Atlanta Journal-Constitution: Falcons Could Release Vick This Week!

[gr8slayer]

Speaking on ESPN, the Atlanta Journal-Constituion's Steve Wyche said that the Falcons could possibly release Michael Vick this week.
There would be some nasty cap consequences, but its at least an option. Vick could also be suspended by the team or receive a leave of absence. With training camp looming, look for a decision to come down by Tuesday or Wednesday. Vick isn't likely to attend camp.

To me this would show a lot of class by Blank. I'm all for it, show the fans that you are a family first organization.

[Scumbag College]

I would be shocked if the Falcons released him before he's convicted of anything.

[mikemac2001]

O no what about the vickers in madden :(


i hope they cut him it would be funny....

[Pinkerton Security]

:bf1: Do it! show em what you're made of!

[gr8slayer]

I would be shocked if the Falcons released him before he's convicted of anything.
I wouldn't be. Blank is a no-nonsense kind of guy who is a smart business man. I think he thinks that the fans will respect him more.

I think he also understands the back-lash that is about to come. I mean hell, P.E.T.A. is already protesting outside of NFL headquarters. Can you imagine having those psychos parading at the entrance to the stadium when you're trying to take your kids out for some good, clean family fun.

I would support this move 100%

[gr8slayer]

O no what about the vickers in madden :(


i hope they cut him it would be funny....
It would be getting what he deserves.

[SquishDaFish]

I doubt it will happen. I think the Team and the NFL will give him a leave of absence with pay until its over. But heres to hoping they cut the no talent QB(should be a RB) :cheers:

[mikemac2001]

Good point about peta

protestors are so annoying and it doesnt even matter the subject...there so obnoxious

[gr8slayer]

Good point about peta

protestors are so annoying and it doesnt even matter the subject...there so obnoxious
And P.E.T.A. are flat out extremists. I could see those protests getting real ugly with them.

[Michael82]

That would be ****ing awesome! It would also help assure where Daunte Culpepper will go.

[billsburgh]

I wonder if they would be able to recoup a portion of his signing bonus as well like the fins did with Ricky Williams

[gr8slayer]

That would be ****ing awesome! It would also help assure where Daunte Culpepper will go.
They said last week that they have absolutely no interest in Culpepper at all. I have a friend who is as big a Falcon fan as I am a Bills fan and according to him the Falcons have been looking for a reason to get rid of Vick because they are apparently very high on D.J. Shockley.

[mikemac2001]

They said last week that they have absolutely no interest in Culpepper at all. I have a friend who is as big a Falcon fan as I am a Bills fan and according to him the Falcons have been looking for a reason to get rid of Vick because they are apparently very high on D.J. Shockley.


Ya shockley is mobile to which is what patrino wants in his offense

[Dr. Lecter]

I wonder if they would be able to recoup a portion of his signing bonus as well like the fins did with Ricky Williams

That would one reason not to cut him. As I understand it a team can not go after partials signing bonus's if they cut the player, they can only do so if the league suspends the player or he leaves the team.

[Michael82]

They said last week that they have absolutely no interest in Culpepper at all. I have a friend who is as big a Falcon fan as I am a Bills fan and according to him the Falcons have been looking for a reason to get rid of Vick because they are apparently very high on D.J. Shockley.
Hmmm, that's just weird! Interesting tho.....:up:

[DraftBoy]

It would be getting what he deserves.

For what exactly? You study law, and you know as well as I do, that an indictment doesnt mean anything. I think he's guilty too, but he atleast deserves his due process. Dont let you dislike for the guy blind you of what he deserves from the legal system.

[Scumbag College]

I wouldn't be. Blank is a no-nonsense kind of guy who is a smart business man. I think he thinks that the fans will respect him more.

I think he also understands the back-lash that is about to come. I mean hell, P.E.T.A. is already protesting outside of NFL headquarters. Can you imagine having those psychos parading at the entrance to the stadium when you're trying to take your kids out for some good, clean family fun.

I would support this move 100%

I'm not saying that he shouldn't be stool canned from football and thrown in jail, but the guy has been the face of the team for the last couple of years and by far their most marketable player.

I think the stance the Falcons management will take, whether it's right or wrong, will be something along the lines of "Let's wait for justice and the legal system to take it's course before we do anything about it," or something like that. Remember, PETA protesters or not, they have 60,000+ people buying tickets to their games, Michael Vick jerseys to sell, etc.

[DraftBoy]

They said last week that they have absolutely no interest in Culpepper at all. I have a friend who is as big a Falcon fan as I am a Bills fan and according to him the Falcons have been looking for a reason to get rid of Vick because they are apparently very high on D.J. Shockley.


Your friend is wrong, the Falcons like Shockley yes, but not that much, they see him as a development guy whose not near ready, hence the reason they also signed Chris Redman in the offseason to push DJ.

[ddaryl]

I wonder if they would be able to recoup a portion of his signing bonus as well like the fins did with Ricky Williams

Not if they release him.

Ricky just refused ot quit smoking mj and decided he wasn't going ot play anymore.


I think Atlanta at the very least needs to suspend Vick with pay until the court rules yay or nay.

Releasing him before he is proven guilty is an option but one I would wait for a verdict on.

[gr8slayer]

For what exactly? You study law, and you know as well as I do, that an indictment doesnt mean anything. I think he's guilty too, but he atleast deserves his due process. Dont let you dislike for the guy blind you of what he deserves from the legal system.
In Texas if it happens on your property you are responsible.

[DraftBoy]

In Texas if it happens on your property you are responsible.


Thank god then that he doesnt live in Texas, but is being prosecuted by the US Government (and Va too but the devil is the details). So Texas archaic laws dont apply.

[Michael82]

I'm not saying that he shouldn't be stool canned from football and thrown in jail, but the guy has been the face of the team for the last couple of years and by far their most marketable player.

I think the stance the Falcons management will take, whether it's right or wrong, will be something along the lines of "Let's wait for justice and the legal system to take it's course before we do anything about it," or something like that. Remember, PETA protesters or not, they have 60,000+ people buying tickets to their games, Michael Vick jerseys to sell, etc.
Michael Vick jerseys to sell??!? :rofl:


I don't see that happening anymore.

[Mitchy moo]

For what exactly? You study law, and you know as well as I do, that an indictment doesnt mean anything. I think he's guilty too, but he atleast deserves his due process. Dont let you dislike for the guy blind you of what he deserves from the legal system.

What did he apologize to the owner of the falcons for?? If you do something wrong, you apologize. If you did nothing wrong, you say hey I did nothing wrong.

[gr8slayer]

Thank god then that he doesnt live in Texas, but is being prosecuted by the US Government (and Va too but the devil is the details). So Texas archaic laws dont apply.
Lucky for him, he would be toast in Texas and rightfully so.

[DraftBoy]

Lucky for him, he would be toast in Texas and rightfully so.


Again for what?

[Michael82]

The fact that the piece of **** hasn't even come out and said that he is innocent and did nothing wrong, proves to me that he is guilty as sin. I hope the bastard goes to jail and is kicked out of the league for the **** he did. :ill:

[DraftBoy]

What did he apologize to the owner of the falcons for?? If you do something wrong, you apologize. If you did nothing wrong, you say hey I did nothing wrong.


Hmm well lets play a situation game here;

Lets say you work and accused of a high profile crime that the media springs on and follows you around hounds you in and out of work, and just pastes you and your business in a bad light. Do you not think you should at least apologize to your boss for the negative press, or should you just go to him say look Im innocent, tough luck about the bad press, alright Im going to lunch? I mean come on. And Ive already clearly stated that I think he's guilty but Im not going to blindly judge him and I want to see him get his due process.

[gr8slayer]

Again for what?
I don't claim to be an expert but I think it's pretty obvious he was involved and knew what was going on on HIS PROPERTY. Guilty by association, gambling, cruelty to animals.

[gr8slayer]

The fact that the piece of **** hasn't even come out and said that he is innocent and did nothing wrong, proves to me that he is guilty as sin. I hope the bastard goes to jail and is kicked out of the league for the **** he did. :ill:
Exactly, if he is innocent why wouldn't he come out and say so? It would at least buy him some time in the eyes of the public.

[DraftBoy]

The fact that the piece of **** hasn't even come out and said that he is innocent and did nothing wrong, proves to me that he is guilty as sin. I hope the bastard goes to jail and is kicked out of the league for the **** he did. :ill:

Again Mikey what did he do, not what was he alleged to do? I mean how many times do I need to repeat myself, what happened to innocent until proven guilty. And what the is this crap that he didnt even come out and proclaim his innocence, so he's guilty? I mean seriously OJ said he was innocent you believe him?

[Michael82]

Hmm well lets play a situation game here;

Lets say you work and accused of a high profile crime that the media springs on and follows you around hounds you in and out of work, and just pastes you and your business in a bad light. Do you not think you should at least apologize to your boss for the negative press, or should you just go to him say look Im innocent, tough luck about the bad press, alright Im going to lunch? I mean come on. And Ive already clearly stated that I think he's guilty but Im not going to blindly judge him and I want to see him get his due process.
with him being filthy rich...do you really think he'll get his due process? No way! He'll find some way to skate on these charges! Even though he's guilty as ever. :ill: Did OJ get his due process? No. He's not in jail. So...the system helped a guy out who is rich and ****s over the little guys. :ill:

[Michael82]

I don't claim to be an expert but I think it's pretty obvious he was involved and knew what was going on on HIS PROPERTY. Guilty by association, gambling, cruelty to animals.
Exactly! :bf1:

[DraftBoy]

I don't claim to be an expert but I think it's pretty obvious he was involved and knew what was going on on HIS PROPERTY. Guilty by association, gambling, cruelty to animals.


All you doing is listing his accusations, which he likely is guilty of, however you have no evidence (bc it hasnt been made public yet) by which to assume his guilt. However you like the press, are jumping to conclusions, like in the Duke case and wanting to hang the guy out to dry, before the case even sees a judge.

[DraftBoy]

with him being filthy rich...do you really think he'll get his due process? No way! He'll find some way to skate on these charges! Even though he's guilty as ever. :ill: Did OJ get his due process? No. He's not in jail. So...the system helped a guy out who is rich and ****s over the little guys. :ill:

Mikey do you know what due process is?

[gr8slayer]

All you doing is listing his accusations, which he likely is guilty of, however you have no evidence (bc it hasnt been made public yet) by which to assume his guilt. However you like the press, are jumping to conclusions, like in the Duke case and wanting to hang the guy out to dry, before the case even sees a judge.
Unlike Vick the guys in the Duke case came out and said point blank "we are innocent of the charges." That's all I want from Vick, until he at least says that he is guilty of all charges in my mind.

[billsburgh]

That would one reason not to cut him. As I understand it a team can not go after partials signing bonus's if they cut the player, they can only do so if the league suspends the player or he leaves the team.
yeah, that makes sense. I guess I should have thought about that some more. if that were the case, teams would go after players all the time who were busts after getting big conracts. (Mike Williams).

[Michael82]

Mikey do you know what due process is?
i worded it wrong. I should have said that....

"Did OJ get a fair trial? No, he's not in jail. He skated because he was a rich man who could hire a damn good lawyer. I could see the same thing happening to Vick." :ill:

[Michael82]

Unlike Vick the guys in the Duke case came out and said point blank "we are innocent of the charges." That's all I want from Vick, until he at least says that he is guilty of all charges in my mind.
:bf1:

[DraftBoy]

Unlike Vick the guys in the Duke case came out and said point blank "we are innocent of the charges." That's all I want from Vick, until he at least says that he is guilty of all charges in my mind.


So did OJ, and Robert Blake, and a million other people who have turned out to be guilty. Your grasping at straws and you know it.

[Mitchy moo]

All you doing is listing his accusations, which he likely is guilty of, however you have no evidence (bc it hasnt been made public yet) by which to assume his guilt. However you like the press, are jumping to conclusions, like in the Duke case and wanting to hang the guy out to dry, before the case even sees a judge.

95% is the federal conviction rate when charged, which means there is a great chance they have evidence he did wrong. Your right about due process but having a puppy mill on property you own makes you an accomplice. If someone is dealing drugs out of a house they own, they take the house away.

[gr8slayer]

So did OJ, and Robert Blake, and a million other people who have turned out to be guilty. Your grasping at straws and you know it.
Your sticking up for the same legal system that just let a guy who raped a seven year old girl go because they "couldn't find a translator." Just because I study the law doesn't mean I agree with it or don't have my own opinion.

[DraftBoy]

95% is the federal conviction rate when charged, which means there is a great chance they have evidence he did wrong. Your right about due process but having a puppy mill on property you own makes you an accomplice. If someone is dealing drugs out of a house they own, they take the house away.

A Puppy Mill? Talk about buying the media rhetoric word for word, its called a kennel not a puppy mill. :rofl:

[gr8slayer]

A Puppy Mill? Talk about buying the media rhetoric word for word, its called a kennel not a puppy mill. :rofl:
:snicker:

[JJamezz]

This isn't about justice and due process - we're talking about him losing his job, not getting convicted.. If the Falcons, who incidentally, probably have pretty good insight into the kind of person Vick is - much moreso than any fans or media, decide to fire him, then so be it..

It's not enough to have a bunch of dog carcasses buried on your property?? The argument that he may not have known about it is all well and good - in the courtroom - but as a 'professional' and the face of an NFL organization, if he didn't know about it, then he damn well SHOULD have.

[gr8slayer]

This isn't about justice and due process - we're talking about him losing his job, not getting convicted.. If the Falcons, who incidentally, probably have pretty good insight into the kind of person Vick is - much moreso than any fans or media, decide to fire him, then so be it..

It's not enough to have a bunch of dog carcasses buried on your property?? The argument that he may not have known about it is all well and good - in the courtroom - but as a 'professional', if he didn't know about it, then he damn well SHOULD have.
Good posting, now where the hell is the POTY video ass bilonker.

[Michael82]

This isn't about justice and due process - we're talking about him losing his job, not getting convicted.. If the Falcons, who incidentally, probably have pretty good insight into the kind of person Vick is - much moreso than any fans or media, decide to fire him, then so be it..

It's not enough to have a bunch of dog carcasses buried on your property?? The argument that he may not have known about it is all well and good - in the courtroom - but as a 'professional' and the face of an NFL organization, if he didn't know about it, then he damn well SHOULD have.
Excellent post! :bf1:

[Ebenezer]

For what exactly? You study law, and you know as well as I do, that an indictment doesnt mean anything. I think he's guilty too, but he atleast deserves his due process. Dont let you dislike for the guy blind you of what he deserves from the legal system.
and that is why he will neither get suspended nor released.

he was never worth $10 mil let alone $100 mil but if the Falcons decide to release them then they do...

[DraftBoy]

Your sticking up for the same legal system that just let a guy who raped a seven year old girl go because they "couldn't find a translator." Just because I study the law doesn't mean I agree with it or don't have my own opinion.

Same legal system that didnt convict the Duke kids who were already guilty in the court of public opinion and wanted to see the kids thrown in jail. Your damn right Im supporting our legal system, does it have its flaws? Yes, but that doesnt mean its completely incompetent.

[DraftBoy]

Same legal system that didnt convict the Duke kids who were already guilty in the court of public opinion and wanted to see the kids thrown in jail. Your damn right Im supporting our legal system, does it have its flaws? Yes, but that doesnt mean its completely incompetent.


Also the couldnt find a translator part is more stupidity by the DA's office than it is a fault of our own legal system.

[gr8slayer]

Same legal system that didnt convict the Duke kids who were already guilty in the court of public opinion and wanted to see the kids thrown in jail. Your damn right Im supporting our legal system, does it have its flaws? Yes, but that doesnt mean its completely incompetent.
I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I have my feet pretty well planted on my opinion of Mike Vick and our legal system right now.

[DraftBoy]

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I have my feet pretty well planted on my opinion of Mike Vick and our legal system right now.


planted on the basis of what, is all Im asking

[gr8slayer]

planted on the basis of what, is all Im asking
Based on the fact that he has yet to come out and say "I am, or I am not guilty of the charges." Why would he call his boss (Blank) and say "I'm sorry?" Just based on what I've read the evidence is there to convict him of the crime. I also think that he isn't bigger than the NFL and his actions are tainting the image of the game. Legal system or not it's not your right to get to play in the NFL, if an owner feels that one of his players are hurting this or his franchises image he has every RIGHT to dismiss that player.

[Scumbag College]

It sounds like Vick has already been convicted in the court of public opinion. Does it look like he had something to do with it? I think we can all agree that it looks that way from what we know.

I think if this was a backup tackle, he'd have been gone as soon as the story came out.

[gr8slayer]

It sounds like Vick has already been convicted in the court of public opinion. Does it look like he had something to do with it? I think we can all agree that it looks that way from what we know.

I think if this was a backup tackle, he'd have been gone as soon as the story came out.
Agreed, I also think that if this were people, not animals people would be a little less angry. It's sad but I think that's how our society is today.

[Michael82]

I think if this was a backup tackle, he'd have been gone as soon as the story came out.
I totally agree! and that right there is why Roger Goodell is a ****ing hypocrit and the owners are too! Hell...look at the Dolphins! They cut that Evans guy after one problem. They didn't do the same thing to Jerry Porter. :shakeno:

[DraftBoy]

Based on the fact that he has yet to come out and say "I am, or I am not guilty of the charges." Why would he call his boss (Blank) and say "I'm sorry?" Just based on what I've read the evidence is there to convict him of the crime. I also think that he isn't bigger than the NFL and his actions are tainting the image of the game. Legal system or not it's not your right to get to play in the NFL, if an owner feels that one of his players are hurting this or his franchises image he has every RIGHT to dismiss that player.


So you have no evidence and your entire opinion is based on the fact that he A) Hasnt proclaimed his innocence, even though we know many guilty people in the past have proclaimed this and B) he apologized to Blank for casting a negative light on the Falcons....hmm...thats not alot at all.

[Scumbag College]

Unfortunately, because he's a star in the league, he's going to get every benefit of the doubt and break before he gets suspended. Look at all the baloney Pacman was up to before he got suspended. And he was arrested how many times? And he's not nearly as marketable as Vick.

I really have to believe that Blank and the NFL are just going to wait and see what happens with the trial before they suspend or release one of the most visible players in the league. The story coming out that he might be released is all just lip service i think at this point, just to appease everyone who is outraged.

[Meathead]

you guys totally dont get the differentiation between opinion of guilt and due process

youre the kind of lunatic vigilantes that a hunnerd years ago would be stringing up a guy without even bothering to give him a trial

how can you possibly not see how wrong and dangerous that is. amazing

[Dr. Lecter]

I totally agree! and that right there is why Roger Goodell is a ****ing hypocrit and the owners are too! Hell...look at the Dolphins! They cut that Evans guy after one problem. They didn't do the same thing to Jerry Porter. :shakeno:

This one incident with him Mikey.

You need to give Goodell time to make his decision.

And the Falcons can't cut him right away with the cap ramifications. IF he gets suspended they can get money back.

There is no reason to make decision today when it is the offseason.

[njsue]

To me this would show a lot of class by Blank. I'm all for it, show the fans that you are a family first organization.

The Jim Mora incident was embarrassing for The Atlanta Falcons organization. Good for Arthur Blank for rectifying his team's image.

[Saratoga Slim]

I don't claim to be an expert but I think it's pretty obvious he was involved and knew what was going on on HIS PROPERTY. Guilty by association, gambling, cruelty to animals.

I think you're more or less right. I'm a lawyer, and while I don't do employment law and don't know all that much about the CBA player protections etc, I have the following general observations on this situation, for whatever it's worth:

1. due process only works to protect individuals from abuses by the federal or state governments. With a few extremely narrow exceptions, private companies are not required to observe due process requirements, and the NFL has no legal obligation to keep one of its employees around other than whatever particular devices are built into the CBA or a player's individual contract. They may feel some general responsibility to withhold action until they have reviewed all the facts available, but have little legal obligation to do so. This should be obvious from the Pacman suspension.

2. While Vick will hire very good attorneys and possibly either work out a favorable plea or be acquitted altogether, Goodell and Arthur Blank are not held to the same level of proof (guilt beyond reasonable doubt) that a criminal court is in reaching a conviction.

If Goodell and/or Arthur Blank feel there is enough evidence that this disgusting activity occurred on Vick's property, they may feel that his ownership of the property and lack of oversight gives the league a big enough of a black eye to warrant cutting ties with Vick EVEN IF he is fully acquitted of actually participating in the gruesome acts detailed in the indictment. Goodell/Blank's decision is primarily about what's best for the league, not what's fair for Vick, and if they decide the league/team is better off without the media attention even if it turns out he's acquitted of participating in the dog fighting, that's their business decision.

That's why I think that the burden is, fairly or unfairly, 100% on Vick to show to both the court and the public there's nothing to these charges, and that he is utterly and completely a victim of prosecutorial and media overzealousness. Because if he's acquitted or pleas out based on good lawyering and not complete innocence, the public is never going to completely forgive him, and the shadow on the Falcons and the NFL will remain as long as he plays.

On the facts set forth in the federal indictment, which was carefully assembled by the FBI and its attorneys, not a shoddy, small-town prosecutor, I don't see any way that he proves his innocence to the satisfaction of the public. I think that there's at least a moderate chance Michael Vick doesn't play football again, and I would be shocked if he played at all this year.

[njsue]

Unfortunately, because he's a star in the league, he's going to get every benefit of the doubt and break before he gets suspended. Look at all the baloney Pacman was up to before he got suspended. And he was arrested how many times? And he's not nearly as marketable as Vick.

I really have to believe that Blank and the NFL are just going to wait and see what happens with the trial before they suspend or release one of the most visible players in the league. The story coming out that he might be released is all just lip service i think at this point, just to appease everyone who is outraged.

Vick is losing his prime $$$ sponsers.

[Stewie]

For what exactly? You study law, and you know as well as I do, that an indictment doesnt mean anything.

Wrong. Being indicted means he engaged in conduct detrimental to the team, as evidenced by the bad press this situation has received. Under terms of the new CBA, they're well within their rights to cut him.

[DraftBoy]

Wrong. Being indicted means he engaged in conduct detrimental to the team, as evidenced by the bad press this situation has received. Under terms of the new CBA, they're well within their rights to cut him.


Well I agree he is clearly in violation of the new CBA conduct policy, however such policy was only rewritten under the idea of trying to more sternly punish repeat offenders not first timed accused people. Also I wasnt referring to the CBA in my post but rather the USC that he is being accused of violating.

[User Manuel]

I think you're more or less right. I'm a lawyer, and while I don't do employment law and don't know all that much about the CBA player protections etc, I have the following general observations on this situation, for whatever it's worth:

1. due process only works to protect individuals from abuses by the federal or state governments. With a few extremely narrow exceptions, private companies are not required to observe due process requirements, and the NFL has no legal obligation to keep one of its employees around other than whatever particular devices are built into the CBA or a player's individual contract. They may feel some general responsibility to withhold action until they have reviewed all the facts available, but have little legal obligation to do so. This should be obvious from the Pacman suspension.

2. While Vick will hire very good attorneys and possibly either work out a favorable plea or be acquitted altogether, Goodell and Arthur Blank are not held to the same level of proof (guilt beyond reasonable doubt) that a criminal court is in reaching a conviction.

If Goodell and/or Arthur Blank feel there is enough evidence that this disgusting activity occurred on Vick's property, they may feel that his ownership of the property and lack of oversight gives the league a big enough of a black eye to warrant cutting ties with Vick EVEN IF he is fully acquitted of actually participating in the gruesome acts detailed in the indictment. Goodell/Blank's decision is primarily about what's best for the league, not what's fair for Vick, and if they decide the league/team is better off without the media attention even if it turns out he's acquitted of participating in the dog fighting, that's their business decision.

That's why I think that the burden is, fairly or unfairly, 100% on Vick to show to both the court and the public there's nothing to these charges, and that he is utterly and completely a victim of prosecutorial and media overzealousness. Because if he's acquitted or pleas out based on good lawyering and not complete innocence, the public is never going to completely forgive him, and the shadow on the Falcons and the NFL will remain as long as he plays.

On the facts set forth in the federal indictment, which was carefully assembled by the FBI and its attorneys, not a shoddy, small-town prosecutor, I don't see any way that he proves his innocence to the satisfaction of the public. I think that there's at least a moderate chance Michael Vick doesn't play football again, and I would be shocked if he played at all this year.

What I believe would happen is that if Vick was cut is that the NFL would then immediately suspend him indefinately pending the outcome of the criminal trial. He will file a grievance which I imagine the NFL will deny and then it would go to an arbitrator. I expect the Arbitrator to rule against Vick for most of the reasons Saratoga states above. I believe the arbitrator would find the NFL correct in suspending Vick indefinately as they have a reasonable belief that he has commited a crime for which a term of inprisonment is likely. The burden of proof would be a perponderance of the evidence (51%) that Vick did what he is accused of (the indictment usually is all they need for proof). They also can prove nexus as the obvious black eye he has given the NFL and the integrity issues raised by his denial of involvement in the meeting with Goodell.

I assume Vick would then file an appeal in Federal Court claiming he was being denied his constitutional property rights. Effectively he will claim the NFL and the arbitrator are denying him access to his property (i.e. his job). I doubt this holds water.

If he gets acquitted or charges are dropped then the NFL might be stuck with a problem. Until this is resolved, unless there is something in the contract, the indictment most likely means he is at Goodells mercy

Frankly, I think he has a 50/50 shot at going to jail. I will be really intersted to see who his attorney is for the trial.

[DraftBoy]

you guys totally dont get the differentiation between opinion of guilt and due process

youre the kind of lunatic vigilantes that a hunnerd years ago would be stringing up a guy without even bothering to give him a trial

how can you possibly not see how wrong and dangerous that is. amazing


Thank you for being another sane voice in this matter. The vigilante attitude here is not only scary for this countries safety, but also frightful when thinking about the future.

[Mitchy moo]

Thank you for being another sane voice in this matter. The vigilante attitude here is not only scary for this countries safety, but also frightful when thinking about the future.

I agree with you about a right to due process but him being suspended by the league has to do with these things that happened for many years now. He has owned this property for many years and this type of activity has occured on it multiple times. If he built a gas chamber on there and sent many animals to their death and it was even just witnessed by Vick himself with multiple people watching, does the league really need anymore reason to suspend him? He built this to have dogs fight eachother for his pleasure, it's sick.

How many years or how many times does an illegal activity (felony related even) your involved in some way need to happen until your really involved?? That's the real question here and I think it's answered. Vick put up a fence to hide something on his property, been doing it for years on there and it's barbaric. I pretty much think the ownership and length of time there dooms him to those who we're their poor choices and actions.

[Saratoga Slim]

Thank you for being another sane voice in this matter. The vigilante attitude here is not only scary for this countries safety, but also frightful when thinking about the future.

nobody's arguing that he should get anything less than due process in the criminal justice system, and judging by the size of his bank account and the quality of legal representation he'll be able to afford to hire, he's going to get every legal protection that our laws afford to anyone charged with a crime. I fully agree that the guy shouldn't be locked up or even fined unless it is clear beyond a reasonable doubt that he has violated the law.

that said, how the company he works for decides to handle his continued employment while he's charged with a revolting crime and is the subject of a media frenzy is a completely different matter. while I agree that it would be ideal if the league and team waited to see what happens in court before taking action, that may not be a practical approach for the business interests of the league and the team's interest in winning. I don't see how it's scary for the country's future for a private company to cut loose or even just temporarily suspend an individual who's gotten himself indicted in a federal investigation and, in the judgment of the company's leaders, is costing the company money.

[PECKERWOOD]

For what exactly? You study law, and you know as well as I do, that an indictment doesnt mean anything. I think he's guilty too, but he atleast deserves his due process. Dont let you dislike for the guy blind you of what he deserves from the legal system.

Just because he wasn't convicted doesn't mean that he can't be cut or suspended. Look at Pacman Jones. The bottom line is, you have to do WHATEVER is in the best interests of your business.

[DraftBoy]

I have no issue whatsoever with him being suspended or leave of absence till the matter is resolved, never said I had an issue with such a move.

[DraftBoy]

Just because he wasn't convicted doesn't mean that he can't be cut or suspended. Look at Pacman Jones. The bottom line is, you have to do WHATEVER is in the best interests of your business.


Oh yea he is still subject to that, however all my comments have been in reference to the number of posters who want to be Mike Vick's judge, jury, and executioner.

[gr8slayer]

I have no issue whatsoever with him being suspended or leave of absence till the matter is resolved, never said I had an issue with such a move.
Then what would be the problem with the Falcons getting rid of him all together?

Duke canceled their season and fired their coach before the players had been found guilty in a court of law.

[RedEyE]

Any shrewd respectable business man could hardly be faulted in an attempt to trade Vick first. With that being said, there would be some serious legal ramifications if they cut Vick proir to an actual conviction. The AJC might be Atlanta's only paper, but when it comes to sports it's about one step up past PFT.

[DraftBoy]

Then what would be the problem with the Falcons getting rid of him all together?

Duke canceled their season and fired their coach before the players had been found guilty in a court of law.


I have no problem with that

[casdhf]

Once Vick is convicted, he should hang.

The system is beyond repair.

Burn, Michael. Burn.

[Mitchy moo]

Once Vick is convicted, he should hang.



Spoken like a true southerner.

[Philagape]

From CBS Sportsline fantasy site:

News: According to several reports, including Peter King of Sports Illustrated, the Falcons are expected to hand down a disciplinary measure on Tuesday for Michael Vick's federal indictment on dogfighting charges. Although there's no definitive word, several pundits suggest that Vick will be put on a leave of absence for an undetermined amount of time, possibly with a suspension mixed in.
Analysis: Vick has been served with a federal indictment, which means that the feds have built a very strong case against him (nearly all of the federal cases result in either a guilty verdict or a plea bargain).

[Mitchy moo]

From CBS Sportsline fantasy site:

News: According to several reports, including Peter King of Sports Illustrated, the Falcons are expected to hand down a disciplinary measure on Tuesday for Michael Vick's federal indictment on dogfighting charges. Although there's no definitive word, several pundits suggest that Vick will be put on a leave of absence for an undetermined amount of time, possibly with a suspension mixed in.
Analysis: Vick has been served with a federal indictment, which means that the feds have built a very strong case against him (nearly all of the federal cases result in either a guilty verdict or a plea bargain).

Vick needs to go away for a while and let this quiet down. He's been playing with fire for years and now he's going to get burned.

I personally think that they need to find a way to fine him everything he is worth. It can be given to humane shelters all throughout GA and southern states to help protect animals. That would be about the only justice that can be done on the animals behalf.

[Mudflap1]

So did OJ, and Robert Blake, and a million other people who have turned out to be guilty. Your grasping at straws and you know it.

I haven't read all of these pages, but here is my take, closet-Vick-fan:

1. O.J., Robert Blake, Phil Spector, Duke lax players, etc. weren't INDICTED by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. That's a big difference than being prosecuted by the local D.A. who may or may not be trying to make a spectacle for his own reputation.

2. When the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT indicts someone, they very, very rarely lose, and they never indict someone on a whim.

3. Vick never did say this was completey baseless. If I was innocent and was such a high-profile guy, I'd certainly be telling everyone that.

4. Vick is responsible (I'm not a lawyer) on some level for at least having all of this stuff go on at his property. That alone we know he's guilty of.

5. Arthur Blank can cut Vick no matter what. He can cut him if he doesn't like him, he can cut him if he thinks he's guilty and doesn't want to wait for this spectacle to drag out, and he can cut him because he doesn't think he's the answer at quarterback.

It's Blank's decision, he's paying the bills, and frankly, I'd respect a lot him for it. Is it too early to say Vick is 100% guilty of openly participating in this dog fighting caper? Yes. Is it too early to say Vick is a 100% douche bag, bad example of a role model, bull****ter, hangs out with the wrong people, repeatedly is getting bad publicity for bad behavior, and is an overrated quarterback all at the same time? No, absolutely not. Vick (and his brother) have been notoriously mischeviously and this is just the latest (and worst so far) in a line of bad publicity and bad brush ins.

I hope Vick burns.

Jon

[DraftBoy]

I haven't read all of these pages, but here is my take, closet-Vick-fan:

1. O.J., Robert Blake, Phil Spector, Duke lax players, etc. weren't INDICTED by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. That's a big difference than being prosecuted by the local D.A. who may or may not be trying to make a spectacle for his own reputation.

2. When the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT indicts someone, they very, very rarely lose, and they never indict someone on a whim.

3. Vick never did say this was completey baseless. If I was innocent and was such a high-profile guy, I'd certainly be telling everyone that.

4. Vick is responsible (I'm not a lawyer) on some level for at least having all of this stuff go on at his property. That alone we know he's guilty of.

5. Arthur Blank can cut Vick no matter what. He can cut him if he doesn't like him, he can cut him if he thinks he's guilty and doesn't want to wait for this spectacle to drag out, and he can cut him because he doesn't think he's the answer at quarterback.

It's Blank's decision, he's paying the bills, and frankly, I'd respect a lot him for it. Is it too late to say Vick is 100% guilty of openly participating in this dog fighting caper? Yes. Is it too late to say Vick is a 100% douche bag, bad example of a role model, bull****ter, hangs out with the wrong people, repeatedly is getting bad publicity for bad behavior, and is an overrated quarterback all at the same time? No, absolutely not. Vick (and his brother) have been notoriously mischeviously and this is just the latest (and worst so far) in a line of bad publicity and bad brush ins.

I hope Vick burns.

Jon


A very well thought out post and Ive said numerous times in this thread I think he is responsible, however Im not going to sit here and make snap judgments on him without knowing any of the evidence or giving him his day in court.

[Saratoga Slim]

I haven't read all of these pages, but here is my take, closet-Vick-fan:

1. O.J., Robert Blake, Phil Spector, Duke lax players, etc. weren't INDICTED by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. That's a big difference than being prosecuted by the local D.A. who may or may not be trying to make a spectacle for his own reputation.

2. When the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT indicts someone, they very, very rarely lose, and they never indict someone on a whim.

3. Vick never did say this was completey baseless. If I was innocent and was such a high-profile guy, I'd certainly be telling everyone that.

4. Vick is responsible (I'm not a lawyer) on some level for at least having all of this stuff go on at his property. That alone we know he's guilty of.

5. Arthur Blank can cut Vick no matter what. He can cut him if he doesn't like him, he can cut him if he thinks he's guilty and doesn't want to wait for this spectacle to drag out, and he can cut him because he doesn't think he's the answer at quarterback.

It's Blank's decision, he's paying the bills, and frankly, I'd respect a lot him for it. Is it too early to say Vick is 100% guilty of openly participating in this dog fighting caper? Yes. Is it too early to say Vick is a 100% douche bag, bad example of a role model, bull****ter, hangs out with the wrong people, repeatedly is getting bad publicity for bad behavior, and is an overrated quarterback all at the same time? No, absolutely not. Vick (and his brother) have been notoriously mischeviously and this is just the latest (and worst so far) in a line of bad publicity and bad brush ins.

I hope Vick burns.

Jon

good post Jon

[DaBillzAhDaShiznit]

If there is a threat to cut Vick being floated in Atlanta by Blank's people, it is for one purpose I believe. To get Vick to open up to taking a leave of absence with pay. To this point, Vick is adamant that he wants to play this year. It would be a public relations nightmare at this point to let him play at all this season, be it for Atlanta, or any other team. The leave of absence is the only sane way to handle this situation, as it protects all parties involved. Vick is paid, and not penalized greatly---innocent until proven guilty still applies--like it or not. The Falcons retain his rights should he be aquitted. The league keeps both the players association and animal rights groups at bay for now, and can deflect fan criticism until the frenzy dies down a bit. In 9 months, hopefully everything will be resolved, or at least close to it. All parties involved can reasses at that point.

[Lexwhat]

Based on the fact that he has yet to come out and say "I am, or I am not guilty of the charges." Why would he call his boss (Blank) and say "I'm sorry?" Just based on what I've read the evidence is there to convict him of the crime. I also think that he isn't bigger than the NFL and his actions are tainting the image of the game. Legal system or not it's not your right to get to play in the NFL, if an owner feels that one of his players are hurting this or his franchises image he has every RIGHT to dismiss that player.


First of all, let me say that I also think Vick IS guilty...but who cares what I think...

Secondly...I don't know what you mean by saying that he hasen't come out and said anything. Previous to the indictment Vick DID SAY he was NOT guilty. Take a look if you want:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2851640

...Even though he said he was not involved, I think his "not guilty" public comments are IRRELEVANT to begin with.


As far as commenting after the indictment, get real. Why the hell would he make ANY comments at all?? Not to offend you, but I am surprised you are studying to be a lawyer, and think that it makes sense for him to speak publicly. It is in his best interest to keep quiet and let his lawyers handle all questions.


As for the NFL office: "Michael Vick's guilt has not yet been proven, and we believe that all concerned should allow the legal process to determine the facts."

[Lexwhat]

I have no issue whatsoever with him being suspended or leave of absence till the matter is resolved, never said I had an issue with such a move.

I completely agree...

[casdhf]

A very well thought out post and Ive said numerous times in this thread I think he is responsible, however Im not going to sit here and make snap judgments on him without knowing any of the evidence or giving him his day in court. Since you're such a constitution buff, you should respect everyone's freedom of speech. If people want to throw stones, they're allowed.

[Meathead]

people always have the right to be morons

[Gunzlingr]

people always have the right to be morons

Yeah, we let you post here, don't we? ;)

[Ingtar33]

no way they cut him

[Generalissimus Gibby]

I wonder if they would be able to recoup a portion of his signing bonus as well like the fins did with Ricky Williams

I should hope not, lets face it Ricky only ****ed himself and his team over when he took off a year to live inside a bong. No innocent people suffered from loss of life or livelyhood. Vick tortured and killed animals and should get absolutely nothing.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I should hope not, lets face it Ricky only ****ed himself and his team over when he took off a year to live inside a bong. No innocent people suffered from loss of life or livelyhood. Vick tortured and killed animals and should get absolutely nothing.
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?