Lynch makes me glad Willis is gone!!

[HHURRICANE]

Thanks to Mikeinroch for his thread. I pulled this off of the same Peter King article!!! Impressive to say the least!!

7. I think Marshawn Lynch impressed me off the field the other day, after showing terrific moves on the field. Lynch was telling me how much he loves to watch Michael Vick play, and how last year at Cal he never watched much football, but every time Vick was on, it was appointment TV. And I asked him if he thought Vick was getting a fair shake and if he thought the charges against him were fair. (Which, of course, Lynch can't know. But I was trolling for his opinion in case he had a strong one.)
"I don't feel I'm in a place to have an opinion on that,'' he said. "I don't know anything about the case. So I really shouldn't say anything.''

[Jan Reimers]

I think that's one thing almost all of us Zoners - despite our divergent opinions on so many issues - can agree on.

[ddaryl]

there is something wrong with an RB who when he runs for a 60yd TD has to toss oats.

[OpIv37]

Lil John hairdo notwithstanding, Lynch showed right there that he has a better head on his shoulders than McGahee. I can't even imagine what kind of dumbass response Willis would have spewed out in that situation.

McGahee is definitely good riddance.

[B-DON]

This is exactly what i was saying Jimbo should have said instead of giving his opinion on the case. Lynch just keeps on proving why marv made an excellent choice with the 12th pick.

[evol4276]

Thanks to Mikeinroch for his thread. I pulled this off of the same Peter King article!!! Impressive to say the least!!

7. I think Marshawn Lynch impressed me off the field the other day, after showing terrific moves on the field. Lynch was telling me how much he loves to watch Michael Vick play, and how last year at Cal he never watched much football, but every time Vick was on, it was appointment TV. And I asked him if he thought Vick was getting a fair shake and if he thought the charges against him were fair. (Which, of course, Lynch can't know. But I was trolling for his opinion in case he had a strong one.)
"I don't feel I'm in a place to have an opinion on that,'' he said. "I don't know anything about the case. So I really shouldn't say anything.'' that is about the least "thug-thing" he culd ever say. if he was like everyone thought he was before we drafted him he'd be like clinton portis (whom i have no problem with at all btw) and saying how it isnt a problem etc etc. that quote there shows he is a great kid who knows when to and to not speak. LYNCHY, you are going to make us Bills fans proud :-)

[Ed]

Lil John hairdo notwithstanding, Lynch showed right there that he has a better head on his shoulders than McGahee. I can't even imagine what kind of dumbass response Willis would have spewed out in that situation.

McGahee is definitely good riddance.
Probably some similar dumbass response that his U of Miami buddy Clinton Portis gave.

[ublinkwescore]

This is exactly what i was saying Jimbo should have said instead of giving his opinion on the case. Lynch just keeps on proving why marv made an excellent choice with the 12th pick.

Kelly's retired and in the hall, and the Feds are pursuing this case - and from what I've heard, the Feds have like a 99% conviction rate or something like that - Kelly's earned the right to speak his mind.

[Carlton Bailey]

The funniest thing about McGahee is that every year, he promises to be incredibly fast and multidimensional -- he's doing it again this season -- but it never happens. Willis will continue to be average in Baltimore, and Buffalo will have a great RB duo in Lynch and Wright both now and in the forseeable future. Life is good.

[clumping platelets]

McGahee? :huh:

[duhbilz]

The funniest thing about McGahee is that every year, he promises to be incredibly fast and multidimensional -- he's doing it again this season -- but it never happens. Willis will continue to be average in Baltimore, and Buffalo will have a great RB duo in Lynch and Wright both now and in the forseeable future. Life is good.

So you don't think getting a 1000 yards behind the Oline Buffalo had last year is an accomplishment? Considering how low the Bills Offense was ranked Willis still churned out 1000 yards. I understand why fans would having an issue with Willis's attitude and rightfully so, but you act as if Willis has no talent and that simply isn't true. He ran well last year considering the circustances.

I think there is no denying Lynch's ability or talent, but to listen to some fans here Lynch is ten times the RB Willis is. Comon, you give JP all the credit in the world when all he did was post avg numbers last year, but you don't give Willis any credit at all for the same type of season. Lets not forget Willis wasn't the only guy accused of having an attitude problem. I do believe there have been reports of JP having the same in the past. Bottom line is Willis's talent wasn't the issue in Buffalo. I think Lynch should prove worthy of the 12th selection before he's crowned. I love his speed and his talent, but he's proven nothing yet.

[MikeInRoch]

Willis's attitude was the issue. He only showed up against the Jets.

[OpIv37]

So you don't think getting a 1000 yards behind the Oline Buffalo had last year is an accomplishment? Considering how low the Bills Offense was ranked Willis still churned out 1000 yards. I understand why fans would having an issue with Willis's attitude and rightfully so, but you act as if Willis has no talent and that simply isn't true. He ran well last year considering the circustances.

I think there is no denying Lynch's ability or talent, but to listen to some fans here Lynch is ten times the RB Willis is. Comon, you give JP all the credit in the world when all he did was post avg numbers last year, but you don't give Willis any credit at all for the same type of season. Lets not forget Willis wasn't the only guy accused of having an attitude problem. I do believe there have been reports of JP having the same in the past. Bottom line is Willis's talent wasn't the issue in Buffalo. I think Lynch should prove worthy of the 12th selection before he's crowned. I love his speed and his talent, but he's proven nothing yet.

First, Willis didn't get 1000 yards last year- he got 990.

Second, 1000 yards a season is only 62.5 yards per game, so that's not even a huge accomplishment.

The problem with Willis was his effort. Look at how many times he danced behind the line and got stuffed for no gain when he could have gotten at least two yards. Look at how A-Train ran downhill and had modest gains on plays where Willis would have been stuffed. Look at how Willis tore up the Jets to show up Vilma but sucked against anyone else.

Yeah, JP had his struggles and made his share of mistakes, but he never once gave up on a play. When the team is struggling, we need guys who are going to do everything they can to prop the team up, not guys like Willis who go dormant and pout like a 4 year old whose mom wouldn't buy him a candy bar at the supermarket check out lane.

If Willis wants to pull this "I'll use my talent when I want" attitude, he can do it in Baltimore. We don't want or need that **** on our team.

[Dr. Lecter]

Let's not forget Willis was not real keen on knowing the playbook or working out with his teammates when a new offense with new coaches was installed.

[Philagape]

I don't give Willis any credit for last year. He ran tentatively, showed no creativity and gave no second effort. If a RB is entirely dependent on the line, he's a nobody. Any second-stringer can do what he did.

[duhbilz]

First, Willis didn't get 1000 yards last year- he got 990.

Second, 1000 yards a season is only 62.5 yards per game, so that's not even a huge accomplishment.

The problem with Willis was his effort. Look at how many times he danced behind the line and got stuffed for no gain when he could have gotten at least two yards. Look at how A-Train ran downhill and had modest gains on plays where Willis would have been stuffed. Look at how Willis tore up the Jets to show up Vilma but sucked against anyone else.

Yeah, JP had his struggles and made his share of mistakes, but he never once gave up on a play. When the team is struggling, we need guys who are going to do everything they can to prop the team up, not guys like Willis who go dormant and pout like a 4 year old whose mom wouldn't buy him a candy bar at the supermarket check out lane.

If Willis wants to pull this "I'll use my talent when I want" attitude, he can do it in Baltimore. We don't want or need that **** on our team.


First of all 990 yards is basically....1000 yards. Secondly, you're missing the point. The Bills Oline had as much to do with Willis's production as anything. Could LT or Barry Sanders have gotten more last year behind that Bills Oline? Probably, but I don't think anyone would confuse Willis or Marshawn with LT and Barry. Lynch could turn out to be a better back then Willis, but we don't know that yet. Basically the Oline kept you from knowing if it was Willis lack of effort or lack of blocking. It sure doesn't take some fans here long to throw the Oline out there when disciussing how hindered JP was last year, but you don't see that same argument with Willis. If you can make excuses for JP's lack of production behind the Oline in 06, don't ignore it when discussing other areas of the Offense. It's all I'm saying. And like I said, attitude has been an issue with both JP and Willis.

[Dr. Lecter]

JP's attitude was never as bad as Willis. Not even close.

[Jan Reimers]

First of all 990 yards is basically....1000 yards
No, it really isn't. If you count up every time Willis came up a yard or a half yard short because of no second effort, those 10 yards cost us a lot of key first downs.

[duhbilz]

JP's attitude was never as bad as Willis. Not even close.

So that makes it excusable?

[Pinkerton Security]

So that makes it excusable?

Makes what excusable? I dont really remember JP's attitude being an issue.

[The Spaz]

So that makes it excusable?

Get lost troll. McGahee is a never was.

[duhbilz]

No, it really isn't. If you count up every time Willis came up a yard or a half yard short because of no second effort, those 10 yards cost us a lot of key first downs.

What about blown assingments? Where a G or T misses a block and the QB is sacked or the Running back is hit in the backfield? It's all part of the numbers, Willis is no saint and I'm not defending his attitude, I'm just making the point that it's not fair to judge him only. He didn't exactly have the best situation as a RB. Be glad he's gone, but don't attack his talent, like he had the best Oline in the game but couldn't manage a 1000 yards.

[duhbilz]

Get lost troll. McGahee is a never was.

Mature post.

[The Spaz]

Mature post.

I don't think you are by defending McGahee.

[The Spaz]

What about blown assingments? Where a G or T misses a block and the QB is sacked or the Running back is hit in the backfield? It's all part of the numbers, Willis is no saint and I'm not defending his attitude, I'm just making the point that it's not fair to judge him only. He didn't exactly have the best situation as a RB. Be glad he's gone, but don't attack his talent, like he had the best Oline in the game but couldn't manage a 1000 yards.

Anthony Thomas ran behind that same -o-line.

[Dr. Lecter]

What about blown assingments? Where a G or T misses a block and the QB is sacked or the Running back is hit in the backfield? It's all part of the numbers, Willis is no saint and I'm not defending his attitude, I'm just making the point that it's not fair to judge him only. He didn't exactly have the best situation as a RB. Be glad he's gone, but don't attack his talent, like he had the best Oline in the game but couldn't manage a 1000 yards.

Which is why the Bills got two FA's to fix the line. I don't think anybody here misses Villarrial either.

Willis is a solid RB. He is not great. He never regained the speed. He can't block and is too stupid to know how to run a pass pattern.

An above average RB. Nothing more, nothing less.

[duhbilz]

I don't think you are by defending McGahee.

I already stated I'm not defending Willis's attitude, just his talent.

[duhbilz]

Which is why the Bills got two FA's to fix the line. I don't think anybody here misses Villarrial either.

Willis is a solid RB. He is not great. He never regained the speed. He can't block and is too stupid to know how to run a pass pattern.

An above average RB. Nothing more, nothing less.

Tha's all I'm saying.

[Philagape]

I already stated I'm not defending Willis's attitude, just his talent.

Talent means nothing if it's underutilized because of attitude. Randy Moss may be the most talented WR in the league, but his attitude makes him a cancer.

[duhbilz]

Talent means nothing if it's underutilized because of attitude. Randy Moss may be the most talented WR in the league, but his attitude makes him a cancer.
Randy has had the same attitude his whole career, the difference is systems. In Minn under Scott Linehan the Vikes were a very serious threat. Randy goes to one of the worst offenses in the league and his success suffered because as a WR you only get so many touches a game, if you don't have a good QB, Oline and OC your production will suffer. The Reason Randy will succeed in NE is because of the SYSTEM, not his attitude. I'm not saying this is the case for everyone, but Randy will succeed in NE attiude and all because of his talent.

[Philagape]

Basically the Oline kept you from knowing if it was Willis lack of effort or lack of blocking.

No it didn't. Anyone could see it when Willis ran. I'll never forget when the Chargers came to town, the way LT ran. He looked like he was shot out of a cannon every time he touched the ball. Whether there was room or not, he just plowed ahead and said "here I come." I kept thinking, what a contrast to Willis. Now the response to this is, LT is the best back in the league. Well, one of the reasons he is so is that mentality. Willis doesn't have it except the rare times he felt like it. Anyone can have heart.

And it doesn't follow that the O-line MUST be equally implicated for JP as for Willis. Each player should be judged individually according to what actually happens on the field.

[duhbilz]

No it didn't. Anyone could see it when Willis ran. I'll never forget when the Chargers came to town, the way LT ran. He looked like he was shot out of a cannon every time he touched the ball. Whether there was room or not, he just plowed ahead and said "here I come." Now the response to this is, LT is the best back in the league. Well, one of the reasons he is so is that mentality. Willis doesn't have it except the rare times he felt like it. Anyone can have heart.

And it doesn't follow that the O-line MUST be equally implicated for JP as for Willis. Each player should be judged individually according to what actually happens on the field.

Look you can say what you like and see what you want, but you can't compare the way LT runs in SD with the way Willis ran in Buffalo. The two RB's are in two different systems behind two different lines and shcemes. How do you know LT wouldn't get frustrated running in Buffalo in 06? You don't, so you really can't compare the two. It's like you're trying to justify everything the Bills were because of Willis, that's hardly realistic. Willis had a crapy attitude we can all agree, but we don't share the same view of Willis's talent.

[Philagape]

Look you can say what you like and see what you want, but you can't compare the way LT runs in SD with the way Willis ran in Buffalo. The two RB's are in two different systems behind two different lines and shcemes. How do you know LT wouldn't get frustrated running in Buffalo in 06? You don't, so you really can't compare the two. It's like you're trying to justify everything the Bills were because of Willis, that's hardly realistic. Willis had a crapy attitude we can all agree, but we don't share the same view of Willis's talent.

Crappy attitude makes talent and system irrelevant. It's not the system that makes a RB be tentative and give no second effort and clearly show more motivation against select opponents. System is a crap excuse.

[Jan Reimers]

What about blown assingments? Where a G or T misses a block and the QB is sacked or the Running back is hit in the backfield? It's all part of the numbers, Willis is no saint and I'm not defending his attitude, I'm just making the point that it's not fair to judge him only. He didn't exactly have the best situation as a RB. Be glad he's gone, but don't attack his talent, like he had the best Oline in the game but couldn't manage a 1000 yards.
I'm sorry, but Willis - at least in his time with the Bills - was a very average RB who lacked the speed to get around the corner, the drive to get through the middle, the decisiveness to hit the hole quickly, the desire to learn the playbook, the team spirit to train and join his teammates at the OTAs, and the attitude to win over the fans.

To me he was a nonentity, and I'm thrilled that he is gone.

[B-DON]

Kelly's retired and in the hall, and the Feds are pursuing this case - and from what I've heard, the Feds have like a 99% conviction rate or something like that - Kelly's earned the right to speak his mind.


How does being in hall of fame give Jimbo the excuse to open his mouth on FEDERAL issues like this? Makes no sense. He is in the football hall of fame not the FBI hall of fame .

[RockStar36]

It's no secret that I was a big Willis fan since he was in college but his attitude was a problem. The things he said about the city and the team were complete garbage. He's not our problem anymore though. See ya Willis.

And anyone comparing his attitude to JP's attitude is completely ridiculous. When did JP ever have an attitude problem? He's been a great leader and team guy.

[ublinkwescore]

First of all 990 yards is basically....1000 yards. Secondly, you're missing the point. The Bills Oline had as much to do with Willis's production as anything. Could LT or Barry Sanders have gotten more last year behind that Bills Oline? Probably, but I don't think anyone would confuse Willis or Marshawn with LT and Barry. Lynch could turn out to be a better back then Willis, but we don't know that yet. Basically the Oline kept you from knowing if it was Willis lack of effort or lack of blocking. It sure doesn't take some fans here long to throw the Oline out there when disciussing how hindered JP was last year, but you don't see that same argument with Willis. If you can make excuses for JP's lack of production behind the Oline in 06, don't ignore it when discussing other areas of the Offense. It's all I'm saying. And like I said, attitude has been an issue with both JP and Willis.

Let me just start off by saying 1000 yard seasons aren't crap anymore nowadays.

you get 1,300+ yards a season, and you're a good back - you get 1,450+ you're a bonafide probowler.

[RockStar36]

Let me just start off by saying 1000 yard seasons aren't crap anymore nowadays.

you get 1,300+ yards a season, and you're a good back - you get 1,450+ you're a bonafide probowler.

That's the understatement of the day. 1000 yards is definitely not the benchmark for running backs anymore.

[duhbilz]

That's the understatement of the day. 1000 yards is definitely not the benchmark for running backs anymore.


Name a RB in the league that could have gotten 1400 yards in Buffalo in 06....no chance. It all depends on the system you're in. Michael Westbrook is a very good RB, many consider him one of the best RB's in the league yet last year was his first 1000 yard season. It's not always the RB, but the system and talent around them that determine their total success. Willis was just 10 yards shy of his third consecutive 1000 yards season. Considering the offense he was in and the system, he did well in buffalo...as far as his numbers are concerned.

[Philagape]

Willis SUCKED. His effort SUCKED. His running SUCKED. He SUCKED all on his own, and he is responsible for his SUCKING. No matter if the line had sucked or not, Willis still would have SUCKED.

And it's BRIAN Westbrook, and the reason BRIAN Westbrook ran for 1,000 yards for the first time is because he got more than 200 carries for the first time. Bad example. In fact, Westbrook is a good example of why 1,000 yards rushing means jack squat.

[Pinkerton Security]

Name a RB in the league that could have gotten 1400 yards in Buffalo in 06....no chance. It all depends on the system you're in. Michael Westbrook is a very good RB, many consider him one of the best RB's in the league yet last year was his first 1000 yard season. It's not always the RB, but the system and talent around them that determine their total success. Willis was just 10 yards shy of his third consecutive 1000 yards season. Considering the offense he was in and the system, he did well in buffalo...as far as his numbers are concerned.

so is travis henry a god or something for running for over 1400 yds in a similar system, similar O-line a couple years back?

[duhbilz]

so is travis henry a god or something for running for over 1400 yds in a similar system, similar O-line a couple years back?


Was the OC and Oline the same in 06 as it was when Henry was in Buffalo?

[Pinkerton Security]

some would say both were worse.

[Jan Reimers]

Willis SUCKED. His effort SUCKED. His running SUCKED. He SUCKED all on his own, and he is responsible for his SUCKING. No matter if the line had sucked or not, Willis still would have SUCKED.
Are you implying that Willis sucked?

[Philagape]

Are you implying that Willis sucked?

got the hint eh?

[duhbilz]

got the hint eh?
You're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree with your opinion. Willis had an attitude issue not a talent issue.

[Philagape]

Willis had an attitude issue not a talent issue.

So what? What's the point of talking about talent if he doesn't get the most out of it? That's like saying my cable gets 200 channels but is out half the time. Most NFL busts are very talented but not right in the head.