Anyone Listening to WGR?

[raphael120]

Specifically Trent Edwards and Wright.

They're saying that when you're a team as bad as the Bills who have glaring holes, you don't have the luxury of picking picks like that, and they even compared that to what Donahoe did, and if you think about it, it kind of rings true. We didn't need Roscoe Parrish, and we picked him up anyways. And as of right now, he hasn't really done much.

They also bring up the fact that we shouldnt have wasted a 3rd and 4th round pick on these guys seeing as we already have plenty of RB depth and also we have JP Losman and pretty hefty money thrown at Nall which has gone to waste. Our defense was horrible and we needed people on D-line and corner. You may say, "well man, they aren't going to be instant starters because it takes awhile for a dlineman or a corner to get acclimated to the NFL". Well I'd have to retort, hey moron, we have Ko Simpson who was a 4th rounder, we have Kyle Williams who was a 5th rounder, and we have Keith Ellison who was a 6th rounder and they ALL started in their rookie season and are starting this season.

Unfortunately their 3rd rounder Ashton Youboty hasn't panned out yet, nor has McCargo. Its unfortunate that we didnt do well early on in the draft and had to start players who were drafted later on. This year we got 2 immediate starters, and the other guys we drafted are all depth, and you REALLY have to question the ineptitude of that. We brought in two guys when we had 4 holes! 5 if you count WR!

I think it's a good debatable topic.

[Wally The Barber]

All I can say to that is...
It takes 4 years to rate a draft!
Some players take longer!

McCargo and Youboty had injuries and they are basically rookies!

Only a fool passes on Trent Edwards at #3!

[X-Era]

OK, debate on/

1) I trust WGR to provide me with the most ignorrant, and cynical version of the facts

2) When 50% of the 1st round picks in the league turn out to be busts, I fail to see how 3rd or 4th rounders spent on decent backups is a waste

3) Should we have drafted McGahee and traded Travis? No, when hindsight is 20/20 probably not. Lets not forget that Travis slept with a minor and had a problem with fumbling.

WGR continues to prove that at best the media are morons and at worst they are as smart as your average scoop of mud

My opinion is that the media and some fans want:

The best free agents signed at rock bottom prices
Trades for the best players without giving up draft picks or money
Picking players that should have gone a solid round or more earlier
An all world O and D line
The rest of the roster stocked with late rounders or UFA's that are being payed as such but are playing like pro-bowlers
Jim Kelly from day one
Thurman Thomas from day one
The best D in the league
A perrenial league leader in sacks
A hall of fame HC, and GM

So, considering most of the above are not hapenning any time soon for various reasons, I choose not to listen to WGR or some fans for that matter.

Its kind of an agreement with myself not to be sadomasochistic.

[The last buffalo fan]

Opi, is that you??

Seriously they are right, but I'm just a fan, and I can't do anything in that regard, just to root or stop rooting for them, and I have decided to support and root for them. For us it could a game or more than that, but for them it is only business. :gobills:

[Wally The Barber]

I believe I saw a poll here before the draft and 80% of you guys said YOU ALWAYS TAKE THE BEST AVAILABLE PLAYER!
20% of you guys are killing me!

[raphael120]

OK, debate on/

1) I trust WGR to provide me with the most ignorrant, and cynical version of the facts

2) When 50% of the 1st round picks in the league turn out to be busts, I fail to see how 3rd or 4th rounders spent on decent backups is a waste

3) Should we have drafted McGahee and traded Travis? Now, when hindsight is 20/20 probably not. Lets not forget that Travis slept with a minor and had a problem with fumbling.

WGR continues to prove that at best the media are morons and at worst they are as smart as your average scoop of mud

My opinion is that the media and some fans want:

The best free agents signed at rock bottom prices
Trades for the best players without giving up draft picks or money
Picking players that should have gone a solid round or more earlier
An all world O and D line
The rest of the roster stocked with late rounders or UFA's that are being payed as such but are playing like pro-bowlers
Jim Kelly from day one
Thurman Thomas from day one
The best D in the league
A perrenial league leader in sacks
A hall of fame HC, and GM

So, considering most of the above are not hapenning any time soon for various reasons, I choose not to listen to WGR or some fans for that matter.

Its kind of an agreement with myself not to be sadomasochistic.

Ok can we get a response from someone who isn't so fanatical?

[Philagape]

A CB may not have started, but he would certainly have contributed more than Edwards, who hopefully won't see the field at all.

The thing about Edwards is, it's a worthwhile pick ONLY if several other things happen. If JP has a long-term injury, that's a bad thing in itself and it would just be a wash. If JP doesn't get hurt then Trent stays on the bench, and the pick is good only if another team gives us a higher pick for him, which is far from a given. And that's only if he turns out to be any good. Too many variables.

[X-Era]

Ok can we get a response from someone who isn't so fanatical?

Dont mistake my response for a response meant to point fingers at fans here. I would rather discuss quantum mechanics with the dumbest poster here then talk the fastest way to get to work (WGR studio) on the opening day of training camp with those clowns.

90% of the posters have more valuable opinions than ANY of those hacks.

[raphael120]

Opi, is that you??

Seriously they are right, but I'm just a fan, and I can't do anything in that regard, just to root or stop rooting for them, and I have decided to support and root for them. For us it could a game or more than that, but for them it is only business. :gobills:

Well for fans its an investment, emotionally and monetarily. Will I root for them? Sure. Will I support them? heck yeah! Will I be as enthusiastic if we end up 7-9 again? Nope. Will I support the FO? Why should I? What have they shown that they're turning the franchise around? (This is if theyre 7-9 or less, or even 8-8)

[justasportsfan]

I would not disagree that they were luxury picks that came at a very cheap price based on the bills value chart and scouts grades. Too early to tell though if they are mistakes.

The bills must think highly of the talent they already have to miss out on drafting their needs.

[raphael120]

Dont mistake my response for a response meant to point fingers at fans here. I would rather discuss quantum mechanics with the dumbest poster here then talk the fastest way to get to work (WGR studio) on the opening day of training camp with those clowns.

90% of the posters have more valuable opinions than ANY of those hacks.

I dunno, I'm from out of state and to get Bills info, I listen to WGR. I don't see why people think they're so bad. I'll take WGR over ESPN radio BS anyday. Mike and Mike? Are you kidding me?

[raphael120]

I would not disagree that they were luxury picks that came at a very cheap price based on the bills value chart and scouts grades. Too early to tell though if they are mistakes.

The bills must think highly of the talent they already have to miss out on drafting their needs.

Ok...here's the big question then. If we go 7-9 or worse next season and JP shows no improvement, or very little, do we not resign him and start Edwards? You agree with me that he should excel so much better with the line and Lynch, right? So he has no excuses this year?

[Wally The Barber]

It always comes down to patience in Buffalo.

We can second guess every GM and coach since 1964

[The last buffalo fan]

A CB may not have started, but he would certainly have contributed more than Edwards, who hopefully won't see the field at all.

The thing about Edwards is, it's a worthwhile pick ONLY if several other things happen. If JP has a long-term injury, that's a bad thing in itself and it would just be a wash. If JP doesn't get hurt then Trent stays on the bench, and the pick is good only if another team gives us a higher pick for him, which is far from a given. And that's only if he turns out to be any good. Too many variables.

Think about the first day of this year's camp.



I would not disagree that they were luxury picks that came at a very cheap price based on the bills value chart and scouts grades. Too early to tell though if they are mistakes.

The bills must think highly of the talent they already have to miss out on drafting their needs.

They are running the show, and we really don't know what's in there or inside the organization. I'm not a good scout, hell I'm not even a football player nor a coach, but IMO there weren't players availables on the 3rd or 4th round that worthed the pick, and let's be honest, not even at the FA this year.

[Elminster]

It seems silly to take a 3rd-round corner to compete with a...how long has McGee been here again? and a 3rd-round corner from last year. The time to pick a corner with immediate impact was the first two rounds, and obviously, we didn't go that route and I don't think anyone is complaining about having Marshawn Lynch and Paul Poluszney. I'm also happy with signing Dockery instead of re-signing Clements. Line over corners, nearly every time.

As for Edwards....he was a great value. Who was on the board then...Daymeighon Hughes? I'm interested in hearing how he's doing, wherever he is. And are seriously going to tell me we could expect to find a starter in the 5th? The truth of the matter is that so many guys started because we had injuries and Donahoe left the cupboard bare, and, thankfully, they were quick studies, and probably exceeded our staff's expectations in terms of learning curve. I very much like Edwards for the following reasons...

1) If JP regresses(which seems highly unlikely, but, hey, it could happen) Edwards is a vastly more legitimate insurance policy than Craig Nall.

2) Trent Edwards, as mentioned above, could start in a year or two, on many teams. And thus makes a perfect back-up. He could also lead to a Schaub scenario where JP goes down, Edwards plays well, and we get some picks for him.

Really....drafting isn't easy. Best player available and need-based drafting are both lacking approaches. You must balance value vs. need....and who can argue that we couldn't use better QB and RB depth? A-Train won't be here forever, and if you count Shaud as "depth", you're kidding yourself....and I don't think Nall makes anyone feel safe...

[justasportsfan]

Ok...here's the big question then. If we go 7-9 or worse next season and JP shows no improvement, or very little, do we not resign him and start Edwards? You agree with me that he should excel so much better with the line and Lynch, right? So he has no excuses this year?

we don't have to resign him next year. He stays and continues to battle it out . Edwards would have to climb the ladder , pass Nall and then JP before we even think about starting him .

[X-Era]

I dunno, I'm from out of state and to get Bills info, I listen to WGR. I don't see why people think they're so bad. I'll take WGR over ESPN radio BS anyday. Mike and Mike? Are you kidding me?

your comparing driving nails in your knees to cutting off your arm.

Both are painful. One may be more or less painful but they both are painful.

I firmly believe that we cant make every necessary move in any one given year. Id offer that it usually cant even happen in two years. But after the third year, I think you should be 80% there or you have explaining to do.

Our D seems to have taken a hit. ONLY if you think replacing vets with youngsters means less success. Im not sure thats gong to be the case. TKO- career stunting injury, Fletch- old and small, Nate- up and down. Some of our youth, maybe all, may add less weakness and more success. Thats the hope, and Im willing to go along with it.

None of us knows, and WGR just gets off on regurgitating negativity day after day. Not my shtick.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

Specifically Trent Edwards and Wright.

They're saying that when you're a team as bad as the Bills who have glaring holes, you don't have the luxury of picking picks like that, and they even compared that to what Donahoe did, and if you think about it, it kind of rings true. We didn't need Roscoe Parrish, and we picked him up anyways. And as of right now, he hasn't really done much.

They also bring up the fact that we shouldnt have wasted a 3rd and 4th round pick on these guys seeing as we already have plenty of RB depth and also we have JP Losman and pretty hefty money thrown at Nall which has gone to waste. Our defense was horrible and we needed people on D-line and corner. You may say, "well man, they aren't going to be instant starters because it takes awhile for a dlineman or a corner to get acclimated to the NFL". Well I'd have to retort, hey moron, we have Ko Simpson who was a 4th rounder, we have Kyle Williams who was a 5th rounder, and we have Keith Ellison who was a 6th rounder and they ALL started in their rookie season and are starting this season.

Unfortunately their 3rd rounder Ashton Youboty hasn't panned out yet, nor has McCargo. Its unfortunate that we didnt do well early on in the draft and had to start players who were drafted later on. This year we got 2 immediate starters, and the other guys we drafted are all depth, and you REALLY have to question the ineptitude of that. We brought in two guys when we had 4 holes! 5 if you count WR!

I think it's a good debatable topic.


At this point, its all speculation. It's easy to criticize when (a) you can't be proven wrong (b) you don't have to provide an alternate scenario.

Who did they say should have been taken instead of Edwards and Wright? Trust me, Atlanta wishes it had hung on to Matt Schaub (a QB that the WGR guys would claim should not have been taken). Either way, Atlanta turned that 3rd round pick into good value. The Bills might be able to do the same. The Chargers could have turned a 5th round pick for Michael Turner into a 2nd round pick too.

The question of whether they were the right picks will depend on how they develop as pros more than anything else.

IMO, the McGahee pick didn't work out because he wasn't a great RB for the Bills, not because they already had Henry on the roster.

[DraftBoy]

Were the Edwards and Wright picks poor picks? I didnt like them on draft day because we had holes to fill and there were highly rated players (in my eyes, and maybe not the Bills) on the board still CB Micheal Coe who went to Indy in Round 5 is one Id point out. Just some names I liked better than Edwards and Wright in Rounds 3 and 4 are;

CB Daymeion Hughes-Indy
CB Tanard Jackson-TB
OLB Zak Deossie-NYG
OG Manuel Ramirez-Det
DT Marcus Thomas-DEN
OG Josh Beekman-CHI

[X-Era]

"At this point, its all speculation. It's easy to criticize when (a) you can't be proven wrong (b) you don't have to provide an alternate scenario."

Its a classic manuever to avoid being wrong and losing fanbase.

If you always speak conservative but hope for the best, you never have to be wrong and admit it.

[raphael120]

Well I think WGR Bills coverage is just a product of the Bills track record, you know what I mean?

Being from Pittsburgh, I've heard more negativity towards the Steelers last season than the Bills this season, and the Steelers won the superbowl that year before!

[raphael120]

Were the Edwards and Wright picks poor picks? I didnt like them on draft day because we had holes to fill and there were highly rated players (in my eyes, and maybe not the Bills) on the board still CB Micheal Coe who went to Indy in Round 5 is one Id point out. Just some names I liked better than Edwards and Wright in Rounds 3 and 4 are;

CB Daymeion Hughes-Indy
CB Tanard Jackson-TB
OLB Zak Deossie-NYG
OG Manuel Ramirez-Det
DT Marcus Thomas-DEN
OG Josh Beekman-CHI

It will be interesting to see how those players, especially hughes, plays out.

[DraftBoy]

It seems silly to take a 3rd-round corner to compete with a...how long has McGee been here again? and a 3rd-round corner from last year. The time to pick a corner with immediate impact was the first two rounds, and obviously, we didn't go that route and I don't think anyone is complaining about having Marshawn Lynch and Paul Poluszney. I'm also happy with signing Dockery instead of re-signing Clements. Line over corners, nearly every time.

As for Edwards....he was a great value. Who was on the board then...Daymeighon Hughes? I'm interested in hearing how he's doing, wherever he is. And are seriously going to tell me we could expect to find a starter in the 5th? The truth of the matter is that so many guys started because we had injuries and Donahoe left the cupboard bare, and, thankfully, they were quick studies, and probably exceeded our staff's expectations in terms of learning curve. I very much like Edwards for the following reasons...

1) If JP regresses(which seems highly unlikely, but, hey, it could happen) Edwards is a vastly more legitimate insurance policy than Craig Nall.

2) Trent Edwards, as mentioned above, could start in a year or two, on many teams. And thus makes a perfect back-up. He could also lead to a Schaub scenario where JP goes down, Edwards plays well, and we get some picks for him.

Really....drafting isn't easy. Best player available and need-based drafting are both lacking approaches. You must balance value vs. need....and who can argue that we couldn't use better QB and RB depth? A-Train won't be here forever, and if you count Shaud as "depth", you're kidding yourself....and I don't think Nall makes anyone feel safe...


Your hoping Edwards turns into the next Schaub and not the next Doug Johnson. Just because we took him does not mean he can start for almost any team in a year or 2. The guy has a ton to prove, because his college career pretty much proved nothing at all aside from he can play on a crappy team and be noticed.

[X-Era]

Were the Edwards and Wright picks poor picks? I didnt like them on draft day because we had holes to fill and there were highly rated players (in my eyes, and maybe not the Bills) on the board still CB Micheal Coe who went to Indy in Round 5 is one Id point out. Just some names I liked better than Edwards and Wright in Rounds 3 and 4 are;

CB Daymeion Hughes-Indy
CB Tanard Jackson-TB
OLB Zak Deossie-NYG
OG Manuel Ramirez-Det
DT Marcus Thomas-DEN
OG Josh Beekman-CHI

#1, #3, and #4 I agree with. But I would argue that if JP fails and Edwards becomes THE guy, it trumps what any of those could become. That said, I like the Edwards pick based on value, but dislike it based on need. Ramirez is the guy I would have grabbed.

I fully expect this years #1 to be a CB, Cason or Justin King. My second thought is Desean Jackson as a true #2 or insurance if Evans leaves.

[DraftBoy]

It will be interesting to see how those players, especially hughes, plays out.

Polian has one of the best track records in the league however that does not make them a lock or assume that Edwards or Wright will struggle.

[DraftBoy]

#1, #3, and #4 I agree with. But I would argue that if JP fails and Edwards becomes THE guy, it trumps what any of those could become. That said, I like the Edwards pick based on value, but dislike it based on need. Ramirez is the guy I would have grabbed.

I fully expect this years #1 to be a CB, Cason or Justin King. My second thought is Desean Jackson as a true #2 or insurance if Evans leaves.

Im sorry but I cant buy a defense that a pick was good you know only if the player in front of him (who hasnt really regressed) either fails or gets hurt. Doesnt justify a pick imo, we threw good money at Nall and picked this kid 3rd to be 3rd on the depth chart for atleast next season maybe the following.

[Mr. Pink]

It seems silly to take a 3rd-round corner to compete with a...how long has McGee been here again?

It seems silly to take a corner in the third round when our corners are arguably the weakest link on this team, that and DT, what kind of logic is that? Even if the third round corner we SHOULD have drafted over Trent only contributed as a dimeback, that's still more contribution than Trent SHOULD make to this team this year and the coming years.

As for Edwards....he was a great value. Who was on the board then...Daymeighon Hughes?

Hughes was drafted by the Colts after we took Edwards. Another Cover 2 team. Hmmm. I guess he is a fit for the cover 2 that we passed on. I don't know how well he is doing right now though.

1) If JP regresses(which seems highly unlikely, but, hey, it could happen) Edwards is a vastly more legitimate insurance policy than Craig Nall.

Speculation. Edwards isn't vastly more legitimate than anyone not a rookie on an NFL roster right now. Edwards is an unknown that if everything plays out right, we should NEVER find out if he's good as an NFL player. Hence, why a bad pick.

2) Trent Edwards, as mentioned above, could start in a year or two, on many teams. And thus makes a perfect back-up. He could also lead to a Schaub scenario where JP goes down, Edwards plays well, and we get some picks for him.

Edwards could start in a year or two? What do you base this on exactly? He didn't perform very well in college, as has been pointed out ad naseaum by many posters. But now you expect him to be an NFL caliber starter in a year or two? Especially when he shouldn't see the field. I don't think in terms of injury to my starting QB of what's going to happen...it's flawed logic in my opinion.

Really....drafting isn't easy. Best player available and need-based drafting are both lacking approaches. You must balance value vs. need....and who can argue that we couldn't use better QB and RB depth? A-Train won't be here forever, and if you count Shaud as "depth", you're kidding yourself....and I don't think Nall makes anyone feel safe...


Just my opinions on the Edwards pick. I've said them since he was picked. It was a ridiculous choice and a wasted pick. If we wanted better backup insurance, we coulda traded that pick to KC for Trent Green...or traded them a 5th. And used a 3rd round pick on a position of need to better this team on the field, not pick up someone we thought was "great value." Edwards vs Nall = Unknown vs Unknown. We have no idea which guy is better. We have glaring holes at WR, DT, CB, TE...why not use a DAY ONE pick on a guy who can contribute at a place of need instead of getting a clipboard holder? I think that's the main point of this thread and discussion on GR.

[Scumbag College]

I like the Bills picks this year. A-Train isn't a long term option, even as a backup. Lynch and Wright will be a nice one-two punch with two different styles in the running game for years to come if they stay healthy.

As for the Edwards pick, I think the Bills FO were sitting at that spot in the third round and didn't see a player that they thought could come in and contribute or thought that four years down the road would be a difference maker or could come right in and make an immediate impact. The Edwards pick was pure speculation (like most of the draft) that if JP stinks it up, gets a serious injury, etc. that could be groomed as the future QB. Also, if Edwards gets any type of serious playing time and shines after a brief JP injury, well we could have a Rob Johnson situation on our hands (with the Bills on the winning side of the deal) with a team desperate for a QB willing to give up a first round pick if the draft class is weak.

[DraftBoy]

I also think Cason/King is the likely 1st Rounder next year, unless we completely suck then we may be looking at Campbell or Dorsey.

[DraftBoy]

I like the Bills picks this year. A-Train isn't a long term option, even as a backup. Lynch and Wright will be a nice one-two punch with two different styles in the running game for years to come if they stay healthy.

As for the Edwards pick, I think the Bills FO were sitting at that spot in the third round and didn't see a player that they thought could come in and contribute or thought that four years down the road would be a difference maker or could come right in and make an immediate impact. The Edwards pick was pure speculation (like most of the draft) that if JP stinks it up, gets a serious injury, etc. that could be groomed as the future QB. Also, if Edwards gets any type of serious playing time and shines after a brief JP injury, well we could have a Rob Johnson situation on our hands (with the Bills on the winning side of the deal) with a team desperate for a QB willing to give up a first round pick if the draft class is weak.



Not every QB picked becomes the next Matt Schaub, thats like a 1 in a million hit. It just doesnt happen like that.

[patmoran2006]

Specifically Trent Edwards and Wright.

They're saying that when you're a team as bad as the Bills who have glaring holes, you don't have the luxury of picking picks like that, and they even compared that to what Donahoe did, and if you think about it, it kind of rings true. We didn't need Roscoe Parrish, and we picked him up anyways. And as of right now, he hasn't really done much.

They also bring up the fact that we shouldnt have wasted a 3rd and 4th round pick on these guys seeing as we already have plenty of RB depth and also we have JP Losman and pretty hefty money thrown at Nall which has gone to waste. Our defense was horrible and we needed people on D-line and corner. You may say, "well man, they aren't going to be instant starters because it takes awhile for a dlineman or a corner to get acclimated to the NFL". Well I'd have to retort, hey moron, we have Ko Simpson who was a 4th rounder, we have Kyle Williams who was a 5th rounder, and we have Keith Ellison who was a 6th rounder and they ALL started in their rookie season and are starting this season.

Unfortunately their 3rd rounder Ashton Youboty hasn't panned out yet, nor has McCargo. Its unfortunate that we didnt do well early on in the draft and had to start players who were drafted later on. This year we got 2 immediate starters, and the other guys we drafted are all depth, and you REALLY have to question the ineptitude of that. We brought in two guys when we had 4 holes! 5 if you count WR!

I think it's a good debatable topic.
I've been saying for a while that the way Levy drafts and the way Donahoe drafts are VERY SIMILAR.

Both seem to take what they deem as the BPA over a need.

Nobody in their right mind is going to tell me we couldnt have used a CB, DT or WR in this draft over a RB (after we already drafted Lynch and resigned ATrain) and a QB.

Maybe these guys will work out. But they were luxury picks first and foremost.

[DraftBoy]

Just my opinions on the Edwards pick. I've said them since he was picked. It was a ridiculous choice and a wasted pick. If we wanted better backup insurance, we coulda traded that pick to KC for Trent Green...or traded them a 5th. And used a 3rd round pick on a position of need to better this team on the field, not pick up someone we thought was "great value." Edwards vs Nall = Unknown vs Unknown. We have no idea which guy is better. We have glaring holes at WR, DT, CB, TE...why not use a DAY ONE pick on a guy who can contribute at a place of need instead of getting a clipboard holder? I think that's the main point of this thread and discussion on GR.


Agreed :bf1:

[Ebenezer]

I had no problems with the Edwards pick but personally Wright was a luxury pick they shouldn't have made.

[DraftBoy]

I've been saying for a while that the way Levy drafts and the way Donahoe drafts are VERY SIMILAR.

Both seem to take what they deem as the BPA over a need.

Nobody in their right mind is going to tell me we couldnt have used a CB, DT or WR in this draft over a RB (after we already drafted Lynch and resigned ATrain) and a QB.

Maybe these guys will work out. But they were luxury picks first and foremost.



And since he popped in and posted in the thread, Pat about crapped the bed when we passed on Hughes for Edwards and then Indy grabbed him.

He was the biggest Hughes fan from before Bowl season if I remeber correctly. He had that guy pegged from the beginning.

[DraftBoy]

I had no problems with the Edwards pick but personally Wright was a luxury pick they shouldn't have made.


Only issues I have is;

1) Picking a guy that only plays in case of an injury (Round 5 or later please, not before)
2) Matt Schaub effect

[Ebenezer]

Only issues I have is;

1) Picking a guy that only plays in case of an injury (Round 5 or later please, not before)
2) Matt Schaub effect
I truly think that unless JP lights it up this year they are willing to cut losses and go with Edwards (not that I agree with it). I think JP has until the bye week 2008 to really show.

[Scumbag College]

Not every QB picked becomes the next Matt Schaub, thats like a 1 in a million hit. It just doesnt happen like that.

Cullpepper, Hasselback, Schaub, Rob Johnson, A.J Feeley, and Drew Bledsoe are some QBs that, right or wrong, teams have traded high draft picks to have come to them.

[DraftBoy]

I truly think that unless JP lights it up this year they are willing to cut losses and go with Edwards (not that I agree with it). I think JP has until the bye week 2008 to really show.


Really? Now that could be interesting, also would destroy the fan base but it wouldnt surprise me, Ive said since last year that JP is not a Marv guy and Marv may look to replace him.

[DraftBoy]

Cullpepper, Hasselback, Schaub, Rob Johnson, A.J Feeley, and Drew Bledsoe are some QBs that, right or wrong, teams have traded high draft picks to have come to them.


Wow so you have 5 names out of maybe 100 QB's who have picked or signed? And none of those guys outside of Johnson went for a 1st round pick. Schaub went for a 2 spot move down with more added on.

[BILLSROCK1212]

Yes these were great value picks but WGR is 100% right and the only person who won't realize that is a HOMER.

[Night Train]

HAHAHAHA ! Listen to WGR !

Wait.. you're SERIOUS ! :lol:

[Typ0]

I thought it was an interesting conversation but there were off base in some areas. Mainly, the Bills organization spent at least $1M on evaluating players and scouting for the draft, to just say they shouldn't pick according to what their findings are is just blatant stupidity. If they came out and said Trent Edwards was a high value pick at that time and they didn't like the value of anyone else, then they take Trent Edwards or they just fire the entire scouting department and listen to Mel Kipperfish.

[Typ0]

Wrapped up like a deuce. WGR is funny they stretch so far for material in a very light market for sports news.

[X-Era]

Yes these were great value picks but WGR is 100% right and the only person who won't realize that is a HOMER.

Is that you Howard Simon??

[Philagape]

Your hoping Edwards turns into the next Schaub and not the next Doug Johnson.

Or Rob Johnson

[The Spaz]

WGR blows that is all...

[Mitchy moo]

All I know is after this last draft we had, it looks we have a few gamers out on the field already. No multi-year learning curve with Poz, he looks ready. Our WM replacement wins hands down on class versus him and looks to be the beast behind our revamped Oline.

Say what you will but I see better times thanks to our good choices, come what may.

[Philagape]

As for Edwards being "insurance" for Losman .... Insurance doesn't make a team better. It maintains the status quo (maybe, if he's as good) in case an injury happens (which may not be necessary). The Bills aren't good enough to use a first-day pick on maintaining the status quo. The status quo is bad. They need to try to get better.

[patmoran2006]

Does WGR blow? Yes

But does the Marv-led bills draft similar to the Donahoe-led Bills?
You bet ya.

Our lines were supposed to be priority #1 when Marv took over, yet exactly ONE of our 9 draft picks so far in rounds 1-4 were on the line (McCargo)

As for us getting the lines better via FA.. Well Donahoe signed plenty of Fa's for the lines too, and they didnt work out...

Lets hope that Dockery is magical.

The benefit I'll give the Marv led drafts is that he seems to be able to find later round steals much better than when TD was the GM.

[patmoran2006]

And since he popped in and posted in the thread, Pat about crapped the bed when we passed on Hughes for Edwards and then Indy grabbed him.

He was the biggest Hughes fan from before Bowl season if I remeber correctly. He had that guy pegged from the beginning.

It's the second of two huge mistakes Marv has made on draft days as things pan out in my opinion.

Number one was obviously trading up for McCargo instead of Mangold..

Hughes is going to be a very good corner in the NFL and I'd be not surprised at all if he's starting in Indy before the end of his rookie season.

I dont dislike Edwards at all, I just think it was a stupid pick.. When is a team that continously loses going to start drafting and building for the PRESENT instead of the future.... If Losman plays well and he's extended, Edwards will never play in a Bills uniform.

So in three years we trade Edwards for a second rounder ala like the Falcons did? So ****ing what.. We used a third rounder to get him, and in three years we get a second rounder.. In the meantime for three years before we deal him we get donkey **** out of the pick? What the **** kind of logic is that people?

[DraftBoy]

It's the second of two huge mistakes Marv has made on draft days as things pan out in my opinion.

Number one was obviously trading up for McCargo instead of Mangold..

Hughes is going to be a very good corner in the NFL and I'd be not surprised at all if he's starting in Indy before the end of his rookie season.

I dont dislike Edwards at all, I just think it was a stupid pick.. When is a team that continously loses going to start drafting and building for the PRESENT instead of the future.... If Losman plays well and he's extended, Edwards will never play in a Bills uniform.

So in three years we trade Edwards for a second rounder ala like the Falcons did? So ****ing what.. We used a third rounder to get him, and in three years we get a second rounder.. In the meantime for three years before we deal him we get donkey **** out of the pick? What the **** kind of logic is that people?


Outside of your outbursts I dont think we'll get a 2nd rounder for Edwards who I dont see ever really playing for us. But I do agree about Hughes.

[patmoran2006]

my point was if we did in three years.. WHO CARES.

We gain one round over three years, while in the meantime we draft a guy who leaves ass-stains on the bench during that span..

And I dont know how anyone can be sold on a QB who went like 0-7 last year at Stanford. OF course that doesnt mean he sucks but what did ANYONE see that suggests he's the next great Bills steal?

[DraftBoy]

my point was if we did in three years.. WHO CARES.

We gain one round over three years, while in the meantime we draft a guy who leaves ass-stains on the bench during that span..

And I dont know how anyone can be sold on a QB who went like 0-7 last year at Stanford. OF course that doesnt mean he sucks but what did ANYONE see that suggests he's the next great Bills steal?


Its simple, we picked him, therefor he will be good ala the next Matt Schaub

[TigerJ]

The argument is, I guess, that the Bills should have taken a player at an area of obvious need. There were several such areas at the time the Bills drafted Edwards. Specifically, the Bills should have drafted a cornerback, or maybe a defensive tackle or a guard. I think the Bills would respond, if they actually did respond to fans on questions like this, was that they didn't feel like there was a player available at any one of those positions that their scouting staff felt could come in and start or help the team immediately. Moreover, there wasn't a player available at any one of those spots who represented solid value.

It's true, Buffalo has depth players at those positions. Greer, Thomas, and Youboty are all solid depth players at the very least. We don't really need more depth players. It's the starter we're not so sure about. Rather than draft another question mark, when you alread have an ample supply of those, why not draft a guy you really like? Well, we don't need a QB. No, not this year, but if you really can't help the team this year at CB, DT,WR, or G in the third round, is it really bad strategy to take a guy who could A. provide insurance in 2008 should Losman's health come into question, B. provide insurance in case Losman prove difficult to sign to a long term extension or he regresses this year and you're not so sure you want him as a long term starter.

I can really only agree with WGR's (Mike Shoop's) argument if it can b reasonably stated that there was a starter at a position where Buffalo needs a starter waiting to be picked where Buffalo picked Edwards, and I don't think there was.

[DraftBoy]

The argument is, I guess, that the Bills should have taken a player at an area of obvious need. There were several such areas at the time the Bills drafted Edwards. Specifically, the Bills should have drafted a cornerback, or maybe a defensive tackle or a guard. I think the Bills would respond, if they actually did respond to fans on questions like this, was that they didn't feel like there was a player available at any one of those positions that their scouting staff felt could come in and start or help the team immediately. Moreover, there wasn't a player available at any one of those spots who represented solid value.

It's true, Buffalo has depth players at those positions. Greer, Thomas, and Youboty are all solid depth players at the very least. We don't really need more depth players. It's the starter we're not so sure about. Rather than draft another question mark, when you alread have an ample supply of those, why not draft a guy you really like? Well, we don't need a QB. No, not this year, but if you really can't help the team this year at CB, DT,WR, or G in the third round, is it really bad strategy to take a guy who could A. provide insurance in 2008 should Losman's health come into question, B. provide insurance in case Losman prove difficult to sign to a long term extension or he regresses this year and you're not so sure you want him as a long term starter.

I can really only agree with WGR's (Mike Shoop's) argument if it can b reasonably stated that there was a starter at a position where Buffalo needs a starter waiting to be picked where Buffalo picked Edwards, and I don't think there was.

Good points and I agree with you that their likely retort would be that however I think both Hughes and Coe could be starters in this league. Just imo.

[HHURRICANE]

The only issue I have is that I was counting on 2 years of rebuilding and not 4.

[patmoran2006]

The argument is, I guess, that the Bills should have taken a player at an area of obvious need. There were several such areas at the time the Bills drafted Edwards. Specifically, the Bills should have drafted a cornerback, or maybe a defensive tackle or a guard. I think the Bills would respond, if they actually did respond to fans on questions like this, was that they didn't feel like there was a player available at any one of those positions that their scouting staff felt could come in and start or help the team immediately. Moreover, there wasn't a player available at any one of those spots who represented solid value.

It's true, Buffalo has depth players at those positions. Greer, Thomas, and Youboty are all solid depth players at the very least. We don't really need more depth players. It's the starter we're not so sure about. Rather than draft another question mark, when you alread have an ample supply of those, why not draft a guy you really like? Well, we don't need a QB. No, not this year, but if you really can't help the team this year at CB, DT,WR, or G in the third round, is it really bad strategy to take a guy who could A. provide insurance in 2008 should Losman's health come into question, B. provide insurance in case Losman prove difficult to sign to a long term extension or he regresses this year and you're not so sure you want him as a long term starter.

I can really only agree with WGR's (Mike Shoop's) argument if it can b reasonably stated that there was a starter at a position where Buffalo needs a starter waiting to be picked where Buffalo picked Edwards, and I don't think there was.
Excellent post, and good quality points.

Well done.

[BILLSROCK1212]

All I know is after this last draft we had, it looks we have a few gamers out on the field already. No multi-year learning curve with Poz, he looks ready. Our WM replacement wins hands down on class versus him and looks to be the beast behind our revamped Oline.

Say what you will but I see better times thanks to our good choices, come what may.agreed....i think everyone agrees with you here but although Wright and Edwards can end up being great players for this team I believe we could've or maybe should've used these picks on needs and not high value players unless we are building to win later rather than sooner

[patmoran2006]

Poz is not ready.

He has a ton of work to do in the passing game.

He looks solid against the run though.

Definitely could become a great player, but to suggest that's ready right NOW to step in and be a solid NFL LB from day one is reaching in my opinion.

I think he'll have his ups and downs this year, as would be expected with any rookie starter-- with the exception of a few homers on here who can dis Brick Ferguson after he started and struggled as a rookie at Left Tackle, perhaps the hardest position in the NFL other than QB to master.

[TigerJ]

Good points and I agree with you that their likely retort would be that however I think both Hughes and Coe could be starters in this league. Just imo.

It's possible. Hughes was drafted four picks later by the Colts, another Tampa 2 team. I know the Tampa 2 places more of a premium on discipline and technique, but man that 4.7 40 time is pretty scary in a CB, and not in a good way. Michael Coe lasted all the way until the end of the fifth round. I wondered of Paul Solial had enough athleticism to become a DT in the Tampa 2. He was raw and had warts, but he sure is quick for a big man. From here on out, it will be a question of hindsight. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

[DraftBoy]

It's possible. Hughes was drafted four picks later by the Colts, another Tampa 2 team. I know the Tampa 2 places more of a premium on discipline and technique, but man that 4.7 40 time is pretty scary in a CB, and not in a good way. Michael Coe lasted all the way until the end of the fifth round. I wondered of Paul Solial had enough athleticism to become a DT in the Tampa 2. He was raw and had warts, but he sure is quick for a big man. From here on out, it will be a question of hindsight. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.


Hughes ran in the 4.5 at the Cal stadium, I dont know why he ran so slow at the Combine, doesnt make much sense but we'll see. Coe has all the skill, size and speed of the top corners but playing for inferior competition hurt him, he was a DI-AA prospect. He was also one of my sleepers going in so Im a little bias. As for Solial he was quick as hell and was probably worth a flyer, but wasnt he a bit undersized?

[Mitchy moo]

agreed....i think everyone agrees with you here but although Wright and Edwards can end up being great players for this team I believe we could've or maybe should've used these picks on needs and not high value players unless we are building to win later rather than sooner

Time will be the judge as to what to make of this past draft. I just see 2 guys that have me personally excited for our future and a few others that may give us more depth at different positions. If JP was to get a career threatening injury, who plays QB at that point ?

[YardRat]

I'll trust in Marv until proven otherwise.

[raphael120]

One other thing is, hypothetically speaking, if JP sucks this season, or if we don't want to resign him next year, we make Edwards our QB of the future.

Not only will you seriously piss off the fan base because we will be AGAIN going through another "rebuilding" with a young, new QB, but we'll truely be rebuilding another team because if we do start Edwards next season, it will take him at least 2 or 3 seasons to get good, and then what? That's 4 seasons from now, all of our draft picks last year, their contracts will be up, as will our draft picks this year too. We'll have to restart all over again.

If Trent Edwards is a backup plan, i REALLY hope for the Bills sake that it doesn't come to that. Just because of this whole rebuilding process we will have to go through again. You can see people so happy about the changing of the guard, Marv coming in and saving the franchise and "we're going to start getting us back on track now!" stuff, can you imagine if JP is a bust, leaves, and we have to start this crap all over again? It's donadope all over again, it's yet ANOTHER 3 year rebuilding process, and who knows if Marv or Ralph will live for 3 more years.

Trent Edwards isn't an insurance policy, he's a nuclear bunker shelter because if we're having to use our little nuclear bunker it means **** has hit the fan and we have to go in hiding for a little bit until the smoke clears because its NOT going to look pretty if it comes to that.

[TigerJ]

Hughes ran in the 4.5 at the Cal stadium, I dont know why he ran so slow at the Combine, doesnt make much sense but we'll see. Coe has all the skill, size and speed of the top corners but playing for inferior competition hurt him, he was a DI-AA prospect. He was also one of my sleepers going in so Im a little bias. As for Solial he was quick as hell and was probably worth a flyer, but wasnt he a bit undersized?

If I recall corectly, Solial measured 6'4" and 340 lbs. I didn't know Hughes had the 4.5. That's not bad at all for a Tampa 2 CB.

[DraftBoy]

Hughes 4.5 was in the preseason at spring practices

your right about Soliai, 6'4, 344 playing for the Dolphins

[henrybacker]

I'll trust in Marv until proven otherwise.

Can you please tell me how you felt about the contracts to Reed,Price, the O-line this off-season, trading for Walker and then not signing him? Why is it hard for people to say that Marv might have been a HOF coach but a lousy GM?

[mysticsoto]

Hughes ran in the 4.5 at the Cal stadium, I dont know why he ran so slow at the Combine, doesnt make much sense but we'll see. Coe has all the skill, size and speed of the top corners but playing for inferior competition hurt him, he was a DI-AA prospect. He was also one of my sleepers going in so Im a little bias. As for Solial he was quick as hell and was probably worth a flyer, but wasnt he a bit undersized?

I wonder if maybe the FO saw Hughes as a bit soft - and that though he might turn out to be an okay CB, he wouldn't contribute much on ST??? As of now, Indy has him listed at 3rd string CB, so he wouldn't likely be contributing much with us here anyway. He may turn out and get better, but at this point, it's up in the air...

[BlackMetalNinja]

My biggest problem with the Bills drafting habits is that everybody and their brother have known that both the O Line and D Line have been our biggest needs for a few years now and they continually neglect them.

Here, this sums up my opinion basically:


Buffalo has fallen into the bad habit of spending its top draft choices on skinny gentlemen -- defensive backs and wide receivers. In the past five drafts, Buffalo has had 14 picks in the first three rounds and used only three on linemen. Buffalo has just one lineman on its roster who was drafted in the first round. In the Super Bowl, Chicago started four linemen in the first round and Indianapolis started three.

Source: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrookpreview/070814&sportCat=nfl#bills

[hydro]

My biggest problem with the Bills drafting habits is that everybody and their brother have known that both the O Line and D Line have been our biggest needs for a few years now and they continually neglect them.

Here, this sums up my opinion basically:



Source: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrookpreview/070814&sportCat=nfl#bills

Thats a real eye opener :goodpost:

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I didn't care for the Wright pick because I think you can find those type RBs anywhere. The player that I was hoping for was Zac Deossie, the LB from Brown. I guess time will tell about this pick.

I am OK with the Edwards pick. I am guessing they think it is a pick that they might be able to turn into a bigger pick or use him in the future when JP's contract is up. I love Edward's talent.

[DraftBoy]

I wonder if maybe the FO saw Hughes as a bit soft - and that though he might turn out to be an okay CB, he wouldn't contribute much on ST??? As of now, Indy has him listed at 3rd string CB, so he wouldn't likely be contributing much with us here anyway. He may turn out and get better, but at this point, it's up in the air...


Oh yea there was concerns about Hughes aggressiveness since he was strictly a Cover 2 CB, I wasnt completely sold on his tackling ability in the open field either. However when you have 8 CB's, and two proven starters 3rd on the depth chart is somewhat expected for a rookie. We dont even have 6 CB's only two of which are decent starters. I think picking either Hughes or my preference in Coe would of been a smarter pick, but I can be wrong, we will see in 3 seasons time.

[Wys Guy]

Specifically Trent Edwards and Wright.

They're saying that when you're a team as bad as the Bills who have glaring holes, you don't have the luxury of picking picks like that, and they even compared that to what Donahoe did, and if you think about it, it kind of rings true. We didn't need Roscoe Parrish, and we picked him up anyways. And as of right now, he hasn't really done much.

They also bring up the fact that we shouldnt have wasted a 3rd and 4th round pick on these guys seeing as we already have plenty of RB depth and also we have JP Losman and pretty hefty money thrown at Nall which has gone to waste. Our defense was horrible and we needed people on D-line and corner. You may say, "well man, they aren't going to be instant starters because it takes awhile for a dlineman or a corner to get acclimated to the NFL". Well I'd have to retort, hey moron, we have Ko Simpson who was a 4th rounder, we have Kyle Williams who was a 5th rounder, and we have Keith Ellison who was a 6th rounder and they ALL started in their rookie season and are starting this season.

Unfortunately their 3rd rounder Ashton Youboty hasn't panned out yet, nor has McCargo. Its unfortunate that we didnt do well early on in the draft and had to start players who were drafted later on. This year we got 2 immediate starters, and the other guys we drafted are all depth, and you REALLY have to question the ineptitude of that. We brought in two guys when we had 4 holes! 5 if you count WR!

I think it's a good debatable topic.
Hey raphael, yeah, that's exactly right. It's common sense really. My pieces lay that all out in detail.

Contrary to the excuses that some fans will make, you absolutely need to get production from your day-one picks in their first seasons. If you aren't getting it in their second seasons, then there's no need to "wait three or four years to judge a draft." If day one picks aren't doing much to play at least to an average level, hopefully somewhat more, by season two, then it's not at all too soon to begin speaking bust.

As to day-two picks Simpson, Ellison, and Williams, the latter two are nowhere near even average yet based on regular season play. They may step up to that this season, but thus far there's no indication that it will happen. Simpson, as I've said all along, I expect to be better than Whitner, and while he's still not average at the position, he played better than any of our other rookies last year with the exception of perhaps Whitner who played comparably as well.

As I laid out in post draft pieces, this draft was very Donadope-esque indeed. Think about it.

3rd rounder, apart from just being a bad pick anyway IMO, won't play this or next season.

4th rounder Wright, if he ends up getting many snaps, what will that have meant? That Lynch isn't all of what he was supposed to be and that Thomas has regressed. Those would not be good indicators and as much as we could then rave about Wright, we'd have to call out those that drafted Lynch. I don't expect that to happen BTW.

No 5th, 6th rounder Wendling; ditto. if he plays, then what does it mean? It means that one of last season's much higher picks, 1st/4th, isn't panning out.

Look at it this way; suppose we spend our 1st rounder every year on a DT. Every year. and finally in the fifth season we get a good one while the prior four never attained to even average play. Should we tout a front office for being really good to have gotten such a DT?

As an analogy, suppose you are an investor; You throw $10K at a penny stock. It fails. You do it again, it fails. Again, failure. Once more, failure. A fifth time, you triple your money over the short term? Wouldn't you have just been better off taking all that money and investing it at even just 5%?

Yet, too many fans utterly ignore the "bad" about this organization as if them sticking their heads in the sand eliminates those poor decisions. It's also why we deserve what we get for management as long as nonsense like that is supported.

But the most important thing in this entire mix is simple and often overlooked. How many times have we as football fans heard the statements, "if you can't stop the run you won't win many games;" or "if you can't run the ball you won't advance very far in the playoffs?"

Tons of times. It's a very simple, yet tried and true, yet we ignore it. You get good running games by having a great line. You stop the run by having a great line.

Our solutions: McNally, lots of talk propping him up as if his own OL shouldn't speak for him. Guys brought on like Bennie Anderson, Ross Tucker, Lawrence Smith, Mike Gandy, Tutan Reyes, Melvin Fowler, and now Langston Walker, who's no different than anyone on that list, and Dockery, who's good, but far from superlative yet who is the highest paid Bills player ever I think.

We draft players in rounds 4-7 as our "youth," but the fact is that our personnel department has not track record of success at all, much less in their assessments of linemen. It's the same personnel office that Donadope installed. That's another reason why I discredit Levy. I'd have tossed those dopes instantaneously upon arrival.

Defensively, they've focused on the DTs more than any other position on this team. They picked up Tripplett. I did the due diligence and told us exactly what he was. I was spot on. Why couldn't they be? He's terrible, a backup caliber player now the highest paid DT in team history.

Ditto for McCargo. I still see nothing collegiately even justifying his 1st round status or even 2nd. He's a bust and I'm 100% confident of that. At best he'll be a backup.

Kyle Williams is a 5th rounder and playing like one. Not a bad pick, but certainly no superstar to be sure. Gets pushed around like a rag doll by average or better linemen.

Walker, a slap in the face to Levy and one that IMO he deserves.

Anderson, a holdover, but frankly, not much different from the garbage that this FO has brought on.

But if you really want to know how stupid and dumb our FO and team is, consider that last season they actually uttered the statements that they didn't want DTs over 300 lbs. "because they didn't fit the system."

If that doesn't concern every Bills fan, then I don't know what does. That's one of the stupidest statements ever made about football coming from our own team leaders. It also shows that they just don't know WTH they're even talking about.

BTW, how heavy is McCargo this year and they're saying it's good? Absoutely perplexing and astonishing. But no one, besides me, calls them out on it.

So for anyone expecting a good team, it's only gonna happen by accident here with this crew in leadership.

They don't have the first clue about the fundamentals of the game, truly. And that means we'll never have a good team. We may achieve a good record on a soft schedule or vs. a string of really banged up teams ala '04. But otherwise, these guys will never have us competing on a proverbial level playing field.

But the bottom line on our draft, we got two guys capable of starting this year and lost more than that in numbers and far more in experience. So one or both of our "eggs" in the basket had better hatch into an eagle, or it's gonna get ugly really fast. Even if one or both do develop, we may hold sway as a well below average team and avoid challenging for league worst. That's a best case scenario.

[ibatiger]

Specifically Trent Edwards and Wright.

They're saying that when you're a team as bad as the Bills who have glaring holes, you don't have the luxury of picking picks like that, and they even compared that to what Donahoe did, and if you think about it, it kind of rings true. We didn't need Roscoe Parrish, and we picked him up anyways. And as of right now, he hasn't really done much.

They also bring up the fact that we shouldnt have wasted a 3rd and 4th round pick on these guys seeing as we already have plenty of RB depth and also we have JP Losman and pretty hefty money thrown at Nall which has gone to waste. Our defense was horrible and we needed people on D-line and corner. You may say, "well man, they aren't going to be instant starters because it takes awhile for a dlineman or a corner to get acclimated to the NFL". Well I'd have to retort, hey moron, we have Ko Simpson who was a 4th rounder, we have Kyle Williams who was a 5th rounder, and we have Keith Ellison who was a 6th rounder and they ALL started in their rookie season and are starting this season.

Unfortunately their 3rd rounder Ashton Youboty hasn't panned out yet, nor has McCargo. Its unfortunate that we didnt do well early on in the draft and had to start players who were drafted later on. This year we got 2 immediate starters, and the other guys we drafted are all depth, and you REALLY have to question the ineptitude of that. We brought in two guys when we had 4 holes! 5 if you count WR!

I think it's a good debatable topic.

Nall is not being paid more than any good backup should be. Do they want him to replace an injuried Losman before they say he is not a waste? He's insurance. You have to pay for insurance. It's not a waste.

[ibatiger]

As for Edwards....he was a great value.

Maybe and maybe not. It appears he is being pushed along to be trade bait. Time will tell.

I very much like Edwards for the following reasons...

1) If JP regresses(which seems highly unlikely, but, hey, it could happen) Edwards is a vastly more legitimate insurance policy than Craig Nall.

No NFL experience. Nobody knows if he will do it. Many good looking first rounders couldn't do it when real bullets started flying and they were asked to throw it past the line of scrimmage. Edwards is all theory at this point. Nothing proven. Nall has performed well every opportunity he's gotten. Far more proven than Edwards.

2) Trent Edwards, as mentioned above, could start in a year or two, on many teams. And thus makes a perfect back-up. He could also lead to a Schaub scenario where JP goes down, Edwards plays well, and we get some picks for him.

If Edwards can actually play in the league.

Really....drafting isn't easy. Best player available and need-based drafting are both lacking approaches. You must balance value vs. need....and who can argue that we couldn't use better QB and RB depth? A-Train won't be here forever, and if you count Shaud as "depth", you're kidding yourself....and I don't think Nall makes anyone feel safe...

I'm feel totally safe with Nall. You would too if long sustained drives that end with points on the board interest you. That's all he's ever done. Until he stops doing that I would put my money on him and not Edwards. The trend is your friend.

[raphael120]

Hey raphael, yeah, that's exactly right. It's common sense really. My pieces lay that all out in detail.

Contrary to the excuses that some fans will make, you absolutely need to get production from your day-one picks in their first seasons. If you aren't getting it in their second seasons, then there's no need to "wait three or four years to judge a draft." If day one picks aren't doing much to play at least to an average level, hopefully somewhat more, by season two, then it's not at all too soon to begin speaking bust.

As to day-two picks Simpson, Ellison, and Williams, the latter two are nowhere near even average yet based on regular season play. They may step up to that this season, but thus far there's no indication that it will happen. Simpson, as I've said all along, I expect to be better than Whitner, and while he's still not average at the position, he played better than any of our other rookies last year with the exception of perhaps Whitner who played comparably as well.

As I laid out in post draft pieces, this draft was very Donadope-esque indeed. Think about it.

3rd rounder, apart from just being a bad pick anyway IMO, won't play this or next season.

4th rounder Wright, if he ends up getting many snaps, what will that have meant? That Lynch isn't all of what he was supposed to be and that Thomas has regressed. Those would not be good indicators and as much as we could then rave about Wright, we'd have to call out those that drafted Lynch. I don't expect that to happen BTW.

No 5th, 6th rounder Wendling; ditto. if he plays, then what does it mean? It means that one of last season's much higher picks, 1st/4th, isn't panning out.

Look at it this way; suppose we spend our 1st rounder every year on a DT. Every year. and finally in the fifth season we get a good one while the prior four never attained to even average play. Should we tout a front office for being really good to have gotten such a DT?

As an analogy, suppose you are an investor; You throw $10K at a penny stock. It fails. You do it again, it fails. Again, failure. Once more, failure. A fifth time, you triple your money over the short term? Wouldn't you have just been better off taking all that money and investing it at even just 5%?

Yet, too many fans utterly ignore the "bad" about this organization as if them sticking their heads in the sand eliminates those poor decisions. It's also why we deserve what we get for management as long as nonsense like that is supported.

But the most important thing in this entire mix is simple and often overlooked. How many times have we as football fans heard the statements, "if you can't stop the run you won't win many games;" or "if you can't run the ball you won't advance very far in the playoffs?"

Tons of times. It's a very simple, yet tried and true, yet we ignore it. You get good running games by having a great line. You stop the run by having a great line.

Our solutions: McNally, lots of talk propping him up as if his own OL shouldn't speak for him. Guys brought on like Bennie Anderson, Ross Tucker, Lawrence Smith, Mike Gandy, Tutan Reyes, Melvin Fowler, and now Langston Walker, who's no different than anyone on that list, and Dockery, who's good, but far from superlative yet who is the highest paid Bills player ever I think.

We draft players in rounds 4-7 as our "youth," but the fact is that our personnel department has not track record of success at all, much less in their assessments of linemen. It's the same personnel office that Donadope installed. That's another reason why I discredit Levy. I'd have tossed those dopes instantaneously upon arrival.

Defensively, they've focused on the DTs more than any other position on this team. They picked up Tripplett. I did the due diligence and told us exactly what he was. I was spot on. Why couldn't they be? He's terrible, a backup caliber player now the highest paid DT in team history.

Ditto for McCargo. I still see nothing collegiately even justifying his 1st round status or even 2nd. He's a bust and I'm 100% confident of that. At best he'll be a backup.

Kyle Williams is a 5th rounder and playing like one. Not a bad pick, but certainly no superstar to be sure. Gets pushed around like a rag doll by average or better linemen.

Walker, a slap in the face to Levy and one that IMO he deserves.

Anderson, a holdover, but frankly, not much different from the garbage that this FO has brought on.

But if you really want to know how stupid and dumb our FO and team is, consider that last season they actually uttered the statements that they didn't want DTs over 300 lbs. "because they didn't fit the system."

If that doesn't concern every Bills fan, then I don't know what does. That's one of the stupidest statements ever made about football coming from our own team leaders. It also shows that they just don't know WTH they're even talking about.

BTW, how heavy is McCargo this year and they're saying it's good? Absoutely perplexing and astonishing. But no one, besides me, calls them out on it.

So for anyone expecting a good team, it's only gonna happen by accident here with this crew in leadership.

They don't have the first clue about the fundamentals of the game, truly. And that means we'll never have a good team. We may achieve a good record on a soft schedule or vs. a string of really banged up teams ala '04. But otherwise, these guys will never have us competing on a proverbial level playing field.

But the bottom line on our draft, we got two guys capable of starting this year and lost more than that in numbers and far more in experience. So one or both of our "eggs" in the basket had better hatch into an eagle, or it's gonna get ugly really fast. Even if one or both do develop, we may hold sway as a well below average team and avoid challenging for league worst. That's a best case scenario.

And at this point, we don't have time to waste draft picks on players that won't contribute or turn out to be busts, especially in the top 3 rounds, because being in this Buffalo market, it's hard to attract big name talent as it is, so we have to get them in the draft. Especially with the numerous disgruntled vets that have left in the past, most of which because they're just sick and tired of being on a losing team. It's just mindboggling the amount of vets that the Bills have screwed over, and it's not like we have room to be picky, we're not like the Pats who can say, you know what, we can win without you...

Spikes, Fletch, Sam Adams, Milloy, Vincent, Pat Williams, Moulds, etc...

And the bad part is is that every player that leaves is pretty much saying that they're glad to get out and glad to be a part of a winning franchise for once (ala McGahee, TKO). And you can't say that you wouldnt' feel the same way if you were playing on the Bills team too. Think about it...you're at a job for 7 years and bustin your ass but it's apparent your managers have their heads up their asses, you'd want to get the hell out of there too!

[raphael120]

Nall is not being paid more than any good backup should be. Do they want him to replace an injuried Losman before they say he is not a waste? He's insurance. You have to pay for insurance. It's not a waste.

He's as unknown as Edwards is thought, so we're paying for a good backup that has just as many NFL starts as Edwards...NONE!

[henrybacker]

They don't have the first clue about the fundamentals of the game, truly. And that means we'll never have a good team.


-But the locker room will be great!

I don't have a problem with the Edwards pick, but I can't help but worry about how he will do as a WR, DT, or TE.

[DaBillzAhDaShiznit]

No matter how Edwards and wright turn out, I don't think they were the right picks at the right time for this franchise. We needed players(even bodies) elsewhere, and should have traded down if we couldn't find what we wanted value wise.

We won't have a logical, sane draft until Modrak is gone, so for now we grin and bear it, knowing that we throw away more draft picks than the average team.

[Bill Brasky]

Were the Edwards and Wright picks poor picks? I didnt like them on draft day because we had holes to fill and there were highly rated players (in my eyes, and maybe not the Bills) on the board still CB Micheal Coe who went to Indy in Round 5 is one Id point out. Just some names I liked better than Edwards and Wright in Rounds 3 and 4 are;

CB Daymeion Hughes-Indy
CB Tanard Jackson-TB
OLB Zak Deossie-NYG
OG Manuel Ramirez-Det
DT Marcus Thomas-DEN
OG Josh Beekman-CHI
You did more than the afternoon guys did in one post!

I listened to the segment the poster is eluding to. They *****ed about the Bills taking Edwards over, say, DL... problem is it was Mike Schoop. The guy *****es about EVERYTHING but rarely offers a solution. Then people try to call and maybe provide a rational argument and he either chimes in because he loves the sound of his own miserable voice, or cuts their call so he can always end up on top.

He needs to go hold hands with Jerry Sullivan and dissapear from Radio. They're perfect for each other. Together, they could do more damage and ooze more negative slime onto the NY Art Museum than Vigo The Carpathian could ever dream (hell yeah, that was a Ghostbuster II reference... I went there)

I welcome a differing viewpoint even if it is highly critical... but the guy is just an embryo that oozes nothing but miserable negativity and rarely a solution. And THAT my friends, is why I don't listen to the afternoons on GR... unless the other 5 stations are on commercial break.

[DraftBoy]

You did more than the afternoon guys did in one post!

I listened to the segment the poster is eluding to. They *****ed about the Bills taking Edwards over, say, DL... problem is it was Mike Schoop. The guy *****es about EVERYTHING but rarely offers a solution. Then people try to call and maybe provide a rational argument and he either chimes in because he loves the sound of his own miserable voice, or cuts their call so he can always end up on top.

He needs to go hold hands with Jerry Sullivan and dissapear from Radio. They're perfect for each other. Together, they could do more damage and ooze more negative slime onto the NY Art Museum than Vigo The Carpathian could ever dream (hell yeah, that was a Ghostbuster II reference... I went there)

I welcome a differing viewpoint even if it is highly critical... but the guy is just an embryo that oozes nothing but miserable negativity and rarely a solution. And THAT my friends, is why I don't listen to the afternoons on GR... unless the other 5 stations are on commercial break.


Preciate it man, I try and give you guys some good draft info, though Im no expert. I owe you some pos rep after I spread it around some.

[justasportsfan]

It's the second of two huge mistakes Marv has made on draft days as things pan out in my opinion.

Number one was obviously trading up for McCargo instead of Mangold..

For someone who loved our draft last year , now McCargo is a mistake? Looks like the winds changed and so did the opinion.

If we end up having a better O than the jets then Mangold will be a moot point.

WE'll revisit this thread in a years time and see what opinions have changed...AGAIN.

[henrybacker]

I'll trust in Marv until proven otherwise.

Can you please tell me how you felt about the contracts to Reed,Price, the O-line this off-season, trading for Walker and then not signing him? Why is it hard for people to say that Marv might have been a HOF coach but a lousy GM?

-Of course no reply

[henrybacker]

because there is no defense for some of Levy's assinine moves

[alohabillsfan]

Bump, good reading from all the experts! :yle:

[camelcowboy]

Bump, good reading from all the experts! :yle: I was wrong about the Edwards pick, i though they should have drafted a corner, but I was wrong.

[alohabillsfan]

I was wrong about the Edwards pick, i though they should have drafted a corner, but I was wrong.


I by no means meant anyone in paticular, but I applaud your admission, it just means that these things take time to figure out and you may still be right, no one knows, yet!

[raphael120]

Yeah we wont know the answer to this question a couple years from now, so no sense in commenting on who is right and wrong, it's all up in the air.