Hargrove Arrested

[CLo_in_Roch]

Here's a link to the story: http://www.rnews.com/TopStory_2004.cfm?cmd=top&rnews_story_type=18







Bills Defensive End Arrested

<TABLE width=287 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=tenblack>by R News Staff
file photo
Published Aug 05, 2007 </TD><TD align=right width=100></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
A Buffalo Bills player is in jail, accused of striking a Rochester police officer during a confrontation on St. Paul St. early Sunday morning.
Police arrested Buffalo Bills defensive end Anthony Hargrove, a fourth year player with the team.
He's charged with harassment, criminal mischief and resisting arrest.
Rochester Police initially responded to reports of fighting on St. Paul St. just after 2 a.m. Sunday.
They arrived on scene to find 300 to 400 people on the sidewalk.
That's when police say they used pepper spray to disperse the crowd and Hargrove was unintentionally sprayed.
Officers say Hargrove then struck a police sergeant in the face, breaking his glasses.
When police tried to subdue the player, they say his brother Terrence jumped in.
Police say when Anthony Hargrove resisted arrest, he was pepper sprayed again.
Both were taken into custody.
Anthony Hargrove is in jail on $1,100 cash bail.
Terrence Hargrove is charged with obstructing governmental administration and resisting arrest. Buffalo Bills players reported to training camp in the Rochester area on July 25.

[clumping platelets]

Broke curfew as well :shakeno:

[shelby]

:curse:

[chernobylwraiths]

Well there goes that "no Bills have been in trouble with the law" streak we had going for a couple years.

[mayotm]

Not good.

[clumping platelets]

Hargrove :negrep:

[Mad Bomber]

:madcloud:

[Goobylal]

There's no practice today so no curfew. And he was pepper sprayed inintentionally. Not his fault.

[mybills]

dumbass

[njsue]

What a stunod! :shakeno:

[Mitchy moo]

It'll get dismissed, you get sprayed with that crap you are disoriented. See doom and gloom thread.

[dannyek71]

While I feel bad if he was unintentially sprayed, I think it is common sense that you do not strike a police officer.

[camelcowboy]

cut him

[eyedog]

I thought Hargrove was hurt and has been sitting out practice ?
I guess his hammy is good to go for the club scene.

[Turf]

What was he doing on St Paul St, that's the most troubling question. Not a high class area by any means. Dumb F***.

[raphael120]

I think we can all agree there have been more than a few times that we've all wanted to punch a police officer in the face...hahaha

[SABURZFAN]

i'd be pissed off too if the pigs pepper sprayed me.

[Tatonka]

CJ Ah You is a happy guy this morning.. he might have just made the team.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I bet Ah You paid the cop to spray Hargrove.

[Meathead]

over/under on days until hargrove cut: 2

[ZacGriffi~82]

I highly, highly doubt he gets cut. The most he gets for this is community service.

[mikemac2001]

Funny thing was he was also talked to by rochester police because he owes about 96k in child support in florida....they talked to him at practice a few days back

it was him dick jaruon and a cop had to sit down and have a little discussion

[streetkings01]

I been pepper sprayed before and it aint pretty!

[Earthquake Enyart]

They should have hit him with the tazer. Dumbass.

[HHURRICANE]

Is it too late to sign Darwin Walker?!

[Night Train]

He just cut himself.

Sharp move.

[GarnOFreak]

There's no practice today so no curfew. And he was pepper sprayed inintentionally. Not his fault.

Agreed. Article itself said he was unintentionally sprayed and lashed out after that. Bad timing? And his brother was just coming to his aid? Not nearly as bad as some of the other news we've read from other teams.

[GarnOFreak]

maybe we can trade him to Tampa or the Giants? they both have openings at DE....(sarcasm)

[duhbilz]

I highly, highly doubt he gets cut. The most he gets for this is community service.

Punching a cop will get him more then just community service, more then likely he will lose of a few games and the checks that go with it.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Why was he in a crowd of 300+ people at 2:00 AM on St Paul St.? Who was fighting? Is this a case of wrong place, wrong time and a violent reaction to getting sprayed, or is there more to the story. This disappoints me less than the child support he owes.
I used to like this guy. :ill:

[historypete]

You would figure a guy who is hurt and hasn't practiced in a few days would be in his Dorm sleeping and getting healthy, not running around in the middle of a melee in the middle of the morning. I think stupidity alone may get him cut.

On the question of whether he broke curfew or not, I beleive he did. I think they have a curfew in place every night (around 11 or 12). They do have walk-throughs on Sunday that are not open to the public so I would think the curfew remains in place.

[Uncle Jesse]

Cut his no paying child support ass. We dont need guys like this on our team. Hes not even that good.

[!Papacrunk!]

stuff happens I guess to even the most angelic of teams. do you guys think he would get cut since depth at the defensive line isn't the strongest?

[ParanoidAndroid]

I think we need to wait to find out more. Will he publicly apologize and be a man about all this, especially his child support, or will he try to make excuses?

[patmoran2006]

He's going to get cut.. Book it.

[CLo_in_Roch]

stuff happens I guess to even the most angelic of teams. do you guys think he would get cut since depth at the defensive line isn't the strongest?
He's not good enough to start, but situationally, he did fit in well. I think we need to see what comes out in time. There have been a lot of "bicycle cops" out on the St. Paul district lately, and these cops are in shorts, shirts and helmets, not exactly the typical uniform. This is not an intention to excuse his behavior, but in a crowded situation, where anyone can purchase pepper spray.......... it's a tough call. It's too soon to judge. He does have potential.

[cocamide]

Damnit, this pisses me off.

[!Papacrunk!]

so since the word thug has been used quite often around here to describe other players in similar situations, doesn't this situation qualify him as a thug now? Granted knee jerk reactions happen, so I guess we should wait and see when the details come about,

[Wys Guy]

What was he doing on St Paul St, that's the most troubling question. Not a high class area by any means. Dumb F***.

That was my first thought as well Turf. I haven't lived in Rochester for years, but it's definitely gotten worse down there, not at all better. It's clearly a bad area.

Either way, doesn't really sound like one of Levy's character kinda guys. He had some minor issues in St. Louis too.

Otherwise, I just don't know whether to laugh or cry. Good thing I'm only 2 1/2 hours from Morgantown and WVU this year. At least I can see some decent football live w/o a half or full day drive.

[Wys Guy]

He just cut himself.

Sharp move.

LOL

Yeah, and we're sure making strides this preseason, eh.

[Goobylal]

LOL

Yeah, and we're sure making strides this preseason, eh.
Haha, ain't it great?

Feel free to make that bet with me ANYTIME you want, Wys. I'll be waiting...and waiting...and waiting...and...

[Dr. Lecter]

That was my first thought as well Turf. I haven't lived in Rochester for years, but it's definitely gotten worse down there, not at all better. It's clearly a bad area.

Either way, doesn't really sound like one of Levy's character kinda guys. He had some minor issues in St. Louis too.

Otherwise, I just don't know whether to laugh or cry. Good thing I'm only 2 1/2 hours from Morgantown and WVU this year. At least I can see some decent football live w/o a half or full day drive.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, because the Bills will be 3-13, just like last year.

It is a shame you will miss out on a young team that will start making major strides this year. Your loss, not ours.

[Goobylal]

:rolleyes:

Yeah, because the Bills will be 3-13, just like last year.
Wys thinks the Bills will have fewer than 7 wins. But he's not willing to put his money where his mouth is. It's funny/telling that he's nowhere to be found when it comes time to accept my bet, but when there's bad news, he's RIGHT there.

BTW, I'll be pissed if Hargrove gets cut over some stupid cops' actions. They're as much at fault for carelessly pepper-spraying everyone.

[ublinkwescore]

this will get dismissed once he files a civil suit against the police for them unintentionally spraying him with Mace - that qualifies as assault under color of authority in California.

[Goobylal]

this will get dismissed once he files a civil suit against the police for them unintentionally spraying him with Mace - that qualifies as assault under color of authority in California.
Most likely. And apparently Hargrove "pushed" the officer in the face and didn't strike him. That's far less of assault than being sprayed with pepper spray.

[!Papacrunk!]

Wys thinks the Bills will have fewer than 7 wins. But he's not willing to put his money where his mouth is. It's funny/telling that he's nowhere to be found when it comes time to accept my bet, but when there's bad news, he's RIGHT there.

BTW, I'll be pissed if Hargrove gets cut over some stupid cops' actions. They're as much at fault for carelessly pepper-spraying everyone.

so punching out a cop is the cops' fault? well at least he didn't bite them lol. On the other side, I would imagine that pepper SPRAY tends to travel so it's hard to be precise with it

[Devin]

Wow this happens on any other team and the players are pieces of trash and should be cut.

Our 9th string DE nails a cop, and its "the cop shouldnt have sprayed him".

Only in Buffalo I swear.

[!Papacrunk!]

Wow this happens on any other team and the players are pieces of trash and should be cut.

Our 9th string DE nails a cop, and its "the cop shouldnt have sprayed him".

Only in Buffalo I swear.

so what you're POTENTIALLY saying, something that I may be reading into, is that SOME people have the tendancy to be hyprocrites

[Goobylal]

If Hargrove had been involved in the fight and pepper-sprayed as a result, I wouldn't be so lenient. And the fact that he shoved the police officer and didn't hit him makes this FAR from an egregious crime against humanity. The only people who got hurt in this case was a pair of eyeglasses and Hargrove from being pepper-sprayed.

[Wys Guy]

Haha, ain't it great?

Feel free to make that bet with me ANYTIME you want, Wys. I'll be waiting...and waiting...and waiting...and...

What bet Gooby?

O/U at 6?

I've offered that up to anyone here via e-mail. I don't make wagers in public forums. I trust that that's not difficult to understand.

So feel free to join the rest that talk big but don't ante up. Thus far, after repeated invites on this board, only Lechter and justafan have taken me up. It took just over a month to finally learn how to send an e-mail, but otherwise at least he ante'd up.

Regardless, the O/U is 6 in Vegas. You likey? You know how to get a hold of me.

[Wys Guy]

Wys thinks the Bills will have fewer than 7 wins.

Sure I am. I've merely made the stipulation that we take this out of the public forum.

So I'll tell ya what, when I get your e-mail, and put a read receipt on it, and we consumate a wager, I'll come back here and post how you decided to ante up in stead of just talk big.

Fair enough or is sending an e-mail too arduous for you?

;)

[Goobylal]

I've asked you 3 times already over the past month and this is the first time you've responded in any fashion. I guess better late than never.

BTW, Bling openly took me up on the offer and we bet ZB's and loser leaves the forum for 2 months. Why the need to do it in e-mail? And why not by PM?

And I'd rather not give out my e-mail. I trust that that's not difficult to understand.

[Bling]

This guy is a thug. With the new Sheriff in town, I wouldn't be surprised if Hargrove gets 4 game suspension. Good riddance, the Bills should become the Billfelons.

Sound familiar guys?


Every team has their "thugs".

[Bling]

I've asked you 3 times already over the past month and this is the first time you've responded in any fashion. I guess better late than never.

BTW, Bling openly took me up on the offer and we bet ZB's and loser leaves the forum for 2 months. Why the need to do it in e-mail? And why not by PM?

And I'd rather not give out my e-mail. I trust that that's not difficult to understand.

That second half had to do with if the Bills swept the Dolphins, or Dolphins swept the Bills. I'm not leaving unless the Bills sweep the Dolphins.

[Goobylal]

This guy is a thug. With the new Sheriff in town, I wouldn't be surprised if Hargrove gets 4 game suspension. Good riddance, the Bills should become the Billfelons.

Sound familiar guys?


Every team has their "thugs".
Sorry but if Porter didn't get ANY suspension for jumping and injuring Levi Jones, Hargrove's getting nothing.

[!Papacrunk!]

Sorry but if Porter didn't get ANY suspension for jumping and injuring Levi Jones, Hargrove's getting nothing.

i think Bling's blatant sarcastic over reaction was to prove a point

[patmoran2006]

Wow this happens on any other team and the players are pieces of trash and should be cut.

Our 9th string DE nails a cop, and its "the cop shouldnt have sprayed him".

Only in Buffalo I swear.
I was thinking the exact same thing, good post.
Though I will admit I am surprised (in a good way) that the majority of people on here are indeed coming down hard on him, and many are even saying he should be cut.

I was waiting for nearly everyone to make up some kind of excuse because its a Buffalo Bill that's in trouble. If Hargrove was a Bengal, phin or jet we'd be making fun of him to no end.

But again surprisingly, the majority of the posts on this subject have been unbiased.

[patmoran2006]

If Hargrove had been involved in the fight and pepper-sprayed as a result, I wouldn't be so lenient. And the fact that he shoved the police officer and didn't hit him makes this FAR from an egregious crime against humanity. The only people who got hurt in this case was a pair of eyeglasses and Hargrove from being pepper-sprayed.
Something tells me if Hargrove was a member of any other team in the NFL and the exact same thing happened you wouldn't be so "lenient"

As far as the only people who got hurt being Hargrove and a pair of glasses, you're off-base. The entire organization and its reputation is hurt by this inexcusable crap.

[Bling]

i think Bling's blatant sarcastic over reaction was to prove a point

:up:

[Goobylal]

Something tells me if Hargrove was a member of any other team in the NFL and the exact same thing happened you wouldn't be so "lenient."
Wrong. I don't go jumping on every bad report. Take a look at the "Chris Chambers charged with DWI" thread and I never said anything about suspending him. I even said I understood saying it happens a lot in society in general.

[duhbilz]

Sorry but if Porter didn't get ANY suspension for jumping and injuring Levi Jones, Hargrove's getting nothing.

Jones wasn't a cop, not that cops are better then anyone else, but there are just things you don't do. Punching a cop is one of those things.

[Goobylal]

The report is that he didn't punch the cop but "pushed him in the face" and broke his glasses, but the cop wasn't injured.

[ublinkwescore]

the guy plays an aggressive sport where he gets to take his anger out on people, and often probably trys to get angry before each game - getting maced - is probably a great way to anger someone like that - and when someone who is angered and used to venting - it's almost habit for him I'd imagine.

I think when he goes to court, he should tell the judge and the cop that he is sorry, and it will not happen again, and he will not pursue a civil suit in exchange for any charges being dropped.

Let's remember, there are two sides to every story and this is Hargrove's first incident with us.

I think if the charges get dropped, he should still face some team/league discipline - like a 2 game (regular season) suspension and fines. But I sincerely doubt this was as serious as many of you are making it out to be since his bail was only at a measily $1,100 dollars. I've had friends get locked up on bail much, MUCH higher than that, and it didn't seem like much worse charges that they were facing.

[Bling]

the guy plays an aggressive sport where he gets to take his anger out on people, and often probably trys to get angry before each game - getting maced - is probably a great way to anger someone like that - and when someone who is angered and used to venting - it's almost habit for him I'd imagine.

:rofl: You're a sick person. I have a psychological need to dominate women when they're most vulnerable. It's a habit being the strong guy I am. You think it's ok too?

[tampabay25690]

It'll get dismissed, you get sprayed with that crap you are disoriented. See doom and gloom thread.

I was sprayed by a bouncer in Buffalo once and it was NOT GOOD.......

[HiHat31]

According to reports, Hargrove was NOT sprayed by police. He was hit with the pepper by the bouncer. Then he left, came back, and got into it again at the bar. The police then asked him to leave, and he pushed the cop.

He'll be cut by Monday afternoon. And should be.

1. Gotta just walk away
2. Don't be drunk in public. (and driving to boot)
3. Don't shove a cop. Just disperse.
4. Pay your child support.

Too much disruption to the team, if you keep him around now. Let him go.

Go BILLS!

[DraftBoy]

According to reports, Hargrove was NOT sprayed by police. He was hit with the pepper by the bouncer. Then he left, came back, and got into it again at the bar. The police then asked him to leave, and he pushed the cop.

He'll be cut by Monday afternoon. And should be.

1. Gotta just walk away
2. Don't be drunk in public. (and driving to boot)
3. Don't shove a cop. Just disperse.
4. Pay your child support.

Too much disruption to the team, if you keep him around now. Let him go.

Go BILLS!

links? If true then he will definitely be gone, not that he shouldnt already, but these actions are unexcusable and hopefully he is suspended.

[DraftBoy]

the guy plays an aggressive sport where he gets to take his anger out on people, and often probably trys to get angry before each game - getting maced - is probably a great way to anger someone like that - and when someone who is angered and used to venting - it's almost habit for him I'd imagine.

I think when he goes to court, he should tell the judge and the cop that he is sorry, and it will not happen again, and he will not pursue a civil suit in exchange for any charges being dropped.

Let's remember, there are two sides to every story and this is Hargrove's first incident with us.

I think if the charges get dropped, he should still face some team/league discipline - like a 2 game (regular season) suspension and fines. But I sincerely doubt this was as serious as many of you are making it out to be since his bail was only at a measily $1,100 dollars. I've had friends get locked up on bail much, MUCH higher than that, and it didn't seem like much worse charges that they were facing.


:rofl: there is the reply Ive been waiting for :rofl: only Bills fans

[Devin]

:rofl: there is the reply Ive been waiting for :rofl: only Bills fans

You ain't kiddin, good god.

I had to read that post twice to make sure he was being serious.

[dolphan117]

He just cut himself.

Sharp move.
LOL, nice.

And IMO anyone who touches a cop deserves whatever he gets, including pepper spray to the face.

[Michael82]

Wow! That just really blows. What a ****ing moron! I liked watching him pump the fans up too during the kickoffs. :mad:


:bigwave: Hargrove

[Wys Guy]

I've asked you 3 times already over the past month and this is the first time you've responded in any fashion. I guess better late than never.

BTW, Bling openly took me up on the offer and we bet ZB's and loser leaves the forum for 2 months. Why the need to do it in e-mail? And why not by PM?

And I'd rather not give out my e-mail. I trust that that's not difficult to understand.

LOL

Gee, that's funny, b/c I haven't seen one of them. If I had, I'd have made the same exact offer to you, shoot it to me via e-mail.

Well, here we are, and here you are. The offer has formally been made with one stipulation, that we do it via e-mail. Yet, I still haven't received anything, ... over three hours later and I know as a fact you've now seen it.

Sorry Goob, but I'm not making a wager with a moniker. My offer stands, but we'll do it via names and addresses and via e-mail so I can't be accused of anything later on in the season regarding unclear and confusing posts on some message board thread with 30 other people creating a bunch of noise in the background.

I understand however, that once you come out of the big talk arena that all of a sudden the beliefs actually don't seem the same when you can't hurl barbs at supposedly fellow fans that don't guzzle down the kool-aid like you do.

It's not too much to ask, truly. It isn't. You've wasted more time crying about not having it your way than it would have taken to shoot me a note with you real name (entirely cofidentially BTW) and saying that you'll take the O on the season O/U for the Bills at 6.

Cut and paste if you like. You seem like an internet savvy individual. By my calculation it should take you all of about 30 seconds to do all that and mozy on over with your mouse to click "send."

Then I'll reply and you'll see how smooth the whole process can be. Paying me will take far longer.

[Wys Guy]

Wow! That just really blows. What a ****ing moron! I liked watching him pump the fans up too during the kickoffs. :mad:


:bigwave: Hargrove

His loss will be meaningless.

[chernobylwraiths]

LOL, nice.

And IMO anyone who touches a cop deserves whatever he gets, including pepper spray to the face.

Unless you are Tim McGraw or Kenny Chesney.

[chernobylwraiths]

Wow this happens on any other team and the players are pieces of trash and should be cut.

Our 9th string DE nails a cop, and its "the cop shouldnt have sprayed him".

Only in Buffalo I swear.

Come on Dev, you know this happens everywhere. There are homers and then there are homers. Most thinking Bills fans don't condone this type of action.

[DraftBoy]

Come on Dev, you know this happens everywhere. There are homers and then there are homers. Most thinking Bills fans don't condone this type of action.


Very well said, not know who are the thinkers the homers or the realists?

[HHURRICANE]

Hargrove is an idiot but I hope we don't cut him. We need all the help we can get.

Tim Anderson needs to get out and party more.

[CLo_in_Roch]

Hargrove ain't getting cut, it'll be a couple of games suspension max.
He'll claim he was introduced at a club.... i.e. "Ya'll show some love to Anthony Hargove from the Buffalo Bills..." and he was scared someone was going to steal the cash he had on him......blah, blah, blah,....... and the he'll make an appearance at the Rochester Police's Locust Union's fundraiser......................................................................................

[Mad Bomber]

Hargrove is an idiot but I hope we don't cut him. We need all the help we can get.

Tim Anderson needs to get out and party more.
:rofl:

[Devin]

Hargrove is an idiot but I hope we don't cut him. We need all the help we can get.

Tim Anderson needs to get out and party more.

:rofl:

[YardRat]

Bummer. I was really hoping Hargrove would contribute this year without any transgressions.

[!Papacrunk!]

it is threads and the some of the reactions in here that makes the stay well worth it. i could care less if someone doesn't like my team, just don't be a hypocrite when it comes to stuff like this IMO.

To those that stayed true to their responses that mirror when other players have gotten in trouble in the past, kudos to you. to the others--thanks for the laughs.

[PECKERWOOD]

Somebody sprays me with pepper spray and there going to get punched in the face too. I don't have a problem with what Hargrove did. It's not like he instigated the whole escopade.

[ServoBillieves]

Damn it....

[ParanoidAndroid]

I was sprayed by a bouncer in Buffalo once and it was NOT GOOD.......

Did you sue the bar? If not, and it wasn't that long ago, you should see a lawyer. That is, unless you were the aggressor. A civil court might kick some ass for you.
Bouncers should not be using this stuff.

The US Army concluded in a 1993 Aberdeen Proving Ground study that pepper spray could cause "Mutagenic effects, carcinogenic effects, sensitization, cardiovascular and pulmonary toxicity, neurotoxicity, as well as possible human fatalities. There is a risk in using this product on a large and varied population" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray

[Meathead]

Somebody sprays me with pepper spray and there going to get punched in the face too. I don't have a problem with what Hargrove did. It's not like he instigated the whole escopade.
posts like this including many others in this thread have me convinced pepper spray is equivalent to ****** gas

[Erik vonDarkmoor]

I have to chuckle at some of the responses and the opinions offered by some of the posters. I'll probably see you some night at East and Alexander. Based on some of your comments, I probably already have. Word to the wise, don't touch a cop, plain and simple. If there is a fight, walk away and don't get involved. Don't try and debate your friend's innocence, your drunken self will join your friend in a free ride downtown. BTW, word is that the Bills staff has already spoke to the Chief, and Hargrove's on the chopping block.

[PECKERWOOD]

posts like this including many others in this thread have me convinced pepper spray is equivalent to ****** gas

funny

I've been on the wrong side of the law before. I've seen how corrupt and unprofessional they can be at times. Isn't self-defense legal? Hargroves response was natural and if I got sprayed in the face for doing absolutely nothing wrong, I would be upset as well. Are you saying that you WOULDN'T be?

[PECKERWOOD]

I have to chuckle at some of the responses and the opinions offered by some of the posters. I'll probably see you some night at East and Alexander. Based on some of your comments, I probably already have. Word to the wise, don't touch a cop, plain and simple. If there is a fight, walk away and don't get involved. Don't try and debate your friend's innocence, your drunken self will join your friend in a free ride downtown. BTW, word is that the Bills staff has already spoke to the Chief, and Hargrove's on the chopping block.


Word to the wise, don't touch a cop, plain and simple. If there is a fight, walk away and don't get involved. Don't try and debate your friend's innocence, your drunken self will join your friend in a free ride downtown. BTW, word is that the Bills staff has already spoke to the Chief, and Hargrove's on the chopping block.

I don't like cops AT ALL. (have family members that are/were police officers as well.. ) They could get away with murder if they wanted to. Most of the time they are people that like to walk loudly. They want to feel important. Crooked ****ers hiding behind a flashlight and a badge.. Err, bad memories.

[LtFinFan66]

Is this guy camp fodder or someone who would make a difference:idunno:

[Wys Guy]

I've asked you 3 times already over the past month and this is the first time you've responded in any fashion. I guess better late than never.

BTW, Bling openly took me up on the offer and we bet ZB's and loser leaves the forum for 2 months. Why the need to do it in e-mail? And why not by PM?

And I'd rather not give out my e-mail. I trust that that's not difficult to understand.

See, here's what I object to;

First, you wasting my time. You said you were going to send me an e-mail Goob. You did. So I tried to respond to send one back. Here's the message I got w/ your addy blacked out;

The original message was received at Mon, 6 Aug 2007 07:34:20 -0400
from n107s098.bbr1.shentel.net [204.111.107.98]

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<XXXXXXX@comcast.net (XXXXXXX@comcast.net)>
(reason: 550 [SUSPEND] The mailbox is currently unavailable - please contact correspondent directly.)

----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to gateway-r.comcast.net.:
>>> DATA
<<< 550 [SUSPEND] The mailbox is currently unavailable - please contact correspondent directly.
550 5.1.1 <XXXXXXX@comcast.net (XXXXXXX@comcast.net)>... User unknown
<<< 503 need RCPT command [data]


I then sent you a PM late yesterday after four (4) attempts to try to reach you via the e-mail addy you provided.

You've clearly been on today this morning but I have received no response to my e-mail.

So to sit here and call me out publicly as if I'm somehow shirking from your wager offers is both dishonest as well as gutless.

At this point my offers no longer stand to you. In the meantime, thanks for wasting my time.

[Wys Guy]

PS

As to all hte other stuff about "the loser leaving the forums," ... grow up.

If you want me gone, ... just ask. Most happy to oblige! All I ask is that you ask courteously and personally and not off in some forum that I'll never go into as if this message board is the sum total of my social life as it appears to be for some.

[LtFinFan66]

:popcorn:

[madness]

Is this guy camp fodder or someone who would make a difference:idunno:

He is Schobel's backup and plays a little DT on passing downs. Young player with plenty of potential but also had some issues when he was in St. Louis.

What ever action is taken against him, I'm fine with. He has an opportunity that most don't have. If you can't figure out that staying out past 2am brings you nothing but trouble by now, I'd say you still have some growing up to do.

[DraftBoy]

funny

I've been on the wrong side of the law before. I've seen how corrupt and unprofessional they can be at times. Isn't self-defense legal? Hargroves response was natural and if I got sprayed in the face for doing absolutely nothing wrong, I would be upset as well. Are you saying that you WOULDN'T be?


Its not self defense when you are sprayed in the face to try and subdue your drunk dumb ass. You cant enact that defense just because you feel as though you shouldn't of been sprayed. Especially if it ends up being true that Hargrove was sprayed, walked away, and then came back later. We dont know all the facts yet, so lets take some time and listen. Though right now he'd sure as hell be in my dog house and likely need to really impress me to stay on this team.

[Typ0]

PS

As to all hte other stuff about "the loser leaving the forums," ... grow up.

If you want me gone, ... just ask. Most happy to oblige! All I ask is that you ask courteously and personally and not off in some forum that I'll never go into as if this message board is the sum total of my social life as it appears to be for some.

I didn't read any of this thread until the last page here and I can't agree with personal attacks of any kind...but on the other hand some people hate John Clayton and he's like the nicest guy on earth. I guess you throw yourself out there when you're in the spotlight.

[Typ0]

Its not self defense when you are sprayed in the face to try and subdue your drunk dumb ass. You cant enact that defense just because you feel as though you shouldn't of been sprayed. Especially if it ends up being true that Hargrove was sprayed, walked away, and then came back later. We dont know all the facts yet, so lets take some time and listen. Though right now he'd sure as hell be in my dog house and likely need to really impress me to stay on this team.

one defense that did come to my mind was that it's possible he didn't recognize the individual spraying him as a police officer (since his eyes may have been rendered useless by the spray).

[PECKERWOOD]

Its not self defense when you are sprayed in the face to try and subdue your drunk dumb ass. You cant enact that defense just because you feel as though you shouldn't of been sprayed. Especially if it ends up being true that Hargrove was sprayed, walked away, and then came back later. We dont know all the facts yet, so lets take some time and listen. Though right now he'd sure as hell be in my dog house and likely need to really impress me to stay on this team.

I didn't get the impression that Hargrove was in need of submission. Last I checked the cop "accidentally" sprayed Hargrove with pepper spray for no good damn reason. Also, to be frank, Hargrove really doesn't strike me as a bad character guy. Honestly, it is funny though to see all the people that rode this guys nuts like a cheap whore back away from him. Talk about loyalty Bills fans, way to stand behind your man. I wonder how many posts there were asserting that Hargrove should be cut today and we don't even have all the facts yet! I can count numerous "high character" ex-Bills superstars that ran into trouble with the law from the 90's and beyond. Hargrove is very important to this teams DL. People are forgetting that he plays DT as well and he is a pass rushing force to be reckoned with. Wanna know why the Bills staff let Walker go so easily? It's because we got this guy to step in this year.

[DraftBoy]

one defense that did come to my mind was that it's possible he didn't recognize the individual spraying him as a police officer (since his eyes may have been rendered useless by the spray).


Agreed and that may get him off on a lesser crime but he still cant get off for hitting somebody. Likely get basic assualt and battery at that point.

[Typ0]

Agreed and that may get him off on a lesser crime but he still cant get off for hitting somebody. Likely get basic assualt and battery at that point.

but if he was under attack (clearly there is a thread of force) then he is justified in defending himself...unless he's under attack by an identified police officer.

[DraftBoy]

I didn't get the impression that Hargrove was in need of submission. Last I checked the cop "accidentally" sprayed Hargrove with pepper spray for no good damn reason. Also, to be frank, Hargrove really doesn't strike me as a bad character guy. Honestly, it is funny though to see all the people that rode this guys nuts like a cheap whore back away from him. Talk about loyalty Bills fans, way to stand behind your man. I wonder how many posts there were asserting that Hargrove should be cut today and we don't even have all the facts yet! I can count numerous "high character" ex-Bills superstars that ran into trouble with the law from the 90's and beyond. Hargrove is very important to this teams DL. People are forgetting that he plays DT as well and he is a pass rushing force to be reckoned with. Wanna know why the Bills staff let Walker go so easily? It's because we got this guy to step in this year.

Your statement at the beginning is that of fact, as the final report still hasnt come out, on one report we have that Hargrove was accidentally sprayed and another that said he was sprayed and then came back later and got into a fight. Which is right? As for Hargrove he had issues in STL with small off the field problems, I dont know why your calling out Bills fans for not "standing up for your man", most fans here kill other teams players for transgressions but we are supposed to forgive and forget our own?

[DraftBoy]

but if he was under attack (clearly there is a thread of force) then he is justified in defending himself...unless he's under attack by an identified police officer.

Under attack from whom though? An officer spraying you isnt an attack.

[Typ0]

I didn't get the impression that Hargrove was in need of submission. Last I checked the cop "accidentally" sprayed Hargrove with pepper spray for no good damn reason. Also, to be frank, Hargrove really doesn't strike me as a bad character guy. Honestly, it is funny though to see all the people that rode this guys nuts like a cheap whore back away from him. Talk about loyalty Bills fans, way to stand behind your man. I wonder how many posts there were asserting that Hargrove should be cut today and we don't even have all the facts yet! I can count numerous "high character" ex-Bills superstars that ran into trouble with the law from the 90's and beyond. Hargrove is very important to this teams DL. People are forgetting that he plays DT as well and he is a pass rushing force to be reckoned with. Wanna know why the Bills staff let Walker go so easily? It's because we got this guy to step in this year.


people don't really grasp what is meant by "high character" IMO either. We are more importantly talking about high football character here. Good team players. Guys who work hard all the time. Guys who play their guts out. I understand that high football character is going to be correlated with high off the field "perceived" character but that doesn't always have to be the case. And to have 80 guys from any group someone is going to get in trouble, people get in trouble just because they are in the wrong place at the wrong time. It happens and to lambaste someone off the cuff is quite out of line.

[Typ0]

Under attack from whom though? An officer spraying you isnt an attack.

it is if the officer hasn't properly been identified. In that case, the individual does not have legal protection afforded to an officer. They absolutely must be properly identified. And in this case because the eyes are being rendered useless being in uniform does not even constitute their identity.

[Typ0]

at any rate, i don't know all the facts either but if Hargrove doesn't have any previous altercations with the law I doubt this is going anywhere. If there are witnesses that say he wasn't doing anything wrong and was hit with pepper spray then he just becomes some guy who was being traumatized and was in shock and that's how he was acting.

[DraftBoy]

it is if the officer hasn't properly been identified. In that case, the individual does not have legal protection afforded to an officer. They absolutely must be properly identified. And in this case because the eyes are being rendered useless being in uniform does not even constitute their identity.


Not at all unless he can prove he was clearly identified prior to Hargrove being sprayed. Thats assuming the timeline is the same as the first report and not the second report.

[DraftBoy]

at any rate, i don't know all the facts either but if Hargrove doesn't have any previous altercations with the law I doubt this is going anywhere. If there are witnesses that say he wasn't doing anything wrong and was hit with pepper spray then he just becomes some guy who was being traumatized and was in shock and that's how he was acting.


Correct

[PECKERWOOD]

Your statement at the beginning is that of fact, as the final report still hasnt come out, on one report we have that Hargrove was accidentally sprayed and another that said he was sprayed and then came back later and got into a fight. Which is right? As for Hargrove he had issues in STL with small off the field problems, I dont know why your calling out Bills fans for not "standing up for your man", most fans here kill other teams players for transgressions but we are supposed to forgive and forget our own?

Yeah, haha.

[Typ0]

Not at all unless he can prove he was clearly identified prior to Hargrove being sprayed. Thats assuming the timeline is the same as the first report and not the second report.

I guess that's the question and he would have to be clearly identified as an individual police officer. Just imagine you are in a mob of people and some cops come along and yell through a blow horn telling everyone to dispurse...and then suddenly you are nailed with pepper spray and a few seconds later some guy is on top of you driving you to the ground...how are you to know if that is a cop or just one of the aggressive jerks in the mob pushing you down and putting you at risk of being trampled.

I'm just playing devils advocate here a bit to show that the facts are not really available and maybe they never will be. But I also think that it's too premature to jump all over Vick. The guy has been indicted not convicted. This is America not Cuba.

[Typ0]

it does show some bad judgement though. I got arrested in a mob before. Next time I'm in a mob I'm just plain going to get out of there before all hell breaks loose.

[DraftBoy]

I guess that's the question and he would have to be clearly identified as an individual police officer. Just imagine you are in a mob of people and some cops come along and yell through a blow horn telling everyone to dispurse...and then suddenly you are nailed with pepper spray and a few seconds later some guy is on top of you driving you to the ground...how are you to know if that is a cop or just one of the aggressive jerks in the mob pushing you down and putting you at risk of being trampled.

I'm just playing devils advocate here a bit to show that the facts are not really available and maybe they never will be. But I also think that it's too premature to jump all over Vick. The guy has been indicted not convicted. This is America not Cuba.


I understand what your saying and you are correct that even if an officer is ID'd and you get hit by spray and then tackled how are you supposed to know that its the office, but I cant imaine and officer one spraying you and tackling you without saying something like stay down, put your hands where I can see them, etc. Yes you are disoriented and cant see but as a prosecutor (if I was one) Id argue that he had the full ability to hear the commands of the officer.

[LtBillsFan66]

I understand what your saying and you are correct that even if an officer is ID'd and you get hit by spray and then tackled how are you supposed to know that its the office, but I cant imaine and officer one spraying you and tackling you without saying something like stay down, put your hands where I can see them, etc. Yes you are disoriented and cant see but as a prosecutor (if I was one) Id argue that he had the full ability to hear the commands of the officer.

You are so naive.

[DraftBoy]

You are so naive.

:rofl: