside from just patience, we don't have infinite time to rebuild. Schobel's getting old. Losman, Evans and other key players will eventually need new contracts. Players age, players get injured, players leave via FA etc.

[OpIv37]

Ball control is not predicated to any type of formation just as a power running game isn't just to the I-formation.

more passing means more incompletions. Incompletions stop the clock. It's much easier to run a ball-control offense with a run-first mentality than with a pass-first mentality. Hell, even the K gun had issues with TOP that put pressure on the D at times.

[Dr. Lecter]

I would say safety is better since two rookies started last year.

I would speculate that the improved O-line helps other positions (like TE, QB and WR) by allowing more players out in patterns.

I would say QB is better, as experience in the league and with the system will help JP.

You see, you are taking a micro look at improvement, acting as if only outside forces can help. That is not the case. Internal forces can help too.

As for the patience thing, do you not realize that the building was torn down and is being re-built???? Why continue to blame and ***** about the current administration and bring in 7 years ago???

Why continue to use the TD band-aid technique, when a team can be built to be good for the long term?

Woudl you rather have one or two good season now or multiple good season is a few years?

[madness]

more passing means more incompletions. Incompletions stop the clock. It's much easier to run a ball-control offense with a run-first mentality than with a pass-first mentality. Hell, even the K gun had issues with TOP that put pressure on the D at times.

Since when does a 5 receiver set indicate we are going to pass more? All that means is that they are opening up the playbook. You're making assumptions once again.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Kevin Everett: 1 reception for 1 yard. Yeah, that's my opinion.
Price: Lowest YPC in NFL. Yeah, that's my opinion.
Everett: How many times thrown at in those 4 games he played? He can't catch if the ball doesn't get thrown to him.

Price: 8.2 YPC is the lowest in the NFL? That's completely fiction Op.

Making **** up is not just an opinion. It's lying.

[OpIv37]

Since when does a 5 receiver set indicate we are going to pass more? All that means is that they are opening up the playbook. You're making assumptions once again.

so are you- you are assuming the OL is good enough to run from a 5 WR set with no proof.

[OpIv37]

Everett: How many times thrown at in those 4 games he played? He can't catch if the ball doesn't get thrown to him.

Price: 8.2 YPC is the lowest in the NFL? That's completely fiction Op.

Making **** up is not just an opinion. It's lying.

it's the lowest amongst receivers who had enough receptions to be ranked on the NFL's receivers chart. Sorry if I didn't specify it enough, but it's fact- not fiction.

oh, and if Everett was any good, why did he only appear in 4 games? I don't recall him being injured in 06.

[Dr. Lecter]

Pat Williams appeared in 1 game his rookie year.

He must have sucked.

You know knee injuries can take more than year to come back from. The chances of Everett coming around are not great, but it is not a lost cause.

[OpIv37]

Pat Williams appeared in 1 game his rookie year.

He must have sucked.

You know knee injuries can take more than year to come back from. The chances of Everett coming around are not great, but it is not a lost cause.

see, even you admit he's not likely to come around, yet you're defending him. What gives?

[TigerJ]

AWFUL idea. First, we need a power running game to take pressure off the D- 5 WR sets will lead to a lot of short drives. Second, later in the year it's going to be hard to pass in Buffalo- remember how Gilbride's offense faded late in the year? Third, we don't have 5 decent receivers. Fourth, the OL's we added are known more for run blocking than pass blocking (although the pass blocking should still be improved over last year).

I mean, a 5 WR play or two as a wrinkle in the offense is fine, but this article mentions a "pass first" offense. Believe me- it will be a LONG season if the Bills implement that strategy.

I agree, but I can't believe that Fairchild, in spite of having worked with Martz, would ever consider making that kind of offense a staple in the Bills' diet. I think Fairchild will remember his routes as a running back coach, and continue to give the running back carries on the ground. I could see him spreading the offense and giving Lynch a lot of carries from a passing formation. In the end, I would expect a ratio of about 60/40 passing to running, maybe a little more passing than running. Jauron knows he has to protect his defense some, especially at the start of the season, and win the time of possession battle.

[justasportsfan]

Kevin Everett: 1 reception for 1 yard. Yeah, that's my opinion.
Price: Lowest YPC in NFL. Yeah, that's my opinion.
see, we were talking about reed and Royals and you switch to Price and Everrett just to get away from that subject. :rolleyes:

Price never played with JP. All our TE's suck and other than Evans our wr's suck. Yeah , It's all their fault that JP was struggling , learning a new offense no OL .

Heaven knows the wr's and TE's game have nothing to do with the qb. The qb is a different position. :rolleyes:

We'll see what Price can do now. Same goes with Everrett

In your world depending on whether you like a player, this or that guy sucks even though JP has something to do with it. JP get's a pass okay :rolleyes:

[OpIv37]

see, we were talking about reed and Royals and you switch to Price and Everrett just to get away from that subject. :rolleyes:

Price never played with JP. All our TE's suck and other than Evans our wr's suck. Yeah , It's all their fault that JP was struggling , learning a new offense no OL .

Heaven knows the wr's and TE's game have nothing to do with the qb. The qb is a different position. :rolleyes:

We'll see what Price can do now. Same goes with Everrett

In your world depending on whether you like a player, this or that guy sucks even though JP has something to do with it. JP get's a pass okay :rolleyes:

Um, are you seriously trying to argue that we haven't seen what Price can do yet? The guy's been in the league for like 6 ****ing years! For Everett, maybe you can use that "we'll see" logic" but Price has had ample opportunities to prove himself and has yet to do it.

Oh, and I thought JP has been improving. Now suddenly it's his fault that Everett and Price are struggling? Was JP the QB in Dallas? Was he the QB in Atlanta?

Was it JP's fault that Everett couldn't even beat out a mediocre Royal to get on the field?

Get real.

[Mr. Miyagi]

You know what, I"m getting very sick and tired of wanting the Bills to blow everyone away just so that we can show up not only our rivals and the national media, but also some of our very own so-called fans.

Hey if you think the team sucks so bad, go away and root for someone else. Stop being a ****ing cancer and poison the fanbase.

:mad::mad:

[OpIv37]

You know what, I"m getting very sick and tired of wanting the Bills to blow everyone away just so that we can show up not only our rivals and the national media, but also some of our very own fans.

Hey if you think the team sucks so bad, go away and root for someone else. Stop being a ****ing cancer and poison the fanbase.

:mad::mad:

if it were that easy I would have done it a long time ago. Unlike some people here, I'm not willing to sell the team out just because I think they're gonna blow. I don't know why some of you call yourselves "fans" but then have to convince yourself the team is better than it is to root for them.

[Mr. Miyagi]

if it were that easy I would have done it a long time ago. Unlike some people here, I'm not willing to sell the team out just because I think they're gonna blow. I don't know why some of you call yourselves "fans" but then have to convince yourself the team is better than it is to root for them.
Like I said, when I start having to worry and stress myself out with every weakness of the team, it ceases to be fun and beyond what my role should be as a fan. That's when I would become a fanatic and people will tell you to go get a life. That ain't me.


I didn't read all the pages on this thread past the first 2, so forgive me if I'm repeating some of what's been said.

To me, watching football and rooting for the Bills is a hobby, which means it's something I do for fun, to relax and enjoy. Constantly worrying and ranting about the team is not fun and entertaining, thus it ceases to be a hobby, and becomes stress. I have enough of that at work which I get paid for. I ain't doing that for free.

Obviously to some other people, their hobby IS to worry and rant. Be my guest. Just don't expect to drag me into that hole.

[madness]

it's the lowest amongst receivers who had enough receptions to be ranked on the NFL's receivers chart. Sorry if I didn't specify it enough, but it's fact- not fiction.

oh, and if Everett was any good, why did he only appear in 4 games? I don't recall him being injured in 06.

No it's not, I just checked NFL.com.

Maybe because Everett was basically a rookie last year learning a new playbook. Fairchild said Everett is a totally complete player compared to last year. He has the playbook down and has really worked hard because of his play last year. Even Royal commented in the same article on how Everett has really stepped it up.

[OpIv37]

No it's not, I just checked NFL.com.

Maybe because Everett was basically a rookie last year learning a new playbook. Fairchild said Everett is a totally complete player compared to last year. He has the playbook down and has really worked hard because of his play last year. Even Royal commented in the same article on how Everett has really stepped it up.

and because they said that TO THE MEDIA, it's automatically true? I don't know why I have to explain this all the time- coaches and players have to play the PR game. They have to keep the fans interested and keep the team unity. Fairchild may think Everett is the biggest POS ever but there is no way in hell he would ever say it publically. You need to take those quotes with a grain of salt.

As far as Price- maybe I screwed up the exact ranking or something but 8.2 YPC for a WR is horrible no matter how you look at it.

[madness]

so are you- you are assuming the OL is good enough to run from a 5 WR set with no proof.

Um.. They're doing it right now in camp so the coaching staff thinks so.

What does that have to do with a 5 wide set supposed means we lack ball control because we supposedly are going to pass more? Typical pattern, can't prove your point so you throw in 100 other variables and string the argument along.

Your POV can't and won't be changed by any type of logical information presented before you. So in essense, you just argue to argue.

[madness]

and because they said that TO THE MEDIA, it's automatically true? I don't know why I have to explain this all the time- coaches and players have to play the PR game. They have to keep the fans interested and keep the team unity. Fairchild may think Everett is the biggest POS ever but there is no way in hell he would ever say it publically. You need to take those quotes with a grain of salt.

As far as Price- maybe I screwed up the exact ranking or something but 8.2 YPC for a WR is horrible no matter how you look at it.

Yes, it's all a cover up. Let's hype a player who hasn't done **** to keep fans interested and keep team unity. They must be making up how well he's been doing in camp too. :rolleyes:

Are you listening to yourself? Can the conspiracy crap.

[Philagape]

I agree that our WRs behind Evans are mediocre at best, but perhaps a spread offense is the scheme in which they'll be effective. Price, Reed and Parrish will look at lot better against dime backs and LBs than against starting CBs in an I-formation.

[OpIv37]

Um.. They're doing it right now in camp so the coaching staff thinks so.

What does that have to do with a 5 wide set supposed means we lack ball control because we supposedly are going to pass more? Typical pattern, can't prove your point so you throw in 100 other variables and string the argument along.

Your POV can't and won't be changed by any type of logical information presented before you. So in essense, you just argue to argue.

Um, 5 WR's means less blockers, making it harder to run. I don't know what's so illogical about that.

Um, being able to run from a 5 WR set means the OL must be good enough to run block without help from a FB or a TE, so I don't know why you find that to be irrelevant.

You are trying to argue that it's just as easy to run a ball control offense from a 5 WR set as it is from a more traditional set, and you're simply wrong.

[OpIv37]

Yes, it's all a cover up. Let's hype a player who hasn't done **** to keep fans interested and keep team unity. They must be making up how well he's been doing in camp too. :rolleyes:

Are you listening to yourself? Can the conspiracy crap.

What conspiracy crap? Can the naivete crap and accept the fact that players, coaches, politicians, celebrities, whoever can't always express their true opinions to the media.

[Jeff1220]

Like his mentor Mike Martz, Bills offensive coordinator Steve Fairchild is preparing J.P. Losman and his youthful receivers to go to the next level. This means that Buffalo has been working on five receiver sets this off-season, believing that the free-agent offensive line acquisitions will allow Losman the time to go deep and throw, throw, throw.

This whole article sounds like the 5-WR set as the base O is pure speculation based on the fact that Fairchild worked under Martz. Have the Bills been practicing in these sets? Well, I've read that they have, but I'd also be willing to bet that they've practiced single and two-back sets as well, but those aren't as exciting to write about.
This article is not really any reason to get overly excited or panicked.

[cocamide]

OpIv, I'm just curious, why do you think Peerless sucks? Is it solely based on his YPC? That stat is rediculously low, so maybe he has lost a step or two. Could it have been the way the offense was run? Evans on the deep patterns and Peerless on little underneath routes where JP can dump it off to him if need be. Just wondering what you guys think.

[justasportsfan]

Um, are you seriously trying to argue that we haven't seen what Price can do yet? The guy's been in the league for like 6 ****ing years! For Everett, maybe you can use that "we'll see" logic" but Price has had ample opportunities to prove himself and has yet to do it.

Oh, and I thought JP has been improving. Now suddenly it's his fault that Everett and Price are struggling? Was JP the QB in Dallas? Was he the QB in Atlanta?

Was it JP's fault that Everett couldn't even beat out a mediocre Royal to get on the field?

Get real.
I am not arguing Everrett. Even Cieslak was better. However I am arguing that other then Evans , all our wr's an TE's suck in your world. It's no surprise because your world cannot understand that there are other factors that go into the passing game like the QB. JP has something to do with that yet he get's a pass from you. Don't give me that BS that it's a different position.


When JP had time to throw, everyone's numbers went up yet other than Evans they all suck. Okay :rolleyes:

Price may not have had monster numbers because JP was spreading the ball , Hellooooooo!!!!! Jp also had limited playbook. Another factor you forgot :rolleyes:

Yes, I am not ready to say Price sucks. We'll see what he can do with a better JP and a open playbook.

In a 5 wr system, Reed and Price can be good ebough because the ball is spread.

[blackonyx89]

Didn't the Rams use 5 receivers in their Greatest Show on Turf offense when they won the Super Bowl?:D

[OpIv37]

I am not arguing Everrett. Even Cieslak was better. However I am arguing that other then Evans , all our wr's an TE's suck in your world. It's no surprise because your world cannot understand that there are other factors that go into the passing game like the QB. JP has something to do with that yet he get's a pass from you. Don't give me that BS that it's a different position.


When JP had time to throw, everyone's numbers went up yet other than Evans they all suck. Okay :rolleyes:

In a 5 wr system, Reed and Price can be good ebough because the ball is spread.

If it's JP's fault, how do you explain Evans? How do you explain Price's struggles in Atlanta and Dallas? how do you explain Royal in Washington?

You're trying to paint this as "my world" because your explanation doesn't account for all the factors either.

As far as Price, that's a good excuse for overall numbers, but not YPC. It shows that Price wasn't getting open down field and wasn't doing anything with the ball after he caught it. That's not JP's fault.

BTW you keep saying I give JP a pass- you seem to forget that I started a thread after the Baltimore game wondering if he had reverted to his old ways and I started a thread around mid-season last year wondering if he had what it took to be an NFL QB. So I absolutely don't give JP a pass. But it's easier to replace TE's and WR's than QB's so I'd rather give JP the tools to see if he's really the problem than try to change QB's.

[madness]

Um, 5 WR's means less blockers, making it harder to run. I don't know what's so illogical about that.

Um, being able to run from a 5 WR set means the OL must be good enough to run block without help from a FB or a TE, so I don't know why you find that to be irrelevant.

You are trying to argue that it's just as easy to run a ball control offense from a 5 WR set as it is from a more traditional set, and you're simply wrong.

I forgot, our O-line automatically is going to suck this year based on the fact they sucked last year. I stand corrected.

That's funny. The Rams never had problems running the ball with Faulk and/or Stephen Jackson. They successfully cranked off over 1,000 yards season after season. I'm sure if you research other teams that use 4 and 5 WR sets you'll find the same thing:

It doesn't matter what formations you use as long as you are moving the ball.

[Dr. Lecter]

see, even you admit he's not likely to come around, yet you're defending him. What gives?

I am saying it is not a lock he will suck like you are.

You take every player and assume the worse like it is a fact. There is no room for even a remote chance something might work out. There is no possibility of a positive outcome. None whatsoever and whenever somebody tries to say it is possible they get branded a Homer.

[OpIv37]

OpIv, I'm just curious, why do you think Peerless sucks? Is it solely based on his YPC? That stat is rediculously low, so maybe he has lost a step or two. Could it have been the way the offense was run? Evans on the deep patterns and Peerless on little underneath routes where JP can dump it off to him if need be. Just wondering what you guys think.

Because Peerless hasn't done anything since he was here with Bledsoe in '02. He was mediocre in Atlanta, he was so bad in Dallas that he got cut mid-season and he was mediocre here last year. It's not that he sucks completely- it's just that neither he nor Reed are good enough to consistently take pressure off of Evans.

[ShadowHawk7]

Until a decent 5th WR steps up (Brown, Cornelius, Aiken, WIlson, etc.) I think for 5 wide we're better off lining up Lynch at WR.

If not, I'd stick to 4 wide with an extra TE to block, or Lynch in the backfield as a screen or draw threat.

[OpIv37]

I am saying it is not a lock he will suck like you are.

You take every player and assume the worse like it is a fact. There is no room for even a remote chance something might work out. There is no possibility of a positive outcome. None whatsoever and whenever somebody tries to say it is possible they get branded a Homer.

Right, If there is a positive outcome on Royal and/or Everett, Lynch, Poz, Crowell not being injured, Ellison, McCargo's injury, the Walker situation, the changes to the OL, the CB situation etc, this team might be somewhat decent.

That's the problem. A whole lot of things would have to work out positively (meaning, the opposite of how they've worked out in the past) for this team to be good.

I'm sure some of them will work out positively, but what is the likelihood that they all will or that enough of them will for this team to be good?

Yeah, yeah, here comes the "every team has question marks". Well guess what? Teams that win don't have nearly this many question marks.

[OpIv37]

I forgot, our O-line automatically is going to suck this year based on the fact they sucked last year. I stand corrected.

That's funny. The Rams never had problems running the ball with Faulk and/or Stephen Jackson. They successfully cranked off over 1,000 yards season after season. I'm sure if you research other teams that use 4 and 5 WR sets you'll find the same thing:

It doesn't matter what formations you use as long as you are moving the ball.

um we CHANGED the OL so they may or may not suck, but until they prove that they're better, how can you go assuming that they're going to be capable of running the ball from a 5 WR set? Everyone jumps all over me for assuming something negative will happen without proof yet no one does it when someone assumes something positive without proof.

As far as the Rams- they always had 2-3 solid receivers. We don't. They play indoors. We don't. BTW, 1000 yard season is only 62.5 yards per game- that's not nearly enough for a ball control offense. And by any chance, do you know what the Rams' TOP stats looked like in those years? I don't know either- just find it curious that you failed to mention it.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Your POV can't and won't be changed by any type of logical information presented before you. So in essense, you just argue to argue.
DING DING DING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[justasportsfan]

If it's JP's fault, how do you explain Evans? How do you explain Price's struggles in Atlanta and Dallas? how do you explain Royal in Washington?

.Evans is a probowler. He's a no.1 . Nobody is arguing that. All I'm arguing is that everyone else sucks. How many no. 1's do you expect a spread out offense to have? 3?

Evans has the ability to go deep. The others don't. Doesn't mean they suck. :rolleyes:

[justasportsfan]

Your POV can't and won't be changed by any type of logical information presented before you. So in essense, you just argue to argue. :10:


the facts are wrong but he is right. :rolleyes:

[Mad Bomber]

Um, 5 WR's means less blockers, making it harder to run. I don't know what's so illogical about that.

Um, being able to run from a 5 WR set means the OL must be good enough to run block without help from a FB or a TE, so I don't know why you find that to be irrelevant.

You are trying to argue that it's just as easy to run a ball control offense from a 5 WR set as it is from a more traditional set, and you're simply wrong.

5 WRs also means the defense is spread. You don't have 8 men in the box daring you to run. The Bills of the early 90s spread the field a lot, and I seem to recall that Thurman had some fairly good rushing stats.

[mysticsoto]

Evans is a probowler. He's a no.1 . Nobody is arguing that. All I'm arguing is that everyone else sucks. How many no. 1's do you expect a spread out offense to have? 3?

Evans has the ability to go deep. The others don't. Doesn't mean they suck. :rolleyes:

Op wants probowlers and stars at every position. If not, they are no good, they suck and our depth sucks on top of that. When I ask him to show me other teams that DON'T lack depth at every position, he is incapable and pulls a "I don't know other teams that well" excuse. Which tells me he just doesn't understand that every team has role players with a few sprinkled stars within. On our team, Evans is already a star and I think the FO is trying to add a Kelly-thurman thomas combo in JP-Lynch. As for the rest, they are role players that at times look good. If the Oline improves, they will look that much better. But Op cannot wait until the season starts, to observe this, so instead he has to bash our role players...

[justasportsfan]

Op wants probowlers and stars at every position. If not, they are no good, they suck and our depth sucks on top of that. ... thenwhen you point him to the redskins , he'll say they are doing it wrong? :rolleyes:

[OpIv37]

Op wants probowlers and stars at every position. If not, they are no good, they suck and our depth sucks on top of that. When I ask him to show me other teams that DON'T lack depth at every position, he is incapable and pulls a "I don't know other teams that well" excuse. Which tells me he just doesn't understand that every team has role players with a few sprinkled stars within. On our team, Evans is already a star and I think the FO is trying to add a Kelly-thurman thomas combo in JP-Lynch. As for the rest, they are role players that at times look good. If the Oline improves, they will look that much better. But Op cannot wait until the season starts, to observe this, so instead he has to bash our role players...

To take a few examples:

Everett had 1 catch for 1 yard
Price averaged 8.2 YPC as a WR
Tripplett had 2.5 sacks and none for the first 10 games.

What you fail to realize is that we can do a LOT better than that without breaking the bank for superstars.

If these guys are good enough, why can't we win with them?

[OpIv37]

thenwhen you point him to the redskins , he'll say they are doing it wrong? :rolleyes:

You seem to think that Marv's way and the Skins way are the only two ways of doing it. You're wrong.

[OpIv37]

5 WRs also means the defense is spread. You don't have 8 men in the box daring you to run. The Bills of the early 90s spread the field a lot, and I seem to recall that Thurman had some fairly good rushing stats.

but they had TOP issues at times. That's what we need to avoid because of the D.

[justasportsfan]

You seem to think that Marv's way and the Skins way are the only two ways of doing it. You're wrong.you're the only one who says that there's only 2 ways. Marv's and redskins.

[OpIv37]

you're the only one who says that there's only 2 ways. Marv's and redskins.

huh? When I criticize the Bills, you immediately say that I want to do things the Redskins way, when I've never even mentioned the Skins except when you bring it up first.

Why is it that you defend dumping players like Fletcher and Spikes because they were mediocre, but you also defend KEEPING mediocre players like Reed and Royal?

[justasportsfan]

huh? When I criticize the Bills, you immediately say that I want to do things the Redskins way, when I've never even mentioned the Skins except when you bring it up first.

Why is it that you defend dumping players like Fletcher and Spikes because they were mediocre, but you also defend KEEPING mediocre players like Reed and Royal?
Players have to grow. Players have to get adjusted to each other and a new system. but in your world , if they don't play like probowlers right away they suck. I;m done arguing with someone who can't agree with himself or insist facts are wrong and his opinion is right

[OpIv37]

Players have to grow. Players have to get adjusted to each other and a new system. but in your world , if they don't play like probowlers right away they suck. I;m done arguing with someone who can't agree with himself or insist facts are wrong and his opinion is right

Reed and Royal have been around like 4 years. Price has been around 6. I don't know how long Tripplett's been in the league but it's probably in the same range.

So, how long are you going to keep defending mediocrity?

[alohabillsfan]

OP here is a new website for you, please post often!

www.finheaven.com

[madness]

um we CHANGED the OL so they may or may not suck, but until they prove that they're better, how can you go assuming that they're going to be capable of running the ball from a 5 WR set? Everyone jumps all over me for assuming something negative will happen without proof yet no one does it when someone assumes something positive without proof.

As far as the Rams- they always had 2-3 solid receivers. We don't. They play indoors. We don't. BTW, 1000 yard season is only 62.5 yards per game- that's not nearly enough for a ball control offense. And by any chance, do you know what the Rams' TOP stats looked like in those years? I don't know either- just find it curious that you failed to mention it.

Okay, forget the Rams then. It's obvious we have to go back to Football 101 with you to help you understand the different types of ball control offense.

Do you know what the West Coast offense is? It's a passing ball control offense which typically uses up to 5 WRs. Does it abandon the run? No, a good running game actually compliments it because the short passes setup favorable situations to run the ball.

Now how about a Spread Offense? A formation of multiple receivers that can focus either on the run or the pass. The idea is to stretch the field both horizontally and vertically which in turn takes a teams best defenders (LBs) out of the game and helps create mismatches. The spread offense can be used either the pass to set up the run or the run to set up the pass. Even more interesting is how West Virginia uses the Spread as a power running attack. Multiple receivers are used downfield for blocking to spring their backs for long runs and short passes are used as running plays to keep the defense off guard. They also use the no huddle to control the tempo.

We are obviously showing signs of using a variation of the Spread and early reports are that few balls are being dropped. It seems the only problem with Buffalo's ball control, as of right now, is in your head.

[mysticsoto]

To take a few examples:

Everett had 1 catch for 1 yard
Price averaged 8.2 YPC as a WR
Tripplett had 2.5 sacks and none for the first 10 games.

What you fail to realize is that we can do a LOT better than that without breaking the bank for superstars.

If these guys are good enough, why can't we win with them?

B'cse it takes time to setup a team that can win in an ultracompetitive environment that the NFL is. If it was that easy, any and all teams could do it. Truth is, with the exception of one or two, alot of games were really close last year. If we have a better line, do you think that will have an effect on the outcome of close games? See? Instead of looking at what improvements we've made and the positive impact that may have on the outcome of games, you run to the problems we had and overemphasize them over and over. An improvement in the Oline is NOT a small thing. It helps the entire offense from the run game, to the WRs (all of them) and even to the TEs. You mentioned in a previous post about Evans and how come he was not affected. Who says he wasn't? Who says he might not be that much better with an Oline that can hold longer? Or that can open holes for a RB to run through causing LBs and safeties to pay more attention to. Evans has such speed that he was able to succeed regardless. But that's a feat he is able to achieve due to his skills and speed. The others who don't have that kind of speed perform role playing duties going across the middle, timing plays, etc, that require the Oline to hold while the play sets up.

Overall, I don't mind slamming a player or coach for a bad play/bad call - and I've done so 2 years ago when I was writing the game reviews. What I will NOT do however, is slam a player or coach for what I perceive might be bad plays once the season starts...

[OpIv37]

Okay, forget the Rams then. It's obvious we have to go back to Football 101 with you to help you understand the different types of ball control offense.

Do you know what the West Coast offense is? It's a passing ball control offense which typically uses up to 5 WRs. Does it abandon the run? No, a good running game actually compliments it because the short passes setup favorable situations to run the ball.

Now how about a Spread Offense? A formation of multiple receivers that can focus either on the run or the pass. The idea is to stretch the field both horizontally and vertically which in turn takes a teams best defenders (LBs) out of the game and helps create mismatches. The spread offense can be used either the pass to set up the run or the run to set up the pass. Even more interesting is how West Virginia uses the Spread as a power running attack. Multiple receivers are used downfield for blocking to spring their backs for long runs and short passes are used as running plays to keep the defense off guard. They also use the no huddle to control the tempo.

We are obviously showing signs of using a variation Spread and early reports are that few balls are being dropped. Seems the only problem with Buffalo's ball control as of right is in your head.

can you show me statistics of an NFL team that runs a 5 receiver set and has a "ball control offense"? You dodged the question on the Rams' TOP.

And even if the WC offense is a "passing ball control" offense, it doesn't mean we have the personnel for it and it doesn't mean it will work in Buffalo winters.

[OpIv37]

B'cse it takes time to setup a team that can win in an ultracompetitive environment that the NFL is. If it was that easy, any and all teams could do it. Truth is, with the exception of one or two, alot of games were really close last year. If we have a better line, do you think that will have an effect on the outcome of close games? See? Instead of looking at what improvements we've made and the positive impact that may have on the outcome of games, you run to the problems we had and overemphasize them over and over. An improvement in the Oline is NOT a small thing. It helps the entire offense from the run game, to the WRs (all of them) and even to the TEs. You mentioned in a previous post about Evans and how come he was not affected. Who says he wasn't? Who says he might not be that much better with an Oline that can hold longer? Or that can open holes for a RB to run through causing LBs and safeties to pay more attention to. Evans has such speed that he was able to succeed regardless. But that's a feat he is able to achieve due to his skills and speed. The others who don't have that kind of speed perform role playing duties going across the middle, timing plays, etc, that require the Oline to hold while the play sets up.

Overall, I don't mind slamming a player or coach for a bad play/bad call - and I've done so 2 years ago when I was writing the game reviews. What I will NOT do however, is slam a player or coach for what I perceive might be bad plays once the season starts...

um, I'm slamming them based on their performance last year (and in previous years for all except Everett). All the players I've knocked deserve it for what they 've done (or actually, haven't done) on the field. And because of that, i don't have a lot of confidence in them this year. I don't know why that's so hard to understand.

[justasportsfan]

Reed and Royal have been around like 4 years. Price has been around 6. I don't know how long Tripplett's been in the league but it's probably in the same range.

So, how long are you going to keep defending mediocrity?
Reed never had a decent QB , OL and coach. Royal is in his first year qw/ the bills witha new role in a new system. They also had a qb that was struggling in the 1st half of the season . When JP got better in the 2nd hald, so did they. But hey, they still suck but Jp is imporing. "okay:rolleyes: I'm done repeating this to you. If you can't understand that. Not my problem.

[HAMMER]

When will you guys learn that Op can't lose an argument, just let him rant and rave.

[OpIv37]

Reed never had a decent QB , OL and coach. Royal is in his first year qw/ the bills witha new role in a new system. They also had a qb that was struggling in the 1st half of the season . When JP got better in the 2nd hald, so did they. But hey, they still suck but Jp is imporing. "okay:rolleyes: I'm done repeating this to you. If you can't understand that. Not my problem.

but Spikes and Fletcher were in their first year of a new D. They had a terrible OL in front of them- don't you think that hampers their ability to support the run? And Spikes was coming off an injury and probably going to continue to improve, like Everrett. Yet, you still supported those moves even though the same logic you apply to Reed and Royal applies to them.

And in case you didn't notice, JP has had a hell of a lot less time on the field than any of those other guys, and he plays a position that's harder to learn. But those facts don't support your opinion so your opinion must be right and the facts must be wrong.

[madness]

can you show me statistics of an NFL team that runs a 5 receiver set and has a "ball control offense"? You dodged the question on the Rams' TOP.

And even if the WC offense is a "passing ball control" offense, it doesn't mean we have the personnel for it and it doesn't mean it will work in Buffalo winters.

You posed the question, look it up yourself. I'm not your personal statistician.

Who cares if the West Coast can't work in Buffalo. Disregarding the facts that it somehow worked in GB, Denver and Minnesota's weather; you're argument was that passing hurts a ball control offense and that multiple WR sets limit your running game.

Hammer is right, I'm done disagreeing with your "righteousness" for the day.

Good day, sir.

[OpIv37]

You posed the question, look it up yourself. I'm not your personal statistician.

Who cares if the West Coast can't work in Buffalo. Disregarding the facts that it somehow worked in GB, Denver and Minnesota's weather; you're argument was that passing hurts a ball control offense and that multiple WR sets limit your running game.

Hammer is right, I'm done disagreeing with your "righteousness" for the day.

Good day, sir.

you need to learn to READ. I didn't say it limited the running game- I said it limited the ability to control the ball and the TOP, which it does. You still haven't adequately contradicted that.

[Mad Bomber]

but they had TOP issues at times. That's what we need to avoid because of the D.
That was due in large part to how quickly they got plays off in the no-huddle. TOP meant nothing as a stat when you applied it to that offense, since they didn't spend 20 seconds per play huddled up.

[mysticsoto]

um, I'm slamming them based on their performance last year (and in previous years for all except Everett). All the players I've knocked deserve it for what they 've done (or actually, haven't done) on the field. And because of that, i don't have a lot of confidence in them this year. I don't know why that's so hard to understand.
It's not that it is hard to understand. What is hard to understand is why you don't take things like: 7 rookies on a team starting, bad Oline (which improved after the bye week but still), new offensive scheme, new defensive scheme, etc, into account and how the play may be different this year with more experience and with new talent on the Oline. I mean 5 of the games we lost were by 3 pts or less and included in these 5 were games were teams like Indy, NE and SD who are by all means excellent teams!!!

[madness]

you need to learn to READ. I didn't say it limited the running game- I said it limited the ability to control the ball and the TOP, which it does. You still haven't adequately contradicted that.

You need to learn to COMPREHEND. The West Coast is specifically designed for the ability to control the ball and the Spread does the same thing but in a different way all while both are using multiple WR sets.

[OpIv37]

It's not that it is hard to understand. What is hard to understand is why you don't take things like: 7 rookies on a team starting, bad Oline (which improved after the bye week but still), new offensive scheme, new defensive scheme, etc, into account and how the play may be different this year with more experience and with new talent on the Oline. I mean 5 of the games we lost were by 3 pts or less and included in these 5 were games were teams like Indy, NE and SD who are by all means excellent teams!!!

that's all very true but there are still some glaring holes that weren't addressed in the off season and some new ones that were created. On paper, the only positions that are better than last year are OL and RB- the D is actually WORSE (note that I said on paper). That's why I don't have a lot of confidence for the upcoming season.

[OpIv37]

You need to learn to COMPREHEND. The West Coast is specifically designed for that and Spread does the same thing but in a different way all while both use multiple WR sets.

it's DESIGNED to do that but you have no facts to prove that it ACTUALLY does that. You managed to prove that it's possible to run from a 5 WR set but that's not the same as ball control.

and even if you prove that it does do that, you still haven't proven that we have the proper personnel to run it.

Trust me- a 5 WR base is a BAD idea for this team.

[madness]

it's DESIGNED to do that but you have no facts to prove that it ACTUALLY does that. You managed to prove that it's possible to run from a 5 WR set but that's not the same as ball control.

Yes, and my car is designed to get me from point A to point B but I currently do not have any facts that it ACTUALLY does that. Go figure.

Do us a favor, go into the bathroom and look in the mirror so you can argue with yourself.

[justasportsfan]

When will you guys learn that Op can't lose an argument, just let him rant and rave.

:up:

His OPINIONS are right and the facts are wrong. I've learned that today.

[OpIv37]

:up:

His OPINIONS are right and the facts are wrong. I've learned that today.

I'd like to know what facts you keep referring to cuz I sure as hell haven't seen any.

[patmoran2006]

that story lost all credibility when they said"much improved jets" and my personal favorite"always reliable Dolphins". (fartnoise)
Are the Jets NOT improved?

They acquired a stud running back in Thomas Jones in what was probably the biggest steal in years. Even at his worse, Jones is a huge upgrade over what the Jets had at RB last year, and he joins an already efficient offense.

They also got guys on defense through the draft that will start from day ONE in CB Darele Reevis and ILB David Harris.

That's not improvement?

[justasportsfan]

I sure as hell haven't seen any.haha!I'm not surprised. go research Reed and Royals.

[patmoran2006]

AWFUL idea. First, we need a power running game to take pressure off the D- 5 WR sets will lead to a lot of short drives. Second, later in the year it's going to be hard to pass in Buffalo- remember how Gilbride's offense faded late in the year? Third, we don't have 5 decent receivers. Fourth, the OL's we added are known more for run blocking than pass blocking (although the pass blocking should still be improved over last year).

I mean, a 5 WR play or two as a wrinkle in the offense is fine, but this article mentions a "pass first" offense. Believe me- it will be a LONG season if the Bills implement that strategy.
I almost disagree with you.. but there are two things I dont like about a "pass first" 5 WR offense. One of them you touched on, and the other you didn't.

1- You touched on this. The Bills barely have 2 legitimately consistent WR's, let alone five. You must have the horses to do something successfully. It Pat Williams and Sam Adams are your DT's, you're not running a cover two defense. I think our WR's as a unit absolutely suck; and that's sad because I think EVans is a top 5 WR in the league.

2- You didn't touch on this. Til this point anyway, Losman's strength has been his gun. He's much better suited to run a Raiders-style vertical offense than he is to make quick reads, check downs and distribute the ball in a west coach/split wide set. Generally, I don't like this and I dont think it bodes well for a QB who's strength isn't quick decision making.

I do like the fact overall that we're willing to implement some new formations and plays into the offense. The more ways you can be unpredictable on Sundays the better. However, I hope that a 5 WR or a "west coast" style of offense becomes our change of pace offense, and not our regular set.

Our defense is nowhere near good enough right now to potentially leave on the football field for 37-40 minutes per game.

One last thing. If we're running this kind of offense, then why the hell did we spend so much money on Dockery and Walker? Both are known as good run blockers and "graters".. NOT Pass protectors

[Mr. Miyagi]

Trust me- a 5 WR base is a BAD idea for this team.
And your opinion on appropriate offensive schemes are remotely credible because why?

[OpIv37]

And your opinion on appropriate offensive schemes are remotely credible because why?

why is it that you challenge my credentials but not the credentials of the people who agreed with the 5WR scheme?

We're all just fans on a message board- obviously some know more than others.

I have reasons for my opinion that give some credibility to it, and I listed those. If you disagree, feel free to state why. That's the purpose of a message board.

[justasportsfan]

And your opinion on appropriate offensive schemes are remotely credible because why?


because in his world he's always right.

[OpIv37]

because in his world he's always right.

well if that's true, then we're the same in that respect.

[njsue]

That is the game to spread out the opposing teams D. :snicker:

Especially with the speedy WR's the Bills have.

[justasportsfan]

well if that's true, then we're the same in that respect.


I'm always right in your world? :bravo:

In the real world, I'm a wait and see guy. I'll give people a chance depending on the circumstances before I start saying they suck .

[Mr. Miyagi]

why is it that you challenge my credentials but not the credentials of the people who agreed with the 5WR scheme?

We're all just fans on a message board- obviously some know more than others.

I have reasons for my opinion that give some credibility to it, and I listed those. If you disagree, feel free to state why. That's the purpose of a message board.
I don't personally agree or disagree with the 5WR sets. I will leave that up to the professionals, the coaching staf that is, to determine whether it will work or not, because they are the ones who are involved with practices and know the players' abilities more than all of fans combined. I just think that if the 5WR sets are to work, and the offense can be what the coaching staff thinks it's capable of, I'm all for it cuz it'll just be so damn exciting to watch.

Neither you nor I have the credentials to judge their football decisions. So when you say "TRUST ME it's a bad idea", I'll have to say uh no I don't.

[OpIv37]

I'm always right in your world? :bravo:

In the real world, I'm a wait and see guy. I'll give people a chance depending on the circumstances before I start saying they suck .

well a lot of the guys we're talking about have had chances in a variety of circumstances and still sucked. You weren't willing to give Spikes a chance and you never said anything bad about Fletcher until after he left.

You won't start saying they suck until they aren't Bills anymore. Face it- some guys on our team suck. If they didn't we'd be winning.

[justasportsfan]

Miyagi,Op knows better than Fairchild.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Obviously.

[OpIv37]

I don't personally agree or disagree with the 5WR sets. I will leave that up to the professionals, the coaching staf that is, to determine whether it will work or not, because they are the ones who are involved with practices and know the players' abilities more than all of fans combined. I just think that if the 5WR sets are to work, and the offense can be what the coaching staff thinks it's capable of, I'm all for it cuz it'll just be so damn exciting to watch.

Neither you nor I have the credentials to judge their football decisions. So when you say "TRUST ME it's a bad idea", I'll have to say uh no I don't.

No one said you have to. But if they use a 5 WR set, you'll see that I'm right.

As far as the 5 WR set being exciting, well, Gilbride used a lot of spread sets and for half of 02 and all of 03, I don't think "exciting" is the word I'd use.

As far as leaving it up to the professionals, have you been watching the Bills for the last decade or so? The "professionals" have gotten it wrong plenty of times. Having a title or holding a certain position doesn't automatically make someone competent.

[justasportsfan]

well a lot of the guys we're talking about have had chances in a variety of circumstances and still sucked. . so why does Jp get a pass again? Oh yeah, "it's a different position" Btw, If you tell JP Reed sucks , he'll tell you you're stupid.




You weren't willing to give Spikes a chance and you never said anything bad about Fletcher until after he left. . this is getting stupid as usual because of your selective memory. I was willing to risk keeping Spikes until he diecided he didn't want to be here. DUH!!! That's why you're useless. You have comprehension problems.


You won't start saying they suck until they aren't Bills anymore. . I said Spikes and Fletcher suck? :coocoo:

[Mr. Miyagi]

No one said you have to. But if they use a 5 WR set, you'll see that I'm right.

As far as the 5 WR set being exciting, well, Gilbride used a lot of spread sets and for half of 02 and all of 03, I don't think "exciting" is the word I'd use.

As far as leaving it up to the professionals, have you been watching the Bills for the last decade or so? The "professionals" have gotten it wrong plenty of times. Having a title or holding a certain position doesn't automatically make someone competent.
I'm sure they're making a big mistake by not having hired you, since you're so knowledgable and can point out all of their obvious flaws in schemes and philosophies, and have all the solutions to solve all their problems.

Oh wait, you mean you've NEVER done ANYTHING relating to organized football? That's okay! You TALK like you did! That's good enough!

Op why do you have to be always right? Even when you don't know **** about the subject? This is a much bigger issue than football. You've got a self-esteem problem.

[OpIv37]

so why does Jp get a pass again? Oh yeah, "it's a different position" Btw, If you tell JP Reed sucks , he'll tell you you're stupid.


this is getting stupid as usual because of your selective memory. I was willing to risk keeping Spikes until he diecided he didn't want to be here. DUH!!! That's why you're useless. You have comprehension problems.
I said Spikes and Fletcher suck? :coocoo:

In case you didn't notice, Reed has had a HELL of a lot more chances than JP. I already said that and you ignored it, so I don't think you're in a position to criticize anyone else for having a "selective memory". And why do you keep dismissing the position argument? It's perfectly legit- not all positions are the same, despite what you think.

Maybe you didn't say that Spikes and Fletcher suck, but you seem to think the scrubs we have at LB now can be as good or better based on nothing.

[OpIv37]

I'm sure they're making a big mistake by not having hired you, since you're so knowledgable and can point out all of their obvious flaws in schemes and philosophies, and have all the solutions to solve all their problems.

Oh wait, you mean you've NEVER done ANYTHING relating to organized football? That's okay! You TALK like you did! That's good enough!

Op why do you have to be always right? Even when you don't know **** about the subject? This is a much bigger issue than football. You've got a self-esteem problem.

Um, most of the posters here have never done anything related to organized football. So if that's your criteria, we might as well let NE39 and gr8slayer and Ingtar have all the discussions while the rest of us just lurk.

What does having to be right have to do with self esteem?

[Tatonka]

Patience butterfly.

that is a TOS violation.

:couch:

[justasportsfan]

In case you didn't notice, Reed has had a HELL of a lot more chances than JP. I already said that and you ignored it, so I don't think you're in a position to criticize anyone else for having a "selective memory". And why do you keep dismissing the position argument? It's perfectly legit- not all positions are the same, despite what you think.

Maybe you didn't say that Spikes and Fletcher suck, but you seem to think the scrubs we have at LB now can be as good or better based on nothing.


See the difference is that I don't call them scrubs after their rookie year. You do.

How many times do I have to repeat that Reed has never had a stable coach,OL, qb, etc.etc. Just like Moulds.

Now I will let you go for now. There's no sense in talking to someone who thinks he knows more than Fairchild.

[OpIv37]

See the difference is that I don't call them scrubs after their rookie year. You do.

How many times do I have to repeat that Reed has never had a stable coach,OL, qb, etc.etc. Just like Moulds.

Now I will let you go for now. There's no sense in talking to someone who thinks he knows more than Fairchild.

Moulds did just fine despite the turmoil so your example proved the OPPOSITE of what you intended.

If you were the coach, Chris Watson would still be on the team because we need to "wait and see" if he's going to be good.

[Tatonka]

Um, are you seriously trying to argue that we haven't seen what Price can do yet? The guy's been in the league for like 6 ****ing years!



yeah.. i have seen price be a 1200 yard receiver too, as a number 2 receiver, no less.

but i am sure you forgot that.

[Tatonka]

if it were that easy I would have done it a long time ago. Unlike some people here, I'm not willing to sell the team out just because I think they're gonna blow. I don't know why some of you call yourselves "fans" but then have to convince yourself the team is better than it is to root for them.

your not willing to sell the team out, just piss and moan contantly like you have a yeast infection.

maybe you should go purse shopping.. it will cheer you up. :up:

[OpIv37]

yeah.. i have seen price be a 1200 yard receiver too, as a number 2 receiver, no less.

but i am sure you forgot that.

1 out of 5 ain't bad.

Why don't we just sign every player who had a great year in 2002- that will solve all our problems!

Why does 1 good season 5 years ago carry more weight with you than the 4 bad ones he's had since then?

[Tatonka]

As far as Price- maybe I screwed up the exact ranking or something but 8.2 YPC for a WR is horrible no matter how you look at it.

"I lied." would have been alot shorter to type.

:oops:

[OpIv37]

your not willing to sell the team out, just piss and moan contantly like you have a yeast infection.

maybe you should go purse shopping.. it will cheer you up. :up:

mature, insightful post, as usual.

[OpIv37]

"I lied." would have been alot shorter to type.

:oops:

go ahead- defend 8.2 YPC then wonder why we never win anything. Whether I was right or wrong, whether I was lying or truthful, it doesn't change the fact that 8.2 YPC SUCKS.

[justasportsfan]

Moulds did just fine despite the turmoil so your example proved the OPPOSITE of what you intended.

If you were the coach, Chris Watson would still be on the team because we need to "wait and see" if he's going to be good.
If you were the coach, (I'm surprised you're not since you know better than Fairchild) Moulds would've been cut after his rookie year.

[Tatonka]

1 out of 5 ain't bad.

Why don't we just sign every player who had a great year in 2002- that will solve all our problems!

Why does 1 good season 5 years ago carry more weight with you than the 4 bad ones he's had since then?

OP.. i know your a smart guy.. which is why the ****box attitude all the time is so perplexing.

i can easily throw out the 3 years in atlanta, based soley on the qb and the offense they ran.. every wr that has ever gone there has been total ****.. all the first round picks.. all the FAs.. and he came into dallas midway through the season, had no time to learn anything and it was over.. he came here.. he won the houston game for us and made some big plays.. he is another year into the system along with all the players around him.. he will improve.. he is still the same wr with the same skills.. it is not like he is 40 years old now.. he is in his prime. he will be fine.

[Tatonka]

mature, insightful post, as usual.

i was just trying to think of a way to cheer you up.. it was good advice i thought.

[justasportsfan]

Whether I was right or wrong, whether I was lying or truthful, it doesn't change the fact that 8.2 YPC SUCKS.
I agree. Let's get rid of Price and the qb that throws to him. They blow. Okay. :rolleyes:

[Dr. Lecter]

Why does that suck, but 1th in points allowed is meaningless?

Why is it that only the negative stats mean a damn thing to you?

[OpIv37]

OP.. i know your a smart guy.. which is why the ****box attitude all the time is so perplexing.

i can easily throw out the 3 years in atlanta, based soley on the qb and the offense they ran.. every wr that has ever gone there has been total ****.. all the first round picks.. all the FAs.. and he came into dallas midway through the season, had no time to learn anything and it was over.. he came here.. he won the houston game for us and made some big plays.. he is another year into the system along with all the players around him.. he will improve.. he is still the same wr with the same skills.. it is not like he is 40 years old now.. he is in his prime. he will be fine.

the ****box attitude comes from years of this team losing.

As far as Price, I really just disagree. Granted he wasn't in the most stable of situations before returning here, but he didn't show anything at all and he barely showed anything last year.

I sure as hell hope you're right and I'm wrong, because with a (presumably) improved OL and running game, another receiving threat would go a long way for this offense.

[OpIv37]

Why does that suck, but 1th in points allowed is meaningless?

Why is it that only the negative stats mean a damn thing to you?

I've already answered this 100 times.

the number of points given up doesn't matter when the D allows 7 minute drives in the 4th quarter. They couldn't get off the field when it counted the most, and 10th in points doesn't account for that fact.

[Dr. Lecter]

But you discount EVERY positive stat about this team.

Maybe the D will do better in the 4th if the offense can keep them off the field.

[OpIv37]

But you discount EVERY positive stat about this team.

Maybe the D will do better in the 4th if the offense can keep them off the field.

If we were winning, it would be easier to discount the negative stats. but we're not. At the end of the day, wins are all that matters and being 10th in points didn't translate to wins.

[Tatonka]

i want to shoot myself in the face after reading 7 pages of this ****.

op, you are such a buzz kill. god damn.

[Dr. Lecter]

If we were winning, it would be easier to discount the negative stats. but we're not. At the end of the day, wins are all that matters and being 10th in points didn't translate to wins.

It did translate to two more than the year before and is something to build on.

I am not saying to discount the negative stats. Never did, so don't make it sound like I did. All I am saying is that all stats need to be looked at.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Being right is apparently the most important thing in Op's life. So by god if anyone dares to challenge him on being right, he won't stop arguing with you until you give up or die from utter exhaustion, not from having anything resolved whatsoever.

Of course he'll argue THIS post too for being wrong because he's always right. :rolleyes:

[OpIv37]

i want to shoot myself in the face after reading 7 pages of this ****.

op, you are such a buzz kill. god damn.

I do my best.

I've actually been trying not to argue on here as much- and I was doing a pretty good job of it for two or three weeks, then I relapsed today.

[justasportsfan]

Why is it that only the negative stats mean a damn thing to you? You had to ask? DUH!!