McCargo out indefinitely

[Philagape]

Off the AP wire at work .....

PITTSFORD, N.Y. (AP) - Bills reserve defensive tackle John McCargo is out indefinitely after straining an abdominal muscle during a training camp practice Friday.
Coach Dick Jauron couldn't estimate how much practice time McCargo will miss, saying only "We hope it won't be long." It's not clear when McCargo was hurt, but he continued watching practice from the sideline with his stomach heavily wrapped.

[Mudflap1]

(sigh)

[HAMMER]

Oh God, here comes Op with the predictions of the franchises end being near in 3...2......1......
Wait, it's 5:30, he is probably stuck in traffic, or something else to ***** about.

[PECKERWOOD]

Oh God, here comes Op with the predictions of the franchises end being near in 3...2......1......

Seriously, how many times is the guy going to get injured though? This is ATLEAST the 3rd one in the past year. If you were one of the Bills fans (like me) that thought McCargo was a reach in the 1st this doesn't neccessarily make you feel any better about the guy.

[DraftBoy]

This guy has to learn to be healthy or else he'll never get a chance to help us.

[THATHURMANATOR]

This guy does seem to be freaking Fragile...

[OpIv37]

Is it too early to call him injury prone yet? 3 injuries in 3 years.....

[RockStar36]

I'm not one to overreact but I would agree with Op, assuming he posts what I think he will.

This guy needs to stay healthy real quick. It's starting to get old.

[Earthquake Enyart]

PITTSFORD, N.Y. (AP) - Bills reserve defensive tackle John McCargo is out indefinitely after straining an abdominal muscle during a training camp practice Friday. He was last seen wrestling a giant ogre for the last hot dog.
Coach Dick Jauron couldn't estimate how much practice time McCargo will miss, saying only "We hope it won't be long." It's not clear when McCargo was hurt, but he continued watching practice from the sideline with his stomach heavily wrapped.

:fat: :eek:

[OpIv37]

Oh God, here comes Op with the predictions of the franchises end being near in 3...2......1......
Wait, it's 5:30, he is probably stuck in traffic, or something else to ***** about.

McCargo was our only "upgrade" to a DL that was 28th against the run. He missed a lot of conditioning time with his surgery in the off-season and now he's missing more conditioning time in camp. If you don't see this as a problem, I guess you were satisfied with last year's DL and don't really care about winning.

Seriously, how can you NOT be concerned about the prospect of Tim Anderson getting more reps?

[PECKERWOOD]

Is it too early to call him injury prone yet? 3 injuries in 3 years.....

Thought it was 3 in 1 year? I'm not counting his collegiate career either. Either way, if there were any recent Bills player that I thought was going to be a bust, this would be it.

[Stewie]

Agreed. Because the DL are the only players who are allowed to stop the run. Also, field position and the score have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the other team can afford to run the ball the first place.

:rolleyes:

[OpIv37]

Thought it was 3 in 1 year? I'm not counting his collegiate career either. Either way, if there were any recent Bills player that I thought was going to be a bust, this would be it.

it's at least 2 in less than a year, and he had to have a second surgery for the one that happened during the season last year. There may have been 3- I can't recall if he was injured in pre season at all last year, and he was injured his final year of college as well. Either way, it's a minimum 2 injuries in a year and 3 in 3 years.

[mikemac2001]

Op we all see it as a concern but what can we do ....Can i call up Polian or holgrem and start some trade talks

[OpIv37]

Agreed. Because the DL are the only players who are allowed to stop the run. Also, field position and the score have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the other team can afford to run the ball the first place.

:rolleyes:

Other than Poz we have the same LB's as last year as well, and in our defensive system DT's are supposed to rush the passer as well. Did you not see what happened last year with our rotation of Tripplett, Anderson, Williams and Jefferson? Well, guess what? It's gonna happen again. Even if McCargo plays, he's missed so much conditioning and practice time already so it's unreasonable to expect too much.

[PECKERWOOD]

McCargo was our only "upgrade" to a DL that was 28th against the run. He missed a lot of conditioning time with his surgery in the off-season and now he's missing more conditioning time in camp. If you don't see this as a problem, I guess you were satisfied with last year's DL and don't really care about winning.

Seriously, how can you NOT be concerned about the prospect of Tim Anderson getting more reps?

Not sure, I think McCargo maybe a bust and Kyle Williams was an absolute steal. So I guess the two kind of offset each other. It's nice to think that Williams has another year of elite strength & conditioning under his belt. I'm excited to see what Tripplett and Williams can do as our #1 DT tandem.

[PECKERWOOD]

Other than Poz we have the same LB's as last year as well, and in our defensive system DT's are supposed to rush the passer as well. Did you not see what happened last year with our rotation of Tripplett, Anderson, Williams and Jefferson? Well, guess what? It's gonna happen again. Even if McCargo plays, he's missed so much conditioning and practice time already so it's unreasonable to expect too much.

You're forgetting to factor in the experience that our team has gained from last season. You have to atleast consider that last years rookies will be much better from the start this year.

[John Doe]

This injury does not appear to be season-ending.

It may only last a few days.

[PECKERWOOD]

This injury does not appear to be season-ending.

It may only last a few days.

True, but it seems to be one after another. He was just knicked up a few days ago as well. I'm worried about his toughness.

[raphael120]

Listenin to WGR right now and theyre sayin that McCargo was on his butt alot during these practices, and against backup O-linemen at that...pair that with the coaches yelling at him alot lately too...it's just not looking too good for this kid.

I think he's going to be the Mike Williams of the d-line.

[Philagape]

Listenin to WGR right now and theyre sayin that McCargo was on his butt alot during these practices, and against backup O-linemen at that...pair that with the coaches yelling at him alot lately too...it's just not looking too good for this kid.

I think he's going to be the Mike Williams of the d-line.

Gotta agree for now. It's especially disappointing because we traded up for him. He's using up his passes pretty quickly

[John Doe]

Listenin to WGR right now and theyre sayin that McCargo was on his butt alot during these practices, and against backup O-linemen at that...pair that with the coaches yelling at him alot lately too...it's just not looking too good for this kid.

I think he's going to be the Mike Williams of the d-line.

It's possible that he will be a bust.

It's possible that he will be a great player.

Bruce Smith did not set the league on fire his first year or so.

[raphael120]

Yeah...all I know is that Kyle Williams better build off of last season and Triplett must step it up too, because if they don't, you'll be seeing the same crap you did last year. Stopping the run is going to be difficult and our offense is going to have its plate full trying to keep up with being scored on so much.

[raphael120]

It's possible that he will be a bust.

It's possible that he will be a great player.

Bruce Smith did not set the league on fire his first year or so.
Bruce Smith also didn't come in with a "injury-prone" tag on him either.

So far, the scouts are right.

[John Doe]

Bruce Smith also didn't come in with a "injury-prone" tag on him either.

So far, the scouts are right.

How many injuries did McCargo have in college?

[raphael120]

How many injuries did McCargo have in college?

He's had that foot broken before.

He re-broke the same foot he broke in college.

look it up.

[John Doe]

He's had that foot broken before.

He re-broke the same foot he broke in college.

look it up.


Bruce Smith also didn't come in with a "injury-prone" tag on him either.

So far, the scouts are right..

Your contention was that he had a history of being "injury prone" coming out of college. This would imply that he had several major injuries in his college career.

You have, so far, cited only one major college injury.

[HiHat31]

I think we should simply take as a "bonus" any good play we get out of this guy this year. Injuries, rust, lack of experience, doesn't add up to high expectations for me. Gonna have to hope Kyle and Tripp step it up, with help from the LB's, in the run defense.

GO BILLS!

[DynaPaul]

He's officially one of the guys in that beer commerical who sits in the locker room faking injuries so he can collect a paycheck and drink his beer.

[Mitchy moo]

Eat another burger, fat assh.

[OpIv37]

This injury does not appear to be season-ending.

It may only last a few days.

maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal if the guy didn't already miss most of the off-season conditioning because of his foot injury- with only a month left, every day counts.

[Night Train]

He's got 5 weeks until a real game to get well.

[Bling]

He missed 11 games last year, and 5 games his final year of college. Didn't he also play with Mario Williams and Manny Lawson? I guess he could benefit playing next to Schobel.

[HHURRICANE]

I guess the "neg nancies" were "realistically" concerned about McCargo and our DL.

How many want to keep giving Marv "high fives" for converting our 6th rounder to a 5th for a player that we desperately needed to sign?

[Philagape]

I guess the "neg nancies" were "realistically" concerned about McCargo and our DL.

How many want to keep giving Marv "high fives" for converting our 6th rounder to a 5th for a player that we desperately needed to sign?

If our run D sucks again this year, then cash to cap is to blame.

[HAMMER]

Oh God, until we know the severity of the injury let's lighten up people. Everything is such a federal case with some of you. The sky is falling, the sky is falling. DRAMA.

[Bling]

I guess the "neg nancies" were "realistically" concerned about McCargo and our DL.

How many want to keep giving Marv "high fives" for converting our 6th rounder to a 5th for a player that we desperately needed to sign?

Good point. If I was a Bills fan, and this turns out bad about McCargo, I'd think you were an idiot for giving high fives for the "5th round convert" now.

[alohabillsfan]

Tank Johnson is available and Simon should be soon, would not mind either or both as insurance polic, hell get both and I would love our d-line (if simon is healthy and can play, Johnson cannot play until game 9)!

[ParanoidAndroid]

Walker was never going to sign here and I doubt we would have gotten a 4th for Spikes with his questionable health. So, even though Marv was wrong about Walker, he got the
This is not atypical of training camp to see injuries during the first few days of pads.
The knee jerk reaction to start speculating that McCargo is a bust is also not atypical of this message board.
Now, if he's out for a significant amount of time, it will be hard for him to contribute this year, but a strained ab muscle is not a huge deal and I would suspect he will be back before long.

[OpIv37]

Tank Johnson is available and Simon should be soon, would not mind either or both as insurance polic, hell get both and I would love our d-line (if simon is healthy and can play, Johnson cannot play until game 9)!

Tank is semi-available- he's suspended for something in the neighborhood of 8 games. So even if we got him, we'd need someone else to fill in in the meantime.

[OpIv37]

Walker was never going to sign here and I doubt we would have gotten a 4th for Spikes with his questionable health. So, even though Marv was wrong about Walker, he got the
This is not atypical of training camp to see injuries during the first few days of pads.
The knee jerk reaction to start speculating that McCargo is a bust is also not atypical of this message board.
Now, if he's out for a significant amount of time, it will be hard for him to contribute this year, but a strained ab muscle is not a huge deal and I would suspect he will be back before long.

He's already been out a significant amount of time- every day he misses just makes it that much more significant. The guy had off-season surgery and missed the OTA's- he was rehabbing when he should have been conditioning. Everyone keeps talking about how guys make such a huge jump from year 1 to year 2- well the reason for that is experience on the field and a full off-season of conditioning. McCargo has neither and it's reached the point where we should be concerned about him even if he is ready to go when the season starts.

As far as Walker- why do people keep dodging the question of WHY he didn't want to be here? When players don't want to come to/stay in Buffalo. something is wrong.

[Wys Guy]

Oh God, here comes Op with the predictions of the franchises end being near in 3...2......1......
Wait, it's 5:30, he is probably stuck in traffic, or something else to ***** about.

NO! This is a great sign.

:D

Actually, like it makes a difference. The guy's a stiff anyway. Just because no one here believes it doesn't alter it.

[OpIv37]

NO! This is a great sign.

:D

Actually, like it makes a difference. The guy's a stiff anyway. Just because no one here believes it doesn't alter it.

I don't want to believe it but his performance on the field and his nagging injuries are making reality harder to ignore.... well, at least for me. I can't say the same for a few others....

[Wys Guy]

Seriously, how many times is the guy going to get injured though? This is ATLEAST the 3rd one in the past year. If you were one of the Bills fans (like me) that thought McCargo was a reach in the 1st this doesn't neccessarily make you feel any better about the guy.

And he's been such a force when he has been on the field. Where are we going to find a DT now that can make tackles after an 8-yard gain.

Talk about quandaries.

:D

[Wys Guy]

I don't want to believe it but his performance on the field and his nagging injuries are making reality harder to ignore.... well, at least for me. I can't say the same for a few others....

The whole thing's inconsequential to me. He's not even going to start even if he can stay healthy. He brought so incredibly little last year in the half-dozen or so games he did play.

...which would have been fine had he been a 4th rounder, but when a team trades up into the 1st to get you, unwisely I might add, then a little bit more than taking two or three seasons to get your #2 together is expected.

Except by some here of course.

[PECKERWOOD]

Sign Tank Johnson, even with his 8 game suspension he will probably play more than McCargo.

[Mitchy moo]

Sign Tank Johnson, even with his 8 game suspension he will probably play more than McCargo.

Sad but true.

[ParanoidAndroid]

He's already been out a significant amount of time- every day he misses just makes it that much more significant. The guy had off-season surgery and missed the OTA's- he was rehabbing when he should have been conditioning. Everyone keeps talking about how guys make such a huge jump from year 1 to year 2- well the reason for that is experience on the field and a full off-season of conditioning. McCargo has neither and it's reached the point where we should be concerned about him even if he is ready to go when the season starts.

As far as Walker- why do people keep dodging the question of WHY he didn't want to be here? When players don't want to come to/stay in Buffalo. something is wrong.

I realize all the above about McCargo. None of that information is difficult to extract and process upon reading the headline of the thread. However, concern is one thing, declaring it a serious problem is another.

On Walker:
Manning didn't want to go to San Diego....they must have major problems. His reason is irrelevant. We really have not had trouble signing free agents. He is an exception.

[HHURRICANE]

Oh God, until we know the severity of the injury let's lighten up people. Everything is such a federal case with some of you. The sky is falling, the sky is falling. DRAMA.


He was getting man-handled before this injury. He needs every day that he can get.

Sorry but how many weeks do we have left before the beginning of the season?

[ParanoidAndroid]

The whole thing's inconsequential to me. He's not even going to start even if he can stay healthy. He brought so incredibly little last year in the half-dozen or so games he did play.

...which would have been fine had he been a 4th rounder, but when a team trades up into the 1st to get you, unwisely I might add, then a little bit more than taking two or three seasons to get your #2 together is expected.

Except by some here of course.

Comon....you know that it is rare to get immediate impact from a rookie DT even from the first round. He was noticably improving just before the injury as well.
This menagerie of realists fronted by you and Op would have some relevancy if you guys didn't constantly prophesy doom.

[OpIv37]

I realize all the above about McCargo. None of that information is difficult to extract and process upon reading the headline of the thread. However, concern is one thing, declaring it a serious problem is another.

On Walker:
Manning didn't want to go to San Diego....they must have major problems. His reason is irrelevant. We really have not had trouble signing free agents. He is an exception.
are Moulds, Spikes, Adams and McGahee exceptions too?

I think maybe you need to work on your definition of "serious problem". We were 28th against the run. We run a defensive system where DT's are expected to rush the passer, and I can't remember the exact number but it was something pathetically low like 6 sacks last year.

Every time I point out that we did nothing to address the DL, I get barraged with responses about McCargo being back. Well, guess what? He didn't get much experience on the field last year, he spent most of the off-season laid up from surgery, he missed OTA's, and now he's injured again and missing camp.

Going into this season with the same DL as last year, or with the only difference being McCargo who hasn't had an opportunity to practice or condition, IS a serious problem.

[HHURRICANE]

are Moulds, Spikes, Adams and McGahee exceptions too?

I think maybe you need to work on your definition of "serious problem". We were 28th against the run. We run a defensive system where DT's are expected to rush the passer, and I can't remember the exact number but it was something pathetically low like 6 sacks last year.

Every time I point out that we did nothing to address the DL, I get barraged with responses about McCargo being back. Well, guess what? He didn't get much experience on the field last year, he spent most of the off-season laid up from surgery, he missed OTA's, and now he's injured again and missing camp.

Going into this season with the same DL as last year, or with the only difference being McCargo who hasn't had an opportunity to practice or condition, IS a serious problem.

Op, you're obviously not a true fan. To be a true fan you have to be optimistic beyond all reality.

Go back and look at the posts from last year. It's pretty funny. The biggest *****ers once the season got rolling were the "homers."

[mayotm]

Hey "Wysman" and OP. You two should start your own message board. You can both post all you want about how the Bills suck. You can also tell each other how brilliant you are and that everybody that doesn't share your opinion is a moron. In addition, you can both cheer for your predicictions of doom so you can tell us all "I told you so". Sadly, you both would rather the Bills suck (as you predicit) instead of them having a good season. Congratulations! You guys are awesome fans!

[OpIv37]

Hey "Wysman" and OP. You two should start your own message board. You can both post all you want about how the Bills suck. You can also tell each other how brilliant you are and that everybody that doesn't share your opinion is a moron. In addition, you can both cheer for your predicictions of doom so you can tell us all "I told you so". Sadly, you both would rather the Bills suck (as you predicit) instead of them having a good season. Congratulations! You guys are awesome fans!

Yeah, that's right, I follow the team hoping they suck :rolleyes:

I wouldn't be so pissed off about this stuff if I wanted us to suck. I don't know what's so hard to comprehend about that. I want this team to win and that's why I ***** about everything/everyone that's not helping us win. I don't know where you people get this crazy idea that being a fan means supporting every move and every player no matter how bad they are, and completely ignoring anything negative about the team. News flash: when the team is 7-9 and hasn't won a playoff game in a decade, there are a lot more negatives than positives.

BTW, I was right about a lot of **** last year and I never said "I told you so" until people started getting on my ass again this year. I take no glory in losing, even if it means I'm right.

And no one ever said that the people who disagree are morons. They're not (well, a few are, but most aren't). They're just people who would rather not think about the fact that the team is probably going to suck because it ruins their dreams of grandeur. Not being able to face reality doesn't mean a person is a moron- only that they lack the ability to step back and look at things objectively.

You think I want McCargo to suck? I want McCargo to be the Pat Williams replacement we've needed for three years. But I'm realistic enough to know he isn't going to do that by nursing injuries on the bench all the time. I guess, in your dream world, players with 6 games of experience, no conditioning and chronic injuries can play at a high level. But that's not what happens in the real world.

[Philagape]

For people who want the Bills to suck, these have been the glory years!

[Goobylal]

Op, you're obviously not a true fan. To be a true fan you have to be optimistic beyond all reality.

Go back and look at the posts from last year. It's pretty funny. The biggest *****ers once the season got rolling were the "homers."
And then who were completely silent AFTER the season? Yep, the "negs.":oops:

[OpIv37]

And then who were completely silent AFTER the season? Yep, the "negs.":oops:

yeah, we were all completely satisfied with 7-9 :rolleyes:

Your post is not a good representation of what actually happened.

[Goobylal]

It's not a matter of being "satisfied," although I could say that I was encouraged by what I saw, given the new regime and the results of 2005. But when you hear "we'll be the worst team in the league" and instead see that the Bills were still in playoff contention until the end of week 16, you realize that the "negs" were way off base.

[mayotm]

Yeah, that's right, I follow the team hoping they suck :rolleyes:

I wouldn't be so pissed off about this stuff if I wanted us to suck. I don't know what's so hard to comprehend about that. I want this team to win and that's why I ***** about everything/everyone that's not helping us win. I don't know where you people get this crazy idea that being a fan means supporting every move and every player no matter how bad they are, and completely ignoring anything negative about the team. News flash: when the team is 7-9 and hasn't won a playoff game in a decade, there are a lot more negatives than positives.

BTW, I was right about a lot of **** last year and I never said "I told you so" until people started getting on my ass again this year. I take no glory in losing, even if it means I'm right.

And no one ever said that the people who disagree are morons. They're not (well, a few are, but most aren't). They're just people who would rather not think about the fact that the team is probably going to suck because it ruins their dreams of grandeur. Not being able to face reality doesn't mean a person is a moron- only that they lack the ability to step back and look at things objectively.

You think I want McCargo to suck? I want McCargo to be the Pat Williams replacement we've needed for three years. But I'm realistic enough to know he isn't going to do that by nursing injuries on the bench all the time. I guess, in your dream world, players with 6 games of experience, no conditioning and chronic injuries can play at a high level. But that's not what happens in the real world.In "my world" I understand what an opinion is. In "your world", you throw around your opinions like they are facts. "News Flash", they aren't.

I'm abundantly aware of this team's short comings. I simply don't need you to point them out in every single post. As a lifelong fan, I take offense to your constent *****ing about this team. I don't even necessarily disagree with all of your points. It just gets so tiresome.

Believe me, I'm as sick of this team losing as you are. However, I'm not going to get bent out of shape about every little thing during friggin' training camp. In this case, you have a right to be concerned. McCargo's health is a huge concern. But, when you ***** about every single thing, you lose creditiblity.

You have an uncanny knack of pissing on every thread. Hence, nobody takes you seriously. It's just OP complaining again.

[duhbilz]

Hey "Wysman" and OP. You two should start your own message board. You can both post all you want about how the Bills suck. You can also tell each other how brilliant you are and that everybody that doesn't share your opinion is a moron. In addition, you can both cheer for your predicictions of doom so you can tell us all "I told you so". Sadly, you both would rather the Bills suck (as you predicit) instead of them having a good season. Congratulations! You guys are awesome fans!
I'm not sure I understand why people get upset at someone that see's a problem(s) with the team and points it out. If no one talks about it, is it no longer a problem? I see the Bills defense a long ways from being competitive right now. Just to many holes. The Goods news could be the offense being complete and next year the Bills can focus on the defense in both the draft and FA's.

[Goobylal]

I'm not sure I understand why people get upset at someone that see's a problem(s) with the team and points it out. If no one talks about it, is it no longer a problem?
It's fine when it happens once or twice. When it happens EVERY DAY, it's ridiculous.

Mostly I take issue with Op's viewpoint that, forgetting that McCargo exists, the DL won't be ANY better than last year, when they had a whole new scheme for everyone, a rookie playing a lot, and added a DE after the season started. That's just silly. Ive admitted that Poz will be a downgrade initially from Fletcher, but will make Fletcher a memory sooner rather than later, while we disagree wildly on Ellison, although I have the coaches on my side.

[Mitchy moo]

while we disagree wildly on Ellison, although I have the coaches on my side.

we all hope your right.

[mayotm]

I'm not sure I understand why people get upset at someone that see's a problem(s) with the team and points it out. If no one talks about it, is it no longer a problem? I see the Bills defense a long ways from being competitive right now. Just to many holes. The Goods news could be the offense being complete and next year the Bills can focus on the defense in both the draft and FA's.Not really a matter of somebody "pointing out a problem". The issue I have is with people that only see the negatives and never see the positives.

[Goobylal]

we all hope you right.
I loved what I saw out of Ellison. The kid missed all but one of the OTA's, got 3rd team reps (i.e. almost none) in TC, and when pressed into action in the first game of the season, played well. And he played better than Spikes did, despite being a rookie.

Now with a full off-season to add strength, conditioning, flexibility, and knowledge, and getting starter's reps, he should be even better. Sure his weight (230#) is a concern, but he played a ton last year as a 223# rookie and is play was just as strong at the end as in the beginning.

[duhbilz]

It's fine when it happens once or twice. When it happens EVERY DAY, it's ridiculous.

Mostly I take issue with Op's viewpoint that, forgetting that McCargo exists, the DL won't be ANY better than last year, when they had a whole new scheme for everyone, a rookie playing a lot, and added a DE after the season started. That's just silly. Ive admitted that Poz will be a downgrade initially from Fletcher, but will make Fletcher a memory sooner rather than later, while we disagree wildly on Ellison, although I have the coaches on my side.

I hear ya, but still there are far more positive threads and posts then negative ones, so actually it's a nice change of pace to read. People don't have to agree good or bad, so I don't see the need to get upset. But I guess that just me.

[duhbilz]

Not really a matter of somebody "pointing out a problem". The issue I have is with people that only see the negatives and never see the positives.
I don't know, I have seen OP post both sides of the argument. Although it may seem as though it's only negative, it's because the problems persist. That should slowly change as Marv continues to improve the talent. Sometimes even the young talnet just isn't cut out for the NFL for one reason or another so small setbacks occur. I'm sure if the D steps up and plays above OP's expectations he will be the first to admit he was wrong and be happy to do so cause you know he'd rather the Bills be a top team in the NFL and have nothing to complain about then to be one of the lesser teams and have things to complain about..

[Mitchy moo]

OP's better on gameday, if we win.

[Goobylal]

Who isn't?

[jmb1099]

Ok so I went to BB.com and listened to the Jauron interview and he said they expect McCargo back rather quickly and didn't seem too concerned about it.

[Mitchy moo]

Ok so I went to BB.com and listened to the Jauron interview and he said they expect McCargo back rather quickly and didn't seem too concerned about it.

Can we drink some more kool-aid now?

[jmb1099]

Can we drink some more kool-aid now?
You can drink whatever you like I suppose, but I think I'll wait a day or three before declaring the end of the world as we know it.

[Mitchy moo]

You can drink whatever you like I suppose, but I think I'll wait a day or three before declaring the end of the world as we know it.

I just made a post to address that, http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=2055563#post2055563

[ParanoidAndroid]

are Moulds, Spikes, Adams and McGahee exceptions too?

I think maybe you need to work on your definition of "serious problem". We were 28th against the run. We run a defensive system where DT's are expected to rush the passer, and I can't remember the exact number but it was something pathetically low like 6 sacks last year.

Every time I point out that we did nothing to address the DL, I get barraged with responses about McCargo being back. Well, guess what? He didn't get much experience on the field last year, he spent most of the off-season laid up from surgery, he missed OTA's, and now he's injured again and missing camp.

Going into this season with the same DL as last year, or with the only difference being McCargo who hasn't had an opportunity to practice or condition, IS a serious problem.

Spikes was losing favor to a 6th round pick and all his friends were gone, Adams and Moulds led a locker room revolt against Mularkey and they simply had to go. And are you really going to use McGahee as an example? Buffalo just wasn't big enough for his ego. Also of note is that none of these guys were free agents. They were either released or traded. Spikes and Adams came here as free agents and they were happy to do so. Players come and go.

And I do not need to redefine anything. The run defense is a problem, but this thread and those comments about concern and "a serious problem" were about one player that some people are nearly ready to declare a bust.

Why am I still in this thread? I'm just wasting my time.

[OpIv37]

Spikes was losing favor to a 6th round pick and all his friends were gone, Adams and Moulds led a locker room revolt against Mularkey and they simply had to go. And are you really going to use McGahee as an example? Buffalo just wasn't big enough for his ego. Also of note is that none of these guys were free agents. They were either released or traded. Spikes and Adams came here as free agents and they were happy to do so. Players come and go.

And I do not need to redefine anything. The run defense is a problem, but this thread and those comments about concern and "a serious problem" were about one player that some people are nearly ready to declare a bust.

Why am I still in this thread? I'm just wasting my time.

See, this is another problem- no one is ever a bust. We let crap stick around on our team for years. Is McCargo a bust? God, I hope not, but he certainly hasn't impressed so far and every day of camp he misses just increases the chances of him being a bust.

But hey, let's just give him chance after chance after chance like we did with Rob Johnson, Mike Williams, Drew Bledsoe, Coy Wire, Josh Reed, Peerless Price, Kevin Everrett... it's a winning strategy!

It's too early on McCargo yet... but if you can't see the red flags, I don't know what to tell you other than to take off the red and blue colored glasses.

[Jaybird]

it would be nice if he could stay healthy.

[OpIv37]

It's not a matter of being "satisfied," although I could say that I was encouraged by what I saw, given the new regime and the results of 2005. But when you hear "we'll be the worst team in the league" and instead see that the Bills were still in playoff contention until the end of week 16, you realize that the "negs" were way off base.

I can't speak for other people, but I never said we'd be the worst team in the league last year.

[FlyingDutchman]

Every time I point out that we did nothing to address the DL, I get barraged with responses about McCargo being back. Well, guess what? He didn't get much experience on the field last year, he spent most of the off-season laid up from surgery, he missed OTA's, and now he's injured again and missing camp.


No, its just that youve beaten the same subjects over and over and over and over again, with the same points over and over and over and over again. Nobody here is thrilled about our DL. We know we suck. Some people were optimistic that experience in Williams, and possibly Mccargo in the mix (pre injury) could help turn around the DL some, and improve. Some just dont like to piss and moan about the same stuff constantly.

[PECKERWOOD]

No, its just that youve beaten the same subjects over and over and over and over again, with the same points over and over and over and over again. Nobody here is thrilled about our DL. We know we suck. Some people were optimistic that experience in Williams, and possibly Mccargo in the mix (pre injury) could help turn around the DL some, and improve. Some just dont like to piss and moan about the same stuff constantly.

I don't recall Op starting this thread, he simply joined in. I am with Op on this one however. If any recent Bills draft pick is on his way to being a bust I would say that player would be McCargo. He has done NOTHING to impress me whatsoever AT ALL. He has been injured constantly and even when he was healthy I cannot think of a single play that he was involved in, that's how bad he has been so far.

[HAMMER]

No, its just that youve beaten the same subjects over and over and over and over again, with the same points over and over and over and over again. Nobody here is thrilled about our DL. We know we suck. Some people were optimistic that experience in Williams, and possibly Mccargo in the mix (pre injury) could help turn around the DL some, and improve. Some just dont like to piss and moan about the same stuff constantly.

This is it completely, he is like a broken record. The same thing over and over and over. I really think it is a mental issue of some kind, that could be the only explanation for constantly repeating himself. We all know we need better d-line play, we ALL KNOW OP. Now STFU and find something else to do.

[BillsFever21]

Lets see, McCargo missed the last 5 games of his senior year in college. He played sparingly in 6 games in his rookie season. That means he has only played in 6 of the last 21 games that he has been on a football roster.

Now this training camp comes and he is injured again. Not to mention even after the entire 6 games he did play last year he was terrible in but this camp he has been terrible and the coaches have to stay on his case to even finish a play out.

If none of this shows a player that may have injury problems and lack of production then I don't know what is. And some wanna dream that he is just going to step in this year and be the key to our success on our DL. Even with only playing 6 out of the last 21 games and being laid up with injuries the rest of the time he will be our secret weapon even without any conditioning or even experience playing in almost the last two seasons.

[HHURRICANE]

And then who were completely silent AFTER the season? Yep, the "negs.":oops:


Funny, but I predicted 7-9 before the season began in 2006. Won several bets over it right on this site. I think there is such thing as being "realistically" optimistic.

I had the Bills going 9-7 in 2007 based on a healthy McCargo and Walker playing here. I shouldn't be concerned?

[Goobylal]

Funny, but I predicted 7-9 before the season began in 2006. Won several bets over it right on this site. I think there is such thing as being "realistically" optimistic.

I had the Bills going 9-7 in 2007 based on a healthy McCargo and Walker playing here. I shouldn't be concerned?
Do you consider yourself a "neg?"

I know a lot of them predicted the Bills would finish last year no better than 2005. I have Wys pegged for less than 8 wins, even though he refuses to bet me on this (although Bling did :dance: ).

[HHURRICANE]

Do you consider yourself a "neg?"

I know a lot of them predicted the Bills would finish last year no better than 2005. I have Wys pegged for less than 8 wins, even though he refuses to bet me on this (although Bling did :dance: ).

Not a "neg" but dehinately a "realist."

[casdhf]

At least it isn't his feet.

[ParanoidAndroid]

See, this is another problem- no one is ever a bust. We let crap stick around on our team for years. Is McCargo a bust? God, I hope not, but he certainly hasn't impressed so far and every day of camp he misses just increases the chances of him being a bust.

But hey, let's just give him chance after chance after chance like we did with Rob Johnson, Mike Williams, Drew Bledsoe, Coy Wire, Josh Reed, Peerless Price, Kevin Everrett... it's a winning strategy!

It's too early on McCargo yet... but if you can't see the red flags, I don't know what to tell you other than to take off the red and blue colored glasses.

You're making it sound as if I am giving all these other players a pass. I never said anything about those players.
You keep trying to change the discussion when it was only about McCargo.
I commented only on McCargo and all I said was that it is too early to make declarations. Is there concern for John McCargo? Yes. Is it a serious problem? Potentially, but not yet.
I see red flags, but I do not immediately pull the blanket over a player's head as soon as I see them.
So, since you have dropped the silly "players don't want to come here" argument and now you have finally admitted that it's too early on McCargo, I wonder what in the heck you have been arguing about.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Ok so I went to BB.com and listened to the Jauron interview and he said they expect McCargo back rather quickly and didn't seem too concerned about it.

Thank you jmb.

But hey.....we should let people have their funeral for McCargo anyway. they can start a thread of doom and gloom and I will gladly stay out of it.

[patmoran2006]

Seriously, how many times is the guy going to get injured though? This is ATLEAST the 3rd one in the past year. If you were one of the Bills fans (like me) that thought McCargo was a reach in the 1st this doesn't neccessarily make you feel any better about the guy.
Great post

[OpIv37]

You're making it sound as if I am giving all these other players a pass. I never said anything about those players.
You keep trying to change the discussion when it was only about McCargo.
I commented only on McCargo and all I said was that it is too early to make declarations. Is there concern for John McCargo? Yes. Is it a serious problem? Potentially, but not yet.
I see red flags, but I do not immediately pull the blanket over a player's head as soon as I see them.
So, since you have dropped the silly "players don't want to come here" argument and now you have finally admitted that it's too early on McCargo, I wonder what in the heck you have been arguing about.

McCargo not practicing IS a serious problem for our DL and the D as a whole. I don't know why you can't see that. Whether or not it's too early on McCargo isn't the point- the point is what McCargo being out means for the defense: bad things, and not in the Bruce Smith way.

[Mitchy moo]

McCargo not practicing IS a serious problem for our DL and the D as a whole. I don't know why you can't see that. Whether or not it's too early on McCargo isn't the point- the point is what McCargo being out means for the defense: bad things, and not in the Bruce Smith way.

Dr. Doom, lol.

[BillsFever21]

That is just too funny that some people are trying to brag about another losing season and acting like some stayed away from the board because they were so embarrased that we were wrong about the victorious season.

I predicted 6 wins for the Bills. Was off by one game. 7-9 is not a good season. That just show how content people have gotten with losing when we improve two entire games from the year before and still have a losing season but they consider it a great run.

[njsue]

Can you say BUST!!!

[Michael82]

Off the AP wire at work .....

PITTSFORD, N.Y. (AP) - Bills reserve defensive tackle John McCargo is out indefinitely after straining an abdominal muscle during a training camp practice Friday.
Coach Dick Jauron couldn't estimate how much practice time McCargo will miss, saying only "We hope it won't be long." It's not clear when McCargo was hurt, but he continued watching practice from the sideline with his stomach heavily wrapped.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



I'm sorry, but this is just ****ing hilarious. :lmao:

[Wys Guy]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



I'm sorry, but this is just ****ing hilarious. :lmao:

Why is that so funny to you? Seriously.

Aren't you and the few remaining hopefuls entirely reliant on McCargo to make one of the bigger differences this year? What now, Jefferson's going to all of a sudden step in and make an impact now? LOL

I'd be concerned if I were the "Ring Around the Rosey" posse. :D

[Wys Guy]

That is just too funny that some people are trying to brag about another losing season and acting like some stayed away from the board because they were so embarrased that we were wrong about the victorious season.

I predicted 6 wins for the Bills. Was off by one game. 7-9 is not a good season. That just show how content people have gotten with losing when we improve two entire games from the year before and still have a losing season but they consider it a great run.

I state that we would win 3 - 5 games but also fully qualified that with statements that we would definitely drop a pair to the Fins in that analysis as one of the few teams that I mentioned in losses. The entire league was way off, downward, about how good the Fins would be last year.

Regardless, wins schmins, it's one indicator. I find it entirely amusing that people talk about 7 wins regardless of the circumstances of a couple of them, along with absurd notions that we were even remotely competitive in "close games lost by three points or less" other than in the final score. My last piece discusses the details of all of that. Meanwhile, games against scrubs (Houston, Green Bay, Jax) that we were lucky to win, don't seem to matter.

Meanwhile, things such as finishing dead last, by a significant margin I might add, in plays run, 30th in ToP ahead of only Detroit and Tenn, dead last in 1st downs per game, 2nd to last in 3rd down %, 28th/29th in rushing and rushing YPC defensively, among many other things typically, as well as obviously, in the gutter, appear to carry absolutely no meaning.

I utterly fail to understand the logic. The ones that deserve this team are, ironically, the ones supporting the morass of competency in terms of management and coaching of it.

[Philagape]

along with absurd notions that we were even remotely competitive in "close games lost by three points or less" other than in the final score.

Yeah, the score doesn't count.

[Michael82]

This means that we are closer than ever to having Tim Anderson make the team again..... :scared: :nervous:

[Mad Bomber]

This means that we are closer than ever to having Tim Anderson make the team again..... :scared: :nervous:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

[OpIv37]

This means that we are closer than ever to having Tim Anderson make the team again..... :scared: :nervous:

he was going to make it anyway, unfortunately. Even with McCargo we don't even have enough bodies for the DT rotation without Anderson.

[ParanoidAndroid]

McCargo not practicing IS a serious problem for our DL and the D as a whole. I don't know why you can't see that. Whether or not it's too early on McCargo isn't the point- the point is what McCargo being out means for the defense: bad things, and not in the Bruce Smith way.

Wow....did you read my posts?
1)I stated that the run defense was a problem.
2)The jury is still out on whether or not McCargo will help which equals concern. A few missed practices = concern.
If the jury is still out on McCargo, how can we declare it a serious problem?

Dammit....now I have to argue semantics?

[PECKERWOOD]

This JUST IN. McCargo didn't practice today because of a cracked finger nail. Oh my, poor guy. Get well soon God, I mean Tedy Bruschi.

[ParanoidAndroid]

he was going to make it anyway, unfortunately. Even with McCargo we don't even have enough bodies for the DT rotation without Anderson.

Unless Jefferson beats him out. So, far in camp he's been stealing second team reps more and more. That's what I remember reading anyway.

[Al13]

i dunno why you all keep bashing OpIv37 for beeing pessimistic, you guys couldn´t stop the run last year did nothing to fix that and now you face maroney , thomas jones and ronnie brown twice a year. i would be concerned too

[Romes]

Well, since McCargo was back at practice last night...does anyone want to admit they may have over-reacted?

:ontome:

[ZacGriffi~82]

McCargo definately has some serious talent. He just needs to play, so pray he doesn't get seriously hurt.

[madness]

Well, since McCargo was back at practice last night...does anyone want to admit they may have over-reacted?

:ontome:

...but he's injury prone!

[Tatonka]

Well, since McCargo was back at practice last night...does anyone want to admit they may have over-reacted?

:ontome:

are you sure the sky isnt falling..

it doesnt matter anyway.. he missed 2 days of practice.. the whole run defense will suck now because of it.. we have no chance of winning.. we're the worst team in the league!!!

[Meathead]

just because i say the bills will lose every game without mccargo and leave town in the middle of the night doesnt mean im overreacting

[Goobylal]

I'm LMMFAO at this thread. Unfortunately it's what we've come to expect here at BZ. We've accepted ludicrosity.

[OpIv37]

Well, since McCargo was back at practice last night...does anyone want to admit they may have over-reacted?

:ontome:

nope.

Every time I say that the DL is exactly the same, people say "no- we've got McCargo back." This team has a lot riding on him as the only "improvement" to the DL.

Well, McCargo missed 10 games last year. He had off-season surgery and lost a ton of conditioning time. He missed mini camp and OTA's. Now, he's missed more practicing/conditioning time. (yeah, I know, I already said this- but apparently no one listened).

Seriously, how can anyone expect this guy to be ready? And how can anyone not be concerned that he's injury prone?

It's reached the point where we can't reasonably expect McCargo to be able to contribute when the season starts. So the DL is the same as last year. And we saw how well that worked....

[justasportsfan]

Die thread Die!!!!!!!!!!!

[Philagape]

That's all, folks! Until next time!

[naugem]

I'm LMMFAO at this thread. Unfortunately it's what we've come to expect here at BZ. We've accepted ludicrosity.

Well, I did get something good out of this thread.
"Ludicrosity", that's a nice word I didn't know :p:

[Bill Brasky]

This guy does seem to be freaking Fragile...

The DL's answer to Rob Johnson...

[Goobylal]

McCargo's injury-prone because he broke the same bones last year as he did in college, and suffered an abdominal strain that caused him to miss a whole day of practice? Okay.

Ludicrosity I tell you!

[Generalissimus Gibby]

So the question now is with his miraculous recovery, because nobody around here ever reacts, is McCargo the football equivelant of Jesus Christ or Lazurus.

[Mr. Pink]

Tedy Bruschi is God...so if McCargo is Jesus...then McCargo must be Bruschi's son.

If that's the case, things are looking on the up and up around here!

[Goobylal]

Man, what a bust Couch was.