New article: Training Camp Observations for August 3rd.

[G. Host]

http://www.billszone.com/mtlog/archives/2007/08/06/training_camp_observations_another_perspective.php

[Michael82]

Nice article, man! Thanks for sharing for those of us that weren't there. :up:

[justasportsfan]

Did anyone run this article by Op yet?

[bigbub2352]

Very nice observations, and very well wrote

[mysticsoto]

Did anyone run this article by Op yet?
The article is probably by some guy associated with the FO who is just blowing smoke up our ass to keep up team morale...how can this writer know more than last year's news like Op does???

/sarcasm

[justasportsfan]

The article is probably by some guy associated with the FO who is just blowing smoke up our ass to keep up team morale...

/sarcasm
I don't know man. You might be watching camp through your rose colored glasses. You might think there was a catch where there wasn't. I'm not really sure if you saw Evans catch a ball. It's the same thing Chris Brown saw so your report might be biased in OP's eyes.

[JJamezz]

Very nice observations, and very well wrote


:whatthe:

[OpIv37]

you two, FlyingDutchman and Goobylal have an unhealthy obsession with me.

[mysticsoto]

you two, FlyingDutchman and Goobylal have an unhealthy obsession with me.

Not at all. Like anyone else, if you say something here and you can't back it up, you will be called out. I have yet to see you be able to back up all your negativity except based on last years' news and draft positions.

Meanwhile, many of the current data would seem to contradict what you are saying. I've come to realize several things. Lynch is great. Evans is on a higher level plane with JP. Their chemistry on the field is like Peyton and Harrison. They know each other so well, they just connect more often than not! Of course, we knew that from last year also (not just TC now). JP and Evans connected percentagewise on long bombs more often than Peyton and Harrison did last year. What else? Wright was EXTREMELY impressive. Poz was always in on or around each tackle. McCargo...when healthy and in, IS capable of augmenting our run D considerably. Our left Oline is extremely formidable!!! Parrish appears to be stepping it up and was extremely reliable. All appearances are that he will move to #2 at WR. Fred Jackson has looked fast and shifty and knows where to be, when to cut, etc.

I could go on, but I'll just be labeled a homer, so I'll say some negative things I saw also. Price didn't look too good. None of the UDFA WRs stood out much. Scott Mayle has blazing speed to get by even our fastest CBs, but can't accelerate quickly - which means he would likely get bumped within 5 yds to slow him down and then it would take a bit for him to be able to accelerate again. Scobey hasn't really done much of anything either as RB or in STs. Youboty needs more experience, though he occasionally batted passes and did okay. Everett catches well and would extend the field, but needs to work on his blocking. Tim Anderson looked fat and might benefit by trying to make a move to the Oline instead. Aiken is a disappointment at WR and though he plays well in other areas, if we can get a decent replacement for him on ST, I'd be willing to part with him and give a young WR a chance to develop instead. Donovan Morgan played alot with the 1st stringers and though he did nothing outstanding that I can remember, Jauron might have seen something he liked in him and he might be worth keeping to develop...

That's probably all I can comment on from first hand views - not from reading last years news or making judgments based on when people were drafted. This is solely based on their own performance!!!

PS I don't work for the Bills marketing team...

[justasportsfan]

PS I don't work for the Bills marketing team...but you're still media :rolleyes:

[The last buffalo fan]

PS I don't work for the Bills marketing team...

Are you sure?? :bf1:

[OpIv37]

Not at all. Like anyone else, if you say something here and you can't back it up, you will be called out. I have yet to see you be able to back up all your negativity except based on last years' news and draft positions.
But all the people who say we are going to improve are backing it up with nothing at all other than a blanket statement that "2nd year players usually improve". For some reason, you don't call them out, but there is no substance to that argument.




Meanwhile, many of the current data would seem to contradict what you are saying. I've come to realize several things. Lynch is great. Evans is on a higher level plane with JP. Their chemistry on the field is like Peyton and Harrison. They know each other so well, they just connect more often than not! Of course, we knew that from last year also (not just TC now). JP and Evans connected percentagewise on long bombs more often than Peyton and Harrison did last year. What else? Wright was EXTREMELY impressive. Poz was always in on or around each tackle. McCargo...when healthy and in, IS capable of augmenting our run D considerably. Our left Oline is extremely formidable!!! Parrish appears to be stepping it up and was extremely reliable. All appearances are that he will move to #2 at WR. Fred Jackson has looked fast and shifty and knows where to be, when to cut, etc.

I could go on, but I'll just be labeled a homer, so I'll say some negative things I saw also. Price didn't look too good. None of the UDFA WRs stood out much. Scott Mayle has blazing speed to get by even our fastest CBs, but can't accelerate quickly - which means he would likely get bumped within 5 yds to slow him down and then it would take a bit for him to be able to accelerate again. Scobey hasn't really done much of anything either as RB or in STs. Youboty needs more experience, though he occasionally batted passes and did okay. Everett catches well and would extend the field, but needs to work on his blocking. Tim Anderson looked fat and might benefit by trying to make a move to the Oline instead. Aiken is a disappointment at WR and though he plays well in other areas, if we can get a decent replacement for him on ST, I'd be willing to part with him and give a young WR a chance to develop instead. Donovan Morgan played alot with the 1st stringers and though he did nothing outstanding that I can remember, Jauron might have seen something he liked in him and he might be worth keeping to develop...

That's probably all I can comment on from first hand views - not from reading last years news or making judgments based on when people were drafted. This is solely based on their own performance!!!

PS I don't work for the Bills marketing team...

good comments.

[mysticsoto]

But all the people who say we are going to improve are backing it up with nothing at all other than a blanket statement that "2nd year players usually improve". For some reason, you don't call them out, but there is no substance to that argument.


I think most people trust the words of coaches and writers and don't believe that everything they say is for marketing reasons. For one thing, when Jauron made the comment about CBs that you jumped on, it should have been made clear that he, like Levy, calls things as it is. No one in the FO strikes me as the TD styled person that is more devious and will use the media to spin things, etc. Marv has never been that type of person and it would be stupid to say one thing to the media, and then have the play on the field reflect another. If DiGiorgio has improved, and they make that claim - I see no reason to not accept it. Now, that can mean he's improved a little, or improved alot and we'll need to judge that once play starts - his own performance will dictate what we believe - which, I believe is where Justa stands when he says, "Let's see".

Other than that, I listen and read to what is said, I watch and then I make my own judgements. If you saw, when the question was posed on where I thought our Run D would be, I was honest and said I think it would only improve slightly (lower 20s). If we have McCargo in and healthy, we might even get to the upper teens if we're lucky...but sadly, I think he will be an oft injured player - which will mean we need to draft DT next year or get a FA to come in that can help solidify.

But...we can't do everything in one year and right now, I see the Dline as our weakest position and one that will likely be addressed next year. Our WR corp should be okay with Parrish starting to emerge. Our RB committee is excellent. Our Oline looks good. TEs could use improvements, but I haven't seen enough of Schouman to know if he might develop in the future. Our safeties are excellent and LBs now look better with DiGiorgio emerging, Ellison looking great and Poz looking great also. So, barring injuries at other positions, DLine and CB are where we will need to focus in the future.

[mysticsoto]

My above post is meant to show that I think there is a reason for optimism. We are solid and many more positions than we have been for a long time. No, we are not perfect...and quite frankly, never will be. But I like what we have and I think we can do decent with this package we currently have. So when I see negativity, I have to question it's source and credibility, as I think the Bills have made some significant positive changes in some areas and solidified some key spots.

[MikeInRoch]

I don't know man. You might be watching camp through your rose colored glasses. You might think there was a catch where there wasn't. I'm not really sure if you saw Evans catch a ball. It's the same thing Chris Brown saw so your report might be biased in OP's eyes.

Fortunately, there were officials there (who knows if there were "real") who did actually signal things like Touchdown when the "scored".

[OpIv37]

I think most people trust the words of coaches and writers and don't believe that everything they say is for marketing reasons. For one thing, when Jauron made the comment about CBs that you jumped on, it should have been made clear that he, like Levy, calls things as it is. No one in the FO strikes me as the TD styled person that is more devious and will use the media to spin things, etc. Marv has never been that type of person and it would be stupid to say one thing to the media, and then have the play on the field reflect another. If DiGiorgio has improved, and they make that claim - I see no reason to not accept it. Now, that can mean he's improved a little, or improved alot and we'll need to judge that once play starts - his own performance will dictate what we believe - which, I believe is where Justa stands when he says, "Let's see".

Other than that, I listen and read to what is said, I watch and then I make my own judgements. If you saw, when the question was posed on where I thought our Run D would be, I was honest and said I think it would only improve slightly (lower 20s). If we have McCargo in and healthy, we might even get to the upper teens if we're lucky...but sadly, I think he will be an oft injured player - which will mean we need to draft DT next year or get a FA to come in that can help solidify.

But...we can't do everything in one year and right now, I see the Dline as our weakest position and one that will likely be addressed next year. Our WR corp should be okay with Parrish starting to emerge. Our RB committee is excellent. Our Oline looks good. TEs could use improvements, but I haven't seen enough of Schouman to know if he might develop in the future. Our safeties are excellent and LBs now look better with DiGiorgio emerging, Ellison looking great and Poz looking great also. So, barring injuries at other positions, DLine and CB are where we will need to focus in the future.

I don't think one has to be a "TD styled person" to spin to the media. Anyone who talks to the media, whether it's an athlete, coach, celebrity, politician, etc, has to spin to a certain degree because they're in the public spotlight and they'll be crucified if they say the wrong thing. For example, let's take a hypothetical scenario where Marv thinks DiGiorgio sucks. If he says that, it's going to hurt team chemistry, and if DiG ends up starting anyway, it will either a) make Marv look like an idiot or b) alienate some fans (or both). So, Marv would never say that to the media- he'd spew out some crap about some other player looking better or looking at different players for the position or something like that. It doesn't make him a liar or a dishonest person, there are just some things that you can't say publically.

As far as the team, I agree DL is our biggest weakness at the moment. LB's I'm not so sure about- there is potential, but a lot of potential is never realized. Out of the group, the only proven player is Crowell, and while he's decent, he's not spectacular. But we're not going to agree on that.

I don't like any of our WR's after Evans, but I'm hoping that Evans and Lynch can draw enough pressure that Reed, Price and/or Parrish will be able to make some plays. Same goes for the TE's. However, both Price and Reed have heavily backloaded contracts and will be expensive to keep in the 3rd year of their deals (next season), so something has to give there: they either need to prove they're worth the money this season, restructure, or they'll be cut.

CB isn't quite as scary as the DL but it is scary. Given that the Cover 2 relies on pressure from the front 4, it only makes the job that much more difficult. I'm hoping Webster can be a good stop gap for a season or two until either Youboty emerges or we find someone else.

I like our RB's and the OL should be better. The left side is about as solid as it gets with Peters and Dockery. The right side is questionable- we have a lot of options, which is both good and bad- it's bad that there are no standouts, but it's good that if there is an injury, the drop off in play will be minimal (on the right side- if Peters and/or Dockery get injured, we're in deep ****).

[mysticsoto]

I don't think one has to be a "TD styled person" to spin to the media. Anyone who talks to the media, whether it's an athlete, coach, celebrity, politician, etc, has to spin to a certain degree because they're in the public spotlight and they'll be crucified if they say the wrong thing. For example, let's take a hypothetical scenario where Marv thinks DiGiorgio sucks. If he says that, it's going to hurt team chemistry, and if DiG ends up starting anyway, it will either a) make Marv look like an idiot or b) alienate some fans (or both). So, Marv would never say that to the media- he'd spew out some crap about some other player looking better or looking at different players for the position or something like that. It doesn't make him a liar or a dishonest person, there are just some things that you can't say publically.

As far as the team, I agree DL is our biggest weakness at the moment. LB's I'm not so sure about- there is potential, but a lot of potential is never realized. Out of the group, the only proven player is Crowell, and while he's decent, he's not spectacular. But we're not going to agree on that.

I don't like any of our WR's after Evans, but I'm hoping that Evans and Lynch can draw enough pressure that Reed, Price and/or Parrish will be able to make some plays. Same goes for the TE's. However, both Price and Reed have heavily backloaded contracts and will be expensive to keep in the 3rd year of their deals (next season), so something has to give there: they either need to prove they're worth the money this season, restructure, or they'll be cut.

CB isn't quite as scary as the DL but it is scary. Given that the Cover 2 relies on pressure from the front 4, it only makes the job that much more difficult. I'm hoping Webster can be a good stop gap for a season or two until either Youboty emerges or we find someone else.

I like our RB's and the OL should be better. The left side is about as solid as it gets with Peters and Dockery. The right side is questionable- we have a lot of options, which is both good and bad- it's bad that there are no standouts, but it's good that if there is an injury, the drop off in play will be minimal (on the right side- if Peters and/or Dockery get injured, we're in deep ****).

In the same fashion you don't feel the FO would say DiGiorgio sucks, I feel they wouldn't say he's improved if he hadn't. What's the use of getting fans expectations up, only to have them dashed upon watching them play. They would lose credibility in anything they said which would them become counterproductive. Last year, I think it was Stamer who started out manning the backup middle position? This year, DiGiorgio has solidified his spot there. Without his hip injury, it might have been a nice contest to see vs Poz. Nevertheless, he clearly has grabbed, at the very least, his backup position and at a position that we were initially worried about in terms of depth, I for one am glad to see that we might be okay afterall...

[justasportsfan]

I don't think one has to be a "TD styled person" to spin to the media. Anyone who talks to the media, whether it's an athlete, coach, celebrity, politician, etc, has to spin to a certain degree because they're in the public spotlight and they'll be crucified if they say the wrong thing. For example, let's take a hypothetical scenario where Marv thinks DiGiorgio sucks. If he says that, it's going to hurt team chemistry, and if DiG ends up starting anyway, it will either a) make Marv look like an idiot or b) alienate some fans (or both). So, Marv would never say that to the media- he'd spew out some crap about some other player looking better or looking at different players for the position or something like that. It doesn't make him a liar or a dishonest person, there are just some things that you can't say publically.

As far as the team, I agree DL is our biggest weakness at the moment. LB's I'm not so sure about- there is potential, but a lot of potential is never realized. Out of the group, the only proven player is Crowell, and while he's decent, he's not spectacular. But we're not going to agree on that.

I don't like any of our WR's after Evans, but I'm hoping that Evans and Lynch can draw enough pressure that Reed, Price and/or Parrish will be able to make some plays. Same goes for the TE's. However, both Price and Reed have heavily backloaded contracts and will be expensive to keep in the 3rd year of their deals (next season), so something has to give there: they either need to prove they're worth the money this season, restructure, or they'll be cut.

CB isn't quite as scary as the DL but it is scary. Given that the Cover 2 relies on pressure from the front 4, it only makes the job that much more difficult. I'm hoping Webster can be a good stop gap for a season or two until either Youboty emerges or we find someone else.

I like our RB's and the OL should be better. The left side is about as solid as it gets with Peters and Dockery. The right side is questionable- we have a lot of options, which is both good and bad- it's bad that there are no standouts, but it's good that if there is an injury, the drop off in play will be minimal (on the right side- if Peters and/or Dockery get injured, we're in deep ****).Who decides who's spinning or sugarcoating what? You? Both Marv and Dick have been known to be straight shooters , do you have any basis to say otherwise?

I agree that people do sugarcoat things but not on everything. The same thing applies to players.

[OpIv37]

Who decides who's spinning or sugarcoating what? You? Both Marv and Dick have been known to be straight shooters , do you have any basis to say otherwise?

I agree that people do sugarcoat things but not on everything. The same thing applies to players.

well, you're a big fan of wait and see- I like to assume they're sugarcoating while waiting to see if what they said turns out to be accurate.

I guess the point is that when Marv says DiGiorgio is improving to the media, and the only proof we have of DiGiorgio improving is what Marv said, it isn't proof of anything at all. (And this doesn't just go for Marv- it goes for every coach and FO in the league). Maybe Marv is telling the 100% truth, but we don't know until we're given the opportunity to see it with our own eyes. So I'm not going to believe it until I see it.

[justasportsfan]

well, you're a big fan of wait and see- I like to assume they're sugarcoating while waiting to see if what they said turns out to be accurate.

I guess the point is that when Marv says DiGiorgio is improving to the media, and the only proof we have of DiGiorgio improving is what Marv said, it isn't proof of anything at all. (And this doesn't just go for Marv- it goes for every coach and FO in the league). Maybe Marv is telling the 100% truth, but we don't know until we're given the opportunity to see it with our own eyes. So I'm not going to believe it until I see it.


you are also taking the wait and see except that you approach it from a doubting perspective . Same thing ,different approach except that you pretty much called me a homer for the wait and see approach and then do the same thing. :rolleyes:

That goes for players performance or coaches opinions to the media. Don't tell us they are wrong or sugarcoating stuff because you don't know for sure which ones they are sugarcoating.

[SquishDaFish]

Would you two girls stop making every thread about your little love spat

[OpIv37]

you are also taking the wait and see except that you approach it from a doubting perspective . Same thing ,different approach except that you pretty much called me a homer for the wait and see approach and then do the same thing. :rolleyes:

That goes for players performance or coaches opinions to the media. Don't tell us they are wrong or sugarcoating stuff because you don't know for sure which ones they are sugarcoating.

You're right- we don't know which ones they're sugarcoating. But we do know they sugarcoat- you even admitted it.

So, until we have an opportunity to observe with our own eyes, the fact that they sugarcoat is sufficient reason to doubt what they say.

[justasportsfan]

You're right- we don't know which ones they're sugarcoating. But we do know they sugarcoat- you even admitted it

So, until we have an opportunity to observe with our own eyes, the fact that they sugarcoat is sufficient reason to doubt what they say.
yes I admitted it which is why I've always said I take what they say with a grain of salt and wait and see with my own eyes come gameday if what they said is true. Not doubting them nor believing them. If that makes me a Marv yes guy so be it.