After really watching Video's of the Bills O-line......

[Mitchy moo]

The left side is going to pave a highway to score TD's. We might even dare our opponents to try and guard that side, knowing full well the other side we be ripe for passing and big plays. We are going to the right way this season, this is what dreams are made of.

:bandwagon

[OpIv37]

well, before you go proclaiming our OL to be excellent, remember that they are playing against our crap-tacular DL. All they have to do is exhale on Tripplett to knock him down then double team Schobel.

[Mitchy moo]

well, before you go proclaiming our OL to be excellent, remember that they are playing against our crap-tacular DL. All they have to do is exhale on Tripplett to knock him down then double team Schobel.

Dr. doom strikes again. OP, Walker is huge & he is moving people. He is going to make life difficult for whoever he is facing, even our own D.

[Wys Guy]

Dr. doom strikes again. OP, Walker is huge & he is moving people. He is going to make life difficult for whoever he is facing, even our own D.

LOL

Yeah, and of course non of his points are valid, eh.

www.homercity.com (http://www.homercity.com)

[Wys Guy]

BTW Skoob, you're absolutely right, the left side of our line will easily pave the way to whatever success we have in the running game. But several things:

What happened to the enthusiasm about Langston Walker being a beast at RT?

Don't you think that opponents might be able to plan around a left side running attack and single deep ball threat to Evans?

Can a team really play to anything decent with just a "left side" rushing game?

It's not as if Peters Dockery are the HOGS of old. They're good, Peters arguably among the top-10 or 15 for LT, but Dockery does have limitations, for those being realistic.

Also, given that we were 30th in plays allowed last season and ToP, how do you view our D in terms of improving all that?

It'd be really nice to think that everything is going to change, but from all of the things that I've heard here over the last month or two, I'm not hearing, seeing, or reading much support for it.

Everett hasn't impressed.
Royal's only come across as the waste of $2M annually that he is.
McCargo, well, ... just LOL. Great pickup there.
Youboty can't even unseat a journeyman career backup CB who's on the wrong side of 30 now.
Price?? Where did he go, over to Duff's to drown the rest of his career in X-hot wings?
Langston Walker? When all you hear is how Pennington may win the job, well...?
Butler's not doing well.
Hargrove just got arrested.
Darwin Walker just didn't want to play here, ... not that it matters.
DiGiorgio, ... LMAO.
Meanwhile, say what you want about Parrish now, he ain't gonna do any more this season than in past ones. Why not? Because WRs that weigh 110 lbs. and are 4'6" just don't do much in the NFL, as a rule.

In the mean time, as Op points out, so what if our team "shows something" against the slate of mediocrity (being kind here) in camp in a limited contact environment. Apparently you do, but I don't.

I care about how they come out and play Denver to start, then the Pats, then @ Pitt. What's going on now is no indication of that, ... except to people that fell off the turnip wagon last week.

Your response to that may very well be "then how can you discount the list of players above?"

If that needs explaining, ...

;)

[Wys Guy]

At some point Skoob, you have to point the finger where it needs to be pointed, not at other fans for not foolishly BILL-ieving in some fairy tale.

[Mitchy moo]

At some point Skoob, you have to point the finger where it needs to be pointed

If someone cannot handle their job they need to be replaced. The problem is since we haven't seen a game yet with the new guys, it is hard to say what to make of it. I also feel that the O-line played alot better in the second half of the season last year and we have made improvements and have the same system in which the team should be better equipped to handle more this year. JP maturing as a QB and playing all of last year will make him better this year as well, so all in all we should score more points this year.

BTW, It's not polite to point, my momma taught me that.

[mayotm]

LOL

Yeah, and of course non of his points are valid, eh.

www.homercity.com (http://www.homercity.com)The thread wasn't about our whether the defense is good or not. Skoob was simply poiting out that he feels the left side of our o-line is going to be dominant. I realize you and OP like to crap on every positive thread, but could you at least stay on topic. Oh, and OP, use "craptacular" a few more times. It's soooo hilarious.

[Mahdi]

BTW Skoob, you're absolutely right, the left side of our line will easily pave the way to whatever success we have in the running game. But several things:

What happened to the enthusiasm about Langston Walker being a beast at RT?

Don't you think that opponents might be able to plan around a left side running attack and single deep ball threat to Evans?

Can a team really play to anything decent with just a "left side" rushing game?

It's not as if Peters Dockery are the HOGS of old. They're good, Peters arguably among the top-10 or 15 for LT, but Dockery does have limitations, for those being realistic.

Also, given that we were 30th in plays allowed last season and ToP, how do you view our D in terms of improving all that?

It'd be really nice to think that everything is going to change, but from all of the things that I've heard here over the last month or two, I'm not hearing, seeing, or reading much support for it.

Everett hasn't impressed.
Royal's only come across as the waste of $2M annually that he is.
McCargo, well, ... just LOL. Great pickup there.
Youboty can't even unseat a journeyman career backup CB who's on the wrong side of 30 now.
Price?? Where did he go, over to Duff's to drown the rest of his career in X-hot wings?
Langston Walker? When all you hear is how Pennington may win the job, well...?
Butler's not doing well.
Hargrove just got arrested.
Darwin Walker just didn't want to play here, ... not that it matters.
DiGiorgio, ... LMAO.
Meanwhile, say what you want about Parrish now, he ain't gonna do any more this season than in past ones. Why not? Because WRs that weigh 110 lbs. and are 4'6" just don't do much in the NFL, as a rule.

In the mean time, as Op points out, so what if our team "shows something" against the slate of mediocrity (being kind here) in camp in a limited contact environment. Apparently you do, but I don't.

I care about how they come out and play Denver to start, then the Pats, then @ Pitt. What's going on now is no indication of that, ... except to people that fell off the turnip wagon last week.

Your response to that may very well be "then how can you discount the list of players above?"

If that needs explaining, ...

;)
Ok I dont understand this post at all and yer clearly biased towards being negative....

First of all theres plenty of enthusiasm around Walker and its been documented by players, coaches and ppl who have been to camp and watched him.... does that mean he's Pro Bowl bound? No, but he does provide an upgrade to the RT spot.


Second, the point about teams planning for a left sided running attack and a deep ball to Evans......

Yer discounting those 2 things as if its easy to do. Ill give you examples of 3 offenses who have been successful with the same amount of threats or less...

Seattle Seahawks: When they had Hutch all they did was run left and play action to their mediocre WRs. I would take Lee Evans, Price, Parrish and Reed over their WR group anyday. Our OL should be similar to theirs as it was and a potentially better right side then they had with a mauler like Langston ( his pass protection skills yet to be seen). We all know how good Seattles offense was.

San Diego Chargers: Great left side once again, no wrs to scare anyone, however they have a TE thats excellent of course. So pretty much it was Tomlinson and Gates. How come teams couldnt game plan against a run game and Gates?

Kansas City Chiefs: Same as San Diego pretty much, run game and Gonzalez. They did well on Offense and that was again with no threats at Wr. At least we have Lee Evans who teams will be scheming against. Advantage Bills in IMO.

Now lets look at yer players list:

Everett and Royal were blocking all of last year and only when we shuffled the OL did Royal start becoming a factor. Still this year with better protection from the 5 OL, Royal and Everett should make a bigger impact. Again not saying PB, but just a bigger impact.

McCargo: Jury is still out on him, you cant go calling him a bust. He's had injury issues but I think that when he does get onto the field he'll make a difference for the good. Time will tell.

Youboty: He needs time last year he was late to camp and hardly touched the field after that. No comment on him cause no one really knows, not even the coaches.

Butler: Ive only heard good things about Butler, and on top of that its not like he was drafted on the first day or anything.

Hargrove: Ok so he got arrested, does that mean he sucks now? I think hes simply a rotational player who makes a play here and there, every team has players like that. Not everyone is going to have huge stats on yer team, he's a role player, thats it.


To sum up, the Bills have just as many threats offensively or more than many other teams who have been successful in the NFL including teams in the top 5 offensively. Theres no reason why teams will find it easy to scheme for our Wrs and run game simultaneously. If that was the case they would have stopped Lee Evans last year when our OL was crap. Now its even better and our QB and Wrs have another year under their belts.

Of course the jury is out on a lot of our players but we do know the the potential is there. Roscoe is dangerous with the ball in his hands as is Reed. And Price is still good enough to make some plays.

I think the Bills have way more to be positive about than many other teams in the NFL.

[Goobylal]

Dockery will be an upgrade over Gandy and Walker will be an upgrade over Pennington. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs his/her head examined. And LAST year the Bills could only run left, since the Pennington/TE combo couldn't generate squat. This year the Bills will be able to run everywhere, not just left. As for Butler, he's been injured but was looking like a good player. Moreover, with everyone having a year in the offense and being able to build off of that this training camp, the offense should be better for that reason alone.

As for defense, again I'll say the only possible problem may be at RCB. I say "may be" because Clements was largely inconsistent, the cover-2 doesn't rely on shutdown CB's, and Webster (healthy permitting) has been playing well.

[MikeInRoch]

BTW Skoob, you're absolutely right, the left side of our line will easily pave the way to whatever success we have in the running game. But several things:

...



When put in the context of "said by someone who thinks McNally is a bad line coach", I find that I know exactly how much credibility this post deserves.

[OpIv37]

The thread wasn't about our whether the defense is good or not. Skoob was simply poiting out that he feels the left side of our o-line is going to be dominant. I realize you and OP like to crap on every positive thread, but could you at least stay on topic. Oh, and OP, use "craptacular" a few more times. It's soooo hilarious.

I feel that the left side of the OL beating up on our crappy DL doesn't prove a damn thing, and I said so, but once again you have to criticize the tone of the post rather than addressing the content. What does that tell you about who has the stronger argument?

And my job isn't to entertain you- I'll use whatever words I want whether you find them funny or not.

[Goobylal]

I feel that the left side of the OL beating up on our crappy DL doesn't prove a damn thing, and I said so, but once again you have to criticize the tone of the post rather than addressing the content. What does that tell you about who has the stronger argument?

And my job isn't to entertain you- I'll use whatever words I want whether you find them funny or not.
Forget what the O-line did to the Bills' D-line, if you think they're so crappy. Look at what Peters and Gandy did last year, and realize that Dockery is an upgrade over Gandy. Or do you think he's not?

[OpIv37]

Forget what the O-line did to the Bills' D-line, if you think they're so crappy. Look at what Peters and Gandy did last year, and realize that Dockery is an upgrade over Gandy. Or do you think he's not?

I think Dockery is an improvement over Gandy- I just don't see how beating up on our DL in camp proves it.

[Goobylal]

If that was your point, I agree.

[Wys Guy]

Ok I dont understand this post at all and yer clearly biased towards being negative....

I know you don't and that's a good chunk of the issues between us as it relates to perspectives.

First of all theres plenty of enthusiasm around Walker and its been documented by players, coaches and ppl who have been to camp and watched him.... does that mean he's Pro Bowl bound? No, but he does provide an upgrade to the RT spot.

It's funny how when a player is "approved" then he deserves all the time in the world to develop, but when not he's cast aside like a used rag. Terrence Pennington clearly deserved a shot at RT this season that he's obviously not going to get now. Who's the "negative" one on that end. Meanwhile, pardom me as I remain skeptical with yet a what, 20th OL pickup by the same FO that has promised us something even worthy of contemplating particularly in conjunction with an OL Coach that if the actions had been a fraction of the words then we wouldn't even be having this discussion.


Second, the point about teams planning for a left sided running attack and a deep ball to Evans......

Yer discounting those 2 things as if its easy to do. Ill give you examples of 3 offenses who have been successful with the same amount of threats or less...

Seattle Seahawks: When they had Hutch all they did was run left and play action to their mediocre WRs. I would take Lee Evans, Price, Parrish and Reed over their WR group anyday. Our OL should be similar to theirs as it was and a potentially better right side then they had with a mauler like Langston ( his pass protection skills yet to be seen). We all know how good Seattles offense was.

Clearly there's a major disconnect if you truly believe that that's all that Seattle had.

San Diego Chargers: Great left side once again, no wrs to scare anyone, however they have a TE thats excellent of course. So pretty much it was Tomlinson and Gates. How come teams couldnt game plan against a run game and Gates?

Watch the Chargers sometime. Also, take a minute to check out their D. Otherwise ditto above.

Kansas City Chiefs: Same as San Diego pretty much, run game and Gonzalez. They did well on Offense and that was again with no threats at Wr. At least we have Lee Evans who teams will be scheming against. Advantage Bills in IMO.

Ditto here.

Now lets look at yer players list:

Everett and Royal were blocking all of last year and only when we shuffled the OL did Royal start becoming a factor. Still this year with better protection from the 5 OL, Royal and Everett should make a bigger impact. Again not saying PB, but just a bigger impact.

Ok, so by your own admission they haven't done squat yet and "should" make a bigger impact. Will that be difficult to do? How big of an impact did they make last year? If they make a marginally bigger impact does that mean we'll be a playoff caliber team?

McCargo: Jury is still out on him, you cant go calling him a bust. He's had injury issues but I think that when he does get onto the field he'll make a difference for the good. Time will tell.

Yes, and the jury will be fully back come about October. I can call him a bust, I have, and I will continue to. When something else regarding him turns up, you just let me know. Thus far however, how much scratch you gonna lay on him being anything other than a bust? Either way, by your own admission, it is your opinion, really based on very little, that has him "making a difference for the good." You can call me "negative," but I'll also take the tag "realistic."

Youboty: He needs time last year he was late to camp and hardly touched the field after that. No comment on him cause no one really knows, not even the coaches.

LOL Yeah, I know. He needs time but Terrence Pennington it was proven that he sucks in spite of a very good rookie year for a 7th rounder. LMAO

The rest essentially admits that you haven't a clue here either or that there's any basis for real hopes. And frankly Mahdi, if he can't beat out Jason Webster... I mean really, Webster's mediocre when he's healthy. The smart money says that if he does end up starting he won't even be able to stay healthy for all 16.

Butler: Ive only heard good things about Butler, and on top of that its not like he was drafted on the first day or anything.

Butler was terrible last year and if getting a hamstring injury is good news to you, well then that would explain a lot. Why are fans' such as yourself, expectations so low?

Hargrove: Ok so he got arrested, does that mean he sucks now? I think hes simply a rotational player who makes a play here and there, every team has players like that. Not everyone is going to have huge stats on yer team, he's a role player, thats it.

Does it mean he didn't suck before we even signed him? I won't disagree with you. So in essence then he's just like most backups in the league. Completely in agreement here. It's certainly a far cry from the talk about what an impact he's going to make over the years.

To sum up, the Bills have just as many threats offensively or more than many other teams who have been successful in the NFL including teams in the top 5 offensively. Theres no reason why teams will find it easy to scheme for our Wrs and run game simultaneously. If that was the case they would have stopped Lee Evans last year when our OL was crap. Now its even better and our QB and Wrs have another year under their belts.

ROFLMAO Sure.

Of course the jury is out on a lot of our players but we do know the the potential is there. Roscoe is dangerous with the ball in his hands as is Reed. And Price is still good enough to make some plays.

McGahee can make plays. So can Jeff Posey, or Mike Gandy, or Andre Johnson.

Y-A-W-N... ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.........

I think the Bills have way more to be positive about than many other teams in the NFL.

I know you do.

[Wys Guy]

Dockery will be an upgrade over Gandy and Walker will be an upgrade over Pennington. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs his/her head examined. And LAST year the Bills could only run left, since the Pennington/TE combo couldn't generate squat. This year the Bills will be able to run everywhere, not just left. As for Butler, he's been injured but was looking like a good player. Moreover, with everyone having a year in the offense and being able to build off of that this training camp, the offense should be better for that reason alone.

As for defense, again I'll say the only possible problem may be at RCB. I say "may be" because Clements was largely inconsistent, the cover-2 doesn't rely on shutdown CB's, and Webster (healthy permitting) has been playing well.

It's hilarious how some of you supporters of mediocrity can spin things.

Last year we all needed to be patient for Gandy, Willis was finally going to light things up, Parrish was gonna explode, having Price back was the answer at #2, Royal was a real steal, Everett outran Winslow Jr. so we were expected to see him compare as a player on the field, not to mention the endless string of OL-men and other players brought through this revolving door over the years, and yet every season in spite of the writing being on the wall, it's the same things over again as if no one ever learns anything or looks at the real and root reasons why we continue to suck.

What's gonna be funny about this is that about midway through the season some of you who are "telling me off" and saying how patient we should be with Marv's rebuilding plan, the development of players, coaches that came here w/o any experience, or worse yet, with experiences of failing only, and you will be the most impatient of all of us.

You guys can be sold anything, absolutely anything. It is amusing I must say.

[The Spaz]

It's hilarious how some of you supporters of mediocrity can spin things.

Last year we all needed to be patient for Gandy, Willis was finally going to light things up, Parrish was gonna explode, having Price back was the answer at #2, Royal was a real steal, Everett outran Winslow Jr. so we were expected to see him compare as a player on the field, not to mention the endless string of OL-men and other players brought through this revolving door over the years, and yet every season in spite of the writing being on the wall, it's the same things over again as if no one ever learns anything or looks at the real and root reasons why we continue to suck.

What's gonna be funny about this is that about midway through the season some of you who are "telling me off" and saying how patient we should be with Marv's rebuilding plan, the development of players, coaches that came here w/o any experience, or worse yet, with experiences of failing only, and you will be the most impatient of all of us.

You guys can be sold anything, absolutely anything. It is amusing I must say.

Find a new team not to root for!:up:

[Goobylal]

It's hilarious how some of you supporters of mediocrity can spin things.

Last year we all needed to be patient for Gandy, Willis was finally going to light things up, Parrish was gonna explode, having Price back was the answer at #2, Royal was a real steal, Everett outran Winslow Jr. so we were expected to see him compare as a player on the field, not to mention the endless string of OL-men and other players brought through this revolving door over the years, and yet every season in spite of the writing being on the wall, it's the same things over again as if no one ever learns anything or looks at the real and root reasons why we continue to suck.

What's gonna be funny about this is that about midway through the season some of you who are "telling me off" and saying how patient we should be with Marv's rebuilding plan, the development of players, coaches that came here w/o any experience, or worse yet, with experiences of failing only, and you will be the most impatient of all of us.

You guys can be sold anything, absolutely anything. It is amusing I must say.
What exactly do you THINK you were "being sold" last year? That a new regime was going to take over a 5-11 team, clean house, and make the playoffs? Do you have a quote by anyone claiming that last year?

Judging by your articles, of which at best I read the first sentence, I believe you pegged them for one of the worst teams in the league. Yet there they were, still in the playoff hunt until the final seconds of weeks 16, thanks in large part to your idols Spikes and Fletcher being unable to stop Henry or Young from running all over, or past, them. Yet we're supposed to believe that your predictions are gospel? Sorry.

As for myself, I didn't expect much, given the new schemes, number of rookies playing, and one of hardest schedules in the NFL (it was supposed to be the 2nd hardest based on 2005's results, and turned out to be the hardest overall). What I did expect to see was progress. And that's what I saw, at least from the offense and the younger parts of the defense.

You see after the bye, when the O-line changes were made, the offense averaged 22.2 PPG, whereas prior they averaged 14.3 PPG. That was WITH Gandy and Pennington at LG and RT respectively and with Royal having to stay home to help Pennington pass and run block (poorly). Now they've added Dockery, who everyone and their grandmother agrees is a huge upgrade to Gandy, and Walker at the very least will be a huge upgrade in running to the right side of the line. Surely you can even see that, given how well the Redskins and Raiders did last year running behind those two. And more importantly, after the bye, the Bills went 5-4, versus 2-5.

I can understand your pessimism. Because no matter what happens, you're "happy," of sorts. If things go to pot, you'll get to say "see, I told you so." If things go well, you'll whip out the "I'm happy I was wrong." It's a wonderful defense mechanism, albeit the coward's way out.

[thesquirrelking]

Langston Walker? When all you hear is how Pennington may win the job, well...?

Terrence Pennington clearly deserved a shot at RT this season that he's obviously not going to get now.



Which is it? First you say all you hear is that Pennington may win the job. Later you say he's obviously not gonna get it. Are you purposely making stuff up whenever it supports your argument?

[Goobylal]

Which is it? First you say all you hear is that Pennington may win the job. Later you say he's obviously not gonna get it. Are you purposely making stuff up whenever it supports your argument?
He's reaching here. You gotta wonder why Pennington wasn't given the chance to compete for the RT job this year. And for someone who watched the games and was awed by Spikes' play last year, it certainly says something about considering the source.

[duhbilz]

well, before you go proclaiming our OL to be excellent, remember that they are playing against our crap-tacular DL. All they have to do is exhale on Tripplett to knock him down then double team Schobel.

I have to agree, it will have to be the output in the regular season before anyone knows for sure what the Oline will be. I think most here expect good things, but you won't know till it counts.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Regarding every single post, Wys........it musy be absolute torture to be you.

[John Doe]

I think that the O-line is going to be the strength of the team this year.

[PECKERWOOD]

It's hilarious how some of you supporters of mediocrity can spin things.

Last year we all needed to be patient for Gandy, Willis was finally going to light things up, Parrish was gonna explode, having Price back was the answer at #2, Royal was a real steal, Everett outran Winslow Jr. so we were expected to see him compare as a player on the field, not to mention the endless string of OL-men and other players brought through this revolving door over the years, and yet every season in spite of the writing being on the wall, it's the same things over again as if no one ever learns anything or looks at the real and root reasons why we continue to suck.

What's gonna be funny about this is that about midway through the season some of you who are "telling me off" and saying how patient we should be with Marv's rebuilding plan, the development of players, coaches that came here w/o any experience, or worse yet, with experiences of failing only, and you will be the most impatient of all of us.

You guys can be sold anything, absolutely anything. It is amusing I must say.

Good points about Gandy and Willis. However, I was one of those people who rooted for Losman and had faith in him even when he was ****ting the bed. Sometimes you have to go by what your gut tells ya. It is funny though, I mentioned this the other day, some people act like this roster is set to win the superbowl, they act like no player in a Bills uniform can be horrible, it's senseless. Do you honestly believe that Marv & Co. feel comfortable about having DiGorgio as their backup MLB? Do you honestly believe that Marv & Co. are happy about McCargo's "progress"? LOL. Some people are truly incapable of seeing the larger picture. Now don't get me wrong, I like what Marv and Jauron have done so far but people also have to understand that we don't have enough resources to fill every hole in one single offseason, it's called salary cap. I really feel bad for some people though, they read too much into Marv's interviews. Hear no evil, see no evil. Did you hear what Marv said about this guy?? It's like wow, what is Marv suppose to say? 'x' player sucks and he probably won't be on the team for long? I could start a thread right now and say that Fast Freddie Smith BLOWS and some idiot out there would probably protest that statement and proclaim that he is the second coming of the messiah. It's really sickening. Homerism is cool until it starts dwindling on the brink stupidity.

[PECKERWOOD]

I think that the O-line is going to be the strength of the team this year.

I agree with this statement. Their going to make EVERYONE on offense look good, including our first round draft choice, my man MARSHAWN LYNCH! :xtreme:

[Mitchy moo]

I think that the O-line is going to be the strength of the team this year.

That in a nutshell sums up how I feel as well, it's been a major reason we haven't been to the playoffs for the past 10 years and is no longer being ignored. I knew I would see that the Bills D sucks and there are question marks but nearly every team has some question marks at some spots in their roster.