question for ingtar

[shadowfax]

i hear you often have scoops, good analysis, and scout-type info that seems to be more reliable than the average joe typing his uninformed gut feelings into a message board app.

So

I'm wondering if you have any insight into the DTs in this draft class. Not the DEs, we should be all set there if the new question mark guys pan out for us (jones, mckenzie).

I strongly believe...well, I hope (I'm one of those average joes) that we pick DT at #23. Even if we sign Sam Adams, which I dearly hope we do. Pat isn't young. Sam isn't young. They would be our two best DTs. If either one or (gulp) both should fall to injury (knock on wood), we're lost. We might as well draw arrows in the turf right up the middle of the D.

Bannan is a good effort guy. A role player. He's not strong or athletic or BIG enough to hold off blockers and command double teams. He'll NEVER command double team respect. Either will Ron Edwards. In this league, YOU MUST HAVE TWO STUD DTs, or teams will own you. Look around at the best Ds in the league and they all have DTs that make the rest of the D work.

We need to start building young talent on the DLine. This is the best year in a long time for DT depth.

I can't stand all these mock drafts that have us taking the best available WR. Bah...

What are your thoughts...and do you have a preference with the potential first rounders that could fall to us? I'd LOVE it if we could even trade our 3rd rounder to move up to get Dewayne Robertson...that guy looks like a young Warren Sapp, and plays like it too. Kevin Williams wouldn't be bad...but most draft boards have all of them gone by 15 or 16 or so.

[Tatonka]

bannan is 300 pounds.. i dont know about him being not big enough.. maybe just not good enough, but remember parrella was not that good when we got him.. and now he is money.

[Ingtar33]

Ok... here are some guys who might be available at our 23rd pick

Rien Long: who is a physical marvel, and needs to work on his technique. Very fast, most years would be a top 20 pick... this year he might not be drafted in the first round. Huge body, at 6'6", and while I've seen him listed at about 285... he is much bigger now (around 305). His frame can support at least 30 more pounds without any significant drop-off in speed and quickness (both of which are quite good). There are two problems with him... one is he probably will get a knee surgery this off season, two he will be very raw, and need good coaching to become something special. If it was up to me I'd take him with our second pick... he's a bit of a gamble in the first.

Ty Warren: He's a big guy on the model of Pat Williams, and at 6'4" 315 he's got the size to play either NT or UT. Personally I think he projects at UT, he's probably the quickest lateral pursuer in the DT draft, and has a knack for bursting into the backfield on backside pursuit. He will definitely be off the board by early second round, and will not fall to us in the middle of that round. If we want him we have to draft him in the first. Unfortunately he is a little bit of a reach at 23.

William Joseph: Might fall to us in the late first round. He has slipped in most people's eyes due to his sub-par senior season. Personally I think he is one of the finest DT's in the draft and would be thrilled to have him here. He has good size, 6'5" 300, and is fairly quick. The most polished technique of the DTs in the draft... and could start right now as either a NT or UT in our scheme. Most importantly he is a quality person, fairly smart, and has no serious ego problems that I've seen.

Kenny Peterson: I like his work ethic, his speed and quickness, but he's a bit on the small size. More of a UT in our scheme, and I don't see him ever getting big or strong enough to be more than adequate... I'm not that big of a fan of him. But he would be able ot contribute to our inside pass rush right away, and if we get Sam Adams that might make him the smart pick. Nice but not great size at 6’3” and 290lbs.

[Ingtar33]

BTW: welcome to the zone shadowfax... how'd you hear about me?

[shadowfax]

and more of an eavesdropper here (droppin them eaves). Not because I don't like participating here, it's just that I'm more familiar with TBD/TSW and "know" more people by reputation there.

Anyway, I followed a thread some time ago that talked about your experience...what is it again, just a guy like us who has geeked out on this stuff so long he could probably be hired by a team, or were you once a scout or something like that...or what?

I ALWAYS read a post if you wrote it. I don't bother with some others. Just like at any message board.

[TigerJ]

Ingtar has always strongly implied that he is a scout at the present time for a team other than Buffalo. I don't know if he's ever come out and used the word "scout," but we all believe he is. I shouldn't try to speak for him, but I know he feels to be on the safe side he has to remain deliberately vague about exactly what he does and who he works for, just in case his employer were to find out and consider his activity on Bills message boards to be a conflict of interest.

BTW, Ingtar, I've been of the opinion that K. Peterson could potentially help the Bills as a left defensive end if Buffalo signs Sam Adams. I disagree with shadowfax that Buffalo doesn't need any more help there. Marcus Jones hasn't shown that he is really that effective as a LDE. Nor do I think Schobel would be. McKenzie is a pass rushing specialist who wouldn't be suitable as an every down guy, and Ahanotu treally wasn't as good as we'd like a starter to be. Do you think Peterson can play there effectively? Of the four guys you mentioned, Ingtar, which one would you pick in round one if he were available?

[Ingtar33]

not geeked out... look at my profile... that should clear things up :)

[Ingtar33]

If all were available?

William Joseph, no question.

If you want a DE/UT tweener, than I guess Peterson is a good pick. I'm just not a fan, but I know guys who are...

[Tatonka]

i wonder if he lives close to who he scouts for :D

[Tatonka]

it really drives me nuts that i dont know who it is.. but such is life.. i value the info ing provides tremendously.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by Tatonka
i wonder if he lives close to who he scouts for :D

The Buffalo Dsestroyers? :D....no...no.. I'll get it... The Toronto Argonauts! :jk:

[Ingtar33]

LOL,

Damn you got me Dozer... the Argo’s it is!!!!!

No, I can certainly play this little game a bit... lets see, I live in a state that doesn't have anything to do with my NFL team... my profile refers to a place I keep in buffalo, but not my home... my home isn't in NY state.

Although... I do live somewhere within 12 hours of Buffalo.

And another 12 hours of my NFL team.

LOL, not very much help is it? Its not a very good game either since one of you could nail it on the head and I wouldn’t be able to say so…

[Ingtar33]

Back on topic though... I hope that little rundown will answer your questions about the DTs in the draft Shadowfax

[Typ0]

There may be an excellent QB available when we get to our first pick and I would not at all be surprised if we took him. We may not get another chance to draft a QB in the next couple seasons and this is the perfect year to bring someone in to help us face down the Bledsoe contract in a couple seasons. I'm not hell bent on a QB like this may sound I just think there is a good chance there may be a QB who is clearly the best athlete available when we pick first and OBD is too smart to pass up on an opportunity like that just because we have Bledsoe and people feel comfortable with that for the moment.

Ingtar: I hope to hell you aren't in Cincinnati. If not you are one smart guy who knows a lot about football and are a real asset here. If so, sorry man but you're not at all what I thought you were.

J/K

[Typ0]

I didn't mean to get off topic either I know this is about DT. I was just bringing up this idea of positional drafting.

[Dozerdog]

He can't be a Cincy scout.... they only have , what... 4 of them? Arent they all related to Mike Brown? LOL

[Dozerdog]

If a DT is what we want, I'm all for trading down 4-5 slots to get Ty Warren- we could pick up an extra pick or two. I can see it if Green Bay starts getting nervous if a QB is still there they like. Like Grossman.

[TigerJ]

LOL, I guess your profile makes your occupation pretty clear, Ingtar. I kinda doubt Joseph will be there at #23. I wouldn't mind the trade down idea. I've seen some mocks that have Buffalo taking Michael Haynes at #23. He would be a LDE I imagine since RDE is a little crowded now. If Buffalo does sign Sam Adams, it would probably be a 3 year deal. That would give Buffalo a little time to find the guy to replace him. Maybe then they might look for a sleeper pick down lower in the draft: James Lee? or Tim Love?

No, I don't think Ingtar could be a Cincinnati scout. Hes been doing this for a while at least and Cincinnati only just hired a scouting staff since the end of the season. Their assistant coaches did a lot of the scouting before. I suppose they bought the TSN Draft Guide off the mag rack at their local grocery store to gather data.

[Ingtar33]

Cinci has scouts? Funny I've never ran into any of them ;)

I always thought Cinci just bought a subscription to Mel's page and drafted according to his rankings... Oh, I probably shouldn't have said that, after all we all know Mel knows what he's talking about.

Draft a QB? Unless your talking 6th or 7th round I don't see the advantage... otherwise we'll be paying three QBs more than a mil per season. Too much money in a position which we wouldn't need anyone for at least 4 years...

[Ingtar33]

The strange thing is TJ, that I've seen a huge fall off in interest in Joseph... he could slip through the cracks and land in our lap. Basically he has done nothing spectacular to stand out, and with all the studs he might fly under everyone's radar. (sort of like Henderson did last year... he was by far the best DT in the draft, should have been the 2nd defensive player selected… and he was the best DT on the field last season, yet he fell to the Jags and wasn't even the first DT picked... only difference is Joseph was never as highly touted as Henderson, so there's a chance he'll fall to us)

[Ingtar33]

Personally, I'm not thrilled with the DEs in this draft and think that Jones will be head and shoulders better than any of the DE's available when we pick in the first.

[TigerJ]

Well, if he drops, great. Buffalo does have a scouting staff, and it has a reputation for being a pretty good one.

You really think Cincinnati spent that much money for player info, Ingtar. The TSN Draft guide is cheaper.

[Typ0]

Is that true we won't need a QB for four years? Right now we have been carrying Travis Brown for three season's if he's going to turn into something he should start moving up soon which he's not going to get the chance to do here right now so to me he does not look like a good fit for that roster spot this season. There is a $7 Million option payment on bledsoe's contract in 2004 which will double his salary and increase our cap hit that season. I am not trying to come down on Bledsoe here, but wouldn't it be beneficial to position ourselves better when it's time to make a decision on that contract and perhaps have a gunner waiting in the wings we have confidence in? Plus, if the guy really started to look good as early as next season he would be a great candidate for a trade as another option that could really sweeten a deal we need to keep us on top. I know what you are saying about the cash being tied up in the position but it is the QB. I don't know what is going on at OBD but to me it seems Travis Brown is either a waste of a roster spot or he really needs to move somewhere where he can at least move into a #2 spot and perhaps get some playing time. I'll admit to being a football idiot but I do know you want to get the best mix and still position yourself well for the future. There also is the possibility there may be an exceptional QB available when we pick.

[Ingtar33]

Well I'm not worried about that option payment... its one of those things that will be renegotiated anyway, as Drew knew when he signed the contract to begin with.

No Brown isn't the answer, but neither is drafting a 1st or 2nd round QB who will stay on our roster eating up cap money for 4 years, never playing, then going somewhere else. If you want an heir apparent to Bledsoe, draft him in 3 to 5 years from now.

If you want a younger guy to be a backup QB, and then take a shot with a late rounder, it can’t hurt, and you might find a diamond.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Originally posted by Ingtar33
No, I can certainly play this little game a bit... lets see, I live in a state that doesn't have anything to do with my NFL team... my profile refers to a place I keep in buffalo, but not my home... my home isn't in NY state.

Although... I do live somewhere within 12 hours of Buffalo.

And another 12 hours of my NFL team.
I got it.

His home isn't in NY state, and it's within 12 hours of Buffalo.
His home is in a state that isn't where his NFL team is.
So he lives outside of NY State, where the Bills are.
Then "another" 12 hours to his NFL team, or should I say 12 hours back to his NFL team.

Ingtar33 is a scout for the Bills.

[Kevikid]

ingtar's the janitor!

[WG]

LOL Kid!!!

A new offseason movie hit: "The Janitor", starring Ingtar!!

[WG]

Before we start talking about option payments and $7M salaries for Bledsoe, I'd like to see how he plays this season again. If he puts up 18 TOs in 7 losses again, then I'll say unequivocally that he won't be worth more than we're paying him now. He's gonna have to start coming up big in some big games, not against as slew of teams that are 6-10 or worse and amongst the worst in the NFL. How 'bout some games w/o 2 or 3 INTs vs. the better teams, and N.E. in particular, a key division opponent!

I like the idea of trading down for Joseph if necessary. But so many things are going to happen prior to the draft which is still 6 weeks away. Guys are gonna rise and fall. But we may be in a position to have to draft a DT since we haven't moved on one yet other than Adams and that is uncertain. I can only see us selecting a WR if we are set everywhere else in a "best player available" scenario. We'll need some OL depth too which hasn't been addressed yet either.

[Cntrygal]

Originally posted by Kevikid
ingtar's the janitor!

:lol:

GREAT Guess!!!!!!!!