I think the arguing should stop

[Typ0]

Just give it up people. Wait a few weeks and the real games will start being played. And then it will be quite evident that the team has some glaring weaknesses that will be grossly exploited resulting in losses. I figure around week three the homers are going to start proclaiming "we are on the right track to win the superbowl NEXT YEAR." What a bunch of tools. It's great we have top knotch special teams though...too bad the two units that are on the field most are not that good. I'm looking forward to the season...but I'm looking forward to the potential of pulling maybe an upset or two not going to the playoffs. If we make the playoffs this year I'll eat a double order of suicide wings at the opener next season.

[HHURRICANE]

Just give it up people. Wait a few weeks and the real games will start being played. And then it will be quite evident that the team has some glaring weaknesses that will be grossly exploited resulting in losses. I figure around week three the homers are going to start proclaiming "we are on the right track to win the superbowl NEXT YEAR." What a bunch of tools. It's great we have top knotch special teams though...too bad the two units that are on the field most are not that good. I'm looking forward to the season...but I'm looking forward to the potential of pulling maybe an upset or two not going to the playoffs. If we make the playoffs this year I'll eat a double order of suicide wings and the opener next season.:bf1:

[Typ0]

let's see...the offense got a step better and the defense took four steps backward. It will be a miracle if we don't get into double digit losses this year. I can hear the "it's going to be a tough year" pain in DJs voice every time I hear him speak.

[Mitchy moo]

In reality we cannot say how much better or worse we are from last year until we get our FULL roster together and play some regular season games. Check in after game 4 and let's see how we look then, until then all I will say if ST wins SB's then we are a lock for rings (they don't).

[Typ0]

In reality we cannot say how much better or worse we are from last year until we get our FULL roster together and play some regular season games. Check in after game 4 and let's see how we look then, until then all I will say if ST wins SB's then we are a lock for rings (they don't).

You're right...we're REALLY going to be looking forward to that JET game in week four!

[shelby]

i think we will be a better team this season.
Is that so wrong?

[HHURRICANE]

i think we will be a better team this season.
Is that so wrong?

The sad part is that had if we had done what we said we were going to do which was to address BOTH lines we would be a much improved team this year.

I actually believe that we are only 2 DLs away from making a wildcard game. Giving Darwin Walker the impression he could walk and letting him is looking like a major mistake.

Any vets that could help save this D?!

[Typ0]

i think we will be a better team this season.
Is that so wrong?


not at all. You are entitled to your opinion. You are much more a middle of the roader than a blatant homer anyway.

[Dr. Lecter]

I too think their record will be better. The team was much improved int eh 2nd half of last season. The defense is young and will have 2nd year players instead of rookies. Players that did not fit the system are gone, replaced by guys that do fit the system. The defense has had a full year to play in the system and that should help. The Bills have the same QB and offensive coordinator for the first time in 7 years.

They are highly unlikey to win it all this year, but I can see an improvement from last season.

[Typ0]

I too think their record will be better. The team was much improved int eh 2nd half of last season. The defense is young and will have 2nd year players instead of rookies. Players that did not fit the system are gone, replaced by guys that do fit the system. The defense has had a full year to play in the system and that should help. The Bills have the same QB and offensive coordinator for the first time in 7 years.

They are highly unlikey to win it all this year, but I can see an improvement from last season.

that's great as long as our improvements are good enough to beat:

Denver
Pittsburg
New England
Dallas
Baltimore
Cincinatti
Washington
New York Giants
Philadelphia

and JETS, CRYAMI and JAX stay the same as they were at.

I'm sorry, but our team has not gotten better as a whole. The DL is horriffic. We lost one of the top corners in the league as well as LBs. We still have marginal receivers behind Lee Evans. Our schedule is brutal this year and last year it was just average. In terms of wins, I don't see us getting better and like I said I'd be surprised to win the 7 we won last season.

[Typ0]

keep the negs coming homers!

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

Arguing should stop?

Arguing season just started and it won't end until February.

[Typ0]

Arguing should stop?

Arguing season just started and it won't end until February.

what are you trying to say here? Whatever it is you're wrong unless you are right.

[DraftBoy]

Arguing should stop?

Arguing season just started and it won't end until February.


I disagree it doesnt end till May after the Draft happens

[DraftBoy]

I think we'll likely see about the same record as last year but some marked improvement in skill areas, just not enough to put together wins.

[Tatonka]

Just give it up people. Wait a few weeks and the real games will start being played. And then it will be quite evident that the team has some glaring weaknesses that will be grossly exploited resulting in losses. I figure around week three the homers are going to start proclaiming "we are on the right track to win the superbowl NEXT YEAR." What a bunch of tools. It's great we have top knotch special teams though...too bad the two units that are on the field most are not that good. I'm looking forward to the season...but I'm looking forward to the potential of pulling maybe an upset or two not going to the playoffs. If we make the playoffs this year I'll eat a double order of suicide wings and the opener next season.


so start out by saying you want to stop the arguing..

then call people tools...

then state that the bills offense and defense sucks..

then state you'll eat 2 orders of wings if they go to the playoffs..

:down:

[chernobylwraiths]

If we make the playoffs this year I'll eat a double order of suicide wings and the opener next season.

Is that a bottle opener, can opener, electric can opener? I just want to make sure. :D

[Typ0]

so start out by saying you want to stop the arguing..

then call people tools...

then state that the bills offense and defense sucks..

then state you'll eat 2 orders of wings if they go to the playoffs..

:down:

exactly what I expected to hear from you!

[Typ0]

Is that a bottle opener, can opener, electric can opener? I just want to make sure. :D


oops...meant to say AT the opener. Post edited and situation corrected. So if we make the playoffs this year you can expect to see me at the opener eating wings next season (as long as the bills are still in buffalo -- if they move I can't be held responsible to this and the travel time).

[Tatonka]

exactly what I expected to hear from you!

why is that?

[OpIv37]

i think we will be a better team this season.
Is that so wrong?

depends what you mean by "wrong". You have a right to your own opinion as does everyone here, so from that standpoint, it is not "wrong".

However, it is "wrong" when "wrong" means "incorrect". We have no experience and limited talent at LB. We are hurting at CB. DL is just a joke. On offense, on paper we should be better with the improved OL but it certainly didn't show on the field. ST is good as always. But all that added together, I just don't see how anyone can come to the conclusion that we're better. Younger and cheaper do not necessarily equal better.

[mysticsoto]

depends what you mean by "wrong". You have a right to your own opinion as does everyone here, so from that standpoint, it is not "wrong".

However, it is "wrong" when "wrong" means "incorrect". We have no experience and limited talent at LB. We are hurting at CB. DL is just a joke. On offense, on paper we should be better with the improved OL but it certainly didn't show on the field. ST is good as always. But all that added together, I just don't see how anyone can come to the conclusion that we're better. Younger and cheaper do not necessarily equal better.

Nor do they necessarily equal worse. Why don't we wait a few more games before we make decisions...

[OpIv37]

Nor do they necessarily equal worse. Why don't we wait a few more games before we make decisions...

because we've seen these guys play before and we saw them play again on Friday night. It's all speculation at this point, but certainly some outcomes are a lot more likely than others.

[mysticsoto]

because we've seen these guys play before and we saw them play again on Friday night. It's all speculation at this point, but certainly some outcomes are a lot more likely than others.

Really? You've seen Poz play in our defense before? Youboty? Seen McCargo much? An improved DiGiorgio? Lynch? Walker?

Seems like there's a fair amount of people you haven't seen play on our team - yet you post like the entire season's outcome is inevitable to your negative way of thinking!

Then again, why would I think that's any different than you posting in the present about people you hadn't even seen since last year...

[theanswer74]

Without arguing, there would be no message boards.

[Typ0]

The defense took 4 steps back? All this just after one preseason game???

the preseason game means nothing. Just based on the losses we had and the lack of additions we needed.

[Dr. Lecter]

Without arguing, there would be no message boards.

Oh shut up. Yes there would be.

[justasportsfan]

typo just started another thread for arguing :snicker:

You can't stop people from arguing especially when some people get bent out of shape over 1 preseason game. That's just silly and the rest of us will point it out.

[OpIv37]

Really? You've seen Poz play in our defense before? Youboty? Seen McCargo much? An improved DiGiorgio? Lynch? Walker?

Seems like there's a fair amount of people you haven't seen play on our team - yet you post like the entire season's outcome is inevitable to your negative way of thinking!

Then again, why would I think that's any different than you posting in the present about people you hadn't even seen since last year...

Do you know DiGiorgio is improved? No. McCargo played a lot on Fri and looked pretty bad, even against the scrubs. I can't believe you honestly think a 2nd year guy with no game experience coming off an injury and 2 surgeries has an equal chance of being good or bad.

Youboty looked ok on Friday but everything else I've heard about him has been bad. Again- 2nd year guy with no experience. DiGiorgio- 2nd year guy with limitied experience. He didn't look awful on Friday but didn't look stellar either. He seemed to be getting to the right place on running plays but out of position on pass plays.

None of these guys have proven ****, and you just expect ALL of them (or even enough of them to make a difference) to suddenly do something they've never proven they can do. That is completely unrealistic.

[OpIv37]

typo just started another thread for arguing :snicker:

You can't stop people from arguing especially when some people get bent out of shape over 1 preseason game. That's just silly and the rest of us will point it out.

hahahaha just wait and see, wait and see, wait and see....

at what point does justa allow us to evaluate players and the team? Seems like it's not allowed until it's too late and we're losing games.

Our players were ON THE FIELD PLAYING FOOTBALL and it's still not good enough to evaluate the team. What a crock.

[Dr. Lecter]

at what point does justa allow us to evaluate players and the team? Seems like it's not allowed until it's too late and we're losing games.



Can't one evaluate after winning games too?

[OpIv37]

Can't one evaluate after winning games too?

I suppose but once the season starts there are more losses than wins.

[Typ0]

Can't one evaluate after winning games too?


then you admit. It's very unlikely we will be winning games and we'll have to evaluate after losses.

[justasportsfan]

hahahaha just wait and see, wait and see, wait and see....

at what point does justa allow us to evaluate players and the team? Seems like it's not allowed until it's too late and we're losing games.

Our players were ON THE FIELD PLAYING FOOTBALL and it's still not good enough to evaluate the team. What a crock.

evaluating players in the first preseason game is stupid. It's lame. You're just *****ing for the sake of *****ing.

[OpIv37]

evaluating players in the first preseason game is stupid. It's lame. You're just *****ing for the sake of *****ing.

Really? well the coaches determine the depth chart and who makes the team by EVALUATING how they play in pre season games. Guess the coaches are stupid.

And players who suck in pre season NEVER suck in the regular season- that's NEVER happened. Please.

[Typ0]

evaluating players in the first preseason game is stupid. It's lame. You're just *****ing for the sake of *****ing.

if you aren't evaluating the players then what good is it?

[justasportsfan]

Really? well the coaches determine the depth chart and who makes the team by EVALUATING how they play in pre season games. Guess the coaches are stupid.

And players who suck in pre season NEVER suck in the regular season- that's NEVER happened. Please.
The coaches know that they didn't put our players in a position to win. To shine. They didn't prepare them to win this game unlike the Saints. I doubt they even called plays to stop the saints.

I'm almost sure our coaches told the players , "get your feet wet and don't get injured".

In the meantime the saints !st team were all out to win and got away with just 3 points.


If you can't see the big picture then I will remain that you are *****ing just to *****.

[raphael120]

Really? You've seen Poz play in our defense before? Youboty? Seen McCargo much? An improved DiGiorgio? Lynch? Walker?

Seems like there's a fair amount of people you haven't seen play on our team - yet you post like the entire season's outcome is inevitable to your negative way of thinking!

Then again, why would I think that's any different than you posting in the present about people you hadn't even seen since last year...

:lol:

an improved DiGiorgio?

:lmao:

Thats like sayin "an even more polished turd"

[justasportsfan]

if you aren't evaluating the players then what good is it?

1st preseason game? Get their feet wet. Why do you think they only played a certain amount of reps no matter what the outcome was?

Dick would be an idiot if he told guys like Kelsay to go all out and risk injury.

[jamze132]

I can't possible make an honest assessment of this years team after one pre-season game which, by the way, we did win, on the road, against the team with the best offense last year and who had one pre-season game under their belt already.

But the fact of the matter is their isn't one person on this board who has a clue how the season is going to unfold. But there seems to be a lot of people on this board that seem to know how much we already suck. But all they can do is ASSUME what will happen based on what they perceive of the organization.

I don't know how many games the Bills are going to win this year and I can't say how many games we "will be lucky to win".

And anyone who attacks another poster because they don't share the same views needs to re-examine their life.

[raphael120]

The coaches know that they didn't put our players in a position to win. To shine. They didn't prepare them to win this game unlike the Saints. I doubt they even called plays to stop the saints.

I'm almost sure our coaches told the players , "get your feet wet and don't get injured".

In the meantime the saints !st team were all out to win and got away with just 3 points.


If you can't see the big picture then I will remain that you are *****ing just to *****.

People who are fighting for a roster spot are NOT "just getting their feet wet".

[justasportsfan]

I can't possible make an honest assessment of this years team after one pre-season game which, by the way, we did win, on the road, against the team with the best offense last year and who had one pre-season game under their belt already.

.
Amen.

[DraftBoy]

The coaches know that they didn't put our players in a position to win. To shine. They didn't prepare them to win this game unlike the Saints. I doubt they even called plays to stop the saints.

I'm almost sure our coaches told the players , "get your feet wet and don't get injured".

In the meantime the saints !st team were all out to win and got away with just 3 points.


If you can't see the big picture then I will remain that you are *****ing just to *****.


This may be the most illogical, least thought out, argumentative post Ive seen on here. Coaches not calling plays to even stop the Saints? Come on Justa now your defending the team just for the sake of it, not because its even logical to do so.

[justasportsfan]

People who are fighting for a roster spot are NOT "just getting their feet wet".

2nd and 3rd team , I agree.

[OpIv37]

The coaches know that they didn't put our players in a position to win. To shine. They didn't prepare them to win this game unlike the Saints. I doubt they even called plays to stop the saints.

I'm almost sure our coaches told the players , "get your feet wet and don't get injured".

In the meantime the saints !st team were all out to win and got away with just 3 points.


If you can't see the big picture then I will remain that you are *****ing just to *****.

why does everyone seem to think that the saints were "in it to win"? Why are their pre season goals so much different than ours?

No, I'm *****ing because the football team that I want to win looks like ****. If you seriously watched that game and thought the team looked impressive, you wouldn't have to make excuses like "the Saints were in it to win and we weren't".

[Typ0]

This may be the most illogical, least thought out, argumentative post Ive seen on here. Coaches not calling plays to even stop the Saints? Come on Justa now your defending the team just for the sake of it, not because its even logical to do so.

it's not that rediculous. Aint's were in their second game vs our first. You know every nuance of how and NFL team prepares for the season do you?

[justasportsfan]

This may be the most illogical, least thought out, argumentative post Ive seen on here. Coaches not calling plays to even stop the Saints? Come on Justa now your defending the team just for the sake of it, not because its even logical to do so.


They were calling VANILLA plays. Do you understand what that means?DO you have better sources than the coaches themselves ?

Do teams call vanilla plays to win games in regualr season? NO.
Did you not see POWELL in their against their first team? I Did.

If the team players looked bad trying to stop the saints, it's because the coaches put them in that situation.

[DraftBoy]

it's not that rediculous. Aint's were in their second game vs our first. You know every nuance of how and NFL team prepares for the season do you?


No but I do know that a coach doesnt sit there and say well they are throwing all over us, I guess I should continue to concentrate on our run defense ho hum. Thats what Justa is insinuating here is that DJ and staff had certain things they wanted to see regardless of what the Saints did or didnt do, which doesnt make any sense. You dont sit there and let another team just kick you ass up and down the field and not see if your D can do anything to stop it but rather concentrate on other things. There job is to make sure the D or team as a whole is ready for all situations not one or two things. We have practices to work on individual things, games are for overall cohesive work.

[DraftBoy]

They were calling VANILLA plays. Do you understand what that means?DO you have better sources than the coaches themselves ?

Do teams call vanilla plays to win games in regualr season? NO.
Did you not see POWELL in their against their first team? I Did.

If the team players looked bad trying to stop the saints, it's because the coaches put them in that situation.


Thats not what you said though, you said they werent calling plays to even try and stop the saints, which is completely different ballgame.

[justasportsfan]

No, I'm *****ing because the football team that I want to win looks like ****. If you seriously watched that game and thought the team looked impressive, you wouldn't have to make excuses like "the Saints were in it to win and we weren't".


Again, it's a matter of perception. When I factor in everything, they weren't that bad. Like I siad you make the smallest things look like the SKY IS FALLING.

[OpIv37]

They were calling VANILLA plays. Do you understand what that means?DO you have better sources than the coaches themselves ?

Do teams call vanilla plays to win games in regualr season? NO.
Did you not see POWELL in their against their first team? I Did.

If the team players looked bad trying to stop the saints, it's because the coaches put them in that situation.

yeah, it has NOTHING to do with a lack of talent or players not being good enough. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault.

[Typ0]

No but I do know that a coach doesnt sit there and say well they are throwing all over us, I guess I should continue to concentrate on our run defense ho hum. Thats what Justa is insinuating here is that DJ and staff had certain things they wanted to see regardless of what the Saints did or didnt do, which doesnt make any sense. You dont sit there and let another team just kick you ass up and down the field and not see if your D can do anything to stop it but rather concentrate on other things. There job is to make sure the D or team as a whole is ready for all situations not one or two things. We have practices to work on individual things, games are for overall cohesive work.


I wouldn't at all be surprised to find out they had a well designed "rehearsal" schedule and stuck to it no matter what NO did. Maybe they wanted to look at specific things when they had specific personnel on the field and that's what they did.

[justasportsfan]

Thats not what you said though, you said they werent calling plays to even try and stop the saints, which is completely different ballgame.


Oh PUHlease. Sorry, next time I'll put vanilla in there so you can understand.

[DraftBoy]

I wouldn't at all be surprised to find out they had a well designed "rehearsal" schedule and stuck to it no matter what NO did. Maybe they wanted to look at specific things when they had specific personnel on the field and that's what they did.

If what you say is true that I have even less faith in this staff than before, true yes the staff is looking for certain things during the preseason but seeing a team beating us one way and not even attempting to stop it not only demoralizes the team and fanbase in that area of play, but also shows ineptitude on the part of the staff, imo.

[Typ0]

how many defensive plays were there? Maybe 60? And they are trying to evaluate 40 defensive players.

[DraftBoy]

Oh PUHlease. Sorry, next time I'll put vanilla in there so you can understand.


next time you may want to choose your words more carefully since you cant defend your own point, being vanilla and playing backup is different from not calling plays to stop the Saints are you said. Please continue on with this amazing line of logic of yours.

[DraftBoy]

how many defensive plays were there? Maybe 60? And they are trying to evaluate 40 defensive players.


Yes but we need to evaluate these players in every situation not just specific ones

[Typ0]

If what you say is true that I have even less faith in this staff than before, true yes the staff is looking for certain things during the preseason but seeing a team beating us one way and not even attempting to stop it not only demoralizes the team and fanbase in that area of play, but also shows ineptitude on the part of the staff, imo.

that's where you are wrong. It's about priorities. As a fan winning is your only priority apparently. The priority of the coaching staff is making the right personnel choices. That's not to say the guys they sent out there weren't supposed to try and win it just means win or loss means absolutly nothing and getting the right personnel means everything.

[DraftBoy]

that's where you are wrong. It's about priorities. As a fan winning is your only priority apparently. The priority of the coaching staff is making the right personnel choices. That's not to say the guys they sent out there weren't supposed to try and win it just means win or loss means absolutly nothing and getting the right personnel means everything.


I have no qualm with that at all, where are we disagreeing again?

[Typ0]

Yes but we need to evaluate these players in every situation not just specific ones

every situation isn't going to arise...and just chasing the situations that are there is going to leave a lot of stones unturned. That's why they would approach it like I say. Because they have experience and they know players...they know what their concerns are and have to make sure they see the things that will inform their decisions based on their concerns. What NO does on third down in a meaningless game is irrelevant.

[justasportsfan]

next time you may want to choose your words more carefully since you cant defend your own point, being vanilla and playing backup is different from not calling plays to stop the Saints are you said. Please continue on with this amazing line of logic of yours.


My bad. I'll try to remember who I'm talking to and maybe simplify things for ya ;)

[Typ0]

I have no qualm with that at all, where are we disagreeing again?


because you seem to be saying we didn't make the right half time adjustments or something and that type of coaching is not taking place in the preseason.

[DraftBoy]

because you seem to be saying we didn't make the right half time adjustments or something and that type of coaching is not taking place in the preseason.


no my comment was in relation to Justa inference that the coaches were making no effort to even stop the saints in any progress they were making, which I contend is not only wrong, but dangerous. Why would we see our team get beat up top continuously and still sit there and call run defense, it doesnt make any sense, of course they would call a new pass coverage of some type.

[DraftBoy]

My bad. I'll try to remember who I'm talking to and maybe simplify things for ya ;)


:rofl: Yea....:millhouse

[Typ0]

no my comment was in relation to Justa inference that the coaches were making no effort to even stop the saints in any progress they were making, which I contend is not only wrong, but dangerous. Why would we see our team get beat up top continuously and still sit there and call run defense, it doesnt make any sense, of course they would call a new pass coverage of some type.

Or, maybe they would just leave the run defense out their in misery in hopes they will work through some of the challenges when the pass comes before opening day. In your scenario they will have to work them out in a real game.

[Typ0]

honestly DraftBoy, I don't know you or anything but I wonder if you have any experience putting a decent sized team together to do anything. You really do make choices about what you are evaluating before practice time and then you follow through with it. If you don't it becomes impossible to plan and organize what you are doing. And then you also put people in bad situations sometimes to see how they respond.

[DraftBoy]

honestly DraftBoy, I don't know you or anything but I wonder if you have any experience putting a decent sized team together to do anything. You really do make choices about what you are evaluating before practice time and then you follow through with it. If you don't it becomes impossible to plan and organize what you are doing. And then you also put people in bad situations sometimes to see how they respond.

What? You dont just sit there and run a completely scripted plan in football and hope and pray it comes through, because then you are sol. If you sit there and are getting beat badly through the air yet continue to concentrate on stopping the run then how are you supposed to ever know how those players will do when playing to try and stop the pass?

[Bufftp]

I think we'll likely see about the same record as last year but some marked improvement in skill areas, just not enough to put together wins.
Argumet season starts just after the draft.

[mysticsoto]

Do you know DiGiorgio is improved? No. McCargo played a lot on Fri and looked pretty bad, even against the scrubs. I can't believe you honestly think a 2nd year guy with no game experience coming off an injury and 2 surgeries has an equal chance of being good or bad.

Youboty looked ok on Friday but everything else I've heard about him has been bad. Again- 2nd year guy with no experience. DiGiorgio- 2nd year guy with limitied experience. He didn't look awful on Friday but didn't look stellar either. He seemed to be getting to the right place on running plays but out of position on pass plays.

None of these guys have proven ****, and you just expect ALL of them (or even enough of them to make a difference) to suddenly do something they've never proven they can do. That is completely unrealistic.

So McCargo and virtually all players are working some rust out, and b'cse of this, the season is going to suck and is over? Weren't you *****ing when JP was out during the 1st day of practice b'cse he "needed to be in there" working out and getting better? But I guess nobody else can get in there in games and get better as they go? Players can't improve in your eyes - as a GM, you'd never have rookies on your team and you'd have an aging offense and defense b'cse you can't seem to understand that young players can improve and right now, the team has many young players than can improve.

Who knows how well the defense might improve by having Schobel and Whitner start? If you look at the game, a good portion of the pass defense was crap b'cse of Leonard. Yeah, the Dline didn't rush the QB much - but how could they? He didn't need alot of time to throw b'cse he kept finding someone open quickly...many times it was whoever was in Leonard's coverage area!

They did do a very decent job of stopping the run only allowing Reggie Bush (a great RB) to 2 nice runs, otherwise stuffing it completely and allowing a high octane offense to only score 3 pts in an entire quarter!!! Clearly they have work to do to be better, but I'll be damned if the season is over after one preseason game like you sometimes try and make it sound!!!

[justasportsfan]

So McCargo and virtually all players are working some rust out, and b'cse of this, the season is going to suck and is over? !that's pretty much it. When did you become so smart?




.

Who knows how well the defense might improve by having Schobel and Whitner start? !!!OOps you took one step back. OP knows.



If you look at the game, a good portion of the pass defense was crap b'cse of Leonard. !!! shutup , I blame Powell



Yeah, the Dline didn't rush the QB much - but how could they? !!! pffft. They should've easily handled the OL with their vanilla rush.



They did do a very decent job of stopping the run only allowing Reggie Bush (a great RB) to 2 nice runs, otherwise stuffing it completely and allowing a high octane offense to only score 3 pts in an entire quarter!!! Clearly they have work to do to be better, that was all Leonard.



but I'll be damned if the season is over after one preseason game like you sometimes try and make it sound!!!RIP.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I disagree it doesnt end till May after the Draft happens


My bad.

[Typ0]

Argumet season starts just after the draft.

and it ends right before the draft. Draft time is a peace accord.

[DraftBoy]

and it ends right before the draft. Draft time is a peace accord.


pfft, not for us draft nerds its not :millhouse

[OpIv37]

So McCargo and virtually all players are working some rust out, and b'cse of this, the season is going to suck and is over? Weren't you *****ing when JP was out during the 1st day of practice b'cse he "needed to be in there" working out and getting better? But I guess nobody else can get in there in games and get better as they go? Players can't improve in your eyes - as a GM, you'd never have rookies on your team and you'd have an aging offense and defense b'cse you can't seem to understand that young players can improve and right now, the team has many young players than can improve.

Who knows how well the defense might improve by having Schobel and Whitner start? If you look at the game, a good portion of the pass defense was crap b'cse of Leonard. Yeah, the Dline didn't rush the QB much - but how could they? He didn't need alot of time to throw b'cse he kept finding someone open quickly...many times it was whoever was in Leonard's coverage area!

They did do a very decent job of stopping the run only allowing Reggie Bush (a great RB) to 2 nice runs, otherwise stuffing it completely and allowing a high octane offense to only score 3 pts in an entire quarter!!! Clearly they have work to do to be better, but I'll be damned if the season is over after one preseason game like you sometimes try and make it sound!!!

We've been over this before- players can't improve enough in one year to improve on the 28th run D with no additional talent, especially when there is a net loss of talent.

I keep hearing about how another year in the system is supposed to benefit these guys, but now they're rusty? So which is it- does time working in the system make players improve or make them rusty?

Leonhard was not single-handedly responsible for all the holes in the pass D so don't kid yourself there. Those quick throws were to the LB's coverage area- how can you have a quick throw to a safety's cover area in a 2-deep zone? That makes no sense.

The DL was completely blown off the ball on the run. Reggie Bush's average notwithstanding- it was in spite of the DL and not because of it.

[mysticsoto]

We've been over this before- players can't improve enough in one year to improve on the 28th run D with no additional talent, especially when there is a net loss of talent.

I keep hearing about how another year in the system is supposed to benefit these guys, but now they're rusty? So which is it- does time working in the system make players improve or make them rusty?

Leonhard was not single-handedly responsible for all the holes in the pass D so don't kid yourself there. Those quick throws were to the LB's coverage area- how can you have a quick throw to a safety's cover area in a 2-deep zone? That makes no sense.

The DL was completely blown off the ball on the run. Reggie Bush's average notwithstanding- it was in spite of the DL and not because of it.

It's the 1st preseason game...but no...the players can't be rusty from not having played a full game since last December - do you hear how idiotic that sounds? Of course their rusty...it was McCargo's 1st game back since last October, it was Walker's 1st game as a Bill. There were all sorts of differences in the game. Leonard was a starter where he clearly does not belong. Schobel wasn't manning left side...I mean we can make a whole list of things that are new to our team. The Saints on the other hand looked crappy on their 1st game (can we say they had rust also) and much more solid in their 2nd game - a game they were trying hard to win. They also used their #1 RB in the 1st quarter while we did not.

BTW, watch the game again, and you will see how often Leonard was out of position. They did not play a true cover-2. You'll often see a LB or even a S at the line of scrimmage...

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

keep the negs coming homers!

cant see a reason for laying negs on TypO for stating an opinion.... he was not disrespectful in his argument, and in fact there is ample evidence to support his suppositions.

I'm as homer as it gets, but I fear a long and ardious season lies ahead after seeing what transpired with our vaunted defense.

first preseason game or not, this group got pushed around like a D2 line, not an NFL line.

Sorry you got negged typo! I dont have much pos rep to give, but I'll lay a few on you :)

[Typ0]

What? You dont just sit there and run a completely scripted plan in football and hope and pray it comes through, because then you are sol. If you sit there and are getting beat badly through the air yet continue to concentrate on stopping the run then how are you supposed to ever know how those players will do when playing to try and stop the pass?


maybe, just maybe, you are so extreemly concerned about your run defense that you want that unit to get as much work and have the ability to do player evaluation as much as you can. And in the next game, or third game, you are going to work on the pass defense. That's the point I'm trying to make. Maybe you are desparate to see as much from the run not stopping unit before the first round of cuts that's what you are looking at.

You want the guys out there trying the win the game yes, but adjusting and trying to win could easily be the furthest thing from the coaches minds.

[Typ0]

cant see a reason for laying negs on TypO for stating an opinion.... he was not disrespectful in his argument, and in fact there is ample evidence to support his suppositions.

I'm as homer as it gets, but I fear a long and ardious season lies ahead after seeing what transpired with our vaunted defense.

first preseason game or not, this group got pushed around like a D2 line, not an NFL line.

Sorry you got negged typo! I dont have much pos rep to give, but I'll lay a few on you :)

thanks keith, looks like there is another rational keith out there. I think the negs are funny you should see some of the stuff they say!

[Wys Guy]

i think we will be a better team this season.
Is that so wrong?

LOL

No, of course not. But you're not out there insinuating, implying, and suggesting that those that don't agree with you are ignoramouses and not true fans. ;)

[OpIv37]

It's the 1st preseason game...but no...the players can't be rusty from not having played a full game since last December - do you hear how idiotic that sounds? Of course their rusty...it was McCargo's 1st game back since last October, it was Walker's 1st game as a Bill. There were all sorts of differences in the game. Leonard was a starter where he clearly does not belong. Schobel wasn't manning left side...I mean we can make a whole list of things that are new to our team. The Saints on the other hand looked crappy on their 1st game (can we say they had rust also) and much more solid in their 2nd game - a game they were trying hard to win. They also used their #1 RB in the 1st quarter while we did not.

BTW, watch the game again, and you will see how often Leonard was out of position. They did not play a true cover-2. You'll often see a LB or even a S at the line of scrimmage...

why is it accepted as fact that NO was trying to win? It was pre-season for them too- I don't know why people are so willing to accept that NO was trying to win while we were standing there with our thumbs up our asses letting them move the ball. It's completely illogical. "Oh, it's their 2nd game so they were trying to win". WTF?

If we weren't playing a true cover 2, why not? Are we playing a cover 2 during the season, or are we changing base D's yet again? You have to practice how you play.

And you're arguing semantics on the #1 RB- currently A Train is our #1 RB. Now, he probably won't be the #1 RB when the season starts, but at the moment, he is.

[mysticsoto]

why is it accepted as fact that NO was trying to win? It was pre-season for them too- I don't know why people are so willing to accept that NO was trying to win while we were standing there with our thumbs up our asses letting them move the ball. It's completely illogical. "Oh, it's their 2nd game so they were trying to win". WTF?

If we weren't playing a true cover 2, why not? Are we playing a cover 2 during the season, or are we changing base D's yet again? You have to practice how you play.

And you're arguing semantics on the #1 RB- currently A Train is our #1 RB. Now, he probably won't be the #1 RB when the season starts, but at the moment, he is.

Op, it is clear that you will try and find any little piece to substantiate your negative view and ignore anything positive that refutes it. It is clear NO was trying to win - just look at the calls they were making! Don't be so dense. Even the analysts on TV mentioned it. Look how much Palko or whatever his name is, played. They hardly gave any time to the 3rd string QB...and I must admit, he wasn't bad.

The cover 2 is going to be played, but as it has been said a million times, they are not going to show what they intend to do during the season. so they had LBs and corners playing on the line and then dropping back. Occasionally they blitzed also. You don't seem to understand how preseason is different than a regular game and I'm tired of arguing with someone who can only see the negative in any situation...

[OpIv37]

Op, it is clear that you will try and find any little piece to substantiate your negative view and ignore anything positive that refutes it. It is clear NO was trying to win - just look at the calls they were making! Don't be so dense. Even the analysts on TV mentioned it. Look how much Palko or whatever his name is, played. They hardly gave any time to the 3rd string QB...and I must admit, he wasn't bad.

The cover 2 is going to be played, but as it has been said a million times, they are not going to show what they intend to do during the season. so they had LBs and corners playing on the line and then dropping back. Occasionally they blitzed also. You don't seem to understand how preseason is different than a regular game and I'm tired of arguing with someone who can only see the negative in any situation...

The announcers on TV? You mean the guys we've been chewing out all week for completely sucking? Suddenly now they have credibility?

I see- so NO has no problem showing what they're going to do during the season, but the Bills are intent on not showing what they're going to do, even if it means getting pushed all over the field and and our young guys not getting game practice in our D. Makes perfect sense.

Yes, pre-season is different but not THAT different. You don't seem to understand that players aren't magically going to go to the right spots because the games count- systems and play calling might get more intricate but that doesn't make players better. It didn't make anyone any better in 05 or 06 and it's not going to make anyone any better in 07.

[mysticsoto]

The announcers on TV? You mean the guys we've been chewing out all week for completely sucking? Suddenly now they have credibility?

I see- so NO has no problem showing what they're going to do during the season, but the Bills are intent on not showing what they're going to do, even if it means getting pushed all over the field and and our young guys not getting game practice in our D. Makes perfect sense.

Yes, pre-season is different but not THAT different. You don't seem to understand that players aren't magically going to go to the right spots because the games count- systems and play calling might get more intricate but that doesn't make players better. It didn't make anyone any better in 05 or 06 and it's not going to make anyone any better in 07.

:violin:

Same tired crap. The difference between NO and us is this was our 1st game, this was their 2nd. Backups are going to get alot more time with us and they did. We're going to be a bit more rusty b'cse of the last time the players played a *real* game and they were. NO played into January last year as well as this was their 2nd game. And despite all that, and them having a high scoring offense, they only managed 3 pts off of us...

Now that's what I call whining!!! Put the tampon on, take a midol and relax...

[justasportsfan]

We've been over this before- players can't improve enough in one year to improve on the 28th run D with no additional talent, especially when there is a net loss of talent.

I keep hearing about how another year in the system is supposed to benefit these guys, but now they're rusty? So which is it- does time working in the system make players improve or make them rusty?



Yes we've been through this before and you are still WRONG.

The run game is one aspect of the D. What about total D and Pass D ? We improved on that with a NET LOSS OF TALENT from the year before with guys like Simpson and Whitner.

You're obviously picking one aspect of the D that makes your opinion right. THe run D. Besides, we improved on the run D ranking from the year before. You're probably talking about total yards.

The total yards that's a measly 40 + yards. The only reason why you were right about that is because Spikes never recovered and McCargo went down to injury. If it wasn't for that, You'd be WRONG again.

You can't accept one truth and deny the other 2 truths that make you WRONG!

Don't forget, we improved on those other aspects with the team playing in the new D for the first time WITH ROOKIES .

[justasportsfan]

For those who are saying the preseason tells a lot especially OP.

with the Saints starters in there, they averaged 4 yards per carry. That's an improvement from 4.7 ypc last year.

Does that stat count or doesn't because it shows improvement which would make ya'll wrong?

[OpIv37]

:violin:

Same tired crap. The difference between NO and us is this was our 1st game, this was their 2nd. Backups are going to get alot more time with us and they did. We're going to be a bit more rusty b'cse of the last time the players played a *real* game and they were. NO played into January last year as well as this was their 2nd game. And despite all that, and them having a high scoring offense, they only managed 3 pts off of us...

Now that's what I call whining!!! Put the tampon on, take a midol and relax...

Right, I get it. Just like every year.

It's too early to worry about players sucking in OTA's, let's wait til camp.
It's too early to worry about players sucking in camp- let's wait til pre season games.
It's too early to worry about players sucking in the first pre season game, let's wait til the 2nd and 3rd games.
It's too early to worry about players sucking in pre season at all, let's wait til the season starts.

Then the season starts and players suck and everyone wonders why.

Our coaches are evaluating players. According to justa and mystic, at what point is it acceptable for fans to evaluate players?

BTW, when I criticized players or the D, "it's pre season, they're playing vanilla, it was the first game, they're rusty", etc.
But when I said Poz looked good, where is the "Well how can you say that when he's going up against a rusty, vanilla offense in pre season against scrubs who won't make the team?"

You don't apply your logic consistently.

[!Papacrunk!]

Justa and Op--would it be too harsh to suggest that you guys put each other on ignore or get a room?

j/k

[OpIv37]

Yes we've been through this before and you are still WRONG.

The run game is one aspect of the D. What about total D and Pass D ? We improved on that with a NET LOSS OF TALENT from the year before with guys like Simpson and Whitner.

You're obviously picking one aspect of the D that makes your opinion right. THe run D. Besides, we improved on the run D ranking from the year before. You're probably talking about total yards.

The total yards that's a measly 40 + yards. The only reason why you were right about that is because Spikes never recovered and McCargo went down to injury. If it wasn't for that, You'd be WRONG again.

You can't accept one truth and deny the other 2 truths that make you WRONG!

Don't forget, we improved on those other aspects with the team playing in the new D for the first time WITH ROOKIES .

You're assuming that the run D would have been better without McCargo- you have absolutely no proof of that. 40 yards worse is still worse- if it was 40 yards better, you'd be saying we IMPROVED and there would be no way you'd say it was only 40 yards.

The net loss of talent in the past D prior to last year was by COACH'S CHOICE- this year, they didn't want Clements to go and it's unclear on Spikes and Fletch- ie, the coaches may NOT have the guys they really wanted.

And you're forgetting the biggest truth: did the improved pass D turn us into winners? NO.

[justasportsfan]

Justa and Op--would it be too harsh to suggest that you guys put each other on ignore or get a room?

j/k
I barely argued with OP. You mean mystic? He's been on OP more than I have lately. :D

[justasportsfan]

You're assuming that the run D would have been better without McCargo- you have absolutely no proof of that. 40 yards worse is still worse- if it was 40 yards better, you'd be saying we IMPROVED and there would be no way you'd say it was only 40 yards. .
Again, ignored the other 2 truths.




The net loss of talent in the past D prior to last year was by COACH'S CHOICE- this year, they didn't want Clements to go and it's unclear on Spikes and Fletch- ie, the coaches may NOT have the guys they really wanted. . So you can make assumptions whether a team can get better based on whether they wanted to stay or go and I can't make assumptions of McCargo who like JP showed improvement ? Double standard again.

You're getting desperate to make another argument.




And you're forgetting the biggest truth: did the improved pass D turn us into winners? NO.This is stupid. WHo's talking about whether the pass D made up winners or not? You talk like improving is a bad thing? Where did I say it made us winners?

I'm just PROVED to you that we CAN improve in 1 year with negative talent. It's a FACT. Argue with FACTS all you want. You just want to point out a fact that only makes your opinion right.

I have 2 truths , you have 1 . I win :D

Besides, you can't tell me that that the run D was solely responsible for our record. JP and the O had something to do with those losses too. Interesting you decided to leave that out just like you decided to leave out the improvement on Pass D and Total D. :rolleyes:

TDUMMY wants to make it look like JP was all at fault and you try to make it look like it was the run D.

[OpIv37]

Again, ignored the other 2 truths.

So you can make assumptions whether a team can get better based on whether they wanted to stay or go ? You're getting desperate to make another argument.

Where did I say it made us winners. I'm just pointing out that we CAN improve in 1 year with negative talent. It proves you WRONG.


Besides, you can't tell me that that the run D was solely responsible for our record. JP and the O had something to do with those losses too. Interesting you decided to leave that out just like you decided to leave out the improvement on Pass D and Total D. :rolleyes:

TDUMMY wants to make it look like JP was all at fault and you try to make it look like it was the run D.

No, I'm making an assumption that teams are better when the coaches get the players they want. How silly and ignorant of me :rolleyes:.

Second, where's your proof that we had negative talent? Turns out Whitner and Simpson were just as good. We already know that no CB's on our roster are as good as Clements. LB's- I suppose it's possible that the guys we have are as good as Fletch and Spikes, but it's highly unlikely, especially this early in their careers.

No, the run D wasn't solely responsible for the losses. JP was at least partially responsible, especially early in the season. I think JP's turnovers were solely responsible for the loss to the Jets because we beat them in pretty much every other measurable category.

But at least JP got better over the course of the season. The run D didn't and we didn't do anything to fix it. In fact, now that Hargrove is out, it can be argued that the run D is WORSE.

[HHURRICANE]

Justa and Op--would it be too harsh to suggest that you guys put each other on ignore or get a room?


I took out the joking part.

My inbox keeps getting filled up with op, justa, op, justa, op, justa, op, justa, op, justa, op, justa, op, justa, op, justa, op, justa, op , justa.

[justasportsfan]

No, I'm making an assumption that teams are better when the coaches get the players they want. How silly and ignorant of me :rolleyes:. .
It's silly of you to act like you know what Jauron wants. They traded Spikes and let Fletcher go didn't they , so maybe they didn't want then after all. I'm assuming and so are you.


Second, where's your proof that we had negative talent? Turns out Whitner and Simpson were just as good. . :rofl:
Turns out? You're telling me you knew that they were an improvement off the bat?

If Ellison turns out to be better than Spikes and DiG (I'll use him for argument sake) turns out to be better than Fletch you're gonna say the same thing next year ? :roflmao:


LB's- I suppose it's possible that the guys we have are as good as Fletch and Spikes, but it's highly unlikely, especially this early in their careers. .Oh so you can make assumptions but I can't :rolleyes:


No, the run D wasn't solely responsible for the losses. JP was at least partially responsible, especially early in the season. I think JP's turnovers were solely responsible for the loss to the Jets because we beat them in pretty much every other measurable category. But at least JP got better over the course of the season. .So why do you keep bringing up only the pass D when talking about our record? :rolleyes:



The run D didn't and we didn't do anything to fix it. In fact, now that Hargrove is out, it can be argued that the run D is WORSE.


McCargo just like Jp got better. He went down to injury.

What has Horgrove done other than pump up the fans?


You have no proof our run D is worse. If you are going by preseason answer this.


For those who are saying the preseason tells a lot especially OP.

with the Saints starters in there, they averaged 4 yards per carry. That's an improvement from 4.7 ypc last year.

Does that stat count or doesn't because it shows improvement which would make ya'll wrong?.

[justasportsfan]

I took out the joking part.

My inbox keeps getting filled up with op, justa, op, justa, op, justa, op, justa, op, justa, op, justa, op, justa, op, justa, op, justa, op , justa.


If you don't like it, leave. If we have to deal with your negativity, you should be able to handle us.

[HHURRICANE]

Just to throw my 2 cents in:

1) The Bills are young and still inexperienced in alot of key positions.

2) We have a ridiculous schedule.

3) We play in a division with 2 playoff teams, one of which is favored, again, to win the Super Bowl.

What are we arguing about? That the Bills are a playoff team?

Look, I'm hoping that they get lucky and gel and we get a 1980 result but it's stupid to ignore the facts. The team has a long way to go.

Be optimistic but don't argue it like it's fact.

[LtBillsFan66]

The arguing will never stop. It's human nature.

[justasportsfan]

Just to throw my 2 cents in:

1) The Bills are young and still inexperienced in alot of key positions.

2) We have a ridiculous schedule.

3) We play in a division with 2 playoff teams, one of which is favored, again, to win the Super Bowl.

What are we arguing about? That the Bills are a playoff team?

Look, I'm hoping that they get lucky and gel and we get a 1980 result but it's stupid to ignore the facts. The team has a long way to go.

Be optimistic but don't argue it like it's fact.


No, I'm just proving OP wrong. He thinks we can't improve in 1 year one aspect of the D. I just proved to him we can by showing him 2 and he's ignoring the FACTS because they PROVE him WRONG!

[justasportsfan]

The arguing will never stop. It's human nature.
I'm done for now. I already PROVED him wrong. :D

I also showed him that we improved our run D after 1 preseason game. Let's see if he'll accept that 4 ypc.

[HHURRICANE]

No, I'm just proving OP wrong. He thinks we can't improve in 1 year one aspect of the D. I just proved to him we can by showing him 2 and he's ignoring the FACTS because they PROVE him WRONG!

I didn't read any of the argumnets but I think our D is worse and will be this year based on the following:

1) McCargo doesn't look healthy or looks like a starter at this point. So any benefit deriived by Kyle Williams improving over his rookie performance will be overshadowed by this.

2) No other additions were made to the DL and we lost a pretty good player in Hargrove for 4 games. That can't help.

3) Injuries happen. Having Ellison back up Spikes or Crowell looks alot better than Wire and Haggan backing up Ellison and Crowell.

4) Poz will be alot better than Fletcher. Unfortunately, not the first 8 games of the season. For every great play he'll make he's going to blow a coverage, etc.

5) The secondary will be better with Simpson and Whitner both returning as 2nd year players. However, Nate's loss means that whoever replaces him is going to need support on the field. Nate could be left alone while his replacement can't be. Again this is a draw at least through the first 8 games.

6) Depth!!!!!!! This to me is the absolute biggest issue. injuries will happen and your assuming every player will make it through the end of the season. Our depthe chart makes me want to puke. This to me is the number one reason that the D takes a step bak this year.

[OpIv37]

I'm done for now. I already PROVED him wrong. :D

I also showed him that we improved our run D after 1 preseason game. Let's see if he'll accept that 4 ypc.

too bad your whole concept is flawed. I said we can't improve enough for it to make a difference.

So what if we go from 28th against the run to 22nd or 23rd? We're still going to have a losing record and we're still not going to the playoffs.

[LtBillsFan66]

You can't prove or disprove anything that hasn't happened yet.

[OpIv37]

You can't prove or disprove anything that hasn't happened yet.

no, but the facts that have happened so far make some outcomes a lot more likely than others and some predictions a lot more valid than others.

[LtBillsFan66]

no, but the facts that have happened so far make some outcomes a lot more likely than others and some predictions a lot more valid than others.
But there no use blowing a gasket over the unknown.

[HHURRICANE]

But there no use blowing a gasket over the unknown.

I think Op's point is that there is enough things to base a reasonable conclusion on vs. an unreasonable one.

[OpIv37]

But there no use blowing a gasket over the unknown.

I have good reasons for my opinions and if people challenge them I will defend them. If that constitutes "blowing a gasket" in your eyes, so be it.

[LtBillsFan66]

Some people are wait and see. Some expect a trend to continue. There is no convincing either side. I like the arguing, don't get me wrong, but no one will ever "win" an argument here.

[justasportsfan]

too bad your whole concept is flawed. I said we can't improve enough for it to make a difference..I guess the FACTS are flawed. Argue with facts all you want.


So what if we go from 28th against the run to 22nd or 23rd? We're still going to have a losing record and we're still not going to the playoffs.
who's talking about improving from 28th to 22nd? I'm just showing you you're wrong.

Again Still, ignoring the improvement from 4.7 to 4 ypc. Thought so.

You ***** and whine about stuff but when presented FACTS you either tell us ""it's flawed" of you shut up about it.

[justasportsfan]

I think Op's point is that there is enough things to base a reasonable conclusion on vs. an unreasonable one.
read the argument. You will realize there are 2 FACTS that proved him wrong.

[justasportsfan]

I have good reasons for my opinions and if people challenge them I will defend them. If that constitutes "blowing a gasket" in your eyes, so be it.
reasons aren't FACTS. I have 2 that you ignore and spin.

[justasportsfan]

But there no use blowing a gasket over the unknown.

he knows the future , that's the problem.

[OpIv37]

I guess the FACTS are flawed. Argue with facts all you want.

who's talking about improving from 28th to 22nd? I'm just showing you you're wrong.

Again Still, ignoring the improvement from 4.7 to 4 ypc. Thought so.

You ***** and whine about stuff but when presented FACTS you either tell us ""it's flawed" of you shut up about it.

I thought pre-season games don't matter, but now that you found a good stat, they do matter? Make up your mind. And you accuse ME of spin.

Yes, they improved. But allowing 4 yards a carry still isn't good enough. 4x3 is 12, a first down is 10 yards, this means on average the other team is still getting a first down in 3 plays.

[LtBillsFan66]

I think we can all agree that the arguing will stop once the Bills win the super bowl.

[OpIv37]

reasons aren't FACTS. I have 2 that you ignore and spin.

because not all reasons are equal in signficance.

[OpIv37]

I think we can all agree that the arguing will stop IF the Bills EVER win the super bowl.

I fixed it for you.

[justasportsfan]

1) McCargo doesn't look healthy or looks like a starter at this point. So any benefit deriived by Kyle Williams improving over his rookie performance will be overshadowed by this.. Forget the injury part but he doesn't look like a starter based on what?




3) Injuries happen. .. to every team, so what's your point?



4) Poz will be alot better than Fletcher. Unfortunately, not the first 8 games of the season. For every great play he'll make he's going to blow a coverage, etc... you're making assumptions here. You have no proof. So all in all we're all making assumptions. So who's assumptions are right? we shall see.




5) The secondary will be better with Simpson and Whitner both returning as 2nd year players. ...according to OP, one year experience is not enough . Go argue with him.




6) Depth!!!!!!! This to me is the absolute biggest issue. injuries will happen and your assuming every player will make it through the end of the season. Our depthe chart makes me want to puke. This to me is the number one reason that the D takes a step bak this year.
see 2nd response.

[justasportsfan]

because not all reasons are equal in signficance.


well said especially when you are trying to spin facts because they prove you WRONG!

[mysticsoto]

I barely argued with OP. You mean mystic? He's been on OP more than I have lately. :D

Nope. Talking to Op in this forum is a waste of time and I'm done. He can continue his ***** fests all he wants. It's almost like he's looking for attention - the new FBH. I'm done. I'll gladly talk to him over on the Spin Zone or Twilight, but here...it's just a waste of my time.

[justasportsfan]

I thought pre-season games don't matter, but now that you found a good stat, they do matter? Make up your mind. And you accuse ME of spin.

Yes, they improved. But allowing 4 yards a carry still isn't good enough. 4x3 is 12, a first down is 10 yards, this means on average the other team is still getting a first down in 3 plays.
thThe 1st preseason does not matter . That's what I've been telling you!!!!!!!!!!!


I only brought it up because you keep *****ing about the first preseason game . So I brought i up and now you wont accept that FACT because it proves you WRONG AGAIN?

Nice attempt try trying to turn things around.

[OpIv37]

Nope. Talking to Op in this forum is a waste of time and I'm done. He can continue his ***** fests all he wants. It's almost like he's looking for attention - the new FBH. I'm done. I'll gladly talk to him over on the Spin Zone or Twilight, but here...it's just a waste of my time.

yeah, I really care that much about attention from you guys.... give me a break.

All I'm trying to do is show the reality of how bad this team is because I'm sick of losing and I'm just as sick of the excuses, justifications and "what if" scenarios people come up with to make it seem better than it is.

[justasportsfan]

Nope. Talking to Op in this forum is a waste of time and I'm done. He can continue his ***** fests all he wants. It's almost like he's looking for attention - the new FBH. I'm done. I'll gladly talk to him over on the Spin Zone or Twilight, but here...it's just a waste of my time.


Acutally I gave up on him when he pretended to know better than the coaches and pretended to know who's blowing smoke up who's butt.

NOw he back pedaled and said looks like JP really has a connection w/ Reed. :rolleyes:

I just like proving him WRONG!

[OpIv37]

thThe 1st preseason does not matter . That's what I've been telling you!!!!!!!!!!!


I only brought it up because you keep *****ing about the first preseason game . So I brought i up and now you wont accept that FACT because it proves you WRONG AGAIN?

Nice attempt try trying to turn things around.

I said it improved- I DID accept the stat. But the stat isn't good enough, so what's your point?

And it DOES matter- according to you, OTA's, camp and pre-season don't matter. So how and when are we permitted to judge players? Once the season starts, it's too late.

[justasportsfan]

All I'm trying to do is show the reality of how bad this team is because .


Reality? Where's your facts? None.

Your reality is what you believe is gonna happen. OPINION.

[justasportsfan]

I said it improved- I DID accept the stat. But the stat isn't good enough, so what's your point? . Nice of you to accept that you're wrong. Again, stop blaming it solely on the D.

You should start *****ing about the O for a change Wait , I take that back :phew:



And it DOES matter- according to you, OTA's, camp and pre-season don't matter. So how and when are we permitted to judge players? Once the season starts, it's too late.

So if it matters then you accept our run D is better (4YPC).
So why are you *****ing about progess on the run D while there's no progress in the run O based on a preseason game you say matters?

The regular season games count. Not preseason.

[Typ0]

Nice of you to accept that you're wrong. Again, stop blaming it solely on the D.

You should start *****ing about the O for a change Wait , I take that back :phew:



So if it matters then you accept our run D is better (4YPC).
So why are you *****ing about progess on the run D while there's no progress in the run O based on a preseason game you say matters?

The regular season games count. Not preseason.

I agree with this. Right now, we only have some data to indicate that the team isn't going anywhere this year. That means we have opinions. Hence, once the season starts we can really start the *****ing about how the team isn't going anywhere because of the obvious and glaring holes. Right now, I only have those opinions.

[OpIv37]

Nice of you to accept that you're wrong. Again, stop blaming it solely on the D.

You should start *****ing about the O for a change Wait , I take that back :phew:



So if it matters then you accept our run D is better (4YPC).
So why are you *****ing about progess on the run D while there's no progress in the run O based on a preseason game you say matters?

The regular season games count. Not preseason.

the "progress" on the run D was only .7 YPC, just like the run D was only 40 yards worse in 06 than 05 :snicker:

I said the offense wasn't great, but at least it wasn't worse. The pass D definitely looked worse and the run D looked horrible even if stats suggest they were mildly better.

[justasportsfan]

the "progress" on the run D was only .7 YPC, just like the run D was only 40 yards worse in 06 than 05 :snicker:


copout. You're *****ing about improvement? Yet you wonder why we say you're *****ing for the sake of *****ing.



I said the offense wasn't great, but at least it wasn't worse. it was worse. A-Train was 2.3 ypc. ( Willis was 3.7) Lynch was 1.5 ( A-train was 3.6)




The pass D definitely looked worse and the run D looked horrible even if stats suggest they were mildly better.

so the runD was worse based on what you THINK you saw instead of the facts.?

Typical OP, when the facts prove you wrong, the facts are wrong and you're right.

Not only do you know more than the coaches and players , now you know more than the facts. okay :rolleyes:

[Typ0]

I don't know if you guys are making my thread better or destroying it...LOL. Maybe you should get a room and have a webcam handy!

[!Papacrunk!]

I don't know if you guys are making my thread better or destroying it...LOL. Maybe you should get a room and have a webcam handy!

um, should I even ask why a webcam is desired?

[Typ0]

um, should I even ask why a webcam is desired?


if you have to ask...

[Typ0]

I think it would be a nice value added service for the BillsZone. Op VS Justa: Locked up in a hotel room and no where to go.

[LtBillsFan66]

justa and op have had some classic battles.

[mysticsoto]

justa and op have had some classic battles.

Yep and Justa always wins:


so the runD was worse based on what you THINK you saw instead of the facts.?

Typical OP, when the facts prove you wrong, the facts are wrong and you're right.

[justasportsfan]

Yep and Justa always wins:
thanks but no, the facts win.

[OpIv37]

copout. You're *****ing about improvement? Yet you wonder why we say you're *****ing for the sake of *****ing.

it was worse. A-Train was 2.3 ypc. ( Willis was 3.7) Lynch was 1.5 ( A-train was 3.6)





so the runD was worse based on what you THINK you saw instead of the facts.?

Typical OP, when the facts prove you wrong, the facts are wrong and you're right.

Not only do you know more than the coaches and players , now you know more than the facts. okay :rolleyes:

Say what you want- I know what I saw. I saw DT's going backwards on every play, I saw LB's out of position on nearly every pass play, I saw a $25 million DE who got the same amount of pressure on the QB as Eric Powell, I saw the "savior" at CB looking like he never played football before.

Again, if you're satisfied with that performance, you deserve all the losses we're going to have.

The team looked like ****- plain and simple. You can come with whatever stats or excuses about preseason you want, but at the end of the day, what was on the field still isn't good enough to be a winner this year. Deal with it.

[justasportsfan]

Say what you want- I know what I saw. I saw DT's going backwards on every play, I saw LB's out of position on nearly every pass play, I saw a $25 million DE who got the same amount of pressure on the QB as Eric Powell, I saw the "savior" at CB looking like he never played football before. .
you saw something different from what Church and I saw. How do we settle this? Stats.




Again, if you're satisfied with that performance, you deserve all the losses we're going to have.

The team looked like ****- plain and simple. You can come with whatever stats or excuses about preseason you want, but at the end of the day, what was on the field still isn't good enough to be a winner this year. Deal with it.


How many times am I telling you I never said I was satisfied.

You on the other pick the stats that feed into your whines. Even then the facts say you are wrong. :D

[OpIv37]

you saw something different from what Church and I saw. How do we settle this? Stats.





How many times am I telling you I never said I was satisfied.

You on the other pick the stats that feed into your whines. Even then the facts say you are wrong. :D

if you weren't satisfied by what you saw, then why do you have such a problem with me complaining about it? It's counterintuitive.

You can come up with whatever stats you want- I saw a team that's NOT GOOD ENOUGH and it WILL show on the field when the real games start. Deal with it.

[justasportsfan]

if you weren't satisfied by what you saw, then why do you have such a problem with me complaining about it? It's counterintuitive..
maybe I just like proving you wrong :D.


You can come up with whatever stats you want- I saw a team that's NOT GOOD ENOUGH and it WILL show on the field when the real games start. Deal with it.

And the winning lotto nos. are????


Opinion, not fact. :D

Actually in time either one of us is gonna have to deal with it via our bet.

[Typ0]

you saw something different from what Church and I saw. How do we settle this? Stats.





How many times am I telling you I never said I was satisfied.

You on the other pick the stats that feed into your whines. Even then the facts say you are wrong. :D

why don't we go by win loss percentage at the end of the season? what a novel idea!

[justasportsfan]

why don't we go by win loss percentage at the end of the season? what a novel idea!

I have a cash bet on that with wys already.

[Typ0]

I have a cash bet on that with wys already.

I hope you didn't bet we will have a winning record...LMAO.

[justasportsfan]

I hope you didn't bet we will have a winning record...LMAO.

no but I wouldn't see that as being impossible.

DICK : WHY NOT US???

[OpIv37]

no but I wouldn't see that as being impossible.

DICK : WHY NOT US???

horrible DL,
unproven, inexperienced LB's
weak CB's
No TE's
No WR's behind Evans
QB who could go either boom or bust (happy now?)
coaching staff who can't coach during games
no depth except for the RB position.

That's why not.

[justasportsfan]

horrible DL,
unproven, inexperienced LB's
weak CB's
No TE's
No WR's behind Evans
QB who could go either boom or bust (happy now?)
coaching staff who can't coach during games


That's why not.

All opinion. Not fact.

He obviously didn't have you in mind when he said that.



no depth except for the RB position. .

based on 1st preseason , we have no rb. See what I mean by you seeing things? Whether it's STATS or what we saw on TV, we had NOTHING in the running game and then you come out and say we have depth? You see what you want to see and accept certrain facts. :shakeno:

:snicker:

[OpIv37]

huh? I didn't say we had no RB- I said that was the only position where we had depth.

BTW, our DL being horrible is a fact- it was 28th against the run last year and it's the SAME ****ING GUYS.

The fact that our linebackers are unproven and inexperience is a FACT- they have very few starts and none of them have ever had a monster year. It doesn't necessarily mean they suck, but what I said is a fact.

Since we don't know how JP will play, it's a FACT that he could go boom or bust.

The coaching staff proved last year through their play calling, use of time outs and lack of adjustments that they can't coach during games. that's a fact whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

The rest- well, I suppose you can categorize them as opinions but if you look at the stats, it will suggest that I'm right and you're wrong. Example: K Thomas' 7 seasons with 0 interceptions doesn't exactly scream "strong CB situation".

[justasportsfan]

huh? I didn't say we had no RB- I said that was the only position where we had depth.". OMG- SInce you take stock into the 1st preseason, based on the 1st preseason , WE HAVE NO RB. How is it we have depth
Originally Posted by OpIv37
no depth except for the RB position. .". .You're contradicting yourself.



BTW, our DL being horrible is a fact- it was 28th against the run last year and it's the SAME ****ING GUYS.

The fact that our linebackers are unproven and inexperience is a FACT- they have very few starts and none of them have ever had a monster year. It doesn't necessarily mean they suck, but what I said is a fact.

Since we don't know how JP will play, it's a FACT that he could go boom or bust.

The coaching staff proved last year through their play calling, use of time outs and lack of adjustments that they can't coach during games. that's a fact whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

The rest- well, I suppose you can categorize them as opinions but if you look at the stats, it will suggest that I'm right and you're wrong. Example: K Thomas' 7 seasons with 0 interceptions doesn't exactly scream "strong CB situation".



I would rather wait and see than trust you. You've proven that you see what you only want to see anfd ignore facts that prove you wrong.

[OpIv37]

"no depth except for the RB position", ie, the EXCEPTION to having no depth is RB- exception meaning the rule doesn't apply and we do have depth at RB.

I thought you knew English?

[justasportsfan]

"no depth except for the RB position", ie, the EXCEPTION to having no depth is RB- exception meaning the rule doesn't apply and we do have depth at RB.

I thought you knew English? you can't have depth when your starters suck. That's what 1st preseason showed, our starters suck.


Comprende?

[raphael120]

Op, I dont see why you waste your time arguing with this guy, it's obvious he's not going to realize this til we're sitting 0-5 at the start of the season.

[justasportsfan]

Op, I dont see why you waste your time arguing with this guy, it's obvious he's not going to realize this til we're sitting 0-5 at the start of the season.
I guess your *****ing all the time is making use of better time? :hand:

[Typ0]

no but I wouldn't see that as being impossible.

DICK : WHY NOT US???

it's true that just about every year a team comes out of the woodwork to rise up and become a playoff team. It's also true that team has the benefit of a weak schedule. We don't have that benefit. Based on our schedule and the talent we are going to have on the field I would guess the probability we have a winning season is 1:10 against our being the first team in history to lose every single game.

[Typ0]

I just looked at the over/under on wins...it's at 6. (www.wsex.com). the only team lower is oakland at 5. That's just where we are at now. As far as I'm concerned I'm just as much of a fan as anyone and I still recognize we are in the cellar. Maybe we are building something and headed in the right direction that remains to be seen. It does not, however, propel us into the top third of the league this season.

[justasportsfan]

I just looked at the over/under on wins...it's at 6. (www.wsex.com). the only team lower is oakland at 5. That's just where we are at now. As far as I'm concerned I'm just as much of a fan as anyone and I still recognize we are in the cellar. Maybe we are building something and headed in the right direction that remains to be seen. It does not, however, propel us into the top third of the league this season.
that's what I bet wys.

[Typ0]

that's what I bet wys.

that's what's so funny about you and Op...you are both saying the team sucks and you are arguing about how sucky they are...LMAO. You are probably spending pages bantering about one game :D.

[Typ0]

I'll settle it on that game for you guys (just my opinion ;)) The Jets will be us at least once maybe twice.

[justasportsfan]

that's what's so funny about you and Op...you are both saying the team sucks and you are arguing about how sucky they are...LMAO. You are probably spending pages bantering about one game :D.

you got it the other way around. I bet we'd win 7 games or more. He bet 5 games or less. 6 push,

[FlyingDutchman]

I just hope the Bills tear **** up so OP will finally shut the **** up. Although im sure the know it all wanna be GM would find something to say he was right about and how we still suck and that his opinion is fact.

[justasportsfan]

I just hope the Bills tear **** up so OP will finally shut the **** up. Do not underestimate the power of the dark side...


I wonder what he'll say if the 1st team run D shuts out the falcons. Will he say we've improved or will he say it's only preseason.

[Typ0]

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side...


I wonder what he'll say if the 1st team run D shuts out the falcons. Will he say we've improved or will he say it's only preseason.

Maybe he'll say the falcons are a mess!

[FlyingDutchman]

Im sure he'll just say the Falcons suck without Vick and find something else to ***** about. I bet he would rather the Bills suck just so he could say "I told you so" instead of the Bills doing good and being wrong. Ive never seen someone constantly bash their own team on a daily basis like him. Criticism is one thing, but holy crap it never ends...

[OpIv37]

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side...


I wonder what he'll say if the 1st team run D shuts out the falcons. Will he say we've improved or will he say it's only preseason.

Well you blamed Michael Vick for Peerless Price's problems so I'll just blame a lack of Michael Vick for the Falcon's failures. After all, we can't actually blame the players, at all, ever.

[OpIv37]

Im sure he'll just say the Falcons suck without Vick and find something else to ***** about. I bet he would rather the Bills suck just so he could say "I told you so" instead of the Bills doing good and being wrong. Ive never seen someone constantly bash their own team on a daily basis like him. Criticism is one thing, but holy crap it never ends...

just **** off already.

That's right, I care so much about being right that I want the Bills to lose.

Think for a ****ing second- if I didn't care about the Bills and WANTED them to lose, why would I be so pissed off about them losing all the time and constantly complaining about how bad they are? It's completely illogical.

[justasportsfan]

Well you blamed Michael Vick for Peerless Price's problems so I'll just blame a lack of Michael Vick for the Falcon's failures. After all, we can't actually blame the players, at all, ever.


Already preparing your copout , I see. :up:

[OpIv37]

Already preparing your copout , I see. :up:

Yup.

I'm not gonna need it though- we aren't gonna look any better this week.

Last week, the excuses were "we were playing a team that was trying to win" and "the Saints were on their 2nd win".

Better start working on your excuses for when our D gets crushed by an offense with no receivers (unless you count Crumpler) and Joey ****ing Harrington at QB.

[FlyingDutchman]

just **** off already.

That's right, I care so much about being right that I want the Bills to lose.

Think for a ****ing second- if I didn't care about the Bills and WANTED them to lose, why would I be so pissed off about them losing all the time and constantly complaining about how bad they are? It's completely illogical.

It was more of a shot at your personality than if youre a true fan or not. You love to have the last word and seem to care more about if youre opinion is deemed as right versus something positive coming from the Bills. If something good were to happen, youd find a negative just so you could find something to ***** about. Your hole is dug so deep on this message board, that saying something positive will never come from you or will be accompanied by something negative...

p.s.- is the word illogical the word of the month or something for you? You seem to use that when describing anyones opinion thats not yours.

[FlyingDutchman]

LMAO. I just read your statement when you negged me OP. "the criticism will stop when this team wins"...isnt that the gist of a fair weather fan? Hate the team when they lose, love them when they win? Criticism is one thing and is fine. Hell I dont think the team is going to be very good. However bc im a fan of the team i still like to look at the positives and enjoy those. What fun is being a fan when your constantly *****ing? How fun is life when youre like that? Different strokes for different folks, but holy crap im glad im not you! what a miserable way to follow football and live your life.

[justasportsfan]

Yup.

I'm not gonna need it though- we aren't gonna look any better this week.

Last week, the excuses were "we were playing a team that was trying to win" and "the Saints were on their 2nd win".

Better start working on your excuses for when our D gets crushed by an offense with no receivers (unless you count Crumpler) and Joey ****ing Harrington at QB.

You already have your excuses in case we do better. :snicker:

[FlyingDutchman]

Better start working on your excuses for when our D gets crushed by an offense with no receivers (unless you count Crumpler) and Joey ****ing Harrington at QB.

first of all, ill make sure to remember this quote. second of all, ITS PRESEASON. Did you see what the pats did? The Colts are 1-8 in the last couple of years of preseason. Dude, how long are you gonna keep this pissing fest going? dont you get tired of it? The bills probably wont be in the playoffs this year, and maybe not next. While I get your point about rebuilding and how you think we're always doing it, its the fact of the matter. Accept it, get over it, and get excited about the positives that can come from this year, and look forward to the future. I know we're not going to be that good, but being a miserable ***** isnt gonna change that. Calling accepting mediocracy if you will, i call it enjoying a sport. This isnt freaking life or death situations. The bills arent going to win the super bowl this year, but the sun will still rise. Some people take the sport for what it is, something meant to be fun to follow. You seem hell beant on taking them to the miserable life with you. LET THEM FREAKING BE.

[justasportsfan]

first of all, ill make sure to remember this quote. second of all, ITS PRESEASON. Did you see what the pats did? The Colts are 1-8 in the last couple of years of preseason. Dude, how long are you gonna keep this pissing fest going? dont you get tired of it? The bills probably wont be in the playoffs this year, and maybe not next. While I get your point about rebuilding and how you think we're always doing it, its the fact of the matter. Accept it, get over it, and get excited about the positives that can come from this year, and look forward to the future. I know we're not going to be that good, but being a miserable ***** isnt gonna change that. Calling accepting mediocracy if you will, i call it enjoying a sport. This isnt freaking life or death situations. The bills arent going to win the super bowl this year, but the sun will still rise. Some people take the sport for what it is, something meant to be fun to follow. You seem hell beant on taking them to the miserable life with you. LET THEM FREAKING BE.

Been there, done that... sooo....what he said :snicker:

[OpIv37]

It was more of a shot at your personality than if youre a true fan or not. You love to have the last word and seem to care more about if youre opinion is deemed as right versus something positive coming from the Bills. If something good were to happen, youd find a negative just so you could find something to ***** about. Your hole is dug so deep on this message board, that saying something positive will never come from you or will be accompanied by something negative...

p.s.- is the word illogical the word of the month or something for you? You seem to use that when describing anyones opinion thats not yours.

see, here's what makes that illogical (sorry, couldn't help it):

The Bills haven't won anything significant since this message board has been in existence. So no one here has any idea how I would react if the Bills actually did win.

Yes, I do have a problem with letting arguments go- I'll freely admit that. But if the Bills were winning, I'd have nothing to complain about and I'd just come off like a whiny ass (and some people already think I come off like a whiny ass).

[OpIv37]

LMAO. I just read your statement when you negged me OP. "the criticism will stop when this team wins"...isnt that the gist of a fair weather fan? Hate the team when they lose, love them when they win? Criticism is one thing and is fine. Hell I dont think the team is going to be very good. However bc im a fan of the team i still like to look at the positives and enjoy those. What fun is being a fan when your constantly *****ing? How fun is life when youre like that? Different strokes for different folks, but holy crap im glad im not you! what a miserable way to follow football and live your life.

Criticize the team when they deserve to be criticized and compliment when they deserve to be complimented- what's wrong with that?

A fair weather fan is someone who isn't around in the bad times. Well, we've had nothing but bad times for 7 years (arguably 10) and I'm still here.

The way I see it, it's not fun when we're losing, regardless of the positives. It's just a different outlook.

[FlyingDutchman]

Would you say Randy Quade in the movie Major League was a fan? just for giggles sake? He was "at the games" but constantly *****ing and being annoying to everyone around him to the point where they beat him with their hats and ran him out of the stands. Sure he was there, but many wouldnt have considered him a fan. Every word that came out of his mouth was ripping the team apart. But the moment, they started winning he was right back down in the stands cheering his ass off. Ya see, the real fans were still there and trying to remain positive and cheer on the team even when they knew they sucked. Now i know youre gonna have some rebuttal but im not gonna bother even reading it. All we're gonna do is argue in circles like we always do and im sick of annoying people on here and making this an unpleasant place to enjoy the Buffalo Bills.

[OpIv37]

Would you say Randy Quade in the movie Major League was a fan? just for giggles sake? He was "at the games" but constantly *****ing and being annoying to everyone around him to the point where they beat him with their hats and ran him out of the stands. Sure he was there, but many wouldnt have considered him a fan. Every word that came out of his mouth was ripping the team apart. But the moment, they started winning he was right back down in the stands cheering his ass off. Ya see, the real fans were still there and trying to remain positive and cheer on the team even when they knew they sucked. Now i know youre gonna have some rebuttal but im not gonna bother even reading it. All we're gonna do is argue in circles like we always do and im sick of annoying people on here and making this an unpleasant place to enjoy the Buffalo Bills.

well, unlike Randy Quaid, come game day, I'm in the stands cheering my ass off (well, more often on my couch yelling at the TV since the stands are 400 miles away). But when there are no games, I'm gonna call it as I see it, and right now, what I see is a big cluster****.

[justasportsfan]

Criticize the team when they deserve to be criticized and compliment when they deserve to be complimented- what's wrong with that?

.

Draftboy...take note for your sig...


I completely 150 % agree with Op on this.

Problem is, you should criticize them based on the results ON THE FIELD . Last year they did more than most expected including you but you took it back because you disagreed offseason moves this year? WTF?

You tend to criticize them for offseason moves that have yet to bare any results thus "fairchild is wrong, trust me" simply means " I know better "

If you know better than the coaches, then why even bother arguing with us fans?

You also swing by saying "I spoke too soon". Not only do you speak too soon , you also "***** too soon"


You also tend to say wait and see depending on your discussion .


Stop playing psychic like you know for sure and stop blasting us who would rather see results on the field that are FACTS. Your opinions of what will happen are opinions not facts.

You've been WRONG several times in the past so excuse those of us who'd rather give MArv's moves the benefit of the doubt.

That's all :D

[Mad Bomber]

Title of thread:
"I think the arguing should stop"

This thread is just one HUGE ARGUMENT.

Just like almost every other thread on this board.

I haven't chimed in on many of these *****fests, but it's starting to get REAL OLD, reading the same things OVER and OVER.

The ****ing season is still a month off...can we give it a rest?

Damn...I'm thinking about leaving this place if it keeps up like this....

[OpIv37]

Draftboy...take note for your sig...


I completely 150 % agree with Op on this.

Problem is, you should criticize them based on the results ON THE FIELD . Last year they did more than most expected including you but you took it back because you disagreed offseason moves this year? WTF?

You tend to criticize them for offseason moves that have yet to bare any results thus "fairchild is wrong, trust me" simply means " I know better "

If you know better than the coaches, then why even bother arguing with us fans?

You also swing by saying "I spoke too soon". Not only do you speak too soon , you also "***** too soon"


You also tend to say wait and see depending on your discussion .


Stop playing psychic like you know for sure and stop blasting us who would rather see results on the field that are FACTS. Your opinions of what will happen are opinions not facts.

You've been WRONG several times in the past so excuse those of us who'd rather give MArv's moves the benefit of the doubt.

That's all :D
we have no choice but to wait and see, because as BF1 pointed out about 37 pages ago, you can't prove something that hasn't happened yet.

If a move looks bad I'm going to criticize it, if a move looks good I'm going to compliment it, at times I will be right, at times I will be wrong, but I will always have good reasons for my opinion.

If we didn't do that, might as well shut this forum down during the off-season except for draft day cuz what the hell else are we going to talk about? Hell, shut it down on draft day because that's all speculation too.

[FlyingDutchman]

you can't prove something that hasn't happened yet.


are you freaking kidding me??? coming from all people?? YOU ARE THE KING OF WRITING CRAP OFF BEFORE IT HAPPENS!! Dude you constantly contradict yourself and talk in circles. Ive tried giving you chance after chance, but youre just an attention whore clown who pushes his opinion on everyone. Im done with you. Im with Madbomber, this place has started to become miserable for me as well. Mainly bc of you and im sure people are sick of me *****ing about you. Is it any wonder why arguements always somehow involve you? There are plenty of people who are criticle of the team (including dolphin fans) however page after page of arguements never occur. This says something about your personality and the way you are. But you just dont see it. This has to come to an end and you do nothing for my enjoyment of this board. The time just might have come to add to ignore. Good luck to you.

[justasportsfan]

Mainly bc of you and im sure people are sick of me *****ing about you. .


Never heard anyone say anything my *****ing about OP. But I shall stop now while I'm ahead.


The facts are around the corner. (not sure it'll help when it comes to OP) .I'm sure Op knows I will make sure to point out his flaws when the time comes.

[Typ0]

Title of thread:
"I think the arguing should stop"

This thread is just one HUGE ARGUMENT.



pretty neat huh! I figured I'd flame up my own thread. I could see it coming why let someone else ruin the fun when I can do it myself!

[SABURZFAN]

:movie: