Marv on Sirrius, say DiGorgio could beat out Poz for MLB!!!

[Philagape]

but they wanted to bring in that other lb they cut for a look. Contradiction .

The cheap ones.

[OpIv37]

:roflmao: Stamer? The guy intercepted your beloved JP "I'll give him several years to develop" Losman . WTF are you reading?

OKay so we should just believe you instead of Marv? Okay. We'll just have to trust you even though you weren't at camp. Nice logic there :coocoo:

So, when Cam Cameron says the Dolphins will be in the playoff hunt, it's coachspeak and shouldn't be taken seriously, but when Jauron says a player impresses him, it's the honest truth?

Whatever.

And QB isn't the same as LB. I'm glad you're not coach or GM because you seem to think that EVERY player should be treated EXACTLY the same regardless of position, injury, or mistakes by previous coaching regimes.

[justasportsfan]

So, when Cam Cameron says the Dolphins will be in the playoff hunt, it's coachspeak and shouldn't be taken seriously, but when Jauron says a player impresses him, it's the honest truth?

Whatever.

And QB isn't the same as LB. I'm glad you're not coach or GM because you seem to think that EVERY player should be treated EXACTLY the same regardless of position, injury, or mistakes by previous coaching regimes.


Great switch to Cam.:rolleyes:

I won't believe either MArv nor Cam and wait and see for myself. But you on the other hand without seeing anything already think DiG stinks.

Great , the blind calling someone ugly.




I take everything said with a grain of salt. I was one of the first one to call out Marv when he said we're not rebuilding last year . :rolleyes:

I'm suppose to take what Marv says with a grain of salt but when it comes to you we just have to trust you? NEVER.

[OpIv37]

Great switch to Cam.:rolleyes:

I won't believe either MArv nor Cam and wait and see for myself. But you on the other hand without seeing anything already think DiG stinks.

Great , the blind calling someone ugly.




I take everything said with a grain of salt. I was one of the first one to call out Marv when he said we're not rebuilding last year . :rolleyes:

I'm suppose to take what Marv says with a grain of salt but when it comes to you we just have to trust you? NEVER.

you don't have to trust me. You can see how DiGiorgio played last year in the game tapes and you can see where he was on the depth chart, behind our two departed LB's who are supposedly mediocre. You have the fact that 32 NFL GM's passed on him a total of 224 times.

And you think he improved enough in ONE YEAR to over come all that and be productive on the field?

Our LB situation is weak so I wouldn't be surprised if he's in the top 3, but to expect him to be suddenly be productive, particularly on this D with no DL help and question marks at CB, is just ridiculous.

[patmoran2006]

you don't have to trust me. You can see how DiGiorgio played last year in the game tapes and you can see where he was on the depth chart, behind our two departed LB's who are supposedly mediocre. You have the fact that 32 NFL GM's passed on him a total of 224 times.

And you think he improved enough in ONE YEAR to over come all that and be productive on the field?

Our LB situation is weak so I wouldn't be surprised if he's in the top 3, but to expect him to be suddenly be productive, particularly on this D with no DL help and question marks at CB, is just ridiculous.
yer back to wasting your time and energy going back and forth with someone who's never gonna have anything to say valid other than you're not smarter than Marv Levy.

I thought you learned your lesson.

[justasportsfan]

you don't have to trust me. You can see how DiGiorgio played last year in the game tapes and you can see where he was on the depth chart, behind our two departed LB's who are supposedly mediocre. You have the fact that 32 NFL GM's passed on him a total of 224 times.

And you think he improved enough in ONE YEAR to over come all that and be productive on the field?

Our LB situation is weak so I wouldn't be surprised if he's in the top 3, but to expect him to be suddenly be productive, particularly on this D with no DL help and question marks at CB, is just ridiculous.


Just like Peters in his rookie year compared to his 2nd year? Puhlease. I'd rather wait and see for myself.

Marv could be blowing smoke up our arse but I wouldn't also put it beyond Dig to pull of a Jason Peters. In your world , nothing good like that can happen to a bills player even if it just happened w/ Peters. Pathetic.

Yeah the same fact that all those GM's past ob Colston , Peters and Brady

[OpIv37]

Just like Peters in his rookie year compared to his 2nd year? Puhlease. I'd rather wait and see for myself.

Marv could be blowing smoke up our arse but I wouldn't also put it beyond Dig to pull of a Jason Peters. In your world , nothing good like that can happen to a bills player even if it just happened w/ Peters. Pathetic.

In my world (the real one) players like Jason Peters are a rarity so I'm going to expect the most likely outcome: that the reasons a UDFA wasn't drafted will show on the field.

Proving that something is possible doesn't change the fact that it's highly unlikely. I don't know why so many people have such a hard time understand that.

[justasportsfan]

Not only that, Simpson and Ellison played decently IN THEIR ROOKIE YEAR for where they were drafted. You can't tell me that just DiG can't improve in his 2nd year.

[OpIv37]

Yeah the same fact that all those GM's past ob Colston , Peters and Brady

oh so now GM's can be wrong? But what about all that stuff you just said about trusting Marv? And how do you know that signing DiGiorgio wasn't a mistake?

[justasportsfan]

In my world (the real one) players like Jason Peters are a rarity so I'm going to expect the most likely outcome: that the reasons a UDFA wasn't drafted will show on the field.

Proving that something is possible doesn't change the fact that it's highly unlikely. I don't know why so many people have such a hard time understand that.


Peters, Brady, Moorman, Fletcher,etc.etc.

No in your world it can't happen to the bills. Anything we do sucks. That's the reality of your world

[OpIv37]

Peters, Brady, Moorman, Fletcher,etc.etc.

No in your world it can't happen to the bills. Anything we do sucks. That's the reality of your world

in the real world it's UNLIKELY so I'm not going to EXPECT it to happen.

Meanwhile, you find one example and no matter how unlikely it is, you use it as the basis for optimism. That's insane. You're the guy who buys the Mercedes and the mansion before they announce the winning lotto numbers.

[justasportsfan]

oh so now GM's can be wrong? But what about all that stuff you just said about trusting Marv? And how do you know that signing DiGiorgio wasn't a mistake?


where did I ever say MArv can't be wrong? Show me. I just said I take his word with a grain of salt. You can't be that stupid, can you?


I don't know if DiG is a mistake, I said I'd rather wait and see than TAKE YOUR WORD because in your world now way no how players can improve even though I've listed a few players. One that was a QB, a position you said was hard to learn. Lb'er is easier.

[justasportsfan]

whatever. I don't have to defend myself to you.

Your usual , I'm done and then come back and then leave once you have been proven to be wrong with your logic.

The proof is there. It can happen in their 2nd year and it can happen to the bills . That's the real world. I have proof.

[OpIv37]

where did I ever say MArv can't be wrong? Show me. I just said I take his word with a grain of salt. You can't be that stupid, can you?


I don't know if DiG is a mistake, I said I'd rather wait and see than TAKE YOUR WORD because in your world now way no how players can improve even though I've listed a few players. One that was a QB, a position you said was hard to learn. Lb'er is easier.

a FEW as compared to the HUNDREDS who didn't improve. Why don't we just hire every coach with a losing record because Bill Bellicheck turned it around? Why don't we start Edwards because Ben Rothlisberger won a SB his rookie year? Why don't we make Roscoe Parrish our #1 WR because he's the same size as Steve Smith? Why don't we print up the SB champs now because we have undersized DT's and the Cover 2 just like the Colts?

The exception is not the rule.

[justasportsfan]

in the real world it's UNLIKELY so I'm not going to EXPECT it to happen.

Meanwhile, you find one example and no matter how unlikely it is, you use it as the basis for optimism. That's insane. ...

The proof is there. It can happen in their 2nd year and it can happen to the bills . That's the real world. I have proof.

[OpIv37]

The proof is there. It can happen in their 2nd year and it can happen to the bills . That's the real world. I have proof.

Your "proof" ignores the FACT that it DOESN'T happen a hell of a lot more than it DOES happen.

[mysticsoto]

a FEW as compared to the HUNDREDS who didn't improve. Why don't we just hire every coach with a losing record because Bill Bellicheck turned it around? Why don't we start Edwards because Ben Rothlisberger won a SB his rookie year? Why don't we make Roscoe Parrish our #1 WR because he's the same size as Steve Smith? Why don't we print up the SB champs now because we have undersized DT's and the Cover 2 just like the Colts?

The exception is not the rule.

The only difference Op is that you're going by what "typically" happens in those so called HUNDREDS of cases where it didn't - but you're discounting the fact that Marv and company are seeing what DiG has to offer right now. DiG may have fallen in those hundreds of cases up and until a qualified observer mentioned that he has greatly improved. From there, it moved forward from being in those hundreds of cases. Do you think they are now "inventing" his improvement and the fact that he's impressed them? Or are you putting your fingers in your ears and screaming "la-la-la" whenever you hear any good Bills news that you didn't expect to hear???

[justasportsfan]

Your "proof" ignores the FACT that it DOESN'T happen a hell of a lot more than it DOES happen.

I'm not talking about how often , I said that it CAN happen. In your world it CAN"T happen to DiG. That's just stupid.

[OpIv37]

I'm not talking about how often , I said that it CAN happen. In your world it CAN"T happen to DiG. That's just stupid.

do you know how to read? I said it's UNLIKELY to happen so I'm not EXPECTING it to happen. I'm expecting a UDFA to PLAY like a UDFA.

I never said it CAN'T happen. YOU said that.

You're not reading what I'm writing, you've already taken my posts COMPLETELY out of context to twist my words twice in this thread, and you're ignoring facts that don't support your point of view.

I'm done.

[dannyek71]

Poz can be an OLB and do the same. You don't need to be an MLB to make a huge impact.



Teddy Bruschi

[OpIv37]

The only difference Op is that you're going by what "typically" happens in those so called HUNDREDS of cases where it didn't - but you're discounting the fact that Marv and company are seeing what DiG has to offer right now. DiG may have fallen in those hundreds of cases up and until a qualified observer mentioned that he has greatly improved. From there, it moved forward from being in those hundreds of cases. Do you think they are now "inventing" his improvement and the fact that he's impressed them? Or are you putting your fingers in your ears and screaming "la-la-la" whenever you hear any good Bills news that you didn't expect to hear???

I think it's hypocritical for people on here to dismiss Cameron's playoff hopes for the Fins as coachspeak but believe what Jauron says about DiGiorgio.

I think it's highly unlikely for a player who barely played last year to make such great strides regardless of what the coach says.

I think it's easy to look good playing next to Haggan, Stamer and Ellison.

I think you and a bunch of other people jumped down my throat for some very mild comments I made about performances without pads in OTA's but are not applying that same standard to DiGiorgio's performance without pads.

I don't think it's good news that a UDFA LB that no one has ever heard of with minimal on-the-field experience may be our starting LB even if the coach is talking him up.

[justasportsfan]

do you know how to read? I said it's UNLIKELY to happen so I'm not EXPECTING it to happen. I'm expecting a UDFA to PLAY like a UDFA.

I never said it CAN'T happen. YOU said that.

You're not reading what I'm writing, you've already taken my posts COMPLETELY out of context to twist my words twice in this thread, and you're ignoring facts that don't support your point of view.

I'm done. To just go out and dissmiss MArv without having any proof whatsoever is not just saying unlikely.

I'm not the one ignorinf facts. You ignored the facts I presented because it proves you're wrong. Brady alone and all you QB is the hardest positon to learn and the fact that he's late rd. player means IT CAN HAPPEN.


Yeah you're done. That's what you say now.



I think it's hypocritical for people on here to dismiss Cameron's playoff hopes for the Fins as coachspeak but believe what Jauron says about DiGiorgio.

I think it's highly unlikely for a player who...

then tell that to those who dismissed cam. I didn't. Can you read?

[OpIv37]

To just go out and dissmiss MArv without having any proof whatsoever is not just saying unlikely.

I'm not the one ignorinf facts. You ignored the facts I presented because it proves you're wrong. Brady alone and all you QB is the hardest positon to learn and the fact that he's late rd. player means IT CAN HAPPEN.


Yeah you're done. That's what you say now.



then tell that to those who dismissed cam. I didn't. Can you read?

This isn't dismissing Cam?


anything can happen. most coaches say that crap.they have to if they want their players to think the coaches have faith in them. I doubt they will ever have negatives nancies for coaches who say nothing but we suck.

Brady is ONE player. I don't know why you are mentally incapable of making the distinction between POSSIBLE and LIKELY. And for the record, late round is not the same as undrafted. But, that would just be one more distinction that you struggle to make.

your facts didn't prove what I said was wrong- it only proves what you think I said was wrong.

[mysticsoto]

I think it's hypocritical for people on here to dismiss Cameron's playoff hopes for the Fins as coachspeak but believe what Jauron says about DiGiorgio.

I think it's highly unlikely for a player who barely played last year to make such great strides regardless of what the coach says.

I think it's easy to look good playing next to Haggan, Stamer and Ellison.

I think you and a bunch of other people jumped down my throat for some very mild comments I made about performances without pads in OTA's but are not applying that same standard to DiGiorgio's performance without pads.

I don't think it's good news that a UDFA LB that no one has ever heard of with minimal on-the-field experience may be our starting LB even if the coach is talking him up.

Okay, #1, OTAs always favor offense, not defense - since there is no hitting. I have stated this before and think it's kind of obvious, but apparently it bears repeating.

#2, Cameron gave nothing specific as to how Miami who was so low on the totem pole last year, is going to magically end up in the playoffs. However, Marv mentioned specifically that DiG is looking good - not that LB depth is better than he thought. Not that our LB corps looks good but specifically that DiG is impressing them. There was nothing vague about his comments at all and therefore quite different than what Cameron said. Is he the next Urlacher? No one is saying that here. But at the very least, you should be glad that it likely means, at worst, that we have better depth at LB than we thought we did! If somehow, DiG performs so well that he wins the MLB spot, great! We get a LB who is playing his ass off for us then, which is all we can ask for!!!


I think it's easy to look good playing next to Haggan, Stamer and Ellison.

This is a stupid line! Like Marv and Jauron haven't ever seen better that what they currently have right now...if they are giving him credit it's b'cse he's improved tremendously. They are seeing him and NOT YOU, so forgive me if I give them the nod on what to believe!!!

Oh, and by the way, I wasn't aware that only popular LBs were the ones you can play. Apparently, if the rest of the NFL has never heard of him, then he can't start for us. Boy, I don't know how Peters, Pat Williams and all those guys ever made it on our team...sure glad you weren't GM! You don't seem to think people have the capacity and capability to improve. I saw plenty of signs of DiG doing well last year. I even remember having to look up his number b'cse he made some great plays last year in his limited time. But positive news doesn't stick in your head for very long!!!

[Philagape]

I never said it CAN'T happen.


"You can wait and see all you want for our LB's to get better but it ain't gonna happen."


And saying you can't believe it's even being considered pretty much implies it oo

[OpIv37]

Okay, #1, OTAs always favor offense, not defense - since there is no hitting. I have stated this before and think it's kind of obvious, but apparently it bears repeating.

#2, Cameron gave nothing specific as to how Miami who was so low on the totem pole last year, is going to magically end up in the playoffs. However, Marv mentioned specifically that DiG is looking good - not that LB depth is better than he thought. Not that our LB corps looks good but specifically that DiG is impressing them. There was nothing vague about his comments at all and therefore quite different than what Cameron said. Is he the next Urlacher? No one is saying that here. But at the very least, you should be glad that it likely means, at worst, that we have better depth at LB than we thought we did! If somehow, DiG performs so well that he wins the MLB spot, great! We get a LB who is playing his ass off for us then, which is all we can ask for!!!



This is a stupid line! Like Marv and Jauron haven't ever seen better that what they currently have right now...if they are giving him credit it's b'cse he's improved tremendously. They are seeing him and NOT YOU, so forgive me if I give them the nod on what to believe!!!

Oh, and by the way, I wasn't aware that only popular LBs were the ones you can play. Apparently, if the rest of the NFL has never heard of him, then he can't start for us. Boy, I don't know how Peters, Pat Williams and all those guys ever made it on our team...sure glad you weren't GM! You don't seem to think people have the capacity and capability to improve. I saw plenty of signs of DiG doing well last year. I even remember having to look up his number b'cse he made some great plays last year in his limited time. But positive news doesn't stick in your head for very long!!!

So, you're evaluating a linebacker without hitting, meaning you don't get to see how he tackles or sheds blocks? Yeah, I'm sure that's really accurate. :rolleyes:

So what if the comments were specific? Coaches need to play the PR game to keep the fans interested too. If Ellison or someone else sucks, what's gonna get the fans more excited? "We had to bench Ellison" or "DiGiorgio has really improved"? Just because the coach's comments were specific doesn't make them 100% true.

You obviously misunderstood the name thing. Who would you rather have at LB: someone who has made a name for himself by making plays, or someone like DiGiorgio who hasn't done anything yet and is just one more question mark to add to the huge list of question marks we have on D?

[OpIv37]

the fact that you guys are even arguing this point is insanity. We really have accepted mediocrity in Buffalo.

[justasportsfan]

This isn't dismissing Cam?


Saying "anything can happen" NO!!

The 2nd part agrees with you that GM's and coaches blow steam. Any problem with agreeing woith you.

Nice attempt to try and spin what I said .

[justasportsfan]

I never said it CAN'T happen.



Quote:
Originally Posted by OpIv37
"You can wait and see all you want for our LB's to get better but it ain't gonna happen."



And saying you can't believe it's even being considered pretty much implies it oo

BURN!!!!!

[justasportsfan]

the fact that you guys are even arguing this point is insanity. We really have accepted mediocrity in Buffalo.

That's your interpretation... but NO. It simply means that we are open to the POSSIBILITY that a player can become a good player in this league no matter where they were drafted and that we'd rather wait and see than just TRUST YOU !!!

[raphael120]

Someone just make it stop! :cry:

[OpIv37]

That's your interpretation... but NO. It simply means that we are open to the POSSIBILITY that a player can become a good player in this league no matter where they were drafted and that we'd rather wait and see than just TRUST YOU !!!
ALL we have on D is possibilities. It's Schobel, the safety position and a bunch of ****ing possibilities. I don't know how you can get excited about yet another question mark thrown into the mix.

[John Doe]

ALL we have on D is possibilities. It's Schobel, the safety position and a bunch of ****ing possibilities. I don't know how you can get excited about yet another question mark thrown into the mix.

Is John D. looking good in preseason a good thing or a bad thing?

[Michael82]

Someone just make it stop! :cry:
This smilie is definitely needed for anyone who reads this thread....

http://www.bwhacks.com/forums/images/smilies/bangwall.gif

[acehole]

ALL we have on D is possibilities. It's Schobel, the safety position and a bunch of ****ing possibilities. I don't know how you can get excited about yet another question mark thrown into the mix.

Starting to get old op. Why exactly are you a fan of this team again?

Nothing wrong with being critical...
but jeezze the nashing of teeth is a bit much.

[Goobylal]

Can someone, ANYONE, provide a quote from Levy or Jauron, where either says that Poz will be played at MLB only?

As for Harris, he's proven nothing so far. And he played in a 3-4 in college, like Poz did after PSU changed to it his senior year. The difference is that Harris has never played OLB like Poz has, and the Bills don't play a 3-4. They projected Poz to MLB because Fletcher left and they didn't know what they had in DiGiorgio. Now that they do, if he continues to impress them, the Bills will move Poz back outside (to start over the much-maligned Keith Ellison), NOT make him a backup at MLB. Capiche?

[patmoran2006]

Since when is Ellison "much-maligned"?

A few months ago he was good enough that not only did we not sign ANY FA LB"s, but we dumped Takeo SPikes in a salary dump as well.

[Goobylal]

I've seen more than a few "Ellison is a backup at best" posts.

[Philagape]

It would be no shame if Ellison went back to being a backup. The only reason he started last year was Spikes' injury, and he was only a sixth-round pick. So what if he doesn't start?

There'$ only one rea$on we dumped $pike$ and didn't $ign other linebacker$.

[Goobylal]

Sure Ellison started because of the injury to Spikes, but he showed that he belonged, even though he was a rookie 6th round pick who missed all but one of the OTA's and didn't get starter's reps anytime before the season began. I'd be fine with him starting, but I also think that Poz could be a great OLB.

[OpIv37]

Is John D. looking good in preseason a good thing or a bad thing?

That's kind of a loaded question. What definition of "good" are you using? Good in real NFL terms? Good in pre-season no pads terms? Good relative to our other linebackers?

And good enough to be a starter? Well, that becomes a "half full or half empty" situation. The "half full" side is that I wasn't all that impressed with Ellison so if Poz-DiGiorgio-Crowell is better than Ellison-Poz-Crowell, that's good. However, DiGiorgio is even less experienced than Ellison so that's the "half empty" side. Of course, neither have much experience so maybe it's an insignificant distinction, but with Poz being a rookie, any experience is welcome.

Anyway, if it is Poz-DiGiorgio-Crowell- Crowell has about 25 starts (give or take a few- I coudn't find the exact number), Poz has 0 and DiGiorgio has 0. That's a scary prospect.

[OpIv37]

Starting to get old op. Why exactly are you a fan of this team again?

Nothing wrong with being critical...
but jeezze the nashing of teeth is a bit much.

I think I've been over this but here goes:

I want to see this team WIN. I fail to see how John DiGiorgio as a starting LB is going to help us do that.

[mysticsoto]

So, you're evaluating a linebacker without hitting, meaning you don't get to see how he tackles or sheds blocks? Yeah, I'm sure that's really accurate. :rolleyes:

So what if the comments were specific? Coaches need to play the PR game to keep the fans interested too. If Ellison or someone else sucks, what's gonna get the fans more excited? "We had to bench Ellison" or "DiGiorgio has really improved"? Just because the coach's comments were specific doesn't make them 100% true.

You obviously misunderstood the name thing. Who would you rather have at LB: someone who has made a name for himself by making plays, or someone like DiGiorgio who hasn't done anything yet and is just one more question mark to add to the huge list of question marks we have on D?

I'm evaluating DiG based on Marv's comments on what he has seen recently of DiG. What are you evaluating him on? Last year's play. Your stuck in the past and can't accept that someone can actually improve in the offseason if they really put in effort and try.

Here we go with the coaches are playing the PR game crap. 1st of all, it wasn't the coach that said this, it was Marv. 2nd of all, Marv has always been a straight shooter and not the more speaking out of the side of his mouth type of person.

To answer your last question, I would rather have a LB in the game that can actually play and is the best possible player out of the corps of LBs that we have. I don't care if he's popular. I don't care if the rest of the NFL knows him. I don't care how he did last year. If he's upped his game and improves our defense by being in, I want him in. Period.

[OpIv37]

I'm evaluating DiG based on Marv's comments on what he has seen recently of DiG. What are you evaluating him on? Last year's play. Your stuck in the past and can't accept that someone can actually improve in the offseason if they really put in effort and try.

Here we go with the coaches are playing the PR game crap. 1st of all, it wasn't the coach that said this, it was Marv. 2nd of all, Marv has always been a straight shooter and not the more speaking out of the side of his mouth type of person.

To answer your last question, I would rather have a LB in the game that can actually play and is the best possible player out of the corps of LBs that we have. I don't care if he's popular. I don't care if the rest of the NFL knows him. I don't care how he did last year. If he's upped his game and improves our defense by being in, I want him in. Period.

and this is the whole problem right here. Being our best possible player doesn't make him good enough.

And Marv has to play the PR game just like everyone else. That doesn't make him dishonest or something- it's just part of the job- deal with it.

[Goobylal]

Wait, how is saying that a former UDFA possibly being the starter at MLB over a 2nd rounder who they traded-up to get, GOOD PR?

[mysticsoto]

and this is the whole problem right here. Being our best possible player doesn't make him good enough.

??? Uhhh...so you advocate not putting the best possible player out there???



And Marv has to play the PR game just like everyone else. That doesn't make him dishonest or something- it's just part of the job- deal with it.

Do you have any instances to back up what you are claiming? As far as I can see, Marv has never been that type of person. Even in the draft, Marv made no attempts to create a smoke screen with what he said. He simply gave little details out. If you can prove that Marv is the type that plays the PR game, by all means, post it. I bet you are unable to do so however...

[im4bflo]

Whatever... sooner or later, it's...
:xtreme: " da POZ! " :xtreme:
and whoever else makes the...
POZSQUAD #51

[mysticsoto]

Wait, how is saying that a former UDFA possibly being the starter at MLB over a 2nd rounder who they traded-up to get, GOOD PR?

Op is basically grasping at straws hoping to prove his pessimistic side is correct when in fact he has nothing to stand on. A few weeks back he was complaining that we have poor depth at the position. When we get good news that DiG is impressing, he can't accept it and must try to turn that into a negative. It almost seems like a psychological denial defense mechanism so he is not disappointed if he starts to believe too much in the Bills and they don't come through for him...

[OpIv37]

??? Uhhh...so you advocate not putting the best possible player out there???


huh? I never said anything remotely like that. All I said was that him being the best on our team doesn't automatically make him good enough to help us win.


Do you have any instances to back up what you are claiming? As far as I can see, Marv has never been that type of person. Even in the draft, Marv made no attempts to create a smoke screen with what he said. He simply gave little details out. If you can prove that Marv is the type that plays the PR game, by all means, post it. I bet you are unable to do so however...[/QUOTE]

are you that ****ing naive to think that public figures tell the media everything they're thinking? Look, it's part of Marv's job to get people coming to games and that means spinning things at times. deal with it.

[OpIv37]

Wait, how is saying that a former UDFA possibly being the starter at MLB over a 2nd rounder who they traded-up to get, GOOD PR?

If it's "ellison sucks and is getting benched" vs "this no name LB is emerging", choice 2 is the better PR. I can't believe this requires an explanation.

[OpIv37]

Op is basically grasping at straws hoping to prove his pessimistic side is correct when in fact he has nothing to stand on. A few weeks back he was complaining that we have poor depth at the position. When we get good news that DiG is impressing, he can't accept it and must try to turn that into a negative. It almost seems like a psychological denial defense mechanism so he is not disappointed if he starts to believe too much in the Bills and they don't come through for him...

you consider DiGiorgio quality depth and you accuse ME of psychological denial?

I want this team to WIN but I'm not afraid to see what's really going on. You're too busy grasping at straws for anything that might suggest this team won't suck that you're disconnected from reality.

[mysticsoto]

huh? I never said anything remotely like that. All I said was that him being the best on our team doesn't automatically make him good enough to help us win.
What you are saying here is irrelevant to who plays. You play the best player, period.



Do you have any instances to back up what you are claiming? As far as I can see, Marv has never been that type of person. Even in the draft, Marv made no attempts to create a smoke screen with what he said. He simply gave little details out. If you can prove that Marv is the type that plays the PR game, by all means, post it. I bet you are unable to do so however...

are you that ****ing naive to think that public figures tell the media everything they're thinking? Look, it's part of Marv's job to get people coming to games and that means spinning things at times. deal with it.
Just as I thought...you can't back up your own claim...if Marv wanted to do some PR spinning, he would have said something about how good Poz is looking - not how much a backup LB is impressing them. Not only can you not prove that Marv is that type of GM, but your stance as to the reason he said that doesn't even make any sense???

[mysticsoto]

you consider DiGiorgio quality depth and you accuse ME of psychological denial?

I want this team to WIN but I'm not afraid to see what's really going on. You're too busy grasping at straws for anything that might suggest this team won't suck that you're disconnected from reality.

I'll take Marv's own words over yours any day. Marv has seen what these guys have done from the offseason up to now. What have you seen? What's that? Nothing? What's your last recollection of DiG? Can you even remember? Oh, maybe you should leave comments on how DiG is actually looking to someone who has actually seen him recently. Apparently you are not one of those people...

[mysticsoto]

If it's "ellison sucks and is getting benched" vs "this no name LB is emerging", choice 2 is the better PR. I can't believe this requires an explanation.

This is a very poor defense of your stance for someone as intelligent as you, Op. First of all, it is poor b'cse NOBODY is getting benched at this point when you haven't even gone into TC yet. Being benched is not even being considered yet - they are FAR, FAR away from getting to that point.

Nice try, but as I said, your stance is shaky, poor and crumbling as we speak. Your PR stance makes no sense whatsoever.

[Goobylal]

If it's "ellison sucks and is getting benched" vs "this no name LB is emerging", choice 2 is the better PR. I can't believe this requires an explanation.
Are you kidding me? When did Ellison enter into this? :rolleyes:

[Philagape]

it DOESN'T happen a hell of a lot more than it DOES happen.

It happens enough to not assume that it won't

[John Doe]

Is John D. looking good in preseason a good thing or a bad thing?


That's kind of a loaded question. What definition of "good" are you using? Good in real NFL terms? Good in pre-season no pads terms? Good relative to our other linebackers?

And good enough to be a starter? Well, that becomes a "half full or half empty" situation. The "half full" side is that I wasn't all that impressed with Ellison so if Poz-DiGiorgio-Crowell is better than Ellison-Poz-Crowell, that's good. However, DiGiorgio is even less experienced than Ellison so that's the "half empty" side. Of course, neither have much experience so maybe it's an insignificant distinction, but with Poz being a rookie, any experience is welcome.

Anyway, if it is Poz-DiGiorgio-Crowell- Crowell has about 25 starts (give or take a few- I coudn't find the exact number), Poz has 0 and DiGiorgio has 0. That's a scary prospect.

It's not a "loaded question."

It's a simple yes or no question unqualified by anything else.

I don't see any reason why any true Bills fan could not give a straight answer.

I will ask it again:

Is John D. looking good in preseason a good thing or a bad thing?

[acehole]

I think I've been over this but here goes:

I want to see this team WIN. I fail to see how John DiGiorgio as a starting LB is going to help us do that.

2 things here...MArv has a great way of motivating Young players here..he may just be rewarding John and pushing Poz. Nothing in engraved in stone.

or Not

If the coaching staff thinks they have something here and you don't it doesn't mean they are idiots,jerks or want to see the team fail.....they dont
need a buch of fans on these boards to tell them what to do.

What do you do for a living agAIN?

[Mitchy moo]

Is John D. looking good in preseason a good thing or a bad thing?

Nail, meet head.

[ublinkwescore]

you consider DiGiorgio quality depth and you accuse ME of psychological denial?

I want this team to WIN but I'm not afraid to see what's really going on. You're too busy grasping at straws for anything that might suggest this team won't suck that you're disconnected from reality.

That's exactly what rubs people the wrong way on here Op, is the fact that you come off as KNOWING beyond any shadow of a doubt that this team is gonna suck - and that the possible is impossible for us, that anything that could be potentially good is always a double-edged sword.

In that case, why do you even watch the Bills play - is it so you can watch them lose? I mean you know we're gonna suck and that's all there is to it - so why watch if you call yourself a fan?

It's like you get some jollies pissing people off (though you're not as talented at it as Sab and TD are).

[justasportsfan]

you consider DiGiorgio quality depth and you accuse ME of psychological denial?

I want this team to WIN but I'm not afraid to see what's really going on..

If you can see clearly whats going on how come you didn't guess last year right.
HOw come you didn't know what was going on last year when you eventually said "they exceeded my expectations"?

Give me a break, the FO exceeded the nancies expectations but instead of giving them the benefit of a doubt, you wys and PAt are desperately trying to find anything to complain about since you guys were wrong about last year.



You're too busy grasping at straws for anything that might suggest this team won't suck that you're disconnected from reality.


the reality is, you don't know squat. You pretend you know more than the coaches. While the rest of us would rather wait and see, you act like you know it all.

[jdbillsfan]

I will say one thing.

If this was Miami or another rival, and it was a no-name Undrafted Wr that Cameron said may start ahead of Ted Ginn this year, you guys would be losing your minds making fun of fins fans.


There is a difference between a player drafted in the top 10 and in the 2nd round. Not all 2nd rounders start immediately. Top 10 players are expected to start right away.

[madness]

the reality is, you don't know squat. You pretend you know more than the coaches. While the rest of us would rather wait and see, you act like you know it all.

The reality is that people seem to think they can evaluate talent better then Marv whose one of the premiere talent evaluators in the league. This is the same people who slight Marv(He was just a great HC :rolleyes:), praise Polian and consider him one of the premier talent evaluators in league.

Well guess what? Polian himself has gone record as saying everything he learned about evaluating talent, he learned from Marv.

Polian built the Colts on the same recipe that he and Marv used in Buffalo.


He methodically went about working the draft to put together a club that would be good, if not great, over a prolonged stretch. Free agency is for quick fixes that, at best, will generate short-term success. For Polian, the best players are homegrown. He has as keen an eye for identifying NFL talent in the college ranks as anyone in league history. He has authored a "scouting bible" for Colts scouts to use when assessing players. The basic requirements to play for Polian's team are intelligence, good character and proper football temperament (which is another way of saying that, even though most of them have a gentlemanly demeanor off the field, they can take and deliver hits with the best of them). He wants players who will learn from a superb teacher, Dungy, just as the Buffalo players he acquired learned from another exceptional teacher, Hall of Famer Marv Levy.


Sound familiar?? Of course! It's because Marv is doing the same thing here! Dick Jauron has always been known as a superb teacher and Marv is bringing in the same type of character players.

The problem lies there within. These same people are either so sick of losing, they bash everything in sight or they are the same exact type of people that Marv and Polian dislike... people without character would who rather bring attention to themselves.

[justasportsfan]

It's simple, they can't accept the fact that they were wrong when MArv and the bills exceeded their expectations. WRONG!

[OpIv37]

What you are saying here is irrelevant to who plays. You play the best player, period.




Just as I thought...you can't back up your own claim...if Marv wanted to do some PR spinning, he would have said something about how good Poz is looking - not how much a backup LB is impressing them. Not only can you not prove that Marv is that type of GM, but your stance as to the reason he said that doesn't even make any sense???

what the hell do you mean "that type of GM"? ALL GM's have to play the PR game. Where's your proof that Marv ISN'T playing the PR game? Did you see DiGiorgio play yourself? I happen to know for a fact that you didn't because OTA's/minicamp weren't open to the public. So your claim that Marv's assessment of DiGiorgio isn't spin is no more valid or invalid than my assertation that it is spin.

[OpIv37]

If you can see clearly whats going on how come you didn't guess last year right.
HOw come you didn't know what was going on last year when you eventually said "they exceeded my expectations"?

Give me a break, the FO exceeded the nancies expectations but instead of giving them the benefit of a doubt, you wys and PAt are desperately trying to find anything to complain about since you guys were wrong about last year.




the reality is, you don't know squat. You pretend you know more than the coaches. While the rest of us would rather wait and see, you act like you know it all.

I was wrong about JP struggling early? I was wrong about the DL being pitiful? I was wrong about guys like Whitner and Simpson showing their youth? I was wrong about the OL struggling? I was wrong about Jauron making some questionable decisions?

I was ONE GAME off in my prediction. They exceeded my expectations by ONE WHOLE GAME. Wow. They also made a ****load of bad choices in FA. If that's all it takes to earn your trust, maybe you're too trusting.

But this isn't about me being wrong or right. This is about whether or not having John DiGiorgio as a starting LB will help this team win. I seriously doubt it will.

[OpIv37]

That's exactly what rubs people the wrong way on here Op, is the fact that you come off as KNOWING beyond any shadow of a doubt that this team is gonna suck - and that the possible is impossible for us, that anything that could be potentially good is always a double-edged sword.

In that case, why do you even watch the Bills play - is it so you can watch them lose? I mean you know we're gonna suck and that's all there is to it - so why watch if you call yourself a fan?

It's like you get some jollies pissing people off (though you're not as talented at it as Sab and TD are).

AAAARRRGGGHHH some unknown UDFA LB with limited game experience may be starting. Do I know for a fact that he will suck? No. But what's the most likely outcome- some no-name UDFA LB with very little game experience starting and doing well out of nowhere, or some no-name UDFA LB with very little game experience PLAYING like a no name UDFA LB with very little game experience?

I watch the Bills play because I'm a FAN, regardless of how I think the team will do or what they actually do on the field. But unlike the rest of you, I don't need to convince myself that having an unknown UDFA LB as a starter is a good thing in order to watch the team. I can accept the reality that the most likely outcome is more struggles.

[OpIv37]

This is a very poor defense of your stance for someone as intelligent as you, Op. First of all, it is poor b'cse NOBODY is getting benched at this point when you haven't even gone into TC yet. Being benched is not even being considered yet - they are FAR, FAR away from getting to that point.

Nice try, but as I said, your stance is shaky, poor and crumbling as we speak. Your PR stance makes no sense whatsoever.

what? This post makes no ****ing sense.

If DiGiorgio is close to starting and Poz is moving over, then Ellison is just as close to being benched as DiGiorgio is to starting.

[justasportsfan]

I was wrong about JP struggling early? I was wrong about the DL being pitiful? I was wrong about guys like Whitner and Simpson showing their youth? I was wrong about the OL struggling? I was wrong about Jauron making some questionable decisions?.Puhlease, you just stated the obvious.



I was ONE GAME off in my prediction. They exceeded my expectations by ONE WHOLE GAME. Wow. They also made a ****load of bad choices in FA. If that's all it takes to earn your trust, maybe you're too trusting.

But this isn't about me being wrong or right. This is about whether or not having John DiGiorgio as a starting LB will help this team win. I seriously doubt it will.


One game or 3 you were wrong when you said they exceeded their expectation. That in itself deserves a benefit of a doubt instead of your "I know better, they are wrong".

BAd choices in FA, Polian did the same, helloo!!!!

[OpIv37]

Puhlease, you just stated the obvious.


That's all I EVER do. Seems pretty obvious to me that we shouldn't expect big things from a UDFA LB with no game experience who couldn't beat out Spikes and Fletch, but for some reason people don't want to see it.



One game or 3 you were wrong when you said they exceeded their expectation. That in itself deserves a benefit of a doubt instead of your "I know better, they are wrong".

BAd choices in FA, Polian did the same, helloo!!!!

I wasn't wrong about everything- they still have a lot to prove.

Bad choices in FA, TD did the same , helloo!!

[Dr. Lecter]

This just might be a Hall of Fame thread.

[justasportsfan]

This just might be a Hall of Fame thread.
It might. It' shows how OP is so WRONG!

[ublinkwescore]

AAAARRRGGGHHH some unknown UDFA LB with limited game experience may be starting. Do I know for a fact that he will suck? No. But what's the most likely outcome- some no-name UDFA LB with very little game experience starting and doing well out of nowhere, or some no-name UDFA LB with very little game experience PLAYING like a no name UDFA LB with very little game experience?

I watch the Bills play because I'm a FAN, regardless of how I think the team will do or what they actually do on the field. But unlike the rest of you, I don't need to convince myself that having an unknown UDFA LB as a starter is a good thing in order to watch the team. I can accept the reality that the most likely outcome is more struggles.

Look, the way I look at it, is Fletcher was a pursuit LB - we drafted Poz SUPPOSEDLY because he was a hole filler - a guy that would get up and get in linemen's faces and try to stuff the run - so if DiGiorgio is able to impress the staff enough to where they start moving him up into the starting lineup at MLB and move Poz outside - which was his natural position, then that's a good thing in my book because it puts Crowell on one side, DiGiorgio inside, and Poz on the other and leaves us with Ellison as a capable back-up for either outside position, and we can move Poz inside should DiGiorgio go down.

It seems to me that they drafted Poz to fill the void left by Fletcher initially - so if DiGiorgio is able to do at least an adequate job, wouldn't it make sense to move your highly coveted LB back to his natural position (the one he made his name popular by playing in college)?

[justasportsfan]

I wasn't wrong about everything- they still have a lot to prove.

Bad choices in FA, TD did the same , helloo!!


I agree they have a lot to prove. Let them prove it first before you even start acting like you know better. DUH!!!

WTF has TD have to do with my comparison to Polian who you admire a lot? :snicker: I never said TD didn't make mistakes in FA. YOu just proved my point, every GM makes mistakes especially in their first year .That was stupid.

[OpIv37]

Look, the way I look at it, is Fletcher was a pursuit LB - we drafted Poz SUPPOSEDLY because he was a hole filler - a guy that would get up and get in linemen's faces and try to stuff the run - so if DiGiorgio is able to impress the staff enough to where they start moving him up into the starting lineup at MLB and move Poz outside - which was his natural position, then that's a good thing in my book because it puts Crowell on one side, DiGiorgio inside, and Poz on the other and leaves us with Ellison as a capable back-up for either outside position, and we can move Poz inside should DiGiorgio go down.

It seems to me that they drafted Poz to fill the void left by Fletcher initially - so if DiGiorgio is able to do at least an adequate job, wouldn't it make sense to move your highly coveted LB back to his natural position (the one he made his name popular by playing in college)?

I really don't care where Poz plays as long as he starts- otherwise, it would be a big draft mistake by our FO. I do care about the possiblity of having DiGiorgio start because I don't think he's good enough. And I don't understand why so many people here are happy about yet another young, inexperienced starter on D.

One more thing- isn't it a little hard to tell if DiGiorgio can get up and stuff the run in drills without pads or hitting?

[mysticsoto]

what the hell do you mean "that type of GM"? ALL GM's have to play the PR game. Where's your proof that Marv ISN'T playing the PR game? Did you see DiGiorgio play yourself? I happen to know for a fact that you didn't because OTA's/minicamp weren't open to the public. So your claim that Marv's assessment of DiGiorgio isn't spin is no more valid or invalid than my assertation that it is spin.

You are the one making the claim that Marv is playing a PR game, so it is upon you to prove it - not for me to disprove your claim!!!

You are trying to pit this as a 'my word vs yours' when it isn't. No, I haven't seen DiG play. But it's not my words that you are contesting - it is Marvs - and yes, he has seen him play closeup.

Come back when you can back up your claim - otherwise it's just a bull***** theory of yours no different than a Discotrish end of the world prediction!

[OpIv37]

I agree they have a lot to prove. Let them prove it first before you even start acting like you know better. DUH!!!

WTF has TD have to do with my comparison to Polian who you admire a lot? :snicker: I never said TD didn't make mistakes in FA. YOu just proved my point, every GM makes mistakes especially in their first year .That was stupid.

You were saying that Marv made the same mistakes as Polian. I was saying that TD also made those same mistakes, so if that's your basis for comparison, you can just as easily compare Marv to TD or to Polian, so the fact that Polian made the same mistakes proves NOTHING.

[justasportsfan]

One more thing- isn't it a little hard to tell if DiGiorgio can get up and stuff the run in drills without pads or hitting?
that's why MArv said IF he continues to impress , meaning camp where there's hitting etc. DUH!!!

You just couldn't wait to whine.

[Mitchy moo]

II don't think he's good enough. And I don't understand why so many people here are happy about yet another young, inexperienced starter on D.

Coach OP, please come to the Bills camp. Who are you to judge if he is good enough? A coach?? You are beginning to sound like our junior writer.

[justasportsfan]

You were saying that Marv made the same mistakes as Polian. I was saying that TD also made those same mistakes, so if that's your basis for comparison, you can just as easily compare Marv to TD or to Polian, so the fact that Polian made the same mistakes proves NOTHING.


Haha! It proves that MArv makes the same mistakes that every GM makes that you're blasting him for . :roflmao:

[OpIv37]

You are the one making the claim that Marv is playing a PR game, so it is upon you to prove it - not for me to disprove your claim!!!

You are trying to pit this as a 'my word vs yours' when it isn't. No, I haven't seen DiG play. But it's not my words that you are contesting - it is Marvs - and yes, he has seen him play closeup.

Come back when you can back up your claim - otherwise it's just a bull***** theory of yours no different than a Discotrish end of the world prediction!

It's a bull**** theory of mine that GM's have to keep the fans interested and the players motivated so they choose their words to the media carefully?

Yeah, ok, I made that **** up. NFL GM's ALWAYS tell the media EXACTLY what's on their minds. Also, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you and the word "gullible" isn't listed on dictionary.com.

[mysticsoto]

what? This post makes no ****ing sense.

If DiGiorgio is close to starting and Poz is moving over, then Ellison is just as close to being benched as DiGiorgio is to starting.

Your stance is that Marv made his comments b'cse the gist of his comments sounds better if he doesn't say Ellison is getting benched. The whole position is ludicrous b'cse you don't start talking about being benched until you are well into TC. As usual, you are grasping at straws and unable to backup your claim on this being a spin.

When you have proof that this is a spin, maybe more people will pay attention to what you are saying. As it stands, you are just doing the usual "Op whine dance".

[OpIv37]

Haha! It proves that MArv makes the same mistakes that every GM makes that you're blasting him for . :roflmao:

so what? that means he doesn't deserve to be blasted for them? A mistake is still a mistake regardless of who else makes it. You just used the "well he did it first!" excuse.

[mysticsoto]

It's a bull**** theory of mine that GM's have to keep the fans interested and the players motivated so they choose their words to the media carefully?

Yeah, ok, I made that **** up. NFL GM's ALWAYS tell the media EXACTLY what's on their minds. Also, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you and the word "gullible" isn't listed on dictionary.com.

You continue to have no proof to back yourself up, so you dance around the edges. No proof is no proof - you don't even have a base to draw from. If it were TD, more people could be inclined to believe, as he very obviously engaged in doing PR and playing the game. Marv has not been shown to be that type of person. Dance around the edge all you like, you still have nothing to back you up!!!

[OpIv37]

You continue to have no proof to back yourself up, so you dance around the edges. No proof is no proof - you don't even have a base to draw from. If it were TD, more people could be inclined to believe, as he very obviously engaged in doing PR and playing the game. Marv has not been shown to be that type of person. Dance around the edge all you like, you still have nothing to back you up!!!

and you're still naive.

[justasportsfan]

so what? .
so what? Hang him because he's like every GM. :lol:

OP, if you are gonna attempt to make MArv look bad, at least bring something that makes him look worse than other GM's. Not something that makes him LIKE every other GM. Haha!

[Philagape]

I'm done.

:huh:

[OpIv37]

so what? Hang him because he's like every GM. :lol:

OP, if you are gonna attempt to make MArv look bad, at least bring something that makes him look worse than other GM's. Not something that makes him LIKE every other GM. Haha!

It's Marv's job to get the personnel that will help us win on the field. If we don't win, Marv made mistakes and he needs to be held accountable for those mistakes.

It's irrelevant who else makes the same mistakes.

If I screw up at my job, I have to face the consequences- I can't get out of it by saying "well John Smith at Company X made the same mistakes 2 years ago and he's a manager now!".

[Philagape]

so what? Hang him because he's like every GM. :lol:

OP, if you are gonna attempt to make MArv look bad, at least bring something that makes him look worse than other GM's. Not something that makes him LIKE every other GM. Haha!

The idea is to be better than other teams.

[Mitchy moo]

Anything to bash Marv I see. OP if we make the playoffs this season will these tirades stop?

[justasportsfan]

It's Marv's job to get the personnel that will help us win on the field. If we don't win, Marv made mistakes and he needs to be held accountable for those mistakes.

It's irrelevant who else makes the same mistakes.

If I screw up at my job, I have to face the consequences- I can't get out of it by saying "well John Smith at Company X made the same mistakes 2 years ago and he's a manager now!".

You're ready to hang Marv after 1 year. :roflmao: Show me a GM that got everythng right in 1 year. He better be the rule and not the exception to the rule :snicker:

[OpIv37]

You're ready to hang Marv after 1 year. :roflmao: Show me a GM that got everythng right in 1 year. He better be the rule and not the exception to the rule :snicker:

I NEVER said I was ready to hang Marv. YOU said I said that.

But Marv has made some moves that I don't like so I criticized those moves. Yet again, another distinction that you're mentally incapable of making.

[justasportsfan]

The idea is to be better than other teams.

I completely agree but it's not gonna happen after 1 year. OP is attempting to blast MArv for FA's that are usual band aids in a GM's first year. Davis was hired and let go by BB and the PAts. Does that make them stupid like MArv too?

[mysticsoto]

and you're still naive.

Translation: I can't backup my own claim...

[justasportsfan]

I NEVER said I was ready to hang Marv. YOU said I said that.

But Marv has made some moves that I don't like so I criticized those moves. Yet again, another distinction that you're mentally incapable of making.

OH puhlaese. BY the way you talk, you're so ready to cut his balls off. You talk like he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to DiG. Stop being a hypocrite.

[OpIv37]

OH puhlaese. BY the way you talk, you're so ready to cut his balls off. You talk like he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to DiG. Stop being a hypocrite.

I didn't say he didn't know what he was talking about wit DiGiorgio- I said he has other considerations that affect what he says and how he says it.

[The Spaz]

this thread is still going? :lol::rofl: