What we're missing about the Darwin Walker situation

[OpIv37]

Our horrid DL is now almost EXACTLY the same as it was last year. The only minor differences are:

1. McCargo is healthy (or at least he should be). However, McCargo missed 10 games and had two off-season surgeries, meaning he didn't get the experience or the conditioning time to make that big Year 1 to Year 2 jump that's been universally accepted as fact around here.

2. Hargrove has a full off season. While I love Hargrove's energy and enthusiasm, he didn't show much on the field last year. Or in previous years before he was traded here.

That's it. Our personnel is exactly the same- all we have is slightly more experience. And that's not enough to improve on the 28th ranked run D.

[Tatonka]

so you dont expect players to improve from rookie season to next, or from first year w/ a team to the next? nothing to be said for playing with the same guys.. continuity?

[theanswer74]

If you want to believe Marv, our poor run defense was because our LB's were not aggressive enough. Thats pretty much all we heard from Marv when it came to the defense.

Well, they added a bigger and faster MLB, so lets see what happens there.

[Michael82]

If you really believe the Bills are done..... I have a house to sell you. I personally think that they are targeting a few DTs and will scour the waiver wire and look at teams with a lot of depth. Don't forget that they have a bunch of draft picks now. I could see them inquiring about Kris Jenkins..... :up:

[Michael82]

If you want to believe Marv, our poor run defense was because our LB's were not aggressive enough. Thats pretty much all we heard from Marv when it came to the defense.

Well, they added a bigger and faster MLB, so lets see what happens there.
Exactly! I think that our slow LBs made the DL look worse than it really was. :::

[OpIv37]

so you dont expect players to improve from rookie season to next, or from first year w/ a team to the next? nothing to be said for playing with the same guys.. continuity?

ok, one more time....

We were 28th in run D last year. We were 24th in turnovers. Our D couldn't get off the field when it mattered most.

We added ZERO talent to the DL, and in fact the only talent that was added to the D at all is Poz, who is a rookie and will likely play like one, at least for a while.

Will the young guys improve? Probably. Will they improve enough to compensate for last year's shortcomings plus the loss of Spikes, Fletcher and Clements? Not ****ing likely.

We're doing the same thing and expecting different results. That's insane.

[OpIv37]

If you want to believe Marv, our poor run defense was because our LB's were not aggressive enough. Thats pretty much all we heard from Marv when it came to the defense.

Well, they added a bigger and faster MLB, so lets see what happens there.

Ok, well, DiGiorgio and Ellison were here last year- the only addition is Poz. So basically if the LB's were the problem like you claim, then Poz is solely responsible for fixing the Run D. Great.

Personally I think the DL had a lot more to do with it. When they're getting blown off the ball instead of holding their ground or shooting the gaps, it makes life a lot more difficult for the LB's.

[theanswer74]

Exactly! I think that our slow LBs made the DL look worse than it really was. :::

Im not going to totally disagree with him though because Im sure Tim Anderson had a lot to do with our poor run defense, and the fact that Anthony Hargrove and Jason Jefferson were regulars in our DT rotation after McCargo got hurt. McCargo HAS to become a regular contributer or we are in trouble upfront.

But honestly, I cant remember one time London Fletcher met a RB at the line or behind it and just buried him right there, even when we had Pat Williams and Sam Adams here.

[Buckets]

so you dont expect players to improve from rookie season to next, or from first year w/ a team to the next? nothing to be said for playing with the same guys.. continuity?

This only happens on other teams not the Bills. Also rookies can only be impact players on other teams not the Bills. OP rules

[OpIv37]

This only happens on other teams not the Bills. Also rookies can only be impact players on other teams not the Bills. OP rules

other teams don't have 6+ of 11 starters on D as young guys that need to improve. Other teams didn't finish 28th against the run or 24th in TO's. Other teams add talent to supplement the improvement of young guys.

[madness]

The real question is... are you going to own up with the same amount of posts and threads if the run defense gets significantly better this year?

I'm guessing no.

[OpIv37]

The real question is... are you going to own up with the same amount of posts and threads if the run defense gets significantly better this year?

I'm guessing no.

IF that happens (which it won't), I'll own up but not in the same amount of posts. There's no need because people listen the first time when someone is telling them what they WANT to hear.

Why is it that I get ripped on for being repetitive but the people who repeat Marv' mantra of 2nd year players improving or "Ellison was as good as Spikes last year" or "The O will make the D better" or any of this other **** that's been posted incessantly never take any heat for being repetitive?

[Philagape]

IF that happens (which it won't)

Speculation spoken as fact!!!

[Wys Guy]

Our horrid DL is now almost EXACTLY the same as it was last year. The only minor differences are:

1. McCargo is healthy (or at least he should be). However, McCargo missed 10 games and had two off-season surgeries, meaning he didn't get the experience or the conditioning time to make that big Year 1 to Year 2 jump that's been universally accepted as fact around here.

2. Hargrove has a full off season. While I love Hargrove's energy and enthusiasm, he didn't show much on the field last year. Or in previous years before he was traded here.

That's it. Our personnel is exactly the same- all we have is slightly more experience. And that's not enough to improve on the 28th ranked run D.

The other thing that everyone has missed is that Darwin Walker is no different than all of the other slop brought on and heralded as "fixes" to our line issues yet categorically resulting in equally absysmal continued failures.

The man's 30, clearly coming down, has never shown a propensity to make an impact in big games.

He's gone, it's over, no loss. He will play better for the Bears D than he would have here, but which player wouldn't. The player to keep an eye on is Spikes. I'll say it now, he's going to have a very good and well above average year in Philly, much better than any of our current LBs except for perhaps Poz.

[OpIv37]

The other thing that everyone has missed is that Darwin Walker is no different than all of the other slop brought on and heralded as "fixes" to our line issues yet categorically resulting in equally absysmal continued failures.

The man's 30, clearly coming down, has never shown a propensity to make an impact in big games.

He's gone, it's over, no loss.

I disagree- while he's nothing special, he's better than Anderson and Jefferson.

We need serious improvement at DT, but we're obviously not going to get it. At this point in the off-season I'd take mild improvement over nothing.

[TacklingDummy]

ok, one more time....

We were 28th in run D last year. We were 24th in turnovers. Our D couldn't get off the field when it mattered most.



The best thing that could happen to the defense is for the offense to improve on being last in time of possession, last in total plays, and last in first downs.

The defense last year wasn't all that bad considering how often they were put on the field due to an ineffective offense.

[madness]

IF that happens (which it won't), I'll own up but not in the same amount of posts. There's no need because people listen the first time when someone is telling them what they WANT to hear.

Why is it that I get ripped on for being repetitive but the people who repeat Marv' mantra of 2nd year players improving or "Ellison was as good as Spikes last year" or "The O will make the D better" or any of this other **** that's been posted incessantly never take any heat for being repetitive?

Are they repetitive answers to your repetitive questions?

[HAMMER]

I disagree- while he's nothing special, he's better than Anderson and Jefferson.

We need serious improvement at DT, but we're obviously not going to get it. At this point in the off-season I'd take mild improvement over nothing.

If we had signed him you would have found a way to complain about it, guaranteed.

[Jan Reimers]

It's impossible to even have a discussion with people who give no credence to the fact that young players - Williams, McCargo, Ellison and DiGiorgio to name a few - will get better; that a healthy McCargo - a highly touted first rounder - will make an appreciable difference; that a second year in the same system with the same defensive coordinator will be a major plus; and that arookie like Poz could make a huge contribution.

In the negative world, young players don't get much better, continuity means little, rookies are never as good as the tired, sagging veterans they replace, and guys who have played a whole 5 games are consigned to the "he sucks" pile.

If you don't have a proven veteran player at every position, and know with absolute certainty that every area of your team is strong and deep, well. . .everything sucks and will always suck.

[OpIv37]

If we had signed him you would have found a way to complain about it, guaranteed.

no- I would have said exactly what I just said- the guy's not perfect but he's an improvement of what we had. Don't put words in my mouth.

[OpIv37]

It's impossible to even have a discussion with people who give no credence to the fact that young players - Williams, McCargo, Ellison and DiGiorgio to name a few - will get better; that a healthy McCargo - a highly touted first rounder - will make an appreciable difference; that a second year in the same system with the same defensive coordinator will be a major plus; and that arookie like Poz could make a huge contribution.

In the negative world, young players don't get much better, continuity means little, rookies are never as good as the tired, sagging veterans they replace, and guys who have played a whole 5 games are consigned to the "he sucks" pile.

If you don't have a proven veteran player at every position, and know with absolute certainty that every area of your team is strong and deep, well. . .everything sucks and will always suck.

you just don't get it do you? We don't have a proven player at ANY position (except Schobel), and we're trying to improve on the 28th ranked run D with NO ADDITIONAL TALENT. I never said guys don't improve- I said expecting one year of improvement to fill the gap between where we were and where we need to be is just unrealistic.

[HAMMER]

you just don't get it do you? We don't have a proven player at ANY position (except Schobel), and we're trying to improve on the 28th ranked run D with NO ADDITIONAL TALENT. I never said guys don't improve- I said expecting one year of improvement to fill the gap between where we were and where we need to be is just unrealistic.

You are the one that doesn't get it, Marv is building a team. You would be the perfect Redskin fan. You live in the area and you subscribe to the Snyder school of signing big name, overpriced FA's. It's worked really well to this point for the Redskins huh?

[HHURRICANE]

Rather than turn this into a homer vs. realist debate can we just agree that we didn't do anything to improve the DL. Walker not signing isn't a positive so let's call it was it is.

If you want to argue that the LB crew stunk and that's what made us look bad than your essentaiily saying that Poz-Crowell-Ellison is better than Fletcher-Crowell-Spikes. How much better? Alot better? Incredibly better? Unbeleivably better?

The D is much improved becuase our DL, with the exact same players, is healthy and has another year under their belt? Our LB crew is better because we added a standout rookie and we have Ellison playing as a starter?

Really how much better are we on the D?

[Buckets]

Rather than turn this into a homer vs. realist debate can we just agree that we didn't do anything to improve the DL. Walker not signing isn't a positive so let's call it was it is.

If you want to argue that the LB crew stunk and that's what made us look bad than your essentaiily saying that Poz-Crowell-Ellison is better than Fletcher-Crowell-Spikes. How much better? Alot better? Incredibly better? Unbeleivably better?

The D is much improved becuase our DL, with the exact same players, is healthy and has another year under their belt? Our LB crew is better because we added a standout rookie and we have Ellison playing as a starter?

Really how much better are we on the D?

Only time, not speculation will tell.

[OpIv37]

You are the one that doesn't get it, Marv is building a team. You would be the perfect Redskin fan. You live in the area and you subscribe to the Snyder school of signing big name, overpriced FA's. It's worked really well to this point for the Redskins huh?

you obviously didn't read my post. There's no point in responding if you're not going to pay attention.

[North_Coast]

you just don't get it do you? We don't have a proven player at ANY position (except Schobel), and we're trying to improve on the 28th ranked run D with NO ADDITIONAL TALENT. I never said guys don't improve- I said expecting one year of improvement to fill the gap between where we were and where we need to be is just unrealistic.

There are more ways to improve a defense than simply bringing in talent through trades or FA signings.

One way is to draft players. The Bills have done that with Poz. Will he have a great impact this season? Probably not, especially not early in the season, but by the end of the season, he might be coming into his own. He's smart and he wants to play. I would say he could improve the D somewhat.

Another way to improve is to work with the players that the Bills already have. You are undervaluing the difficulty in learning a new defensive system, for both rookies and vets. Having experience in the system should improve the D somewhat. Add to that the return of two key players who were injured most of last season: John McCargo and Angelo Crowell. If they can come back from their injuries and play well, that will improve the D considerably.

Yet a third way to improve the defense is to improve the offense, which the Bills have done by adding real talent to the OL and getting a RB who not only has the ability to run but catch passes out of the backfield. This, Op, is what you're really ignoring. For at least the first half of last season, the Bills offense was a liability as it struggled with a young QB behind a weak OL. This statement underscores that problem for the defense:

The best thing that could happen to the defense is for the offense to improve on being last in time of possession, last in total plays, and last in first downs.

The biggest improvement in the D is going to come because the offense can get the 1 or 2 yards on 3rd or 4th down to sustain drives and score TDs instead of settling for FGs. That's why the Bills spent $75 million on the OL. I expect that the offense may carry the D for while, maybe most of the season. Statistically, the D will improve because opponents won't have so many chances.

One last point: cover 2/tampa 2 defenses are never great statistically against the run but they can be very difficult to score points against, and the Bills' much maligned D wasn't so awful in that category since they were 10th in the league. The last time I looked, winning or losing depended upon scoring more points that the opposition, not gaining more yards.

[OpIv37]

There are more ways to improve a defense than simply bringing in talent through trades or FA signings.

One way is to draft players. The Bills have done that with Poz. Will he have a great impact this season? Probably not, especially not early in the season, but by the end of the season, he might be coming into his own. He's smart and he wants to play. I would say he could improve the D somewhat.

Another way to improve is to work with the players that the Bills already have. You are undervaluing the difficulty in learning a new defensive system, for both rookies and vets. Having experience in the system should improve the D somewhat. Add to that the return of two key players who were injured most of last season: John McCargo and Angelo Crowell. If they can come back from their injuries and play well, that will improve the D considerably.

Yet a third way to improve the defense is to improve the offense, which the Bills have done by adding real talent to the OL and getting a RB who not only has the ability to run but catch passes out of the backfield. This, Op, is what you're really ignoring. For at least the first half of last season, the Bills offense was a liability as it struggled with a young QB behind a weak OL. This statement underscores that problem for the defense:


The biggest improvement in the D is going to come because the offense can get the 1 or 2 yards on 3rd or 4th down to sustain drives and scores TDs instead of settling for FGs. That's why the Bills spent $75 million on the OL. I expect that the offense may carry the D for while, maybe most of the season. Statistically, the D will improve because opponents won't have so many chances.

One last point: cover 2/tampa 2 defenses are never great statistically against the run but they can be very difficult to score points against, and the Bills' much maligned D wasn't so awful in that category since they were 10th in the league. The last time I looked, winning or losing depended upon scoring more points that the opposition, not gaining more yards.


Crowell only missed 4 games so the D was struggling even when he was in there. When it comes to McCargo, he missed 10 games and he had two surgeries in the off-season. Improvement comes with experience and conditioning time, and McCargo missed out on both.

I agree that the offense should be better, but no matter how good the offense is, the D has to take the field at some time.

The 10th in points stat is overrated because it doesn't matter when the D can't get off the field. We were 24th in turnovers and 28th in run D , and I don't remember the ranking in TOP but that was poor as well. Once the other team got a lead, no matter how small, we couldn't get the ball back to do anything about it. Until that changes, holding teams to low overall points isn't going to lead to wins.

[HHURRICANE]

The 10th in points stat is overrated because it doesn't matter when the D can't get off the field.

I totally agree on this stat being overrated. In the first game of the year NE hung onto the ball the last 8 minutes of the game. They could have scored a TD or a field goal (which they were well in range for) but just decided to let the clock run out. The Colts did the same thing. Tennessee ran the ball taking 7 minutes off the clock towards the end of the game.

It wasn't so much that teams couldn't score against us as much as it was smarter to just keep our offense off the field by running the ball down our gut. I'll bet this stat will be the same this year.

[GarnOFreak]

Okay here's some numbers to think about:

The Bills ran 898 Offensive plays(32nd Rank)(League Leader was a surprizing GB with 1085 plays) for an average of 4.8 yards per play(28th rank-leader was Philly with 6.2ypp) where they chewed up an average of 28:04 minutes a game(30th rank- leader was Baltimore with 32:49 TOP) while only converting 31.7% of 3rd downs(rank 31st-Leader was Indy at 56.1%).

One good result was that the Offense was 8th in least amount of penalties.(pretty easy when you aren't on the field, right?)

So, it's a pretty safe bet to say that the Offense is going to be better(the only way to go is up...lol) Even slight improvements in the above categories will help make the D look more respectable during games. IF we can move down the field and score this year, we don't have to play catch up while the other team runs on us. The other teams will have to pass more to keep up with our Offense. That's the argument that I think folks are trying to make. We strenghtened our Offense to change the way teams play our Defense.

If we're up at the end of the game, teams aren't going to keep running on us like they did last year because we couldn't put it in the end zone, they will have to pass(and face our Secondary which is the stronger part of this Defense).

We lost a half a dozen or so games last year by one score. We couldn't score more than 21 points in all but one of those games(Tenn we got 29) and lost the TOP battle by an average of over 3 minutes. That means that the other team had about 7 more minutes worth of plays each game. Don't blame the defense for crumbling when they get pounded on a drive and have to go back out again after a three and out series.

[John Doe]

I don't see what people are upset about.

The defense will be much better this year.

[OpIv37]

Okay here's some numbers to think about:

The Bills ran 898 Offensive plays(32nd Rank)(League Leader was a surprizing GB with 1085 plays) for an average of 4.8 yards per play(28th rank-leader was Philly with 6.2ypp) where they chewed up an average of 28:04 minutes a game(30th rank- leader was Baltimore with 32:49 TOP) while only converting 31.7% of 3rd downs(rank 31st-Leader was Indy at 56.1%).

One good result was that the Offense was 8th in least amount of penalties.(pretty easy when you aren't on the field, right?)

So, it's a pretty safe bet to say that the Offense is going to be better(the only way to go is up...lol) Even slight improvements in the above categories will help make the D look more respectable during games. IF we can move down the field and score this year, we don't have to play catch up while the other team runs on us. The other teams will have to pass more to keep up with our Offense. That's the argument that I think folks are trying to make. We strenghtened our Offense to change the way teams play our Defense.

If we're up at the end of the game, teams aren't going to keep running on us like they did last year because we couldn't put it in the end zone, they will have to pass(and face our Secondary which is the stronger part of this Defense).

We lost a half a dozen or so games last year by one score. We couldn't score more than 21 points in all but one of those games(Tenn we got 29) and lost the TOP battle by an average of over 3 minutes. That means that the other team had about 7 more minutes worth of plays each game. Don't blame the defense for crumbling when they get pounded on a drive and have to go back out again after a three and out series.

On the other hand, when you figure in that we were 24th in turnovers, 28th in rush D and bad in TOP, the D wasn't exactly giving the O a lot of opportunities. It goes both ways.

[The last buffalo fan]

On the other hand, when you figure in that we were 24th in turnovers, 28th in rush D and bad in TOP, the D wasn't exactly giving the O a lot of opportunities. It goes both ways.

:spit: :rofl:

Oh Lord!!!!!

[RedEyE]

The Patriots DL makes the LBs better then they are...so I see your point.

It would be nice to have better talent on the DL, but how do you force someone to play for a team that they don't want to play for?

[Goobylal]

The player to keep an eye on is Spikes. I'll say it now, he's going to have a very good and well above average year in Philly, much better than any of our current LBs except for perhaps Poz.
On what would you base this (i.e. tackles, stuffs, sacks, INT's, Pro Bowl berth, etc.)? And is this ANOTHER potential bet we could make that you'll refuse to take?

And an Op, yes, this is the EXACT SAME defense as last year. Except McCargo's healthy. And Hargrove has half a season and a full off-season and training camp. And guys like Whitner, Simpson, Ellison, and Williams won't be rookies anymore. And Crowell takes over for a hobbled Spikes. And Poz takes over for a pursuit LB'er in Fletcher.

Other than that, it's the EXACT SAME defense. And the EXACT SAME thing you've been repeating ad nauseum the past month.

[Luisito23]

It'll improve once we get Tank!!!......:bf1: ...





GO BILLS!!!!!!!

[duhbilz]

If you want to believe Marv, our poor run defense was because our LB's were not aggressive enough. Thats pretty much all we heard from Marv when it came to the defense.

Well, they added a bigger and faster MLB, so lets see what happens there.

Poz might be taller, but he's a lot lighter then Fletch.

[OpIv37]

On what would you base this (i.e. tackles, stuffs, sacks, INT's, Pro Bowl berth, etc.)? And is this ANOTHER potential bet we could make that you'll refuse to take?

And an Op, yes, this is the EXACT SAME defense as last year. Except McCargo's healthy. And Hargrove has half a season and a full off-season and training camp. And guys like Whitner, Simpson, Ellison, and Williams won't be rookies anymore. And Crowell takes over for a hobbled Spikes. And Poz takes over for a pursuit LB'er in Fletcher.

Other than that, it's the EXACT SAME defense. And the EXACT SAME thing you've been repeating ad nauseum the past month.

Crowell played last year- in fact I think he was a starter WITH Spikes and Fletch, so I don't see how he takes over for Spikes.

Hargrove isn't even a starter. And like I said before, I love the guy's intensity but he did nothing on the field. I watched him closely because I was hoping he would upgrade our DT situation but he really didn't. He was actually more effective at DE than DT and he only had brief stints in there spelling Schobel.

The only new face is Poz and whoever takes over for Clements. Everyone else are the same guys who played last year- maybe not the starters but guys who got significant playing time.

[GarnOFreak]

On the other hand, when you figure in that we were 24th in turnovers, 28th in rush D and bad in TOP, the D wasn't exactly giving the O a lot of opportunities. It goes both ways.

Agreed. Improvement in one area should help the other though.

[Nighthawk]

If you really believe the Bills are done..... I have a house to sell you. I personally think that they are targeting a few DTs and will scour the waiver wire and look at teams with a lot of depth. Don't forget that they have a bunch of draft picks now. I could see them inquiring about Kris Jenkins..... :up:

I'd love for them to look into trading for Jenkins. Wow, what an upgrade that would be!

[PECKERWOOD]

Our horrid DL is now almost EXACTLY the same as it was last year. The only minor differences are:

1. McCargo is healthy (or at least he should be). However, McCargo missed 10 games and had two off-season surgeries, meaning he didn't get the experience or the conditioning time to make that big Year 1 to Year 2 jump that's been universally accepted as fact around here.

2. Hargrove has a full off season. While I love Hargrove's energy and enthusiasm, he didn't show much on the field last year. Or in previous years before he was traded here.

That's it. Our personnel is exactly the same- all we have is slightly more experience. And that's not enough to improve on the 28th ranked run D.

I expect way more out of you than this crap Op. Kyle Williams is going to make a huge jump this year, he was pretty good last year and add on the experience and conditioning that he has had since then and that alone proves to be an upgrade at DT. Also, Tripplett started coming on strong at the end of last year, look for him to carry that over. Also, having the same lineup at DT for another year HELPS us, not hurts us. These guys are starting to gel together. This isn't Madden, you can't bring in an arsenal of free agents and expect them to perform immediately, they must first conform and get acquainted with the system that you're running. ( that's why I think New England is going to drop off further this year, too many FA's. I'm going to start calling Belibaby Snyder Jr. ) Plus, I'm not sure how you can look at having McCargo healthy and ready for this year as a con, I view it as a pro. Make no mistake about it, our rookies from last year are going to start paying dividends this year.

I am also one of the few that views our starting linebacking unit as upgraded and improved. People are forgetting that last year was Crowell's first season as a true starter, you can't tell me that that experience hasn't helped him at all, same goes for Ellison. I'm not going to hate on Fletch, at this stage in his career he has an immense amount of football knowledge, however, I feel that Posluszny brings alot more explosion, power and just has more piss and vinegar in his system and I like that. If you're looking for a drop off this year, look at our pass defense to drop, losing Nate Clements a lockdown CB at times, is going to hurt us.

[Stewie]

IF that happens (which it won't), I'll own up but not in the same amount of posts. There's no need because people listen the first time when someone is telling them what they WANT to hear.

Why is it that I get ripped on for being repetitive but the people who repeat Marv' mantra of 2nd year players improving or "Ellison was as good as Spikes last year" or "The O will make the D better" or any of this other **** that's been posted incessantly never take any heat for being repetitive?

Because you're a message board know it all, and he's an NFL GM?

[Goobylal]

I expect way more out of you than this crap Op. Kyle Williams is going to make a huge jump this year, he was pretty good last year and add on the experience and conditioning that he has had since then and that alone proves to be an upgrade at DT. Also, Tripplett started coming on strong at the end of last year, look for him to carry that over. Also, having the same lineup at DT for another year HELPS us, not hurts us. These guys are starting to gel together. This isn't Madden, you can't bring in an arsenal of free agents and expect them to perform immediately, they must first conform and get acquainted with the system that you're running. ( that's why I think New England is going to drop off further this year, too many FA's. I'm going to start calling Belibaby Snyder Jr. ) Plus, I'm not sure how you can look at having McCargo healthy and ready for this year as a con, I view it as a pro. Make no mistake about it, our rookies from last year are going to start paying dividends this year.

I am also one of the few that views our starting linebacking unit as upgraded and improved. People are forgetting that last year was Crowell's first season as a true starter, you can't tell me that that experience hasn't helped him at all, same goes for Ellison. I'm not going to hate on Fletch, at this stage in his career he has an immense amount of football knowledge, however, I feel that Posluszny brings alot more explosion, power and just has more piss and vinegar in his system and I like that. If you're looking for a drop off this year, look at our pass defense to drop, losing Nate Clements a lockdown CB at times, is going to hurt us.
Forget it. According to Op, players can't improve from their rookie to their 2nd year. For that matter, FA's also can't improve from their first to their 2nd year with a new team. Moreover, Spikes, Fletcher, and Clements were perennial, young Pro Bowlers who will be impossible to replace.

[X-Era]

Our horrid DL is now almost EXACTLY the same as it was last year. The only minor differences are:

1. McCargo is healthy (or at least he should be). However, McCargo missed 10 games and had two off-season surgeries, meaning he didn't get the experience or the conditioning time to make that big Year 1 to Year 2 jump that's been universally accepted as fact around here.

2. Hargrove has a full off season. While I love Hargrove's energy and enthusiasm, he didn't show much on the field last year. Or in previous years before he was traded here.

That's it. Our personnel is exactly the same- all we have is slightly more experience. And that's not enough to improve on the 28th ranked run D.

OP, love ya man, but this is real simple. HE DIDNT WANT TO PLAY HERE!!!!

He signed in one damn day with the Bears.

[The Spaz]

We are not going to be missing the 5 year 25 million dollar salary he is getting.

[FlyingDutchman]

Ok OP. What exactly would you like them to do? They tried getting Walker but couldnt forsee him being a jerk off. What exactly would you do? Offer something up instead of just complaining.

Youve beaten this we lost big name players on D, we're gonna suck horse into the ground.

[BillsFever21]

ok, one more time....

We were 28th in run D last year. We were 24th in turnovers. Our D couldn't get off the field when it mattered most.

We added ZERO talent to the DL, and in fact the only talent that was added to the D at all is Poz, who is a rookie and will likely play like one, at least for a while.

Will the young guys improve? Probably. Will they improve enough to compensate for last year's shortcomings plus the loss of Spikes, Fletcher and Clements? Not ****ing likely.

We're doing the same thing and expecting different results. That's insane.

Come on now OP. You should know by now that you can't judge a player(s) on how he has played his entire year. This is a new year and you have no idea how he/they will play.

[justasportsfan]

This is a new year and you have no idea how he/they will play.
he does . he really thinks he does.

[BillsFever21]

OP, love ya man, but this is real simple. HE DIDNT WANT TO PLAY HERE!!!!

He signed in one damn day with the Bears.

Because they offered him a real contract that he insisted on before he was traded here. That is why he signed in one day. And don't call the Bills and their 1 million dollar raise a new contract.

Had the Bills offered him a similar contract he would be in training camp right now.

I have never heard of a situation like this before in any sport that a team trades for a player THEY WANT but then trade him again because they can't sign him to a new contract.

[OpIv37]

I expect way more out of you than this crap Op. Kyle Williams is going to make a huge jump this year, he was pretty good last year and add on the experience and conditioning that he has had since then and that alone proves to be an upgrade at DT. Also, Tripplett started coming on strong at the end of last year, look for him to carry that over. Also, having the same lineup at DT for another year HELPS us, not hurts us. These guys are starting to gel together. This isn't Madden, you can't bring in an arsenal of free agents and expect them to perform immediately, they must first conform and get acquainted with the system that you're running. ( that's why I think New England is going to drop off further this year, too many FA's. I'm going to start calling Belibaby Snyder Jr. ) Plus, I'm not sure how you can look at having McCargo healthy and ready for this year as a con, I view it as a pro. Make no mistake about it, our rookies from last year are going to start paying dividends this year.

I am also one of the few that views our starting linebacking unit as upgraded and improved. People are forgetting that last year was Crowell's first season as a true starter, you can't tell me that that experience hasn't helped him at all, same goes for Ellison. I'm not going to hate on Fletch, at this stage in his career he has an immense amount of football knowledge, however, I feel that Posluszny brings alot more explosion, power and just has more piss and vinegar in his system and I like that. If you're looking for a drop off this year, look at our pass defense to drop, losing Nate Clements a lockdown CB at times, is going to hurt us.

So, your premise is teams that dont add talent get better, and teams that do add talent get worse?

Wow.

[OpIv37]

Ok OP. What exactly would you like them to do? They tried getting Walker but couldnt forsee him being a jerk off. What exactly would you do? Offer something up instead of just complaining.

Youve beaten this we lost big name players on D, we're gonna suck horse into the ground.

Not only that we lost big names, but our D sucked last year and we didnt add any talent. We are doing the same thing and expecting different results

[OpIv37]

Because you're a message board know it all, and he's an NFL GM?

justa, mysticsoto, FlyingDutchman, ublinkwescore and BillsFever are NFL GMs? Since when?

[OpIv37]

OP, love ya man, but this is real simple. HE DIDNT WANT TO PLAY HERE!!!!

He signed in one damn day with the Bears.

and Darwin Walker was the ONLY DT available all off-season?

The end result is the same: same DL that wasnt good enough last year.

[GarnOFreak]

I'd love for them to look into trading for Jenkins. Wow, what an upgrade that would be!

Why the heck would we want Jenkins? He hasn't impressed me at all in his NFL career. I mean sure Michael Vick won't be throwing him passes anytime soon but...oh wait... Kris Jenkins...ahem ....I ...uh...n/m :doh:

just kidding, but hope it gets a giggle

[Goobylal]

Sorry but no way Walker accepts the same deal the Bears just gave him. I'm sure that option payment in March of $5M is what he wanted from the Bills in the form of a signing bonus.

[Typ0]

the original poster is right and he never said they weren't going to be better...but some of the homerism here is elton john size rose colored glasses. yeah, of course they are going to get better because they have more experience and time together. If they jump ten spots though that would be amazing and I don't see it happening. try being realistic for a change as nice as it is to annoint them champions in the preseason the team actually needs to play the games and there are 32 other teams that have something to say about how much we are going to improve.

[Goobylal]

All things being equal, a better offense and even a slightly better defense puts the Bills in the playoffs last year.