Pats sign DE Ty Warren to 5-Yr extension

[Ickybaluky]

From PFT (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm), reporting what Schefter said:


The Patriots have signed defensive end Ty Warren to a five-year, $36 million extension, which includes $17.5 million in guaranteed money, according to Adam Schefter of NFL Network.

Warren had two years remaining on his rookie deal, which was signed after the Pats made him a first-round pick in 2003. He was due to earn $1.075 million in base salary this year and $1.45 million in base salary in 2008.

Warren, along with Richard Seymour and Vince Wilfork, make up the the Pats front-3, which is the foundation of their defense. He has improved steadily since they drafted him (using a 1st round pick obtained from Buffalo for QB Drew Bledsoe) and was the Pats best DL last year (Seymour was playing with an elbow injury that required surgery in the offseason).

[The King]

Warren has been a quiet achiever for the pats d. He's similar to Schobel shows up does his job and has quietly become one of the best at his position.

[DraftBoy]

Patriots taking care of their own, Im not shocked smart move

[Bling]

Who cares?

[DraftBoy]

Who cares?


You should since Warren will now be terrorizing our offenses for the next 6 years

[camelcowboy]

You should since Warren will now be terrorizing our offenses for the next 6 years Terroizing or getting thrown around by peters. Warren is ok, but not worth the money the pats gave him.

[DraftBoy]

Terroizing or getting thrown around by peters. Warren is ok, but not worth the money the pats gave him.


I disagree he is much better than ok, and I believe its Seymour who matches up v. Peters no Warren.

[camelcowboy]

I disagree he is much better than ok, and I believe its Seymour who matches up v. Peters no Warren. Im just going by last year when peters played rt. He destroyed warren. Now can walker do it? Who knows? but a team like the patriots have to choose wisely who they extend. I just feel the money could be spent else where. Locking up samuel maybe?

[justasportsfan]

His stats are very comparable to Kelsay's with the advantage in coaching and suuport cast going to Warren. Does that mean he's been overpaid by the Pats too?

[DraftBoy]

His stats are very comparable to Kelsay's with the advantage in coaching and suuport cast going to Warren. Does that mean he's been overpaid by the Pats too?

4yrs @ 23-5.75/yr
6yrs @ 36 million-6/yr

Makes me sick

[justasportsfan]

4yrs @ 23-5.75/yr
6yrs @ 36 million-6/yr

Makes me sick

Warren's guaranteed 17.5

Kelsay's guaranteed is 13

looks to me that that's the going rate for average DE's.

I think people need to apologize to those who said we overpaid for Kelsay. Let's start with the one who called Marv clueless ........ Moran.

[DraftBoy]

Warren's guaranteed 17.5

Kelsay's guaranteed is 13

looks to me that that's the going rate for average DE's.

I think people need to apologize to those who said we overpaid for Kelsay. Let's start with the one who called Marv clueless ........ Moran.


No way is Kelsay worth close to what Warren is avg per year;

06 Season:
Warren-7.5 sacks, 56 tackles, 1sfty, 4 pd
Kelsay-5.5 sacks, 41 tackles, 4pd

Career:
Warren-153 tackles, 13.5 sacks, 8pd
Kelsay-100 tackles, 12.5 sacks, 8pd

I think Warren is worth the money while Kelsay is not, alot of Kelsay's tackles come from behind and we've been over these arguments before.

[Tatonka]

oh.. and you watch all of new englands games and know what direction warrens tackles come from..

:rofl:

how absurd.

[DraftBoy]

oh.. and you watch all of new englands games and know what direction warrens tackles come from..

:rofl:

how absurd.


Did I state the direction of Warren's tackles? Do you honestly think Kelsay is on par with Warren in terms of impact?

[BillsFever21]

Terroizing or getting thrown around by peters. Warren is ok, but not worth the money the pats gave him.

Kelsay got 6 million a year. Warren got 6 million a year. Sounds like a better deal for the Patriots then for us.

[BillsFever21]

Stats doesn't matter to them people unless it can offer some sort of help towards their arguement for some average Bills players.

Warren is almost two years yonger then Kelsay which makes a big difference in how they will perform by the end of the contract. Younger players usually get more then older players.


No way is Kelsay worth close to what Warren is avg per year;

06 Season:
Warren-7.5 sacks, 56 tackles, 1sfty, 4 pd
Kelsay-5.5 sacks, 41 tackles, 4pd

Career:
Warren-153 tackles, 13.5 sacks, 8pd
Kelsay-100 tackles, 12.5 sacks, 8pd

I think Warren is worth the money while Kelsay is not, alot of Kelsay's tackles come from behind and we've been over these arguments before.

[Ickybaluky]

Warren is a 3-4 DE, you can't compare him to Kelsay. It is interesting, though, that Warren has more career sacks that Kelsay despite being a 3-4 DE.

[Ickybaluky]

Im just going by last year when peters played rt. He destroyed warren. Now can walker do it? Who knows? but a team like the patriots have to choose wisely who they extend. I just feel the money could be spent else where. Locking up samuel maybe?

The Pats value their DL much more than CB.

Warren is one of their key building blocks up front, part of arguably the best DL in football. He dominated the LOS last year and was their best DL. You can't use stats to quatify a 3-4 DL, because their primary job is to control 2 gaps and allow the LB to make the tackles. Warren, Seymour and Wilfork are the best in the NFL at controlling the LOS, and it is the key to the Pats defense.

As for Peters dominating him, did he do so on the sack/safety Warren had that won the first game last year? If he dominated him so much, why did Buffalo only average 3.6 yds/rush in the 2 games against NE?

[The Spaz]

People give players too much respect simply because they play for NE. **** NE. :monkeyp: NE

[The Spaz]

As for Peters dominating him, did he do so on the sack/safety Warren had that won the first game last year? If he dominated him so much, why did Buffalo only average 3.6 yds/rush in the 2 games against NE?

Yep it was strictly Peters fault. :shakeno:

[justasportsfan]

No way is Kelsay worth close to what Warren is avg per year;

06 Season:
Warren-7.5 sacks, 56 tackles, 1sfty, 4 pd
Kelsay-5.5 sacks, 41 tackles, 4pd

Career:
Warren-153 tackles, 13.5 sacks, 8pd
Kelsay-100 tackles, 12.5 sacks, 8pd

I think Warren is worth the money while Kelsay is not, alot of Kelsay's tackles come from behind and we've been over these arguments before.
Of course I ca compare because Warren has had a better coach his entire career and better people surrounding him. That would always pad up your stats. No matter how you slice and dice things they are both average DE's.

YOu're also forgot to add Kelsay rotated with Denney.

Are you gonna tell me this guy is also better than Schobel because he's getting paid more. Whatever he and Kelsay got s the going rate. It's starting to look like we didn't overpay that badly.

[jdbillsfan]

I guess I feel better with Kelsay's contract after seeing what Warren got.

[Ickybaluky]

Of course I ca compare because Warren has had a better coach his entire career and better people surrounding him. That would always pad up your stats. No matter how you slice and dice things they are both average DE's.

Average? You didn't watch him last year, did you? He was far above average.

Warren played at a Pro Bowl-level last year. He was dominant. You can't judge a 3-4 DE by just stats, because so much of their responsibilities don't show up on the stat sheet.

Compare Warren to the other 3-4 DE in the NFL right now and he stacks right up. He stacks up favorably against Aaron Smith of the Steelers and Luis Castillo of the Chargers.

[jdbillsfan]

Average? You didn't watch him last year, did you? He was far above average.

Warren played at a Pro Bowl-level last year. He was dominant. You can't judge a 3-4 DE by just stats, because so much of their responsibilities don't show up on the stat sheet.

Compare Warren to the other 3-4 DE in the NFL right now and he stacks right up. He stacks up favorably against Aaron Smith of the Steelers and Luis Castillo of the Chargers.

Kelsay was dominant too. You can't judge a 4-3 DE just by stats either.

[justasportsfan]

Average? You didn't watch him last year, did you? He was far above average.

Warren played at a Pro Bowl-level last year. He was dominant. You can't judge a 3-4 DE by just stats, because so much of their responsibilities don't show up on the stat sheet.

Compare Warren to the other 3-4 DE in the NFL right now and he stacks right up. He stacks up favorably against Aaron Smith of the Steelers and Luis Castillo of the Chargers.


He's on a sb team with a coach who's put him in a position to make plays.He's also been in the same system since he was drafted. He's always gonna look better.

[Ickybaluky]

He's on a sb team with a coach who's put him in a position to make plays.He's also been in the same system since he was drafted. He's always gonna look better.

He also is a heck of a lot more talented. Kelsay can't hold his jock.

If Warren were on the Bills, he'd be their starting NT and the best DT on the team. He is a bull.

[Ickybaluky]

Kelsay was dominant too. You can't judge a 4-3 DE just by stats either.

In the Pats system, they two-gap. That means they hold up guys and plug up front, something Warren does very well.

In the Bills system, Kelsay is a one-gap defender. He is supposed to make plays, not free up others to make them. He is supposed to get sacks. Look at the Bears or Indy defense, where they play the same scheme, and the DE rush the QB. That is measurable.

[justasportsfan]

He also is a heck of a lot more talented. Kelsay can't hold his jock.

If Warren were on the Bills, he'd be their starting NT and the best DT on the team. He is a bull.

Point is , Kelsay is not as overpaid as some people here made him out to be.

[Mr. Pink]

We really need to stop defending scrubs and then comparing them to league wide known quantities.

Warren is unquestionably a hell of a lot better player than Kelsay.

Let me spell this out for you, since apparently most of you don't get the difference between the 3-4 defense and cover 2/4-3 scheme. In a 3-4 scheme the DLs main responsibility is clog up 2 gaps and allow the LBers to have free roam and make the plays. In the 4-3 or Cover 2 the DLs responsibility is only 1 gap and they're supposed to make plays themselves.

Notice the fact that a 3-4 defensive end has better stats than a 4-3/cover 2 guy's stats. That's proof enough there of who the better player truly is.

If you're gonna try and claim that Kelsay is paid on what is now average for the position than the Pats got an absolute steal with this one. Either way though you're admitting that the Pats FO is LIGHT YEARS ahead of ours.

They're paying a guy who has to fight through 2 players every down to make plays basically the same as we're paying a guy who has to fight through 1 player every down. Then the guy who fights through 2 players every down puts up better numbers anyways. And the sad part is some of you sit here and justify Kelsays contract by comparing it to this.

I'm really starting to wonder if some of you truly understand the game of football or if your straight out homerism has blinded you.

[justasportsfan]

Either way though you're admitting that the Pats FO is LIGHT YEARS ahead of ours. . YA think?



I'm really starting to wonder if some of you truly understand the game of football or if your straight out homerism has blinded you.
that's very Moran of you Funtimes.

[Mr. Pink]

YA think?


that's very Moran of you Funtimes.

It's very Moran of me to state an opinion that seems to be the major theme of the board around here?

Whoever we have is good. Whoever leaves must have sucked. Good players on other teams are automatically overrated. That's the general theme I have noticed.

[justasportsfan]

It's very Moran of me to state an opinion that seems to be the major theme of the board around here?. arrogance


Whoever we have is good. Whoever leaves must have sucked. Good players on other teams are automatically overrated. That's the general theme I have noticed.

we all notice different things. Didn't I just admit the Pats are lightyears ahead of our coaching staff? How is that being homeristic? You didn't notice that?

MY apologies NE39. Didn't mean to hijack your thread. Goodluck to your team except when playing the bills.

[patmoran2006]

Warren is being compared with Kelsay?


LMAO!!!!!!!!!

[Bulldog]

No way is Kelsay worth close to what Warren is avg per year;

06 Season:
Warren-7.5 sacks, 56 tackles, 1sfty, 4 pd
Kelsay-5.5 sacks, 41 tackles, 4pd

Career:
Warren-153 tackles, 13.5 sacks, 8pd
Kelsay-100 tackles, 12.5 sacks, 8pd

I think Warren is worth the money while Kelsay is not, alot of Kelsay's tackles come from behind and we've been over these arguments before.

Those numbers look pretty damn close to me. And I'm so sure you know where Warren's tackles are being made. Get over yourself already.

[patmoran2006]

I think Marv himself would take Warren in a heartbeat.

[patmoran2006]

Those numbers look pretty damn close to me. And I'm so sure you know where Warren's tackles are being made. Get over yourself already.

You cant just compare NUMBERS when you compare two players.. C'mon, I know that YOU know better than that.

If we go by "numbers" then Fletcher has been one of the best two LB's in the NFL

[Bulldog]

Average? You didn't watch him last year, did you? He was far above average.

Warren played at a Pro Bowl-level last year. He was dominant. You can't judge a 3-4 DE by just stats, because so much of their responsibilities don't show up on the stat sheet.

Compare Warren to the other 3-4 DE in the NFL right now and he stacks right up. He stacks up favorably against Aaron Smith of the Steelers and Luis Castillo of the Chargers.

I'd take Castillo over Warren in a heartbeat.

[Mr. Pink]

arrogance


we all notice different things.


My statement wasn't one of arrogance. If you took it that way, so be it.

And my point was directly illustrated in this thread, by you nontheless, you're comparing an actual good player who is league wide known for his skill to a situational scrub in Kelsay. Ty Warren is infinitely more important to the Pats defense than Kelsay is to ours. And from what you've stated in this thread, you obviously think otherwise.

We can plug in Average Joe to be a situational DE and not lose much of anything. The Pats plug in Average Joe to take Warren's responsibility and it's gonna be a big problem for them.

[Bulldog]

He also is a heck of a lot more talented. Kelsay can't hold his jock.

If Warren were on the Bills, he'd be their starting NT and the best DT on the team. He is a bull.

I think you're way overestimating Warren. He's a nice player. But he's not as good as you're trying to make him sound.

[justasportsfan]

In the Bills system, .
how long has this system been in place? How often is Kelsay on the field as compared to Warren? Let's revisit this thread after a year. Kelsays had only 1 year in this system and obviously not as good as a supporting cast.

[justasportsfan]

My statement wasn't one of arrogance. If you took it that way, so be it.

And my point was directly illustrated in this thread, by you nontheless, you're comparing an actual good player who is league wide known for his skill to a situational scrub in Kelsay. Ty Warren is infinitely more important to the Pats defense than Kelsay is to ours. And from what you've stated in this thread, you obviously think otherwise.

We can plug in Average Joe to be a situational DE and not lose much of anything. The Pats plug in Average Joe to take Warren's responsibility and it's gonna be a big problem for them.

That's the problem here, some people want to call our players scrubs and talk like they know better than our coaches and MArv yet these guys were were the worst in predicting last year.

Anyone else who'd rather give our FO the benefit of a doubt and argues with those who think we suck , are homers? Why? Because we think the bills are a .500 team and don't say the bills suck all day?

[Mr. Pink]

Like I said, we'll see after this year.

My bad. Forgot we can't look to recent history to judge anything. Thanks for reminding me.

[jdbillsfan]

We really need to stop defending scrubs and then comparing them to league wide known quantities.

Warren is unquestionably a hell of a lot better player than Kelsay.

Let me spell this out for you, since apparently most of you don't get the difference between the 3-4 defense and cover 2/4-3 scheme. In a 3-4 scheme the DLs main responsibility is clog up 2 gaps and allow the LBers to have free roam and make the plays. In the 4-3 or Cover 2 the DLs responsibility is only 1 gap and they're supposed to make plays themselves.

Notice the fact that a 3-4 defensive end has better stats than a 4-3/cover 2 guy's stats. That's proof enough there of who the better player truly is.

If you're gonna try and claim that Kelsay is paid on what is now average for the position than the Pats got an absolute steal with this one. Either way though you're admitting that the Pats FO is LIGHT YEARS ahead of ours.

They're paying a guy who has to fight through 2 players every down to make plays basically the same as we're paying a guy who has to fight through 1 player every down. Then the guy who fights through 2 players every down puts up better numbers anyways. And the sad part is some of you sit here and justify Kelsays contract by comparing it to this.

I'm really starting to wonder if some of you truly understand the game of football or if your straight out homerism has blinded you.


I think everyone knows the difference between a 3-4 end and 4-3 end. A 3-4 end frees up the LB, great.

I just down see Ty Warren as a player I worry about on the other side of the ball. If you do, great.

I have seen Tim Anderson get double teamed sometimes too, big deal.

He puts up better numbers because he is on a better defense with better players around him. Line him up with Tim Anderson and see how good his numbers are.

[jdbillsfan]

In the Pats system, they two-gap. That means they hold up guys and plug up front, something Warren does very well.

In the Bills system, Kelsay is a one-gap defender. He is supposed to make plays, not free up others to make them. He is supposed to get sacks. Look at the Bears or Indy defense, where they play the same scheme, and the DE rush the QB. That is measurable.

Kelsay also drops into coverage. Not everything 4-3 DE's do is measurable.

He also rotates with Denney, so he doesn't get as many sacks.

[justasportsfan]

My bad. Forgot we can't look to recent history to judge anything. Thanks for reminding me.
yes you can and what people forget is we came so close to making playoffs with a horrible sched.
That's more than what people expected but instead of giving them the benefit of the doubt, no our team sucks from top to bottom. :rolleyes:


You only see what you want to see from recent history. Only the negative part.

[patmoran2006]

Kelsay also drops into coverage. Not everything 4-3 DE's do is measurable.

He also rotates with Denney, so he doesn't get as many sacks.
He rotates with Denney, and the sack differential between the two is 0.5 sacks

So Kelsay is getting 6 million per why?

[Mr. Pink]

That's the problem here, some people want to call our players scrubs and talk like they know better than our coaches and MArv yet these guys were were the worst in predicting last year.

Anyone else who'd rather give our FO the benefit of a doubt and argues with those who think we suck , are homers? Why? Because we think the bills are a .500 team and don't say the bills suck all day?

Every team has weak links and scrubs. Doesn't matter who you are. Difference is most teams don't pay their weak links/scrubs good money, we do.

We have plenty of bright spots, Kelsay isn't one of them, which is the player that was introduced into this thread to compare to Ty Warren.

So take my basis on one player and turn that into me saying the whole team sucks if you want, even if that isn't the case.

Like I said though apparently NONE of us can take recent history of a player and apply it to our thinking or reasoning of how that player will perform in the future. Everyone apparently on our team the recent history slate is wiped clean, only if they've shown to be scrubs that is, and will suddenly "get it." But if you've been good in the recent past, well then we can certainly use that information to judge them in the future. It's hypocritical.

[jdbillsfan]

He rotates with Denney, and the sack differential between the two is 0.5 sacks

So Kelsay is getting 6 million per why?

Before this season Warren was getting about 2 sacks per season.

[justasportsfan]

Every team has weak links and scrubs. Doesn't matter who you are. Difference is most teams don't pay their weak links/scrubs good money, we do.

We have plenty of bright spots, Kelsay isn't one of them, which is the player that was introduced into this thread to compare to Ty Warren.

So take my basis on one player and turn that into me saying the whole team sucks if you want, even if that isn't the case.

Like I said though apparently NONE of us can take recent history of a player and apply it to our thinking or reasoning of how that player will perform in the future. Everyone apparently on our team the recent history slate is wiped clean, only if they've shown to be scrubs that is, and will suddenly "get it." But if you've been good in the recent past, well then we can certainly use that information to judge them in the future. It's hypocritical.


Like I said, I'd rather give the benefit of the doubt to the coaching staff who supassed expaectations ,over a bunch of MB posters who got it wrong starting with your friend Moran.


Before you misinterpret what I'm saying, I'm not saying Kelsay is great nor sucks. I'll decide that after this year.

Speaking about recent history...
Kelsay obviously played his best football playing in this system in his first year. I'm not surprised you didn't notice that. It's a positive thing. You only see what you want to see.

[Ickybaluky]

I'd take Castillo over Warren in a heartbeat.

Castillo is a better pure pass rusher (although the SD scheme is more aggressive rushing the passer with their DE than NE), but Warren is stronger at the point-of-attack and does a better job diagnosing plays, IMO. Warren is a bear to block. Castillo is a heck of a player as well, and I'd rate them pretty closely.

Warren played more than any other Pats DL last year, including Seymour (although Seymour was playing through a dislocated elbow). He was their best player up front.

[PECKERWOOD]

Ty Warren is an exceptional DE, average by no means.

[DraftBoy]

This thread is ridiculous it shows that we did over pay for Kelsay who isnt half the DL player Warren is. Their stats are close yes but Kelsay has been playing for two more years than Warren. Does Warren play on a better team? Yes, but that means there are better players going for the same tackles he is getting. Also like it has been said numerous time he fights through two people every play just to make a play. Warren is exceptional vs the run and the pass, Kelsay is only good v. the pass. NE got a steal for Warren and we way overpaid for Kelsay.

[Bulldog]

This thread is ridiculous.

I agree. This thread is rediculous. Ty warren is a good player. But he's not as great as some of you want to make him out to be. Christ, the way some of you gush about him makes my stomach turn. And just as there are homers on this board, there's also a certain group of people on this board that think the Pats can do no wrong and over state the talent on their roster. And by no means is that a slam against the Pats, I'm just not willing to declare every player that puts on a Pats uniform god. I'd like to see what he can do without Wilfork and Seymour next to him. And by no means am I saying that Kelsay is all that great either. I for one, thought that Kelsay started to show last year that he can be a player in this league. In order for him to take his play to another level, he needs to learn how to play that way on a consistant basis. As to whether or not he's overpaid, I'll reserve judgement until after this season.

[DraftBoy]

I agree. This thread is rediculous. Ty warren is a good player. But he's not as great as some of you want to make him out to be. Christ, the way some of you gush about him makes my stomach turn. And just as there are homers on this board, there's also a certain group of people on this board that think the Pats can do no wrong and over state the talent on their roster. And by no means is that a slam against the Pats, I'm just not willing to declare every player that puts on a Pats uniform god. I'd like to see what he can do without Wilfork and Seymour next to him. And by no means am I saying that Kelsay is all that great either. I for one, thought that Kelsay started to show last year that he can be a player in this league. In order for him to take his play to another level, he needs to learn how to play that way on a consistant basis. As to whether or not he's overpaid, I'll reserve judgement until after this season.


Atleast we can say this line of thinking is consistent with the common theme of the board our players are all the best and all other teams pro bowl players are really crap. Props for consistency.

[justasportsfan]

Atleast we can say this line of thinking is consistent with the common theme of the board our players are all the best and all other teams pro bowl players are really crap. Props for consistency.
If thats your interpretation of bulldogs post. So be it.

[Bulldog]

Atleast we can say this line of thinking is consistent with the common theme of the board our players are all the best and all other teams pro bowl players are really crap. Props for consistency.

Did you read the part where I said the Ty Warren is a GOOD player? If that's what you took out of my post then I should probably end this discussion right now.

[DraftBoy]

Did you read the part where I said the Ty Warren is a GOOD player? If that's what you took out of my post then I should probably end this discussion right now.


Feel free if want, but if you ask almost any non AFC East fan if Kelsay is even comparable to Ty Warren and Im willing to bet that some of them ask you who Kelsay even is. Warren is a proven Pro Bowl player and Kelsay is a proven pass rusher that many fans dont even know outside of Buffalo. To think he's worth comparable money is ludacris, as 3.5-4 million a year I can take that for Kelsay but at an avg of 5.75 a year Im sorry not when pro bowl players are only making 6 a year it makes no sense at all.

[DraftBoy]

If thats your interpretation of bulldogs post. So be it.


I was trying out some of your and Op's logic when you two argue, doesnt really fit to well, do ya think?

[Bulldog]

Feel free if want, but if you ask almost any non AFC East fan if Kelsay is even comparable to Ty Warren and Im willing to bet that some of them ask you who Kelsay even is. Warren is a proven Pro Bowl player and Kelsay is a proven pass rusher that many fans dont even know outside of Buffalo. To think he's worth comparable money is ludacris, as 3.5-4 million a year I can take that for Kelsay but at an avg of 5.75 a year Im sorry not when pro bowl players are only making 6 a year it makes no sense at all.

What year did Ty Warren go to the Pro Bowl?

[DraftBoy]

What year did Ty Warren go to the Pro Bowl?

Did he not go last season? If Im wrong on this Ill admit to it

[Bulldog]

I don't think he's ever gone.

[DraftBoy]

I don't think he's ever gone.


Fair enough, I was wrong about his pro bowl status

[camelcowboy]

The Pats value their DL much more than CB.

Warren is one of their key building blocks up front, part of arguably the best DL in football. He dominated the LOS last year and was their best DL. You can't use stats to quatify a 3-4 DL, because their primary job is to control 2 gaps and allow the LB to make the tackles. Warren, Seymour and Wilfork are the best in the NFL at controlling the LOS, and it is the key to the Pats defense.

As for Peters dominating him, did he do so on the sack/safety Warren had that won the first game last year? If he dominated him so much, why did Buffalo only average 3.6 yds/rush in the 2 games against NE?because while peters where destroying warren. Seymor, Wilfork were battling the likes of mike gandy and fowler. Pats win that overall battle hands on im just saying Warren is the least impressive of the three.

[patmoran2006]

he may be the least important of the three to them, but he's still a hell of a lot better than Kelsay and I dont think a GM in the NFL, including Levy would take Kelsay over him.

Speaking of Kelsay, when is the last time he's really made a big-time, SIGNIFICANT play? I seriously can't remember. I remember some sacks, but I dont remember many at all in critical times, and when is the last time on a 3rd-and-1 you saw Kelsay knock his man away and drill the running back at the line of scrimmage for a big stop?

[justasportsfan]

I was trying out some of your and Op's logic when you two argue, doesnt really fit to well, do ya think?
haha! No it doesn't .