Forked Thread: I can't believe it hasn't been suggested yet...

[Dr. Lecter]

Forked from: I can't believe it hasn't been suggested yet...

We've already got an overpaid, underperforming DE in Chris Kelsay. There's no need.

Seriously, though, there are rumors that Warren Sapp will be a cap casualty. If we're going to overpay an aging vet- I'd prefer it was him. I can't stand the guy but we need DT help so bad that I'd be willing to sacrifice for a short term deal.

Small tidbit on Kelsay I got from one of my FFL magazines:

he was 16th in the NFL for tackles by a D-Lineman last year. All while splitting time with Denney.

Maybe he is not the POS some think he is.

[OpIv37]

Re: Forked Thread: I can't believe it hasn't been suggested yet...

He also has less overall sacks than Denney and averages less sacks per year. That's not exactly encouraging for a D that depends on pressure from the front 4. And it doesn't make him worth the insane contract he got.

[Dr. Lecter]

Re: Forked Thread: I can't believe it hasn't been suggested yet...

He also has less overall sacks than Denney and averages less sacks per year. That's not exactly encouraging for a D that depends on pressure from the front 4. And it doesn't make him worth the insane contract he got.

Unless you have a line of 4 All-pros, guys tend to be better at either run defense or pass rushing. Kelsay is the better run guy and Denney the better pass rusher. Denney played more on 3rd down and the such, so the stats are even farther skewed.

You can't ***** the line does not stop the run and also ***** when they keep a decent run stopper. And the contract was NOT insane in today's market.

[OpIv37]

Re: Forked Thread: I can't believe it hasn't been suggested yet...

Unless you have a line of 4 All-pros, guys tend to be better at either run defense or pass rushing. Kelsay is the better run guy and Denney the better pass rusher. Denney played more on 3rd down and the such, so the stats are even farther skewed.

You can't ***** the line does not stop the run and also ***** when they keep a decent run stopper. And the contract was NOT insane in today's market.

Making a lot of tackles doesn't prove he's a decent run stopper. How many of those tackles came London Fletcher style (after a 4 yard gain)?

For Kelsay's performance level, it's insane.

[Dr. Lecter]

Re: Forked Thread: I can't believe it hasn't been suggested yet...

Making a lot of tackles doesn't prove he's a decent run stopper. How many of those tackles came London Fletcher style (after a 4 yard gain)?

For Kelsay's performance level, it's insane.

Considering he is a D-lineman, probably not as many as you think.

[Jan Reimers]

Re: Forked Thread: I can't believe it hasn't been suggested yet...

Kelsay is a good player, a hard worker and a leader. Those that continually ***** about him will never be happy unless we have an All-Pro at every position.

[OpIv37]

Re: Forked Thread: I can't believe it hasn't been suggested yet...

Kelsay is a good player, a hard worker and a leader. Those that continually ***** about him will never be happy unless we have an All-Pro at every position.

not all pro's. Just guys whose play justifies the money they make. We don't have too many of those.

Kelsay gets paid like an all pro, therefore he should play like one. But he doesn't.

[Mitchy moo]

Re: Forked Thread: I can't believe it hasn't been suggested yet...

not all pro's. Just guys whose play justifies the money they make. We don't have too many of those.

Kelsay gets paid like an all pro, therefore he should play like one. But he doesn't.

They all make multi-millions OP, what's the difference. Ultimately we aren't the one's paying them.

[OpIv37]

Re: Forked Thread: I can't believe it hasn't been suggested yet...

They all make multi-millions OP, what's the difference. Ultimately we aren't the one's paying them.

wow, I don't even know where to begin with what's wrong with this logic.

First of all, someone's pay needs to justify the work they do- it doesn't matter if they're a janitor at Wal-mart or a CEO or a pro athlete. The level of compensation is set based on the amount and quality of work they provide. If the work isn't up to standards, the pay shouldn't be either.

Second, the NFL has this thing you may have heard of called the salary cap. If we can get someone to equal Kelsay's production for less money (and I think we could), then that's MORE money we have to beef up other positions.

[madness]

Re: Forked Thread: I can't believe it hasn't been suggested yet...

Chris Kelsay - 6' 4, 261 lb, Starting LDE

Kelsay is a white, high motor, blue collar, 2nd round draft pick that had avg numbers while playing in his first four years. After the new CBA Kelsay signs a 4 yr 23 million dollar contract w/ $14 million guarenteed.

??? - 6' 4, 270 lb Starting LDE

He is a white, high motor, blue collar, 5th round pick that plays for another team in this league. After having avg. numbers in his first four, his team signs him to a 4 yr 21 million dollar contract w/ $12 million guarenteed.

...Aaron Kampman responded with a 15 1/2 sack season.


Why are we so quick to close the book on Kelsay again?

[Wys Guy]

Re: Forked Thread: I can't believe it hasn't been suggested yet...

Forked from: I can't believe it hasn't been suggested yet...



Small tidbit on Kelsay I got from one of my FFL magazines:

he was 16th in the NFL for tackles by a D-Lineman last year. All while splitting time with Denney.

Maybe he is not the POS some think he is.

Good point. Unfortunately for Kelsay he loads up on stats vs. the worst teams/Offenses on the schedule and then disappears in big games. The lone exception is that he has a couple of sacks on Brady in what, four seasons. We can see how much that has helped us win games vs. NE.

Otherwise what has he done in big games to help us to wins?

Is he consitent? Hardly.

Can he be considered an impact player? No, not until he begins to step up vs. some of the better teams in the league. Bruce was a force in all games. Schobel plays well, albeit from only one angle, pass rushing, in most games too. He's top shelf yet not quite premier, in addition to on the cusp of turning downward.

Also, one thing that people rarely discuss here is what we pay for a particular position. Over the last bunch of years we have platooned our DEs and DTs. In terms of what that costs us as a team, we must consider the total cost in draft picks as well as cap hit and real dollars. A failure to do so necessarily leads to a failure in one's impression of how the FO is doing.

As an analogy, let's say that you need a car. If you your needs entail a good running car that's reliable and has a certain capacity, and you run out and buy three "good deals" (or not, doesn't matter) for say $8K apiece used, a car with the necessary capacity but nothing else, a reliable car b/c the first isn't, and then a "good runner," and drop $24K, that must be evaluated in your overall budget.

You can't say "what a great deal we got on that "good runner" if the other two weren't worth it or if overall the entire $24K spent has hurt your finances. When you consider that you probably could have gotten a brand new car for $20 (just as an example) that did everything, that's how you have to look at it.

So in terms of what we pay for players, we must look at what is paid for the position, not each player manning it when considering "the big picture." Most teams don't stock each of their defensive line positions with "two starters," or more, in each spot.

While there may be advantages for doing so, there are also disadvantages. The first being that the team simply cannot afford such a strategy in too many positions and then still be in a position via draft picks or cap space to stock the team with the kinds of caliber players required otherwise to build a winner. That IMO is something that the current Bills personnel office has never understood.

Either way, Kelsay rarely has big games against teams that are much above average. Until that happens, he's an average player just like Bledsoe who also loaded up against scrub teams/Ds. Yet everyone here cheered and heralded his arrival.

Who knows, perhaps this is the season that Kelsay cements himself into the annuls of football lore with a 14 sack season while tearing it up agianst the league's best teams, but to date he hasn't done that or evne come close.

[OpIv37]

Re: Forked Thread: I can't believe it hasn't been suggested yet...

Why are we so quick to close the book on Kelsay again?

4 years of mediocrity. Since when is 4 years considered "quick"?

[madness]

Re: Forked Thread: I can't believe it hasn't been suggested yet...

4 years of mediocrity. Since when is 4 years considered "quick"?

So you are in the same group of people that said the exact same thing about Kampman.

[DraftBoy]

Re: Forked Thread: I can't believe it hasn't been suggested yet...

Kampan also is integral in their run D, Kelsay is pretty much a non factor except for beyond the LOS or the occasional play he makes at the line. People use stats too much learn to watch other games then just the Bills.

[justasportsfan]

Re: Forked Thread: I can't believe it hasn't been suggested yet...

Kelsay did a swell job playing (even rotating w/ Denney)in this D for the first time. He played better in this sytem than he ever did under GW and can only get better barring injuries.