Game of football in trouble?

[jmb1099]

So over the past few years, and especially this past 2, there seems to be an awful lot of players in serious trouble with the law. I can remember a time when a drug suspension was a serious thing but now that almost seems mild in the light of recent events involving NFL players. Shootings, alleged murders, domestic violence, and on and on it goes.
My second beef is with contracts. Forget the cash to cap nonsense, my beef is players who after singing a contract to play for a certain amount of dollars for a certain amount of time not honoring their word. Its disgusting.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I remember when people played football for respect, for the love of the game, they played because they were warriors who wanted more than anything else to win and be cheered by the home crowd and booed loudly when playing away. The so called warriors of today consist of Terrel Owens, Randy Moss who are themselves an easy target, but a mere reflection of a much larger problem. The players today are gifted athletes and in most cases physically superior to players of yester year. But many today lack heart, passion, and concern for anything other for themselves. Put TO or Randy Moss next to Steve Largent and the physocal mismatch is unquestionable. However, Largent, like so many other star players of days gone by showed up to play both on gameday and practice throughout the week without the media circus or drama we see today.
So in light of all of this I think the game of Football is in serious trouble. "High character" often gets a negative rap on this site and others, but its the players who lack character who damage their teams, ruin seasons, and will eventually kill the game unless their is a significant change in the near future. Sadly I only seeing it get worse before it gets better. Just my opinion.

[G. Host]

Most players reflect most owners - greed is their primary concern.

[FlyingDutchman]

I dont know if its a reflection of football being in trouble as much as it is society in general. Its a different world win live in from 10 years ago. Players are different, media is different, attitude towards money and the game and whats really important are different. A lot has changed unfortunately.

[Mr. Pink]

The game is no different now really than before.

Greed was just as much a part of football 25 years ago as it is today. Why? Because the fanbase is there, people spend their money on merchandise, tickets and watch on TV. Which allows the NFL to get even more and more money from the network, for the privilege of televising their games. And yes, it is a privilege.

Want examples of greed from 20 years ago? Jim Kelly. He wouldn't come to Buffalo to play because? He got more money from the USFL. Players held out back then too for more money. Dexter Manley, LT, Reggie Langhorne just to name a few. Hell Bo Jackson wouldn't start playing football til like week 9 because he was more interested in baseball. Yet fans of football loved and embraced him. He took half the season off...what's the difference now? You site TO, Randy for taking plays off here and there...which MANY players do when they're not involved in the play. Bo took off half the season. Hell, Webster Slaughter took one play off in the 1987 AFC championship game, missed his block on Jeremiah Castille-who then stripped Byner at the 2.

And selfishness? I'm sure everyone can remember the Bickering Bills, when Jimbo blasted the entire o-line for not blocking up to his standards. Or Dan Marino and his staunch non-desire for Miami to have any semblance of a running game during his heyday. Same with Elway and the Broncos til the twilight of his career.

Salaries are just escalated now, because, the NFL is pulling in a lot more revenue now than they did then. The salary cap is a directly correlation of the TV contracts.

In 1980s the NFL had two work stoppages. In 1982 where it shortened the season to 9 games, based on what? Players wanting more money. Then again, it occured in 1987, why? Players wanting more money. The owners joined in on the greed fielding scabs for 3 weeks. Have we seen anything close to a strike since? no.

Murders or crimes by players has been commonplace in the NFL for decades. Hell Jim Brown back in the day allegedly threw his girlfriend off a balcony. Manley, Chip Banks, LT had HUGE drug problems. Bruce Smith was found on the side of the highway in Virginia under the influence. Rae Carruth killed his girlfriend. The OJ saga.

How is any of what we see now, today, any worse than what we've seen in the past 20 years? Crime wise, Drug wise, Stupidity wise, Laziness wise, Greed wise?

Look at it in these terms monetarily...The NFL pulled in X dollars and payed out Y dollars 20 years ago. Well today multiple X by about 20 times. Go figure the Y has increased a lot too.

[jmb1099]

The game is no different now really than before.

Greed was just as much a part of football 25 years ago as it is today. Why? Because the fanbase is there, people spend their money on merchandise, tickets and watch on TV. Which allows the NFL to get even more and more money from the network, for the privilege of televising their games. And yes, it is a privilege.

Want examples of greed from 20 years ago? Jim Kelly. He wouldn't come to Buffalo to play because? He got more money from the USFL. Players held out back then too for more money. Dexter Manley, LT, Reggie Langhorne just to name a few. Hell Bo Jackson wouldn't start playing football til like week 9 because he was more interested in baseball. Yet fans of football loved and embraced him. He took half the season off...what's the difference now? You site TO, Randy for taking plays off here and there...which MANY players do when they're not involved in the play. Bo took off half the season. Hell, Webster Slaughter took one play off in the 1987 AFC championship game, missed his block on Jeremiah Castille-who then stripped Byner at the 2.

And selfishness? I'm sure everyone can remember the Bickering Bills, when Jimbo blasted the entire o-line for not blocking up to his standards. Or Dan Marino and his staunch non-desire for Miami to have any semblance of a running game during his heyday. Same with Elway and the Broncos til the twilight of his career.

Salaries are just escalated now, because, the NFL is pulling in a lot more revenue now than they did then. The salary cap is a directly correlation of the TV contracts.

In 1980s the NFL had two work stoppages. In 1982 where it shortened the season to 9 games, based on what? Players wanting more money. Then again, it occured in 1987, why? Players wanting more money. The owners joined in on the greed fielding scabs for 3 weeks. Have we seen anything close to a strike since? no.

Murders or crimes by players has been commonplace in the NFL for decades. Hell Jim Brown back in the day allegedly threw his girlfriend off a balcony. Manley, Chip Banks, LT had HUGE drug problems. Bruce Smith was found on the side of the highway in Virginia under the influence. Rae Carruth killed his girlfriend. The OJ saga.

How is any of what we see now, today, any worse than what we've seen in the past 20 years? Crime wise, Drug wise, Stupidity wise, Laziness wise, Greed wise?

Look at it in these terms monetarily...The NFL pulled in X dollars and payed out Y dollars 20 years ago. Well today multiple X by about 20 times. Go figure the Y has increased a lot too.
Interesting points. I guess it could very well be that some of it is the amount of publicity it recieves today. That being said I think even your response has demonstrated an escalation of the problem (s). I didn't mean to imply that issues of violence, greed, and drug use were non-existence in the nfl in previous years, but that these issues are becomming more and more the norm. Jim Brown did have issues as did the other players you cited, but even then those were the exceptions and not the rule. As the game has progressed the problems have progressed right along with it and so now what we have is an escalation of those problems that is becoming the norm rather than the exception. It to the point now that its almost shocking when there isn't a problem with someone.

[Mr. Pink]

Interesting points. I guess it could very well be that some of it is the amount of publicity it recieves today. That being said I think even your response has demonstrated an escalation of the problem (s). I didn't mean to imply that issues of violence, greed, and drug use were non-existence in the nfl in previous years, but that these issues are becomming more and more the norm. Jim Brown did have issues as did the other players you cited, but even then those were the exceptions and not the rule. As the game has progressed the problems have progressed right along with it and so now what we have is an escalation of those problems that is becoming the norm rather than the exception. It to the point now that its almost shocking when there isn't a problem with someone.

I decided to do more internet research on the topic...

Howard Slusher has worked for the past 20 years as an assistant to Phil Knight at Nike. Before that, he was a killer player's agent, a notorious adversary to NFL ballclubs during the 1970s, when player agents first swarmed into the sport. He represented 17 Steelers at one time during the Super Bowl years, a block of control that could have been disastrous for them if things did not go well. Holdouts were much more common than they are today, http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/03334/245266.stm

Slusher was labelled as Howie the holdout as quoted by Paul Clayton.

And it's not like Kelly was the first player to outright refuse to play for a team. Elway drafted by Baltimore and Bo Jackson drafted by Tampa Bay.

I'll now just name a laundry list of players that are no way associated with the NFL anymore who had trouble with the law in the past. Andre Rison, Lawrence Phillips, Dexter Manley, LT, Chip Banks, Bruce Smith, Todd Marinovich, Michael Irvin, Rae Carruth, OJ, Jim Brown, Mark Chmura, Nate Newton, Romo, Darrell Russell, Mark Gastineau, Jim Dunaway, Gene Atkins, Eugene Robinson, Art Schlichter, Biscuit, Warren Moon, Deion Sanders, Hollywood Henderson, Bam Morris, Brian or Bennie Blades, Mercury Morris, Darryl Henley, Stanley Wilson, Rafael Septien, Carlton Haselrig, Cole Ford, Paul Hornung, Tamarick Vanover, Lewis Billups. I could have listed the criems associated with each, but to be honest, I'm far too lazy and if you need to know and somehow don't already, google is a mousclick away.

Doesn't that list of felons bring back memories?

All these guys have been jailed, arrested, charged or still in jail from everything from DUI to DWI, possessing coke to trafficing it, from domestic violence to rape, or even murder. None play in the NFL anymore and several of them found their way out of the NFL for their transgressions.

[Pride]

I firmly believe it stems from the invention and acceptance of Free Agency.

When players play to make big money, they they get it, they don't know how to spend it. IMO there needs to not only be a salary cap, but also a personal contract salary cap. Rookies should be paid league minimum their 1st year and are able to renegotiate after their first season.

I dunno, I just think when you take stereotypical moronic jock out of a school that didn't teach him anything but basket weaving, Hand him 55 million dollars, then expect him to not get into trouble... you're just asking for these types of issues.

[Meathead]

I dont know if its a reflection of football being in trouble as much as it is society in general. Its a different world win live in from 10 years ago. Players are different, media is different, attitude towards money and the game and whats really important are different. A lot has changed unfortunately.
great starting point

i think the key is our grotesque hero worship when it comes to athletes

we treat them like they are 'ultra-worthy' when all they are is physically gifted men who entertain us by allowing us to project our self-worth (or lack thereof) into them

in fact, it is our adulation that makes them so selfish and out of touch with reality. after all it is our money pouring into their pockets

as we get farther away from our authentic selves we get more dysfunctional. our worship of these men directly reflects that and reflects our own troubles

[User Manuel]

I think football is in some trouble for the following reasons:

1) Defense seems to have a serious upperhand over offense in the past few years. It seems like truly big plays, outside of punt and kick returns, rarely occur. When they do there almost always seems to be a flag.

2) Perception has changed due to the fact there is so much player movement, mainly due to free agency. First consistency is hard to maintain, especially on offense. Also, it has highlighted financial disparities between cities.

3) The league, fairly or unfairly, is getting a thug league rep.

All in all it seems to be falling into the same trap that the NBA and Hockey, prior to the lockout fell into. Football is probably in the best place to handle this due to the limited amount of product, but eventually it will start to hurt revenue.

[jmb1099]

I decided to do more internet research on the topic...

Howard Slusher has worked for the past 20 years as an assistant to Phil Knight at Nike. Before that, he was a killer player's agent, a notorious adversary to NFL ballclubs during the 1970s, when player agents first swarmed into the sport. He represented 17 Steelers at one time during the Super Bowl years, a block of control that could have been disastrous for them if things did not go well. Holdouts were much more common than they are today, http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/03334/245266.stm

Slusher was labelled as Howie the holdout as quoted by Paul Clayton.

And it's not like Kelly was the first player to outright refuse to play for a team. Elway drafted by Baltimore and Bo Jackson drafted by Tampa Bay.

I'll now just name a laundry list of players that are no way associated with the NFL anymore who had trouble with the law in the past. Andre Rison, Lawrence Phillips, Dexter Manley, LT, Chip Banks, Bruce Smith, Todd Marinovich, Michael Irvin, Rae Carruth, OJ, Jim Brown, Mark Chmura, Nate Newton, Romo, Darrell Russell, Mark Gastineau, Jim Dunaway, Gene Atkins, Eugene Robinson, Art Schlichter, Biscuit, Warren Moon, Deion Sanders, Hollywood Henderson, Bam Morris, Brian or Bennie Blades, Mercury Morris, Darryl Henley, Stanley Wilson, Rafael Septien, Carlton Haselrig, Cole Ford, Paul Hornung, Tamarick Vanover, Lewis Billups. I could have listed the criems associated with each, but to be honest, I'm far too lazy and if you need to know and somehow don't already, google is a mousclick away.

Doesn't that list of felons bring back memories?

All these guys have been jailed, arrested, charged or still in jail from everything from DUI to DWI, possessing coke to trafficing it, from domestic violence to rape, or even murder. None play in the NFL anymore and several of them found their way out of the NFL for their transgressions.
Nice research, it is appreciated. Yup those names do bring back memories. I have to agree that maybe part of it is just being more aware of it now. I still think though that the rash of recent problems we've seen is the tip of the inevitable iceberg. Pride made an excellent point about not being prepared regarding the money end of it, and meathead made an excellent point about the part society plays in it. I guess that's why I started the thread with a question mark in it, I was really looking for some good thoughts and I think everyone in this thread has really added to it.

[Ickybaluky]

i think the key is our grotesque hero worship when it comes to athletes

Not just athletes, but entertainers and famous people (I throw that in so political figures can be included) of all types.

Just look at the likes of Lohan, Lindsay.

[Gunzlingr]

The NBA has been a league of mostly thugs for years now. The NFL is the new NBA.

[Wys Guy]

So over the past few years, and especially this past 2, there seems to be an awful lot of players in serious trouble with the law. I can remember a time when a drug suspension was a serious thing but now that almost seems mild in the light of recent events involving NFL players. Shootings, alleged murders, domestic violence, and on and on it goes.

My second beef is with contracts. Forget the cash to cap nonsense, my beef is players who after singing a contract to play for a certain amount of dollars for a certain amount of time not honoring their word. Its disgusting.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I remember when people played football for respect, for the love of the game, they played because they were warriors who wanted more than anything else to win and be cheered by the home crowd and booed loudly when playing away. The so called warriors of today consist of Terrel Owens, Randy Moss who are themselves an easy target, but a mere reflection of a much larger problem. The players today are gifted athletes and in most cases physically superior to players of yester year. But many today lack heart, passion, and concern for anything other for themselves. Put TO or Randy Moss next to Steve Largent and the physocal mismatch is unquestionable. However, Largent, like so many other star players of days gone by showed up to play both on gameday and practice throughout the week without the media circus or drama we see today.

So in light of all of this I think the game of Football is in serious trouble. "High character" often gets a negative rap on this site and others, but its the players who lack character who damage their teams, ruin seasons, and will eventually kill the game unless their is a significant change in the near future. Sadly I only seeing it get worse before it gets better. Just my opinion.

Good thoughts!

Dutchman made a great point on this all being a reflection of society at large.

As to players not honoring their contracts, in a league where the cap goes up as exponentially as it has in recent seasons, yet with no guarantees that it will to owners and GMs, contracts are written today that may not be equitable only a season or two later.

Sometimes that matters sometimes it doesn't, but young players at the forefront of their primes have a legitimate gripe if they sign one and then two seasons later for top performance they are among the league's average earners.

Peters is in that boat after just having restructured. IMO his agent sucks otherwise they'd have gotten more. But that's another story altogether.

Players that are 30 or past generally won't acknowledge that their abilities will begin to decline yet understandably so. But that must be factored in by the team that they will play for. Darwin Walker falls into this category. He was never a much above average player and tremendously inconsistent to boot. He's had some injuries and is long for wear and tear. He's 30 now and if the Bills do offer him more, it shouldn't be much and for this season only until he proves that he can offer something more than we have on our DL now at DT. IMO Walker's finished as anything but a depth player and the $1.3M that he's scheduled to get is a fine sum for a depth role, 3rd string likely even.

As to "playing for respect," it is the NFL and the owners that have turned this league into a "business first" prospect, not the players, or at least not driven by the players. So the owners and league have their wish. Again, the adage applies, "be careful what you wish for you may just get it."

The NFL has produced a league that is run by business first and the players accommodate that within the guidelines that the league has set. Whether they get paid "too much" is all relative since the market determines that and as long as you and others are willing to shell out $70 or more for tix to a Bills game, various merchandise associated with the same players, etc., then the market supports all of it.

The league, IMO, as evidenced by this last postseason which featured the most mediocre group of playoff teams ever, has attained to a perfect model of mediocrity. They call it "parity" but that's merely parsing words and semantics.

I agree with you that the game of football is in serious trouble, but for different reasons. I see a league that has facilitated going astray from the basics and from fundamental football. Purists will be more and more dissatisfied with the product that the NFL puts out as time goes on.

Much as with other sports the focus is now on individual players with less concern for the team aspect of it. That's also a societal characteristic these days. Everything's about the individual and "his/her" rights to hell with the welfare/health of society at large. So that's just par for the course there.

Why many fans seem more concerned about a great player on a 6-10 team that isn't competitive otherwise is beyond me. But I guess that's "the new mentality."

Anyway, expect more and more of what we got in the playoffs this past season, namely teams that in the NFL ten or more seasons ago would never have even had a shot at playoffs or winning a SB to be in a position to do so now in "the new NFL." Like it or not, that's the way it's gonna be. It is what the NFL has made it.

Once the Bills leave town, and my prediction is after the '10 season for good reason that I'll explain, but then my focus on the NFL will be a passing interest with a focus on FFL. I may go to some games around the league but I won't genuinely care about any team.

I'll state my reason for why I believe that '10 is the last season for the Bills in a new post. It should generate some interest.

[Historian]

I'll now just name a laundry list of players that are no way associated with the NFL anymore who had trouble with the law in the past. Andre Rison, Lawrence Phillips, Dexter Manley, LT, Chip Banks, Bruce Smith, Todd Marinovich, Michael Irvin, Rae Carruth, OJ, Jim Brown, Mark Chmura, Nate Newton, Romo, Darrell Russell, Mark Gastineau, Jim Dunaway, Gene Atkins, Eugene Robinson, Art Schlichter, Biscuit, Warren Moon, Deion Sanders, Hollywood Henderson, Bam Morris, Brian or Bennie Blades, Mercury Morris, Darryl Henley, Stanley Wilson, Rafael Septien, Carlton Haselrig, Cole Ford, Paul Hornung, Tamarick Vanover, Lewis Billups. I could have listed the criems associated with each, but to be honest, I'm far too lazy and if you need to know and somehow don't already, google is a mousclick away.

.

New Game:

1000. Zonebucks to the guy that matches the crime to the player, courtesy of the Historian!

Ready...set....GO!

[ublinkwescore]

Lawrence Phillips - beat his girlfriend
Tony Romo - DUI
Bruce Smith - Alcohol related problems
Jim Brown - Domestic Violence and probably a few other things (like throwing girfriend off of balcony - allegedly)
LT - Crack-Cocaine abuse + hookers
Michael Irvin - Cokehead
Nate Newton - Trafficking of Narcotics
Darrell Russell - DUI
Actually, I'm guessing the rest of them were for DUIs or
Domestic Violence, or Narcotics
Maybe a few homicides (OJ and Ray Lewis).

[ajsdx]

Tony Romo - DUI


"Romo" is Romanowski, not Tony Romo. Name your crime for that dude.