Spikes, Fletcher, Clements and McGahee!

[Patrick76777]

I know most people are getting excited about the season. And contrary to what a few others think, it's totally acceptable to be excited and have high expectations at the start of a new season.

But others think we have no shot because of the losses of Spikes, Fletcher, Clements and McGahee!.

Then it hit me last night. Although these guys that we got rid of had a ton of talent, we won NOTHING with them. And they let us down every time we had a big game.

Is it really a loss when we get rid of 4 guys that couldn't win and we replace them with younger/hungrier players?

Where was Clements against J-ville in the 04 opener?
Spikes has played maybe 8 games in the past 2 years and had 1 Sack and 1 forced fumble all of last year.

Maybe Fletcher and Spikes could have tackled Willie Parker in week 17 vs. Pittsburgh or tackle Young at the end of the first half on Christmas Eve last year.

Why did Willis not get the 4th and 1 in New England in week 1 last year and then not seem to care about it.

In fact, Willis didn't care about anything.

Spikes has never been on a good team.

And it's perfectly normal and acceptable to have loved these guys and to have stuck up for these guys while they were here, but then to see their faults after they leave.

Let's not act like we lost Joe Montana, Deion Sanders, Emmitt Smith and Charles Haley. (Guys that won just about everywhere they were).

We gave these guys chance after chance after chance to come thru for us and they failed each time.

Esp. in 2004, when we actually had a good team and these guys couldn't get it done.

Out with the old and in with the new! I'm ready to move on.

And that's a 180 from the start of the off-season when I wanted to resign our own guys.

and again, it's OK to change your mind.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Re: Spikes, Fletcher, Clements and McGahee!

I have a man crush on you Pat.

[RockStar36]

Re: Spikes, Fletcher, Clements and McGahee!



Excellent post!

I feel the loss of Clements will be hard to deal with but the others won't be a big deal, or at least not as big of a deal as some people think. But even with all his talent, you bring up a great point. We didn't win **** with him here so is it really going to be that huge of a loss?

[Patrick76777]

Re: Spikes, Fletcher, Clements and McGahee!

I have a man crush on you Pat.

I'm getting pumped for some football!

Monday - My tickets came in
Tuesday - Watched highlights of the night practice
Wednesday - Team yearbook


In the next 8 days we'll have Thurman going into the hall and an actual game.

[El Guapo]

Re: Spikes, Fletcher, Clements and McGahee!

Just a thought, but do you think Marv letting the veterans and "leaders" go was a move to bring new team leadership to the forefront? In particular, Evans and Lossman. Now, I realize these losses were on D, but I am talking about team leadership, on the field and in the locker room. Some of the "new" guys, by default, must become the leaders.

Just a thought.

[OpIv37]

Re: Spikes, Fletcher, Clements and McGahee!

I know most people are getting excited about the season. And contrary to what a few others think, it's totally acceptable to be excited and have high expectations at the start of a new season.

But others think we have no shot because of the losses of Spikes, Fletcher, Clements and McGahee!.

Then it hit me last night. Although these guys that we got rid of had a ton of talent, we won NOTHING with them. And they let us down every time we had a big game.

Is it really a loss when we get rid of 4 guys that couldn't win and we replace them with younger/hungrier players?

Where was Clements against J-ville in the 04 opener?
Spikes has played maybe 8 games in the past 2 years and had 1 Sack and 1 forced fumble all of last year.

Maybe Fletcher and Spikes could have tackled Willie Parker in week 17 vs. Pittsburgh or tackle Young at the end of the first half on Christmas Eve last year.

Why did Willis not get the 4th and 1 in New England in week 1 last year and then not seem to care about it.

In fact, Willis didn't care about anything.

Spikes has never been on a good team.

And it's perfectly normal and acceptable to have loved these guys and to have stuck up for these guys while they were here, but then to see their faults after they leave.

Let's not act like we lost Joe Montana, Deion Sanders, Emmitt Smith and Charles Haley. (Guys that won just about everywhere they were).

We gave these guys chance after chance after chance to come thru for us and they failed each time.

Esp. in 2004, when we actually had a good team and these guys couldn't get it done.

Out with the old and in with the new! I'm ready to move on.

And that's a 180 from the start of the off-season when I wanted to resign our own guys.

and again, it's OK to change your mind.

you're making a faulty assumption: different isn't necessarily better. "Younger and hungrier" does not mean more talented, and I have a hard time believing anyone in the NFL is hungrier than Takeo Spikes (well, maybe Sam Adams but that's a different kind of hunger). Ellison and DiGiorgio were part of last year's crap-tacular D as well, and the DL isn't any better (well maybe slightly IF McCargo steps up, but that's far from a definite).

I agree that we won't miss Willis but the D is a different story.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Re: Spikes, Fletcher, Clements and McGahee!

I'm getting pumped for some football!

Monday - My tickets came in
Tuesday - Watched highlights of the night practice
Wednesday - Team yearbook


In the next 8 days we'll have Thurman going into the hall and an actual game.

The only one we'll miss is Clements, simply because we have no one to replace him.

[HAMMER]

Re: Spikes, Fletcher, Clements and McGahee!

you're making a faulty assumption: different isn't necessarily better. "Younger and hungrier" does not mean more talented, and I have a hard time believing anyone in the NFL is hungrier than Takeo Spikes (well, maybe Sam Adams but that's a different kind of hunger). Ellison and DiGiorgio were part of last year's crap-tacular D as well, and the DL isn't any better (well maybe slightly IF McCargo steps up, but that's far from a definite).

I agree that we won't miss Willis but the D is a different story.

How many times are you going to say the same damn thing? We know what you think.

[OpIv37]

Re: Spikes, Fletcher, Clements and McGahee!

How many times are you going to say the same damn thing?

Until people listen-obviously he didn't. But I don't want to get into this debate again- I'm trying to keep this football related.

[mchurchfie]

Re: Spikes, Fletcher, Clements and McGahee!

I know most people are getting excited about the season. And contrary to what a few others think, it's totally acceptable to be excited and have high expectations at the start of a new season.

But others think we have no shot because of the losses of Spikes, Fletcher, Clements and McGahee!.

Then it hit me last night. Although these guys that we got rid of had a ton of talent, we won NOTHING with them. And they let us down every time we had a big game.

Is it really a loss when we get rid of 4 guys that couldn't win and we replace them with younger/hungrier players?

Where was Clements against J-ville in the 04 opener?
Spikes has played maybe 8 games in the past 2 years and had 1 Sack and 1 forced fumble all of last year.

Maybe Fletcher and Spikes could have tackled Willie Parker in week 17 vs. Pittsburgh or tackle Young at the end of the first half on Christmas Eve last year.

Why did Willis not get the 4th and 1 in New England in week 1 last year and then not seem to care about it.

In fact, Willis didn't care about anything.

Spikes has never been on a good team.

And it's perfectly normal and acceptable to have loved these guys and to have stuck up for these guys while they were here, but then to see their faults after they leave.

Let's not act like we lost Joe Montana, Deion Sanders, Emmitt Smith and Charles Haley. (Guys that won just about everywhere they were).

We gave these guys chance after chance after chance to come thru for us and they failed each time.

Esp. in 2004, when we actually had a good team and these guys couldn't get it done.

Out with the old and in with the new! I'm ready to move on.

And that's a 180 from the start of the off-season when I wanted to resign our own guys.

and again, it's OK to change your mind.

[Patrick76777]

Re: Spikes, Fletcher, Clements and McGahee!

you're making a faulty assumption: different isn't necessarily better. "Younger and hungrier" does not mean more talented,

And Different isn't necessarily worse and "Younger and hungrier" does not mean less talented.

the point is, and I love Spikes, but he has never won ANYTHING! He may come off as being hungry, but maybe he's not and maybe he's been one of the guys causing the problems, and maybe, just maybe, a 31 year old LB 22 months removed from an Achilles injury, doesn't have the same skills as a 23 year old in his third year out of Oregon State who makes plays every single day in training camp.

I think we sometimes rate players too much on past performace. 3 years ago, Spikes was one of the top 5 LB's in the NFL, At this point, I'll take my chances with Keith Ellison.

[OpIv37]

Re: Spikes, Fletcher, Clements and McGahee!

And Different isn't necessarily worse and "Younger and hungrier" does not mean less talented.

the point is, and I love Spikes, but he has never won ANYTHING! He may come off as being hungry, but maybe he's not and maybe he's been one of the guys causing the problems, and maybe, just maybe, a 31 year old LB 22 months removed from an Achilles injury, doesn't have the same skills as a 23 year old in his third year out of Oregon State who makes plays every single day in training camp.

I think we sometimes rate players too much on past performace. 3 years ago, Spikes was one of the top 5 LB's in the NFL, At this point, I'll take my chances with Keith Ellison.

If guys are washed up and overpriced, there is some wisdom in replacing them. However, I'm not convinced that we've done that yet. The D wasn't any better last year when DiGiorgio and Ellison were on the field.

I can see the argument on Fletch cuz he was a FA and got way more than he's worth at this point- I still think losing him will hurt for a while til Poz gets acclimated but it's probably better than the alternative. When it comes to Spikes, he was so great before his injury that I think he deserved one last crack at recovery. To me, it seems hypocritical that guys like Wire, Reed, Price, Shaud, Everett, etc- who have been consistently mediocre for years- get chance after chance after chance, yet a formerly great player like Spikes doesn't get another chance.

As far as Clements- I agree he's overrated and I'm glad we didn't pay him. The guy was selfish and streaky at best, but again, no one on our roster has proven to be equal or better and McGee has struggled at CB (he got benched last year so this is fact, NOT my opinion).

And the DL wasn't fixed at all, which certainly won't help the young LB's improve.

Also, I have a big problem with this:

And it's perfectly normal and acceptable to have loved these guys and to have stuck up for these guys while they were here, but then to see their faults after they leave.

It's pretty much the definition of homerism. Players have flaws when they're here, and a player leaving doesn't automatically make him suck. I guess it's acceptable to think that way if your goal is blind loyalty, but don't expect to have any credibility with analysis or predictions.

[Patrick76777]

Re: Spikes, Fletcher, Clements and McGahee!

I agree with much of what you have to say, save for 2 points.

a. Spikes. He was making a ton of money. 5 years ago (or however long it was) we paid a huge back loaded contract for one of the best LB's in the league. This year we would have been at the end of that back loaded contract for a ton of money for a guy who probably isn't one of the best 30 LB's in the league. Plus, rumors abound of him being one of the locker room problems and the possibibility that he no longer wanted to be here. The same thing he pulled in Cincy before he left and they became one of the best and exciting teams in the league. Coincidence? Maybe.

b. The Homer thing! I still don't understand why this bothers you so much. I'm a huge homer and I love it. Makes it fun. Sure it ends up leaving me let down more often then not, but it's friggen football. I think being a homer is the best!
An example, I loved Brady Quinn, but during the draft when it looked like Miami was about to take him I was thinking that he's not going to be any good. Then, Cleveland takes him and I love the Browns and now I'm thinking about Quinn taking them to the top.

It's totally Homer! and I love it.

Here's to being a Homer!

[Tatonka]

Re: Spikes, Fletcher, Clements and McGahee!

nice post, pat.

i cant believe i just typed that.

[more cowbell]

Re: Spikes, Fletcher, Clements and McGahee!

TAKEO SPIKES

DID NOT

WANT TO PLAY

FOR THE BILLS

THIS SEASON