Bills/Saints- Some thoughts a day later

[patmoran2006]

The reason why I took an extra day to post any thoughts on the game from Friday night is because I pretty much spent Friday night and all of Saturday hammered, remembering/mourning a very close friend's birthday.

I got up at 7am and watched on the DVR the game in depth over game, and here are a couple of notes I collected to share (in random order)

* It's especially unfortunate now that he's been suspended, but the best player on the defensive line by FAR on Friday night was Hargrove. He was running around in the backfield and making noise all over the place. He had a ton of energy and I was much more impressed with him than anybody up front.

*McCargo and Tripplett-- absolutely nothing, zero.. zilch from them.

* Offensively I was VERY IMPRESSED with Josh Reed and especially Roscoe Parrish. The both got open consistently. I said it weeks ago and I'll say it again-- Peerless Price is going to be in trouble within the next few weeks, especially if Morgan and/or Cornelius step up. Parrish looked really quick and showed good hands. It looks like Losman's confidence in Reed is growing from what I'm gathering.

* Not going to comment about Langston Walker again (did on another thread) except to say I think he's going to be a disaster. didn't really see enough of the rest of the OL (only 12 plays) to have much of an opinion.

* I really liked the way Keith Ellison moves around in this defense. HE didnt really do anything on Friday, but you can see he's got a sense for the ball. I think he's going to make a lot of tackles this year. Tatonka said this off-season he was going to be our version of Cato June. It looks like he could very well be right.

* Jabrari Greer was awesome. Not only did he have two interceptions, his coverage was real tight too. It's not like he was beaten badly and got lucky, he was right on his man all night. I also liked the way Youboty looked. Jason Webster looked like it was the first time he ever played football in his life. I hope that turns around quickly.

* Once Poz got his feet wet (and nerves calmed probably)-- he looked good. He definitely is going to become an upgrade against the run on this defense. Pass coverage looks like he has a long way to go, but that should come in time. his delayed blitz was pretty to watch. Doesnt seem like he's going to miss a lot of tackles either. The biggest thing I think is he'll have to learn how to be in better position covering the pass. As far as DiGorgio, He is NOT starting material, butI dont think he looked as bad as some here think other than the missed tackle.

* I like the fact it looks like McGee will still be the kickoff returner. Special Teams looked in mid-season form already.

* Sounds like Im in the minority, but I like the way Nall moved the offense during his drive with the second unit. He was 5 for 7 and one of those two misses were dropped. he certainly didnt hurt himself in a race for the #2 spot. Edwards through the ball pretty well and looked surprisingly poised, but he's definitely going to have to learn to get rid of the ball quicker of he'll take a beating if he plays during a real game.

* Ko Simpson already looks much-improved.

* Fred Jackson may make things interesting in the backfield.
==========================================================

Summary: Overall, I was very unimpressed with the defense. yes, they didnt give up points-- but they will be playing with fire all season long if give up this kind of yardage and ball control. I get the feeling if the Saints starters had played the whole game (if this was regular season) we would've had at least 27 points put on us.

We only ran 6 plays the first quarter. We allowed 17 of the first 20 passes to be completed. We gave up 18 minutes and 225 yards in the first half. We only got one legitimate QB pressure during Brees 14 pass attempts. WE looked lost at times in coverage.

Sure, you'll get some sacks and turnovers some weeks, but if this front four doesnt find a way to stop the run and get cosistent pressure on the QB on passes, it's going to get very ugly in Buffalo. This defense will wear down as the games go on and the yards pile up. If you're relying on a bend but dont break defense all the time, it's going to add to a lot of close losses.

However, it is just week one of the preseason, Schobel and Whitner didnt play and I'm sure they'd make a difference. Poz didnt start (and he will be) and was just getting his feet wet so they do deserve more slack. Im just saying if they plan on giving up 225 per half and 18 minutes of T.O.P they're going to be in trouble.

Offensively, dont really have an opinion yet. They barely used thier playbook and Lynch was hardly used at all.

[SquishDaFish]

Man this is weird but awesome posting. :clap:

First OP and now you in 2 days. Im used to disagreeing with you two lol.

But awesome post and I totally agree with you.

[Dr. Lecter]

Serious question Pat: How can you have such a solid opinion of Walker after 12 plays, but not the other guys?

[HHURRICANE]

The reason why I took an extra day to post any thoughts on the game from Friday night is because I pretty much spent Friday night and all of Saturday hammered, remembering/mourning a very close friend's birthday.

I got up at 7am and watched on the DVR the game in depth over game, and here are a couple of notes I collected to share (in random order)

* It's especially unfortunate now that he's been suspended, but the best player on the defensive line by FAR on Friday night was Hargrove. He was running around in the backfield and making noise all over the place. He had a ton of energy and I was much more impressed with him than anybody up front.

*McCargo and Tripplett-- absolutely nothing, zero.. zilch from them.

* Offensively I was VERY IMPRESSED with Josh Reed and especially Roscoe Parrish. The both got open consistently. I said it weeks ago and I'll say it again-- Peerless Price is going to be in trouble within the next few weeks, especially if Morgan and/or Cornelius step up. Parrish looked really quick and showed good hands. It looks like Losman's confidence in Reed is growing from what I'm gathering.

* Not going to comment about Langston Walker again (did on another thread) except to say I think he's going to be a disaster. didn't really see enough of the rest of the OL (only 12 plays) to have much of an opinion.

* I really liked the way Keith Ellison moves around in this defense. HE didnt really do anything on Friday, but you can see he's got a sense for the ball. I think he's going to make a lot of tackles this year. Tatonka said this off-season he was going to be our version of Cato June. Even though I personaly think Tatonka is a turdbag, It looks like he could very well be right.

* Jabrari Greer was awesome. Not only did he have two interceptions, his coverage was real tight too. It's not like he was beaten badly and got lucky, he was right on his man all night. I also liked the way Youboty looked. Jason Webster looked like it was the first time he ever played football in his life. I hope that turns around quickly.

* Once Poz got his feet wet (and nerves calmed probably)-- he looked good. He definitely is going to become an upgrade against the run on this defense. Pass coverage looks like he has a long way to go, but that should come in time. his delayed blitz was pretty to watch. Doesnt seem like he's going to miss a lot of tackles either. The biggest thing I think is he'll have to learn how to be in better position covering the pass. As far as DiGorgio, He is NOT starting material, butI dont think he looked as bad as some here think other than the missed tackle.

* I like the fact it looks like McGee will still be the kickoff returner. Special Teams looked in mid-season form already.

* Sounds like Im in the minority, but I like the way Nall moved the offense during his drive with the second unit. He was 5 for 7 and one of those two misses were dropped. he certainly didnt hurt himself in a race for the #2 spot. Edwards through the ball pretty well and looked surprisingly poised, but he's definitely going to have to learn to get rid of the ball quicker of he'll take a beating if he plays during a real game.

* Ko Simpson already looks much-improved.

* Fred Jackson may make things interesting in the backfield.
==========================================================

Summary: Overall, I was very unimpressed with the defense. yes, they didnt give up points-- but they will be playing with fire all season long if give up this kind of yardage and ball control. I get the feeling if the Saints starters had played the whole game (if this was regular season) we would've had at least 27 points put on us.

We only ran 6 plays the first quarter. We allowed 17 of the first 20 passes to be completed. We gave up 18 minutes and 225 yards in the first half. We only got one legitimate QB pressure during Brees 14 pass attempts. WE looked lost at times in coverage.

Sure, you'll get some sacks and turnovers some weeks, but if this front four doesnt find a way to stop the run and get cosistent pressure on the QB on passes, it's going to get very ugly in Buffalo. This defense will wear down as the games go on and the yards pile up. If you're relying on a bend but dont break defense all the time, it's going to add to a lot of close losses.

However, it is just week one of the preseason, Schobel and Whitner didnt play and I'm sure they'd make a difference. Poz didnt start (and he will be) and was just getting his feet wet so they do deserve more slack. Im just saying if they plan on giving up 225 per half and 18 minutes of T.O.P they're going to be in trouble.

Offensively, dont really have an opinion yet. They barely used thier playbook and Lynch was hardly used at all.


Pat, super impressive and I agree with everything. Nice Job!!:bf1:

[Scumbag College]

Serious question Pat: How can you have such a solid opinion of Walker after 12 plays, but not the other guys?

I think after the first preseason game, it's too early to write off anyone...

Judging by the length of time Duke Preston played at RG, the coaching staff isn't completely sold on him either. If, and it's a big if, the coaching staff are unhappy with Walker and don't think he's the starting RT this team has been searching for, why not try him at RG and let Pennington or a healthy Butler try it out at RT?

[Scumbag College]

I did think it is a very good analysis though.

[HHURRICANE]

Langston Walker had success at RG in Oakalnd. RT is where he struggled.

I'm not sure why they have such a hard on for him to be RT. His movement suits the RG position better. Butler and Pennington both showed promise at RT.

Since RG is our biggest weakness this would fix two issues at the same time. Plus Preston is well suited as a backup to Fowler.

[bigbub2352]

I would have to say there is one thing, i was very dumbfounded about Lynch only gettin 2 carries, that was very weird, also is kevin everett even gonna make first cuts, this guy is invisible unless he is playin with no pads on
Poz is the reaql deal and is only gonna get better
We need help at WR, TE, DT, and CB unless Youboty or Greer are the real deal, Walker will be effective but, might hurt us when goin against speed rushers, anyhtin is better than Mike Williams lol
good job Pat

[HHURRICANE]

I would have to say there is one thing, i was very dumbfounded about Lynch only gettin 2 carries,

I am 100% convinced that this is a very good sign. The fact that they don't want him out there tells me that they are pretty confident in his ability.

After what happened to Irons why risk it?

I actually view this as a positive.

[casdhf]

I think that fact that this was the Saints second game and our first game also factors in a bit. We didn't get a scrimage in this year either.

Hopefully the next game sharpens up a bit.

[Goobylal]

I agree with your post pat, except for Walker. I don't know what pre-conceived bias you have against him, but he was NOT the problem on the Bills' O-line on Friday.

[billsburgh]

Serious question Pat: How can you have such a solid opinion of Walker after 12 plays, but not the other guys?
because of what some raider fans told him

[theanswer74]

Was I the only one that laughed at the comment about Walker?

Come on.

Who got beat the worst of any offensive Lineman? Derrick Dockery. It was clear as day, how did you miss that, but managed to see Walker stop blocking on a play that went in the opposite direction?

12 or so plays is not that much to watch, Watch it again, because I dont know what you are seeing. Give your own 12 play breakdown of Walker. I did, so did some others, most did not see what you saw.

I really dont know how to take your analysis seriously after that comment. IMO, your seeing what YOU want to see. However, I do agree with you on many things.

[Oaf]

Other than I believe McCargo and Walker played fine, good post.

Although McCargo didn't have his name called, from what I saw, he effectively held his ground when he had to and forced the RB to redirect. I would like to see some more penetration however.

I liked what I saw from Walker's 12 plays on O, especially in run blocking, and will refer to all the counter arguements posted on your other thread bashing him.

[SquishDaFish]

Yea Pat knows thats the one thing I disagree with him on. He has pure hatred for the guy. I hope he makes the probowl so Pat will eat his foot.

[Goobylal]

Other than I believe McCargo and Walker played fine, good post.

Although McCargo didn't have his name called, from what I saw, he effectively held his ground when he had to and forced the RB to redirect. I would like to see some more penetration however.
If the criticisms of McCargo are that he didn't get enough penetration, then I can understand. But realize that the Bills weren't using any stunts, blitzes, or gameplanning.

[BILLSROCK1212]

i have read a couple threads where i saw people complaining about missed tackles....now i was not able to watch the whole game but it seemed to me that those were more due to the speed of Tyler Palko and Reggie Bush once your done counting at least the missed tackles on Reggie Bush his whole entire life playing football then you'll see why we may have missed a couple tackles but then again isn't there normally a couple of missed tackles in a game

[BILLSROCK1212]

i have read a couple threads where i saw people complaining about missed tackles....now i was not able to watch the whole game but it seemed to me that those were more due to the speed of Tyler Palko and Reggie Bush once your done counting at least the missed tackles on Reggie Bush his whole entire life playing football then you'll see why we may have missed a couple tackles but then again isn't there normally a couple of missed tackles in a game

[patmoran2006]

Quality tackles have 1-2 mistakes per game.

He had that, or more in just 12 freekin plays.

The first pass play he got abused by Grant, forcing Losman out of the pocket... Two running plays he ran out and literally didnt TOUCH a defender. Another pass play he practically fell at Grant's feet and only cause Losman had a quick three step release was he not in any danger.

Other than one passing play where I admit he substained a solid pass block and 1-2 running plays where he stood a guy up (though I didnt see him knock anyone away from the ball) I thought he was very rocky and inconsistent.

Do I have a bias against him? ABsolutely I do and I will openly admit it. I think signing him for $25 million was desperate and deplorable. SO I will watch him MUCH closer than I do other OL. I want to see a mean guy who knocks people f'n 5 yards off the ball or drives them 5 yards outside on a passing play. I saw NONE Of that, and over 4 quarters had he stayed Id almost bet big money he'd have given up a minimum of two sacks to Grant.

He sucks. I hope he moves to RG which is weak too, and they start Pennington sooner than later.

[SquishDaFish]

Same with Dockery. Highest padi Bill ever and he didnt knock anyone on thier asses.

[theanswer74]

Quality tackles have 1-2 mistakes per game.

He had that, or more in just 12 freekin plays.

The first pass play he got abused by Grant, forcing Losman out of the pocket...

Losman was forced that way because of the snap, then Losman went even further to the right in an attempt to scramble, then he reversed his field.



Two running plays he ran out and literally didnt TOUCH a defender.

Never happened.


Another pass play he practically fell at Grant's feet and only cause Losman had a quick three step release was he not in any danger.


OK, find a book called football 101. Its called a cut block, and it worked perfectly. OL are taught to do this on that same type of pass you described Losman did.

Did you see how Grant's hands went down as Walker went down, thats textbook.

Maybe next week Walker will play bad so we can all bash him.

[PECKERWOOD]

Quality tackles have 1-2 mistakes per game.

He had that, or more in just 12 freekin plays.

The first pass play he got abused by Grant, forcing Losman out of the pocket... Two running plays he ran out and literally didnt TOUCH a defender. Another pass play he practically fell at Grant's feet and only cause Losman had a quick three step release was he not in any danger.

Other than one passing play where I admit he substained a solid pass block and 1-2 running plays where he stood a guy up (though I didnt see him knock anyone away from the ball) I thought he was very rocky and inconsistent.

Do I have a bias against him? ABsolutely I do and I will openly admit it. I think signing him for $25 million was desperate and deplorable. SO I will watch him MUCH closer than I do other OL. I want to see a mean guy who knocks people f'n 5 yards off the ball or drives them 5 yards outside on a passing play. I saw NONE Of that, and over 4 quarters had he stayed Id almost bet big money he'd have given up a minimum of two sacks to Grant.

He sucks. I hope he moves to RG which is weak too, and they start Pennington sooner than later.

Your also talking about Smith and Grant. The Saints have one of the best DE tandems in the NFL. Even PRO BOWL OL players would still have trouble with them. If you're expecting Walker to dominate Grant then you obviously aren't paying the guy enough respect. He is a fantastic player.

[jdbillsfan]

I actually thought Walker played pretty good. He picked up a blitzing DB on a stunt, didn't get beat and most of the time kept his man in front of him.

I saw Dockery get beat and what looked like Fowler, but other than that, I thought the starters played good.

[Mitchy moo]

real nice pat, thx.

[billsburgh]

He sucks. I hope he moves to RG which is weak too, and they start Pennington sooner than later.
if Pennington is so good they wouldn't have been so desperate to sign Walker. Did you ever consider that?

[billsburgh]

Losman was forced that way because of the snap, then Losman went even further to the right in an attempt to scramble, then he reversed his field.



Never happened.



OK, find a book called football 101. Its called a cut block, and it worked perfectly. OL are taught to do this on that same type of pass you described Losman did.

Did you see how Grant's hands went down as Walker went down, thats textbook.

Maybe next week Walker will play bad so we can all bash him.
pwned

[mysticsoto]

if Pennington is so good they wouldn't have been so desperate to sign Walker. Did you ever consider that?

Though I liked Pennington, last year they frequently had to keep in a TE to help him out. The whole point of getting Walker is that now we don't have to do that...Pat wants supernatural plays by Walker. It's not his job to pancake a DE or put them on their ass 5 yards out. It's his job to keep them from getting to JP - period! And I think he was effective Friday...

[billsburgh]

Though I liked Pennington, last year they frequently had to keep in a TE to help him out. The whole point of getting Walker is that now we don't have to do that...Pat wants supernatural plays by Walker. It's not his job to pancake a DE or put them on their ass 5 yards out. It's his job to keep them from getting to JP - period! And I think he was effective Friday...
:bf1: exactly

[Tatonka]

because of what some raider fans told him

:rofl:

[Tatonka]

Quality tackles have 1-2 mistakes per game.

He had that, or more in just 12 freekin plays.

The first pass play he got abused by Grant, forcing Losman out of the pocket... Two running plays he ran out and literally didnt TOUCH a defender. Another pass play he practically fell at Grant's feet and only cause Losman had a quick three step release was he not in any danger.

Other than one passing play where I admit he substained a solid pass block and 1-2 running plays where he stood a guy up (though I didnt see him knock anyone away from the ball) I thought he was very rocky and inconsistent.

Do I have a bias against him? ABsolutely I do and I will openly admit it. I think signing him for $25 million was desperate and deplorable. SO I will watch him MUCH closer than I do other OL. I want to see a mean guy who knocks people f'n 5 yards off the ball or drives them 5 yards outside on a passing play. I saw NONE Of that, and over 4 quarters had he stayed Id almost bet big money he'd have given up a minimum of two sacks to Grant.

He sucks. I hope he moves to RG which is weak too, and they start Pennington sooner than later.

so you just admitted that your biased, you dont watch other lineman closely.. and you are looking for things to **** on w/ walker.. yeah.. your opinion should clearly be valued as accurate.. despite all those things..

great reporting.

:bf1:

[patmoran2006]

Though I liked Pennington, last year they frequently had to keep in a TE to help him out. The whole point of getting Walker is that now we don't have to do that...Pat wants supernatural plays by Walker. It's not his job to pancake a DE or put them on their ass 5 yards out. It's his job to keep them from getting to JP - period! And I think he was effective Friday...
There were two pass plays where Walker had help on the pass rush Friday-- out of what, 6 passes?

This guy is a fat scrub and sooner than later, and likely MUCH SOONER you'll all see it.

[patmoran2006]

so you just admitted that your biased, you dont watch other lineman closely.. and you are looking for things to **** on w/ walker.. yeah.. your opinion should clearly be valued as accurate.. despite all those things..

great reporting.

:bf1:

I am biased against him.. He's a fat peice of **** and he sucks, and TRUST ME you'll see that in a matter of a few short weeks.

I dont need to watch Dockery and Peters and Fowler as close for right now; because I already know what they can/will do.

And I offered up my "thoughts".. Hence the title thread.

It's not "reporting"

[TigerJ]

I'm going to hold off on the offensive line for a while. They may need a little more time to gel. I need to see improvement each week though.

[mysticsoto]

There were two pass plays where Walker had help on the pass rush Friday-- out of what, 6 passes?

This guy is a fat scrub and sooner than later, and likely MUCH SOONER you'll all see it.

Getting help 2 out of 6 times is still better than Pennington who unfortunately needed help 6 out of 6 times. I imagine Pennington will get better, but for now, Walker has done okay. If I see him suck as you claim he will, I will be happy to jump on the Walker sucks bandwagon. But 1 preseason game is hardly enough to make any judgements on him or anyone else!